Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, The list is long but here are some of them. The source is Rigveda. m. hilarity , rapture , excitement , inspiration , intoxication RV. &c. &c. any exhilarating or intoxicating drink , spirituous liquor , wine , Soma RV. &c. &c , Intoxication or Insanity personified (as a monster created by Cyavana) MBh. I trust this helps, Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > I agree with you. However, if it's no problem, I would be thankful > if you can give all the meanings of "mada" as given in monier- > williams, apte dictionaries etc? > > Did you face similar problems when you translated the > word "abhimaana" as pride/ego? > > regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > The pramana to ancient text is indeed difficult to give, as there > are no > > Sanskrit to English dictionaries that were written by the ancient > sages. > > > > You may, however, like to refer to Monier William dictionary that > > translates Sanskrit words to English as we are talking about > English > > words. I would, personally, refer to Sanskrit Kosha of Apte in > hard > > copy. Higher Sanskrit Grammar of M.R. Kale is another good source. > The > > meaning of Mada is made very clear there. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > Please translate the word "mada" also in all its nuances, and see > > > why they all can not be applied to Rahu. Why close your mind to > > > other meanings? > > > > > > I also notice that you have not provided any pramana that says > > > that "mada" means only lust/intoxication and not > pride/vanity/ego. I > > > am still waiting for it. > > > > > > >From what Saravali says, I perceive "ego" to be the basic > quality of > > > all those born. it perpetuates survival and rebirth. If you > > > disagree, can you provide a pramaana that says only a king can > have > > > ego and others can not. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > I was trying to translate Abhimana and not pride. And Pride > in a > > > King > > > > whom you have all along been trying to equate to a Divine > being (I > > > think > > > > amsha of Lord Vishnu or some such thing you said, while > arguing > > > why King > > > > is divine and by extension Surya; if memory serves me right), > may > > > not be > > > > a divine virtue but would certainly be tantamount to Ego. > > > > > > > > So please do not try to read something that is not there in > the > > > message. > > > > It is always difficult to translate Sanskrit words in English > > > language > > > > due to limitation of words with different flavors in English. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting to see that you do not think that pride > and ego > > > > > are not one and the same thing. Please refer to your own > message > > > at > > > > > > > > > > /message/11735 > </message/11735> > > > </message/11735 > </message/11735>> > > > > > </message/11735 > </message/11735> > > > </message/11735 > </message/11735>>> > > > > > > > > > > where you mentioned the following: > > > > > > > > > > "we find that Bhava Manjari does > > > > > attribute Abhimana (pride/ego) to Surya and so does Bhuvan > > > Deepak." > > > > > > > > > > How come pride/ego are synonymous in the case of Sun and > not so > > > in > > > > > the case of Rahu? Is this fair? And, is this necessary? > > > > > > > > > > Isn't "abhimaana" a much milder word than "mada"? The > > > > > word "abhimaana" might have positive connotations, but the > > > > > word "mada" has absolutely no positive connotations. > Pradeep may > > > > > not understand this but I am sure you do. > > > > > > > > > > Fair arguments never hurt me, sir, but this sort of > arguments, > > > > > especially coming from you, certainly confound me. > > > > > > > > > > Can you quote any pramaana that says "mada" means only lust > and > > > not > > > > > pride/ego/vanity etc? > > > > > > > > > > Regarding vidyaa/avidyaa and auspicious/inauspicious nature > of > > > > > Mother: > > > > > > > > > > Vidyaavidya swaroopini: 402nd name of Mother > > > > > > > > > > Vidyaamchaavidyaamchayasthadvedobhayam saH, avidyayaamritu > > > > > teerthva,vidyayaamritamasnutha, vidyaina charamavrittiroopam > > > > > jnaanam, avidyaa bhedabhraantiroopam jnaanam" > > > > > > > > > > Avidya results in mrityu while vidyaa results in > immortality and > > > > > moiksha. Vidyaa gives charama vrittiroopa jnaanam, while > avidya > > > > > gives bhedabhraanthiroopa jnaanam. > > > > > > > > > > So, which one is auspicious? The direction which gives > > > > > immortality/moksha or the direction which results in > > > > > differentiation, delusion and death? > > > > > > > > > > Further in the explanation of the name "BhadramoorthiH" it > is > > > stated > > > > > in Soubhagyabhaskaram that "brahmam tanmangalam". The true > > > > > auspiciousness is that after which no other inauspiciousness > > > occurs. > > > > > In a state which is dominated by desires, delusions etc > > > > > (mooladhara), this is impossible. This state of " > absoluteness > > > > > auspiciousness " is possible only at the state of Brahman > > > > > (sahasraara). > > > > > > > > > > "theshaamcha lokaapibahuvidhaaH > parasivaabhinnamahaashaktistu > > > > > sarvalokaatheethaa mahaakailaasaaparaajithaadi > padapratipaadye > > > > > sarvalokotthare tisthathi.anyaapaam sivashakteenaam > kathipayaanam > > > > > saattwikshareeraanyapi sattwaadhikyagunaantharaalpatwa > yukthaani > > > na > > > > > punaH shuddhasattwaani.. > > > > > > > > > > "The form where Mother is one with shiva is the > > > highest/mahaashakti > > > > > form. All shiva+shakti roopas are sattwa roopas, but those > lower > > > > > than this are a mixture of rajo and tamo gunas. > > > > > > > > > > I hope these suffice, or if you want, I can quote more. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > > > > intoxication > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana > which > > > > > means > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what > Asteya, > > > one > > > > > of the > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the > > > dormant > > > > > or > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be > > > misinterpreted > > > > > if > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any > purpose. I > > > would > > > > > not > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related > to > > > Maa. > > > > > I have > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to > support > > > your > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > > > > > awakened > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the > way > > > my > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I > shall > > > not > > > > > repeat > > > > > > it here. > > > > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to > quote > > > from > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. > > > Being > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to > translate > > > it > > > > > for you. > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your > > > contention. I > > > > > would > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I > can > > > > > improve > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your > propositions > > > with > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by > pointing > > > out > > > > > the > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu > > > combinations > > > > > in two > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have > > > done so > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > > > (greed), > > > > > moha > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk > > > with > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > correct > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > > > facets. As > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > > > towards > > > > > good > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > represented > > > > > by > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > > > power, is > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > correct/judicious > > > > > end > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very > very > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I > also > > > > > always > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > > > results, if > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer > to > > > all my > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or > losing an > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > exploration and > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see > no > > > > > purpose in > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > > operating at > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > young. So > > > > > please > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > > biography you > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > > > robust > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms > with > > > his > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I > was > > > > > expected > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a > Kuja > > > dosha > > > > > how > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not > bring our > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > > > analysis of > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > > > effects > > > > > of > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two > have > > > to be > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but > only > > > > > trying > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > perhaps > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > > perspective > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my > mail, I > > > did > > > > > not > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > > > gave him > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > > > beneficent as > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, > did its > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's > > > chart > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a > powerful Raj > > > > > yoga. At > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you > may > > > have > > > > > to > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. > Think > > > about > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before > declaring > > > that it > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > looking > > > at > > > > > the > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > > > away in > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 > (3:59:13 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > (4:48:54 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > (10:43:55 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 > (5:06:28 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > (2:29:24 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd > > > lord from > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > house > > > of > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd > lord > > > from > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations > are > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th > house, > > > can > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > influence > > > of > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > > > sure > > > > > even > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but > without > > > the > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > > wherever he > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > > > Mars in > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > > commented > > > > > on the > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > > > planets > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > > > previous > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great > people, > > > and > > > > > then > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > > > said. Did > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant > sarcoma of > > > left > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, > in > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > > following > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord > from > > > Moon > > > > > (AK) & > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is > > > with Sun > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > > > point to > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu > can > > > give > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at > all, > > > was > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 > (2:05:32 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 > (8:49:14 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > (12:04:47 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > (12:18:02 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa > of the > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their > mind > > > > > willed the > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > planet > > > in > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > > exaltation > > > > > in > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam > has > > > > > already > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > Mars/Venus in > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > through my > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he > was > > > > > editor > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > > > Yogas. > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > attributed to > > > it, > > > > > at > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they > would > > > all > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with > Pancha > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > (barring > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > > principles and > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > > reference to > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > > > respected > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > > > anything that > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > > > would be > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I > would of > > > > > course > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman > that > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > > > while weak > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree > about > > > strong > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to > what > > > all > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > > > strong > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that > their > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars > in > > > 5th > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) > and > > > Rahu > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > debilitated in > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > for "vipareetam > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > placement > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives > good > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is > because i > > > would > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > shubha > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > beneficial > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years > old, > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice > the > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > according > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, > even > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read > the > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > nature > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama > would > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > borne > > > in > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > house > > > (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, > the 10 > > > th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > death, > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the > Rudras > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in > south > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to > Surya > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and > not as > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of > the > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > > promotions > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or > so > > > as that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not > have > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > > > guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > > > after all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > instead > > > of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say > so > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a > papa > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > trikona > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed > to > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > > > home > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > popularly > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at > its > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent > water > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > > > giving the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water > bodies, so > > > why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------- > ---- > > > ----- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------- > ---- > > > ----- > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.12.2/441 - > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- > ---- > > > -- > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is > radically > > > > > easier > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- > -- > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > Release > > > Date: > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling > > > worldwide > > > > > with voicemail http://uk.messenger. > <http://uk.messenger.> > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>> > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.> > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > Date: > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling > worldwide > > > with voicemail http://uk.messenger. > <http://uk.messenger.> > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from > just 8p a photo http://uk.photos. <http://uk.photos.> > > > > > > > ------ > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 _________ All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, The dictionaries give these meaning of Aanana. n. the mouth the face R. Ragh. &c. entrance , door L. Do you find head mentioned here? If we want to go into why Ravana was called Dashanana and not Dashasheersha, the reason would consume much time especially if we go on from topic to topic, leaving the original thread and not adding to our knowledge in any manner. I think you are deviating from my original comment, to which different arguments have so far been presented by you and many others. If I remember right, I said that Kundalini is auspicious whether dormant or awakened and you and a few more thought otherwise. I have not seen anything in support of the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious, so far. Do you not think saying that Mother is gyani in dormant state and then saying she is inauspicious a bit misleading? If we accept that then Gyana will be inauspicious. All texts will be inauspicious and so will all the statues of the Gods. I do not think that is the right position per scriptures. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > When we refer to Ravana as "Dashaanana" does that mean he had only > 10 faces and not 10 heads? What about other synonyms for Ravana like > dashakantha, dasagreeva etc? Or when we talk of "sahasra seersha > purushaH " are we talking only of heads without faces? > > :--)) > > According to me, "triramani" suggests the Beautiful One who is > embodiment of /resides in/revels in....gunatraya, roopatraya, > avasthaatraya, maatritraya, bhoopuratraya, mandalatraya, konatraya, > rekhaatraya, mantratraya, kootatraya, triputi etc. > > I hope you realize that here we are talking of one who has > sthoola/sookshma/karana sareeras as well as trigunas. Please > contrast this to "sphutashivashaktisamaagama beejankuraroopiNi > paraashaktiH aNutharasookshmaanuttaravimarshalipi > lakshyavigrahaabhaathi"-which means that union of shiva-shakti is > like beejankura. At this juncture Paraashakti is so subtle as not to > be perceived at all. She's like akasha and exists only as > akshara/mantra swaroopini. Vagbhava koota! > > I refer you to the "oordhwamoolamadhaH shaakham ashwatham" example I > quoted earlier, in this respect. What's is seen at the lower level > is physical/gunamayi (sthoola/gross) manifestation, while at the > higher level it's the unseen roots/beeja (sookshma/subtle) > manifestation. Both belong to the same tree, but there is a > difference in manifestation. > > Mother is definitely "gyaanini" at all times. But at Mooladhara the > gyaana is only inert/potential. Suppose you have a great life- > changing book (kundalini) in your house (body), shut up in a room > (mooladhara). You do have the book, the potential to actuate > yourself, but unless you open the room, read the book, allow that > great wisdom to touch you and transform you, do you reap any benefit > from its presence? > > Now, can I please have your understanding > of "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä"? > > Perhaps we are unfairly imposing on others' time. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > I hope you do not want me to translate Aanana as head? I do not > see you > > disputing Kundalini in Mulaadhara being called Triramani, GYaanini > etc. > > though you think she is inauspicious there. May I know why? I hope > you > > do not dispute Lord Krishna's opinion on GYana. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > Thanks for sharing the nice shloka with us. I am sorry that I had > > > indeed overlooked responding to it. In this regard, I have > already > > > given my explanation of what's auspicious and what's not, based > on > > > Soubhagya Bhaskaram. > > > > > > Can you please explain to me how you understand the > > > phrase "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä". > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same > place, > > > and if > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments are > > > acceptable. > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support of your > argument > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I > sent > > > you. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head > come...in > > > the > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other koota > > > defined > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you imply > that > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology > mappings > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple > principle in > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless you are > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to > confuse > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended > that "bisa > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at > Mooladhara > > > > > also they would have put it immediately after "mooladharaika > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python at > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni > tattwatmika at > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only > from > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is ignited > only > > > when > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a group of > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the vacha. > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect the > > > throat > > > > > and not > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her > principal > > > abode > > > > > is > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if you > want > > > to > > > > > distort > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are > free to > > > do > > > > > so. I > > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja is > most > > > dear > > > > > to > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the > > > reference). > > > > > It > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini means > of > > > the > > > > > coiled > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly does > not > > > mean > > > > > what > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala Tantra. > Do > > > you > > > > > think > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > as > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as > vagbhava > > > beeja > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the > yamalas, i > > > am > > > > > sure > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava > > > koota...it's > > > > > the > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of > the > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave > > > tatratya > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is > the > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, > let me > > > quote > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. > maa > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the > > > kundalini). > > > > > don't > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. > It's > > > time > > > > > for > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <% > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > > > (greed), > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among > the > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > intoxicated/drunk > > > with > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > > > correct > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > > > facets. > > > > > As > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > > > towards > > > > > good > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? > The > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom > and > > > power, > > > > > is > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > correct/judicious > > > > > end > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very > > > very > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I > > > also > > > > > always > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > > > results, > > > > > if > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can > refer > > > to all > > > > > my > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or > losing > > > an > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > exploration > > > and > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I > see no > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > > operating at > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > young. > > > So > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > > biography > > > > > you > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of > apparent > > > robust > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms > > > with his > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know > I > > > was > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a > Kuja > > > dosha > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not > bring > > > our > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > > > analysis > > > > > of > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on > the > > > > > effects > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two > have > > > to be > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but > > > only > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > perhaps > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my > mail, > > > I did > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that > it > > > gave > > > > > him > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, > did > > > its > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > Vivekananda's > > > chart > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a > powerful > > > Raj > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, > you may > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. > Think > > > > > about > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before > declaring > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > > > looking at > > > > > the > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he > passed > > > away > > > > > in > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 > (3:59:13 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 > (5:06:28 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the > 2nd > > > lord > > > > > from > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > > > house of > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd > lord > > > from > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > significations > > > are > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th > house, > > > can > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > > > influence of > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I > am > > > sure > > > > > even > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but > > > without the > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > > wherever > > > > > he > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the > strong > > > Mars > > > > > in > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > > commented > > > > > on > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that > the > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > > > previous > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great > people, > > > and > > > > > then > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > > > said. > > > > > Did > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant > sarcoma > > > of > > > > > left > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his > chart, in > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > > following > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord > from > > > Moon > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu > is > > > with > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of > which > > > point > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and > ketu > > > can > > > > > give > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at > > > all, was > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 > (2:05:32 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 > (8:49:14 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > (12:47:04 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa > of > > > the > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their > mind > > > > > willed > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my > next > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane > smritam has > > > > > already > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > Mars/Venus > > > in > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > through > > > my > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that > he > > > was > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving > P.M. > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > attributed > > > to > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they > would > > > all > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with > Pancha > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > > > (barring > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > > principles > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > > reference > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > > > respected > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > > > anything > > > > > that > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, > it > > > would > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I > would > > > of > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. > Raman > > > that > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > > > while > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree > about > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to > > > what > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find > that > > > strong > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that > their > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and > mars > > > in 5th > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn > (9H) > > > and > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > debilitated > > > > > in > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > for "vipareetam > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > > > placement in > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives > good > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is > because i > > > > > would > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > > > shubha > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice > the > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is > giving > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give > bad > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > wouldn't > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust > and > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala > is > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to > read the > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > > > nature > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama > would > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > > > borne in > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > Duryodhana, > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, > the > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > > > death, > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the > Rudras > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and > not > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results > of > > > the > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > > promotions > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 > or so > > > as > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and > Rahu > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > > > guessed > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > > > after > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > instead > > > of > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I > say so > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a > papa > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > trikona > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though > claimed > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and > its > > > home > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > > > popularly > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent > water > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great > and i > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative > writing, > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun > were > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being > in > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > > > giving > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water > bodies, > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best > spam > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------- > ---- > > > ----- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------- > ---- > > > ----- > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is > > > radically > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- > -- > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > Release > > > Date: > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB > > > storage > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > Date: > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the > all > > > new Security Centre. http://uk.security. > <http://uk.security.> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > ________ > > All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > > > ------ > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 _________ Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Mail. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Dear Prabodh, I think there is some confusion here. Do you mean that one who is a millionaire telling that from roof tops to poor people is speaking the truth or an example of ego at its worst? If you think this is only speaking the truth, then we look at what is ego from different perspectives. About Krishna and Gita one must understand that unlike what is assumed by many, one who reveals the knowledge to Arjuna is not Krishna of yadu vamsha but the Par Brahman. That is why he refers to himself as Krishna amongst Vrishni Vanshias. He does not go on announcing his greatness at the beginning. He, first, reveals very deep knowledge to Arjuna. You then observe Arjuna questioning Krishna and cross questioning him, unlike what we are, perhaps, supposed to do with the pronouncements of Lord Rama and King Ashwapati. You then see Lord Krishna telling Arjuna about the importance of knowledge (of the lord within) and that this way he can get emancipation. The we see the Lord explaining what is the essence of his being in impersonal terms. He talks about the Param Purusha indicating what he is referring to earlier and later at shloka 10 Adhyaaya 8. Arjuna again requests Lord Krishna about his different rupas in shloka 18 Adhyaaya 10, saying he is desirous of hearing more about the Lord's different rupas. after And he is saying what he says in response to a query from Arjuna about knowing him in his entirety only for imparting knowledge to Arjuna. If you read Gita in depth, you will find him equating himself with gambling also. That is not egoistic or what can be called bragging in modern terms. I think it is better if we differentiate between what are the Vedic Laws and what are perceived to be Vedic laws. That is why I quoted from Manusmriti. We can not selectively take examples of Kings from Vedic times and claim them to be divine and without blemish and thus Vedas telling that King can not have ego. We have to take all the Kings of that era, if we want to convince others that in Vedic times the word King meant one who is pious and none of his actions can be termed as on account of ego. BY the way in both the speeches the Kings are not talking about taking care of welfare of their subjects but how they have kept the Kingdom either free of crimes or how they will give everything for the sake of the Subjects. I know this may appear like hairsplitting, but you talk of Vedic injunction being the King taking care of welfare of his subjects and therefore King means pious or non egoist or whatever way you want to put it. And the speeches do not reflect that intent. Take care, Chandrashekhar. Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namste > > > If a King proclaiming his virtues himself is not ego then pray what > is? > > It is an accepted practice that one does not broadcast one's virtue > > oneself. > > King proclaiming his virtues himself can not be an example of Ego > specially it the king is speaking truth. At most it can be treated as > expression of Pride but certainly not Ego. In this way even Krishna > will be clubed as Egoist as he has proclaim so many things about > himself in Geeta. > > > I am sure you recognize names of many Vedic Kings there. Do you > think > > Parashara was unaware of this and so he must have meant what you > imply? > > > > I do but the point is not that. As I said earlier that scriptures say > that King should take Pride in welfare of his subjects and should not > considered as absolute power. Some kings at vedic times have acted > otherwise but that is not the point. Moreover there is no point in > making conjuctures as what parashara thought and whether he was aware > of the Kings not following scriptures,before writting Jyotish > Grantha. In my humble opinion we can only comment on meanings of > Vedic terms like 'King' in vedic context. My example of rama was to > highlight the fact that there were kings who were ready to do > anything for the welfare of their subjects. King's dharma was that > only and Rama followed it. > > WIll write about Rahu again once this is resoived! > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > Prabodh Vekhande > Jai Jai Shankar > Har Har Shankar > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Prabodh, > > > > I can understand why you find it difficult to see ego in the > speeches > > that you quoted. That precisely is why I said that it is better not > to > > bring personalities in discussions on astrology, especially those > whom > > one may revere. It is not easy to be dispassionate about their > actions > > or speech. > > > > If a King proclaiming his virtues himself is not ego then pray what > is? > > It is an accepted practice that one does not broadcast one's virtue > > oneself. I think you will understand the source of the following. > > @tavan! @v pué;ae yt! £ jaya£ATma àja£#it h, ivàa> àa÷s! twa c£@tdœ > yae > > -taR sa Sm&t£A¼na. 9£45 > > 9.45. He only is a perfect man who consists (of three persons > united), > > his wife, himself, and his offspring; thus (says the Veda), and > > (learned) Brahmanas propound this (maxim) likewise, 'The husband is > > declared to be one with the wife.' > > > > And though as you have quoted Lord Rama saying " I will not mind > any > > affliction in abandoning my wife for the good of my subjects". and > > called it Vedic Dharma. Let me quote Manusmriti on when a King > should > > give up his wife. > > "Aapdw¡ xn< r]edœ daran! r]edœ xnErœ Aip, AaTman< stt< r]edœ darErœ > Aip > > xnErœ Aip." 7£213 > > 7.213. > > For times of need let him preserve his wealth; at the expense of > his > > wealth let him preserve his wife; let him at all events preserve > himself > > even by (giving up) his wife and his wealth. > > > > So do you think that what was said was more of a boast or otherwise? > > > > About the conduct of Kings Manusmriti says: > > sMmanadœ äaü[ae inTym! %iÖjet iv;adœ #v, Am&tSy£#v c£Aka'œ]edœ > AvmanSy > > svRda. 2£162 > > > > venae ivnòae Aivnyat! £ n÷;z! c£@v paiwRv>, suda> pEjvnz! c£@v > sumuoae > > inimrœ @v c. 7£41 > > 7.41. > > Through a want of humility Vena perished, likewise king Nahusha, > Sudas, > > the son of Pigavana, Sumukha, and Nemi. > > > > I am sure you recognize names of many Vedic Kings there. Do you > think > > Parashara was unaware of this and so he must have meant what you > imply? > > > > Think again. It is easy to swear by one sage and think his words > meant > > what we want them to mean and it may be entirely different what he > in > > fact meant to convey. > > > > Endless debate on what is Mada is possible but Koshas, Higher > Sanskrit > > Grammar by M.R. Bhat and other sources do indicate that Mada is > > primarily intoxication state, the reasons being variable. I think > it is > > well to remember that rahu delivers results based on the graha > conjunct > > or the lord of the Bhava occupied or 7th from itself and even those > of > > planets aspecting it ( by extension). No wonder that rahu occupying > > house of Mars in 5th can cause problems in begetting progeny. > > > > If as you think Rahu who is Mada and that it means Pride then why > Rahu > > in 5th should create problems in the house of progeny. It should > give > > more progeny and with ease as the indications will be that of the > jataka > > having pride on account of multiple progeny. Though for the life of > me I > > do not understand why the combination given by you indicates that > rahu > > is Pride. And that, that is the reason for the person not having > Progeny > > or having difficulty in getting progeny. > > > > I do not find again, that Parashara is referring to Rahu only being > in > > the 5th or as you say Rahu alone in the example given by you. He > on the > > other hand does say that rahu has to be in a) 5th house and B) in > the > > rasi of Mars or aspected by Mars, for problems in begetting > progeny. Or > > have I not been able to understand what you are diriving at when > you say > > Parashara giving independent indications of rahu in the example > given? > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar Ji namste > > > > > > >Most of the > > > > speeches that you quote, if read with due detachment and > ignoring > > > the > > > > personalities making them, would sound most egoist speeches to > all > > > and > > > > sundry. I know saying this would raise > > > > tempers on the list but truth must prevail. > > > > > > Exactly. Truth must prevail. Why a passionate speech by a vedic > king > > > should be treated as expression of Ego? If this is ego then every > > > thing by a king towards his subjects will be ego. > > > Ofcourse, I am nobody to object your views about that but it > would be > > > interesting to find out what excatly you considered as egoist in > > > those speeches. > > > > > > > But one can go on arguing on this aspect to no end and > bringing in > > > the > > > > ideal king as an example of King and conjecturing the Parashara > > > meant > > > > that King, while good for argument's sake may not be the right > way > > > to > > > > look at astrological principles. > > > > > > I wanted to say that in a Vedic context, King means who takes > pride > > > in the welfare of the subjects and will not have absolute power > like > > > in western philosophy. Such vedic king may be ideal or may not be > > > ideal but what vedic scriptures say must be kept in mind. If we > > > believe that Parashara is vedic Jyotish Pravartak then there is no > > > question about what he had in mind when he said about Surya being > > > King. Terms which are Vedic should be treated on the Vedic > context. > > > It does not matter as to how many kings were cruel towards > subjects > > > in Vedic times what matters is that how scriptures describe the > > > king.What are his duties and what should be his authority and how > he > > > should excercise it? That is why it essential to get in to what > Vedas > > > and Manu says about king's duties. If you feel that I am > > > unnecessarily getting this point, I respectfully request you to > > > please think on this. > > > > > > > Do you think Mada does not mean intoxication or state of > > > intoxication in > > > > Sanskrit? > > > > > > Mada does mean Intoxication but point is that it as well means > Pride! > > > Why to forget this? If Kalyan Verma says that Rahu is associated > with > > > Mada then all meanings of Mada will be associated with Rahu. That > > > will include being intoxicated and as well being into state of > Pride. > > > Since rahu as well is understood as 'limitless' so naturally pride > > > will be limitless and hence will be Ego. > > > > > > There is no doubt that Rahu gives the results like Shani or the > lord > > > of the house occupied by him but this possibly we apply more, > when we > > > are into timing of events. Otherwise why Parashara has said few > > > things only related to Rahu? Like he says that 5th house Rahu when > > > aspected by Mars or in the houses of Mars then the native will > have > > > problems in the progeny. He could have simply said in one line > that > > > Rahu should be Always treated as lord of the house occupied by > him or > > > like Shani and that would have ended the references of Rahu. But > > > parashara clearly gives the independent references of Rahu. > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande > > > Jai Jai Shankar > > > Har Har Shankar > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Prabodh, > > > > > > > > You are not wrong when you say that "So in a Vedic Jyotish way > the > > > Sun > > > > in strength will have PRIDE in being ideal king' for his > subjects > > > (other > > > > Grahas)." But if the King is doing what is only his duty as > per the > > > > Vedic Dharma, then pride in such context will be Ego. Most of > the > > > > speeches that you quote, if read with due detachment and > ignoring > > > the > > > > personalities making them, would sound most egoist speeches to > all > > > and > > > > sundry. I know saying this would raise > > > > tempers on the list but truth must prevail. > > > > > > > > But one can go on arguing on this aspect to no end and > bringing in > > > the > > > > ideal king as an example of King and conjecturing the Parashara > > > meant > > > > that King, while good for argument's sake may not be the right > way > > > to > > > > look at astrological principles. The first pitfall would be > that > > > though > > > > it is fashionable these days to say that all Kings of Vedic > times > > > acted > > > > as they should the fact remains that Puranas and Vedas are > replete > > > with > > > > stories of Kings who were very cruel t their subjects and > harassed > > > those > > > > performing vedic Rituals. When this is pointed out tempers > flare > > > which > > > > is a sure beginning of a rational discussion on the principles > of > > > > astrology going awry. > > > > > > > > That is why it is better to steer clear of the scriptures when > > > > discussing astrology, specially on a public list, as the > scriptures > > > are > > > > subject to different interpretations. > > > > > > > > Do you think Mada does not mean intoxication or state of > > > intoxication in > > > > Sanskrit? I am sure that Unmaada is one of the five arrows of > > > Madana. > > > > And that is Mada represented by Rahu. That is what flows > through > > > the > > > > temporal glands of a bull elephant and then the bull elephant > > > becomes > > > > uncontrollable like being intoxicated. > > > > > > > > Again if you happen to refer to kosha you will find synonyms > for > > > the > > > > five types of pride to be Garva, Abhimaana, Ahankara, Maana > etc. > > > While > > > > in English language Pride has certain connotation, to find > exact > > > > synonyms to Sanskrit words is always difficult. > > > > > > > > Letting apart these discussions which will more often mislead > than > > > solve > > > > anything, let us at least agree that the sage does say that > Rahu > > > and > > > > Ketu behave as the lords of the house occupied by them or the > lord > > > of a > > > > house that they conjoin. > > > > > > > > If we are agreed on this then think why should Rahu, or Ketu > for > > > that > > > > matter, who can not deliver own results but has to depend on > other > > > > planets to express itself would, by itself and devoid of other > > > graha > > > > combination; be endowed with the quality of Ego by the writer. > More > > > so > > > > why when Rahu when alone is said to give results of Shani > (Manda > > > Sama > > > > Rahu..) as Shani is certainly not connected with ego by any > stretch > > > of > > > > imagination. > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namste > > > > > > > > > > It was indeed a great plesure to read your mails regarding > > > > > interpretations of the astrological text and more specially > how > > > > > Sanskrit language words can mislead at times. Now I have some > > > doubts. > > > > > > > > > > I think Pride means Self-respect and Ego means Inflated or > False > > > > > Pride. Parashara has attributed the Sun to being Raja or > King. In > > > the > > > > > vedic philosophy we see that Raja was suppose to take care > of the > > > > > welfare of his subjects. In the Chandogya Upanishad the king > > > > > Ashvapati describes his kingdom and his subjects as: "In my > > > kingdom > > > > > there is no thief,no coward,nor amiser,no drunked,nor is > there one > > > > > who has not taken the vow of worship of the'Fire', no idots, > nor > > > men > > > > > of loose character.Where could therefore be here women > without > > > > > morals?"(Chandogya 5-11). We as well see similar references > in > > > > > Ramayana regarding RamaRajya. Rama says: I will forsake > > > everything, > > > > > affection,compassion,happiness,even my beloved wife Janaki, > for > > > the > > > > > sake of the welfare of my subjects. I will not mind any > > > affliction in > > > > > abondoning my wife for the good of my subjects". We find > many such > > > > > references in RigVeda and Atherva veda as well. The great > epic of > > > > > VedaVyasa as well gives similar attributes to King.Such was > the > > > > > concept of the ideal of the institution of kingship, which > every > > > > > Vedic king took PRIDE in realising. > > > > > > > > > > In the pasasge of Time there came the western counterpart for > > > Vedic > > > > > Kings. In the west the mediaeval thinkers invested divine > > > inheritance > > > > > on the king who was considered to be the representative of > God. > > > The > > > > > king having received his authority to rule by divine right > was not > > > > > answerable to the people and therefore was an absolute in > his own > > > > > right.The people had no right to rebel against the king or > demand > > > his > > > > > dethronement. The predominant thought behind that concept > was to > > > > > bestow sovereign and absolute powers on the king. This > naturally > > > made > > > > > Kings to have 'inflated pride' or EGO. This western mediaeval > > > concept > > > > > of king had great influence in Mediaeval indian kings as > well. > > > > > > > > > > In Bharat, however, political thinkers never advocated or > offered > > > any > > > > > abolute power and authority to the king. Kingship was always > > > regared > > > > > as subservient to the will and dependent upon the sanction > of the > > > > > people and was alwyas answerable to them. So there was no > concept > > > > > of 'Inflated or False Pride' in the Vedic King. The king > being > > > fully > > > > > aware that all his authority and power were derived from his > > > > > subjects would try to look to their welfare. > > > > > > > > > > So in a Vedic Jyotish way the Sun in strength will have > PRIDE in > > > > > being ideal 'king' for his subjects(other Grahas). Same, if > seen > > > in > > > > > Western way can mean the Sun will have EGO. > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, we see that Western(foreign) cocept of Absolute > power > > > with > > > > > the King is exactly opposite that of Vedic concept of King. > So in > > > a > > > > > vedic way of thinking what is wrong in attributting Rahu to > > > foreign > > > > > concept of inflated & false Pride or EGO.? > > > > > > > > > > Finally, Mada does mean Pride in sanskrit. When attributed to > > > Rahu, > > > > > will naturally have the element of falsehood/deceit > associated > > > with > > > > > pride and hence may lead to EGO. Am I wrong? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > > > > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande > > > > > Jai Jai Shankar > > > > > Har Har Shankar > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > > > > intoxication > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana > which > > > > > means > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what > Asteya, > > > one of > > > > > the > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the > > > dormant or > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be > > > misinterpreted > > > > > if > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. > I > > > would > > > > > not > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related > to > > > Maa. I > > > > > have > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to > support > > > your > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > > > awakened > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the > way > > > my > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I > shall > > > not > > > > > repeat > > > > > > it here. > > > > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to > quote > > > from > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. > > > Being > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to > translate > > > it for > > > > > you. > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your > contention. > > > I > > > > > would > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I > can > > > > > improve > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your > propositions > > > with > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by > pointing > > > out > > > > > the > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu > > > combinations in > > > > > two > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have > done > > > so > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > > > (greed), > > > > > moha > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > (jealousy) > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk > with > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > correct > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > > > facets. As > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > > > towards good > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > represented by > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > > > power, is > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > correct/judicious end > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very > very > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I > also > > > always > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > > > results, if > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer > to > > > all my > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing > an > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration > and > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > > purpose > > > > > in > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > operating > > > at > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > young. So > > > > > please > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > > biography you > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > > > robust > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms > with > > > his > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I > was > > > > > expected > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja > > > dosha > > > > > how > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring > our > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > > > analysis of > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > > > effects > > > > > of > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two > have to > > > be > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but > only > > > trying > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > perhaps > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > > perspective > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my > mail, I > > > did > > > > > not > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > > > gave him > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > beneficent > > > > > as > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did > its > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's > chart > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful > Raj > > > > > yoga. At > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you > may > > > have to > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. > Think > > > about > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring > > > that it > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > looking > > > at the > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > > > away in > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 > (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > (4:48:54 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > (10:43:55 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 > (5:06:28 am) > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > (2:29:24 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd > lord > > > from > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > house of > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord > > > from > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations > are > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, > > > can give > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > influence of > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > > > sure even > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but > without > > > the > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > > wherever he > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > > > Mars in > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > > commented on > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > > > planets > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > previous > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, > > > and then > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > said. > > > Did > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma > of > > > left > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > > following dasa > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from > > > Moon > > > > > (AK) & > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is > with > > > Sun > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > > > point to > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu > can > > > give > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at > all, > > > was > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 > (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 > (8:49:14 am) > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > (12:04:47 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > (12:18:02 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > (11:08:26 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of > the > > > graha > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their > mind > > > willed > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > planet in > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > > exaltation > > > > > in > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam > has > > > already > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > Mars/Venus in > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > through my > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he > was > > > editor > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > > > Yogas. > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed > to > > > it, at > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would > > > all give > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with > Pancha > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > (barring > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > principles > > > and > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > > reference to > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > > > respected > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > anything > > > that > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > > > would be > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I > would of > > > > > course > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman > that > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > while > > > weak > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > > > strong > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to > what > > > all > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > > > strong > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that > their > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars > in > > > 5th > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) > and > > > Rahu > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > debilitated in > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > for "vipareetam > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > placement > > > in the > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives > good > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because > i > > > would > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > shubha > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years > old, > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > according > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read > the > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > nature > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > borne > > > in mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the > 10 > > > th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > death, > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in > south > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > digbala > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to > Surya > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of > the > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > > promotions and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or > so as > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not > have > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > > > guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > after > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > instead of > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say > so but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > trikona and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > > > home that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > popularly > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at > its > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent > water > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > giving > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, > so > > > why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ > ---- > > > ----- > > > > > --- > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- > ---- > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- > ---- > > > - > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is > radically > > > > > easier > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > - > > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > > > Date: > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling > worldwide > > > > > with voicemail http://uk.messenger. > <http://uk.messenger.> > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>> > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.> > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > Date: > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its > > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > ________ > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is radically easier > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > > > ------ > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 _________ The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, Perhaps you have not read/understood the sanskrit properly. There are references to kundalini being dormant, kundalini being activated kundalini becoming auspicious. As far as my limited knowledge goes, kulakunda is "mooladhara" and I am sure you can clearly see phrase in the quotation. The reference is taken originally from Sanatkumaara tantra, expanded in soubhagya bhaskaram and forms part of vishesha vyaakhya on the phrase "bisa tantu taneeyasee". If you want the entire vyaakhya, i have no objection in giving it. Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > Are you not deviating from the original thread? Where is the reference > to the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious? And may I know as to why > the shloka describing the state of Kundalini at Muladhara is excluded? I > am sure you know that Kundalini does not arise from Swadhishthana. Would > you bekind enough to quote the source sothat I could try to locate the > complete verse myself? > > Chandrashekhar. > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > "agnim swaadhistaanagataagnitejomayeem kundalineemichhdhwam. > > icchaadandenaahatyothapayadhwam....athaeva rodanaavasthasaahityaat. > > kulakundaadutthaapanasyotpatti roopatwaaccha sadya utpannaa > > kumaareetyuchyathe. yoshittaruNee kaarunyalakshaNaa > > sooryeNaahtaaduparibhaage saahityaatpativrataa. patim > > brahmarandhrastham kaameshwaram vratayati bhunkte payovratam > > braahmaNasyethi prayogaaccha evam koumaarataaruNya > > sambhogairarishtam shubham peeyusha varshaNaroopam anyadapi > > yatkinchitsaakriyathe karoti tatsarvam agnisswaadhisthaanagatho > > anuvedhati saadhayathi. agnijwalanenaiva chandramandalam dravateethi > > bhavaH" > > > > I am sure you can translate this and understand that Kundalini has > > the ability to do "shubham" only when it matures (utpatti avastha) > > and unites with Shiva causing the amrita varsham, through the medium > > of agni. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from scriptures > > that you > > > have that state that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious. That will > > help > > > enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja and other Kootas. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > Please tell me in the body divisions given according to kootas, > > is > > > > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? Let's get this > > straight > > > > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. Please do not > > worry > > > > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, and can provide > > > > them by the ton:--)) > > > > > > > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean the portion upto > > neck > > > > or the portion upto forehead? > > > > > > > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same > > place, > > > > and if > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments are > > > > acceptable. > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support of your > > argument > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I > > sent > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head > > come...in > > > > the > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other koota > > > > defined > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you imply > > that > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology > > mappings > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple > > principle in > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless you are > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to > > confuse > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended > > that "bisa > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at > > Mooladhara > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately after "mooladharaika > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python at > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only > > from > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is ignited > > only > > > > when > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a group of > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the vacha. > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect the > > > > throat > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her > > principal > > > > abode > > > > > > is > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if you > > want > > > > to > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are > > free to > > > > do > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja is > > most > > > > dear > > > > > > to > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the > > > > reference). > > > > > > It > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini means > > of > > > > the > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly does > > not > > > > mean > > > > > > what > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala Tantra. > > Do > > > > you > > > > > > think > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as > > vagbhava > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the > > yamalas, i > > > > am > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of > > the > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is > > the > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, > > let me > > > > quote > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. > > maa > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. > > It's > > > > time > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <% > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among > > the > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > with > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > > > > facets. > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > > > > towards > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? > > The > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom > > and > > > > power, > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very > > > > very > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I > > > > also > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > > > > results, > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can > > refer > > > > to all > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or > > losing > > > > an > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > > exploration > > > > and > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I > > see no > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > > young. > > > > So > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > > > biography > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of > > apparent > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know > > I > > > > was > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a > > Kuja > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not > > bring > > > > our > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > > > > analysis > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on > > the > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two > > have > > > > to be > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but > > > > only > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > > perhaps > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my > > mail, > > > > I did > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that > > it > > > > gave > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, > > did > > > > its > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > > Vivekananda's > > > > chart > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a > > powerful > > > > Raj > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, > > you may > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. > > Think > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before > > declaring > > > > that > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > > > > looking at > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he > > passed > > > > away > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 > > (3:59:13 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 > > (5:06:28 > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the > > 2nd > > > > lord > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > > > > house of > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd > > lord > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > > significations > > > > are > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th > > house, > > > > can > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I > > am > > > > sure > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--)) but > > > > without the > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > > > wherever > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the > > strong > > > > Mars > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > > > commented > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that > > the > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > > > > previous > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great > > people, > > > > and > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > > > > said. > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant > > sarcoma > > > > of > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > > > following > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord > > from > > > > Moon > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu > > is > > > > with > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of > > which > > > > point > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and > > ketu > > > > can > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at > > > > all, was > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 > > (2:05:32 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 > > (8:49:14 > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > (12:47:04 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa > > of > > > > the > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their > > mind > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my > > next > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane > > smritam has > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > > Mars/Venus > > > > in > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > > through > > > > my > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that > > he > > > > was > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving > > P.M. > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > > attributed > > > > to > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they > > would > > > > all > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > > > principles > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > > > reference > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > > > > anything > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, > > it > > > > would > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I > > would > > > > of > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. > > Raman > > > > that > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > > > > while > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree > > about > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to > > > > what > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find > > that > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that > > their > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and > > mars > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn > > (9H) > > > > and > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > > debilitated > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > > > > placement in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives > > good > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is > > because i > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > > > > shubha > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice > > the > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is > > giving > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give > > bad > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > > wouldn't > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust > > and > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala > > is > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to > > read the > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > > > > nature > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama > > would > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > > > > borne in > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > > Duryodhana, > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, > > the > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > > > > death, > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the > > Rudras > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and > > not > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results > > of > > > > the > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > > > promotions > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 > > or so > > > > as > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and > > Rahu > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > > > > guessed > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > > > > after > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > > instead > > > > of > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I > > say so > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a > > papa > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > > trikona > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though > > claimed > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and > > its > > > > home > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > > > > popularly > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent > > water > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great > > and i > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative > > writing, > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun > > were > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being > > in > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > > > > giving > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water > > bodies, > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best > > spam > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- ---- > > ---- > > > > ----- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of- date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------- ---- > > ---- > > > > ----- > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is > > > > radically > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- ---- > > -- > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB > > > > storage > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- -- > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > > Date: > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the > > all > > > > new Security Centre. http://uk.security. > > <http://uk.security.> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------- ------- > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 > > > _________ > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now. http://www..co.uk/blackberry > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, I am sure that the list is long, but nonetheless, can I trouble you to give the entire list? Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > The list is long but here are some of them. The source is Rigveda. > > m. hilarity , rapture , excitement , inspiration , intoxication RV. &c. &c. > any exhilarating or intoxicating drink , spirituous liquor , wine , Soma > RV. &c. &c , > Intoxication or Insanity personified (as a monster created by Cyavana) MBh. > > I trust this helps, > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > I agree with you. However, if it's no problem, I would be thankful > > if you can give all the meanings of "mada" as given in monier- > > williams, apte dictionaries etc? > > > > Did you face similar problems when you translated the > > word "abhimaana" as pride/ego? > > > > regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > The pramana to ancient text is indeed difficult to give, as there > > are no > > > Sanskrit to English dictionaries that were written by the ancient > > sages. > > > > > > You may, however, like to refer to Monier William dictionary that > > > translates Sanskrit words to English as we are talking about > > English > > > words. I would, personally, refer to Sanskrit Kosha of Apte in > > hard > > > copy. Higher Sanskrit Grammar of M.R. Kale is another good source. > > The > > > meaning of Mada is made very clear there. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > Please translate the word "mada" also in all its nuances, and see > > > > why they all can not be applied to Rahu. Why close your mind to > > > > other meanings? > > > > > > > > I also notice that you have not provided any pramana that says > > > > that "mada" means only lust/intoxication and not > > pride/vanity/ego. I > > > > am still waiting for it. > > > > > > > > >From what Saravali says, I perceive "ego" to be the basic > > quality of > > > > all those born. it perpetuates survival and rebirth. If you > > > > disagree, can you provide a pramaana that says only a king can > > have > > > > ego and others can not. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > I was trying to translate Abhimana and not pride. And Pride > > in a > > > > King > > > > > whom you have all along been trying to equate to a Divine > > being (I > > > > think > > > > > amsha of Lord Vishnu or some such thing you said, while > > arguing > > > > why King > > > > > is divine and by extension Surya; if memory serves me right), > > may > > > > not be > > > > > a divine virtue but would certainly be tantamount to Ego. > > > > > > > > > > So please do not try to read something that is not there in > > the > > > > message. > > > > > It is always difficult to translate Sanskrit words in English > > > > language > > > > > due to limitation of words with different flavors in English. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting to see that you do not think that pride > > and ego > > > > > > are not one and the same thing. Please refer to your own > > message > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > /message/11735 > > </message/11735> > > > > </message/11735 > > </message/11735>> > > > > > > </message/11735 > > </message/11735> > > > > </message/11735 > > </message/11735>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > where you mentioned the following: > > > > > > > > > > > > "we find that Bhava Manjari does > > > > > > attribute Abhimana (pride/ego) to Surya and so does Bhuvan > > > > Deepak." > > > > > > > > > > > > How come pride/ego are synonymous in the case of Sun and > > not so > > > > in > > > > > > the case of Rahu? Is this fair? And, is this necessary? > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't "abhimaana" a much milder word than "mada"? The > > > > > > word "abhimaana" might have positive connotations, but the > > > > > > word "mada" has absolutely no positive connotations. > > Pradeep may > > > > > > not understand this but I am sure you do. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fair arguments never hurt me, sir, but this sort of > > arguments, > > > > > > especially coming from you, certainly confound me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you quote any pramaana that says "mada" means only lust > > and > > > > not > > > > > > pride/ego/vanity etc? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding vidyaa/avidyaa and auspicious/inauspicious nature > > of > > > > > > Mother: > > > > > > > > > > > > Vidyaavidya swaroopini: 402nd name of Mother > > > > > > > > > > > > Vidyaamchaavidyaamchayasthadvedobhayam saH, avidyayaamritu > > > > > > teerthva,vidyayaamritamasnutha, vidyaina charamavrittiroopam > > > > > > jnaanam, avidyaa bhedabhraantiroopam jnaanam" > > > > > > > > > > > > Avidya results in mrityu while vidyaa results in > > immortality and > > > > > > moiksha. Vidyaa gives charama vrittiroopa jnaanam, while > > avidya > > > > > > gives bhedabhraanthiroopa jnaanam. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, which one is auspicious? The direction which gives > > > > > > immortality/moksha or the direction which results in > > > > > > differentiation, delusion and death? > > > > > > > > > > > > Further in the explanation of the name "BhadramoorthiH" it > > is > > > > stated > > > > > > in Soubhagyabhaskaram that "brahmam tanmangalam". The true > > > > > > auspiciousness is that after which no other inauspiciousness > > > > occurs. > > > > > > In a state which is dominated by desires, delusions etc > > > > > > (mooladhara), this is impossible. This state of " > > absoluteness > > > > > > auspiciousness " is possible only at the state of Brahman > > > > > > (sahasraara). > > > > > > > > > > > > "theshaamcha lokaapibahuvidhaaH > > parasivaabhinnamahaashaktistu > > > > > > sarvalokaatheethaa mahaakailaasaaparaajithaadi > > padapratipaadye > > > > > > sarvalokotthare tisthathi.anyaapaam sivashakteenaam > > kathipayaanam > > > > > > saattwikshareeraanyapi sattwaadhikyagunaantharaalpatwa > > yukthaani > > > > na > > > > > > punaH shuddhasattwaani.. > > > > > > > > > > > > "The form where Mother is one with shiva is the > > > > highest/mahaashakti > > > > > > form. All shiva+shakti roopas are sattwa roopas, but those > > lower > > > > > > than this are a mixture of rajo and tamo gunas. > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope these suffice, or if you want, I can quote more. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > > > > > intoxication > > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana > > which > > > > > > means > > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what > > Asteya, > > > > one > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the > > > > dormant > > > > > > or > > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be > > > > misinterpreted > > > > > > if > > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any > > purpose. I > > > > would > > > > > > not > > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related > > to > > > > Maa. > > > > > > I have > > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to > > support > > > > your > > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > > > > > > awakened > > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the > > way > > > > my > > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I > > shall > > > > not > > > > > > repeat > > > > > > > it here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to > > quote > > > > from > > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. > > > > Being > > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to > > translate > > > > it > > > > > > for you. > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your > > > > contention. I > > > > > > would > > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I > > can > > > > > > improve > > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your > > propositions > > > > with > > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by > > pointing > > > > out > > > > > > the > > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu > > > > combinations > > > > > > in two > > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have > > > > done so > > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > > > > (greed), > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk > > > > with > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > > correct > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > > > > facets. As > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > > > > towards > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > > represented > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > > > > power, is > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very > > very > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I > > also > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > > > > results, if > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer > > to > > > > all my > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or > > losing an > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > > exploration and > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see > > no > > > > > > purpose in > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > > young. So > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > > > biography you > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > > > > robust > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms > > with > > > > his > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I > > was > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a > > Kuja > > > > dosha > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not > > bring our > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > > > > analysis of > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > > > > effects > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two > > have > > > > to be > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but > > only > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > > perhaps > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my > > mail, I > > > > did > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > > > > gave him > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > > > > beneficent as > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, > > did its > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's > > > > chart > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a > > powerful Raj > > > > > > yoga. At > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you > > may > > > > have > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. > > Think > > > > about > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before > > declaring > > > > that it > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > > looking > > > > at > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > > > > away in > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 > > (3:59:13 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > > (4:48:54 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > > (10:43:55 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 > > (5:06:28 > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > > (2:29:24 > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd > > > > lord from > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > > house > > > > of > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd > > lord > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations > > are > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th > > house, > > > > can > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > > influence > > > > of > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > > > > sure > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but > > without > > > > the > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > > > wherever he > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > > > > Mars in > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > > > commented > > > > > > on the > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > > > > planets > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > > > > previous > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great > > people, > > > > and > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > > > > said. Did > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant > > sarcoma of > > > > left > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, > > in > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > > > following > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord > > from > > > > Moon > > > > > > (AK) & > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is > > > > with Sun > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > > > > point to > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu > > can > > > > give > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at > > all, > > > > was > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 > > (2:05:32 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 > > (8:49:14 > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > > (12:04:47 > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > > (12:18:02 > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > > (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa > > of the > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their > > mind > > > > > > willed the > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > > planet > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > > > exaltation > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam > > has > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > > Mars/Venus in > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > > through my > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he > > was > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > > attributed to > > > > it, > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they > > would > > > > all > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with > > Pancha > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > > (barring > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > > > principles and > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > > > reference to > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > > > > respected > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > > > > anything that > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > > > > would be > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I > > would of > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman > > that > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > > > > while weak > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree > > about > > > > strong > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to > > what > > > > all > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > > > > strong > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that > > their > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars > > in > > > > 5th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn (9H) > > and > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > > debilitated in > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > for "vipareetam > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > > placement > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives > > good > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is > > because i > > > > would > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > > shubha > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > > beneficial > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years > > old, > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice > > the > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > > according > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, > > even > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > > wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read > > the > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > > nature > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama > > would > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > > borne > > > > in > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > > Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > > house > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, > > the 10 > > > > th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > > death, > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the > > Rudras > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in > > south > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to > > Surya > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and > > not as > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of > > the > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > > > promotions > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or > > so > > > > as that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not > > have > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > > > > guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > > > > after all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > > instead > > > > of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say > > so > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a > > papa > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > > trikona > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed > > to > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > > > > home > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > > popularly > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at > > its > > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent > > water > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > > > > giving the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water > > bodies, so > > > > why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- ---- > > ---- > > > > ----- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------- ---- > > ---- > > > > ----- > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > -- > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is > > radically > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- ---- > > -- > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling > > > > worldwide > > > > > > with voicemail http://uk.messenger. > > <http://uk.messenger.> > > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>> > > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.> > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- -- > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > > Date: > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling > > worldwide > > > > with voicemail http://uk.messenger. > > <http://uk.messenger.> > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from > > just 8p a photo http://uk.photos. <http://uk.photos.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------- ------- > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 > > > _________ > All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, I have already explicitly answered you query elsewhere and repeatedly about Kundalini being "auspicious" at sahasraara and not at "mooladhara" by quoting from shastras, giving examples etc. I also gave copious quotes about vidya/avidya, sthoola/sookshma etc...infact everything you wanted. I am sure all those are enough to convince someone who genuinely wants to understand. May i remind you that it's you who had sought these clarifications and I am surprised that suddenly you should find that we have strayed from the original thread, which, ofcourse, is a fact:--)) Btw, can you quote any shloka which says that kundalini is auspicious at mooladhara and not at sahasraara? The shloka you gave describes the stature/nature of Mother as moolaprakriti, but does it say anywhere that kundalini at mooladhara is auspicious? If you think that "gyaana" means "auspicious", are you not conjecturing? Yet when I give quotes which expressly use terms as "mangalam" and "shubham" you inexplicably find them irrelevant!! I also see that you have neither commented about my understanding of "triramani" nor have you given your understanding of the phrase "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä"? I have often heard you say that one must use "viveka"....perhaps it means that one must use it selectively or only when it suits one and not dispassionately and at all times. But I do want to use mine now, and i plainly see that there's no point in continuing these discussions, and no real learning/understanding accrues. I also sadly conclude that one can endlessly wax eloquent about "humility and learning lessons of life" but practising them in real life is a different story all together. As i said earlier, one may have accumulated a lot of knowledge, but unless that knowledge touches one and transforms one, what's the use? Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > The dictionaries give these meaning of Aanana. > n. the mouth > the face R. Ragh. &c. > entrance , door L. > > Do you find head mentioned here? If we want to go into why Ravana was > called Dashanana and not Dashasheersha, the reason would consume much > time especially if we go on from topic to topic, leaving the original > thread and not adding to our knowledge in any manner. > > I think you are deviating from my original comment, to which different > arguments have so far been presented by you and many others. > > If I remember right, I said that Kundalini is auspicious whether dormant > or awakened and you and a few more thought otherwise. I have not seen > anything in support of the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious, so far. > Do you not think saying that Mother is gyani in dormant state and then > saying she is inauspicious a bit misleading? If we accept that then > Gyana will be inauspicious. All texts will be inauspicious and so will > all the statues of the Gods. I do not think that is the right position > per scriptures. > > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > When we refer to Ravana as "Dashaanana" does that mean he had only > > 10 faces and not 10 heads? What about other synonyms for Ravana like > > dashakantha, dasagreeva etc? Or when we talk of "sahasra seersha > > purushaH " are we talking only of heads without faces? > > > > :--)) > > > > According to me, "triramani" suggests the Beautiful One who is > > embodiment of /resides in/revels in....gunatraya, roopatraya, > > avasthaatraya, maatritraya, bhoopuratraya, mandalatraya, konatraya, > > rekhaatraya, mantratraya, kootatraya, triputi etc. > > > > I hope you realize that here we are talking of one who has > > sthoola/sookshma/karana sareeras as well as trigunas. Please > > contrast this to "sphutashivashaktisamaagama beejankuraroopiNi > > paraashaktiH aNutharasookshmaanuttaravimarshalipi > > lakshyavigrahaabhaathi"-which means that union of shiva-shakti is > > like beejankura. At this juncture Paraashakti is so subtle as not to > > be perceived at all. She's like akasha and exists only as > > akshara/mantra swaroopini. Vagbhava koota! > > > > I refer you to the "oordhwamoolamadhaH shaakham ashwatham" example I > > quoted earlier, in this respect. What's is seen at the lower level > > is physical/gunamayi (sthoola/gross) manifestation, while at the > > higher level it's the unseen roots/beeja (sookshma/subtle) > > manifestation. Both belong to the same tree, but there is a > > difference in manifestation. > > > > Mother is definitely "gyaanini" at all times. But at Mooladhara the > > gyaana is only inert/potential. Suppose you have a great life- > > changing book (kundalini) in your house (body), shut up in a room > > (mooladhara). You do have the book, the potential to actuate > > yourself, but unless you open the room, read the book, allow that > > great wisdom to touch you and transform you, do you reap any benefit > > from its presence? > > > > Now, can I please have your understanding > > of "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä"? > > > > Perhaps we are unfairly imposing on others' time. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > I hope you do not want me to translate Aanana as head? I do not > > see you > > > disputing Kundalini in Mulaadhara being called Triramani, GYaanini > > etc. > > > though you think she is inauspicious there. May I know why? I hope > > you > > > do not dispute Lord Krishna's opinion on GYana. > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > Thanks for sharing the nice shloka with us. I am sorry that I had > > > > indeed overlooked responding to it. In this regard, I have > > already > > > > given my explanation of what's auspicious and what's not, based > > on > > > > Soubhagya Bhaskaram. > > > > > > > > Can you please explain to me how you understand the > > > > phrase "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä". > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same > > place, > > > > and if > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments are > > > > acceptable. > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support of your > > argument > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I > > sent > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head > > come...in > > > > the > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other koota > > > > defined > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you imply > > that > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology > > mappings > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple > > principle in > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless you are > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to > > confuse > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended > > that "bisa > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at > > Mooladhara > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately after "mooladharaika > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python at > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only > > from > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is ignited > > only > > > > when > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a group of > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the vacha. > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect the > > > > throat > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her > > principal > > > > abode > > > > > > is > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if you > > want > > > > to > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are > > free to > > > > do > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja is > > most > > > > dear > > > > > > to > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the > > > > reference). > > > > > > It > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini means > > of > > > > the > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly does > > not > > > > mean > > > > > > what > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala Tantra. > > Do > > > > you > > > > > > think > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as > > vagbhava > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the > > yamalas, i > > > > am > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of > > the > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is > > the > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, > > let me > > > > quote > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. > > maa > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. > > It's > > > > time > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <% > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among > > the > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > with > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > > > > facets. > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > > > > towards > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? > > The > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom > > and > > > > power, > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very > > > > very > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I > > > > also > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > > > > results, > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can > > refer > > > > to all > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or > > losing > > > > an > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > > exploration > > > > and > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I > > see no > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > > young. > > > > So > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > > > biography > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of > > apparent > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know > > I > > > > was > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a > > Kuja > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not > > bring > > > > our > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > > > > analysis > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on > > the > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two > > have > > > > to be > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but > > > > only > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > > perhaps > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my > > mail, > > > > I did > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that > > it > > > > gave > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, > > did > > > > its > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > > Vivekananda's > > > > chart > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a > > powerful > > > > Raj > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, > > you may > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. > > Think > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before > > declaring > > > > that > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > > > > looking at > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he > > passed > > > > away > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 > > (3:59:13 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 > > (5:06:28 > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the > > 2nd > > > > lord > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > > > > house of > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd > > lord > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > > significations > > > > are > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th > > house, > > > > can > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I > > am > > > > sure > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--)) but > > > > without the > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > > > wherever > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the > > strong > > > > Mars > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > > > commented > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that > > the > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > > > > previous > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great > > people, > > > > and > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > > > > said. > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant > > sarcoma > > > > of > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > > > following > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord > > from > > > > Moon > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu > > is > > > > with > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of > > which > > > > point > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and > > ketu > > > > can > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at > > > > all, was > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 > > (2:05:32 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 > > (8:49:14 > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > (12:47:04 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa > > of > > > > the > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their > > mind > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my > > next > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane > > smritam has > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > > Mars/Venus > > > > in > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > > through > > > > my > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that > > he > > > > was > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving > > P.M. > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > > attributed > > > > to > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they > > would > > > > all > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > > > principles > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > > > reference > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > > > > anything > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, > > it > > > > would > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I > > would > > > > of > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. > > Raman > > > > that > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > > > > while > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree > > about > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to > > > > what > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find > > that > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that > > their > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and > > mars > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn > > (9H) > > > > and > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > > debilitated > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > > > > placement in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives > > good > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is > > because i > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > > > > shubha > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice > > the > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is > > giving > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give > > bad > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > > wouldn't > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust > > and > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala > > is > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to > > read the > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > > > > nature > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama > > would > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > > > > borne in > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > > Duryodhana, > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, > > the > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > > > > death, > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the > > Rudras > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and > > not > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results > > of > > > > the > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > > > promotions > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 > > or so > > > > as > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and > > Rahu > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > > > > guessed > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > > > > after > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > > instead > > > > of > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I > > say so > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a > > papa > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > > trikona > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though > > claimed > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and > > its > > > > home > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > > > > popularly > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent > > water > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great > > and i > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative > > writing, > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun > > were > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being > > in > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > > > > giving > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water > > bodies, > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best > > spam > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- ---- > > ---- > > > > ----- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of- date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------- ---- > > ---- > > > > ----- > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is > > > > radically > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- ---- > > -- > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB > > > > storage > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- -- > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > > Date: > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the > > all > > > > new Security Centre. http://uk.security. > > <http://uk.security.> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard > > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------- ------- > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 > > > _________ > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Mail. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, That was certainly my fault. Signs of me getting old. The text being in roman script, I was deficient in not reading it through. It was indeed negligent of me to read the first verse and then read some other verses not in order. So I assumed that the description is journey of Kundalini or Chitashakti, from Sawdhishthana onwards. I am more comfortable with Devanagari or ULW Palladio fonts as the spelling of "ta" is done differently in north and south. There are many other Devanagari letters where this occurs. But as I said I can not escape blame on that account. By the way does the shloka specifically, or by inference, mention that Kundalini in Kulakunda is inauspicious as is being made out by you? That is the basic question. Kindly let me know. The very word Kula Kunda indicates that the Kunda is the natural dwelling of the Kula or Shakti. So does the shloka mean that she is inauspicious in own abode? Kindly enlighten. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > Perhaps you have not read/understood the sanskrit properly. There > are references to kundalini being dormant, kundalini being activated > kundalini becoming auspicious. As far as my limited knowledge goes, > kulakunda is "mooladhara" and I am sure you can clearly see phrase > in the quotation. > > The reference is taken originally from Sanatkumaara tantra, expanded > in soubhagya bhaskaram and forms part of vishesha vyaakhya on the > phrase "bisa tantu taneeyasee". > > If you want the entire vyaakhya, i have no objection in giving it. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > Are you not deviating from the original thread? Where is the > reference > > to the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious? And may I know as to > why > > the shloka describing the state of Kundalini at Muladhara is > excluded? I > > am sure you know that Kundalini does not arise from Swadhishthana. > Would > > you bekind enough to quote the source sothat I could try to > locate the > > complete verse myself? > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > "agnim swaadhistaanagataagnitejomayeem kundalineemichhdhwam. > > > icchaadandenaahatyothapayadhwam....athaeva > rodanaavasthasaahityaat. > > > kulakundaadutthaapanasyotpatti roopatwaaccha sadya utpannaa > > > kumaareetyuchyathe. yoshittaruNee kaarunyalakshaNaa > > > sooryeNaahtaaduparibhaage saahityaatpativrataa. patim > > > brahmarandhrastham kaameshwaram vratayati bhunkte payovratam > > > braahmaNasyethi prayogaaccha evam koumaarataaruNya > > > sambhogairarishtam shubham peeyusha varshaNaroopam anyadapi > > > yatkinchitsaakriyathe karoti tatsarvam agnisswaadhisthaanagatho > > > anuvedhati saadhayathi. agnijwalanenaiva chandramandalam > dravateethi > > > bhavaH" > > > > > > I am sure you can translate this and understand that Kundalini > has > > > the ability to do "shubham" only when it matures (utpatti > avastha) > > > and unites with Shiva causing the amrita varsham, through the > medium > > > of agni. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from scriptures > > > that you > > > > have that state that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious. That > will > > > help > > > > enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja and other > Kootas. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me in the body divisions given according to > kootas, > > > is > > > > > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? Let's get this > > > straight > > > > > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. Please do > not > > > worry > > > > > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, and can > provide > > > > > them by the ton:--)) > > > > > > > > > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean the portion > upto > > > neck > > > > > or the portion upto forehead? > > > > > > > > > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same > > > place, > > > > > and if > > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments > are > > > > > acceptable. > > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support of your > > > argument > > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I > > > sent > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head > > > come...in > > > > > the > > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other > koota > > > > > defined > > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you > imply > > > that > > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology > > > mappings > > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple > > > principle in > > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless > you are > > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to > > > confuse > > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended > > > that "bisa > > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at > > > Mooladhara > > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately > after "mooladharaika > > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python > at > > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at > > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni > > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only > > > from > > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is > ignited > > > only > > > > > when > > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a > group of > > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the > vacha. > > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect > the > > > > > throat > > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her > > > principal > > > > > abode > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if > you > > > want > > > > > to > > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are > > > free to > > > > > do > > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja > is > > > most > > > > > dear > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the > > > > > reference). > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini > means > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly > does > > > not > > > > > mean > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala > Tantra. > > > Do > > > > > you > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as > > > vagbhava > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the > > > yamalas, i > > > > > am > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava > > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and > talks of > > > the > > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe > utsave > > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa > yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" > is > > > the > > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, > > > let me > > > > > quote > > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. > uttishtatha. > > > maa > > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the > > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on > Kundalini. > > > It's > > > > > time > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <% > > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), > lobha > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply > among > > > the > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" > and > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of > both > > > > > facets. > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be > routed > > > > > towards > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the > same? > > > The > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, > is > > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, > wisdom > > > and > > > > > power, > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is > very > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and > krura. I > > > > > also > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give > malefic > > > > > results, > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can > > > refer > > > > > to all > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or > > > losing > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > > > exploration > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I > > > see no > > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > > > young. > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read > Swamiji's > > > > > biography > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of > > > apparent > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart > confirms > > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not > know > > > I > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there > is a > > > Kuja > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not > > > bring > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into > astrological > > > > > analysis > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are > on > > > the > > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The > two > > > have > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an > event but > > > > > only > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in > that > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read > my > > > mail, > > > > > I did > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only > that > > > it > > > > > gave > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and > always > > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the > topic, > > > did > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > > > Vivekananda's > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a > > > powerful > > > > > Raj > > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, > > > you may > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as > Mahakrura. > > > Think > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before > > > declaring > > > > > that > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu > and > > > > > looking at > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he > > > passed > > > > > away > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 > > > (3:59:13 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 > > > (5:06:28 > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 > > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is > the > > > 2nd > > > > > lord > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in > the > > > > > house of > > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the > 2nd > > > lord > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > > > significations > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th > > > house, > > > > > can > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th > house? I > > > am > > > > > sure > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--)) > but > > > > > without the > > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he > created > > > > > wherever > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the > 7th > > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the > > > strong > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have > not > > > > > commented > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava > that > > > the > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated > in > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great > > > people, > > > > > and > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of > what I > > > > > said. > > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant > > > sarcoma > > > > > of > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his > > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine > the > > > > > following > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd > lord > > > from > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, > rahu > > > is > > > > > with > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of > > > which > > > > > point > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and > > > ketu > > > > > can > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, > if at > > > > > all, was > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 > > > (2:05:32 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 > > > (8:49:14 > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > (12:47:04 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the > dasa > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think > their > > > mind > > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the > above > > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in > my > > > next > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as > a > > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even > when in > > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane > > > smritam has > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > > > Mars/Venus > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > > > through > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and > that > > > he > > > > > was > > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving > > > P.M. > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > > > attributed > > > > > to > > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine > they > > > would > > > > > all > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all > with > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of > India > > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > > > > principles > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using > > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving > the > > > > > reference > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old > classic > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to > accept > > > > > anything > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. > Raman, > > > it > > > > > would > > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka > I > > > would > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. > > > Raman > > > > > that > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good > results, > > > > > while > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also > disagree > > > about > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it > contrary to > > > > > what > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I > find > > > that > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor > that > > > their > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and > > > mars > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted > Saturn > > > (9H) > > > > > and > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > > > debilitated > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > > > > > placement in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn > gives > > > good > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is > > > because i > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% > 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, > that > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and > the > > > > > shubha > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak > and > > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 > years > > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't > notice > > > the > > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the > difference > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is > > > giving > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, > then > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, > give > > > bad > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong > planets, > > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > > > wouldn't > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly > combust > > > and > > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according > > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher > shadbala > > > is > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to > > > read the > > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, > the > > > > > nature > > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because > Parashurama > > > would > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. > > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to > be > > > > > borne in > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > > > Duryodhana, > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from > 8th > > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural > zodiac, > > > the > > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord > of > > > > > death, > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the > > > Rudras > > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun > resides in > > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he > has > > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I > referred to > > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma > and > > > not > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the > results > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father > had > > > > > promotions > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that > time. > > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of > 9 > > > or so > > > > > as > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you > did not > > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu > and > > > Rahu > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as > you > > > > > guessed > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati > yoga > > > > > after > > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > > > instead > > > > > of > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I > > > say so > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when > conjunct a > > > papa > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > > > trikona > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though > > > claimed > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) > and > > > its > > > > > home > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > > > > > popularly > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it > is > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun > be at > > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not > represent > > > water > > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent > too. My > > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great > > > and i > > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative > > > writing, > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a > student, I > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if > Sun > > > were > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but > being > > > in > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is > also > > > > > giving > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic > and > > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent > burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water > > > bodies, > > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the > best > > > spam > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of- > date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is > > > > > radically > > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- > ---- > > > -- > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and > 1GB > > > > > storage > > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- > -- > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > Release > > > Date: > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed > the > > > all > > > > > new Security Centre. http://uk.security. > <http://uk.security.> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > Date: > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its > > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > ________ > > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now. > http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > > > > > > ------ > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 _________ All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, I am glad we can finally concur on this. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > I have already mentioned that perhaps we are wrong in > considering "ego" to be a negative quality associated only with the > next person and not us. Like "happiness" or "grief", "ego" (as a > separative feeling) is also a permanent part of our mental makeup. > > When afflicted, all qualities, good or bad, turn into > exaggerations / anomalies, and need to be corrected, and inflated > ego is no exception. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > I did not say that. It was you who questioned whether a 5 year old > can > > be intoxicated? I have not said that a baby does not have a mind > soul > > etc. as far as I remember. I was only asking you about your > premise of > > what is inner qualities/inherent/natural qualities and what is not > and > > questioning the intoxication of a 5 year old child. I was pointing > out > > that intoxication when related to Mada is not necessarily though > not > > excluding that of intoxicating substance but also of mind. > > > > I think ego, as being out of proportionate proud of one's actual > or > > perceived accomplishments and ego as the feeling of > differentiation with > > that of Parmatman is very different. This is the problem when one > wants > > to discuss Sanskrit or even Prakrit words in English. I think I > have > > already brought this to your notice earlier too. > > > > I trust I have clarified my statements enough. And by the way when > we > > are discussing ego yes that is about anomalies brought about by > certain > > Grahas and who does that. Otherwise why would a graha, favorably > > disposed, bring about bad qualities in a person? > > > > Think about this. Would a weak Moon, afflicted and ill placed > bring > > about mental aberration or a strong Moon that is favorably placed? > Would > > weak Sun, unfavorably placed make one a King or a weak Sun > unfavorably > > placed? If we are talking about a graha giving all the attributes > given > > to it irrespective of its state of strength and type of placement, > then > > perhaps we have wasted everyone's time and space. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > God forbid that I should find "unmaada" a natural/normal > occurrence > > > in children. I am sure that you realize here that we are not > > > discussing anomalies but regular qualities. > > > > > > "ego" as a separate "I" feeling occurs right from birth, as a > > > survival instinct. It may not be apparent then, but then are > soul, > > > mind etc very apparent at that stage/age? Just because it's not > > > actively manifested, can you say that a newborn baby has no soul, > > > mind etc? similarly speech, sexuality are also latent in all, but > > > will manifest only at the appropriate age. > > > > > > Please consider the above. > > > > > > Regards > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > Have you not heard about unmaada in even 3 year old children? > > > Please > > > > think about this before declaring that it is not possible in 5 > > > years > > > > old. And congenital conditions where impure blood flows t > heart > > > causing > > > > comatose conditions that can be equated to intoxication? > > > > > > > > I do not think I have said that a Bull elephant is in a > permanent > > > state > > > > of intoxication. I have only used its example to indicate > what is > > > Mada. > > > > > > > > If the test of what is inner quality is being in that state > > > permanently > > > > then even your definition of ego suffers from not being so in > very > > > young > > > > children. Nor is lust in existence from young age. Ask any > medical > > > > practitioner and he will tell that I am not wrong. Not that I > > > think the > > > > parameter is right. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > What i meant by "inner" quality is an "inherent/natural " > > > quality of > > > > > human being. Please refer to my original mail in this > respect. > > > > > > > > > > Now, all of us have soul, mind, strength, speech, knowledge, > > > > > happiness, ego (sense of being different from others) and > grief. > > > > > Even a 5 year old kid has all these qualities, as > appropriate to > > > > > his/her age, unless handicapped. Are we intoxicated? Is the > 5 > > > year > > > > > old intoxicated? Is "intoxication" a natural or unnatural > > > quality? > > > > > Is the bull elephant in a permanent state of intoxication? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > At least AI did not answer as I did not want to split > hairs > > > over > > > > > whether > > > > > > all that is mentioned in the referred shloka is inner > quality > > > > > since I do > > > > > > not find Kalyan Varman mentioning or implying so. However > as > > > you > > > > > want an > > > > > > reply, let me ask as to why if speech, attributed to > Budha in > > > the > > > > > > shloka, can be internal quality according to you then why > > > should > > > > > > intoxication not be? > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the > shloka > > > from > > > > > > > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an > > > > > > > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply > > > intoxication > > > > > as > > > > > > > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication" belong in > > > that > > > > > > > context, in that group? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not think either of you responded to that. perhaps > you > > > > > missed > > > > > > > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can i have your response(s) please? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does > mean > > > > > > > intoxication > > > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to > kaamana > > > which > > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what > > > Asteya, > > > > > one > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of > the > > > > > dormant > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be > > > > > misinterpreted > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any > > > purpose. I > > > > > would > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya > related > > > to > > > > > Maa. > > > > > > > I have > > > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to > > > support > > > > > your > > > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious > and the > > > > > > > awakened > > > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted > the > > > way > > > > > my > > > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I > > > shall > > > > > not > > > > > > > repeat > > > > > > > > it here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to > > > quote > > > > > from > > > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant > Kundalini. > > > > > Being > > > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to > > > translate > > > > > it > > > > > > > for you. > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your > > > > > contention. I > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so > that I > > > can > > > > > > > improve > > > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your > > > propositions > > > > > with > > > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by > > > pointing > > > > > out > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu > > > > > combinations > > > > > > > in two > > > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I > have > > > > > done so > > > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), > lobha > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply > among the > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > intoxicated/drunk > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > > > correct > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of > both > > > > > facets. As > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be > routed > > > > > towards > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? > The > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > > > represented > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom > and > > > > > power, is > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is > very > > > very > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and > krura. I > > > also > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give > malefic > > > > > results, if > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can > refer > > > to > > > > > all my > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or > > > losing an > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > > > exploration and > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I > see > > > no > > > > > > > purpose in > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > > > young. So > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > > > > biography you > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of > apparent > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart > confirms > > > with > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not > know I > > > was > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a > > > Kuja > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not > > > bring our > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into > astrological > > > > > analysis of > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are > on the > > > > > effects > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two > > > have > > > > > to be > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event > but > > > only > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > > > perhaps > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in > that > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my > > > mail, I > > > > > did > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only > that it > > > > > gave him > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and > always > > > > > > > beneficent as > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, > > > did its > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > Vivekananda's > > > > > chart > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a > > > powerful Raj > > > > > > > yoga. At > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, > you > > > may > > > > > have > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. > > > Think > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before > > > declaring > > > > > that it > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > > > looking > > > > > at > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he > passed > > > > > away in > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 > > > (3:59:13 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > > > (4:48:54 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > > > (10:43:55 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 > > > (5:06:28 > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > > > (2:29:24 > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 > (1:27:03 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the > 2nd > > > > > lord from > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > > > house > > > > > of > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd > > > lord > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > significations > > > are > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th > > > house, > > > > > can > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > > > influence > > > > > of > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? > I am > > > > > sure > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > > > > wherever he > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the > 7th > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the > strong > > > > > Mars in > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > > > > commented > > > > > > > on the > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava > that the > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > > > > > previous > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great > > > people, > > > > > and > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of > what I > > > > > said. Did > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant > > > sarcoma of > > > > > left > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his > chart, > > > in > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > > > > following > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord > > > from > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > (AK) & > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, > rahu is > > > > > with Sun > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of > which > > > > > point to > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and > ketu > > > can > > > > > give > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if > at > > > all, > > > > > was > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 > > > (2:05:32 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 > > > (8:49:14 > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > > > (12:04:47 > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > > > (12:18:02 > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > > > (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the > dasa > > > of the > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think > their > > > mind > > > > > > > willed the > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my > next > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > > > planet > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when > in > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane > smritam > > > has > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > > > Mars/Venus in > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > > > through my > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and > that he > > > was > > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving > P.M. > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > > > attributed to > > > > > it, > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they > > > would > > > > > all > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > > > (barring > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > > > > principles and > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > > > > reference to > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old > classic > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > > > > > anything that > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. > Raman, it > > > > > would be > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I > > > would of > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. > Raman > > > that > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good > results, > > > > > while weak > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree > > > about > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary > to > > > what > > > > > all > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find > that > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that > > > their > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and > mars > > > in > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn > (9H) > > > and > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > > > debilitated in > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > > > placement > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn > gives > > > good > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is > > > because i > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, > that > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > > > shubha > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > > > beneficial > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 > years > > > old, > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't > notice > > > the > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is > giving > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, > then it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > > > according > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give > bad > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong > planets, > > > even > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > > > wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust > and > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher > shadbala is > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to > read > > > the > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > > > nature > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama > > > would > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. > Deceit > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > > > borne > > > > > in > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > > > Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > > > house > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, > > > the 10 > > > > > th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > > > death, > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the > > > Rudras > > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides > in > > > south > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred > to > > > Surya > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and > > > not as > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the > results of > > > the > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > > > > promotions > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that > time. It > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 > or > > > so > > > > > as that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did > not > > > have > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and > Rahu > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as > you > > > > > guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati > yoga > > > > > after all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > > > instead > > > > > of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I > say > > > so > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a > > > papa > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > > > trikona > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though > claimed > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) > and its > > > > > home > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > > > popularly > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be > at > > > its > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent > > > water > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. > My > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great > and i > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative > writing, > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a > student, I > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun > were > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but > being in > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is > also > > > > > giving the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water > > > bodies, so > > > > > why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best > spam > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is > > > radically > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- > ---- > > > -- > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling > > > > > worldwide > > > > > > > with voicemail http://uk.messenger. > <http://uk.messenger.> > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>> > > > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.> > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>>> > > > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.> > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>> > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.> > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- > -- > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > Release > > > Date: > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your > email > > > > > address from your Internet provider. > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > Date: > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our > SpamGuard > > > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > ________ > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all > new Security Centre. http://uk.security. > <http://uk.security.> > > > > > > > ------ > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 _________ Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" – The Wall Street Journal http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, I think you are exasperated due to me asking you to quote for Kundalini being inauspicious as was your contention, since you are now asking me to give some quote to indicate that it is inauspicious in Sahasrara. I have never held that position so there is no question of me giving such a quote. If you remember what triggered this discussion, it was my comment that Kundalini whether dormant or awake is auspicious being Chiti or Chita Shakti. I would not like to get involved in argument over Vidya/avidya here as you seem to think one is auspicious and other is inauspicious. This is like saying that Para Vidya is auspicious and therefore apara vidya must be inauspicious. I disagree with this concept as it is not supported by rational pramanas and tarkas. As to Viveka and its use, I am sure those who read the correspondence, so far, can decide better. By the way, I prefer to attempt to transform myself than to claim to be able to transform others. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > I have already explicitly answered you query elsewhere and > repeatedly about Kundalini being "auspicious" at sahasraara and not > at "mooladhara" by quoting from shastras, giving examples etc. I > also gave copious quotes about vidya/avidya, sthoola/sookshma > etc...infact everything you wanted. I am sure all those are enough > to convince someone who genuinely wants to understand. > > May i remind you that it's you who had sought these clarifications > and I am surprised that suddenly you should find that we have > strayed from the original thread, which, ofcourse, is a fact:--)) > > Btw, can you quote any shloka which says that kundalini is > auspicious at mooladhara and not at sahasraara? The shloka you gave > describes the stature/nature of Mother as moolaprakriti, but does it > say anywhere that kundalini at mooladhara is auspicious? If you > think that "gyaana" means "auspicious", are you not conjecturing? > Yet when I give quotes which expressly use terms as "mangalam" > and "shubham" you inexplicably find them irrelevant!! > > I also see that you have neither commented about my understanding > of "triramani" nor have you given your understanding of the > phrase "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä"? > > I have often heard you say that one must use "viveka"....perhaps it > means that one must use it selectively or only when it suits one and > not dispassionately and at all times. > > But I do want to use mine now, and i plainly see that there's no > point in continuing these discussions, and no real > learning/understanding accrues. I also sadly conclude that one can > endlessly wax eloquent about "humility and learning lessons of life" > but practising them in real life is a different story all together. > > As i said earlier, one may have accumulated a lot of knowledge, but > unless that knowledge touches one and transforms one, what's the use? > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > The dictionaries give these meaning of Aanana. > > n. the mouth > > the face R. Ragh. &c. > > entrance , door L. > > > > Do you find head mentioned here? If we want to go into why Ravana > was > > called Dashanana and not Dashasheersha, the reason would consume > much > > time especially if we go on from topic to topic, leaving the > original > > thread and not adding to our knowledge in any manner. > > > > I think you are deviating from my original comment, to which > different > > arguments have so far been presented by you and many others. > > > > If I remember right, I said that Kundalini is auspicious whether > dormant > > or awakened and you and a few more thought otherwise. I have not > seen > > anything in support of the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious, > so far. > > Do you not think saying that Mother is gyani in dormant state and > then > > saying she is inauspicious a bit misleading? If we accept that > then > > Gyana will be inauspicious. All texts will be inauspicious and so > will > > all the statues of the Gods. I do not think that is the right > position > > per scriptures. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > When we refer to Ravana as "Dashaanana" does that mean he had > only > > > 10 faces and not 10 heads? What about other synonyms for Ravana > like > > > dashakantha, dasagreeva etc? Or when we talk of "sahasra seersha > > > purushaH " are we talking only of heads without faces? > > > > > > :--)) > > > > > > According to me, "triramani" suggests the Beautiful One who is > > > embodiment of /resides in/revels in....gunatraya, roopatraya, > > > avasthaatraya, maatritraya, bhoopuratraya, mandalatraya, > konatraya, > > > rekhaatraya, mantratraya, kootatraya, triputi etc. > > > > > > I hope you realize that here we are talking of one who has > > > sthoola/sookshma/karana sareeras as well as trigunas. Please > > > contrast this to "sphutashivashaktisamaagama beejankuraroopiNi > > > paraashaktiH aNutharasookshmaanuttaravimarshalipi > > > lakshyavigrahaabhaathi"-which means that union of shiva-shakti is > > > like beejankura. At this juncture Paraashakti is so subtle as > not to > > > be perceived at all. She's like akasha and exists only as > > > akshara/mantra swaroopini. Vagbhava koota! > > > > > > I refer you to the "oordhwamoolamadhaH shaakham ashwatham" > example I > > > quoted earlier, in this respect. What's is seen at the lower > level > > > is physical/gunamayi (sthoola/gross) manifestation, while at the > > > higher level it's the unseen roots/beeja (sookshma/subtle) > > > manifestation. Both belong to the same tree, but there is a > > > difference in manifestation. > > > > > > Mother is definitely "gyaanini" at all times. But at Mooladhara > the > > > gyaana is only inert/potential. Suppose you have a great life- > > > changing book (kundalini) in your house (body), shut up in a room > > > (mooladhara). You do have the book, the potential to actuate > > > yourself, but unless you open the room, read the book, allow that > > > great wisdom to touch you and transform you, do you reap any > benefit > > > from its presence? > > > > > > Now, can I please have your understanding > > > of "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä"? > > > > > > Perhaps we are unfairly imposing on others' time. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > I hope you do not want me to translate Aanana as head? I do > not > > > see you > > > > disputing Kundalini in Mulaadhara being called Triramani, > GYaanini > > > etc. > > > > though you think she is inauspicious there. May I know why? I > hope > > > you > > > > do not dispute Lord Krishna's opinion on GYana. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for sharing the nice shloka with us. I am sorry that > I had > > > > > indeed overlooked responding to it. In this regard, I have > > > already > > > > > given my explanation of what's auspicious and what's not, > based > > > on > > > > > Soubhagya Bhaskaram. > > > > > > > > > > Can you please explain to me how you understand the > > > > > phrase "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä". > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same > > > place, > > > > > and if > > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments > are > > > > > acceptable. > > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support of your > > > argument > > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I > > > sent > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head > > > come...in > > > > > the > > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other > koota > > > > > defined > > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you > imply > > > that > > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology > > > mappings > > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple > > > principle in > > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless > you are > > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to > > > confuse > > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended > > > that "bisa > > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at > > > Mooladhara > > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately > after "mooladharaika > > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python > at > > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at > > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni > > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only > > > from > > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is > ignited > > > only > > > > > when > > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a > group of > > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the > vacha. > > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect > the > > > > > throat > > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her > > > principal > > > > > abode > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if > you > > > want > > > > > to > > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are > > > free to > > > > > do > > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja > is > > > most > > > > > dear > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the > > > > > reference). > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini > means > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly > does > > > not > > > > > mean > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala > Tantra. > > > Do > > > > > you > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as > > > vagbhava > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the > > > yamalas, i > > > > > am > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava > > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and > talks of > > > the > > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe > utsave > > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa > yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" > is > > > the > > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, > > > let me > > > > > quote > > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. > uttishtatha. > > > maa > > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the > > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on > Kundalini. > > > It's > > > > > time > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <% > > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), > lobha > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply > among > > > the > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" > and > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of > both > > > > > facets. > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be > routed > > > > > towards > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the > same? > > > The > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, > is > > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, > wisdom > > > and > > > > > power, > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is > very > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and > krura. I > > > > > also > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give > malefic > > > > > results, > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can > > > refer > > > > > to all > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or > > > losing > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > > > exploration > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I > > > see no > > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > > > young. > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read > Swamiji's > > > > > biography > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of > > > apparent > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart > confirms > > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not > know > > > I > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there > is a > > > Kuja > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not > > > bring > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into > astrological > > > > > analysis > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are > on > > > the > > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The > two > > > have > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an > event but > > > > > only > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in > that > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read > my > > > mail, > > > > > I did > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only > that > > > it > > > > > gave > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and > always > > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the > topic, > > > did > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > > > Vivekananda's > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a > > > powerful > > > > > Raj > > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, > > > you may > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as > Mahakrura. > > > Think > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before > > > declaring > > > > > that > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu > and > > > > > looking at > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he > > > passed > > > > > away > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 > > > (3:59:13 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 > > > (5:06:28 > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 > > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is > the > > > 2nd > > > > > lord > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in > the > > > > > house of > > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the > 2nd > > > lord > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > > > significations > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th > > > house, > > > > > can > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th > house? I > > > am > > > > > sure > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--)) > but > > > > > without the > > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he > created > > > > > wherever > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the > 7th > > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the > > > strong > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have > not > > > > > commented > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava > that > > > the > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated > in > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great > > > people, > > > > > and > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of > what I > > > > > said. > > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant > > > sarcoma > > > > > of > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his > > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine > the > > > > > following > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd > lord > > > from > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, > rahu > > > is > > > > > with > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of > > > which > > > > > point > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and > > > ketu > > > > > can > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, > if at > > > > > all, was > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 > > > (2:05:32 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 > > > (8:49:14 > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > (12:47:04 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the > dasa > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think > their > > > mind > > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the > above > > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in > my > > > next > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as > a > > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even > when in > > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane > > > smritam has > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > > > Mars/Venus > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > > > through > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and > that > > > he > > > > > was > > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving > > > P.M. > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > > > attributed > > > > > to > > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine > they > > > would > > > > > all > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all > with > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of > India > > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > > > > principles > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using > > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving > the > > > > > reference > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old > classic > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to > accept > > > > > anything > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. > Raman, > > > it > > > > > would > > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka > I > > > would > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. > > > Raman > > > > > that > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good > results, > > > > > while > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also > disagree > > > about > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it > contrary to > > > > > what > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I > find > > > that > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor > that > > > their > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and > > > mars > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted > Saturn > > > (9H) > > > > > and > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > > > debilitated > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > > > > > placement in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn > gives > > > good > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is > > > because i > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% > 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, > that > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and > the > > > > > shubha > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak > and > > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 > years > > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't > notice > > > the > > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the > difference > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is > > > giving > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, > then > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, > give > > > bad > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong > planets, > > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > > > wouldn't > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly > combust > > > and > > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according > > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher > shadbala > > > is > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to > > > read the > > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, > the > > > > > nature > > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because > Parashurama > > > would > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. > > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to > be > > > > > borne in > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > > > Duryodhana, > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from > 8th > > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural > zodiac, > > > the > > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord > of > > > > > death, > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the > > > Rudras > > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun > resides in > > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he > has > > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I > referred to > > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma > and > > > not > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the > results > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father > had > > > > > promotions > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that > time. > > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of > 9 > > > or so > > > > > as > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you > did not > > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu > and > > > Rahu > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as > you > > > > > guessed > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati > yoga > > > > > after > > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > > > instead > > > > > of > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I > > > say so > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when > conjunct a > > > papa > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > > > trikona > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though > > > claimed > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) > and > > > its > > > > > home > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > > > > > popularly > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it > is > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun > be at > > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not > represent > > > water > > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent > too. My > > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great > > > and i > > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative > > > writing, > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a > student, I > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if > Sun > > > were > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but > being > > > in > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is > also > > > > > giving > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic > and > > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent > burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water > > > bodies, > > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the > best > > > spam > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of- > date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is > > > > > radically > > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- > ---- > > > -- > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and > 1GB > > > > > storage > > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- > -- > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > Release > > > Date: > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed > the > > > all > > > > > new Security Centre. http://uk.security. > <http://uk.security.> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > Date: > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our > SpamGuard > > > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > ________ > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage > with All New Mail. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > > > ------ > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 _________ Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Mail. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, Perhaps it was incorrect of me not to type out the quotation in Itrans. Ramesh recently upgraded /migrated the system to a new OS, so my ITrans got wiped out. I could have installed it again, but I guess I was just being lazy. I am sorry I have caused you inconvenience in this regard. Sir, the shloka/quotation says that one (the sadhaka) must hit the dormant kundalini with the agni of one's iccha, repeatedly, until it turns up and starts to move. The immature/unripe kundalini at Mooladhara, matures in the process of reaching brahma randhra and unites with shiva thereat, so that it can cause "shubham" and Amrita varsha. Agni causes this transformation. I am sure you understand the allegory & the process of demagnetization of kundalini involved here. Sir, I have only one request, let's move on ahead with new understanding. Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > That was certainly my fault. Signs of me getting old. The text being in > roman script, I was deficient in not reading it through. It was indeed > negligent of me to read the first verse and then read some other verses > not in order. So I assumed that the description is journey of Kundalini > or Chitashakti, from Sawdhishthana onwards. I am more comfortable with > Devanagari or ULW Palladio fonts as the spelling of "ta" is done > differently in north and south. > There are many other Devanagari letters where this occurs. But as I said > I can not escape blame on that account. > > By the way does the shloka specifically, or by inference, mention that > Kundalini in Kulakunda is inauspicious as is being made out by you? That > is the basic question. Kindly let me know. > > The very word Kula Kunda indicates that the Kunda is the natural > dwelling of the Kula or Shakti. So does the shloka mean that she is > inauspicious in own abode? Kindly enlighten. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > Perhaps you have not read/understood the sanskrit properly. There > > are references to kundalini being dormant, kundalini being activated > > kundalini becoming auspicious. As far as my limited knowledge goes, > > kulakunda is "mooladhara" and I am sure you can clearly see phrase > > in the quotation. > > > > The reference is taken originally from Sanatkumaara tantra, expanded > > in soubhagya bhaskaram and forms part of vishesha vyaakhya on the > > phrase "bisa tantu taneeyasee". > > > > If you want the entire vyaakhya, i have no objection in giving it. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > Are you not deviating from the original thread? Where is the > > reference > > > to the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious? And may I know as to > > why > > > the shloka describing the state of Kundalini at Muladhara is > > excluded? I > > > am sure you know that Kundalini does not arise from Swadhishthana. > > Would > > > you bekind enough to quote the source sothat I could try to > > locate the > > > complete verse myself? > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > "agnim swaadhistaanagataagnitejomayeem kundalineemichhdhwam. > > > > icchaadandenaahatyothapayadhwam....athaeva > > rodanaavasthasaahityaat. > > > > kulakundaadutthaapanasyotpatti roopatwaaccha sadya utpannaa > > > > kumaareetyuchyathe. yoshittaruNee kaarunyalakshaNaa > > > > sooryeNaahtaaduparibhaage saahityaatpativrataa. patim > > > > brahmarandhrastham kaameshwaram vratayati bhunkte payovratam > > > > braahmaNasyethi prayogaaccha evam koumaarataaruNya > > > > sambhogairarishtam shubham peeyusha varshaNaroopam anyadapi > > > > yatkinchitsaakriyathe karoti tatsarvam agnisswaadhisthaanagatho > > > > anuvedhati saadhayathi. agnijwalanenaiva chandramandalam > > dravateethi > > > > bhavaH" > > > > > > > > I am sure you can translate this and understand that Kundalini > > has > > > > the ability to do "shubham" only when it matures (utpatti > > avastha) > > > > and unites with Shiva causing the amrita varsham, through the > > medium > > > > of agni. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from scriptures > > > > that you > > > > > have that state that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious. That > > will > > > > help > > > > > enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja and other > > Kootas. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me in the body divisions given according to > > kootas, > > > > is > > > > > > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? Let's get this > > > > straight > > > > > > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. Please do > > not > > > > worry > > > > > > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, and can > > provide > > > > > > them by the ton:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean the portion > > upto > > > > neck > > > > > > or the portion upto forehead? > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same > > > > place, > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments > > are > > > > > > acceptable. > > > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support of your > > > > argument > > > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I > > > > sent > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head > > > > come...in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other > > koota > > > > > > defined > > > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you > > imply > > > > that > > > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology > > > > mappings > > > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple > > > > principle in > > > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless > > you are > > > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to > > > > confuse > > > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended > > > > that "bisa > > > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at > > > > Mooladhara > > > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately > > after "mooladharaika > > > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python > > at > > > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at > > > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni > > > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only > > > > from > > > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is > > ignited > > > > only > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a > > group of > > > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the > > vacha. > > > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect > > the > > > > > > throat > > > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her > > > > principal > > > > > > abode > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if > > you > > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are > > > > free to > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja > > is > > > > most > > > > > > dear > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the > > > > > > reference). > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini > > means > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly > > does > > > > not > > > > > > mean > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala > > Tantra. > > > > Do > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the > > > > yamalas, i > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava > > > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and > > talks of > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe > > utsave > > > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa > > yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" > > is > > > > the > > > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, > > > > let me > > > > > > quote > > > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. > > uttishtatha. > > > > maa > > > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the > > > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on > > Kundalini. > > > > It's > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), > > lobha > > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply > > among > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" > > and > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of > > both > > > > > > facets. > > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be > > routed > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the > > same? > > > > The > > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, > > is > > > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, > > wisdom > > > > and > > > > > > power, > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is > > very > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and > > krura. I > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give > > malefic > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can > > > > refer > > > > > > to all > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or > > > > losing > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > > > > exploration > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I > > > > see no > > > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > > > > young. > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read > > Swamiji's > > > > > > biography > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of > > > > apparent > > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart > > confirms > > > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not > > know > > > > I > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there > > is a > > > > Kuja > > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not > > > > bring > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into > > astrological > > > > > > analysis > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are > > on > > > > the > > > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The > > two > > > > have > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an > > event but > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in > > that > > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read > > my > > > > mail, > > > > > > I did > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only > > that > > > > it > > > > > > gave > > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and > > always > > > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the > > topic, > > > > did > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > > > > Vivekananda's > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a > > > > powerful > > > > > > Raj > > > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, > > > > you may > > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as > > Mahakrura. > > > > Think > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before > > > > declaring > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu > > and > > > > > > looking at > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he > > > > passed > > > > > > away > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02- 10 > > > > (3:59:13 > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903- 08-27 > > > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09- 12 > > > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07- 07 > > > > (5:06:28 > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902- 07-06 > > > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 > > > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is > > the > > > > 2nd > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in > > the > > > > > > house of > > > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the > > 2nd > > > > lord > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > > > > significations > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th > > > > house, > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > > > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th > > house? I > > > > am > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:-- )) > > but > > > > > > without the > > > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he > > created > > > > > > wherever > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the > > 7th > > > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the > > > > strong > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have > > not > > > > > > commented > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava > > that > > > > the > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated > > in > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great > > > > people, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of > > what I > > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant > > > > sarcoma > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his > > > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine > > the > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd > > lord > > > > from > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, > > rahu > > > > is > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of > > > > which > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and > > > > ketu > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, > > if at > > > > > > all, was > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02- 03 > > > > (2:05:32 > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02- 21 > > > > (8:49:14 > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05- 18 > > > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04- 20 > > > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950- 04-14 > > > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > > (12:47:04 > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the > > dasa > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think > > their > > > > mind > > > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the > > above > > > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in > > my > > > > next > > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as > > a > > > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even > > when in > > > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane > > > > smritam has > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > > > > Mars/Venus > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > > > > through > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and > > that > > > > he > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > > > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving > > > > P.M. > > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > > > > attributed > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine > > they > > > > would > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all > > with > > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of > > India > > > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > > > > > principles > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using > > > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving > > the > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old > > classic > > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to > > accept > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. > > Raman, > > > > it > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka > > I > > > > would > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. > > > > Raman > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good > > results, > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also > > disagree > > > > about > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it > > contrary to > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I > > find > > > > that > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor > > that > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and > > > > mars > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted > > Saturn > > > > (9H) > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > > > > debilitated > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > > > > > > placement in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn > > gives > > > > good > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is > > > > because i > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% > > 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, > > that > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and > > the > > > > > > shubha > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak > > and > > > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 > > years > > > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't > > notice > > > > the > > > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the > > difference > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is > > > > giving > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, > > then > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, > > give > > > > bad > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong > > planets, > > > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly > > combust > > > > and > > > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according > > > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher > > shadbala > > > > is > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to > > > > read the > > > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, > > the > > > > > > nature > > > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because > > Parashurama > > > > would > > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. > > > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to > > be > > > > > > borne in > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > > > > Duryodhana, > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from > > 8th > > > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural > > zodiac, > > > > the > > > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord > > of > > > > > > death, > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the > > > > Rudras > > > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun > > resides in > > > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he > > has > > > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I > > referred to > > > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma > > and > > > > not > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > <% 40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the > > results > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father > > had > > > > > > promotions > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that > > time. > > > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of > > 9 > > > > or so > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you > > did not > > > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu > > and > > > > Rahu > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as > > you > > > > > > guessed > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati > > yoga > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > > > > instead > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I > > > > say so > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when > > conjunct a > > > > papa > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > > > > trikona > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though > > > > claimed > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) > > and > > > > its > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > > > > > > popularly > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it > > is > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun > > be at > > > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not > > represent > > > > water > > > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent > > too. My > > > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great > > > > and i > > > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative > > > > writing, > > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a > > student, I > > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if > > Sun > > > > were > > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but > > being > > > > in > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is > > also > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic > > and > > > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent > > burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water > > > > bodies, > > > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the > > best > > > > spam > > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - ---- > > ---- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of- > > date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > been > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- ---- > > ---- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------- ---- > > ---- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is > > > > > > radically > > > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > -- > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and > > 1GB > > > > > > storage > > > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- ---- > > -- > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed > > the > > > > all > > > > > > new Security Centre. http://uk.security. > > <http://uk.security.> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- -- > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > > Date: > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its > > > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now. > > http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------- ------- > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 > > > _________ > All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namste Yes I do agree there seems to be some confusion. Millionaire telling from roof tops is not correct analogy. It should be Millionaire telling about his/her success in a matter-of-fact way. In this way no unnecessary sentiments gets attached with his/her expression. > About Krishna and Gita one must understand that unlike what is assumed > by many, one who reveals the knowledge to Arjuna is not Krishna of yadu > vamsha but the Par Brahman. Now this is something new to me! Is it from your secret parampara or out of affection and love towards Kirshna! WHy to unnecessaryly create another controversy? What purpose does it solve? Moreover, how does it matter? If Parabrahma claims then it is not ego and if yadu vansha krishna claims then it is ego, do you want to imply this? I again humbly request you to consider following things: 1) In the Vedic Context King does not have absolute power and he is not considered as of divine inheritance and should take pride in welfare of his subjects. 2) In the western concept of King,the King enjoys the supreme power and divine inheritance and was considered as representative of God. 3) In the Vedic times as well we may find a king who might had acted not in accordance with the scriptures and there may be equal number of kings who followed scriptures. 4) The understanding of the word King by Vedic Rishi should be based on Vedic context of concept of King. 5) Since in the Vedic Contxt King did not have absolute power, it is not proper to say that the concept/term King in Vedic context means Ego. So in a Vedic way the Sun will not indicate Ego. 6) On the other hand, the concept of Ego and King can be equated when interpretated in Western context. So the Sun will indicate Ego. If we agree on this we can then work on Mada,Rahu, and Ego in this context. Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. Prabodh Vekhande Jai Jai Shankar Har Har Shankar , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Prabodh, > > I think there is some confusion here. Do you mean that one who is a > millionaire telling that from roof tops to poor people is speaking the > truth or an example of ego at its worst? If you think this is only > speaking the truth, then we look at what is ego from different perspectives. > > About Krishna and Gita one must understand that unlike what is assumed > by many, one who reveals the knowledge to Arjuna is not Krishna of yadu > vamsha but the Par Brahman. That is why he refers to himself as Krishna > amongst Vrishni Vanshias. He does not go on announcing his greatness at > the beginning. He, first, reveals very deep knowledge to Arjuna. You > then observe Arjuna questioning Krishna and cross questioning him, > unlike what we are, perhaps, supposed to do with the pronouncements of > Lord Rama and King Ashwapati. You then see Lord Krishna telling Arjuna > about the importance of knowledge (of the lord within) and that this way > he can get emancipation. The we see the Lord explaining what is the > essence of his being in impersonal terms. He talks about the Param > Purusha indicating what he is referring to earlier and later at shloka > 10 Adhyaaya 8. Arjuna again requests Lord Krishna about his different > rupas in shloka 18 Adhyaaya 10, saying he is desirous of hearing more > about the Lord's different rupas. after And he is saying what he says in > response to a query from Arjuna about knowing him in his entirety only > for imparting knowledge to Arjuna. If you read Gita in depth, you will > find him equating himself with gambling also. That is not egoistic or > what can be called bragging in modern terms. > > I think it is better if we differentiate between what are the Vedic Laws > and what are perceived to be Vedic laws. That is why I quoted from > Manusmriti. > > We can not selectively take examples of Kings from Vedic times and claim > them to be divine and without blemish and thus Vedas telling that King > can not have ego. We have to take all the Kings of that era, if we want > to convince others that in Vedic times the word King meant one who is > pious and none of his actions can be termed as on account of ego. > > BY the way in both the speeches the Kings are not talking about taking > care of welfare of their subjects but how they have kept the Kingdom > either free of crimes or how they will give everything for the sake of > the Subjects. > > I know this may appear like hairsplitting, but you talk of Vedic > injunction being the King taking care of welfare of his subjects and > therefore King means pious or non egoist or whatever way you want to put > it. And the speeches do not reflect that intent. > > Take care, > Chandrashekhar. > > > > Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namste > > > > > If a King proclaiming his virtues himself is not ego then pray what > > is? > > > It is an accepted practice that one does not broadcast one's virtue > > > oneself. > > > > King proclaiming his virtues himself can not be an example of Ego > > specially it the king is speaking truth. At most it can be treated as > > expression of Pride but certainly not Ego. In this way even Krishna > > will be clubed as Egoist as he has proclaim so many things about > > himself in Geeta. > > > > > I am sure you recognize names of many Vedic Kings there. Do you > > think > > > Parashara was unaware of this and so he must have meant what you > > imply? > > > > > > > I do but the point is not that. As I said earlier that scriptures say > > that King should take Pride in welfare of his subjects and should not > > considered as absolute power. Some kings at vedic times have acted > > otherwise but that is not the point. Moreover there is no point in > > making conjuctures as what parashara thought and whether he was aware > > of the Kings not following scriptures,before writting Jyotish > > Grantha. In my humble opinion we can only comment on meanings of > > Vedic terms like 'King' in vedic context. My example of rama was to > > highlight the fact that there were kings who were ready to do > > anything for the welfare of their subjects. King's dharma was that > > only and Rama followed it. > > > > WIll write about Rahu again once this is resoived! > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > > > Prabodh Vekhande > > Jai Jai Shankar > > Har Har Shankar > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Prabodh, > > > > > > I can understand why you find it difficult to see ego in the > > speeches > > > that you quoted. That precisely is why I said that it is better not > > to > > > bring personalities in discussions on astrology, especially those > > whom > > > one may revere. It is not easy to be dispassionate about their > > actions > > > or speech. > > > > > > If a King proclaiming his virtues himself is not ego then pray what > > is? > > > It is an accepted practice that one does not broadcast one's virtue > > > oneself. I think you will understand the source of the following. > > > @tavan! @v pué;ae yt! £ jaya£ATma àja£#it h, ivàa> àa÷s! twa c£@tdœ > > yae > > > -taR sa Sm&t£A¼na. 9£45 > > > 9.45. He only is a perfect man who consists (of three persons > > united), > > > his wife, himself, and his offspring; thus (says the Veda), and > > > (learned) Brahmanas propound this (maxim) likewise, 'The husband is > > > declared to be one with the wife.' > > > > > > And though as you have quoted Lord Rama saying " I will not mind > > any > > > affliction in abandoning my wife for the good of my subjects". and > > > called it Vedic Dharma. Let me quote Manusmriti on when a King > > should > > > give up his wife. > > > "Aapdw¡ xn< r]edœ daran! r]edœ xnErœ Aip, AaTman< stt< r]edœ darErœ > > Aip > > > xnErœ Aip." 7£213 > > > 7.213. > > > For times of need let him preserve his wealth; at the expense of > > his > > > wealth let him preserve his wife; let him at all events preserve > > himself > > > even by (giving up) his wife and his wealth. > > > > > > So do you think that what was said was more of a boast or otherwise? > > > > > > About the conduct of Kings Manusmriti says: > > > sMmanadœ äaü[ae inTym! %iÖjet iv;adœ #v, Am&tSy£#v c£Aka'œ]edœ > > AvmanSy > > > svRda. 2£162 > > > > > > venae ivnòae Aivnyat! £ n÷;z! c£@v paiwRv>, suda> pEjvnz! c£@v > > sumuoae > > > inimrœ @v c. 7£41 > > > 7.41. > > > Through a want of humility Vena perished, likewise king Nahusha, > > Sudas, > > > the son of Pigavana, Sumukha, and Nemi. > > > > > > I am sure you recognize names of many Vedic Kings there. Do you > > think > > > Parashara was unaware of this and so he must have meant what you > > imply? > > > > > > Think again. It is easy to swear by one sage and think his words > > meant > > > what we want them to mean and it may be entirely different what he > > in > > > fact meant to convey. > > > > > > Endless debate on what is Mada is possible but Koshas, Higher > > Sanskrit > > > Grammar by M.R. Bhat and other sources do indicate that Mada is > > > primarily intoxication state, the reasons being variable. I think > > it is > > > well to remember that rahu delivers results based on the graha > > conjunct > > > or the lord of the Bhava occupied or 7th from itself and even those > > of > > > planets aspecting it ( by extension). No wonder that rahu occupying > > > house of Mars in 5th can cause problems in begetting progeny. > > > > > > If as you think Rahu who is Mada and that it means Pride then why > > Rahu > > > in 5th should create problems in the house of progeny. It should > > give > > > more progeny and with ease as the indications will be that of the > > jataka > > > having pride on account of multiple progeny. Though for the life of > > me I > > > do not understand why the combination given by you indicates that > > rahu > > > is Pride. And that, that is the reason for the person not having > > Progeny > > > or having difficulty in getting progeny. > > > > > > I do not find again, that Parashara is referring to Rahu only being > > in > > > the 5th or as you say Rahu alone in the example given by you. He > > on the > > > other hand does say that rahu has to be in a) 5th house and B) in > > the > > > rasi of Mars or aspected by Mars, for problems in begetting > > progeny. Or > > > have I not been able to understand what you are diriving at when > > you say > > > Parashara giving independent indications of rahu in the example > > given? > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar Ji namste > > > > > > > > >Most of the > > > > > speeches that you quote, if read with due detachment and > > ignoring > > > > the > > > > > personalities making them, would sound most egoist speeches to > > all > > > > and > > > > > sundry. I know saying this would raise > > > > > tempers on the list but truth must prevail. > > > > > > > > Exactly. Truth must prevail. Why a passionate speech by a vedic > > king > > > > should be treated as expression of Ego? If this is ego then every > > > > thing by a king towards his subjects will be ego. > > > > Ofcourse, I am nobody to object your views about that but it > > would be > > > > interesting to find out what excatly you considered as egoist in > > > > those speeches. > > > > > > > > > But one can go on arguing on this aspect to no end and > > bringing in > > > > the > > > > > ideal king as an example of King and conjecturing the Parashara > > > > meant > > > > > that King, while good for argument's sake may not be the right > > way > > > > to > > > > > look at astrological principles. > > > > > > > > I wanted to say that in a Vedic context, King means who takes > > pride > > > > in the welfare of the subjects and will not have absolute power > > like > > > > in western philosophy. Such vedic king may be ideal or may not be > > > > ideal but what vedic scriptures say must be kept in mind. If we > > > > believe that Parashara is vedic Jyotish Pravartak then there is no > > > > question about what he had in mind when he said about Surya being > > > > King. Terms which are Vedic should be treated on the Vedic > > context. > > > > It does not matter as to how many kings were cruel towards > > subjects > > > > in Vedic times what matters is that how scriptures describe the > > > > king.What are his duties and what should be his authority and how > > he > > > > should excercise it? That is why it essential to get in to what > > Vedas > > > > and Manu says about king's duties. If you feel that I am > > > > unnecessarily getting this point, I respectfully request you to > > > > please think on this. > > > > > > > > > Do you think Mada does not mean intoxication or state of > > > > intoxication in > > > > > Sanskrit? > > > > > > > > Mada does mean Intoxication but point is that it as well means > > Pride! > > > > Why to forget this? If Kalyan Verma says that Rahu is associated > > with > > > > Mada then all meanings of Mada will be associated with Rahu. That > > > > will include being intoxicated and as well being into state of > > Pride. > > > > Since rahu as well is understood as 'limitless' so naturally pride > > > > will be limitless and hence will be Ego. > > > > > > > > There is no doubt that Rahu gives the results like Shani or the > > lord > > > > of the house occupied by him but this possibly we apply more, > > when we > > > > are into timing of events. Otherwise why Parashara has said few > > > > things only related to Rahu? Like he says that 5th house Rahu when > > > > aspected by Mars or in the houses of Mars then the native will > > have > > > > problems in the progeny. He could have simply said in one line > > that > > > > Rahu should be Always treated as lord of the house occupied by > > him or > > > > like Shani and that would have ended the references of Rahu. But > > > > parashara clearly gives the independent references of Rahu. > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande > > > > Jai Jai Shankar > > > > Har Har Shankar > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prabodh, > > > > > > > > > > You are not wrong when you say that "So in a Vedic Jyotish way > > the > > > > Sun > > > > > in strength will have PRIDE in being ideal king' for his > > subjects > > > > (other > > > > > Grahas)." But if the King is doing what is only his duty as > > per the > > > > > Vedic Dharma, then pride in such context will be Ego. Most of > > the > > > > > speeches that you quote, if read with due detachment and > > ignoring > > > > the > > > > > personalities making them, would sound most egoist speeches to > > all > > > > and > > > > > sundry. I know saying this would raise > > > > > tempers on the list but truth must prevail. > > > > > > > > > > But one can go on arguing on this aspect to no end and > > bringing in > > > > the > > > > > ideal king as an example of King and conjecturing the Parashara > > > > meant > > > > > that King, while good for argument's sake may not be the right > > way > > > > to > > > > > look at astrological principles. The first pitfall would be > > that > > > > though > > > > > it is fashionable these days to say that all Kings of Vedic > > times > > > > acted > > > > > as they should the fact remains that Puranas and Vedas are > > replete > > > > with > > > > > stories of Kings who were very cruel t their subjects and > > harassed > > > > those > > > > > performing vedic Rituals. When this is pointed out tempers > > flare > > > > which > > > > > is a sure beginning of a rational discussion on the principles > > of > > > > > astrology going awry. > > > > > > > > > > That is why it is better to steer clear of the scriptures when > > > > > discussing astrology, specially on a public list, as the > > scriptures > > > > are > > > > > subject to different interpretations. > > > > > > > > > > Do you think Mada does not mean intoxication or state of > > > > intoxication in > > > > > Sanskrit? I am sure that Unmaada is one of the five arrows of > > > > Madana. > > > > > And that is Mada represented by Rahu. That is what flows > > through > > > > the > > > > > temporal glands of a bull elephant and then the bull elephant > > > > becomes > > > > > uncontrollable like being intoxicated. > > > > > > > > > > Again if you happen to refer to kosha you will find synonyms > > for > > > > the > > > > > five types of pride to be Garva, Abhimaana, Ahankara, Maana > > etc. > > > > While > > > > > in English language Pride has certain connotation, to find > > exact > > > > > synonyms to Sanskrit words is always difficult. > > > > > > > > > > Letting apart these discussions which will more often mislead > > than > > > > solve > > > > > anything, let us at least agree that the sage does say that > > Rahu > > > > and > > > > > Ketu behave as the lords of the house occupied by them or the > > lord > > > > of a > > > > > house that they conjoin. > > > > > > > > > > If we are agreed on this then think why should Rahu, or Ketu > > for > > > > that > > > > > matter, who can not deliver own results but has to depend on > > other > > > > > planets to express itself would, by itself and devoid of other > > > > graha > > > > > combination; be endowed with the quality of Ego by the writer. > > More > > > > so > > > > > why when Rahu when alone is said to give results of Shani > > (Manda > > > > Sama > > > > > Rahu..) as Shani is certainly not connected with ego by any > > stretch > > > > of > > > > > imagination. > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namste > > > > > > > > > > > > It was indeed a great plesure to read your mails regarding > > > > > > interpretations of the astrological text and more specially > > how > > > > > > Sanskrit language words can mislead at times. Now I have some > > > > doubts. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think Pride means Self-respect and Ego means Inflated or > > False > > > > > > Pride. Parashara has attributed the Sun to being Raja or > > King. In > > > > the > > > > > > vedic philosophy we see that Raja was suppose to take care > > of the > > > > > > welfare of his subjects. In the Chandogya Upanishad the king > > > > > > Ashvapati describes his kingdom and his subjects as: "In my > > > > kingdom > > > > > > there is no thief,no coward,nor amiser,no drunked,nor is > > there one > > > > > > who has not taken the vow of worship of the'Fire', no idots, > > nor > > > > men > > > > > > of loose character.Where could therefore be here women > > without > > > > > > morals?"(Chandogya 5-11). We as well see similar references > > in > > > > > > Ramayana regarding RamaRajya. Rama says: I will forsake > > > > everything, > > > > > > affection,compassion,happiness,even my beloved wife Janaki, > > for > > > > the > > > > > > sake of the welfare of my subjects. I will not mind any > > > > affliction in > > > > > > abondoning my wife for the good of my subjects". We find > > many such > > > > > > references in RigVeda and Atherva veda as well. The great > > epic of > > > > > > VedaVyasa as well gives similar attributes to King.Such was > > the > > > > > > concept of the ideal of the institution of kingship, which > > every > > > > > > Vedic king took PRIDE in realising. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the pasasge of Time there came the western counterpart for > > > > Vedic > > > > > > Kings. In the west the mediaeval thinkers invested divine > > > > inheritance > > > > > > on the king who was considered to be the representative of > > God. > > > > The > > > > > > king having received his authority to rule by divine right > > was not > > > > > > answerable to the people and therefore was an absolute in > > his own > > > > > > right.The people had no right to rebel against the king or > > demand > > > > his > > > > > > dethronement. The predominant thought behind that concept > > was to > > > > > > bestow sovereign and absolute powers on the king. This > > naturally > > > > made > > > > > > Kings to have 'inflated pride' or EGO. This western mediaeval > > > > concept > > > > > > of king had great influence in Mediaeval indian kings as > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > In Bharat, however, political thinkers never advocated or > > offered > > > > any > > > > > > abolute power and authority to the king. Kingship was always > > > > regared > > > > > > as subservient to the will and dependent upon the sanction > > of the > > > > > > people and was alwyas answerable to them. So there was no > > concept > > > > > > of 'Inflated or False Pride' in the Vedic King. The king > > being > > > > fully > > > > > > aware that all his authority and power were derived from his > > > > > > subjects would try to look to their welfare. > > > > > > > > > > > > So in a Vedic Jyotish way the Sun in strength will have > > PRIDE in > > > > > > being ideal 'king' for his subjects(other Grahas). Same, if > > seen > > > > in > > > > > > Western way can mean the Sun will have EGO. > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, we see that Western(foreign) cocept of Absolute > > power > > > > with > > > > > > the King is exactly opposite that of Vedic concept of King. > > So in > > > > a > > > > > > vedic way of thinking what is wrong in attributting Rahu to > > > > foreign > > > > > > concept of inflated & false Pride or EGO.? > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, Mada does mean Pride in sanskrit. When attributed to > > > > Rahu, > > > > > > will naturally have the element of falsehood/deceit > > associated > > > > with > > > > > > pride and hence may lead to EGO. Am I wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > > > > > > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande > > > > > > Jai Jai Shankar > > > > > > Har Har Shankar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > > > > > intoxication > > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana > > which > > > > > > means > > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what > > Asteya, > > > > one of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the > > > > dormant or > > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be > > > > misinterpreted > > > > > > if > > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. > > I > > > > would > > > > > > not > > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related > > to > > > > Maa. I > > > > > > have > > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to > > support > > > > your > > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > > > > awakened > > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the > > way > > > > my > > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I > > shall > > > > not > > > > > > repeat > > > > > > > it here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to > > quote > > > > from > > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. > > > > Being > > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to > > translate > > > > it for > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your > > contention. > > > > I > > > > > > would > > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I > > can > > > > > > improve > > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your > > propositions > > > > with > > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by > > pointing > > > > out > > > > > > the > > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu > > > > combinations in > > > > > > two > > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have > > done > > > > so > > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > > > > (greed), > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk > > with > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > > correct > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > > > > facets. As > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > > > > towards good > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > > > > power, is > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > > correct/judicious end > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very > > very > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I > > also > > > > always > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > > > > results, if > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer > > to > > > > all my > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing > > an > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration > > and > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > > > purpose > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > operating > > > > at > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > > young. So > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > > > biography you > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > > > > robust > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms > > with > > > > his > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I > > was > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja > > > > dosha > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring > > our > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > > > > analysis of > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > > > > effects > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two > > have to > > > > be > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but > > only > > > > trying > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > > perhaps > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my > > mail, I > > > > did > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > > > > gave him > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > > beneficent > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did > > its > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's > > chart > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful > > Raj > > > > > > yoga. At > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you > > may > > > > have to > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. > > Think > > > > about > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring > > > > that it > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > > looking > > > > at the > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > > > > away in > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 > > (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > > (4:48:54 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > > (10:43:55 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 > > (5:06:28 am) > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > > (2:29:24 > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd > > lord > > > > from > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > > house of > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations > > are > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, > > > > can give > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > > influence of > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > > > > sure even > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but > > without > > > > the > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > > > wherever he > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > > > > Mars in > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > > > commented on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > > > > planets > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > > previous > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, > > > > and then > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > > said. > > > > Did > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma > > of > > > > left > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > > > following dasa > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from > > > > Moon > > > > > > (AK) & > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is > > with > > > > Sun > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > > > > point to > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu > > can > > > > give > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at > > all, > > > > was > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 > > (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 > > (8:49:14 am) > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > > (12:04:47 > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > > (12:18:02 > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > (11:08:26 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of > > the > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their > > mind > > > > willed > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > > > exaltation > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam > > has > > > > already > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > > Mars/Venus in > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > > through my > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he > > was > > > > editor > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed > > to > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would > > > > all give > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with > > Pancha > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > > (barring > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > principles > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > > > reference to > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > > > > respected > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > > anything > > > > that > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > > > > would be > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I > > would of > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman > > that > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > > while > > > > weak > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > > > > strong > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to > > what > > > > all > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > > > > strong > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that > > their > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars > > in > > > > 5th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn (9H) > > and > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > > debilitated in > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > for "vipareetam > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > > placement > > > > in the > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives > > good > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because > > i > > > > would > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > > shubha > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years > > old, > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > > according > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > > wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read > > the > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > > nature > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > > dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > > borne > > > > in mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the > > 10 > > > > th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > > death, > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in > > south > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > > digbala > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to > > Surya > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of > > the > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > > > promotions and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or > > so as > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not > > have > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > > > > guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > > after > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > > instead of > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say > > so but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > > trikona and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > > > > home that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > > popularly > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at > > its > > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent > > water > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > > giving > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, > > so > > > > why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- ---- > > ---- > > > > ----- > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ ---- > > ---- > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > - > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is > > radically > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- ---- > > - > > > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling > > worldwide > > > > > > with voicemail http://uk.messenger. > > <http://uk.messenger.> > > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>> > > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.> > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ - > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > > Date: > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its > > > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is radically easier > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 > > > _________ > The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, Let's not miss the woods for the trees! I see that you've still not given me the complete list of meanings of the word "mada", nor have you answered my query about ""kulapathänandaikabéjänanä", despite my repeated requests.. I hope Itrans, or Palladio fonts is not the problem again!! Anyway, it doesn't matter now. I agree that unless one wants to transform oneself, it is not possible. Thanks & regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > I think you are exasperated due to me asking you to quote for Kundalini > being inauspicious as was your contention, since you are now asking me > to give some quote to indicate that it is inauspicious in Sahasrara. I > have never held that position so there is no question of me giving such > a quote. If you remember what triggered this discussion, it was my > comment that Kundalini whether dormant or awake is auspicious being > Chiti or Chita Shakti. > > I would not like to get involved in argument over Vidya/avidya here as > you seem to think one is auspicious and other is inauspicious. This is > like saying that Para Vidya is auspicious and therefore apara vidya must > be inauspicious. > I disagree with this concept as it is not supported by rational pramanas > and tarkas. > > As to Viveka and its use, I am sure those who read the correspondence, > so far, can decide better. > > By the way, I prefer to attempt to transform myself than to claim to be > able to transform others. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > I have already explicitly answered you query elsewhere and > > repeatedly about Kundalini being "auspicious" at sahasraara and not > > at "mooladhara" by quoting from shastras, giving examples etc. I > > also gave copious quotes about vidya/avidya, sthoola/sookshma > > etc...infact everything you wanted. I am sure all those are enough > > to convince someone who genuinely wants to understand. > > > > May i remind you that it's you who had sought these clarifications > > and I am surprised that suddenly you should find that we have > > strayed from the original thread, which, ofcourse, is a fact:--)) > > > > Btw, can you quote any shloka which says that kundalini is > > auspicious at mooladhara and not at sahasraara? The shloka you gave > > describes the stature/nature of Mother as moolaprakriti, but does it > > say anywhere that kundalini at mooladhara is auspicious? If you > > think that "gyaana" means "auspicious", are you not conjecturing? > > Yet when I give quotes which expressly use terms as "mangalam" > > and "shubham" you inexplicably find them irrelevant!! > > > > I also see that you have neither commented about my understanding > > of "triramani" nor have you given your understanding of the > > phrase "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä"? > > > > I have often heard you say that one must use "viveka"....perhaps it > > means that one must use it selectively or only when it suits one and > > not dispassionately and at all times. > > > > But I do want to use mine now, and i plainly see that there's no > > point in continuing these discussions, and no real > > learning/understanding accrues. I also sadly conclude that one can > > endlessly wax eloquent about "humility and learning lessons of life" > > but practising them in real life is a different story all together. > > > > As i said earlier, one may have accumulated a lot of knowledge, but > > unless that knowledge touches one and transforms one, what's the use? > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > The dictionaries give these meaning of Aanana. > > > n. the mouth > > > the face R. Ragh. &c. > > > entrance , door L. > > > > > > Do you find head mentioned here? If we want to go into why Ravana > > was > > > called Dashanana and not Dashasheersha, the reason would consume > > much > > > time especially if we go on from topic to topic, leaving the > > original > > > thread and not adding to our knowledge in any manner. > > > > > > I think you are deviating from my original comment, to which > > different > > > arguments have so far been presented by you and many others. > > > > > > If I remember right, I said that Kundalini is auspicious whether > > dormant > > > or awakened and you and a few more thought otherwise. I have not > > seen > > > anything in support of the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious, > > so far. > > > Do you not think saying that Mother is gyani in dormant state and > > then > > > saying she is inauspicious a bit misleading? If we accept that > > then > > > Gyana will be inauspicious. All texts will be inauspicious and so > > will > > > all the statues of the Gods. I do not think that is the right > > position > > > per scriptures. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > When we refer to Ravana as "Dashaanana" does that mean he had > > only > > > > 10 faces and not 10 heads? What about other synonyms for Ravana > > like > > > > dashakantha, dasagreeva etc? Or when we talk of "sahasra seersha > > > > purushaH " are we talking only of heads without faces? > > > > > > > > :--)) > > > > > > > > According to me, "triramani" suggests the Beautiful One who is > > > > embodiment of /resides in/revels in....gunatraya, roopatraya, > > > > avasthaatraya, maatritraya, bhoopuratraya, mandalatraya, > > konatraya, > > > > rekhaatraya, mantratraya, kootatraya, triputi etc. > > > > > > > > I hope you realize that here we are talking of one who has > > > > sthoola/sookshma/karana sareeras as well as trigunas. Please > > > > contrast this to "sphutashivashaktisamaagama beejankuraroopiNi > > > > paraashaktiH aNutharasookshmaanuttaravimarshalipi > > > > lakshyavigrahaabhaathi"-which means that union of shiva- shakti is > > > > like beejankura. At this juncture Paraashakti is so subtle as > > not to > > > > be perceived at all. She's like akasha and exists only as > > > > akshara/mantra swaroopini. Vagbhava koota! > > > > > > > > I refer you to the "oordhwamoolamadhaH shaakham ashwatham" > > example I > > > > quoted earlier, in this respect. What's is seen at the lower > > level > > > > is physical/gunamayi (sthoola/gross) manifestation, while at the > > > > higher level it's the unseen roots/beeja (sookshma/subtle) > > > > manifestation. Both belong to the same tree, but there is a > > > > difference in manifestation. > > > > > > > > Mother is definitely "gyaanini" at all times. But at Mooladhara > > the > > > > gyaana is only inert/potential. Suppose you have a great life- > > > > changing book (kundalini) in your house (body), shut up in a room > > > > (mooladhara). You do have the book, the potential to actuate > > > > yourself, but unless you open the room, read the book, allow that > > > > great wisdom to touch you and transform you, do you reap any > > benefit > > > > from its presence? > > > > > > > > Now, can I please have your understanding > > > > of "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä"? > > > > > > > > Perhaps we are unfairly imposing on others' time. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > I hope you do not want me to translate Aanana as head? I do > > not > > > > see you > > > > > disputing Kundalini in Mulaadhara being called Triramani, > > GYaanini > > > > etc. > > > > > though you think she is inauspicious there. May I know why? I > > hope > > > > you > > > > > do not dispute Lord Krishna's opinion on GYana. > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for sharing the nice shloka with us. I am sorry that > > I had > > > > > > indeed overlooked responding to it. In this regard, I have > > > > already > > > > > > given my explanation of what's auspicious and what's not, > > based > > > > on > > > > > > Soubhagya Bhaskaram. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please explain to me how you understand the > > > > > > phrase "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä". > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same > > > > place, > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments > > are > > > > > > acceptable. > > > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support of your > > > > argument > > > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I > > > > sent > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head > > > > come...in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other > > koota > > > > > > defined > > > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you > > imply > > > > that > > > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology > > > > mappings > > > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple > > > > principle in > > > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless > > you are > > > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to > > > > confuse > > > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended > > > > that "bisa > > > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at > > > > Mooladhara > > > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately > > after "mooladharaika > > > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python > > at > > > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at > > > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni > > > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only > > > > from > > > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is > > ignited > > > > only > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a > > group of > > > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the > > vacha. > > > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect > > the > > > > > > throat > > > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her > > > > principal > > > > > > abode > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if > > you > > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are > > > > free to > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja > > is > > > > most > > > > > > dear > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the > > > > > > reference). > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini > > means > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly > > does > > > > not > > > > > > mean > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala > > Tantra. > > > > Do > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the > > > > yamalas, i > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava > > > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and > > talks of > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe > > utsave > > > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa > > yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" > > is > > > > the > > > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, > > > > let me > > > > > > quote > > > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. > > uttishtatha. > > > > maa > > > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the > > > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on > > Kundalini. > > > > It's > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), > > lobha > > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply > > among > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" > > and > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of > > both > > > > > > facets. > > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be > > routed > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the > > same? > > > > The > > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, > > is > > > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, > > wisdom > > > > and > > > > > > power, > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is > > very > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and > > krura. I > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give > > malefic > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can > > > > refer > > > > > > to all > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or > > > > losing > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > > > > exploration > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I > > > > see no > > > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > > > > young. > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read > > Swamiji's > > > > > > biography > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of > > > > apparent > > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart > > confirms > > > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not > > know > > > > I > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there > > is a > > > > Kuja > > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not > > > > bring > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into > > astrological > > > > > > analysis > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are > > on > > > > the > > > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The > > two > > > > have > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an > > event but > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in > > that > > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read > > my > > > > mail, > > > > > > I did > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only > > that > > > > it > > > > > > gave > > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and > > always > > > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the > > topic, > > > > did > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > > > > Vivekananda's > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a > > > > powerful > > > > > > Raj > > > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, > > > > you may > > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as > > Mahakrura. > > > > Think > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before > > > > declaring > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu > > and > > > > > > looking at > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he > > > > passed > > > > > > away > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02- 10 > > > > (3:59:13 > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903- 08-27 > > > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09- 12 > > > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07- 07 > > > > (5:06:28 > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902- 07-06 > > > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 > > > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is > > the > > > > 2nd > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in > > the > > > > > > house of > > > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the > > 2nd > > > > lord > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > > > > significations > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th > > > > house, > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > > > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th > > house? I > > > > am > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:-- )) > > but > > > > > > without the > > > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he > > created > > > > > > wherever > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the > > 7th > > > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the > > > > strong > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have > > not > > > > > > commented > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava > > that > > > > the > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated > > in > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great > > > > people, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of > > what I > > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant > > > > sarcoma > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his > > > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine > > the > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd > > lord > > > > from > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, > > rahu > > > > is > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of > > > > which > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and > > > > ketu > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, > > if at > > > > > > all, was > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02- 03 > > > > (2:05:32 > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02- 21 > > > > (8:49:14 > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05- 18 > > > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04- 20 > > > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950- 04-14 > > > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > > (12:47:04 > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the > > dasa > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think > > their > > > > mind > > > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the > > above > > > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in > > my > > > > next > > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as > > a > > > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even > > when in > > > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane > > > > smritam has > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > > > > Mars/Venus > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > > > > through > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and > > that > > > > he > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > > > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving > > > > P.M. > > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > > > > attributed > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine > > they > > > > would > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all > > with > > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of > > India > > > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > > > > > principles > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using > > > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving > > the > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old > > classic > > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to > > accept > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. > > Raman, > > > > it > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka > > I > > > > would > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. > > > > Raman > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good > > results, > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also > > disagree > > > > about > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it > > contrary to > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I > > find > > > > that > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor > > that > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and > > > > mars > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted > > Saturn > > > > (9H) > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > > > > debilitated > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > > > > > > placement in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn > > gives > > > > good > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is > > > > because i > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% > > 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, > > that > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and > > the > > > > > > shubha > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak > > and > > > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 > > years > > > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't > > notice > > > > the > > > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the > > difference > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is > > > > giving > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, > > then > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, > > give > > > > bad > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong > > planets, > > > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly > > combust > > > > and > > > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according > > > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher > > shadbala > > > > is > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to > > > > read the > > > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, > > the > > > > > > nature > > > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because > > Parashurama > > > > would > > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. > > > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to > > be > > > > > > borne in > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > > > > Duryodhana, > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from > > 8th > > > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural > > zodiac, > > > > the > > > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord > > of > > > > > > death, > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the > > > > Rudras > > > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun > > resides in > > > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he > > has > > > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I > > referred to > > > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma > > and > > > > not > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > <% 40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the > > results > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father > > had > > > > > > promotions > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that > > time. > > > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of > > 9 > > > > or so > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you > > did not > > > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu > > and > > > > Rahu > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as > > you > > > > > > guessed > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati > > yoga > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > > > > instead > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I > > > > say so > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when > > conjunct a > > > > papa > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > > > > trikona > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though > > > > claimed > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) > > and > > > > its > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > > > > > > popularly > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it > > is > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun > > be at > > > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not > > represent > > > > water > > > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent > > too. My > > > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great > > > > and i > > > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative > > > > writing, > > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a > > student, I > > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if > > Sun > > > > were > > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but > > being > > > > in > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is > > also > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic > > and > > > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent > > burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water > > > > bodies, > > > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the > > best > > > > spam > > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - ---- > > ---- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of- > > date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > been > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- ---- > > ---- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------- ---- > > ---- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is > > > > > > radically > > > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > -- > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and > > 1GB > > > > > > storage > > > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- ---- > > -- > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed > > the > > > > all > > > > > > new Security Centre. http://uk.security. > > <http://uk.security.> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- -- > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > > Date: > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our > > SpamGuard > > > > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage > > with All New Mail. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------- ------- > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 > > > _________ > Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Mail. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Dear Prabodh, Look at it whichever way you want to yet it is still bragging as you are telling this to those with less power than you. No controversy here. It is the spiritual meaning that is concerned. No secret Parampara here. Knowledge can not be secret, as my father used to say, as it is Jyoti and Jyoti is never secret. Lord Krishna is indeed my Ideal Purusha that should be followed in Kaliyuga. Not that he should not have been followed in any other yuga, only that in Kaliyuga one face most of the challenges, and dilemmas, that the Lord faced and his life and preaching tells us how to deal with them. Or at least I think so, with my limited intelligence. Read what the lord says that he is the Pranav (Omkar) and he tells at the time of Vishwarupa darshan that Arjuna can not see him with his human eyes (eyesight), which can see only his form as Krisha, and imparts the special sight to Arjuna. It is obvious that if Lord Krishna of the Vrishni vamsha was the one stating about his mature, Arjuna was anyway capable of looking at him with human sight. Lord Krishna was one of the incarnation of the unborn and endless one. Arjuna also talks of what he is looking at as being the Parama Akshar/ Para Brahman. On being asked by Arjuna as to what he is looking at the Lord says that He is in the Maha Kala form, at that point of time, who is intent on annihilation of (large) number of people. I am assure you will see that this is very clearly stated in the Bhagvadgita and one has only to look for it. Your contention about Vedic concept of King is not in dispute here. At the same time it may not be correct to infer that the Sages meant King as in Vedic times when they gave Kingship to Surya. If my memory serves me right, the venerated Parashara says the Yudhishthira has a certain yoga at the point of time of telling the Parashari to Maitreya, indicating he lived in the times of Dhritarashtra and Duryodhana when not many Kings covered themselves in the Vedic meaning of the terms. So the contention that Sages meant the Vedic concept of King may not be right. It may also be well to remember that even the King of Devas did not exactly fit in with the Vedic concept of Kings that you indicate. Let us not forget that. Take care, Chandrashekhar. Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namste > > Yes I do agree there seems to be some confusion. Millionaire telling > from roof tops is not correct analogy. It should be Millionaire > telling about his/her success in a matter-of-fact way. In this way no > unnecessary sentiments gets attached with his/her expression. > > > About Krishna and Gita one must understand that unlike what is > assumed > > by many, one who reveals the knowledge to Arjuna is not Krishna of > yadu > > vamsha but the Par Brahman. > > Now this is something new to me! Is it from your secret parampara or > out of affection and love towards Kirshna! > > WHy to unnecessaryly create another controversy? What purpose does it > solve? Moreover, how does it matter? If Parabrahma claims then it is > not ego and if yadu vansha krishna claims then it is ego, do you want > to imply this? > > I again humbly request you to consider following things: > 1) In the Vedic Context King does not have absolute power and he is > not considered as of divine inheritance and should take pride in > welfare of his subjects. > 2) In the western concept of King,the King enjoys the supreme power > and divine inheritance and was considered as representative of God. > 3) In the Vedic times as well we may find a king who might had acted > not in accordance with the scriptures and there may be equal number > of kings who followed scriptures. > 4) The understanding of the word King by Vedic Rishi should be based > on Vedic context of concept of King. > 5) Since in the Vedic Contxt King did not have absolute power, it is > not proper to say that the concept/term King in Vedic context means > Ego. So in a Vedic way the Sun will not indicate Ego. > 6) On the other hand, the concept of Ego and King can be equated when > interpretated in Western context. So the Sun will indicate Ego. > > If we agree on this we can then work on Mada,Rahu, and Ego in this > context. > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > Prabodh Vekhande > Jai Jai Shankar > Har Har Shankar > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Prabodh, > > > > I think there is some confusion here. Do you mean that one who is a > > millionaire telling that from roof tops to poor people is speaking > the > > truth or an example of ego at its worst? If you think this is only > > speaking the truth, then we look at what is ego from different > perspectives. > > > > About Krishna and Gita one must understand that unlike what is > assumed > > by many, one who reveals the knowledge to Arjuna is not Krishna of > yadu > > vamsha but the Par Brahman. That is why he refers to himself as > Krishna > > amongst Vrishni Vanshias. He does not go on announcing his > greatness at > > the beginning. He, first, reveals very deep knowledge to Arjuna. > You > > then observe Arjuna questioning Krishna and cross questioning him, > > unlike what we are, perhaps, supposed to do with the pronouncements > of > > Lord Rama and King Ashwapati. You then see Lord Krishna telling > Arjuna > > about the importance of knowledge (of the lord within) and that > this way > > he can get emancipation. The we see the Lord explaining what is the > > essence of his being in impersonal terms. He talks about the Param > > Purusha indicating what he is referring to earlier and later at > shloka > > 10 Adhyaaya 8. Arjuna again requests Lord Krishna about his > different > > rupas in shloka 18 Adhyaaya 10, saying he is desirous of hearing > more > > about the Lord's different rupas. after And he is saying what he > says in > > response to a query from Arjuna about knowing him in his entirety > only > > for imparting knowledge to Arjuna. If you read Gita in depth, you > will > > find him equating himself with gambling also. That is not egoistic > or > > what can be called bragging in modern terms. > > > > I think it is better if we differentiate between what are the Vedic > Laws > > and what are perceived to be Vedic laws. That is why I quoted from > > Manusmriti. > > > > We can not selectively take examples of Kings from Vedic times and > claim > > them to be divine and without blemish and thus Vedas telling that > King > > can not have ego. We have to take all the Kings of that era, if we > want > > to convince others that in Vedic times the word King meant one who > is > > pious and none of his actions can be termed as on account of ego. > > > > BY the way in both the speeches the Kings are not talking about > taking > > care of welfare of their subjects but how they have kept the > Kingdom > > either free of crimes or how they will give everything for the sake > of > > the Subjects. > > > > I know this may appear like hairsplitting, but you talk of Vedic > > injunction being the King taking care of welfare of his subjects > and > > therefore King means pious or non egoist or whatever way you want > to put > > it. And the speeches do not reflect that intent. > > > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namste > > > > > > > If a King proclaiming his virtues himself is not ego then pray > what > > > is? > > > > It is an accepted practice that one does not broadcast one's > virtue > > > > oneself. > > > > > > King proclaiming his virtues himself can not be an example of Ego > > > specially it the king is speaking truth. At most it can be > treated as > > > expression of Pride but certainly not Ego. In this way even > Krishna > > > will be clubed as Egoist as he has proclaim so many things about > > > himself in Geeta. > > > > > > > I am sure you recognize names of many Vedic Kings there. Do you > > > think > > > > Parashara was unaware of this and so he must have meant what > you > > > imply? > > > > > > > > > > I do but the point is not that. As I said earlier that scriptures > say > > > that King should take Pride in welfare of his subjects and should > not > > > considered as absolute power. Some kings at vedic times have acted > > > otherwise but that is not the point. Moreover there is no point in > > > making conjuctures as what parashara thought and whether he was > aware > > > of the Kings not following scriptures,before writting Jyotish > > > Grantha. In my humble opinion we can only comment on meanings of > > > Vedic terms like 'King' in vedic context. My example of rama was > to > > > highlight the fact that there were kings who were ready to do > > > anything for the welfare of their subjects. King's dharma was that > > > only and Rama followed it. > > > > > > WIll write about Rahu again once this is resoived! > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande > > > Jai Jai Shankar > > > Har Har Shankar > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Prabodh, > > > > > > > > I can understand why you find it difficult to see ego in the > > > speeches > > > > that you quoted. That precisely is why I said that it is > better not > > > to > > > > bring personalities in discussions on astrology, especially > those > > > whom > > > > one may revere. It is not easy to be dispassionate about their > > > actions > > > > or speech. > > > > > > > > If a King proclaiming his virtues himself is not ego then pray > what > > > is? > > > > It is an accepted practice that one does not broadcast one's > virtue > > > > oneself. I think you will understand the source of the > following. > > > > @tavan! @v pué;ae yt! £ jaya£ATma àja£#it h, ivàa> àa÷s! twa > c£@tdoe > > > yae > > > > -taR sa Sm&t£A¼na. 9£45 > > > > 9.45. He only is a perfect man who consists (of three persons > > > united), > > > > his wife, himself, and his offspring; thus (says the Veda), and > > > > (learned) Brahmanas propound this (maxim) likewise, 'The > husband is > > > > declared to be one with the wife.' > > > > > > > > And though as you have quoted Lord Rama saying " I will not > mind > > > any > > > > affliction in abandoning my wife for the good of my subjects". > and > > > > called it Vedic Dharma. Let me quote Manusmriti on when a King > > > should > > > > give up his wife. > > > > "Aapdw¡ xn< r]edoe daran! r]edoe xnEroe Aip, AaTman< stt< r]edoe > darEroe > > > Aip > > > > xnEroe Aip." 7£213 > > > > 7.213. > > > > For times of need let him preserve his wealth; at the expense > of > > > his > > > > wealth let him preserve his wife; let him at all events > preserve > > > himself > > > > even by (giving up) his wife and his wealth. > > > > > > > > So do you think that what was said was more of a boast or > otherwise? > > > > > > > > About the conduct of Kings Manusmriti says: > > > > sMmanadoe äaü[ae inTym! %iÖjet iv;adoe #v, Am&tSy£#v c£Aka'oe]edoe > > > AvmanSy > > > > svRda. 2£162 > > > > > > > > venae ivnòae Aivnyat! £ n÷;z! c£@v paiwRv>, suda> pEjvnz! c£@v > > > sumuoae > > > > inimroe @v c. 7£41 > > > > 7.41. > > > > Through a want of humility Vena perished, likewise king > Nahusha, > > > Sudas, > > > > the son of Pigavana, Sumukha, and Nemi. > > > > > > > > I am sure you recognize names of many Vedic Kings there. Do you > > > think > > > > Parashara was unaware of this and so he must have meant what > you > > > imply? > > > > > > > > Think again. It is easy to swear by one sage and think his > words > > > meant > > > > what we want them to mean and it may be entirely different > what he > > > in > > > > fact meant to convey. > > > > > > > > Endless debate on what is Mada is possible but Koshas, Higher > > > Sanskrit > > > > Grammar by M.R. Bhat and other sources do indicate that Mada is > > > > primarily intoxication state, the reasons being variable. I > think > > > it is > > > > well to remember that rahu delivers results based on the graha > > > conjunct > > > > or the lord of the Bhava occupied or 7th from itself and even > those > > > of > > > > planets aspecting it ( by extension). No wonder that rahu > occupying > > > > house of Mars in 5th can cause problems in begetting progeny. > > > > > > > > If as you think Rahu who is Mada and that it means Pride then > why > > > Rahu > > > > in 5th should create problems in the house of progeny. It > should > > > give > > > > more progeny and with ease as the indications will be that of > the > > > jataka > > > > having pride on account of multiple progeny. Though for the > life of > > > me I > > > > do not understand why the combination given by you indicates > that > > > rahu > > > > is Pride. And that, that is the reason for the person not > having > > > Progeny > > > > or having difficulty in getting progeny. > > > > > > > > I do not find again, that Parashara is referring to Rahu only > being > > > in > > > > the 5th or as you say Rahu alone in the example given by you. > He > > > on the > > > > other hand does say that rahu has to be in a) 5th house and B) > in > > > the > > > > rasi of Mars or aspected by Mars, for problems in begetting > > > progeny. Or > > > > have I not been able to understand what you are diriving at > when > > > you say > > > > Parashara giving independent indications of rahu in the example > > > given? > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar Ji namste > > > > > > > > > > >Most of the > > > > > > speeches that you quote, if read with due detachment and > > > ignoring > > > > > the > > > > > > personalities making them, would sound most egoist > speeches to > > > all > > > > > and > > > > > > sundry. I know saying this would raise > > > > > > tempers on the list but truth must prevail. > > > > > > > > > > Exactly. Truth must prevail. Why a passionate speech by a > vedic > > > king > > > > > should be treated as expression of Ego? If this is ego then > every > > > > > thing by a king towards his subjects will be ego. > > > > > Ofcourse, I am nobody to object your views about that but it > > > would be > > > > > interesting to find out what excatly you considered as > egoist in > > > > > those speeches. > > > > > > > > > > > But one can go on arguing on this aspect to no end and > > > bringing in > > > > > the > > > > > > ideal king as an example of King and conjecturing the > Parashara > > > > > meant > > > > > > that King, while good for argument's sake may not be the > right > > > way > > > > > to > > > > > > look at astrological principles. > > > > > > > > > > I wanted to say that in a Vedic context, King means who takes > > > pride > > > > > in the welfare of the subjects and will not have absolute > power > > > like > > > > > in western philosophy. Such vedic king may be ideal or may > not be > > > > > ideal but what vedic scriptures say must be kept in mind. If > we > > > > > believe that Parashara is vedic Jyotish Pravartak then there > is no > > > > > question about what he had in mind when he said about Surya > being > > > > > King. Terms which are Vedic should be treated on the Vedic > > > context. > > > > > It does not matter as to how many kings were cruel towards > > > subjects > > > > > in Vedic times what matters is that how scriptures describe > the > > > > > king.What are his duties and what should be his authority > and how > > > he > > > > > should excercise it? That is why it essential to get in to > what > > > Vedas > > > > > and Manu says about king's duties. If you feel that I am > > > > > unnecessarily getting this point, I respectfully request you > to > > > > > please think on this. > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think Mada does not mean intoxication or state of > > > > > intoxication in > > > > > > Sanskrit? > > > > > > > > > > Mada does mean Intoxication but point is that it as well > means > > > Pride! > > > > > Why to forget this? If Kalyan Verma says that Rahu is > associated > > > with > > > > > Mada then all meanings of Mada will be associated with Rahu. > That > > > > > will include being intoxicated and as well being into state > of > > > Pride. > > > > > Since rahu as well is understood as 'limitless' so naturally > pride > > > > > will be limitless and hence will be Ego. > > > > > > > > > > There is no doubt that Rahu gives the results like Shani or > the > > > lord > > > > > of the house occupied by him but this possibly we apply more, > > > when we > > > > > are into timing of events. Otherwise why Parashara has said > few > > > > > things only related to Rahu? Like he says that 5th house > Rahu when > > > > > aspected by Mars or in the houses of Mars then the native > will > > > have > > > > > problems in the progeny. He could have simply said in one > line > > > that > > > > > Rahu should be Always treated as lord of the house occupied > by > > > him or > > > > > like Shani and that would have ended the references of Rahu. > But > > > > > parashara clearly gives the independent references of Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > > > > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande > > > > > Jai Jai Shankar > > > > > Har Har Shankar > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prabodh, > > > > > > > > > > > > You are not wrong when you say that "So in a Vedic Jyotish > way > > > the > > > > > Sun > > > > > > in strength will have PRIDE in being ideal king' for his > > > subjects > > > > > (other > > > > > > Grahas)." But if the King is doing what is only his duty as > > > per the > > > > > > Vedic Dharma, then pride in such context will be Ego. Most > of > > > the > > > > > > speeches that you quote, if read with due detachment and > > > ignoring > > > > > the > > > > > > personalities making them, would sound most egoist > speeches to > > > all > > > > > and > > > > > > sundry. I know saying this would raise > > > > > > tempers on the list but truth must prevail. > > > > > > > > > > > > But one can go on arguing on this aspect to no end and > > > bringing in > > > > > the > > > > > > ideal king as an example of King and conjecturing the > Parashara > > > > > meant > > > > > > that King, while good for argument's sake may not be the > right > > > way > > > > > to > > > > > > look at astrological principles. The first pitfall would be > > > that > > > > > though > > > > > > it is fashionable these days to say that all Kings of Vedic > > > times > > > > > acted > > > > > > as they should the fact remains that Puranas and Vedas are > > > replete > > > > > with > > > > > > stories of Kings who were very cruel t their subjects and > > > harassed > > > > > those > > > > > > performing vedic Rituals. When this is pointed out tempers > > > flare > > > > > which > > > > > > is a sure beginning of a rational discussion on the > principles > > > of > > > > > > astrology going awry. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is why it is better to steer clear of the scriptures > when > > > > > > discussing astrology, specially on a public list, as the > > > scriptures > > > > > are > > > > > > subject to different interpretations. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think Mada does not mean intoxication or state of > > > > > intoxication in > > > > > > Sanskrit? I am sure that Unmaada is one of the five arrows > of > > > > > Madana. > > > > > > And that is Mada represented by Rahu. That is what flows > > > through > > > > > the > > > > > > temporal glands of a bull elephant and then the bull > elephant > > > > > becomes > > > > > > uncontrollable like being intoxicated. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again if you happen to refer to kosha you will find > synonyms > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > five types of pride to be Garva, Abhimaana, Ahankara, Maana > > > etc. > > > > > While > > > > > > in English language Pride has certain connotation, to find > > > exact > > > > > > synonyms to Sanskrit words is always difficult. > > > > > > > > > > > > Letting apart these discussions which will more often > mislead > > > than > > > > > solve > > > > > > anything, let us at least agree that the sage does say that > > > Rahu > > > > > and > > > > > > Ketu behave as the lords of the house occupied by them or > the > > > lord > > > > > of a > > > > > > house that they conjoin. > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are agreed on this then think why should Rahu, or > Ketu > > > for > > > > > that > > > > > > matter, who can not deliver own results but has to depend > on > > > other > > > > > > planets to express itself would, by itself and devoid of > other > > > > > graha > > > > > > combination; be endowed with the quality of Ego by the > writer. > > > More > > > > > so > > > > > > why when Rahu when alone is said to give results of Shani > > > (Manda > > > > > Sama > > > > > > Rahu..) as Shani is certainly not connected with ego by any > > > stretch > > > > > of > > > > > > imagination. > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namste > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was indeed a great plesure to read your mails > regarding > > > > > > > interpretations of the astrological text and more > specially > > > how > > > > > > > Sanskrit language words can mislead at times. Now I have > some > > > > > doubts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think Pride means Self-respect and Ego means Inflated > or > > > False > > > > > > > Pride. Parashara has attributed the Sun to being Raja or > > > King. In > > > > > the > > > > > > > vedic philosophy we see that Raja was suppose to take > care > > > of the > > > > > > > welfare of his subjects. In the Chandogya Upanishad the > king > > > > > > > Ashvapati describes his kingdom and his subjects as: "In > my > > > > > kingdom > > > > > > > there is no thief,no coward,nor amiser,no drunked,nor is > > > there one > > > > > > > who has not taken the vow of worship of the'Fire', no > idots, > > > nor > > > > > men > > > > > > > of loose character.Where could therefore be here women > > > without > > > > > > > morals?"(Chandogya 5-11). We as well see similar > references > > > in > > > > > > > Ramayana regarding RamaRajya. Rama says: I will forsake > > > > > everything, > > > > > > > affection,compassion,happiness,even my beloved wife > Janaki, > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > > sake of the welfare of my subjects. I will not mind any > > > > > affliction in > > > > > > > abondoning my wife for the good of my subjects". We find > > > many such > > > > > > > references in RigVeda and Atherva veda as well. The great > > > epic of > > > > > > > VedaVyasa as well gives similar attributes to King.Such > was > > > the > > > > > > > concept of the ideal of the institution of kingship, > which > > > every > > > > > > > Vedic king took PRIDE in realising. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the pasasge of Time there came the western > counterpart for > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > Kings. In the west the mediaeval thinkers invested divine > > > > > inheritance > > > > > > > on the king who was considered to be the representative > of > > > God. > > > > > The > > > > > > > king having received his authority to rule by divine > right > > > was not > > > > > > > answerable to the people and therefore was an absolute in > > > his own > > > > > > > right.The people had no right to rebel against the king > or > > > demand > > > > > his > > > > > > > dethronement. The predominant thought behind that concept > > > was to > > > > > > > bestow sovereign and absolute powers on the king. This > > > naturally > > > > > made > > > > > > > Kings to have 'inflated pride' or EGO. This western > mediaeval > > > > > concept > > > > > > > of king had great influence in Mediaeval indian kings as > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Bharat, however, political thinkers never advocated or > > > offered > > > > > any > > > > > > > abolute power and authority to the king. Kingship was > always > > > > > regared > > > > > > > as subservient to the will and dependent upon the > sanction > > > of the > > > > > > > people and was alwyas answerable to them. So there was no > > > concept > > > > > > > of 'Inflated or False Pride' in the Vedic King. The king > > > being > > > > > fully > > > > > > > aware that all his authority and power were derived from > his > > > > > > > subjects would try to look to their welfare. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So in a Vedic Jyotish way the Sun in strength will have > > > PRIDE in > > > > > > > being ideal 'king' for his subjects(other Grahas). Same, > if > > > seen > > > > > in > > > > > > > Western way can mean the Sun will have EGO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, we see that Western(foreign) cocept of Absolute > > > power > > > > > with > > > > > > > the King is exactly opposite that of Vedic concept of > King. > > > So in > > > > > a > > > > > > > vedic way of thinking what is wrong in attributting Rahu > to > > > > > foreign > > > > > > > concept of inflated & false Pride or EGO.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, Mada does mean Pride in sanskrit. When > attributed to > > > > > Rahu, > > > > > > > will naturally have the element of falsehood/deceit > > > associated > > > > > with > > > > > > > pride and hence may lead to EGO. Am I wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande > > > > > > > Jai Jai Shankar > > > > > > > Har Har Shankar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does > mean > > > > > > > intoxication > > > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to > kaamana > > > which > > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what > > > Asteya, > > > > > one of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of > the > > > > > dormant or > > > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be > > > > > misinterpreted > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any > purpose. > > > I > > > > > would > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya > related > > > to > > > > > Maa. I > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to > > > support > > > > > your > > > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and > the > > > > > awakened > > > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted > the > > > way > > > > > my > > > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I > > > shall > > > > > not > > > > > > > repeat > > > > > > > > it here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to > > > quote > > > > > from > > > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant > Kundalini. > > > > > Being > > > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to > > > translate > > > > > it for > > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k...{flI devta > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k...lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your > > > contention. > > > > > I > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so > that I > > > can > > > > > > > improve > > > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your > > > propositions > > > > > with > > > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by > > > pointing > > > > > out > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu > > > > > combinations in > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I > have > > > done > > > > > so > > > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among > the > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > intoxicated/drunk > > > with > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > > > correct > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > > > > > facets. As > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > > > > > towards good > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? > The > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom > and > > > > > power, is > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > > > correct/judicious end > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is > very > > > very > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. > I > > > also > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > > > > > results, if > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can > refer > > > to > > > > > all my > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or > losing > > > an > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > exploration > > > and > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I > see no > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > > operating > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > > > young. So > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > > > > biography you > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of > apparent > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart > confirms > > > with > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not > know I > > > was > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a > Kuja > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not > bring > > > our > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > > > > > analysis of > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on > the > > > > > effects > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two > > > have to > > > > > be > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event > but > > > only > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > > > perhaps > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my > > > mail, I > > > > > did > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only > that it > > > > > gave him > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and > always > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, > did > > > its > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > Vivekananda's > > > chart > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a > powerful > > > Raj > > > > > > > yoga. At > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, > you > > > may > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. > > > Think > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before > declaring > > > > > that it > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > > > looking > > > > > at the > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he > passed > > > > > away in > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 > > > (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > > > (4:48:54 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > > > (10:43:55 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 > > > (5:06:28 am) > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > > > (2:29:24 > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 > (1:27:03 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the > 2nd > > > lord > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > > > house of > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd > lord > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > significations > > > are > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th > house, > > > > > can give > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > > > influence of > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? > I am > > > > > sure even > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > > > > wherever he > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the > strong > > > > > Mars in > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > > > > commented on > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that > the > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > > > previous > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great > people, > > > > > and then > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what > I > > > said. > > > > > Did > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant > sarcoma > > > of > > > > > left > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his > chart, in > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > > > > following dasa > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord > from > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > (AK) & > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu > is > > > with > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of > which > > > > > point to > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and > ketu > > > can > > > > > give > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at > > > all, > > > > > was > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 > > > (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 > > > (8:49:14 am) > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > > > (12:04:47 > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > > > (12:18:02 > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > (12:47:04 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the > dasa of > > > the > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their > > > mind > > > > > willed > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my > next > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane > smritam > > > has > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > > > Mars/Venus in > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > > > through my > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that > he > > > was > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving > P.M. > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > attributed > > > to > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they > would > > > > > all give > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > > > (barring > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > > principles > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > > > > reference to > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > > > anything > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, > it > > > > > would be > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I > > > would of > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. > Raman > > > that > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good > results, > > > while > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree > about > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary > to > > > what > > > > > all > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find > that > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that > > > their > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and > mars > > > in > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn > (9H) > > > and > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > > > debilitated in > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > > > placement > > > > > in the > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives > > > good > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is > because > > > i > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > > > shubha > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 > years > > > old, > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't > notice the > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is > giving > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > > > according > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give > bad > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > > > wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust > and > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala > is > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to > read > > > the > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > > > nature > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama > would > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > > > dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > > > borne > > > > > in mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > Duryodhana, > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, > the > > > 10 > > > > > th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > > > death, > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the > Rudras > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in > > > south > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > > > digbala > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to > > > Surya > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and > not > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results > of > > > the > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > > > > promotions and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. > It > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 > or > > > so as > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did > not > > > have > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and > Rahu > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > > > > > guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati > yoga > > > after > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > > > instead of > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I > say > > > so but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a > papa > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > > > trikona and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though > claimed > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and > its > > > > > home that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > > > popularly > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be > at > > > its > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent > > > water > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great > and i > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative > writing, > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, > I > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun > were > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but > being in > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > > > giving > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water > bodies, > > > so > > > > > why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best > spam > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is > > > radically > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > to use" -- The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- > ---- > > > - > > > > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling > > > worldwide > > > > > > > with voicemail http://uk.messenger. > <http://uk.messenger.> > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>> > > > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.> > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>>> > > > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.> > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>> > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.> > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > - > > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > > > Date: > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its > > > > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > Date: > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is radically > easier > > > to use" -- The Wall Street Journal > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > ________ > > The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email > address from your Internet provider. > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > ------ > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, I think the fault lies with me and my age in not trying to read the entire shlokas through and trying out all the permutation combinations that I normally do before come to any conclusion as to the meaning of Sanskrit Shlokas, especially those to do with spirituality, jyotisha and tantra. I can see your view point but would also like to draw your attention to the beginning of Shri Lalita SN which says, "cidagnI kunDa sambhUtaa devakaarya samudyataa" The nearest translation is one who is born in the fire pit of Pure copiousness and intent on fulfillment of wishes of the Gods. I am sure this will make you think again the interpretation of the earlier shlokas in a different light. As you request, let us move ahead with other topics. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > Perhaps it was incorrect of me not to type out the quotation in > Itrans. Ramesh recently upgraded /migrated the system to a new OS, > so my ITrans got wiped out. > > I could have installed it again, but I guess I was just being lazy. > I am sorry I have caused you inconvenience in this regard. > > Sir, the shloka/quotation says that one (the sadhaka) must hit the > dormant kundalini with the agni of one's iccha, repeatedly, until it > turns up and starts to move. The immature/unripe kundalini at > Mooladhara, matures in the process of reaching brahma randhra and > unites with shiva thereat, so that it can cause "shubham" and Amrita > varsha. Agni causes this transformation. > > I am sure you understand the allegory & the process of > demagnetization of kundalini involved here. > > Sir, I have only one request, let's move on ahead with new > understanding. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > That was certainly my fault. Signs of me getting old. The text > being in > > roman script, I was deficient in not reading it through. It was > indeed > > negligent of me to read the first verse and then read some other > verses > > not in order. So I assumed that the description is journey of > Kundalini > > or Chitashakti, from Sawdhishthana onwards. I am more comfortable > with > > Devanagari or ULW Palladio fonts as the spelling of "ta" is done > > differently in north and south. > > There are many other Devanagari letters where this occurs. But as > I said > > I can not escape blame on that account. > > > > By the way does the shloka specifically, or by inference, mention > that > > Kundalini in Kulakunda is inauspicious as is being made out by > you? That > > is the basic question. Kindly let me know. > > > > The very word Kula Kunda indicates that the Kunda is the natural > > dwelling of the Kula or Shakti. So does the shloka mean that she > is > > inauspicious in own abode? Kindly enlighten. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > Perhaps you have not read/understood the sanskrit properly. There > > > are references to kundalini being dormant, kundalini being > activated > > > kundalini becoming auspicious. As far as my limited knowledge > goes, > > > kulakunda is "mooladhara" and I am sure you can clearly see > phrase > > > in the quotation. > > > > > > The reference is taken originally from Sanatkumaara tantra, > expanded > > > in soubhagya bhaskaram and forms part of vishesha vyaakhya on the > > > phrase "bisa tantu taneeyasee". > > > > > > If you want the entire vyaakhya, i have no objection in giving > it. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > Are you not deviating from the original thread? Where is the > > > reference > > > > to the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious? And may I know > as to > > > why > > > > the shloka describing the state of Kundalini at Muladhara is > > > excluded? I > > > > am sure you know that Kundalini does not arise from > Swadhishthana. > > > Would > > > > you bekind enough to quote the source sothat I could try to > > > locate the > > > > complete verse myself? > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > "agnim swaadhistaanagataagnitejomayeem kundalineemichhdhwam. > > > > > icchaadandenaahatyothapayadhwam....athaeva > > > rodanaavasthasaahityaat. > > > > > kulakundaadutthaapanasyotpatti roopatwaaccha sadya utpannaa > > > > > kumaareetyuchyathe. yoshittaruNee kaarunyalakshaNaa > > > > > sooryeNaahtaaduparibhaage saahityaatpativrataa. patim > > > > > brahmarandhrastham kaameshwaram vratayati bhunkte payovratam > > > > > braahmaNasyethi prayogaaccha evam koumaarataaruNya > > > > > sambhogairarishtam shubham peeyusha varshaNaroopam anyadapi > > > > > yatkinchitsaakriyathe karoti tatsarvam > agnisswaadhisthaanagatho > > > > > anuvedhati saadhayathi. agnijwalanenaiva chandramandalam > > > dravateethi > > > > > bhavaH" > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you can translate this and understand that > Kundalini > > > has > > > > > the ability to do "shubham" only when it matures (utpatti > > > avastha) > > > > > and unites with Shiva causing the amrita varsham, through > the > > > medium > > > > > of agni. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from > scriptures > > > > > that you > > > > > > have that state that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious. > That > > > will > > > > > help > > > > > > enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja and other > > > Kootas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me in the body divisions given according to > > > kootas, > > > > > is > > > > > > > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? Let's get > this > > > > > straight > > > > > > > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. Please > do > > > not > > > > > worry > > > > > > > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, and can > > > provide > > > > > > > them by the ton:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean the > portion > > > upto > > > > > neck > > > > > > > or the portion upto forehead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the > same > > > > > place, > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your > arguments > > > are > > > > > > > acceptable. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support of > your > > > > > argument > > > > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the > shloka I > > > > > sent > > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the > head > > > > > come...in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any > other > > > koota > > > > > > > defined > > > > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you > > > imply > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of > astrology > > > > > mappings > > > > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple > > > > > principle in > > > > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless > > > you are > > > > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want > to > > > > > confuse > > > > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya > intended > > > > > that "bisa > > > > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini > at > > > > > Mooladhara > > > > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately > > > after "mooladharaika > > > > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari > samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a > python > > > at > > > > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at > > > > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni > > > > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens > only > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is > > > ignited > > > > > only > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a > > > group of > > > > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating > the > > > vacha. > > > > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija > protect > > > the > > > > > > > throat > > > > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her > > > > > principal > > > > > > > abode > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However > if > > > you > > > > > want > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you > are > > > > > free to > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm > beeja > > > is > > > > > most > > > > > > > dear > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you > need the > > > > > > > reference). > > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini > > > means > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that > certainly > > > does > > > > > not > > > > > > > mean > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k...{flI devta > > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k...lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä > > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala > > > Tantra. > > > > > Do > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described > as > > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the > > > > > yamalas, i > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of > vagbhava > > > > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding > kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and > > > talks of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe > > > utsave > > > > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa > > > yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu > taneeyasee" > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened > kundalini, > > > > > let me > > > > > > > quote > > > > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. > > > uttishtatha. > > > > > maa > > > > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( > the > > > > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on > > > Kundalini. > > > > > It's > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha > (anger), > > > lobha > > > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and > maatsarya > > > > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply > > > among > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > > > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya > swaroopini" > > > and > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding > of > > > both > > > > > > > facets. > > > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be > > > routed > > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the > > > same? > > > > > The > > > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good > use, > > > is > > > > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, > > > wisdom > > > > > and > > > > > > > power, > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of > Shakti is > > > very > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and > > > krura. I > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give > > > malefic > > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You > can > > > > > refer > > > > > > > to all > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than > winning or > > > > > losing > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > > > > > exploration > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the > case, I > > > > > see no > > > > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early > age are > > > > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did > not die > > > > > young. > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read > > > Swamiji's > > > > > > > biography > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of > > > > > apparent > > > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart > > > confirms > > > > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did > not > > > know > > > > > I > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if > there > > > is a > > > > > Kuja > > > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please > do not > > > > > bring > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into > > > astrological > > > > > > > analysis > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions > are > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. > The > > > two > > > > > have > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an > > > event but > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you > have > > > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha > in > > > that > > > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you > read > > > my > > > > > mail, > > > > > > > I did > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, > only > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > > > gave > > > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma > and > > > always > > > > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the > > > topic, > > > > > did > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > > > > > Vivekananda's > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing > a > > > > > powerful > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji > lived, > > > > > you may > > > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as > > > Mahakrura. > > > > > Think > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, > before > > > > > declaring > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an > icchamrityu > > > and > > > > > > > looking at > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe > that he > > > > > passed > > > > > > > away > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02- > 10 > > > > > (3:59:13 > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903- > 08-27 > > > > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09- > 12 > > > > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07- > 07 > > > > > (5:06:28 > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902- > 07-06 > > > > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 > > > > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus > is > > > the > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is > in > > > the > > > > > > > house of > > > > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is > the > > > 2nd > > > > > lord > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > > > > > significations > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK > aspecting 7th > > > > > house, > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore > the > > > > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th > > > house? I > > > > > am > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:-- > )) > > > but > > > > > > > without the > > > > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he > > > created > > > > > > > wherever > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to > the > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in > the > > > 7th > > > > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think > the > > > > > strong > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You > have > > > not > > > > > > > commented > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the > bhava > > > that > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already > stated > > > in > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to > great > > > > > people, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise > of > > > what I > > > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a > malignant > > > > > sarcoma > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in > his > > > > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to > examine > > > the > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the > 3rd > > > lord > > > > > from > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's > chart, > > > rahu > > > > > is > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's > effects...all of > > > > > which > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th > house and > > > > > ketu > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's > effect, > > > if at > > > > > > > all, was > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02- > 03 > > > > > (2:05:32 > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02- > 21 > > > > > (8:49:14 > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05- > 18 > > > > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04- > 20 > > > > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950- > 04-14 > > > > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > > > (12:47:04 > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that > the > > > dasa > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I > think > > > their > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa > totally > > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the > > > above > > > > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues > in > > > my > > > > > next > > > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars > strong as > > > a > > > > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even > > > when in > > > > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane > > > > > smritam has > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > > > > > Mars/Venus > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. > Please go > > > > > through > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and > Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background > and > > > that > > > > > he > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its > soft > > > > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics > giving > > > > > P.M. > > > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > > > > > attributed > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine > > > they > > > > > would > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all > > > with > > > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of > > > India > > > > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages > gave us > > > > > > > principles > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope > using > > > > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka > giving > > > the > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old > > > classic > > > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to > > > accept > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. > > > Raman, > > > > > it > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the > shloka > > > I > > > > > would > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri > B.V. > > > > > Raman > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good > > > results, > > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also > > > disagree > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it > > > contrary to > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I > > > find > > > > > that > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura > nor > > > that > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in > lagna and > > > > > mars > > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted > > > Saturn > > > > > (9H) > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, > while > > > > > > > debilitated > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to > Saturn's > > > > > > > placement in > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong > Saturn > > > gives > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying > is > > > > > because i > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% > > > 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying > is, > > > that > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) > and > > > the > > > > > > > shubha > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when > weak > > > and > > > > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH > smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I > was 9 > > > years > > > > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't > > > notice > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the > > > difference > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that > Rahu is > > > > > giving > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally > good, > > > then > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart > because > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, > > > give > > > > > bad > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong > > > planets, > > > > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, > he > > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly > > > combust > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because > according > > > > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher > > > shadbala > > > > > is > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request > you to > > > > > read the > > > > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he > died, > > > the > > > > > > > nature > > > > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest > persons in > > > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because > > > Parashurama > > > > > would > > > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to > learn > > > > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support > Duryodhana. > > > > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But > it's to > > > be > > > > > > > borne in > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > > > > > Duryodhana, > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything > personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house > from > > > 8th > > > > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural > > > zodiac, > > > > > the > > > > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, > represents > > > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the > lord > > > of > > > > > > > death, > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. > So, the > > > > > Rudras > > > > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun > > > resides in > > > > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So > he > > > has > > > > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I > > > referred to > > > > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as > antaraatma > > > and > > > > > not > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > <%40> <% > 40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the > > > results > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your > father > > > had > > > > > > > promotions > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that > > > time. > > > > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young > age of > > > 9 > > > > > or so > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you > > > did not > > > > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about > Rahu > > > and > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by > conjunction, as > > > you > > > > > > > guessed > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a > Dharmakarmaadhipati > > > yoga > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its > dasha > > > > > instead > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not > because I > > > > > say so > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when > > > conjunct a > > > > > papa > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of > Artha > > > > > trikona > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. > Though > > > > > claimed > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana > (8th) > > > and > > > > > its > > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is > more > > > > > > > popularly > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If > it > > > is > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would > Sun > > > be at > > > > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not > > > represent > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent > > > too. My > > > > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were > great > > > > > and i > > > > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative > > > > > writing, > > > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a > > > student, I > > > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, > if > > > Sun > > > > > were > > > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, > but > > > being > > > > > in > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu > is > > > also > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is > malefic > > > and > > > > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent > > > burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a > place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all > water > > > > > bodies, > > > > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the > > > best > > > > > spam > > > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of- > > > date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > have > > > been > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New > Version is > > > > > > > radically > > > > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > > > > to use" -- The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection > and > > > 1GB > > > > > > > storage > > > > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- > ---- > > > -- > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've > developed > > > the > > > > > all > > > > > > > new Security Centre. > http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- > -- > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - > Release > > > Date: > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its > > > > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > Date: > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now. > > > http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > ________ > > All New Mail -- Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > ------ > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, Sir, may i request you to read Lalithopakhyanam? One can understand from where the "chidagni" originated....infact, the entire concept/context of "chidagni kunda sambhuta". I wanted to know your understanding of "kulapathaanandaikabeejanana". If you can give it, i'd welcome it, otherwise, please leave it. Thanks for making me think so much of Mother. Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > I think the fault lies with me and my age in not trying to read the > entire shlokas through and trying out all the permutation combinations > that I normally do before come to any conclusion as to the meaning of > Sanskrit Shlokas, especially those to do with spirituality, jyotisha and > tantra. > > I can see your view point but would also like to draw your attention to > the beginning of Shri Lalita SN which says, > "cidagnI kunDa sambhUtaa devakaarya samudyataa" > The nearest translation is one who is born in the fire pit of Pure > copiousness and intent on fulfillment of wishes of the Gods. > > I am sure this will make you think again the interpretation of the > earlier shlokas in a different light. > > As you request, let us move ahead with other topics. > > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > Perhaps it was incorrect of me not to type out the quotation in > > Itrans. Ramesh recently upgraded /migrated the system to a new OS, > > so my ITrans got wiped out. > > > > I could have installed it again, but I guess I was just being lazy. > > I am sorry I have caused you inconvenience in this regard. > > > > Sir, the shloka/quotation says that one (the sadhaka) must hit the > > dormant kundalini with the agni of one's iccha, repeatedly, until it > > turns up and starts to move. The immature/unripe kundalini at > > Mooladhara, matures in the process of reaching brahma randhra and > > unites with shiva thereat, so that it can cause "shubham" and Amrita > > varsha. Agni causes this transformation. > > > > I am sure you understand the allegory & the process of > > demagnetization of kundalini involved here. > > > > Sir, I have only one request, let's move on ahead with new > > understanding. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > That was certainly my fault. Signs of me getting old. The text > > being in > > > roman script, I was deficient in not reading it through. It was > > indeed > > > negligent of me to read the first verse and then read some other > > verses > > > not in order. So I assumed that the description is journey of > > Kundalini > > > or Chitashakti, from Sawdhishthana onwards. I am more comfortable > > with > > > Devanagari or ULW Palladio fonts as the spelling of "ta" is done > > > differently in north and south. > > > There are many other Devanagari letters where this occurs. But as > > I said > > > I can not escape blame on that account. > > > > > > By the way does the shloka specifically, or by inference, mention > > that > > > Kundalini in Kulakunda is inauspicious as is being made out by > > you? That > > > is the basic question. Kindly let me know. > > > > > > The very word Kula Kunda indicates that the Kunda is the natural > > > dwelling of the Kula or Shakti. So does the shloka mean that she > > is > > > inauspicious in own abode? Kindly enlighten. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > Perhaps you have not read/understood the sanskrit properly. There > > > > are references to kundalini being dormant, kundalini being > > activated > > > > kundalini becoming auspicious. As far as my limited knowledge > > goes, > > > > kulakunda is "mooladhara" and I am sure you can clearly see > > phrase > > > > in the quotation. > > > > > > > > The reference is taken originally from Sanatkumaara tantra, > > expanded > > > > in soubhagya bhaskaram and forms part of vishesha vyaakhya on the > > > > phrase "bisa tantu taneeyasee". > > > > > > > > If you want the entire vyaakhya, i have no objection in giving > > it. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > Are you not deviating from the original thread? Where is the > > > > reference > > > > > to the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious? And may I know > > as to > > > > why > > > > > the shloka describing the state of Kundalini at Muladhara is > > > > excluded? I > > > > > am sure you know that Kundalini does not arise from > > Swadhishthana. > > > > Would > > > > > you bekind enough to quote the source sothat I could try to > > > > locate the > > > > > complete verse myself? > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > "agnim swaadhistaanagataagnitejomayeem kundalineemichhdhwam. > > > > > > icchaadandenaahatyothapayadhwam....athaeva > > > > rodanaavasthasaahityaat. > > > > > > kulakundaadutthaapanasyotpatti roopatwaaccha sadya utpannaa > > > > > > kumaareetyuchyathe. yoshittaruNee kaarunyalakshaNaa > > > > > > sooryeNaahtaaduparibhaage saahityaatpativrataa. patim > > > > > > brahmarandhrastham kaameshwaram vratayati bhunkte payovratam > > > > > > braahmaNasyethi prayogaaccha evam koumaarataaruNya > > > > > > sambhogairarishtam shubham peeyusha varshaNaroopam anyadapi > > > > > > yatkinchitsaakriyathe karoti tatsarvam > > agnisswaadhisthaanagatho > > > > > > anuvedhati saadhayathi. agnijwalanenaiva chandramandalam > > > > dravateethi > > > > > > bhavaH" > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you can translate this and understand that > > Kundalini > > > > has > > > > > > the ability to do "shubham" only when it matures (utpatti > > > > avastha) > > > > > > and unites with Shiva causing the amrita varsham, through > > the > > > > medium > > > > > > of agni. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from > > scriptures > > > > > > that you > > > > > > > have that state that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious. > > That > > > > will > > > > > > help > > > > > > > enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja and other > > > > Kootas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me in the body divisions given according to > > > > kootas, > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? Let's get > > this > > > > > > straight > > > > > > > > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. Please > > do > > > > not > > > > > > worry > > > > > > > > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, and can > > > > provide > > > > > > > > them by the ton:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean the > > portion > > > > upto > > > > > > neck > > > > > > > > or the portion upto forehead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the > > same > > > > > > place, > > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your > > arguments > > > > are > > > > > > > > acceptable. > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support of > > your > > > > > > argument > > > > > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the > > shloka I > > > > > > sent > > > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the > > head > > > > > > come...in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any > > other > > > > koota > > > > > > > > defined > > > > > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you > > > > imply > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of > > astrology > > > > > > mappings > > > > > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple > > > > > > principle in > > > > > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless > > > > you are > > > > > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want > > to > > > > > > confuse > > > > > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya > > intended > > > > > > that "bisa > > > > > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini > > at > > > > > > Mooladhara > > > > > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately > > > > after "mooladharaika > > > > > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari > > samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a > > python > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at > > > > > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni > > > > > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens > > only > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is > > > > ignited > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a > > > > group of > > > > > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating > > the > > > > vacha. > > > > > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija > > protect > > > > the > > > > > > > > throat > > > > > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her > > > > > > principal > > > > > > > > abode > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However > > if > > > > you > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you > > are > > > > > > free to > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm > > beeja > > > > is > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > dear > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you > > need the > > > > > > > > reference). > > > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini > > > > means > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that > > certainly > > > > does > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > mean > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k...{flI devta > > > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k...lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä > > > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala > > > > Tantra. > > > > > > Do > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described > > as > > > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the > > > > > > yamalas, i > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding > > kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and > > > > talks of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe > > > > utsave > > > > > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa > > > > yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu > > taneeyasee" > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened > > kundalini, > > > > > > let me > > > > > > > > quote > > > > > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. > > > > uttishtatha. > > > > > > maa > > > > > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up ( > > the > > > > > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on > > > > Kundalini. > > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha > > (anger), > > > > lobha > > > > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and > > maatsarya > > > > > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply > > > > among > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > > > > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya > > swaroopini" > > > > and > > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding > > of > > > > both > > > > > > > > facets. > > > > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be > > > > routed > > > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the > > > > same? > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good > > use, > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, > > > > wisdom > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > power, > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > > > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of > > Shakti is > > > > very > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and > > > > krura. I > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You > > can > > > > > > refer > > > > > > > > to all > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than > > winning or > > > > > > losing > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > > > > > > exploration > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the > > case, I > > > > > > see no > > > > > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early > > age are > > > > > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did > > not die > > > > > > young. > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read > > > > Swamiji's > > > > > > > > biography > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of > > > > > > apparent > > > > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart > > > > confirms > > > > > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did > > not > > > > know > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if > > there > > > > is a > > > > > > Kuja > > > > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please > > do not > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into > > > > astrological > > > > > > > > analysis > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions > > are > > > > on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. > > The > > > > two > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an > > > > event but > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you > > have > > > > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha > > in > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you > > read > > > > my > > > > > > mail, > > > > > > > > I did > > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, > > only > > > > that > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > gave > > > > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma > > and > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the > > > > topic, > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > > > > > > Vivekananda's > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing > > a > > > > > > powerful > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji > > lived, > > > > > > you may > > > > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as > > > > Mahakrura. > > > > > > Think > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, > > before > > > > > > declaring > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an > > icchamrityu > > > > and > > > > > > > > looking at > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe > > that he > > > > > > passed > > > > > > > > away > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909- 02- > > 10 > > > > > > (3:59:13 > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903- > > 08-27 > > > > > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902- 09- > > 12 > > > > > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902- 07- > > 07 > > > > > > (5:06:28 > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902- > > 07-06 > > > > > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07- 05 > > > > > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus > > is > > > > the > > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > > house of > > > > > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is > > the > > > > 2nd > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK > > aspecting 7th > > > > > > house, > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore > > the > > > > > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th > > > > house? I > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:-- > > )) > > > > but > > > > > > > > without the > > > > > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he > > > > created > > > > > > > > wherever > > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to > > the > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in > > the > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think > > the > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You > > have > > > > not > > > > > > > > commented > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the > > bhava > > > > that > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already > > stated > > > > in > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to > > great > > > > > > people, > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise > > of > > > > what I > > > > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a > > malignant > > > > > > sarcoma > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in > > his > > > > > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to > > examine > > > > the > > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the > > 3rd > > > > lord > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's > > chart, > > > > rahu > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's > > effects...all of > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th > > house and > > > > > > ketu > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's > > effect, > > > > if at > > > > > > > > all, was > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955- 02- > > 03 > > > > > > (2:05:32 > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951- 02- > > 21 > > > > > > (8:49:14 > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950- 05- > > 18 > > > > > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950- 04- > > 20 > > > > > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950- > > 04-14 > > > > > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950- 04-14 > > > > > > (12:47:04 > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that > > the > > > > dasa > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I > > think > > > > their > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa > > totally > > > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the > > > > above > > > > > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues > > in > > > > my > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars > > strong as > > > > a > > > > > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even > > > > when in > > > > > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane > > > > > > smritam has > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > > > > > > Mars/Venus > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. > > Please go > > > > > > through > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and > > Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background > > and > > > > that > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its > > soft > > > > > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics > > giving > > > > > > P.M. > > > > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > > > > > > attributed > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine > > > > they > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all > > > > with > > > > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of > > > > India > > > > > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages > > gave us > > > > > > > > principles > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope > > using > > > > > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka > > giving > > > > the > > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old > > > > classic > > > > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to > > > > accept > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. > > > > Raman, > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the > > shloka > > > > I > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri > > B.V. > > > > > > Raman > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good > > > > results, > > > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also > > > > disagree > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it > > > > contrary to > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I > > > > find > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura > > nor > > > > that > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in > > lagna and > > > > > > mars > > > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd > > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in > > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted > > > > Saturn > > > > > > (9H) > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, > > while > > > > > > > > debilitated > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > > > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to > > Saturn's > > > > > > > > placement in > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong > > Saturn > > > > gives > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying > > is > > > > > > because i > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% > > > > 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying > > is, > > > > that > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha- krura) > > and > > > > the > > > > > > > > shubha > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when > > weak > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH > > smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I > > was 9 > > > > years > > > > > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't > > > > notice > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the > > > > difference > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that > > Rahu is > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally > > good, > > > > then > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart > > because > > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, > > > > give > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, > > he > > > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly > > > > combust > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because > > according > > > > > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher > > > > shadbala > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request > > you to > > > > > > read the > > > > > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he > > died, > > > > the > > > > > > > > nature > > > > > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest > > persons in > > > > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because > > > > Parashurama > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to > > learn > > > > > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support > > Duryodhana. > > > > > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But > > it's to > > > > be > > > > > > > > borne in > > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > > > > > > Duryodhana, > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything > > personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house > > from > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural > > > > zodiac, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, > > represents > > > > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the > > lord > > > > of > > > > > > > > death, > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. > > So, the > > > > > > Rudras > > > > > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun > > > > resides in > > > > > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So > > he > > > > has > > > > > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I > > > > referred to > > > > > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as > > antaraatma > > > > and > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > <%40> <% > > 40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the > > > > results > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your > > father > > > > had > > > > > > > > promotions > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that > > > > time. > > > > > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young > > age of > > > > 9 > > > > > > or so > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you > > > > did not > > > > > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about > > Rahu > > > > and > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by > > conjunction, as > > > > you > > > > > > > > guessed > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a > > Dharmakarmaadhipati > > > > yoga > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its > > dasha > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not > > because I > > > > > > say so > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when > > > > conjunct a > > > > > > papa > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of > > Artha > > > > > > trikona > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. > > Though > > > > > > claimed > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana > > (8th) > > > > and > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is > > more > > > > > > > > popularly > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If > > it > > > > is > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would > > Sun > > > > be at > > > > > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not > > > > represent > > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent > > > > too. My > > > > > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were > > great > > > > > > and i > > > > > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative > > > > > > writing, > > > > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a > > > > student, I > > > > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, > > if > > > > Sun > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, > > but > > > > being > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu > > is > > > > also > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is > > malefic > > > > and > > > > > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent > > > > burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a > > place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all > > water > > > > > > bodies, > > > > > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the > > > > best > > > > > > spam > > > > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- --- > > ---- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out- of- > > > > date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > > have > > > > been > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- --- > > ---- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > been > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------ --- > > ---- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New > > Version is > > > > > > > > radically > > > > > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > > > > > to use" -- The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --- > > ---- > > > > ---- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection > > and > > > > 1GB > > > > > > > > storage > > > > > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- --- > > ---- > > > > -- > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've > > developed > > > > the > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > new Security Centre. > > http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- --- > > -- > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - > > Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its > > > > > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ - > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > > Date: > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now. > > > > http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > All New Mail -- Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard > > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------- ------- > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste to All, In the context of LS Mantra "Chidagni Kuda Sambutha", will this link be of any help..? http://al-qiyamah.org/kitab_al_munir/book_of_enlightenment_1-100.htm <http://al-qiyamah.org/kitab_al_munir/book_of_enlightenment_1-100.htm> Though it is not original commentary on LS, still thought cld be of useful reference in this context.... with respects sriganeshh , "b_lakshmi_ramesh" <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > Sir, may i request you to read Lalithopakhyanam? One can understand > from where the "chidagni" originated....infact, the entire > concept/context of "chidagni kunda sambhuta". > > I wanted to know your understanding > of "kulapathaanandaikabeejanana". If you can give it, i'd welcome > it, otherwise, please leave it. > > Thanks for making me think so much of Mother. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > > > , Chandrashekhar > chandrashekhar46@ wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > I think the fault lies with me and my age in not trying to read > the > > entire shlokas through and trying out all the permutation > combinations > > that I normally do before come to any conclusion as to the meaning > of > > Sanskrit Shlokas, especially those to do with spirituality, > jyotisha and > > tantra. > > > > I can see your view point but would also like to draw your > attention to > > the beginning of Shri Lalita SN which says, > > "cidagnI kunDa sambhUtaa devakaarya samudyataa" > > The nearest translation is one who is born in the fire pit of Pure > > copiousness and intent on fulfillment of wishes of the Gods. > > > > I am sure this will make you think again the interpretation of the > > earlier shlokas in a different light. > > > > As you request, let us move ahead with other topics. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > Perhaps it was incorrect of me not to type out the quotation in > > > Itrans. Ramesh recently upgraded /migrated the system to a new > OS, > > > so my ITrans got wiped out. > > > > > > I could have installed it again, but I guess I was just being > lazy. > > > I am sorry I have caused you inconvenience in this regard. > > > > > > Sir, the shloka/quotation says that one (the sadhaka) must hit > the > > > dormant kundalini with the agni of one's iccha, repeatedly, > until it > > > turns up and starts to move. The immature/unripe kundalini at > > > Mooladhara, matures in the process of reaching brahma randhra and > > > unites with shiva thereat, so that it can cause "shubham" and > Amrita > > > varsha. Agni causes this transformation. > > > > > > I am sure you understand the allegory & the process of > > > demagnetization of kundalini involved here. > > > > > > Sir, I have only one request, let's move on ahead with new > > > understanding. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > That was certainly my fault. Signs of me getting old. The text > > > being in > > > > roman script, I was deficient in not reading it through. It was > > > indeed > > > > negligent of me to read the first verse and then read some > other > > > verses > > > > not in order. So I assumed that the description is journey of > > > Kundalini > > > > or Chitashakti, from Sawdhishthana onwards. I am more > comfortable > > > with > > > > Devanagari or ULW Palladio fonts as the spelling of "ta" is > done > > > > differently in north and south. > > > > There are many other Devanagari letters where this occurs. But > as > > > I said > > > > I can not escape blame on that account. > > > > > > > > By the way does the shloka specifically, or by inference, > mention > > > that > > > > Kundalini in Kulakunda is inauspicious as is being made out by > > > you? That > > > > is the basic question. Kindly let me know. > > > > > > > > The very word Kula Kunda indicates that the Kunda is the > natural > > > > dwelling of the Kula or Shakti. So does the shloka mean that > she > > > is > > > > inauspicious in own abode? Kindly enlighten. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you have not read/understood the sanskrit properly. > There > > > > > are references to kundalini being dormant, kundalini being > > > activated > > > > > kundalini becoming auspicious. As far as my limited knowledge > > > goes, > > > > > kulakunda is "mooladhara" and I am sure you can clearly see > > > phrase > > > > > in the quotation. > > > > > > > > > > The reference is taken originally from Sanatkumaara tantra, > > > expanded > > > > > in soubhagya bhaskaram and forms part of vishesha vyaakhya > on the > > > > > phrase "bisa tantu taneeyasee". > > > > > > > > > > If you want the entire vyaakhya, i have no objection in > giving > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not deviating from the original thread? Where is > the > > > > > reference > > > > > > to the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious? And may I know > > > as to > > > > > why > > > > > > the shloka describing the state of Kundalini at Muladhara > is > > > > > excluded? I > > > > > > am sure you know that Kundalini does not arise from > > > Swadhishthana. > > > > > Would > > > > > > you bekind enough to quote the source sothat I could try to > > > > > locate the > > > > > > complete verse myself? > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "agnim swaadhistaanagataagnitejomayeem > kundalineemichhdhwam. > > > > > > > icchaadandenaahatyothapayadhwam....athaeva > > > > > rodanaavasthasaahityaat. > > > > > > > kulakundaadutthaapanasyotpatti roopatwaaccha sadya > utpannaa > > > > > > > kumaareetyuchyathe. yoshittaruNee kaarunyalakshaNaa > > > > > > > sooryeNaahtaaduparibhaage saahityaatpativrataa. patim > > > > > > > brahmarandhrastham kaameshwaram vratayati bhunkte > payovratam > > > > > > > braahmaNasyethi prayogaaccha evam koumaarataaruNya > > > > > > > sambhogairarishtam shubham peeyusha varshaNaroopam > anyadapi > > > > > > > yatkinchitsaakriyathe karoti tatsarvam > > > agnisswaadhisthaanagatho > > > > > > > anuvedhati saadhayathi. agnijwalanenaiva chandramandalam > > > > > dravateethi > > > > > > > bhavaH" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you can translate this and understand that > > > Kundalini > > > > > has > > > > > > > the ability to do "shubham" only when it matures (utpatti > > > > > avastha) > > > > > > > and unites with Shiva causing the amrita varsham, through > > > the > > > > > medium > > > > > > > of agni. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from > > > scriptures > > > > > > > that you > > > > > > > > have that state that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious. > > > That > > > > > will > > > > > > > help > > > > > > > > enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja and > other > > > > > Kootas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me in the body divisions given according > to > > > > > kootas, > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? Let's > get > > > this > > > > > > > straight > > > > > > > > > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. > Please > > > do > > > > > not > > > > > > > worry > > > > > > > > > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, and > can > > > > > provide > > > > > > > > > them by the ton:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean the > > > portion > > > > > upto > > > > > > > neck > > > > > > > > > or the portion upto forehead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the > > > same > > > > > > > place, > > > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your > > > arguments > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support > of > > > your > > > > > > > argument > > > > > > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the > > > shloka I > > > > > > > sent > > > > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > > > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the > > > head > > > > > > > come...in > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any > > > other > > > > > koota > > > > > > > > > defined > > > > > > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do > you > > > > > imply > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of > > > astrology > > > > > > > mappings > > > > > > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a > simple > > > > > > > principle in > > > > > > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, > unless > > > > > you are > > > > > > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or > want > > > to > > > > > > > confuse > > > > > > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya > > > intended > > > > > > > that "bisa > > > > > > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt > kundalini > > > at > > > > > > > Mooladhara > > > > > > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately > > > > > after "mooladharaika > > > > > > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari > > > samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a > > > python > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser > than at > > > > > > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not > agni > > > > > > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" > happens > > > only > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and > is > > > > > ignited > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but > a > > > > > group of > > > > > > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating > > > the > > > > > vacha. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija > > > protect > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > throat > > > > > > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And > her > > > > > > > principal > > > > > > > > > abode > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. > However > > > if > > > > > you > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant > you > > > are > > > > > > > free to > > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm > > > beeja > > > > > is > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > dear > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you > > > need the > > > > > > > > > reference). > > > > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that > Kundalini > > > > > means > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that > > > certainly > > > > > does > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > mean > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k...{flI devta > > > > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé > devatä > > > > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k...lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä > > > > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in > Rudrayamala > > > > > Tantra. > > > > > > > Do > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > > > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is > described > > > as > > > > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read > the > > > > > > > yamalas, i > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding > > > kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" > and > > > > > talks of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with > Shiva....mahe > > > > > utsave > > > > > > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH > tatparataa > > > > > yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu > > > taneeyasee" > > > > > is > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened > > > kundalini, > > > > > > > let me > > > > > > > > > quote > > > > > > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. > > > > > uttishtatha. > > > > > > > maa > > > > > > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up > ( > > > the > > > > > > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on > > > > > Kundalini. > > > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha > > > (anger), > > > > > lobha > > > > > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and > > > maatsarya > > > > > > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" > imply > > > > > among > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > > > > > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya > > > swaroopini" > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes > understanding > > > of > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > facets. > > > > > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which > can be > > > > > routed > > > > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends > the > > > > > same? > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good > > > use, > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and > Parvati, > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > power, > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures > the > > > > > > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of > > > Shakti is > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik > and > > > > > krura. I > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can > give > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. > You > > > can > > > > > > > refer > > > > > > > > > to all > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than > > > winning or > > > > > > > losing > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as > an > > > > > > > exploration > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the > > > case, I > > > > > > > see no > > > > > > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early > > > age are > > > > > > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did > > > not die > > > > > > > young. > > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read > > > > > Swamiji's > > > > > > > > > biography > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times > despite of > > > > > > > apparent > > > > > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's > chart > > > > > confirms > > > > > > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I > did > > > not > > > > > know > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if > > > there > > > > > is a > > > > > > > Kuja > > > > > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please > > > do not > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into > > > > > astrological > > > > > > > > > analysis > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the > discussions > > > are > > > > > on > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no > where. > > > The > > > > > two > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time > an > > > > > event but > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart > you > > > have > > > > > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu > deha > > > in > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you > > > read > > > > > my > > > > > > > mail, > > > > > > > > > I did > > > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, > > > only > > > > > that > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > gave > > > > > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma > > > and > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on > the > > > > > topic, > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > > > > > > > Vivekananda's > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and > causing > > > a > > > > > > > powerful > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji > > > lived, > > > > > > > you may > > > > > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as > > > > > Mahakrura. > > > > > > > Think > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, > > > before > > > > > > > declaring > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an > > > icchamrityu > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > looking at > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe > > > that he > > > > > > > passed > > > > > > > > > away > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909- > 02- > > > 10 > > > > > > > (3:59:13 > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - > 1903- > > > 08-27 > > > > > > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902- > 09- > > > 12 > > > > > > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902- > 07- > > > 07 > > > > > > > (5:06:28 > > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - > 1902- > > > 07-06 > > > > > > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07- > 05 > > > > > > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, > Venus > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu > is > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > house of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn > is > > > the > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his > early > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK > > > aspecting 7th > > > > > > > house, > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you > ignore > > > the > > > > > > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the > 10th > > > > > house? I > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja > yoga:-- > > > )) > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > without the > > > > > > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact > he > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > wherever > > > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to > > > the > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars > in > > > the > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I > think > > > the > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You > > > have > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > commented > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the > > > bhava > > > > > that > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already > > > stated > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to > > > great > > > > > > > people, > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or > otherwise > > > of > > > > > what I > > > > > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a > > > malignant > > > > > > > sarcoma > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in > > > his > > > > > > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent > results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to > > > examine > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the > > > 3rd > > > > > lord > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's > > > chart, > > > > > rahu > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's > > > effects...all of > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th > > > house and > > > > > > > ketu > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's > > > effect, > > > > > if at > > > > > > > > > all, was > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955- > 02- > > > 03 > > > > > > > (2:05:32 > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951- > 02- > > > 21 > > > > > > > (8:49:14 > > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950- > 05- > > > 18 > > > > > > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950- > 04- > > > 20 > > > > > > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - > 1950- > > > 04-14 > > > > > > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950- > 04-14 > > > > > > > (12:47:04 > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact > that > > > the > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I > > > think > > > > > their > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa > > > totally > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider > the > > > > > above > > > > > > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other > charts/issues > > > in > > > > > my > > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars > > > strong as > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility > even > > > > > when in > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam > shane > > > > > > > smritam has > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not > considered > > > > > > > Mars/Venus > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. > > > Please go > > > > > > > through > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and > > > Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background > > > and > > > > > that > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for > its > > > soft > > > > > > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics > > > giving > > > > > > > P.M. > > > > > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. > Yoga > > > > > > > attributed > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to > imagine > > > > > they > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or > all > > > > > with > > > > > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts > of > > > > > India > > > > > > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages > > > gave us > > > > > > > > > principles > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope > > > using > > > > > > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka > > > giving > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an > old > > > > > classic > > > > > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem > to > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by > Dr. > > > > > Raman, > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the > > > shloka > > > > > I > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with > Shri > > > B.V. > > > > > > > Raman > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give > good > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also > > > > > disagree > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it > > > > > contrary to > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, > where I > > > > > find > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura > > > nor > > > > > that > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in > > > lagna and > > > > > > > mars > > > > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd > > > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars > in > > > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: > Exalted > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > (9H) > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, > > > while > > > > > > > > > debilitated > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > > > > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to > > > Saturn's > > > > > > > > > placement in > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong > > > Saturn > > > > > gives > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the > saying > > > is > > > > > > > because i > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% > > > > > 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the > saying > > > is, > > > > > that > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha- > krura) > > > and > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > shubha > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when > > > weak > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH > > > smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I > > > was 9 > > > > > years > > > > > > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you > didn't > > > > > notice > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that > > > Rahu is > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally > > > good, > > > > > then > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart > > > because > > > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when > weak, > > > > > give > > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while > strong > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were > weak, > > > he > > > > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly > > > > > combust > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major > results of > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because > > > according > > > > > > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher > > > > > shadbala > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request > > > you to > > > > > > > read the > > > > > > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he > > > died, > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > nature > > > > > > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest > > > persons in > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because > > > > > Parashurama > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to > > > learn > > > > > > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support > > > Duryodhana. > > > > > > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But > > > it's to > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > borne in > > > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to > please > > > > > > > Duryodhana, > > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything > > > personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house > > > from > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the > natural > > > > > zodiac, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, > > > represents > > > > > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, > the > > > lord > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > death, > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. > > > So, the > > > > > > > Rudras > > > > > > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun > > > > > resides in > > > > > > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. > So > > > he > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I > > > > > referred to > > > > > > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as > > > antaraatma > > > > > and > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the > > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > > <%40> <% > > > 40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for > the > > > > > results > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your > > > father > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > promotions > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during > that > > > > > time. > > > > > > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young > > > age of > > > > > 9 > > > > > > > or so > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved > you > > > > > did not > > > > > > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about > > > Rahu > > > > > and > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by > > > conjunction, as > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > guessed > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a > > > Dharmakarmaadhipati > > > > > yoga > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its > > > dasha > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not > > > because I > > > > > > > say so > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when > > > > > conjunct a > > > > > > > papa > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of > > > Artha > > > > > > > trikona > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. > > > Though > > > > > > > claimed > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana > > > (8th) > > > > > and > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th > is > > > more > > > > > > > > > popularly > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. > If > > > it > > > > > is > > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why > would > > > Sun > > > > > be at > > > > > > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not > > > > > represent > > > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was > excellent > > > > > too. My > > > > > > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days > were > > > great > > > > > > > and i > > > > > > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in > creative > > > > > > > writing, > > > > > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a > > > > > student, I > > > > > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify > this, > > > if > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, > > > but > > > > > being > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think > Rahu > > > is > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is > > > malefic > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also > represent > > > > > burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a > > > place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all > > > water > > > > > > > bodies, > > > > > > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has > the > > > > > best > > > > > > > spam > > > > > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > --- > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out- > of- > > > > > date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus > Database: > > > > > > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > message > > > have > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > --- > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > > > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > have > > > been > > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------ > --- > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New > > > Version is > > > > > > > > > radically > > > > > > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to use" -- The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ > --- > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection > > > and > > > > > 1GB > > > > > > > > > storage > > > > > > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- > --- > > > ---- > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've > > > developed > > > > > the > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > new Security Centre. > > > http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. > <http://uk.security.> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. > <http://uk.security.> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- > --- > > > -- > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - > > > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in > its > > > > > > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > - > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > > > Date: > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now. > > > > > http://www..co.uk/blackberry > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > Date: > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > All New Mail -- Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our > SpamGuard > > > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------- > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Dear Lakshmi, It is apparent you have not understood the yogic meaning behind the lalitopakhyana. So our discussions are not likely to bring any fruits. It is strange you do apply different meaning to Kunda to suit your arguments. I am sure you will not find the anand on the way of Kula patha in "kulapathaanandaikabeejanana" and giving the tantrik meaning here would be superfluous. I would prefer if you understand Mother instead of only thinking about her. I am sure you can do that if you focus in that direction. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > Sir, may i request you to read Lalithopakhyanam? One can understand > from where the "chidagni" originated....infact, the entire > concept/context of "chidagni kunda sambhuta". > > I wanted to know your understanding > of "kulapathaanandaikabeejanana". If you can give it, i'd welcome > it, otherwise, please leave it. > > Thanks for making me think so much of Mother. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > I think the fault lies with me and my age in not trying to read > the > > entire shlokas through and trying out all the permutation > combinations > > that I normally do before come to any conclusion as to the meaning > of > > Sanskrit Shlokas, especially those to do with spirituality, > jyotisha and > > tantra. > > > > I can see your view point but would also like to draw your > attention to > > the beginning of Shri Lalita SN which says, > > "cidagnI kunDa sambhUtaa devakaarya samudyataa" > > The nearest translation is one who is born in the fire pit of Pure > > copiousness and intent on fulfillment of wishes of the Gods. > > > > I am sure this will make you think again the interpretation of the > > earlier shlokas in a different light. > > > > As you request, let us move ahead with other topics. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > Perhaps it was incorrect of me not to type out the quotation in > > > Itrans. Ramesh recently upgraded /migrated the system to a new > OS, > > > so my ITrans got wiped out. > > > > > > I could have installed it again, but I guess I was just being > lazy. > > > I am sorry I have caused you inconvenience in this regard. > > > > > > Sir, the shloka/quotation says that one (the sadhaka) must hit > the > > > dormant kundalini with the agni of one's iccha, repeatedly, > until it > > > turns up and starts to move. The immature/unripe kundalini at > > > Mooladhara, matures in the process of reaching brahma randhra and > > > unites with shiva thereat, so that it can cause "shubham" and > Amrita > > > varsha. Agni causes this transformation. > > > > > > I am sure you understand the allegory & the process of > > > demagnetization of kundalini involved here. > > > > > > Sir, I have only one request, let's move on ahead with new > > > understanding. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > That was certainly my fault. Signs of me getting old. The text > > > being in > > > > roman script, I was deficient in not reading it through. It was > > > indeed > > > > negligent of me to read the first verse and then read some > other > > > verses > > > > not in order. So I assumed that the description is journey of > > > Kundalini > > > > or Chitashakti, from Sawdhishthana onwards. I am more > comfortable > > > with > > > > Devanagari or ULW Palladio fonts as the spelling of "ta" is > done > > > > differently in north and south. > > > > There are many other Devanagari letters where this occurs. But > as > > > I said > > > > I can not escape blame on that account. > > > > > > > > By the way does the shloka specifically, or by inference, > mention > > > that > > > > Kundalini in Kulakunda is inauspicious as is being made out by > > > you? That > > > > is the basic question. Kindly let me know. > > > > > > > > The very word Kula Kunda indicates that the Kunda is the > natural > > > > dwelling of the Kula or Shakti. So does the shloka mean that > she > > > is > > > > inauspicious in own abode? Kindly enlighten. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you have not read/understood the sanskrit properly. > There > > > > > are references to kundalini being dormant, kundalini being > > > activated > > > > > kundalini becoming auspicious. As far as my limited knowledge > > > goes, > > > > > kulakunda is "mooladhara" and I am sure you can clearly see > > > phrase > > > > > in the quotation. > > > > > > > > > > The reference is taken originally from Sanatkumaara tantra, > > > expanded > > > > > in soubhagya bhaskaram and forms part of vishesha vyaakhya > on the > > > > > phrase "bisa tantu taneeyasee". > > > > > > > > > > If you want the entire vyaakhya, i have no objection in > giving > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not deviating from the original thread? Where is > the > > > > > reference > > > > > > to the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious? And may I know > > > as to > > > > > why > > > > > > the shloka describing the state of Kundalini at Muladhara > is > > > > > excluded? I > > > > > > am sure you know that Kundalini does not arise from > > > Swadhishthana. > > > > > Would > > > > > > you bekind enough to quote the source sothat I could try to > > > > > locate the > > > > > > complete verse myself? > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "agnim swaadhistaanagataagnitejomayeem > kundalineemichhdhwam. > > > > > > > icchaadandenaahatyothapayadhwam....athaeva > > > > > rodanaavasthasaahityaat. > > > > > > > kulakundaadutthaapanasyotpatti roopatwaaccha sadya > utpannaa > > > > > > > kumaareetyuchyathe. yoshittaruNee kaarunyalakshaNaa > > > > > > > sooryeNaahtaaduparibhaage saahityaatpativrataa. patim > > > > > > > brahmarandhrastham kaameshwaram vratayati bhunkte > payovratam > > > > > > > braahmaNasyethi prayogaaccha evam koumaarataaruNya > > > > > > > sambhogairarishtam shubham peeyusha varshaNaroopam > anyadapi > > > > > > > yatkinchitsaakriyathe karoti tatsarvam > > > agnisswaadhisthaanagatho > > > > > > > anuvedhati saadhayathi. agnijwalanenaiva chandramandalam > > > > > dravateethi > > > > > > > bhavaH" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you can translate this and understand that > > > Kundalini > > > > > has > > > > > > > the ability to do "shubham" only when it matures (utpatti > > > > > avastha) > > > > > > > and unites with Shiva causing the amrita varsham, through > > > the > > > > > medium > > > > > > > of agni. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from > > > scriptures > > > > > > > that you > > > > > > > > have that state that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious. > > > That > > > > > will > > > > > > > help > > > > > > > > enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja and > other > > > > > Kootas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me in the body divisions given according > to > > > > > kootas, > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? Let's > get > > > this > > > > > > > straight > > > > > > > > > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. > Please > > > do > > > > > not > > > > > > > worry > > > > > > > > > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, and > can > > > > > provide > > > > > > > > > them by the ton:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean the > > > portion > > > > > upto > > > > > > > neck > > > > > > > > > or the portion upto forehead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the > > > same > > > > > > > place, > > > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your > > > arguments > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support > of > > > your > > > > > > > argument > > > > > > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the > > > shloka I > > > > > > > sent > > > > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > > > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the > > > head > > > > > > > come...in > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any > > > other > > > > > koota > > > > > > > > > defined > > > > > > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do > you > > > > > imply > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of > > > astrology > > > > > > > mappings > > > > > > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a > simple > > > > > > > principle in > > > > > > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, > unless > > > > > you are > > > > > > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or > want > > > to > > > > > > > confuse > > > > > > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya > > > intended > > > > > > > that "bisa > > > > > > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt > kundalini > > > at > > > > > > > Mooladhara > > > > > > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately > > > > > after "mooladharaika > > > > > > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari > > > samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a > > > python > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser > than at > > > > > > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not > agni > > > > > > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" > happens > > > only > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and > is > > > > > ignited > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but > a > > > > > group of > > > > > > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating > > > the > > > > > vacha. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija > > > protect > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > throat > > > > > > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And > her > > > > > > > principal > > > > > > > > > abode > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. > However > > > if > > > > > you > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant > you > > > are > > > > > > > free to > > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm > > > beeja > > > > > is > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > dear > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you > > > need the > > > > > > > > > reference). > > > > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that > Kundalini > > > > > means > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that > > > certainly > > > > > does > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > mean > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k...{flI devta > > > > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé > devatä > > > > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k...lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä > > > > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in > Rudrayamala > > > > > Tantra. > > > > > > > Do > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > > > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is > described > > > as > > > > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read > the > > > > > > > yamalas, i > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding > > > kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" > and > > > > > talks of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with > Shiva....mahe > > > > > utsave > > > > > > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH > tatparataa > > > > > yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu > > > taneeyasee" > > > > > is > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened > > > kundalini, > > > > > > > let me > > > > > > > > > quote > > > > > > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. > > > > > uttishtatha. > > > > > > > maa > > > > > > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up > ( > > > the > > > > > > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on > > > > > Kundalini. > > > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha > > > (anger), > > > > > lobha > > > > > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and > > > maatsarya > > > > > > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" > imply > > > > > among > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > > > > > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya > > > swaroopini" > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes > understanding > > > of > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > facets. > > > > > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which > can be > > > > > routed > > > > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends > the > > > > > same? > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good > > > use, > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and > Parvati, > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > power, > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures > the > > > > > > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of > > > Shakti is > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik > and > > > > > krura. I > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can > give > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. > You > > > can > > > > > > > refer > > > > > > > > > to all > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than > > > winning or > > > > > > > losing > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as > an > > > > > > > exploration > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the > > > case, I > > > > > > > see no > > > > > > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early > > > age are > > > > > > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did > > > not die > > > > > > > young. > > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read > > > > > Swamiji's > > > > > > > > > biography > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times > despite of > > > > > > > apparent > > > > > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's > chart > > > > > confirms > > > > > > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I > did > > > not > > > > > know > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if > > > there > > > > > is a > > > > > > > Kuja > > > > > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please > > > do not > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into > > > > > astrological > > > > > > > > > analysis > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the > discussions > > > are > > > > > on > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no > where. > > > The > > > > > two > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time > an > > > > > event but > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart > you > > > have > > > > > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu > deha > > > in > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you > > > read > > > > > my > > > > > > > mail, > > > > > > > > > I did > > > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, > > > only > > > > > that > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > gave > > > > > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma > > > and > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on > the > > > > > topic, > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > > > > > > > Vivekananda's > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and > causing > > > a > > > > > > > powerful > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji > > > lived, > > > > > > > you may > > > > > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as > > > > > Mahakrura. > > > > > > > Think > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, > > > before > > > > > > > declaring > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an > > > icchamrityu > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > looking at > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe > > > that he > > > > > > > passed > > > > > > > > > away > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909- > 02- > > > 10 > > > > > > > (3:59:13 > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - > 1903- > > > 08-27 > > > > > > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902- > 09- > > > 12 > > > > > > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902- > 07- > > > 07 > > > > > > > (5:06:28 > > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - > 1902- > > > 07-06 > > > > > > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07- > 05 > > > > > > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, > Venus > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu > is > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > house of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn > is > > > the > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his > early > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK > > > aspecting 7th > > > > > > > house, > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you > ignore > > > the > > > > > > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the > 10th > > > > > house? I > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja > yoga:-- > > > )) > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > without the > > > > > > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact > he > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > wherever > > > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to > > > the > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars > in > > > the > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I > think > > > the > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You > > > have > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > commented > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the > > > bhava > > > > > that > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already > > > stated > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to > > > great > > > > > > > people, > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or > otherwise > > > of > > > > > what I > > > > > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a > > > malignant > > > > > > > sarcoma > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in > > > his > > > > > > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent > results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to > > > examine > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the > > > 3rd > > > > > lord > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's > > > chart, > > > > > rahu > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's > > > effects...all of > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th > > > house and > > > > > > > ketu > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's > > > effect, > > > > > if at > > > > > > > > > all, was > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955- > 02- > > > 03 > > > > > > > (2:05:32 > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951- > 02- > > > 21 > > > > > > > (8:49:14 > > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950- > 05- > > > 18 > > > > > > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950- > 04- > > > 20 > > > > > > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - > 1950- > > > 04-14 > > > > > > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950- > 04-14 > > > > > > > (12:47:04 > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact > that > > > the > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I > > > think > > > > > their > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa > > > totally > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider > the > > > > > above > > > > > > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other > charts/issues > > > in > > > > > my > > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars > > > strong as > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility > even > > > > > when in > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam > shane > > > > > > > smritam has > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not > considered > > > > > > > Mars/Venus > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. > > > Please go > > > > > > > through > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and > > > Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background > > > and > > > > > that > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for > its > > > soft > > > > > > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics > > > giving > > > > > > > P.M. > > > > > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. > Yoga > > > > > > > attributed > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to > imagine > > > > > they > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or > all > > > > > with > > > > > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts > of > > > > > India > > > > > > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages > > > gave us > > > > > > > > > principles > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope > > > using > > > > > > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka > > > giving > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an > old > > > > > classic > > > > > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem > to > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by > Dr. > > > > > Raman, > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the > > > shloka > > > > > I > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with > Shri > > > B.V. > > > > > > > Raman > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give > good > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also > > > > > disagree > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it > > > > > contrary to > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, > where I > > > > > find > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura > > > nor > > > > > that > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in > > > lagna and > > > > > > > mars > > > > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd > > > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars > in > > > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: > Exalted > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > (9H) > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, > > > while > > > > > > > > > debilitated > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > > > > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to > > > Saturn's > > > > > > > > > placement in > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong > > > Saturn > > > > > gives > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the > saying > > > is > > > > > > > because i > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% > > > > > 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the > saying > > > is, > > > > > that > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha- > krura) > > > and > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > shubha > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when > > > weak > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH > > > smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I > > > was 9 > > > > > years > > > > > > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you > didn't > > > > > notice > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that > > > Rahu is > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally > > > good, > > > > > then > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart > > > because > > > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when > weak, > > > > > give > > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while > strong > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were > weak, > > > he > > > > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly > > > > > combust > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major > results of > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because > > > according > > > > > > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher > > > > > shadbala > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request > > > you to > > > > > > > read the > > > > > > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he > > > died, > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > nature > > > > > > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest > > > persons in > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because > > > > > Parashurama > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to > > > learn > > > > > > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support > > > Duryodhana. > > > > > > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But > > > it's to > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > borne in > > > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to > please > > > > > > > Duryodhana, > > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything > > > personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house > > > from > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the > natural > > > > > zodiac, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, > > > represents > > > > > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, > the > > > lord > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > death, > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. > > > So, the > > > > > > > Rudras > > > > > > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun > > > > > resides in > > > > > > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. > So > > > he > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I > > > > > referred to > > > > > > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as > > > antaraatma > > > > > and > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the > > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> <% > > > 40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for > the > > > > > results > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your > > > father > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > promotions > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during > that > > > > > time. > > > > > > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young > > > age of > > > > > 9 > > > > > > > or so > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved > you > > > > > did not > > > > > > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about > > > Rahu > > > > > and > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by > > > conjunction, as > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > guessed > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a > > > Dharmakarmaadhipati > > > > > yoga > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its > > > dasha > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not > > > because I > > > > > > > say so > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when > > > > > conjunct a > > > > > > > papa > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of > > > Artha > > > > > > > trikona > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. > > > Though > > > > > > > claimed > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana > > > (8th) > > > > > and > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th > is > > > more > > > > > > > > > popularly > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. > If > > > it > > > > > is > > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why > would > > > Sun > > > > > be at > > > > > > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not > > > > > represent > > > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was > excellent > > > > > too. My > > > > > > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days > were > > > great > > > > > > > and i > > > > > > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in > creative > > > > > > > writing, > > > > > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a > > > > > student, I > > > > > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify > this, > > > if > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, > > > but > > > > > being > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think > Rahu > > > is > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is > > > malefic > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also > represent > > > > > burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a > > > place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all > > > water > > > > > > > bodies, > > > > > > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has > the > > > > > best > > > > > > > spam > > > > > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > > > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > --- > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out- > of- > > > > > date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus > Database: > > > > > > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > message > > > have > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > --- > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > > > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > have > > > been > > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------ > --- > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New > > > Version is > > > > > > > > > radically > > > > > > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to use" -- The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ > --- > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection > > > and > > > > > 1GB > > > > > > > > > storage > > > > > > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- > --- > > > ---- > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've > > > developed > > > > > the > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > new Security Centre. > > > http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. > <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- > --- > > > -- > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - > > > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in > its > > > > > > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > - > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > > > Date: > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now. > > > > > http://www..co.uk/blackberry > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>> > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > Date: > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > All New Mail -- Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our > SpamGuard > > > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, Please give the tantrik / yogic meaning, so that my understanding becomes complete. Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Lakshmi, > It is apparent you have not understood the yogic meaning behind the > lalitopakhyana. So our discussions are not likely to bring any fruits. > It is strange you do apply different meaning to Kunda to suit your > arguments. I am sure you will not find the anand on the way of Kula > patha in "kulapathaanandaikabeejanana" and giving the tantrik meaning > here would be superfluous. > > I would prefer if you understand Mother instead of only thinking about > her. I am sure you can do that if you focus in that direction. > > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > Sir, may i request you to read Lalithopakhyanam? One can understand > > from where the "chidagni" originated....infact, the entire > > concept/context of "chidagni kunda sambhuta". > > > > I wanted to know your understanding > > of "kulapathaanandaikabeejanana". If you can give it, i'd welcome > > it, otherwise, please leave it. > > > > Thanks for making me think so much of Mother. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > I think the fault lies with me and my age in not trying to read > > the > > > entire shlokas through and trying out all the permutation > > combinations > > > that I normally do before come to any conclusion as to the meaning > > of > > > Sanskrit Shlokas, especially those to do with spirituality, > > jyotisha and > > > tantra. > > > > > > I can see your view point but would also like to draw your > > attention to > > > the beginning of Shri Lalita SN which says, > > > "cidagnI kunDa sambhUtaa devakaarya samudyataa" > > > The nearest translation is one who is born in the fire pit of Pure > > > copiousness and intent on fulfillment of wishes of the Gods. > > > > > > I am sure this will make you think again the interpretation of the > > > earlier shlokas in a different light. > > > > > > As you request, let us move ahead with other topics. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > Perhaps it was incorrect of me not to type out the quotation in > > > > Itrans. Ramesh recently upgraded /migrated the system to a new > > OS, > > > > so my ITrans got wiped out. > > > > > > > > I could have installed it again, but I guess I was just being > > lazy. > > > > I am sorry I have caused you inconvenience in this regard. > > > > > > > > Sir, the shloka/quotation says that one (the sadhaka) must hit > > the > > > > dormant kundalini with the agni of one's iccha, repeatedly, > > until it > > > > turns up and starts to move. The immature/unripe kundalini at > > > > Mooladhara, matures in the process of reaching brahma randhra and > > > > unites with shiva thereat, so that it can cause "shubham" and > > Amrita > > > > varsha. Agni causes this transformation. > > > > > > > > I am sure you understand the allegory & the process of > > > > demagnetization of kundalini involved here. > > > > > > > > Sir, I have only one request, let's move on ahead with new > > > > understanding. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > That was certainly my fault. Signs of me getting old. The text > > > > being in > > > > > roman script, I was deficient in not reading it through. It was > > > > indeed > > > > > negligent of me to read the first verse and then read some > > other > > > > verses > > > > > not in order. So I assumed that the description is journey of > > > > Kundalini > > > > > or Chitashakti, from Sawdhishthana onwards. I am more > > comfortable > > > > with > > > > > Devanagari or ULW Palladio fonts as the spelling of "ta" is > > done > > > > > differently in north and south. > > > > > There are many other Devanagari letters where this occurs. But > > as > > > > I said > > > > > I can not escape blame on that account. > > > > > > > > > > By the way does the shloka specifically, or by inference, > > mention > > > > that > > > > > Kundalini in Kulakunda is inauspicious as is being made out by > > > > you? That > > > > > is the basic question. Kindly let me know. > > > > > > > > > > The very word Kula Kunda indicates that the Kunda is the > > natural > > > > > dwelling of the Kula or Shakti. So does the shloka mean that > > she > > > > is > > > > > inauspicious in own abode? Kindly enlighten. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you have not read/understood the sanskrit properly. > > There > > > > > > are references to kundalini being dormant, kundalini being > > > > activated > > > > > > kundalini becoming auspicious. As far as my limited knowledge > > > > goes, > > > > > > kulakunda is "mooladhara" and I am sure you can clearly see > > > > phrase > > > > > > in the quotation. > > > > > > > > > > > > The reference is taken originally from Sanatkumaara tantra, > > > > expanded > > > > > > in soubhagya bhaskaram and forms part of vishesha vyaakhya > > on the > > > > > > phrase "bisa tantu taneeyasee". > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want the entire vyaakhya, i have no objection in > > giving > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not deviating from the original thread? Where is > > the > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > to the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious? And may I know > > > > as to > > > > > > why > > > > > > > the shloka describing the state of Kundalini at Muladhara > > is > > > > > > excluded? I > > > > > > > am sure you know that Kundalini does not arise from > > > > Swadhishthana. > > > > > > Would > > > > > > > you bekind enough to quote the source sothat I could try to > > > > > > locate the > > > > > > > complete verse myself? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "agnim swaadhistaanagataagnitejomayeem > > kundalineemichhdhwam. > > > > > > > > icchaadandenaahatyothapayadhwam....athaeva > > > > > > rodanaavasthasaahityaat. > > > > > > > > kulakundaadutthaapanasyotpatti roopatwaaccha sadya > > utpannaa > > > > > > > > kumaareetyuchyathe. yoshittaruNee kaarunyalakshaNaa > > > > > > > > sooryeNaahtaaduparibhaage saahityaatpativrataa. patim > > > > > > > > brahmarandhrastham kaameshwaram vratayati bhunkte > > payovratam > > > > > > > > braahmaNasyethi prayogaaccha evam koumaarataaruNya > > > > > > > > sambhogairarishtam shubham peeyusha varshaNaroopam > > anyadapi > > > > > > > > yatkinchitsaakriyathe karoti tatsarvam > > > > agnisswaadhisthaanagatho > > > > > > > > anuvedhati saadhayathi. agnijwalanenaiva chandramandalam > > > > > > dravateethi > > > > > > > > bhavaH" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you can translate this and understand that > > > > Kundalini > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > the ability to do "shubham" only when it matures (utpatti > > > > > > avastha) > > > > > > > > and unites with Shiva causing the amrita varsham, through > > > > the > > > > > > medium > > > > > > > > of agni. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from > > > > scriptures > > > > > > > > that you > > > > > > > > > have that state that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious. > > > > That > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > help > > > > > > > > > enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja and > > other > > > > > > Kootas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me in the body divisions given according > > to > > > > > > kootas, > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? Let's > > get > > > > this > > > > > > > > straight > > > > > > > > > > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. > > Please > > > > do > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > worry > > > > > > > > > > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, and > > can > > > > > > provide > > > > > > > > > > them by the ton:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean the > > > > portion > > > > > > upto > > > > > > > > neck > > > > > > > > > > or the portion upto forehead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the > > > > same > > > > > > > > place, > > > > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your > > > > arguments > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support > > of > > > > your > > > > > > > > argument > > > > > > > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the > > > > shloka I > > > > > > > > sent > > > > > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > > > > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the > > > > head > > > > > > > > come...in > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any > > > > other > > > > > > koota > > > > > > > > > > defined > > > > > > > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do > > you > > > > > > imply > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of > > > > astrology > > > > > > > > mappings > > > > > > > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a > > simple > > > > > > > > principle in > > > > > > > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, > > unless > > > > > > you are > > > > > > > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or > > want > > > > to > > > > > > > > confuse > > > > > > > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya > > > > intended > > > > > > > > that "bisa > > > > > > > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt > > kundalini > > > > at > > > > > > > > Mooladhara > > > > > > > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately > > > > > > after "mooladharaika > > > > > > > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari > > > > samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a > > > > python > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser > > than at > > > > > > > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not > > agni > > > > > > > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" > > happens > > > > only > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and > > is > > > > > > ignited > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but > > a > > > > > > group of > > > > > > > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating > > > > the > > > > > > vacha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija > > > > protect > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > throat > > > > > > > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And > > her > > > > > > > > principal > > > > > > > > > > abode > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. > > However > > > > if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant > > you > > > > are > > > > > > > > free to > > > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm > > > > beeja > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > > dear > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you > > > > need the > > > > > > > > > > reference). > > > > > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that > > Kundalini > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that > > > > certainly > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > mean > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k...{flI devta > > > > > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé > > devatä > > > > > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k...lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä > > > > > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in > > Rudrayamala > > > > > > Tantra. > > > > > > > > Do > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > > > > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is > > described > > > > as > > > > > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read > > the > > > > > > > > yamalas, i > > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding > > > > kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" > > and > > > > > > talks of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with > > Shiva....mahe > > > > > > utsave > > > > > > > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH > > tatparataa > > > > > > yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu > > > > taneeyasee" > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened > > > > kundalini, > > > > > > > > let me > > > > > > > > > > quote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. > > > > > > uttishtatha. > > > > > > > > maa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up > > ( > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on > > > > > > Kundalini. > > > > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha > > > > (anger), > > > > > > lobha > > > > > > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and > > > > maatsarya > > > > > > > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" > > imply > > > > > > among > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > > > > > > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya > > > > swaroopini" > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes > > understanding > > > > of > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > facets. > > > > > > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which > > can be > > > > > > routed > > > > > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends > > the > > > > > > same? > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good > > > > use, > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and > > Parvati, > > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > power, > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures > > the > > > > > > > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of > > > > Shakti is > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik > > and > > > > > > krura. I > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can > > give > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. > > You > > > > can > > > > > > > > refer > > > > > > > > > > to all > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than > > > > winning or > > > > > > > > losing > > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as > > an > > > > > > > > exploration > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the > > > > case, I > > > > > > > > see no > > > > > > > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early > > > > age are > > > > > > > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did > > > > not die > > > > > > > > young. > > > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read > > > > > > Swamiji's > > > > > > > > > > biography > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times > > despite of > > > > > > > > apparent > > > > > > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's > > chart > > > > > > confirms > > > > > > > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I > > did > > > > not > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if > > > > there > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > Kuja > > > > > > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please > > > > do not > > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into > > > > > > astrological > > > > > > > > > > analysis > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the > > discussions > > > > are > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no > > where. > > > > The > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time > > an > > > > > > event but > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart > > you > > > > have > > > > > > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu > > deha > > > > in > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you > > > > read > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > mail, > > > > > > > > > > I did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, > > > > only > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > gave > > > > > > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma > > > > and > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on > > the > > > > > > topic, > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > > > > > > > > Vivekananda's > > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and > > causing > > > > a > > > > > > > > powerful > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji > > > > lived, > > > > > > > > you may > > > > > > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as > > > > > > Mahakrura. > > > > > > > > Think > > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, > > > > before > > > > > > > > declaring > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an > > > > icchamrityu > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > looking at > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe > > > > that he > > > > > > > > passed > > > > > > > > > > away > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909- > > 02- > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > (3:59:13 > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - > > 1903- > > > > 08-27 > > > > > > > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902- > > 09- > > > > 12 > > > > > > > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902- > > 07- > > > > 07 > > > > > > > > (5:06:28 > > > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - > > 1902- > > > > 07-06 > > > > > > > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07- > > 05 > > > > > > > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, > > Venus > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu > > is > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > house of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn > > is > > > > the > > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his > > early > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK > > > > aspecting 7th > > > > > > > > house, > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you > > ignore > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the > > 10th > > > > > > house? I > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja > > yoga:-- > > > > )) > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > without the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact > > he > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > wherever > > > > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to > > > > the > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars > > in > > > > the > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I > > think > > > > the > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You > > > > have > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > commented > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the > > > > bhava > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already > > > > stated > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to > > > > great > > > > > > > > people, > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or > > otherwise > > > > of > > > > > > what I > > > > > > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a > > > > malignant > > > > > > > > sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in > > > > his > > > > > > > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent > > results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to > > > > examine > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the > > > > 3rd > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's > > > > chart, > > > > > > rahu > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's > > > > effects...all of > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th > > > > house and > > > > > > > > ketu > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's > > > > effect, > > > > > > if at > > > > > > > > > > all, was > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955- > > 02- > > > > 03 > > > > > > > > (2:05:32 > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951- > > 02- > > > > 21 > > > > > > > > (8:49:14 > > > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950- > > 05- > > > > 18 > > > > > > > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950- > > 04- > > > > 20 > > > > > > > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - > > 1950- > > > > 04-14 > > > > > > > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950- > > 04-14 > > > > > > > > (12:47:04 > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact > > that > > > > the > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I > > > > think > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa > > > > totally > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider > > the > > > > > > above > > > > > > > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other > > charts/issues > > > > in > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars > > > > strong as > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility > > even > > > > > > when in > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam > > shane > > > > > > > > smritam has > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not > > considered > > > > > > > > Mars/Venus > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. > > > > Please go > > > > > > > > through > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and > > > > Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background > > > > and > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for > > its > > > > soft > > > > > > > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics > > > > giving > > > > > > > > P.M. > > > > > > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. > > Yoga > > > > > > > > attributed > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to > > imagine > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or > > all > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts > > of > > > > > > India > > > > > > > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages > > > > gave us > > > > > > > > > > principles > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope > > > > using > > > > > > > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka > > > > giving > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an > > old > > > > > > classic > > > > > > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem > > to > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by > > Dr. > > > > > > Raman, > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the > > > > shloka > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with > > Shri > > > > B.V. > > > > > > > > Raman > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give > > good > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also > > > > > > disagree > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it > > > > > > contrary to > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, > > where I > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura > > > > nor > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in > > > > lagna and > > > > > > > > mars > > > > > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd > > > > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars > > in > > > > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: > > Exalted > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > (9H) > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, > > > > while > > > > > > > > > > debilitated > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > > > > > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to > > > > Saturn's > > > > > > > > > > placement in > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong > > > > Saturn > > > > > > gives > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the > > saying > > > > is > > > > > > > > because i > > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% > > > > > > 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the > > saying > > > > is, > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha- > > krura) > > > > and > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > shubha > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when > > > > weak > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH > > > > smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I > > > > was 9 > > > > > > years > > > > > > > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you > > didn't > > > > > > notice > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the > > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that > > > > Rahu is > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally > > > > good, > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart > > > > because > > > > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when > > weak, > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while > > strong > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were > > weak, > > > > he > > > > > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly > > > > > > combust > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major > > results of > > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because > > > > according > > > > > > > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher > > > > > > shadbala > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request > > > > you to > > > > > > > > read the > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he > > > > died, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > nature > > > > > > > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest > > > > persons in > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because > > > > > > Parashurama > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to > > > > learn > > > > > > > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support > > > > Duryodhana. > > > > > > > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But > > > > it's to > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > borne in > > > > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to > > please > > > > > > > > Duryodhana, > > > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything > > > > personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house > > > > from > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the > > natural > > > > > > zodiac, > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, > > > > represents > > > > > > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, > > the > > > > lord > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > death, > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. > > > > So, the > > > > > > > > Rudras > > > > > > > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun > > > > > > resides in > > > > > > > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. > > So > > > > he > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I > > > > > > referred to > > > > > > > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as > > > > antaraatma > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the > > > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> <% > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for > > the > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your > > > > father > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > promotions > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during > > that > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young > > > > age of > > > > > > 9 > > > > > > > > or so > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved > > you > > > > > > did not > > > > > > > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about > > > > Rahu > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by > > > > conjunction, as > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > guessed > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a > > > > Dharmakarmaadhipati > > > > > > yoga > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not > > > > because I > > > > > > > > say so > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when > > > > > > conjunct a > > > > > > > > papa > > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of > > > > Artha > > > > > > > > trikona > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. > > > > Though > > > > > > > > claimed > > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana > > > > (8th) > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th > > is > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > popularly > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. > > If > > > > it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why > > would > > > > Sun > > > > > > be at > > > > > > > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not > > > > > > represent > > > > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was > > excellent > > > > > > too. My > > > > > > > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days > > were > > > > great > > > > > > > > and i > > > > > > > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in > > creative > > > > > > > > writing, > > > > > > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a > > > > > > student, I > > > > > > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify > > this, > > > > if > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, > > > > but > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think > > Rahu > > > > is > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is > > > > malefic > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also > > represent > > > > > > burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a > > > > place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all > > > > water > > > > > > > > bodies, > > > > > > > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has > > the > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > spam > > > > > > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > > > < <>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ---- > > --- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out- > > of- > > > > > > date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus > > Database: > > > > > > > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > > message > > > > have > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- ---- > > --- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > > > > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > > have > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- ---- > > --- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New > > > > Version is > > > > > > > > > > radically > > > > > > > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to use" -- The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- ---- > > --- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection > > > > and > > > > > > 1GB > > > > > > > > > > storage > > > > > > > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ ---- > > --- > > > > ---- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've > > > > developed > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > new Security Centre. > > > > http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. > > <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- ---- > > --- > > > > -- > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - > > > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in > > its > > > > > > > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- ---- > > - > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now. > > > > > > http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>> > > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ - > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > > Date: > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > All New Mail -- Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our > > SpamGuard > > > > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, Please give the tantrik / yogic meaning, so that my understanding becomes complete. Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Lakshmi, > It is apparent you have not understood the yogic meaning behind the > lalitopakhyana. So our discussions are not likely to bring any fruits. > It is strange you do apply different meaning to Kunda to suit your > arguments. I am sure you will not find the anand on the way of Kula > patha in "kulapathaanandaikabeejanana" and giving the tantrik meaning > here would be superfluous. > > I would prefer if you understand Mother instead of only thinking about > her. I am sure you can do that if you focus in that direction. > > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > Sir, may i request you to read Lalithopakhyanam? One can understand > > from where the "chidagni" originated....infact, the entire > > concept/context of "chidagni kunda sambhuta". > > > > I wanted to know your understanding > > of "kulapathaanandaikabeejanana". If you can give it, i'd welcome > > it, otherwise, please leave it. > > > > Thanks for making me think so much of Mother. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > I think the fault lies with me and my age in not trying to read > > the > > > entire shlokas through and trying out all the permutation > > combinations > > > that I normally do before come to any conclusion as to the meaning > > of > > > Sanskrit Shlokas, especially those to do with spirituality, > > jyotisha and > > > tantra. > > > > > > I can see your view point but would also like to draw your > > attention to > > > the beginning of Shri Lalita SN which says, > > > "cidagnI kunDa sambhUtaa devakaarya samudyataa" > > > The nearest translation is one who is born in the fire pit of Pure > > > copiousness and intent on fulfillment of wishes of the Gods. > > > > > > I am sure this will make you think again the interpretation of the > > > earlier shlokas in a different light. > > > > > > As you request, let us move ahead with other topics. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > Perhaps it was incorrect of me not to type out the quotation in > > > > Itrans. Ramesh recently upgraded /migrated the system to a new > > OS, > > > > so my ITrans got wiped out. > > > > > > > > I could have installed it again, but I guess I was just being > > lazy. > > > > I am sorry I have caused you inconvenience in this regard. > > > > > > > > Sir, the shloka/quotation says that one (the sadhaka) must hit > > the > > > > dormant kundalini with the agni of one's iccha, repeatedly, > > until it > > > > turns up and starts to move. The immature/unripe kundalini at > > > > Mooladhara, matures in the process of reaching brahma randhra and > > > > unites with shiva thereat, so that it can cause "shubham" and > > Amrita > > > > varsha. Agni causes this transformation. > > > > > > > > I am sure you understand the allegory & the process of > > > > demagnetization of kundalini involved here. > > > > > > > > Sir, I have only one request, let's move on ahead with new > > > > understanding. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > That was certainly my fault. Signs of me getting old. The text > > > > being in > > > > > roman script, I was deficient in not reading it through. It was > > > > indeed > > > > > negligent of me to read the first verse and then read some > > other > > > > verses > > > > > not in order. So I assumed that the description is journey of > > > > Kundalini > > > > > or Chitashakti, from Sawdhishthana onwards. I am more > > comfortable > > > > with > > > > > Devanagari or ULW Palladio fonts as the spelling of "ta" is > > done > > > > > differently in north and south. > > > > > There are many other Devanagari letters where this occurs. But > > as > > > > I said > > > > > I can not escape blame on that account. > > > > > > > > > > By the way does the shloka specifically, or by inference, > > mention > > > > that > > > > > Kundalini in Kulakunda is inauspicious as is being made out by > > > > you? That > > > > > is the basic question. Kindly let me know. > > > > > > > > > > The very word Kula Kunda indicates that the Kunda is the > > natural > > > > > dwelling of the Kula or Shakti. So does the shloka mean that > > she > > > > is > > > > > inauspicious in own abode? Kindly enlighten. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you have not read/understood the sanskrit properly. > > There > > > > > > are references to kundalini being dormant, kundalini being > > > > activated > > > > > > kundalini becoming auspicious. As far as my limited knowledge > > > > goes, > > > > > > kulakunda is "mooladhara" and I am sure you can clearly see > > > > phrase > > > > > > in the quotation. > > > > > > > > > > > > The reference is taken originally from Sanatkumaara tantra, > > > > expanded > > > > > > in soubhagya bhaskaram and forms part of vishesha vyaakhya > > on the > > > > > > phrase "bisa tantu taneeyasee". > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want the entire vyaakhya, i have no objection in > > giving > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not deviating from the original thread? Where is > > the > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > to the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious? And may I know > > > > as to > > > > > > why > > > > > > > the shloka describing the state of Kundalini at Muladhara > > is > > > > > > excluded? I > > > > > > > am sure you know that Kundalini does not arise from > > > > Swadhishthana. > > > > > > Would > > > > > > > you bekind enough to quote the source sothat I could try to > > > > > > locate the > > > > > > > complete verse myself? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "agnim swaadhistaanagataagnitejomayeem > > kundalineemichhdhwam. > > > > > > > > icchaadandenaahatyothapayadhwam....athaeva > > > > > > rodanaavasthasaahityaat. > > > > > > > > kulakundaadutthaapanasyotpatti roopatwaaccha sadya > > utpannaa > > > > > > > > kumaareetyuchyathe. yoshittaruNee kaarunyalakshaNaa > > > > > > > > sooryeNaahtaaduparibhaage saahityaatpativrataa. patim > > > > > > > > brahmarandhrastham kaameshwaram vratayati bhunkte > > payovratam > > > > > > > > braahmaNasyethi prayogaaccha evam koumaarataaruNya > > > > > > > > sambhogairarishtam shubham peeyusha varshaNaroopam > > anyadapi > > > > > > > > yatkinchitsaakriyathe karoti tatsarvam > > > > agnisswaadhisthaanagatho > > > > > > > > anuvedhati saadhayathi. agnijwalanenaiva chandramandalam > > > > > > dravateethi > > > > > > > > bhavaH" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you can translate this and understand that > > > > Kundalini > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > the ability to do "shubham" only when it matures (utpatti > > > > > > avastha) > > > > > > > > and unites with Shiva causing the amrita varsham, through > > > > the > > > > > > medium > > > > > > > > of agni. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from > > > > scriptures > > > > > > > > that you > > > > > > > > > have that state that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious. > > > > That > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > help > > > > > > > > > enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja and > > other > > > > > > Kootas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me in the body divisions given according > > to > > > > > > kootas, > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? Let's > > get > > > > this > > > > > > > > straight > > > > > > > > > > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. > > Please > > > > do > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > worry > > > > > > > > > > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, and > > can > > > > > > provide > > > > > > > > > > them by the ton:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean the > > > > portion > > > > > > upto > > > > > > > > neck > > > > > > > > > > or the portion upto forehead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the > > > > same > > > > > > > > place, > > > > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your > > > > arguments > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support > > of > > > > your > > > > > > > > argument > > > > > > > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the > > > > shloka I > > > > > > > > sent > > > > > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > > > > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the > > > > head > > > > > > > > come...in > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any > > > > other > > > > > > koota > > > > > > > > > > defined > > > > > > > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do > > you > > > > > > imply > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of > > > > astrology > > > > > > > > mappings > > > > > > > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a > > simple > > > > > > > > principle in > > > > > > > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, > > unless > > > > > > you are > > > > > > > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or > > want > > > > to > > > > > > > > confuse > > > > > > > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya > > > > intended > > > > > > > > that "bisa > > > > > > > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt > > kundalini > > > > at > > > > > > > > Mooladhara > > > > > > > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately > > > > > > after "mooladharaika > > > > > > > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari > > > > samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a > > > > python > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser > > than at > > > > > > > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not > > agni > > > > > > > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" > > happens > > > > only > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and > > is > > > > > > ignited > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but > > a > > > > > > group of > > > > > > > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating > > > > the > > > > > > vacha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija > > > > protect > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > throat > > > > > > > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And > > her > > > > > > > > principal > > > > > > > > > > abode > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. > > However > > > > if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant > > you > > > > are > > > > > > > > free to > > > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm > > > > beeja > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > > dear > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you > > > > need the > > > > > > > > > > reference). > > > > > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that > > Kundalini > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that > > > > certainly > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > mean > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k...{flI devta > > > > > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé > > devatä > > > > > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k...lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä > > > > > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in > > Rudrayamala > > > > > > Tantra. > > > > > > > > Do > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > > > > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is > > described > > > > as > > > > > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read > > the > > > > > > > > yamalas, i > > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding > > > > kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" > > and > > > > > > talks of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with > > Shiva....mahe > > > > > > utsave > > > > > > > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH > > tatparataa > > > > > > yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu > > > > taneeyasee" > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened > > > > kundalini, > > > > > > > > let me > > > > > > > > > > quote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. > > > > > > uttishtatha. > > > > > > > > maa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up > > ( > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on > > > > > > Kundalini. > > > > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha > > > > (anger), > > > > > > lobha > > > > > > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and > > > > maatsarya > > > > > > > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" > > imply > > > > > > among > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > > > > > > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya > > > > swaroopini" > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes > > understanding > > > > of > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > facets. > > > > > > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which > > can be > > > > > > routed > > > > > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends > > the > > > > > > same? > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good > > > > use, > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and > > Parvati, > > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > power, > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures > > the > > > > > > > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of > > > > Shakti is > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik > > and > > > > > > krura. I > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can > > give > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. > > You > > > > can > > > > > > > > refer > > > > > > > > > > to all > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than > > > > winning or > > > > > > > > losing > > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as > > an > > > > > > > > exploration > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the > > > > case, I > > > > > > > > see no > > > > > > > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early > > > > age are > > > > > > > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did > > > > not die > > > > > > > > young. > > > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read > > > > > > Swamiji's > > > > > > > > > > biography > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times > > despite of > > > > > > > > apparent > > > > > > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's > > chart > > > > > > confirms > > > > > > > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I > > did > > > > not > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if > > > > there > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > Kuja > > > > > > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please > > > > do not > > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into > > > > > > astrological > > > > > > > > > > analysis > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the > > discussions > > > > are > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no > > where. > > > > The > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time > > an > > > > > > event but > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart > > you > > > > have > > > > > > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu > > deha > > > > in > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you > > > > read > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > mail, > > > > > > > > > > I did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, > > > > only > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > gave > > > > > > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma > > > > and > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on > > the > > > > > > topic, > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > > > > > > > > Vivekananda's > > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and > > causing > > > > a > > > > > > > > powerful > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji > > > > lived, > > > > > > > > you may > > > > > > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as > > > > > > Mahakrura. > > > > > > > > Think > > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, > > > > before > > > > > > > > declaring > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an > > > > icchamrityu > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > looking at > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe > > > > that he > > > > > > > > passed > > > > > > > > > > away > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909- > > 02- > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > (3:59:13 > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - > > 1903- > > > > 08-27 > > > > > > > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902- > > 09- > > > > 12 > > > > > > > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902- > > 07- > > > > 07 > > > > > > > > (5:06:28 > > > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - > > 1902- > > > > 07-06 > > > > > > > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07- > > 05 > > > > > > > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, > > Venus > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu > > is > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > house of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn > > is > > > > the > > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his > > early > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK > > > > aspecting 7th > > > > > > > > house, > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you > > ignore > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the > > 10th > > > > > > house? I > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja > > yoga:-- > > > > )) > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > without the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact > > he > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > wherever > > > > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to > > > > the > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars > > in > > > > the > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I > > think > > > > the > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You > > > > have > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > commented > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the > > > > bhava > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already > > > > stated > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to > > > > great > > > > > > > > people, > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or > > otherwise > > > > of > > > > > > what I > > > > > > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a > > > > malignant > > > > > > > > sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in > > > > his > > > > > > > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent > > results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to > > > > examine > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the > > > > 3rd > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's > > > > chart, > > > > > > rahu > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's > > > > effects...all of > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th > > > > house and > > > > > > > > ketu > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's > > > > effect, > > > > > > if at > > > > > > > > > > all, was > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955- > > 02- > > > > 03 > > > > > > > > (2:05:32 > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951- > > 02- > > > > 21 > > > > > > > > (8:49:14 > > > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950- > > 05- > > > > 18 > > > > > > > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950- > > 04- > > > > 20 > > > > > > > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - > > 1950- > > > > 04-14 > > > > > > > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950- > > 04-14 > > > > > > > > (12:47:04 > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact > > that > > > > the > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I > > > > think > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa > > > > totally > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider > > the > > > > > > above > > > > > > > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other > > charts/issues > > > > in > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars > > > > strong as > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility > > even > > > > > > when in > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam > > shane > > > > > > > > smritam has > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not > > considered > > > > > > > > Mars/Venus > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. > > > > Please go > > > > > > > > through > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and > > > > Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background > > > > and > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for > > its > > > > soft > > > > > > > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics > > > > giving > > > > > > > > P.M. > > > > > > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. > > Yoga > > > > > > > > attributed > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to > > imagine > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or > > all > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts > > of > > > > > > India > > > > > > > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages > > > > gave us > > > > > > > > > > principles > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope > > > > using > > > > > > > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka > > > > giving > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an > > old > > > > > > classic > > > > > > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem > > to > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by > > Dr. > > > > > > Raman, > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the > > > > shloka > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with > > Shri > > > > B.V. > > > > > > > > Raman > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give > > good > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also > > > > > > disagree > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it > > > > > > contrary to > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, > > where I > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura > > > > nor > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in > > > > lagna and > > > > > > > > mars > > > > > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd > > > > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars > > in > > > > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: > > Exalted > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > (9H) > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, > > > > while > > > > > > > > > > debilitated > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > > > > > > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to > > > > Saturn's > > > > > > > > > > placement in > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong > > > > Saturn > > > > > > gives > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the > > saying > > > > is > > > > > > > > because i > > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% > > > > > > 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the > > saying > > > > is, > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha- > > krura) > > > > and > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > shubha > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when > > > > weak > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH > > > > smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I > > > > was 9 > > > > > > years > > > > > > > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you > > didn't > > > > > > notice > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the > > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that > > > > Rahu is > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally > > > > good, > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart > > > > because > > > > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when > > weak, > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while > > strong > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were > > weak, > > > > he > > > > > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly > > > > > > combust > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major > > results of > > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because > > > > according > > > > > > > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher > > > > > > shadbala > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request > > > > you to > > > > > > > > read the > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he > > > > died, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > nature > > > > > > > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest > > > > persons in > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because > > > > > > Parashurama > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to > > > > learn > > > > > > > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support > > > > Duryodhana. > > > > > > > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But > > > > it's to > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > borne in > > > > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to > > please > > > > > > > > Duryodhana, > > > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything > > > > personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house > > > > from > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the > > natural > > > > > > zodiac, > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, > > > > represents > > > > > > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, > > the > > > > lord > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > death, > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. > > > > So, the > > > > > > > > Rudras > > > > > > > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun > > > > > > resides in > > > > > > > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. > > So > > > > he > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I > > > > > > referred to > > > > > > > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as > > > > antaraatma > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the > > > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> <% > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for > > the > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your > > > > father > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > promotions > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during > > that > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young > > > > age of > > > > > > 9 > > > > > > > > or so > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved > > you > > > > > > did not > > > > > > > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about > > > > Rahu > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by > > > > conjunction, as > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > guessed > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a > > > > Dharmakarmaadhipati > > > > > > yoga > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not > > > > because I > > > > > > > > say so > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when > > > > > > conjunct a > > > > > > > > papa > > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of > > > > Artha > > > > > > > > trikona > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. > > > > Though > > > > > > > > claimed > > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana > > > > (8th) > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th > > is > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > popularly > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. > > If > > > > it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why > > would > > > > Sun > > > > > > be at > > > > > > > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not > > > > > > represent > > > > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was > > excellent > > > > > > too. My > > > > > > > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days > > were > > > > great > > > > > > > > and i > > > > > > > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in > > creative > > > > > > > > writing, > > > > > > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a > > > > > > student, I > > > > > > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify > > this, > > > > if > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, > > > > but > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think > > Rahu > > > > is > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is > > > > malefic > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also > > represent > > > > > > burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a > > > > place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all > > > > water > > > > > > > > bodies, > > > > > > > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has > > the > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > spam > > > > > > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > > > < <>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ---- > > --- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out- > > of- > > > > > > date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus > > Database: > > > > > > > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > > message > > > > have > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- ---- > > --- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > > > > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > > have > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- ---- > > --- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New > > > > Version is > > > > > > > > > > radically > > > > > > > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to use" -- The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- ---- > > --- > > > > ---- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection > > > > and > > > > > > 1GB > > > > > > > > > > storage > > > > > > > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ ---- > > --- > > > > ---- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've > > > > developed > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > new Security Centre. > > > > http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. > > <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- ---- > > --- > > > > -- > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - > > > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in > > its > > > > > > > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- ---- > > - > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now. > > > > > > http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>> > > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ - > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > > Date: > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > All New Mail -- Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our > > SpamGuard > > > > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Pradeep, The root word is "mad" and is applicable to both "I/mine" as in mad- bhakta, madiya etc, as to "intoxication, passion" etc. Please refer to monier-williams online dictionary, which, btw, is but a scanned version of the originalm, though Chandrasekhar ji seems to think differently. I am sure once you refer to the dictionaries you would find a lot of phrases giving the meaning of "mada" as pride/arrogance:--)) If you seriously consider, the root "mad" talks about illusion/false feelings. Accordingly all the meanings of "mada" are derived from these roots. Hence the word "mada" can mean intoxication, passion, pride, conceit all... I have also not dismissed the other meanings of "mada" (please refer to my previous emails) and honestly examined whether "mada" as intoxication, passion etc can form an integral part of the context of the shloka...whether these are universal phenomena. But I found that "mada" as indicative of feeling of "ego/I/mine" is more universal/basic than "mada" as indicative of "intoxocation, passion". I also request you to examine the "word" in all its connotations, as applicable to the shloka. I will wait for your mail on "aham", but may not participate in the discussions during Navaratri. Btw, I hope that Chadrasekhar ji understands that "kunda" does not mean mooladhara...it's kulakunda, and kula refers to mooladhara:--)) Regards, Lakshmi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste all, I am sorry for the multiple postings. I have pressed the send button only once and the screen went into "page not found" message. when I checked up the messages list, i found that two of my messages were posted twice. I am sorry again. Regards, Lakshmi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, Your mails, so far, do not suggest that you want to see any meaning other than the verbatim, and sometimes not even that, at present. When I feel the time is right, I shall certainly tell that to you. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > Please give the tantrik / yogic meaning, so that my understanding > becomes complete. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Lakshmi, > > It is apparent you have not understood the yogic meaning behind > the > > lalitopakhyana. So our discussions are not likely to bring any > fruits. > > It is strange you do apply different meaning to Kunda to suit your > > arguments. I am sure you will not find the anand on the way of > Kula > > patha in "kulapathaanandaikabeejanana" and giving the tantrik > meaning > > here would be superfluous. > > > > I would prefer if you understand Mother instead of only thinking > about > > her. I am sure you can do that if you focus in that direction. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > Sir, may i request you to read Lalithopakhyanam? One can > understand > > > from where the "chidagni" originated....infact, the entire > > > concept/context of "chidagni kunda sambhuta". > > > > > > I wanted to know your understanding > > > of "kulapathaanandaikabeejanana". If you can give it, i'd welcome > > > it, otherwise, please leave it. > > > > > > Thanks for making me think so much of Mother. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > I think the fault lies with me and my age in not trying to read > > > the > > > > entire shlokas through and trying out all the permutation > > > combinations > > > > that I normally do before come to any conclusion as to the > meaning > > > of > > > > Sanskrit Shlokas, especially those to do with spirituality, > > > jyotisha and > > > > tantra. > > > > > > > > I can see your view point but would also like to draw your > > > attention to > > > > the beginning of Shri Lalita SN which says, > > > > "cidagnI kunDa sambhUtaa devakaarya samudyataa" > > > > The nearest translation is one who is born in the fire pit of > Pure > > > > copiousness and intent on fulfillment of wishes of the Gods. > > > > > > > > I am sure this will make you think again the interpretation of > the > > > > earlier shlokas in a different light. > > > > > > > > As you request, let us move ahead with other topics. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps it was incorrect of me not to type out the quotation > in > > > > > Itrans. Ramesh recently upgraded /migrated the system to a > new > > > OS, > > > > > so my ITrans got wiped out. > > > > > > > > > > I could have installed it again, but I guess I was just being > > > lazy. > > > > > I am sorry I have caused you inconvenience in this regard. > > > > > > > > > > Sir, the shloka/quotation says that one (the sadhaka) must > hit > > > the > > > > > dormant kundalini with the agni of one's iccha, repeatedly, > > > until it > > > > > turns up and starts to move. The immature/unripe kundalini at > > > > > Mooladhara, matures in the process of reaching brahma > randhra and > > > > > unites with shiva thereat, so that it can cause "shubham" and > > > Amrita > > > > > varsha. Agni causes this transformation. > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you understand the allegory & the process of > > > > > demagnetization of kundalini involved here. > > > > > > > > > > Sir, I have only one request, let's move on ahead with new > > > > > understanding. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > That was certainly my fault. Signs of me getting old. The > text > > > > > being in > > > > > > roman script, I was deficient in not reading it through. > It was > > > > > indeed > > > > > > negligent of me to read the first verse and then read some > > > other > > > > > verses > > > > > > not in order. So I assumed that the description is journey > of > > > > > Kundalini > > > > > > or Chitashakti, from Sawdhishthana onwards. I am more > > > comfortable > > > > > with > > > > > > Devanagari or ULW Palladio fonts as the spelling of "ta" is > > > done > > > > > > differently in north and south. > > > > > > There are many other Devanagari letters where this occurs. > But > > > as > > > > > I said > > > > > > I can not escape blame on that account. > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way does the shloka specifically, or by inference, > > > mention > > > > > that > > > > > > Kundalini in Kulakunda is inauspicious as is being made > out by > > > > > you? That > > > > > > is the basic question. Kindly let me know. > > > > > > > > > > > > The very word Kula Kunda indicates that the Kunda is the > > > natural > > > > > > dwelling of the Kula or Shakti. So does the shloka mean > that > > > she > > > > > is > > > > > > inauspicious in own abode? Kindly enlighten. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you have not read/understood the sanskrit > properly. > > > There > > > > > > > are references to kundalini being dormant, kundalini > being > > > > > activated > > > > > > > kundalini becoming auspicious. As far as my limited > knowledge > > > > > goes, > > > > > > > kulakunda is "mooladhara" and I am sure you can clearly > see > > > > > phrase > > > > > > > in the quotation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reference is taken originally from Sanatkumaara > tantra, > > > > > expanded > > > > > > > in soubhagya bhaskaram and forms part of vishesha > vyaakhya > > > on the > > > > > > > phrase "bisa tantu taneeyasee". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want the entire vyaakhya, i have no objection in > > > giving > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not deviating from the original thread? Where > is > > > the > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > to the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious? And may I > know > > > > > as to > > > > > > > why > > > > > > > > the shloka describing the state of Kundalini at > Muladhara > > > is > > > > > > > excluded? I > > > > > > > > am sure you know that Kundalini does not arise from > > > > > Swadhishthana. > > > > > > > Would > > > > > > > > you bekind enough to quote the source sothat I could > try to > > > > > > > locate the > > > > > > > > complete verse myself? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "agnim swaadhistaanagataagnitejomayeem > > > kundalineemichhdhwam. > > > > > > > > > icchaadandenaahatyothapayadhwam....athaeva > > > > > > > rodanaavasthasaahityaat. > > > > > > > > > kulakundaadutthaapanasyotpatti roopatwaaccha sadya > > > utpannaa > > > > > > > > > kumaareetyuchyathe. yoshittaruNee kaarunyalakshaNaa > > > > > > > > > sooryeNaahtaaduparibhaage saahityaatpativrataa. patim > > > > > > > > > brahmarandhrastham kaameshwaram vratayati bhunkte > > > payovratam > > > > > > > > > braahmaNasyethi prayogaaccha evam koumaarataaruNya > > > > > > > > > sambhogairarishtam shubham peeyusha varshaNaroopam > > > anyadapi > > > > > > > > > yatkinchitsaakriyathe karoti tatsarvam > > > > > agnisswaadhisthaanagatho > > > > > > > > > anuvedhati saadhayathi. agnijwalanenaiva > chandramandalam > > > > > > > dravateethi > > > > > > > > > bhavaH" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you can translate this and understand that > > > > > Kundalini > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > the ability to do "shubham" only when it matures > (utpatti > > > > > > > avastha) > > > > > > > > > and unites with Shiva causing the amrita varsham, > through > > > > > the > > > > > > > medium > > > > > > > > > of agni. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from > > > > > scriptures > > > > > > > > > that you > > > > > > > > > > have that state that dormant Kundalini is > inauspicious. > > > > > That > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > help > > > > > > > > > > enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja > and > > > other > > > > > > > Kootas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me in the body divisions given > according > > > to > > > > > > > kootas, > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? > Let's > > > get > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > straight > > > > > > > > > > > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. > > > Please > > > > > do > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > worry > > > > > > > > > > > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, > and > > > can > > > > > > > provide > > > > > > > > > > > them by the ton:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean > the > > > > > portion > > > > > > > upto > > > > > > > > > neck > > > > > > > > > > > or the portion upto forehead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras > at the > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > place, > > > > > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your > > > > > arguments > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in > support > > > of > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > argument > > > > > > > > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on > the > > > > > shloka I > > > > > > > > > sent > > > > > > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother > thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha > pankajaa > > > > > > > > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna > katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > > > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does > the > > > > > head > > > > > > > > > come...in > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there > any > > > > > other > > > > > > > koota > > > > > > > > > > > defined > > > > > > > > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? > Or do > > > you > > > > > > > imply > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > > > mappings > > > > > > > > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a > > > simple > > > > > > > > > principle in > > > > > > > > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, > > > unless > > > > > > > you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) > or > > > want > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > confuse > > > > > > > > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya > > > > > intended > > > > > > > > > that "bisa > > > > > > > > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt > > > kundalini > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > Mooladhara > > > > > > > > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately > > > > > > > after "mooladharaika > > > > > > > > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari > > > > > samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is > like a > > > > > python > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser > > > than at > > > > > > > > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not > > > agni > > > > > > > > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" > > > happens > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha > and > > > is > > > > > > > ignited > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head > but > > > a > > > > > > > group of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face > indicating > > > > > the > > > > > > > vacha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the > vagbija > > > > > protect > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > throat > > > > > > > > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. > And > > > her > > > > > > > > > principal > > > > > > > > > > > abode > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. > > > However > > > > > if > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when > dormant > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > free to > > > > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the > HrIm > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if > you > > > > > need the > > > > > > > > > > > reference). > > > > > > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that > > > Kundalini > > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that > > > > > certainly > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > mean > > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k...{flI devta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé > > > devatä > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä > trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné > mäliné > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta > k...lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä > > > > > > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in > > > Rudrayamala > > > > > > > Tantra. > > > > > > > > > Do > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > > > > > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is > > > described > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have > read > > > the > > > > > > > > > yamalas, i > > > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of > > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding > > > > > kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and > not "MahashakthiH" > > > and > > > > > > > talks of > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with > > > Shiva....mahe > > > > > > > utsave > > > > > > > > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH > > > tatparataa > > > > > > > yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu > > > > > taneeyasee" > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened > > > > > kundalini, > > > > > > > > > let me > > > > > > > > > > > quote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. > > > > > > > uttishtatha. > > > > > > > > > maa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! > wake up > > > ( > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion > on > > > > > > > Kundalini. > > > > > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha > > > > > (anger), > > > > > > > lobha > > > > > > > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) > and > > > > > maatsarya > > > > > > > > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what > does "kaama" > > > imply > > > > > > > among > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > > > > > > > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya > > > > > swaroopini" > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes > > > understanding > > > > > of > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > > facets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which > > > can be > > > > > > > routed > > > > > > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both > ends > > > the > > > > > > > same? > > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to > good > > > > > use, > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and > > > Parvati, > > > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > power, > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it > ensures > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of > > > > > Shakti is > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both > sattwik > > > and > > > > > > > krura. I > > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, > can > > > give > > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do > so. > > > You > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > refer > > > > > > > > > > > to all > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than > > > > > winning or > > > > > > > > > losing > > > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed > as > > > an > > > > > > > > > exploration > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not > the > > > > > case, I > > > > > > > > > see no > > > > > > > > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an > early > > > > > age are > > > > > > > > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but > did > > > > > not die > > > > > > > > > young. > > > > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have > read > > > > > > > Swamiji's > > > > > > > > > > > biography > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times > > > despite of > > > > > > > > > apparent > > > > > > > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's > > > chart > > > > > > > confirms > > > > > > > > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. > I > > > did > > > > > not > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way > if > > > > > there > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > > Kuja > > > > > > > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? > Please > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) > into > > > > > > > astrological > > > > > > > > > > > analysis > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the > > > discussions > > > > > are > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no > > > where. > > > > > The > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to > time > > > an > > > > > > > event but > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas > occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's > chart > > > you > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the > Ketu > > > deha > > > > > in > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the > way you > > > > > read > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > mail, > > > > > > > > > > > I did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for > him, > > > > > only > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > gave > > > > > > > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being > Atma > > > > > and > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread > on > > > the > > > > > > > topic, > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana > Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in > Swami > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda's > > > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and > > > causing > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > powerful > > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the > Swamiji > > > > > lived, > > > > > > > > > you may > > > > > > > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act > as > > > > > > > Mahakrura. > > > > > > > > > Think > > > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, > also, > > > > > before > > > > > > > > > declaring > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an > > > > > icchamrityu > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > looking at > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I > observe > > > > > that he > > > > > > > > > passed > > > > > > > > > > > away > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from > Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - > 1909- > > > 02- > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > > (3:59:13 > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - > > > 1903- > > > > > 08-27 > > > > > > > > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - > 1902- > > > 09- > > > > > 12 > > > > > > > > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - > 1902- > > > 07- > > > > > 07 > > > > > > > > > (5:06:28 > > > > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - > > > 1902- > > > > > 07-06 > > > > > > > > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - > 1902-07- > > > 05 > > > > > > > > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, > > > Venus > > > > > is > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, > Ketu > > > is > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > house of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and > Saturn > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the > maraka > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of > his > > > early > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into > all > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK > > > > > aspecting 7th > > > > > > > > > house, > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you > > > ignore > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the > > > 10th > > > > > > > house? I > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja > > > yoga:-- > > > > > )) > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > without the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level > impact > > > he > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > > wherever > > > > > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what > happened to > > > > > the > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted > Mars > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I > > > think > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like > Sita. You > > > > > have > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > commented > > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at > the > > > > > bhava > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons > already > > > > > stated > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as > belonging to > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > people, > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or > > > otherwise > > > > > of > > > > > > > what I > > > > > > > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a > > > > > malignant > > > > > > > > > sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in > 8th in > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent > > > results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to > > > > > examine > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun > is the > > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri > Ramana's > > > > > chart, > > > > > > > rahu > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's > > > > > effects...all of > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in > 7th > > > > > house and > > > > > > > > > ketu > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's > > > > > effect, > > > > > > > if at > > > > > > > > > > > all, was > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the > killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from > Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - > 1955- > > > 02- > > > > > 03 > > > > > > > > > (2:05:32 > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - > 1951- > > > 02- > > > > > 21 > > > > > > > > > (8:49:14 > > > > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - > 1950- > > > 05- > > > > > 18 > > > > > > > > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - > 1950- > > > 04- > > > > > 20 > > > > > > > > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - > > > 1950- > > > > > 04-14 > > > > > > > > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - > 1950- > > > 04-14 > > > > > > > > > (12:47:04 > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact > > > that > > > > > the > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about > death. I > > > > > think > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa > > > > > totally > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to > consider > > > the > > > > > > > above > > > > > > > > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other > > > charts/issues > > > > > in > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars > > > > > strong as > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of > debility > > > even > > > > > > > when in > > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn > Viparitam > > > shane > > > > > > > > > smritam has > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not > > > considered > > > > > > > > > Mars/Venus > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. > > > > > Please go > > > > > > > > > through > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn > and > > > > > Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary > background > > > > > and > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known > for > > > its > > > > > soft > > > > > > > > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong > Malefics > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > P.M. > > > > > > > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a > P.M. > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > attributed > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to > > > imagine > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by > Parashara or > > > all > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different > parts > > > of > > > > > > > India > > > > > > > > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The > sages > > > > > gave us > > > > > > > > > > > principles > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life > horoscope > > > > > using > > > > > > > > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the > shloka > > > > > giving > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from > an > > > old > > > > > > > classic > > > > > > > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not > seem > > > to > > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said > by > > > Dr. > > > > > > > Raman, > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want > the > > > > > shloka > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with > > > Shri > > > > > B.V. > > > > > > > > > Raman > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics > give > > > good > > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you > also > > > > > > > disagree > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. > Isn't it > > > > > > > contrary to > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, > > > where I > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives > krura > > > > > nor > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun > in > > > > > lagna and > > > > > > > > > mars > > > > > > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in > 2nd > > > > > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted > Mars > > > in > > > > > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars > in 8th > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: > > > Exalted > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > (9H) > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in > rasi, > > > > > while > > > > > > > > > > > debilitated > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the > reference > > > > > > > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > > > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer > to > > > > > Saturn's > > > > > > > > > > > placement in > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree > strong > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > gives > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the > > > saying > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > because i > > > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and > understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% > > > > > > > 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the > > > saying > > > > > is, > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha- > > > krura) > > > > > and > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > shubha > > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura > when > > > > > weak > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH > > > > > smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started > when I > > > > > was 9 > > > > > > > years > > > > > > > > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you > > > didn't > > > > > > > notice > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand > the > > > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree > that > > > > > Rahu is > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are > exceptionally > > > > > good, > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my > chart > > > > > because > > > > > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially > when > > > weak, > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while > > > strong > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were > > > weak, > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is > hopelessly > > > > > > > combust > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major > > > results of > > > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because > > > > > according > > > > > > > > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with > higher > > > > > > > shadbala > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I > request > > > > > you to > > > > > > > > > read the > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. > When he > > > > > died, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > nature > > > > > > > > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest > > > > > persons in > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because > > > > > > > Parashurama > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately > wanted to > > > > > learn > > > > > > > > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support > > > > > Duryodhana. > > > > > > > > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. > But > > > > > it's to > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > borne in > > > > > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to > > > please > > > > > > > > > Duryodhana, > > > > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything > > > > > personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd > house > > > > > from > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the > > > natural > > > > > > > zodiac, > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, > > > > > represents > > > > > > > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by > Yama, > > > the > > > > > lord > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > death, > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial > grounds. > > > > > So, the > > > > > > > > > Rudras > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, > Sun > > > > > > > resides in > > > > > > > > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from > here. > > > So > > > > > he > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that > when I > > > > > > > referred to > > > > > > > > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as > > > > > antaraatma > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post > on the > > > > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> <% > > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young > for > > > the > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that > your > > > > > father > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > promotions > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades > during > > > that > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a > young > > > > > age of > > > > > > > 9 > > > > > > > > > or so > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am > relieved > > > you > > > > > > > did not > > > > > > > > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 > period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking > about > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by > > > > > conjunction, as > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > guessed > > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a > > > > > Dharmakarmaadhipati > > > > > > > yoga > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding > Sun its > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic > not > > > > > because I > > > > > > > > > say so > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic > when > > > > > > > conjunct a > > > > > > > > > papa > > > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the > apex of > > > > > Artha > > > > > > > > > trikona > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn > money. > > > > > Though > > > > > > > > > claimed > > > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush > sthana > > > > > (8th) > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But > 8th > > > is > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > popularly > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called > Smashana. > > > If > > > > > it > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why > > > would > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > be at > > > > > > > > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can > not > > > > > > > represent > > > > > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste > Chandrasekhar > > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was > > > excellent > > > > > > > too. My > > > > > > > > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days > > > were > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > and i > > > > > > > > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in > > > creative > > > > > > > > > writing, > > > > > > > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, > for a > > > > > > > student, I > > > > > > > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify > > > this, > > > > > if > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka > results, > > > > > but > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you > think > > > Rahu > > > > > is > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury > is > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also > > > represent > > > > > > > burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is > that a > > > > > place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents > all > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > bodies, > > > > > > > > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail > has > > > the > > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > > spam > > > > > > > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > > > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > > > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- > ---- > > > --- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is > out- > > > of- > > > > > > > date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free > Edition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus > > > Database: > > > > > > > > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > > > message > > > > > have > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > ---- > > > --- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > > > > > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus > Database: > > > > > > > > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > message > > > have > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > ---- > > > --- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > > > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New > > > > > Version is > > > > > > > > > > > radically > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to use" -- The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- > ---- > > > --- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam > protection > > > > > and > > > > > > > 1GB > > > > > > > > > > > storage > > > > > > > > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ > ---- > > > --- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've > > > > > developed > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > new Security Centre. > > > > > http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. > <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. > <http://uk.security.> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- > ---- > > > --- > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning > in > > > its > > > > > > > > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- > ---- > > > - > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now. > > > > > > > http://www..co.uk/blackberry > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>> > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>>> > > > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>> > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > - > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > > > Date: > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > All New Mail -- Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our > > > SpamGuard > > > > > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > Date: > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, Though I would not like to write further on this, but as you commented: " Btw, I hope that Chadrasekhar ji understands that "kunda" does not mean mooladhara...it's kulakunda, and kula refers to mooladhara:--))" Here is something to ponder over. There is a relation between the location of Muladhara and the shape of Kunda. Since this is not an anatomy forum, I can not go beyond this. And meaning of the word Kula might surprise you. Also think about what is meant by Kaula. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Pradeep, > > The root word is "mad" and is applicable to both "I/mine" as in mad- > bhakta, madiya etc, as to "intoxication, passion" etc. Please refer > to monier-williams online dictionary, which, btw, is but a scanned > version of the originalm, though Chandrasekhar ji seems to think > differently. I am sure once you refer to the dictionaries you would > find a lot of phrases giving the meaning of "mada" as > pride/arrogance:--)) > > If you seriously consider, the root "mad" talks about illusion/false > feelings. Accordingly all the meanings of "mada" are derived from > these roots. Hence the word "mada" can mean intoxication, passion, > pride, conceit all... > > I have also not dismissed the other meanings of "mada" (please refer > to my previous emails) and honestly examined whether "mada" as > intoxication, passion etc can form an integral part of the context > of the shloka...whether these are universal phenomena. But I found > that "mada" as indicative of feeling of "ego/I/mine" is more > universal/basic than "mada" as indicative of "intoxocation, passion". > > I also request you to examine the "word" in all its connotations, as > applicable to the shloka. > > I will wait for your mail on "aham", but may not participate in the > discussions during Navaratri. > > Btw, I hope that Chadrasekhar ji understands that "kunda" does not > mean mooladhara...it's kulakunda, and kula refers to mooladhara:--)) > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > ------ > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.6/453 - Release 9/20/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, I am indeed glad to see this change of stance from some one who was insisting on "Aaanana" being only face:--))need i say more? Instead of hedging issues, saying that "i can, but won't", why don't you for a change, go ahead and interpret the phrase, from any/all of the philosophical/yogic/tantrik/anatomical perspectives? there are people other than myself on the list, who can appreciate your wisdom. I can also honestly try. So far, i observe that you have not explained a single phrase, despite my repeated requests, either pertaining to the shloka you've quoted yourself, or otherwise. Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > Your mails, so far, do not suggest that you want to see any meaning > other than the verbatim, and sometimes not even that, at present. When I > feel the time is right, I shall certainly tell that to you. > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > Please give the tantrik / yogic meaning, so that my understanding > > becomes complete. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi, > > > It is apparent you have not understood the yogic meaning behind > > the > > > lalitopakhyana. So our discussions are not likely to bring any > > fruits. > > > It is strange you do apply different meaning to Kunda to suit your > > > arguments. I am sure you will not find the anand on the way of > > Kula > > > patha in "kulapathaanandaikabeejanana" and giving the tantrik > > meaning > > > here would be superfluous. > > > > > > I would prefer if you understand Mother instead of only thinking > > about > > > her. I am sure you can do that if you focus in that direction. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > Sir, may i request you to read Lalithopakhyanam? One can > > understand > > > > from where the "chidagni" originated....infact, the entire > > > > concept/context of "chidagni kunda sambhuta". > > > > > > > > I wanted to know your understanding > > > > of "kulapathaanandaikabeejanana". If you can give it, i'd welcome > > > > it, otherwise, please leave it. > > > > > > > > Thanks for making me think so much of Mother. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > I think the fault lies with me and my age in not trying to read > > > > the > > > > > entire shlokas through and trying out all the permutation > > > > combinations > > > > > that I normally do before come to any conclusion as to the > > meaning > > > > of > > > > > Sanskrit Shlokas, especially those to do with spirituality, > > > > jyotisha and > > > > > tantra. > > > > > > > > > > I can see your view point but would also like to draw your > > > > attention to > > > > > the beginning of Shri Lalita SN which says, > > > > > "cidagnI kunDa sambhUtaa devakaarya samudyataa" > > > > > The nearest translation is one who is born in the fire pit of > > Pure > > > > > copiousness and intent on fulfillment of wishes of the Gods. > > > > > > > > > > I am sure this will make you think again the interpretation of > > the > > > > > earlier shlokas in a different light. > > > > > > > > > > As you request, let us move ahead with other topics. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps it was incorrect of me not to type out the quotation > > in > > > > > > Itrans. Ramesh recently upgraded /migrated the system to a > > new > > > > OS, > > > > > > so my ITrans got wiped out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I could have installed it again, but I guess I was just being > > > > lazy. > > > > > > I am sorry I have caused you inconvenience in this regard. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, the shloka/quotation says that one (the sadhaka) must > > hit > > > > the > > > > > > dormant kundalini with the agni of one's iccha, repeatedly, > > > > until it > > > > > > turns up and starts to move. The immature/unripe kundalini at > > > > > > Mooladhara, matures in the process of reaching brahma > > randhra and > > > > > > unites with shiva thereat, so that it can cause "shubham" and > > > > Amrita > > > > > > varsha. Agni causes this transformation. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you understand the allegory & the process of > > > > > > demagnetization of kundalini involved here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, I have only one request, let's move on ahead with new > > > > > > understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was certainly my fault. Signs of me getting old. The > > text > > > > > > being in > > > > > > > roman script, I was deficient in not reading it through. > > It was > > > > > > indeed > > > > > > > negligent of me to read the first verse and then read some > > > > other > > > > > > verses > > > > > > > not in order. So I assumed that the description is journey > > of > > > > > > Kundalini > > > > > > > or Chitashakti, from Sawdhishthana onwards. I am more > > > > comfortable > > > > > > with > > > > > > > Devanagari or ULW Palladio fonts as the spelling of "ta" is > > > > done > > > > > > > differently in north and south. > > > > > > > There are many other Devanagari letters where this occurs. > > But > > > > as > > > > > > I said > > > > > > > I can not escape blame on that account. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way does the shloka specifically, or by inference, > > > > mention > > > > > > that > > > > > > > Kundalini in Kulakunda is inauspicious as is being made > > out by > > > > > > you? That > > > > > > > is the basic question. Kindly let me know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The very word Kula Kunda indicates that the Kunda is the > > > > natural > > > > > > > dwelling of the Kula or Shakti. So does the shloka mean > > that > > > > she > > > > > > is > > > > > > > inauspicious in own abode? Kindly enlighten. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you have not read/understood the sanskrit > > properly. > > > > There > > > > > > > > are references to kundalini being dormant, kundalini > > being > > > > > > activated > > > > > > > > kundalini becoming auspicious. As far as my limited > > knowledge > > > > > > goes, > > > > > > > > kulakunda is "mooladhara" and I am sure you can clearly > > see > > > > > > phrase > > > > > > > > in the quotation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reference is taken originally from Sanatkumaara > > tantra, > > > > > > expanded > > > > > > > > in soubhagya bhaskaram and forms part of vishesha > > vyaakhya > > > > on the > > > > > > > > phrase "bisa tantu taneeyasee". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want the entire vyaakhya, i have no objection in > > > > giving > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not deviating from the original thread? Where > > is > > > > the > > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > > to the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious? And may I > > know > > > > > > as to > > > > > > > > why > > > > > > > > > the shloka describing the state of Kundalini at > > Muladhara > > > > is > > > > > > > > excluded? I > > > > > > > > > am sure you know that Kundalini does not arise from > > > > > > Swadhishthana. > > > > > > > > Would > > > > > > > > > you bekind enough to quote the source sothat I could > > try to > > > > > > > > locate the > > > > > > > > > complete verse myself? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "agnim swaadhistaanagataagnitejomayeem > > > > kundalineemichhdhwam. > > > > > > > > > > icchaadandenaahatyothapayadhwam....athaeva > > > > > > > > rodanaavasthasaahityaat. > > > > > > > > > > kulakundaadutthaapanasyotpatti roopatwaaccha sadya > > > > utpannaa > > > > > > > > > > kumaareetyuchyathe. yoshittaruNee kaarunyalakshaNaa > > > > > > > > > > sooryeNaahtaaduparibhaage saahityaatpativrataa. patim > > > > > > > > > > brahmarandhrastham kaameshwaram vratayati bhunkte > > > > payovratam > > > > > > > > > > braahmaNasyethi prayogaaccha evam koumaarataaruNya > > > > > > > > > > sambhogairarishtam shubham peeyusha varshaNaroopam > > > > anyadapi > > > > > > > > > > yatkinchitsaakriyathe karoti tatsarvam > > > > > > agnisswaadhisthaanagatho > > > > > > > > > > anuvedhati saadhayathi. agnijwalanenaiva > > chandramandalam > > > > > > > > dravateethi > > > > > > > > > > bhavaH" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you can translate this and understand that > > > > > > Kundalini > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > the ability to do "shubham" only when it matures > > (utpatti > > > > > > > > avastha) > > > > > > > > > > and unites with Shiva causing the amrita varsham, > > through > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > medium > > > > > > > > > > of agni. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from > > > > > > scriptures > > > > > > > > > > that you > > > > > > > > > > > have that state that dormant Kundalini is > > inauspicious. > > > > > > That > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > help > > > > > > > > > > > enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja > > and > > > > other > > > > > > > > Kootas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me in the body divisions given > > according > > > > to > > > > > > > > kootas, > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? > > Let's > > > > get > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > straight > > > > > > > > > > > > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. > > > > Please > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > worry > > > > > > > > > > > > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, > > and > > > > can > > > > > > > > provide > > > > > > > > > > > > them by the ton:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean > > the > > > > > > portion > > > > > > > > upto > > > > > > > > > > neck > > > > > > > > > > > > or the portion upto forehead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras > > at the > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > > place, > > > > > > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your > > > > > > arguments > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in > > support > > > > of > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > argument > > > > > > > > > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on > > the > > > > > > shloka I > > > > > > > > > > sent > > > > > > > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother > > thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha > > pankajaa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna > > katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does > > the > > > > > > head > > > > > > > > > > come...in > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there > > any > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > koota > > > > > > > > > > > > defined > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? > > Or do > > > > you > > > > > > > > imply > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of > > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > > > > mappings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a > > > > simple > > > > > > > > > > principle in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, > > > > unless > > > > > > > > you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) > > or > > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > confuse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya > > > > > > intended > > > > > > > > > > that "bisa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt > > > > kundalini > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > Mooladhara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately > > > > > > > > after "mooladharaika > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari > > > > > > samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is > > like a > > > > > > python > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser > > > > than at > > > > > > > > > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not > > > > agni > > > > > > > > > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" > > > > happens > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha > > and > > > > is > > > > > > > > ignited > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head > > but > > > > a > > > > > > > > group of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face > > indicating > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > vacha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the > > vagbija > > > > > > protect > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > throat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. > > And > > > > her > > > > > > > > > > principal > > > > > > > > > > > > abode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. > > > > However > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when > > dormant > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > free to > > > > > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the > > HrIm > > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if > > you > > > > > > need the > > > > > > > > > > > > reference). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that > > > > Kundalini > > > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that > > > > > > certainly > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > mean > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k...{flI devta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé > > > > devatä > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä > > trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné > > mäliné > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta > > k...lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä > > > > > > > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in > > > > Rudrayamala > > > > > > > > Tantra. > > > > > > > > > > Do > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > > > > > > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is > > > > described > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have > > read > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > yamalas, i > > > > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of > > > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding > > > > > > kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and > > not "MahashakthiH" > > > > and > > > > > > > > talks of > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with > > > > Shiva....mahe > > > > > > > > utsave > > > > > > > > > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH > > > > tatparataa > > > > > > > > yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu > > > > > > taneeyasee" > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened > > > > > > kundalini, > > > > > > > > > > let me > > > > > > > > > > > > quote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. > > > > > > > > uttishtatha. > > > > > > > > > > maa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! > > wake up > > > > ( > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion > > on > > > > > > > > Kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha > > > > > > (anger), > > > > > > > > lobha > > > > > > > > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) > > and > > > > > > maatsarya > > > > > > > > > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what > > does "kaama" > > > > imply > > > > > > > > among > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > > > > > > > > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya > > > > > > swaroopini" > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes > > > > understanding > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > > > facets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which > > > > can be > > > > > > > > routed > > > > > > > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both > > ends > > > > the > > > > > > > > same? > > > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to > > good > > > > > > use, > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and > > > > Parvati, > > > > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > power, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it > > ensures > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of > > > > > > Shakti is > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both > > sattwik > > > > and > > > > > > > > krura. I > > > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, > > can > > > > give > > > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do > > so. > > > > You > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > refer > > > > > > > > > > > > to all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than > > > > > > winning or > > > > > > > > > > losing > > > > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed > > as > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > exploration > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not > > the > > > > > > case, I > > > > > > > > > > see no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40>, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an > > early > > > > > > age are > > > > > > > > > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but > > did > > > > > > not die > > > > > > > > > > young. > > > > > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have > > read > > > > > > > > Swamiji's > > > > > > > > > > > > biography > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times > > > > despite of > > > > > > > > > > apparent > > > > > > > > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's > > > > chart > > > > > > > > confirms > > > > > > > > > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. > > I > > > > did > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way > > if > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > > > Kuja > > > > > > > > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? > > Please > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) > > into > > > > > > > > astrological > > > > > > > > > > > > analysis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the > > > > discussions > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no > > > > where. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to > > time > > > > an > > > > > > > > event but > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas > > occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's > > chart > > > > you > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the > > Ketu > > > > deha > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the > > way you > > > > > > read > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > mail, > > > > > > > > > > > > I did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for > > him, > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > gave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being > > Atma > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread > > on > > > > the > > > > > > > > topic, > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana > > Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in > > Swami > > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda's > > > > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and > > > > causing > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > powerful > > > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the > > Swamiji > > > > > > lived, > > > > > > > > > > you may > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act > > as > > > > > > > > Mahakrura. > > > > > > > > > > Think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, > > also, > > > > > > before > > > > > > > > > > declaring > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an > > > > > > icchamrityu > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I > > observe > > > > > > that he > > > > > > > > > > passed > > > > > > > > > > > > away > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from > > Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - > > 1909- > > > > 02- > > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > > > (3:59:13 > > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - > > > > 1903- > > > > > > 08-27 > > > > > > > > > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - > > 1902- > > > > 09- > > > > > > 12 > > > > > > > > > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - > > 1902- > > > > 07- > > > > > > 07 > > > > > > > > > > (5:06:28 > > > > > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - > > > > 1902- > > > > > > 07-06 > > > > > > > > > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - > > 1902-07- > > > > 05 > > > > > > > > > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, > > > > Venus > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, > > Ketu > > > > is > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > house of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and > > Saturn > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the > > maraka > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of > > his > > > > early > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into > > all > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK > > > > > > aspecting 7th > > > > > > > > > > house, > > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you > > > > ignore > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the > > > > 10th > > > > > > > > house? I > > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja > > > > yoga:-- > > > > > > )) > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > without the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level > > impact > > > > he > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > > > wherever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what > > happened to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted > > Mars > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I > > > > think > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like > > Sita. You > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > commented > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at > > the > > > > > > bhava > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons > > already > > > > > > stated > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as > > belonging to > > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > > people, > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or > > > > otherwise > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > what I > > > > > > > > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a > > > > > > malignant > > > > > > > > > > sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in > > 8th in > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent > > > > results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to > > > > > > examine > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun > > is the > > > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri > > Ramana's > > > > > > chart, > > > > > > > > rahu > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's > > > > > > effects...all of > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in > > 7th > > > > > > house and > > > > > > > > > > ketu > > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's > > > > > > effect, > > > > > > > > if at > > > > > > > > > > > > all, was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the > > killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from > > Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - > > 1955- > > > > 02- > > > > > > 03 > > > > > > > > > > (2:05:32 > > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - > > 1951- > > > > 02- > > > > > > 21 > > > > > > > > > > (8:49:14 > > > > > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - > > 1950- > > > > 05- > > > > > > 18 > > > > > > > > > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - > > 1950- > > > > 04- > > > > > > 20 > > > > > > > > > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - > > > > 1950- > > > > > > 04-14 > > > > > > > > > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - > > 1950- > > > > 04-14 > > > > > > > > > > (12:47:04 > > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact > > > > that > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about > > death. I > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa > > > > > > totally > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to > > consider > > > > the > > > > > > > > above > > > > > > > > > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other > > > > charts/issues > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars > > > > > > strong as > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of > > debility > > > > even > > > > > > > > when in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn > > Viparitam > > > > shane > > > > > > > > > > smritam has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not > > > > considered > > > > > > > > > > Mars/Venus > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. > > > > > > Please go > > > > > > > > > > through > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn > > and > > > > > > Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary > > background > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known > > for > > > > its > > > > > > soft > > > > > > > > > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong > > Malefics > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > P.M. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a > > P.M. > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > attributed > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to > > > > imagine > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by > > Parashara or > > > > all > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different > > parts > > > > of > > > > > > > > India > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The > > sages > > > > > > gave us > > > > > > > > > > > > principles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life > > horoscope > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the > > shloka > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from > > an > > > > old > > > > > > > > classic > > > > > > > > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not > > seem > > > > to > > > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said > > by > > > > Dr. > > > > > > > > Raman, > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want > > the > > > > > > shloka > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with > > > > Shri > > > > > > B.V. > > > > > > > > > > Raman > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics > > give > > > > good > > > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you > > also > > > > > > > > disagree > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. > > Isn't it > > > > > > > > contrary to > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, > > > > where I > > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives > > krura > > > > > > nor > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun > > in > > > > > > lagna and > > > > > > > > > > mars > > > > > > > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in > > 2nd > > > > > > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted > > Mars > > > > in > > > > > > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars > > in 8th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: > > > > Exalted > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > (9H) > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in > > rasi, > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the > > reference > > > > > > > > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer > > to > > > > > > Saturn's > > > > > > > > > > > > placement in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree > > strong > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > gives > > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the > > > > saying > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > because i > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and > > understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% > > > > > > > > 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the > > > > saying > > > > > > is, > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha- > > > > krura) > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura > > when > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH > > > > > > smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started > > when I > > > > > > was 9 > > > > > > > > years > > > > > > > > > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you > > > > didn't > > > > > > > > notice > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand > > the > > > > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree > > that > > > > > > Rahu is > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are > > exceptionally > > > > > > good, > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my > > chart > > > > > > because > > > > > > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially > > when > > > > weak, > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while > > > > strong > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were > > > > weak, > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is > > hopelessly > > > > > > > > combust > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major > > > > results of > > > > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because > > > > > > according > > > > > > > > > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with > > higher > > > > > > > > shadbala > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I > > request > > > > > > you to > > > > > > > > > > read the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. > > When he > > > > > > died, > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > nature > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest > > > > > > persons in > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because > > > > > > > > Parashurama > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately > > wanted to > > > > > > learn > > > > > > > > > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support > > > > > > Duryodhana. > > > > > > > > > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. > > But > > > > > > it's to > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > borne in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > Duryodhana, > > > > > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything > > > > > > personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd > > house > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the > > > > natural > > > > > > > > zodiac, > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, > > > > > > represents > > > > > > > > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by > > Yama, > > > > the > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > death, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial > > grounds. > > > > > > So, the > > > > > > > > > > Rudras > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, > > Sun > > > > > > > > resides in > > > > > > > > > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from > > here. > > > > So > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that > > when I > > > > > > > > referred to > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as > > > > > > antaraatma > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post > > on the > > > > > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> <% > > > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young > > for > > > > the > > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that > > your > > > > > > father > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > > promotions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades > > during > > > > that > > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a > > young > > > > > > age of > > > > > > > > 9 > > > > > > > > > > or so > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am > > relieved > > > > you > > > > > > > > did not > > > > > > > > > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 > > period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking > > about > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by > > > > > > conjunction, as > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > guessed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a > > > > > > Dharmakarmaadhipati > > > > > > > > yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding > > Sun its > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic > > not > > > > > > because I > > > > > > > > > > say so > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic > > when > > > > > > > > conjunct a > > > > > > > > > > papa > > > > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the > > apex of > > > > > > Artha > > > > > > > > > > trikona > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn > > money. > > > > > > Though > > > > > > > > > > claimed > > > > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush > > sthana > > > > > > (8th) > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But > > 8th > > > > is > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > popularly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called > > Smashana. > > > > If > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why > > > > would > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > be at > > > > > > > > > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can > > not > > > > > > > > represent > > > > > > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste > > Chandrasekhar > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was > > > > excellent > > > > > > > > too. My > > > > > > > > > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion (s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days > > > > were > > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > > and i > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in > > > > creative > > > > > > > > > > writing, > > > > > > > > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, > > for a > > > > > > > > student, I > > > > > > > > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify > > > > this, > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka > > results, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you > > think > > > > Rahu > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury > > is > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also > > > > represent > > > > > > > > burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is > > that a > > > > > > place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents > > all > > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > > bodies, > > > > > > > > > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail > > has > > > > the > > > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > > > spam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > > > < <>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > > > < <>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > --- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is > > out- > > > > of- > > > > > > > > date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free > > Edition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus > > > > Database: > > > > > > > > > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > > > > message > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > --- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > > > > > > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus > > Database: > > > > > > > > > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > > message > > > > have > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > --- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > > > > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New > > > > > > Version is > > > > > > > > > > > > radically > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to use" -- The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- ---- > > ---- > > > > --- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam > > protection > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > 1GB > > > > > > > > > > > > storage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- ---- > > ---- > > > > --- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've > > > > > > developed > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > > new Security Centre. > > > > > > http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. > > <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. > > <http://uk.security.> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ ---- > > ---- > > > > --- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning > > in > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > - > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now. > > > > > > > > http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>> > > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>>> > > > > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>> > > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- ---- > > - > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > All New Mail -- Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our > > > > SpamGuard > > > > > > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ - > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > > Date: > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, I am indeed glad to see this change of stance from some one who was insisting on "Aaanana" being only face:--))need i say more? Instead of hedging issues, saying that "i can, but won't", why don't you for a change, go ahead and interpret the phrase, from any/all of the philosophical/yogic/tantrik/anatomical perspectives? there are people other than myself on the list, who can appreciate your wisdom. I can also honestly try. So far, i observe that you have not explained a single phrase, despite my repeated requests, either pertaining to the shloka you've quoted yourself, or otherwise. Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > Your mails, so far, do not suggest that you want to see any meaning > other than the verbatim, and sometimes not even that, at present. When I > feel the time is right, I shall certainly tell that to you. > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > Please give the tantrik / yogic meaning, so that my understanding > > becomes complete. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi, > > > It is apparent you have not understood the yogic meaning behind > > the > > > lalitopakhyana. So our discussions are not likely to bring any > > fruits. > > > It is strange you do apply different meaning to Kunda to suit your > > > arguments. I am sure you will not find the anand on the way of > > Kula > > > patha in "kulapathaanandaikabeejanana" and giving the tantrik > > meaning > > > here would be superfluous. > > > > > > I would prefer if you understand Mother instead of only thinking > > about > > > her. I am sure you can do that if you focus in that direction. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > Sir, may i request you to read Lalithopakhyanam? One can > > understand > > > > from where the "chidagni" originated....infact, the entire > > > > concept/context of "chidagni kunda sambhuta". > > > > > > > > I wanted to know your understanding > > > > of "kulapathaanandaikabeejanana". If you can give it, i'd welcome > > > > it, otherwise, please leave it. > > > > > > > > Thanks for making me think so much of Mother. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > I think the fault lies with me and my age in not trying to read > > > > the > > > > > entire shlokas through and trying out all the permutation > > > > combinations > > > > > that I normally do before come to any conclusion as to the > > meaning > > > > of > > > > > Sanskrit Shlokas, especially those to do with spirituality, > > > > jyotisha and > > > > > tantra. > > > > > > > > > > I can see your view point but would also like to draw your > > > > attention to > > > > > the beginning of Shri Lalita SN which says, > > > > > "cidagnI kunDa sambhUtaa devakaarya samudyataa" > > > > > The nearest translation is one who is born in the fire pit of > > Pure > > > > > copiousness and intent on fulfillment of wishes of the Gods. > > > > > > > > > > I am sure this will make you think again the interpretation of > > the > > > > > earlier shlokas in a different light. > > > > > > > > > > As you request, let us move ahead with other topics. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps it was incorrect of me not to type out the quotation > > in > > > > > > Itrans. Ramesh recently upgraded /migrated the system to a > > new > > > > OS, > > > > > > so my ITrans got wiped out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I could have installed it again, but I guess I was just being > > > > lazy. > > > > > > I am sorry I have caused you inconvenience in this regard. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, the shloka/quotation says that one (the sadhaka) must > > hit > > > > the > > > > > > dormant kundalini with the agni of one's iccha, repeatedly, > > > > until it > > > > > > turns up and starts to move. The immature/unripe kundalini at > > > > > > Mooladhara, matures in the process of reaching brahma > > randhra and > > > > > > unites with shiva thereat, so that it can cause "shubham" and > > > > Amrita > > > > > > varsha. Agni causes this transformation. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you understand the allegory & the process of > > > > > > demagnetization of kundalini involved here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, I have only one request, let's move on ahead with new > > > > > > understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was certainly my fault. Signs of me getting old. The > > text > > > > > > being in > > > > > > > roman script, I was deficient in not reading it through. > > It was > > > > > > indeed > > > > > > > negligent of me to read the first verse and then read some > > > > other > > > > > > verses > > > > > > > not in order. So I assumed that the description is journey > > of > > > > > > Kundalini > > > > > > > or Chitashakti, from Sawdhishthana onwards. I am more > > > > comfortable > > > > > > with > > > > > > > Devanagari or ULW Palladio fonts as the spelling of "ta" is > > > > done > > > > > > > differently in north and south. > > > > > > > There are many other Devanagari letters where this occurs. > > But > > > > as > > > > > > I said > > > > > > > I can not escape blame on that account. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way does the shloka specifically, or by inference, > > > > mention > > > > > > that > > > > > > > Kundalini in Kulakunda is inauspicious as is being made > > out by > > > > > > you? That > > > > > > > is the basic question. Kindly let me know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The very word Kula Kunda indicates that the Kunda is the > > > > natural > > > > > > > dwelling of the Kula or Shakti. So does the shloka mean > > that > > > > she > > > > > > is > > > > > > > inauspicious in own abode? Kindly enlighten. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you have not read/understood the sanskrit > > properly. > > > > There > > > > > > > > are references to kundalini being dormant, kundalini > > being > > > > > > activated > > > > > > > > kundalini becoming auspicious. As far as my limited > > knowledge > > > > > > goes, > > > > > > > > kulakunda is "mooladhara" and I am sure you can clearly > > see > > > > > > phrase > > > > > > > > in the quotation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reference is taken originally from Sanatkumaara > > tantra, > > > > > > expanded > > > > > > > > in soubhagya bhaskaram and forms part of vishesha > > vyaakhya > > > > on the > > > > > > > > phrase "bisa tantu taneeyasee". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want the entire vyaakhya, i have no objection in > > > > giving > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not deviating from the original thread? Where > > is > > > > the > > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > > to the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious? And may I > > know > > > > > > as to > > > > > > > > why > > > > > > > > > the shloka describing the state of Kundalini at > > Muladhara > > > > is > > > > > > > > excluded? I > > > > > > > > > am sure you know that Kundalini does not arise from > > > > > > Swadhishthana. > > > > > > > > Would > > > > > > > > > you bekind enough to quote the source sothat I could > > try to > > > > > > > > locate the > > > > > > > > > complete verse myself? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "agnim swaadhistaanagataagnitejomayeem > > > > kundalineemichhdhwam. > > > > > > > > > > icchaadandenaahatyothapayadhwam....athaeva > > > > > > > > rodanaavasthasaahityaat. > > > > > > > > > > kulakundaadutthaapanasyotpatti roopatwaaccha sadya > > > > utpannaa > > > > > > > > > > kumaareetyuchyathe. yoshittaruNee kaarunyalakshaNaa > > > > > > > > > > sooryeNaahtaaduparibhaage saahityaatpativrataa. patim > > > > > > > > > > brahmarandhrastham kaameshwaram vratayati bhunkte > > > > payovratam > > > > > > > > > > braahmaNasyethi prayogaaccha evam koumaarataaruNya > > > > > > > > > > sambhogairarishtam shubham peeyusha varshaNaroopam > > > > anyadapi > > > > > > > > > > yatkinchitsaakriyathe karoti tatsarvam > > > > > > agnisswaadhisthaanagatho > > > > > > > > > > anuvedhati saadhayathi. agnijwalanenaiva > > chandramandalam > > > > > > > > dravateethi > > > > > > > > > > bhavaH" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you can translate this and understand that > > > > > > Kundalini > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > the ability to do "shubham" only when it matures > > (utpatti > > > > > > > > avastha) > > > > > > > > > > and unites with Shiva causing the amrita varsham, > > through > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > medium > > > > > > > > > > of agni. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from > > > > > > scriptures > > > > > > > > > > that you > > > > > > > > > > > have that state that dormant Kundalini is > > inauspicious. > > > > > > That > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > help > > > > > > > > > > > enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja > > and > > > > other > > > > > > > > Kootas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me in the body divisions given > > according > > > > to > > > > > > > > kootas, > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? > > Let's > > > > get > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > straight > > > > > > > > > > > > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. > > > > Please > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > worry > > > > > > > > > > > > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, > > and > > > > can > > > > > > > > provide > > > > > > > > > > > > them by the ton:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean > > the > > > > > > portion > > > > > > > > upto > > > > > > > > > > neck > > > > > > > > > > > > or the portion upto forehead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras > > at the > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > > place, > > > > > > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your > > > > > > arguments > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in > > support > > > > of > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > argument > > > > > > > > > > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on > > the > > > > > > shloka I > > > > > > > > > > sent > > > > > > > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother > > thus... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha > > pankajaa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna > > katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does > > the > > > > > > head > > > > > > > > > > come...in > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there > > any > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > koota > > > > > > > > > > > > defined > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? > > Or do > > > > you > > > > > > > > imply > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of > > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > > > > mappings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a > > > > simple > > > > > > > > > > principle in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, > > > > unless > > > > > > > > you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) > > or > > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > confuse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya > > > > > > intended > > > > > > > > > > that "bisa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt > > > > kundalini > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > Mooladhara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also they would have put it immediately > > > > > > > > after "mooladharaika > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari > > > > > > samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is > > like a > > > > > > python > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser > > > > than at > > > > > > > > > > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not > > > > agni > > > > > > > > > > tattwatmika at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" > > > > happens > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha > > and > > > > is > > > > > > > > ignited > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head > > but > > > > a > > > > > > > > group of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face > > indicating > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > vacha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the > > vagbija > > > > > > protect > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > throat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. > > And > > > > her > > > > > > > > > > principal > > > > > > > > > > > > abode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. > > > > However > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > distort > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when > > dormant > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > free to > > > > > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so. I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would however request you to think why the > > HrIm > > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if > > you > > > > > > need the > > > > > > > > > > > > reference). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that > > > > Kundalini > > > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > coiled > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that > > > > > > certainly > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > mean > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k...{flI devta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé > > > > devatä > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä > > trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné > > mäliné > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta > > k...lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä > > > > > > > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in > > > > Rudrayamala > > > > > > > > Tantra. > > > > > > > > > > Do > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > > > > > > > > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is > > > > described > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > > > > > beeja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have > > read > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > yamalas, i > > > > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of > > > > > > vagbhava > > > > > > > > > > > > koota...it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding > > > > > > kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and > > not "MahashakthiH" > > > > and > > > > > > > > talks of > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with > > > > Shiva....mahe > > > > > > > > utsave > > > > > > > > > > > > tatratya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH > > > > tatparataa > > > > > > > > yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu > > > > > > taneeyasee" > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened > > > > > > kundalini, > > > > > > > > > > let me > > > > > > > > > > > > quote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. > > > > > > > > uttishtatha. > > > > > > > > > > maa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! > > wake up > > > > ( > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > kundalini). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion > > on > > > > > > > > Kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha > > > > > > (anger), > > > > > > > > lobha > > > > > > > > > > > > (greed), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) > > and > > > > > > maatsarya > > > > > > > > > > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what > > does "kaama" > > > > imply > > > > > > > > among > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > > > > > > > > > > intoxicated/drunk > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya > > > > > > swaroopini" > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes > > > > understanding > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > > > facets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which > > > > can be > > > > > > > > routed > > > > > > > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both > > ends > > > > the > > > > > > > > same? > > > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to > > good > > > > > > use, > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and > > > > Parvati, > > > > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > power, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it > > ensures > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > correct/judicious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of > > > > > > Shakti is > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both > > sattwik > > > > and > > > > > > > > krura. I > > > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, > > can > > > > give > > > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do > > so. > > > > You > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > refer > > > > > > > > > > > > to all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than > > > > > > winning or > > > > > > > > > > losing > > > > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed > > as > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > exploration > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not > > the > > > > > > case, I > > > > > > > > > > see no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40>, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an > > early > > > > > > age are > > > > > > > > > > > > operating at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but > > did > > > > > > not die > > > > > > > > > > young. > > > > > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have > > read > > > > > > > > Swamiji's > > > > > > > > > > > > biography > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times > > > > despite of > > > > > > > > > > apparent > > > > > > > > > > > > robust > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's > > > > chart > > > > > > > > confirms > > > > > > > > > > > > with his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. > > I > > > > did > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way > > if > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > > > Kuja > > > > > > > > > > > > dosha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? > > Please > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) > > into > > > > > > > > astrological > > > > > > > > > > > > analysis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the > > > > discussions > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no > > > > where. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to > > time > > > > an > > > > > > > > event but > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas > > occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's > > chart > > > > you > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the > > Ketu > > > > deha > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the > > way you > > > > > > read > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > mail, > > > > > > > > > > > > I did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for > > him, > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > gave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being > > Atma > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread > > on > > > > the > > > > > > > > topic, > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana > > Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in > > Swami > > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda's > > > > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and > > > > causing > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > powerful > > > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the > > Swamiji > > > > > > lived, > > > > > > > > > > you may > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act > > as > > > > > > > > Mahakrura. > > > > > > > > > > Think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, > > also, > > > > > > before > > > > > > > > > > declaring > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an > > > > > > icchamrityu > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I > > observe > > > > > > that he > > > > > > > > > > passed > > > > > > > > > > > > away > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from > > Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - > > 1909- > > > > 02- > > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > > > (3:59:13 > > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - > > > > 1903- > > > > > > 08-27 > > > > > > > > > > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - > > 1902- > > > > 09- > > > > > > 12 > > > > > > > > > > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - > > 1902- > > > > 07- > > > > > > 07 > > > > > > > > > > (5:06:28 > > > > > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - > > > > 1902- > > > > > > 07-06 > > > > > > > > > > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - > > 1902-07- > > > > 05 > > > > > > > > > > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, > > > > Venus > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, > > Ketu > > > > is > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > house of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and > > Saturn > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the > > maraka > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of > > his > > > > early > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into > > all > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK > > > > > > aspecting 7th > > > > > > > > > > house, > > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you > > > > ignore > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > influence of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the > > > > 10th > > > > > > > > house? I > > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja > > > > yoga:-- > > > > > > )) > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > without the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level > > impact > > > > he > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > > > wherever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what > > happened to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted > > Mars > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I > > > > think > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like > > Sita. You > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > commented > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at > > the > > > > > > bhava > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons > > already > > > > > > stated > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as > > belonging to > > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > > people, > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or > > > > otherwise > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > what I > > > > > > > > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a > > > > > > malignant > > > > > > > > > > sarcoma > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in > > 8th in > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > chart, in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent > > > > results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to > > > > > > examine > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun > > is the > > > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri > > Ramana's > > > > > > chart, > > > > > > > > rahu > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's > > > > > > effects...all of > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in > > 7th > > > > > > house and > > > > > > > > > > ketu > > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's > > > > > > effect, > > > > > > > > if at > > > > > > > > > > > > all, was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the > > killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from > > Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - > > 1955- > > > > 02- > > > > > > 03 > > > > > > > > > > (2:05:32 > > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - > > 1951- > > > > 02- > > > > > > 21 > > > > > > > > > > (8:49:14 > > > > > > > > > > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - > > 1950- > > > > 05- > > > > > > 18 > > > > > > > > > > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - > > 1950- > > > > 04- > > > > > > 20 > > > > > > > > > > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - > > > > 1950- > > > > > > 04-14 > > > > > > > > > > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - > > 1950- > > > > 04-14 > > > > > > > > > > (12:47:04 > > > > > > > > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact > > > > that > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about > > death. I > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > willed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa > > > > > > totally > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to > > consider > > > > the > > > > > > > > above > > > > > > > > > > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other > > > > charts/issues > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars > > > > > > strong as > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of > > debility > > > > even > > > > > > > > when in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn > > Viparitam > > > > shane > > > > > > > > > > smritam has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not > > > > considered > > > > > > > > > > Mars/Venus > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. > > > > > > Please go > > > > > > > > > > through > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn > > and > > > > > > Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary > > background > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known > > for > > > > its > > > > > > soft > > > > > > > > > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong > > Malefics > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > P.M. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a > > P.M. > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > attributed > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to > > > > imagine > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by > > Parashara or > > > > all > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > Pancha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different > > parts > > > > of > > > > > > > > India > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The > > sages > > > > > > gave us > > > > > > > > > > > > principles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life > > horoscope > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > > > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the > > shloka > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from > > an > > > > old > > > > > > > > classic > > > > > > > > > > > > respected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not > > seem > > > > to > > > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said > > by > > > > Dr. > > > > > > > > Raman, > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want > > the > > > > > > shloka > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with > > > > Shri > > > > > > B.V. > > > > > > > > > > Raman > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics > > give > > > > good > > > > > > > > results, > > > > > > > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you > > also > > > > > > > > disagree > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. > > Isn't it > > > > > > > > contrary to > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, > > > > where I > > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives > > krura > > > > > > nor > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun > > in > > > > > > lagna and > > > > > > > > > > mars > > > > > > > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in > > 2nd > > > > > > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted > > Mars > > > > in > > > > > > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars > > in 8th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: > > > > Exalted > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > (9H) > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in > > rasi, > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the > > reference > > > > > > > > > > for "vipareetam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer > > to > > > > > > Saturn's > > > > > > > > > > > > placement in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree > > strong > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > gives > > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the > > > > saying > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > because i > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and > > understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46% > > > > > > > > 40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the > > > > saying > > > > > > is, > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha- > > > > krura) > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura > > when > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH > > > > > > smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started > > when I > > > > > > was 9 > > > > > > > > years > > > > > > > > > > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you > > > > didn't > > > > > > > > notice > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand > > the > > > > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree > > that > > > > > > Rahu is > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are > > exceptionally > > > > > > good, > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my > > chart > > > > > > because > > > > > > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially > > when > > > > weak, > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while > > > > strong > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were > > > > weak, > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is > > hopelessly > > > > > > > > combust > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major > > > > results of > > > > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because > > > > > > according > > > > > > > > > > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with > > higher > > > > > > > > shadbala > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I > > request > > > > > > you to > > > > > > > > > > read the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. > > When he > > > > > > died, > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > nature > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest > > > > > > persons in > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because > > > > > > > > Parashurama > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately > > wanted to > > > > > > learn > > > > > > > > > > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support > > > > > > Duryodhana. > > > > > > > > > > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. > > But > > > > > > it's to > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > borne in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > Duryodhana, > > > > > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything > > > > > > personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd > > house > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the > > > > natural > > > > > > > > zodiac, > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, > > > > > > represents > > > > > > > > > > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by > > Yama, > > > > the > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > death, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial > > grounds. > > > > > > So, the > > > > > > > > > > Rudras > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, > > Sun > > > > > > > > resides in > > > > > > > > > > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from > > here. > > > > So > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that > > when I > > > > > > > > referred to > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as > > > > > > antaraatma > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post > > on the > > > > > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> <% > > > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young > > for > > > > the > > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that > > your > > > > > > father > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > > promotions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades > > during > > > > that > > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a > > young > > > > > > age of > > > > > > > > 9 > > > > > > > > > > or so > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am > > relieved > > > > you > > > > > > > > did not > > > > > > > > > > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 > > period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking > > about > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by > > > > > > conjunction, as > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > guessed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a > > > > > > Dharmakarmaadhipati > > > > > > > > yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding > > Sun its > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic > > not > > > > > > because I > > > > > > > > > > say so > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic > > when > > > > > > > > conjunct a > > > > > > > > > > papa > > > > > > > > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the > > apex of > > > > > > Artha > > > > > > > > > > trikona > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn > > money. > > > > > > Though > > > > > > > > > > claimed > > > > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush > > sthana > > > > > > (8th) > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But > > 8th > > > > is > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > popularly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called > > Smashana. > > > > If > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why > > > > would > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > be at > > > > > > > > > > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can > > not > > > > > > > > represent > > > > > > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste > > Chandrasekhar > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was > > > > excellent > > > > > > > > too. My > > > > > > > > > > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion (s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days > > > > were > > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > > and i > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in > > > > creative > > > > > > > > > > writing, > > > > > > > > > > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, > > for a > > > > > > > > student, I > > > > > > > > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify > > > > this, > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka > > results, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you > > think > > > > Rahu > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury > > is > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also > > > > represent > > > > > > > > burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is > > that a > > > > > > place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents > > all > > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > > bodies, > > > > > > > > > > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail > > has > > > > the > > > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > > > spam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > > > < <>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > > > < <>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > --- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is > > out- > > > > of- > > > > > > > > date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free > > Edition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus > > > > Database: > > > > > > > > > > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > > > > message > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > --- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > > > > > > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus > > Database: > > > > > > > > > > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > > message > > > > have > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > --- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming > > > > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New > > > > > > Version is > > > > > > > > > > > > radically > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to use" -- The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- ---- > > ---- > > > > --- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > > > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam > > protection > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > 1GB > > > > > > > > > > > > storage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with All New Mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- ---- > > ---- > > > > --- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > 268.12.2/442 - > > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've > > > > > > developed > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > > new Security Centre. > > > > > > http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. > > <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. > > <http://uk.security.> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>> > > > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>> > > > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.> > > <http://uk.security. <http://uk.security.>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ ---- > > ---- > > > > --- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning > > in > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > - > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now. > > > > > > > > http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>> > > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>>> > > > > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>> > > > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry> > > <http://www..co.uk/blackberry <http://www..co.uk/blackberry>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- ---- > > - > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > All New Mail -- Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our > > > > SpamGuard > > > > > > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ - > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release > > Date: > > > > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.