Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji, I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the shloka from Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply intoxication as an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication" belong in that context, in that group? I do not think either of you responded to that. perhaps you missed it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--)) Can i have your response(s) please? Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean intoxication > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which means > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, one of the > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the dormant or > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be misinterpreted if > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I would not > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to Maa. I have > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support your > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the awakened > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way my > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall not repeat > it here. > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote from > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. Being > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate it for you. > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. I would > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can improve > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions with > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing out the > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu combinations in two > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done so > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), moha > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards good > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented by > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious end > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > important. > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also always > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no purpose in > > continuing these discussions. > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > different > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So please > > do not > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > > will > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > physique. > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > being > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was expected > > to > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha how > > does > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > devotion to > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > > his chart. > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects of > > grahas > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be seen > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying > > to find > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps forgotten > > the > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > > and let > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did not > > say > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > > Sarcoma > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent as > > you > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > Mahadasha > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > Take care, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya > > is > > > > lord of > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At > > > > the same > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to > > think > > > > again > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > > what it > > > > did > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > > became > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the > > dass > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup- > > Ven- > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > > Moon > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus > > and > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn > > on > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even > > weak > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > > went. > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > > occupy > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), > > > > without > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then > > make > > > > up > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you > > > > know > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand > > > > and Mars > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > exaltation. Do > > > > you > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon (AK) & > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the > > > > death. > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > debilitation in > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in > > rasi > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already > > been > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor > > of a > > > > paper > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every > > > > graha is > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at > > the > > > > very > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > > > identical > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > Mahapurusha > > > > Yoga > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), > > > > just > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > > expected us > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > amongst > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > > does > > > > not fit > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > > > > exercise > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course > > be > > > > glad to > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > > > > planets, > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > > planets > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > > malefics > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > > > > jyotish > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > malefics > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > significations > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > > (4H). > > > > Mars > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the > > 8th > > > > house > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > > like to > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > > > around > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- ---- > > - > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, I was trying to translate Abhimana and not pride. And Pride in a King whom you have all along been trying to equate to a Divine being (I think amsha of Lord Vishnu or some such thing you said, while arguing why King is divine and by extension Surya; if memory serves me right), may not be a divine virtue but would certainly be tantamount to Ego. So please do not try to read something that is not there in the message. It is always difficult to translate Sanskrit words in English language due to limitation of words with different flavors in English. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > It is interesting to see that you do not think that pride and ego > are not one and the same thing. Please refer to your own message at > > /message/11735 > </message/11735> > > where you mentioned the following: > > "we find that Bhava Manjari does > attribute Abhimana (pride/ego) to Surya and so does Bhuvan Deepak." > > How come pride/ego are synonymous in the case of Sun and not so in > the case of Rahu? Is this fair? And, is this necessary? > > Isn't "abhimaana" a much milder word than "mada"? The > word "abhimaana" might have positive connotations, but the > word "mada" has absolutely no positive connotations. Pradeep may > not understand this but I am sure you do. > > Fair arguments never hurt me, sir, but this sort of arguments, > especially coming from you, certainly confound me. > > Can you quote any pramaana that says "mada" means only lust and not > pride/ego/vanity etc? > > Regarding vidyaa/avidyaa and auspicious/inauspicious nature of > Mother: > > Vidyaavidya swaroopini: 402nd name of Mother > > Vidyaamchaavidyaamchayasthadvedobhayam saH, avidyayaamritu > teerthva,vidyayaamritamasnutha, vidyaina charamavrittiroopam > jnaanam, avidyaa bhedabhraantiroopam jnaanam" > > Avidya results in mrityu while vidyaa results in immortality and > moiksha. Vidyaa gives charama vrittiroopa jnaanam, while avidya > gives bhedabhraanthiroopa jnaanam. > > So, which one is auspicious? The direction which gives > immortality/moksha or the direction which results in > differentiation, delusion and death? > > Further in the explanation of the name "BhadramoorthiH" it is stated > in Soubhagyabhaskaram that "brahmam tanmangalam". The true > auspiciousness is that after which no other inauspiciousness occurs. > In a state which is dominated by desires, delusions etc > (mooladhara), this is impossible. This state of " absoluteness > auspiciousness " is possible only at the state of Brahman > (sahasraara). > > "theshaamcha lokaapibahuvidhaaH parasivaabhinnamahaashaktistu > sarvalokaatheethaa mahaakailaasaaparaajithaadi padapratipaadye > sarvalokotthare tisthathi.anyaapaam sivashakteenaam kathipayaanam > saattwikshareeraanyapi sattwaadhikyagunaantharaalpatwa yukthaani na > punaH shuddhasattwaani.. > > "The form where Mother is one with shiva is the highest/mahaashakti > form. All shiva+shakti roopas are sattwa roopas, but those lower > than this are a mixture of rajo and tamo gunas. > > I hope these suffice, or if you want, I can quote more. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > intoxication > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > means > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, one > of the > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the dormant > or > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be misinterpreted > if > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I would > not > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to Maa. > I have > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support your > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > awakened > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way my > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall not > repeat > > it here. > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote from > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. Being > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate it > for you. > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. I > would > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > improve > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions with > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing out > the > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu combinations > in two > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done so > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > Take care, > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), > moha > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards > good > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented > by > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious > end > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > important. > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > always > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > purpose in > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > > different > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > please > > > do not > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > > > will > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > > physique. > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > > being > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > expected > > > to > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha > how > > > does > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > devotion to > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects > of > > > grahas > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be > seen > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > trying > > > to find > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > forgotten > > > the > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > > > and let > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did > not > > > say > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > > > Sarcoma > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > beneficent as > > > you > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > Mahadasha > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > Surya > > > is > > > > > lord of > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > yoga. At > > > > > the same > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have > to > > > think > > > > > again > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > > > what it > > > > > did > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > > > became > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at > the > > > dass > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in > Jup- > > > Ven- > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > > > Moon > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > Venus > > > and > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > stronger > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can > give > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > Saturn > > > on > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure > even > > > weak > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the > raja > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in > 7th > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented > on the > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > > > occupy > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > mail), > > > > > without > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and > then > > > make > > > > > up > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did > you > > > > > know > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left > hand > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > you > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following > dasa > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon > (AK) & > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun > and > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give > the > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was > only > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > graha > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > willed the > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation > in > > > rasi > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > already > > > been > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > Thakur's > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > message > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > editor > > > of a > > > > > paper > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > Every > > > > > graha is > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, > at > > > the > > > > > very > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all > give > > > > > identical > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > Saturn), > > > > > just > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > > > expected us > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > > amongst > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > > > does > > > > > not fit > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be > an > > > > > exercise > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > course > > > be > > > > > glad to > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > strong > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > > > planets > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > > > malefics > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all > the > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > > malefics > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > significations > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > > > (4H). > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in > the > > > 8th > > > > > house > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > > > like to > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > grahas > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial > or > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya > from > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in > mind > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions > and > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home > that > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > called > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- > ---- > > > - > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same place, and if Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments are acceptable. Unfortunately they are not. I see that you have not given anything in support of your argument barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I sent you. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > The three divisions are > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head come...in the > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other koota defined > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you imply that > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology mappings > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple principle in > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless you are > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to confuse > others (no comments). > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended that "bisa > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at Mooladhara > also they would have put it immediately after "mooladharaika > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python at > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at sahasraara. > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni tattwatmika at > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only from > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is ignited only when > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a group of > Panchadhasha > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the vacha. > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect the throat > and not > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her principal abode > is > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if you want to > distort > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are free to do > so. I > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja is most dear > to > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the reference). > It > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini means of the > coiled > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly does not mean > what > > you want to think it does. > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala Tantra. Do you > think > > it is wrong? > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa thadroopa"...Kundalini > as > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as vagbhava beeja > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the yamalas, i am > sure > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava koota...it's > the > > > head!! > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of the > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave tatratya > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH. > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is the > climactic > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, let me quote > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. maa > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the kundalini). > don't > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. It's time > for > > > taking leave. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), > > > moha > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. > As > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards > good > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > represented by > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, > is > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious > end > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > > important. > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > always > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, > if > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all > my > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > purpose > > > in > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > > > different > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > > please > > > > do not > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography > you > > > > will > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > > > being > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > > expected > > > > to > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha > > > how > > > > does > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > > devotion to > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis > of > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > effects > > > of > > > > grahas > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be > > > seen > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > trying > > > > to find > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > > forgotten > > > > the > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > perspective > > > > and let > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did > > > not > > > > say > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave > him > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > beneficent > > > as > > > > you > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > > > Surya > > > > is > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > yoga. > > > At > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may > have to > > > > think > > > > > > again > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think > about > > > > what it > > > > > > did > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that > it > > > > became > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at > the > > > > dass > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away > in > > > Jup- > > > > Ven- > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord > from > > > > Moon > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > > > Venus > > > > and > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > > stronger > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can > give > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > > > Saturn > > > > on > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure > even > > > > weak > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the > > > raja > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever > he > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars > in > > > 7th > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented > on > > > the > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > planets > > > > occupy > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > > > mail), > > > > > > without > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and > then > > > > make > > > > > > up > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. > Did > > > you > > > > > > know > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of > left > > > hand > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > you > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following > dasa > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon > (AK) > > > & > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with > Sun > > > and > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point > to > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can > give > > > the > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was > only > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > graha > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > willed > > > the > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > exaltation > > > in > > > > rasi > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > already > > > > been > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > > Thakur's > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > > message > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > editor > > > > of a > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > > > Every > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to > it, at > > > > the > > > > > > very > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all > give > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > > Saturn), > > > > > > just > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles > and > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference > to > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > > > amongst > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything > that > > > > does > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would > be an > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > > course > > > > be > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > strong > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while > weak > > > > planets > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > strong > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what > all the > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > significations > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and > Rahu > > > > (4H). > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated > in > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam > shaneH > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in > the > > > > 8th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i > would > > > > like to > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > second > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya > from > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in > mind > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, > hence > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions > and > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as > that > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed > but > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after > all) > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home > that > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > called > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > received > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving > the > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > ---- > > > -- > > > > - > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, The translation is by Dr. Murlidhar Chaturvedi Jyotishaacharya and Vidya Vaaridhi, of Sanskrit Vishwa Vidyalaya Varanasi, and Mada is translated as Mada only for obvious reasons. Rahu is more associated with intoxication and one can also be intoxicated with lust. Sukha is happiness is that not so? Why should Rahu when associated with Lust be Kalatra karaka? Moon is also attributed Lust by the Venerated Parashara. I do not finding him using such convoluted logic and make him Kalatra karaka. Of course for the sake of argument we may go on playing around with words to the exclusion of astrological principles, but that will not serve any purpose. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > I forgot to add: > > 1) you must be having a copy of Saravali yourself. Who translated > it? Can you share with us how the shloka had been translated and how > the word "mada" been treated? > > 2)If "mada" is lust, then is Rahu the karaka for sexual pleasures in > your view, and not Venus? Should Rahu become the kalatra karaka? > The "sukha" attributed to Venus by Kalyana Varma... does it not > encompass physical pleasures? If it does, then why did the author > choose to include "lust" as a separate karakatwa under a different > planet? Was he being redundant? > > 3) Sir, i would humbly request you to consider all these heated > discussions in the nature of an enquiry. My great regard and > affection for you remain the same, as yours remain for me. Please > forgive me if i have hurt you in the course of these discussions. > > All of us are winners here and no losers, because we all are > learning in the process, and I always liked to believe that one who > learns never loses:--)) > > regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > It is interesting to see that you do not think that pride and ego > > are not one and the same thing. Please refer to your own message at > > > > /message/11735 > </message/11735> > > > > where you mentioned the following: > > > > "we find that Bhava Manjari does > > attribute Abhimana (pride/ego) to Surya and so does Bhuvan Deepak." > > > > How come pride/ego are synonymous in the case of Sun and not so in > > the case of Rahu? Is this fair? And, is this necessary? > > > > Isn't "abhimaana" a much milder word than "mada"? The > > word "abhimaana" might have positive connotations, but the > > word "mada" has absolutely no positive connotations. Pradeep may > > not understand this but I am sure you do. > > > > Fair arguments never hurt me, sir, but this sort of arguments, > > especially coming from you, certainly confound me. > > > > Can you quote any pramaana that says "mada" means only lust and > not > > pride/ego/vanity etc? > > > > Regarding vidyaa/avidyaa and auspicious/inauspicious nature of > > Mother: > > > > Vidyaavidya swaroopini: 402nd name of Mother > > > > Vidyaamchaavidyaamchayasthadvedobhayam saH, avidyayaamritu > > teerthva,vidyayaamritamasnutha, vidyaina charamavrittiroopam > > jnaanam, avidyaa bhedabhraantiroopam jnaanam" > > > > Avidya results in mrityu while vidyaa results in immortality and > > moiksha. Vidyaa gives charama vrittiroopa jnaanam, while avidya > > gives bhedabhraanthiroopa jnaanam. > > > > So, which one is auspicious? The direction which gives > > immortality/moksha or the direction which results in > > differentiation, delusion and death? > > > > Further in the explanation of the name "BhadramoorthiH" it is > stated > > in Soubhagyabhaskaram that "brahmam tanmangalam". The true > > auspiciousness is that after which no other inauspiciousness > occurs. > > In a state which is dominated by desires, delusions etc > > (mooladhara), this is impossible. This state of " absoluteness > > auspiciousness " is possible only at the state of Brahman > > (sahasraara). > > > > "theshaamcha lokaapibahuvidhaaH parasivaabhinnamahaashaktistu > > sarvalokaatheethaa mahaakailaasaaparaajithaadi padapratipaadye > > sarvalokotthare tisthathi.anyaapaam sivashakteenaam kathipayaanam > > saattwikshareeraanyapi sattwaadhikyagunaantharaalpatwa yukthaani > na > > punaH shuddhasattwaani.. > > > > "The form where Mother is one with shiva is the > highest/mahaashakti > > form. All shiva+shakti roopas are sattwa roopas, but those lower > > than this are a mixture of rajo and tamo gunas. > > > > I hope these suffice, or if you want, I can quote more. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > intoxication > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > > means > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, one > > of the > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the dormant > > or > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be > misinterpreted > > if > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I > would > > not > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to > Maa. > > I have > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support > your > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > > awakened > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way my > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall not > > repeat > > > it here. > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote > from > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. Being > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate it > > for you. > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. I > > would > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > > improve > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions > with > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing out > > the > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu combinations > > in two > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done > so > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), > > moha > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. > As > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards > > good > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > represented > > by > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, > is > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious > > end > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > > important. > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > > always > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, > if > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all > my > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > purpose in > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > > > different > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > please > > > > do not > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography > you > > > > will > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > > > being > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > expected > > > > to > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja > dosha > > how > > > > does > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > > devotion to > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis > of > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > effects > > of > > > > grahas > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to > be > > seen > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > > trying > > > > to find > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > forgotten > > > > the > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > perspective > > > > and let > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I > did > > not > > > > say > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave > him > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > beneficent as > > > > you > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > > Surya > > > > is > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > > yoga. At > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may > have > > to > > > > think > > > > > > again > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think > about > > > > what it > > > > > > did > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that > it > > > > became > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at > > the > > > > dass > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away > in > > Jup- > > > > Ven- > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord > from > > > > Moon > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > > Venus > > > > and > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > stronger > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can > > give > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > > Saturn > > > > on > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure > > even > > > > weak > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without > the > > raja > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever > he > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars > in > > 7th > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented > > on the > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > planets > > > > occupy > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > > mail), > > > > > > without > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and > > then > > > > make > > > > > > up > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. > Did > > you > > > > > > know > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of > left > > hand > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > you > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following > > dasa > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon > > (AK) & > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with > Sun > > and > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point > to > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can > give > > the > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was > > only > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > > graha > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > willed the > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > exaltation > > in > > > > rasi > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > already > > > > been > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > Thakur's > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > message > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > > editor > > > > of a > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > > Every > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to > it, > > at > > > > the > > > > > > very > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all > > give > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > Saturn), > > > > > > just > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles > and > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference > to > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > > > amongst > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything > that > > > > does > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would > be > > an > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > course > > > > be > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > > strong > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while > weak > > > > planets > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > strong > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what > all > > the > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > significations > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and > Rahu > > > > (4H). > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated > in > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam > shaneH > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in > > the > > > > 8th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i > would > > > > like to > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > beneficial > > or > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > second > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya > > from > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, > hence > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions > > and > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as > that > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed > but > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after > all) > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home > > that > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > > called > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > received > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving > the > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > protection > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > -- > > ---- > > > > - > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, At least AI did not answer as I did not want to split hairs over whether all that is mentioned in the referred shloka is inner quality since I do not find Kalyan Varman mentioning or implying so. However as you want an reply, let me ask as to why if speech, attributed to Budha in the shloka, can be internal quality according to you then why should intoxication not be? Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji, > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the shloka from > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply intoxication as > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication" belong in that > context, in that group? > > I do not think either of you responded to that. perhaps you missed > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--)) > > Can i have your response(s) please? > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > intoxication > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > means > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, one > of the > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the dormant > or > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be misinterpreted > if > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I would > not > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to Maa. > I have > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support your > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > awakened > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way my > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall not > repeat > > it here. > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote from > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. Being > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate it > for you. > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. I > would > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > improve > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions with > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing out > the > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu combinations > in two > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done so > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > Take care, > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), > moha > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards > good > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented > by > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious > end > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > important. > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > always > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > purpose in > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > > different > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > please > > > do not > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > > > will > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > > physique. > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > > being > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > expected > > > to > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha > how > > > does > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > devotion to > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects > of > > > grahas > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be > seen > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > trying > > > to find > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > forgotten > > > the > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > > > and let > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did > not > > > say > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > > > Sarcoma > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > beneficent as > > > you > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > Mahadasha > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > Surya > > > is > > > > > lord of > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > yoga. At > > > > > the same > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have > to > > > think > > > > > again > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > > > what it > > > > > did > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > > > became > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at > the > > > dass > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in > Jup- > > > Ven- > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > > > Moon > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > Venus > > > and > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > stronger > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can > give > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > Saturn > > > on > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure > even > > > weak > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the > raja > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in > 7th > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented > on the > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > > > occupy > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > mail), > > > > > without > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and > then > > > make > > > > > up > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did > you > > > > > know > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left > hand > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > you > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following > dasa > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon > (AK) & > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun > and > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give > the > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was > only > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > graha > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > willed the > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation > in > > > rasi > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > already > > > been > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > Thakur's > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > message > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > editor > > > of a > > > > > paper > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > Every > > > > > graha is > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, > at > > > the > > > > > very > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all > give > > > > > identical > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > Saturn), > > > > > just > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > > > expected us > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > > amongst > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > > > does > > > > > not fit > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be > an > > > > > exercise > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > course > > > be > > > > > glad to > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > strong > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > > > planets > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > > > malefics > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all > the > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > > malefics > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > significations > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > > > (4H). > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in > the > > > 8th > > > > > house > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > > > like to > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > grahas > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial > or > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya > from > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in > mind > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions > and > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home > that > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > called > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- > ---- > > > - > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Dear Prabodh, You are not wrong when you say that "So in a Vedic Jyotish way the Sun in strength will have PRIDE in being ideal king' for his subjects(other Grahas)." But if the King is doing what is only his duty as per the Vedic Dharma, then pride in such context will be Ego. Most of the speeches that you quote, if read with due detachment and ignoring the personalities making them, would sound most egoist speeches to all and sundry. I know saying this would raise tempers on the list but truth must prevail. But one can go on arguing on this aspect to no end and bringing in the ideal king as an example of King and conjecturing the Parashara meant that King, while good for argument's sake may not be the right way to look at astrological principles. The first pitfall would be that though it is fashionable these days to say that all Kings of Vedic times acted as they should the fact remains that Puranas and Vedas are replete with stories of Kings who were very cruel t their subjects and harassed those performing vedic Rituals. When this is pointed out tempers flare which is a sure beginning of a rational discussion on the principles of astrology going awry. That is why it is better to steer clear of the scriptures when discussing astrology, specially on a public list, as the scriptures are subject to different interpretations. Do you think Mada does not mean intoxication or state of intoxication in Sanskrit? I am sure that Unmaada is one of the five arrows of Madana. And that is Mada represented by Rahu. That is what flows through the temporal glands of a bull elephant and then the bull elephant becomes uncontrollable like being intoxicated. Again if you happen to refer to kosha you will find synonyms for the five types of pride to be Garva, Abhimaana, Ahankara, Maana etc. While in English language Pride has certain connotation, to find exact synonyms to Sanskrit words is always difficult. Letting apart these discussions which will more often mislead than solve anything, let us at least agree that the sage does say that Rahu and Ketu behave as the lords of the house occupied by them or the lord of a house that they conjoin. If we are agreed on this then think why should Rahu, or Ketu for that matter, who can not deliver own results but has to depend on other planets to express itself would, by itself and devoid of other graha combination; be endowed with the quality of Ego by the writer. More so why when Rahu when alone is said to give results of Shani (Manda Sama Rahu..) as Shani is certainly not connected with ego by any stretch of imagination. Take care, Chandrashekhar. Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namste > > It was indeed a great plesure to read your mails regarding > interpretations of the astrological text and more specially how > Sanskrit language words can mislead at times. Now I have some doubts. > > I think Pride means Self-respect and Ego means Inflated or False > Pride. Parashara has attributed the Sun to being Raja or King. In the > vedic philosophy we see that Raja was suppose to take care of the > welfare of his subjects. In the Chandogya Upanishad the king > Ashvapati describes his kingdom and his subjects as: "In my kingdom > there is no thief,no coward,nor amiser,no drunked,nor is there one > who has not taken the vow of worship of the'Fire', no idots, nor men > of loose character.Where could therefore be here women without > morals?"(Chandogya 5-11). We as well see similar references in > Ramayana regarding RamaRajya. Rama says: I will forsake everything, > affection,compassion,happiness,even my beloved wife Janaki, for the > sake of the welfare of my subjects. I will not mind any affliction in > abondoning my wife for the good of my subjects". We find many such > references in RigVeda and Atherva veda as well. The great epic of > VedaVyasa as well gives similar attributes to King.Such was the > concept of the ideal of the institution of kingship, which every > Vedic king took PRIDE in realising. > > In the pasasge of Time there came the western counterpart for Vedic > Kings. In the west the mediaeval thinkers invested divine inheritance > on the king who was considered to be the representative of God. The > king having received his authority to rule by divine right was not > answerable to the people and therefore was an absolute in his own > right.The people had no right to rebel against the king or demand his > dethronement. The predominant thought behind that concept was to > bestow sovereign and absolute powers on the king. This naturally made > Kings to have 'inflated pride' or EGO. This western mediaeval concept > of king had great influence in Mediaeval indian kings as well. > > In Bharat, however, political thinkers never advocated or offered any > abolute power and authority to the king. Kingship was always regared > as subservient to the will and dependent upon the sanction of the > people and was alwyas answerable to them. So there was no concept > of 'Inflated or False Pride' in the Vedic King. The king being fully > aware that all his authority and power were derived from his > subjects would try to look to their welfare. > > So in a Vedic Jyotish way the Sun in strength will have PRIDE in > being ideal 'king' for his subjects(other Grahas). Same, if seen in > Western way can mean the Sun will have EGO. > > Moreover, we see that Western(foreign) cocept of Absolute power with > the King is exactly opposite that of Vedic concept of King. So in a > vedic way of thinking what is wrong in attributting Rahu to foreign > concept of inflated & false Pride or EGO.? > > Finally, Mada does mean Pride in sanskrit. When attributed to Rahu, > will naturally have the element of falsehood/deceit associated with > pride and hence may lead to EGO. Am I wrong? > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > Prabodh Vekhande > Jai Jai Shankar > Har Har Shankar > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > intoxication > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > means > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, one of > the > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the dormant or > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be misinterpreted > if > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I would > not > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to Maa. I > have > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support your > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the awakened > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way my > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall not > repeat > > it here. > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote from > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. Being > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate it for > you. > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. I > would > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > improve > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions with > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing out > the > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu combinations in > two > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done so > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > Take care, > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), > moha > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards good > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented by > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious end > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > important. > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also always > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no purpose > in > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > > different > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > please > > > do not > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > > > will > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > > physique. > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > > being > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > expected > > > to > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha > how > > > does > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > devotion to > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects > of > > > grahas > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be > seen > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying > > > to find > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > forgotten > > > the > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > > > and let > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did > not > > > say > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > > > Sarcoma > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent > as > > > you > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > Mahadasha > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > Surya > > > is > > > > > lord of > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > yoga. At > > > > > the same > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to > > > think > > > > > again > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > > > what it > > > > > did > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > > > became > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the > > > dass > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in > Jup- > > > Ven- > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > > > Moon > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > Venus > > > and > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > stronger > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > Saturn > > > on > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even > > > weak > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the > raja > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in > 7th > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on > the > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > > > occupy > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > mail), > > > > > without > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then > > > make > > > > > up > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did > you > > > > > know > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left > hand > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > you > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon > (AK) & > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun > and > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give > the > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was > only > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed > the > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation > in > > > rasi > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already > > > been > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > Thakur's > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > message > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor > > > of a > > > > > paper > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > Every > > > > > graha is > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at > > > the > > > > > very > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > > > > identical > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > Saturn), > > > > > just > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > > > expected us > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > > amongst > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > > > does > > > > > not fit > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be > an > > > > > exercise > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > course > > > be > > > > > glad to > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > strong > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > > > planets > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > > > malefics > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all > the > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > > malefics > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > significations > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > > > (4H). > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the > > > 8th > > > > > house > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > > > like to > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------- > --- > > > - > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Dear Lakshmi ji Infact i had answered it clearly.You had missed it.I did say what is the context for this shloka!!!quoting Dahsadhyayi karaka.The evolutionary order sequence in manushya relating Kalapurusha,Time,Planets,Body.It is also painful to make me repeat:-).This is also the order for 7 days of week.Neither in VarahaHora nor BPHS nor Jataka Parijata Rahu is mentioned along with Kalatma shloka.Only Kalyan Varma is mentioning.Kalyan Varma included the illusionary factor which can catalyse all of the above and result in dukham.But we are in this universe for such experiences and hence Rahu is a teacher as well.TIME is the best teacher. Thus we have to look for the meaning suiting the context.Why Rahu is just one among the shad ripus?Why not lust,kaama,moha,krodha? Rahu is not any of these.He makes us have all these.Sun called as Atma karaka is karaka for lagna in astrology.Am i wrong? Once he enters the body he is trapped and just wanders wherever the mind is taking ,until self realization.Am i wrong?What is BHagavatham mentioning about individual soul and its plight. Rahu does not enter on its own nor is it a feeling of ''I''.It is just our assumption.Rahu is formed by the contact between Atma/Mana padhas w.r to earth(our existence).Am i wrong astrononomically?Also this is happening within us(even if we take your inner qualities -intoxication is inside/inner.Beacause of its effect outside view is oscured).Why is it KalaSarpam?Is TIME EGO?.Rahu is a common catalyst.It is the clutch of TIME.Thats why planets between Rahu/Ketu are said to be between KaalaSarpam or TIME serpent. Now please tell me which meaning of mada suits the context?Rahu as just one among shad ripus?Rahu as lust? Or Rahu the intoxication or illusion surrounding us giving us a smoky/obscurant idea? Thanks Pradeep , "b_lakshmi_ramesh" <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji, > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the shloka from > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply intoxication as > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication" belong in that > context, in that group? > > I do not think either of you responded to that. perhaps you missed > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--)) > > Can i have your response(s) please? > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > , Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > intoxication > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > means > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, one > of the > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the dormant > or > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be misinterpreted > if > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I would > not > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to Maa. > I have > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support your > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > awakened > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way my > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall not > repeat > > it here. > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote from > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. Being > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate it > for you. > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. I > would > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > improve > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions with > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing out > the > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu combinations > in two > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done so > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > Take care, > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), > moha > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards > good > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented > by > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious > end > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > important. > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > always > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > purpose in > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > > different > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > please > > > do not > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > > > will > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > > physique. > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > > being > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > expected > > > to > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha > how > > > does > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > devotion to > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects > of > > > grahas > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be > seen > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > trying > > > to find > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > forgotten > > > the > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > > > and let > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did > not > > > say > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > > > Sarcoma > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > beneficent as > > > you > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > Mahadasha > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > Surya > > > is > > > > > lord of > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > yoga. At > > > > > the same > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have > to > > > think > > > > > again > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > > > what it > > > > > did > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > > > became > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at > the > > > dass > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in > Jup- > > > Ven- > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > > > Moon > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > Venus > > > and > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > stronger > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can > give > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > Saturn > > > on > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure > even > > > weak > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the > raja > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in > 7th > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented > on the > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > > > occupy > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > mail), > > > > > without > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and > then > > > make > > > > > up > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did > you > > > > > know > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left > hand > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > you > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following > dasa > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon > (AK) & > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun > and > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give > the > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was > only > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > graha > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > willed the > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation > in > > > rasi > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > already > > > been > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > Thakur's > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > message > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > editor > > > of a > > > > > paper > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > Every > > > > > graha is > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, > at > > > the > > > > > very > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all > give > > > > > identical > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > Saturn), > > > > > just > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > > > expected us > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > > amongst > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > > > does > > > > > not fit > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be > an > > > > > exercise > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > course > > > be > > > > > glad to > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > strong > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > > > planets > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > > > malefics > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all > the > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > > malefics > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > significations > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > > > (4H). > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in > the > > > 8th > > > > > house > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > > > like to > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > grahas > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial > or > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya > from > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in > mind > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions > and > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home > that > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > called > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- > ---- > > > - > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Pradeep, Only Kalyan Varma is mentioning.Kalyan Varma included > the illusionary factor which can catalyse all of the above and result > in dukham. Lakshmi: I must remind you that The Kalyana Varma reference was not chosen by me. It was chosen by Chandrasekhar ji and certified to be impeccable. Can you tell me if any other astro-book says that Saturn gives contrary results (except in 8th house)? I do not recall Parashara/Varahamihira saying it. If you can find it, please let me know. I must honestly say that Parashara/Varahamihira do not say anything about Rahu representing "mada". But have they explicitly said any thing about Sun having "ego" either? Were we not drawing convoluted conclusions then? Should we quote a book when it suits us and dump it when it doesn't? Pradeep, please do not think that I am championing either Sun or Rahu. I am sure you have read the mail where I said that Rahu is also capable of giving great spirituality when involved in such yogas. Infact what I have been fighting for all these days is for fair treatment of all planets. > Thus we have to look for the meaning suiting the context.Why Rahu is > just one among the shad ripus?Why not lust,kaama,moha,krodha? Rahu is > not any of these.He makes us have all these. Lakshmi: You are very correct. Rahu is the generator of "I"- a false feeling as a separate entity, which is the basis of ego (as defined/argued by you in the earlier mails). This feeling is also the basis of the shadripus which are based on one individual being different from other. Sun called as Atma karaka > is karaka for lagna in astrology.Am i wrong? Once he enters the body > he is trapped and just wanders wherever the mind is taking ,until self > realization.Am i wrong?What is BHagavatham mentioning about individual > soul and its plight. > > Rahu does not enter on its own nor is it a feeling of ''I''.It is just > our assumption. Lakshmi: Since we are talking about astrology, can you tell me why "kumbha" (pindanda)has been given the dual lordship by Saturn and Rahu? Why does birth take place? Because of karma (Saturn) and unsatisfied kaama (Rahu) or because of aatma? If birth takes place because of aatma, why should Aatma be unhappy or feel trapped in a body? I request you to reflect on these and answer. Why is Rahu called "Kaala sarpam" and represents Time? Does he cause day/night? does he cause seasons? Then why? It's because he causes the interminable birth cycle. According to your own/Chandrasekhar ji's previous e-mails, "ego" is a false feeling of differentiation. Now you yourself have said that " Rahu the intoxication or illusion surrounding us giving us a smoky/obscurant idea". I agree with all that you say. Now putting all this together, please tell me if Rahu does not give a illusiory/intoxicated/false idea of oneself. Btw, I really appreciate the way you research and i understand the way you feel about Rahu. I again reiterate that I have nothing against Rahu...my own Rahu dasa is excellent and is bringing me immense spiritual benefits, like the present discussion:--)) Regards, Lakshmi > > Thanks > Pradeep > > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji, > > > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the shloka from > > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an > > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply intoxication as > > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication" belong in that > > context, in that group? > > > > I do not think either of you responded to that. perhaps you missed > > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--)) > > > > Can i have your response(s) please? > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > intoxication > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > > means > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, one > > of the > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the dormant > > or > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be misinterpreted > > if > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I would > > not > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to Maa. > > I have > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support your > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > > awakened > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way my > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall not > > repeat > > > it here. > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote from > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. Being > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate it > > for you. > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. I > > would > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > > improve > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions with > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing out > > the > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu combinations > > in two > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done so > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), > > moha > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards > > good > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented > > by > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious > > end > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > > important. > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > > always > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > purpose in > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > > > different > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > please > > > > do not > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > > > > will > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > > > being > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > expected > > > > to > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha > > how > > > > does > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > > devotion to > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects > > of > > > > grahas > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be > > seen > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > > trying > > > > to find > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > forgotten > > > > the > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > > > > and let > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did > > not > > > > say > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > beneficent as > > > > you > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > > Surya > > > > is > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > > yoga. At > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have > > to > > > > think > > > > > > again > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > > > > what it > > > > > > did > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > > > > became > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at > > the > > > > dass > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in > > Jup- > > > > Ven- > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > > > > Moon > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > > Venus > > > > and > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > stronger > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can > > give > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > > Saturn > > > > on > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure > > even > > > > weak > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the > > raja > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in > > 7th > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented > > on the > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > > > > occupy > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > > mail), > > > > > > without > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and > > then > > > > make > > > > > > up > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did > > you > > > > > > know > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left > > hand > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > you > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following > > dasa > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon > > (AK) & > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun > > and > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give > > the > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was > > only > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > > graha > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > willed the > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation > > in > > > > rasi > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > already > > > > been > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > Thakur's > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > message > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > > editor > > > > of a > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > > Every > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, > > at > > > > the > > > > > > very > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all > > give > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > Saturn), > > > > > > just > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > > > amongst > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > > > > does > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be > > an > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > course > > > > be > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > > strong > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > > > > planets > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all > > the > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > significations > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > > > > (4H). > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in > > the > > > > 8th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > > > > like to > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial > > or > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya > > from > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions > > and > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home > > that > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > > called > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > protection > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > <> > > > > < <>> > > > > > > < <> > > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > > > < <>> > > > > > > < <> > > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > - > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- ---- > > - > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, What i meant by "inner" quality is an "inherent/natural " quality of human being. Please refer to my original mail in this respect. Now, all of us have soul, mind, strength, speech, knowledge, happiness, ego (sense of being different from others) and grief. Even a 5 year old kid has all these qualities, as appropriate to his/her age, unless handicapped. Are we intoxicated? Is the 5 year old intoxicated? Is "intoxication" a natural or unnatural quality? Is the bull elephant in a permanent state of intoxication? Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > At least AI did not answer as I did not want to split hairs over whether > all that is mentioned in the referred shloka is inner quality since I do > not find Kalyan Varman mentioning or implying so. However as you want an > reply, let me ask as to why if speech, attributed to Budha in the > shloka, can be internal quality according to you then why should > intoxication not be? > > Chandrashekhar. > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji, > > > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the shloka from > > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an > > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply intoxication as > > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication" belong in that > > context, in that group? > > > > I do not think either of you responded to that. perhaps you missed > > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--)) > > > > Can i have your response(s) please? > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > intoxication > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > > means > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, one > > of the > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the dormant > > or > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be misinterpreted > > if > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I would > > not > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to Maa. > > I have > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support your > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > > awakened > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way my > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall not > > repeat > > > it here. > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote from > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. Being > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate it > > for you. > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. I > > would > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > > improve > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions with > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing out > > the > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu combinations > > in two > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done so > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), > > moha > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards > > good > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented > > by > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious > > end > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > > important. > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > > always > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > purpose in > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > > > different > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > please > > > > do not > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > > > > will > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > > > being > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > expected > > > > to > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha > > how > > > > does > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > > devotion to > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects > > of > > > > grahas > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be > > seen > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > > trying > > > > to find > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > forgotten > > > > the > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > > > > and let > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did > > not > > > > say > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > beneficent as > > > > you > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > > Surya > > > > is > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > > yoga. At > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have > > to > > > > think > > > > > > again > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > > > > what it > > > > > > did > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > > > > became > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at > > the > > > > dass > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in > > Jup- > > > > Ven- > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > > > > Moon > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > > Venus > > > > and > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > stronger > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can > > give > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > > Saturn > > > > on > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure > > even > > > > weak > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the > > raja > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in > > 7th > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented > > on the > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > > > > occupy > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > > mail), > > > > > > without > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and > > then > > > > make > > > > > > up > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did > > you > > > > > > know > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left > > hand > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > you > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following > > dasa > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon > > (AK) & > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun > > and > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give > > the > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was > > only > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > > graha > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > willed the > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation > > in > > > > rasi > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > already > > > > been > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > Thakur's > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > message > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > > editor > > > > of a > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > > Every > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, > > at > > > > the > > > > > > very > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all > > give > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > Saturn), > > > > > > just > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > > > amongst > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > > > > does > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be > > an > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > course > > > > be > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > > strong > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > > > > planets > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all > > the > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > significations > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > > > > (4H). > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in > > the > > > > 8th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > > > > like to > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial > > or > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya > > from > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions > > and > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home > > that > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > > called > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > protection > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------- ----- > > ---- > > > > - > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- ----- > > - > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, Please tell me in the body divisions given according to kootas, is the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? Let's get this straight first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. Please do not worry about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, and can provide them by the ton:--)) When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean the portion upto neck or the portion upto forehead? Are you not splitting hairs here? Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same place, and if > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments are acceptable. > Unfortunately they are not. > > I see that you have not given anything in support of your argument > barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I sent you. > > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > The three divisions are > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head come...in the > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other koota defined > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you imply that > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology mappings > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple principle in > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless you are > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to confuse > > others (no comments). > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended that "bisa > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at Mooladhara > > also they would have put it immediately after "mooladharaika > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python at > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at sahasraara. > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni tattwatmika at > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only from > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is ignited only when > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a group of > > Panchadhasha > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the vacha. > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect the throat > > and not > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her principal abode > > is > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if you want to > > distort > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are free to do > > so. I > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja is most dear > > to > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the reference). > > It > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini means of the > > coiled > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly does not mean > > what > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala Tantra. Do you > > think > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa thadroopa"...Kundalini > > as > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as vagbhava beeja > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the yamalas, i am > > sure > > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava koota...it's > > the > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of the > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave tatratya > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is the > > climactic > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, let me quote > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. maa > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the kundalini). > > don't > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. It's time > > for > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), > > > > moha > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. > > As > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards > > good > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > represented by > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, > > is > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious > > end > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > > always > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, > > if > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all > > my > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > purpose > > > > in > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > > > > different > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > > > please > > > > > do not > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography > > you > > > > > will > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > > > > being > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > > > expected > > > > > to > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha > > > > how > > > > > does > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis > > of > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > > effects > > > > of > > > > > grahas > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be > > > > seen > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > > trying > > > > > to find > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > > > forgotten > > > > > the > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > perspective > > > > > and let > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did > > > > not > > > > > say > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave > > him > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > beneficent > > > > as > > > > > you > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > > > > Surya > > > > > is > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > > yoga. > > > > At > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may > > have to > > > > > think > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think > > about > > > > > what it > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that > > it > > > > > became > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at > > the > > > > > dass > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away > > in > > > > Jup- > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord > > from > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > > > > Venus > > > > > and > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > > > stronger > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can > > give > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > > > > Saturn > > > > > on > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure > > even > > > > > weak > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the > > > > raja > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever > > he > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars > > in > > > > 7th > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented > > on > > > > the > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > > planets > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > > > > mail), > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and > > then > > > > > make > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. > > Did > > > > you > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of > > left > > > > hand > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following > > dasa > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon > > (AK) > > > > & > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with > > Sun > > > > and > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point > > to > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can > > give > > > > the > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was > > only > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > > graha > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > willed > > > > the > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > exaltation > > > > in > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > already > > > > > been > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > > > message > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > > editor > > > > > of a > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > > > > Every > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to > > it, at > > > > > the > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all > > give > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles > > and > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference > > to > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything > > that > > > > > does > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would > > be an > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > > > course > > > > > be > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > > strong > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while > > weak > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > > strong > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what > > all the > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and > > Rahu > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated > > in > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam > > shaneH > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in > > the > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i > > would > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > protection > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------- ----- > > ---- > > > > -- > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------- ----- > > --- > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - > > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------- ---- > > > > -- > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. 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Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, Please translate the word "mada" also in all its nuances, and see why they all can not be applied to Rahu. Why close your mind to other meanings? I also notice that you have not provided any pramana that says that "mada" means only lust/intoxication and not pride/vanity/ego. I am still waiting for it. >From what Saravali says, I perceive "ego" to be the basic quality of all those born. it perpetuates survival and rebirth. If you disagree, can you provide a pramaana that says only a king can have ego and others can not. Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > I was trying to translate Abhimana and not pride. And Pride in a King > whom you have all along been trying to equate to a Divine being (I think > amsha of Lord Vishnu or some such thing you said, while arguing why King > is divine and by extension Surya; if memory serves me right), may not be > a divine virtue but would certainly be tantamount to Ego. > > So please do not try to read something that is not there in the message. > It is always difficult to translate Sanskrit words in English language > due to limitation of words with different flavors in English. > > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > It is interesting to see that you do not think that pride and ego > > are not one and the same thing. Please refer to your own message at > > > > /message/11735 > > </message/11735> > > > > where you mentioned the following: > > > > "we find that Bhava Manjari does > > attribute Abhimana (pride/ego) to Surya and so does Bhuvan Deepak." > > > > How come pride/ego are synonymous in the case of Sun and not so in > > the case of Rahu? Is this fair? And, is this necessary? > > > > Isn't "abhimaana" a much milder word than "mada"? The > > word "abhimaana" might have positive connotations, but the > > word "mada" has absolutely no positive connotations. Pradeep may > > not understand this but I am sure you do. > > > > Fair arguments never hurt me, sir, but this sort of arguments, > > especially coming from you, certainly confound me. > > > > Can you quote any pramaana that says "mada" means only lust and not > > pride/ego/vanity etc? > > > > Regarding vidyaa/avidyaa and auspicious/inauspicious nature of > > Mother: > > > > Vidyaavidya swaroopini: 402nd name of Mother > > > > Vidyaamchaavidyaamchayasthadvedobhayam saH, avidyayaamritu > > teerthva,vidyayaamritamasnutha, vidyaina charamavrittiroopam > > jnaanam, avidyaa bhedabhraantiroopam jnaanam" > > > > Avidya results in mrityu while vidyaa results in immortality and > > moiksha. Vidyaa gives charama vrittiroopa jnaanam, while avidya > > gives bhedabhraanthiroopa jnaanam. > > > > So, which one is auspicious? The direction which gives > > immortality/moksha or the direction which results in > > differentiation, delusion and death? > > > > Further in the explanation of the name "BhadramoorthiH" it is stated > > in Soubhagyabhaskaram that "brahmam tanmangalam". The true > > auspiciousness is that after which no other inauspiciousness occurs. > > In a state which is dominated by desires, delusions etc > > (mooladhara), this is impossible. This state of " absoluteness > > auspiciousness " is possible only at the state of Brahman > > (sahasraara). > > > > "theshaamcha lokaapibahuvidhaaH parasivaabhinnamahaashaktistu > > sarvalokaatheethaa mahaakailaasaaparaajithaadi padapratipaadye > > sarvalokotthare tisthathi.anyaapaam sivashakteenaam kathipayaanam > > saattwikshareeraanyapi sattwaadhikyagunaantharaalpatwa yukthaani na > > punaH shuddhasattwaani.. > > > > "The form where Mother is one with shiva is the highest/mahaashakti > > form. All shiva+shakti roopas are sattwa roopas, but those lower > > than this are a mixture of rajo and tamo gunas. > > > > I hope these suffice, or if you want, I can quote more. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > intoxication > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > > means > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, one > > of the > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the dormant > > or > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be misinterpreted > > if > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I would > > not > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to Maa. > > I have > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support your > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > > awakened > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way my > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall not > > repeat > > > it here. > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote from > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. Being > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate it > > for you. > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. I > > would > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > > improve > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions with > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing out > > the > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu combinations > > in two > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done so > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), > > moha > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards > > good > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented > > by > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious > > end > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > > important. > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > > always > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > purpose in > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > > > different > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > please > > > > do not > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > > > > will > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > > > being > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > expected > > > > to > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha > > how > > > > does > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > > devotion to > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects > > of > > > > grahas > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be > > seen > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > > trying > > > > to find > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > forgotten > > > > the > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > > > > and let > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did > > not > > > > say > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > beneficent as > > > > you > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > > Surya > > > > is > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > > yoga. At > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have > > to > > > > think > > > > > > again > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > > > > what it > > > > > > did > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > > > > became > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at > > the > > > > dass > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in > > Jup- > > > > Ven- > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > > > > Moon > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > > Venus > > > > and > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > stronger > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can > > give > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > > Saturn > > > > on > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure > > even > > > > weak > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the > > raja > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in > > 7th > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented > > on the > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > > > > occupy > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > > mail), > > > > > > without > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and > > then > > > > make > > > > > > up > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did > > you > > > > > > know > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left > > hand > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > you > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following > > dasa > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon > > (AK) & > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun > > and > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give > > the > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was > > only > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > > graha > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > willed the > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation > > in > > > > rasi > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > already > > > > been > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > Thakur's > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > message > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > > editor > > > > of a > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > > Every > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, > > at > > > > the > > > > > > very > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all > > give > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > Saturn), > > > > > > just > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > > > amongst > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > > > > does > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be > > an > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > course > > > > be > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > > strong > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > > > > planets > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all > > the > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > significations > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > > > > (4H). > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in > > the > > > > 8th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > > > > like to > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial > > or > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya > > from > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions > > and > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home > > that > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > > called > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > protection > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------- ----- > > ---- > > > > - > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- ----- > > - > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Pradeep, Thinking in retrospect, as I have written in the mail to Chandrasekhar ji, perhaps we are wrong in interpreting that "ego" is found only in some people. If we interpret dispassionately, perhaps Kalyan Varma has been RIGHTLY saying all along that ego ( necessary for perpetuation of Creation) is present in every being, as much as soul/mind or happiness/grief are present, yet I don't find us fighting about them. we need to accept that I have ego, you have ego, chandrasekhar ji has ego...all of us have it, perhaps in different degrees. How wrong was I to think that "ego" is peculiar only to some people!! How wrong was i to think that we are exceptions! "Ego" is part of the natural state of every individual...like the kundalini residing in mooladhara of every one. Only a blessed few succeed in reversing this ego, in dissolving this separateness. They cross this Vishnu Maaya and reach a state of Realization. Thanks for helping me reach this humbling yet exhilerating understanding. I have truly learnt something today. Regards, Lakshmi , "b_lakshmi_ramesh" <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Pradeep, > > Only Kalyan Varma is mentioning.Kalyan Varma included > > the illusionary factor which can catalyse all of the above and > result > > in dukham. > > Lakshmi: I must remind you that The Kalyana Varma reference was not > chosen by me. It was chosen by Chandrasekhar ji and certified to be > impeccable. > > Can you tell me if any other astro-book says that Saturn gives > contrary results (except in 8th house)? I do not recall > Parashara/Varahamihira saying it. If you can find it, please let me > know. > > I must honestly say that Parashara/Varahamihira do not say anything > about Rahu representing "mada". But have they explicitly said any > thing about Sun having "ego" either? Were we not drawing convoluted > conclusions then? > > Should we quote a book when it suits us and dump it when it doesn't? > > Pradeep, please do not think that I am championing either Sun or > Rahu. I am sure you have read the mail where I said that Rahu is > also capable of giving great spirituality when involved in such > yogas. Infact what I have been fighting for all these days is for > fair treatment of all planets. > > > Thus we have to look for the meaning suiting the context.Why Rahu > is > > just one among the shad ripus?Why not lust,kaama,moha,krodha? Rahu > is > > not any of these.He makes us have all these. > > Lakshmi: You are very correct. Rahu is the generator of "I"- a false > feeling as a separate entity, which is the basis of ego (as > defined/argued by you in the earlier mails). This feeling is also > the basis of the shadripus which are based on one individual being > different from other. > > Sun called as Atma karaka > > is karaka for lagna in astrology.Am i wrong? Once he enters the > body > > he is trapped and just wanders wherever the mind is taking ,until > self > > realization.Am i wrong?What is BHagavatham mentioning about > individual > > soul and its plight. > > > > Rahu does not enter on its own nor is it a feeling of ''I''.It is > just > > our assumption. > > Lakshmi: Since we are talking about astrology, can you tell me > why "kumbha" (pindanda)has been given the dual lordship by Saturn > and Rahu? Why does birth take place? Because of karma (Saturn) and > unsatisfied kaama (Rahu) or because of aatma? If birth takes place > because of aatma, why should Aatma be unhappy or feel trapped in a > body? I request you to reflect on these and answer. > > Why is Rahu called "Kaala sarpam" and represents Time? Does he cause > day/night? does he cause seasons? Then why? It's because he causes > the interminable birth cycle. > > According to your own/Chandrasekhar ji's previous e-mails, "ego" is > a false feeling of differentiation. Now you yourself have said > that " Rahu the intoxication or illusion surrounding us giving us a > smoky/obscurant idea". > > I agree with all that you say. Now putting all this together, please > tell me if Rahu does not give a illusiory/intoxicated/false idea of > oneself. > > Btw, I really appreciate the way you research and i understand the > way you feel about Rahu. I again reiterate that I have nothing > against Rahu...my own Rahu dasa is excellent and is bringing me > immense spiritual benefits, like the present discussion:--)) > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > Pradeep > > > > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji, > > > > > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the shloka from > > > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an > > > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply intoxication > as > > > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication" belong in that > > > context, in that group? > > > > > > I do not think either of you responded to that. perhaps you > missed > > > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--)) > > > > > > Can i have your response(s) please? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > > intoxication > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > > > means > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, > one > > > of the > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the > dormant > > > or > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be > misinterpreted > > > if > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I > would > > > not > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to > Maa. > > > I have > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support > your > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > > > awakened > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way > my > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall > not > > > repeat > > > > it here. > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote > from > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. > Being > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate > it > > > for you. > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. > I > > > would > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > > > improve > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions > with > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing > out > > > the > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu > combinations > > > in two > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done > so > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > (greed), > > > moha > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > facets. As > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > towards > > > good > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > wisdom, > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > represented > > > by > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > power, is > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > correct/judicious > > > end > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > > > always > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > results, if > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to > all my > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > > purpose in > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating > at > > > > > different > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > > please > > > > > do not > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > biography you > > > > > will > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > robust > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with > his > > > > > being > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > > expected > > > > > to > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja > dosha > > > how > > > > > does > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > analysis of > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > effects > > > of > > > > > grahas > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to > be > > > seen > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > > > trying > > > > > to find > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > > forgotten > > > > > the > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > perspective > > > > > and let > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I > did > > > not > > > > > say > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > gave him > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > beneficent as > > > > > you > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's > chart > > > Surya > > > > > is > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > > > yoga. At > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may > have > > > to > > > > > think > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think > about > > > > > what it > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring > that it > > > > > became > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking > at > > > the > > > > > dass > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > away in > > > Jup- > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 > pm) > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 > pm) > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord > from > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house > of > > > Venus > > > > > and > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord > from > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > > stronger > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, > can > > > give > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence > of > > > Saturn > > > > > on > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > sure > > > even > > > > > weak > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without > the > > > raja > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > wherever he > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > Mars in > > > 7th > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > commented > > > on the > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > planets > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > previous > > > mail), > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, > and > > > then > > > > > make > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. > Did > > > you > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of > left > > > hand > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > following > > > dasa > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from > Moon > > > (AK) & > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with > Sun > > > and > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > point to > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can > give > > > the > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, > was > > > only > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 > am) > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 > am) > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > > > graha > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > > willed the > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > exaltation > > > in > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > > already > > > > > been > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > > message > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > > > editor > > > > > of a > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > Yogas. > > > Every > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to > it, > > > at > > > > > the > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would > all > > > give > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles > and > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > reference to > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > respected > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything > that > > > > > does > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > would be > > > an > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > > course > > > > > be > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > > > strong > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while > weak > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > strong > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what > all > > > the > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > strong > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in > 5th > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and > Rahu > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > debilitated in > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam > shaneH > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement > in > > > the > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i > would > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > beneficial > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, > and > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > second > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according > to > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > results > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > dhanurvidya > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne > in > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 > th > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south > and > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala > in > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya > as > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > promotions > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as > that > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have > any > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > would > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > home > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its > most > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > received > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving > the > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so > why > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > protection > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > > > > < <>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > > > > < <>> > > > > > > > < <> > > > > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- -- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ -- > ---- > > > - > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, Thanks for sharing the nice shloka with us. I am sorry that I had indeed overlooked responding to it. In this regard, I have already given my explanation of what's auspicious and what's not, based on Soubhagya Bhaskaram. Can you please explain to me how you understand the phrase "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä". Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same place, and if > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments are acceptable. > Unfortunately they are not. > > I see that you have not given anything in support of your argument > barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I sent you. > > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > The three divisions are > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head come...in the > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other koota defined > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you imply that > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology mappings > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple principle in > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless you are > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to confuse > > others (no comments). > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended that "bisa > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at Mooladhara > > also they would have put it immediately after "mooladharaika > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python at > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at sahasraara. > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni tattwatmika at > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only from > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is ignited only when > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a group of > > Panchadhasha > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the vacha. > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect the throat > > and not > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her principal abode > > is > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if you want to > > distort > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are free to do > > so. I > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja is most dear > > to > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the reference). > > It > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini means of the > > coiled > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly does not mean > > what > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala Tantra. Do you > > think > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa thadroopa"...Kundalini > > as > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as vagbhava beeja > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the yamalas, i am > > sure > > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava koota...it's > > the > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of the > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave tatratya > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is the > > climactic > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, let me quote > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. maa > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the kundalini). > > don't > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. It's time > > for > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), > > > > moha > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. > > As > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards > > good > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > represented by > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, > > is > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious > > end > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > > always > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, > > if > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all > > my > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > purpose > > > > in > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > > > > different > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > > > please > > > > > do not > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography > > you > > > > > will > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > > > > being > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > > > expected > > > > > to > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha > > > > how > > > > > does > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis > > of > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > > effects > > > > of > > > > > grahas > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be > > > > seen > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > > trying > > > > > to find > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > > > forgotten > > > > > the > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > perspective > > > > > and let > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did > > > > not > > > > > say > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave > > him > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > beneficent > > > > as > > > > > you > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > > > > Surya > > > > > is > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > > yoga. > > > > At > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may > > have to > > > > > think > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think > > about > > > > > what it > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that > > it > > > > > became > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at > > the > > > > > dass > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away > > in > > > > Jup- > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord > > from > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > > > > Venus > > > > > and > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > > > stronger > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can > > give > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > > > > Saturn > > > > > on > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure > > even > > > > > weak > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the > > > > raja > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever > > he > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars > > in > > > > 7th > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented > > on > > > > the > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > > planets > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > > > > mail), > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and > > then > > > > > make > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. > > Did > > > > you > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of > > left > > > > hand > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following > > dasa > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon > > (AK) > > > > & > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with > > Sun > > > > and > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point > > to > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can > > give > > > > the > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was > > only > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > > graha > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > willed > > > > the > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > exaltation > > > > in > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > already > > > > > been > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > > > message > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > > editor > > > > > of a > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > > > > Every > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to > > it, at > > > > > the > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all > > give > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles > > and > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference > > to > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything > > that > > > > > does > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would > > be an > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > > > course > > > > > be > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > > strong > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while > > weak > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > > strong > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what > > all the > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and > > Rahu > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated > > in > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam > > shaneH > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in > > the > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i > > would > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > protection > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------- ----- > > ---- > > > > -- > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------- ----- > > --- > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - > > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------- ---- > > > > -- > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. 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Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Dear Chandrashekhar Ji namste >Most of the > speeches that you quote, if read with due detachment and ignoring the > personalities making them, would sound most egoist speeches to all and > sundry. I know saying this would raise > tempers on the list but truth must prevail. Exactly. Truth must prevail. Why a passionate speech by a vedic king should be treated as expression of Ego? If this is ego then every thing by a king towards his subjects will be ego. Ofcourse, I am nobody to object your views about that but it would be interesting to find out what excatly you considered as egoist in those speeches. > But one can go on arguing on this aspect to no end and bringing in the > ideal king as an example of King and conjecturing the Parashara meant > that King, while good for argument's sake may not be the right way to > look at astrological principles. I wanted to say that in a Vedic context, King means who takes pride in the welfare of the subjects and will not have absolute power like in western philosophy. Such vedic king may be ideal or may not be ideal but what vedic scriptures say must be kept in mind. If we believe that Parashara is vedic Jyotish Pravartak then there is no question about what he had in mind when he said about Surya being King. Terms which are Vedic should be treated on the Vedic context. It does not matter as to how many kings were cruel towards subjects in Vedic times what matters is that how scriptures describe the king.What are his duties and what should be his authority and how he should excercise it? That is why it essential to get in to what Vedas and Manu says about king's duties. If you feel that I am unnecessarily getting this point, I respectfully request you to please think on this. > Do you think Mada does not mean intoxication or state of intoxication in > Sanskrit? Mada does mean Intoxication but point is that it as well means Pride! Why to forget this? If Kalyan Verma says that Rahu is associated with Mada then all meanings of Mada will be associated with Rahu. That will include being intoxicated and as well being into state of Pride. Since rahu as well is understood as 'limitless' so naturally pride will be limitless and hence will be Ego. There is no doubt that Rahu gives the results like Shani or the lord of the house occupied by him but this possibly we apply more, when we are into timing of events. Otherwise why Parashara has said few things only related to Rahu? Like he says that 5th house Rahu when aspected by Mars or in the houses of Mars then the native will have problems in the progeny. He could have simply said in one line that Rahu should be Always treated as lord of the house occupied by him or like Shani and that would have ended the references of Rahu. But parashara clearly gives the independent references of Rahu. Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. Prabodh Vekhande Jai Jai Shankar Har Har Shankar , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Prabodh, > > You are not wrong when you say that "So in a Vedic Jyotish way the Sun > in strength will have PRIDE in being ideal king' for his subjects (other > Grahas)." But if the King is doing what is only his duty as per the > Vedic Dharma, then pride in such context will be Ego. Most of the > speeches that you quote, if read with due detachment and ignoring the > personalities making them, would sound most egoist speeches to all and > sundry. I know saying this would raise > tempers on the list but truth must prevail. > > But one can go on arguing on this aspect to no end and bringing in the > ideal king as an example of King and conjecturing the Parashara meant > that King, while good for argument's sake may not be the right way to > look at astrological principles. The first pitfall would be that though > it is fashionable these days to say that all Kings of Vedic times acted > as they should the fact remains that Puranas and Vedas are replete with > stories of Kings who were very cruel t their subjects and harassed those > performing vedic Rituals. When this is pointed out tempers flare which > is a sure beginning of a rational discussion on the principles of > astrology going awry. > > That is why it is better to steer clear of the scriptures when > discussing astrology, specially on a public list, as the scriptures are > subject to different interpretations. > > Do you think Mada does not mean intoxication or state of intoxication in > Sanskrit? I am sure that Unmaada is one of the five arrows of Madana. > And that is Mada represented by Rahu. That is what flows through the > temporal glands of a bull elephant and then the bull elephant becomes > uncontrollable like being intoxicated. > > Again if you happen to refer to kosha you will find synonyms for the > five types of pride to be Garva, Abhimaana, Ahankara, Maana etc. While > in English language Pride has certain connotation, to find exact > synonyms to Sanskrit words is always difficult. > > Letting apart these discussions which will more often mislead than solve > anything, let us at least agree that the sage does say that Rahu and > Ketu behave as the lords of the house occupied by them or the lord of a > house that they conjoin. > > If we are agreed on this then think why should Rahu, or Ketu for that > matter, who can not deliver own results but has to depend on other > planets to express itself would, by itself and devoid of other graha > combination; be endowed with the quality of Ego by the writer. More so > why when Rahu when alone is said to give results of Shani (Manda Sama > Rahu..) as Shani is certainly not connected with ego by any stretch of > imagination. > > Take care, > Chandrashekhar. > > > Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namste > > > > It was indeed a great plesure to read your mails regarding > > interpretations of the astrological text and more specially how > > Sanskrit language words can mislead at times. Now I have some doubts. > > > > I think Pride means Self-respect and Ego means Inflated or False > > Pride. Parashara has attributed the Sun to being Raja or King. In the > > vedic philosophy we see that Raja was suppose to take care of the > > welfare of his subjects. In the Chandogya Upanishad the king > > Ashvapati describes his kingdom and his subjects as: "In my kingdom > > there is no thief,no coward,nor amiser,no drunked,nor is there one > > who has not taken the vow of worship of the'Fire', no idots, nor men > > of loose character.Where could therefore be here women without > > morals?"(Chandogya 5-11). We as well see similar references in > > Ramayana regarding RamaRajya. Rama says: I will forsake everything, > > affection,compassion,happiness,even my beloved wife Janaki, for the > > sake of the welfare of my subjects. I will not mind any affliction in > > abondoning my wife for the good of my subjects". We find many such > > references in RigVeda and Atherva veda as well. The great epic of > > VedaVyasa as well gives similar attributes to King.Such was the > > concept of the ideal of the institution of kingship, which every > > Vedic king took PRIDE in realising. > > > > In the pasasge of Time there came the western counterpart for Vedic > > Kings. In the west the mediaeval thinkers invested divine inheritance > > on the king who was considered to be the representative of God. The > > king having received his authority to rule by divine right was not > > answerable to the people and therefore was an absolute in his own > > right.The people had no right to rebel against the king or demand his > > dethronement. The predominant thought behind that concept was to > > bestow sovereign and absolute powers on the king. This naturally made > > Kings to have 'inflated pride' or EGO. This western mediaeval concept > > of king had great influence in Mediaeval indian kings as well. > > > > In Bharat, however, political thinkers never advocated or offered any > > abolute power and authority to the king. Kingship was always regared > > as subservient to the will and dependent upon the sanction of the > > people and was alwyas answerable to them. So there was no concept > > of 'Inflated or False Pride' in the Vedic King. The king being fully > > aware that all his authority and power were derived from his > > subjects would try to look to their welfare. > > > > So in a Vedic Jyotish way the Sun in strength will have PRIDE in > > being ideal 'king' for his subjects(other Grahas). Same, if seen in > > Western way can mean the Sun will have EGO. > > > > Moreover, we see that Western(foreign) cocept of Absolute power with > > the King is exactly opposite that of Vedic concept of King. So in a > > vedic way of thinking what is wrong in attributting Rahu to foreign > > concept of inflated & false Pride or EGO.? > > > > Finally, Mada does mean Pride in sanskrit. When attributed to Rahu, > > will naturally have the element of falsehood/deceit associated with > > pride and hence may lead to EGO. Am I wrong? > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > > > Prabodh Vekhande > > Jai Jai Shankar > > Har Har Shankar > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > intoxication > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > > means > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, one of > > the > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the dormant or > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be misinterpreted > > if > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I would > > not > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to Maa. I > > have > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support your > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the awakened > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way my > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall not > > repeat > > > it here. > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote from > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. Being > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate it for > > you. > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. I > > would > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > > improve > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions with > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing out > > the > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu combinations in > > two > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done so > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), > > moha > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards good > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented by > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious end > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > > important. > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also always > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no purpose > > in > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > > > different > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > please > > > > do not > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > > > > will > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > > > being > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > expected > > > > to > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha > > how > > > > does > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > > devotion to > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects > > of > > > > grahas > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be > > seen > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying > > > > to find > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > forgotten > > > > the > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > > > > and let > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did > > not > > > > say > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent > > as > > > > you > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > > Surya > > > > is > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > > yoga. At > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to > > > > think > > > > > > again > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > > > > what it > > > > > > did > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > > > > became > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the > > > > dass > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in > > Jup- > > > > Ven- > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > > > > Moon > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > > Venus > > > > and > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > stronger > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > > Saturn > > > > on > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even > > > > weak > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the > > raja > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in > > 7th > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on > > the > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > > > > occupy > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > > mail), > > > > > > without > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then > > > > make > > > > > > up > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did > > you > > > > > > know > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left > > hand > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > you > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon > > (AK) & > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun > > and > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give > > the > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was > > only > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed > > the > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation > > in > > > > rasi > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already > > > > been > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > Thakur's > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > message > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor > > > > of a > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > > Every > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at > > > > the > > > > > > very > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > Saturn), > > > > > > just > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > > > amongst > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > > > > does > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be > > an > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > course > > > > be > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > > strong > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > > > > planets > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all > > the > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > significations > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > > > > (4H). > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the > > > > 8th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > > > > like to > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > protection > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- ----- > > --- > > > > - > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- ----- > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, Have you not heard about unmaada in even 3 year old children? Please think about this before declaring that it is not possible in 5 years old. And congenital conditions where impure blood flows t heart causing comatose conditions that can be equated to intoxication? I do not think I have said that a Bull elephant is in a permanent state of intoxication. I have only used its example to indicate what is Mada. If the test of what is inner quality is being in that state permanently then even your definition of ego suffers from not being so in very young children. Nor is lust in existence from young age. Ask any medical practitioner and he will tell that I am not wrong. Not that I think the parameter is right. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > What i meant by "inner" quality is an "inherent/natural " quality of > human being. Please refer to my original mail in this respect. > > Now, all of us have soul, mind, strength, speech, knowledge, > happiness, ego (sense of being different from others) and grief. > Even a 5 year old kid has all these qualities, as appropriate to > his/her age, unless handicapped. Are we intoxicated? Is the 5 year > old intoxicated? Is "intoxication" a natural or unnatural quality? > Is the bull elephant in a permanent state of intoxication? > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > At least AI did not answer as I did not want to split hairs over > whether > > all that is mentioned in the referred shloka is inner quality > since I do > > not find Kalyan Varman mentioning or implying so. However as you > want an > > reply, let me ask as to why if speech, attributed to Budha in the > > shloka, can be internal quality according to you then why should > > intoxication not be? > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji, > > > > > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the shloka from > > > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an > > > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply intoxication > as > > > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication" belong in that > > > context, in that group? > > > > > > I do not think either of you responded to that. perhaps you > missed > > > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--)) > > > > > > Can i have your response(s) please? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > > intoxication > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > > > means > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, > one > > > of the > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the > dormant > > > or > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be > misinterpreted > > > if > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I > would > > > not > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to > Maa. > > > I have > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support > your > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > > > awakened > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way > my > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall > not > > > repeat > > > > it here. > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote > from > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. > Being > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate > it > > > for you. > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your > contention. I > > > would > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > > > improve > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions > with > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing > out > > > the > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu > combinations > > > in two > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have > done so > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > (greed), > > > moha > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > (jealousy) > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk > with > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > facets. As > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > towards > > > good > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > wisdom, > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > represented > > > by > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > power, is > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > correct/judicious > > > end > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > > > always > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > results, if > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to > all my > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > > purpose in > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > operating at > > > > > different > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > > please > > > > > do not > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > biography you > > > > > will > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > robust > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with > his > > > > > being > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > > expected > > > > > to > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja > dosha > > > how > > > > > does > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > analysis of > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > effects > > > of > > > > > grahas > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have > to be > > > seen > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > > > trying > > > > > to find > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > > forgotten > > > > > the > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > perspective > > > > > and let > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I > did > > > not > > > > > say > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > gave him > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > beneficent as > > > > > you > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's > chart > > > Surya > > > > > is > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > > > yoga. At > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may > have > > > to > > > > > think > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think > about > > > > > what it > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring > that it > > > > > became > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking > at > > > the > > > > > dass > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > away in > > > Jup- > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 > pm) > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 > pm) > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 > pm) > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 > am) > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd > lord from > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house > of > > > Venus > > > > > and > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord > from > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > > stronger > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, > can > > > give > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence > of > > > Saturn > > > > > on > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > sure > > > even > > > > > weak > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without > the > > > raja > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > wherever he > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > Mars in > > > 7th > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > commented > > > on the > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > planets > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > previous > > > mail), > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, > and > > > then > > > > > make > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > said. Did > > > you > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of > left > > > hand > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > following > > > dasa > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from > Moon > > > (AK) & > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is > with Sun > > > and > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > point to > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can > give > > > the > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, > was > > > only > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 > pm) > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 > am) > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 > am) > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 > am) > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > > > graha > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > > willed the > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet > in > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > exaltation > > > in > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > > already > > > > > been > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > > message > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > > > editor > > > > > of a > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > Yogas. > > > Every > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to > it, > > > at > > > > > the > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would > all > > > give > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > principles and > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > reference to > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > respected > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > anything that > > > > > does > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > would be > > > an > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > > course > > > > > be > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > > > strong > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > while weak > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > strong > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what > all > > > the > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > strong > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in > 5th > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and > Rahu > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > debilitated in > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam > shaneH > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement > in > > > the > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i > would > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > beneficial > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, > and > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > second > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according > to > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > results > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even > if > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > dhanurvidya > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne > in > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house > (I > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 > th > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south > and > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya > as > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as > a > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > promotions > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so > as that > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have > any > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > would > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > after all) > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead > of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so > but > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona > and > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to > be > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > home > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its > most > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > received > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > giving the > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so > why > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > protection > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------- > ----- > > > ---- > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.11.7/435 - > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- > ----- > > > - > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from scriptures that you have that state that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious. That will help enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja and other Kootas. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > Please tell me in the body divisions given according to kootas, is > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? Let's get this straight > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. Please do not worry > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, and can provide > them by the ton:--)) > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean the portion upto neck > or the portion upto forehead? > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same place, > and if > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments are > acceptable. > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support of your argument > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I sent > you. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head come...in > the > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other koota > defined > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you imply that > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology mappings > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple principle in > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless you are > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to confuse > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended that "bisa > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at Mooladhara > > > also they would have put it immediately after "mooladharaika > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python at > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at sahasraara. > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni tattwatmika at > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only from > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is ignited only > when > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a group of > > > Panchadhasha > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the vacha. > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect the > throat > > > and not > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her principal > abode > > > is > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if you want > to > > > distort > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are free to > do > > > so. I > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja is most > dear > > > to > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the > reference). > > > It > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini means of > the > > > coiled > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly does not > mean > > > what > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala Tantra. Do > you > > > think > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > as > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as vagbhava > beeja > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the yamalas, i > am > > > sure > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava > koota...it's > > > the > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of the > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave > tatratya > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is the > > > climactic > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, let me > quote > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. maa > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the > kundalini). > > > don't > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. It's > time > > > for > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > (greed), > > > > > moha > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > (jealousy) > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk > with > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > correct > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > facets. > > > As > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > towards > > > good > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > wisdom, > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > represented by > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > power, > > > is > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > correct/judicious > > > end > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very > very > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I > also > > > always > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > results, > > > if > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer > to all > > > my > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing > an > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration > and > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > > purpose > > > > > in > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > operating at > > > > > > different > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. > So > > > > > please > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > biography > > > you > > > > > > will > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > robust > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms > with his > > > > > > being > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I > was > > > > > expected > > > > > > to > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja > dosha > > > > > how > > > > > > does > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring > our > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > analysis > > > of > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > > > effects > > > > > of > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have > to be > > > > > seen > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but > only > > > trying > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > the > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > > perspective > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, > I did > > > > > not > > > > > > say > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > gave > > > him > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > beneficent > > > > > as > > > > > > you > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did > its > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's > chart > > > > > Surya > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful > Raj > > > yoga. > > > > > At > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may > > > have to > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think > > > about > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring > that > > > it > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > looking at > > > the > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > away > > > in > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 > pm) > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 > am) > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd > lord > > > from > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > house of > > > > > Venus > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord > from > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations > are > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, > can > > > give > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > influence of > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > sure > > > even > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but > without the > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > wherever > > > he > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > Mars > > > in > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > commented > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > > > planets > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > previous > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, > and > > > then > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > said. > > > Did > > > > > you > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma > of > > > left > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > following > > > dasa > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from > Moon > > > (AK) > > > > > & > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is > with > > > Sun > > > > > and > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > point > > > to > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu > can > > > give > > > > > the > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at > all, was > > > only > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 > pm) > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 > am) > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > (11:08:26 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of > the > > > graha > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > > willed > > > > > the > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > planet in > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > > exaltation > > > > > in > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > > already > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus > in > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through > my > > > > > message > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he > was > > > editor > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > Yogas. > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed > to > > > it, at > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would > all > > > give > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > (barring > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > principles > > > and > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > reference > > > to > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > respected > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > anything > > > that > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > would > > > be an > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would > of > > > > > course > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman > that > > > strong > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > while > > > weak > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > > > strong > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to > what > > > all the > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > strong > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars > in 5th > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) > and > > > Rahu > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > debilitated > > > in > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > placement in > > > the > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i > > > would > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > shubha > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > nature > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > dhanurvidya > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > borne in > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > death, > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of > the > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > promotions > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so > as > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > guessed > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > after > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead > of > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > home > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > popularly > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > giving > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > protection > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------- > ----- > > > ---- > > > > > -- > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------- > ----- > > > --- > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - > > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------- > ---- > > > > > -- > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. 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Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, The pramana to ancient text is indeed difficult to give, as there are no Sanskrit to English dictionaries that were written by the ancient sages. You may, however, like to refer to Monier William dictionary that translates Sanskrit words to English as we are talking about English words. I would, personally, refer to Sanskrit Kosha of Apte in hard copy. Higher Sanskrit Grammar of M.R. Kale is another good source. The meaning of Mada is made very clear there. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > Please translate the word "mada" also in all its nuances, and see > why they all can not be applied to Rahu. Why close your mind to > other meanings? > > I also notice that you have not provided any pramana that says > that "mada" means only lust/intoxication and not pride/vanity/ego. I > am still waiting for it. > > >From what Saravali says, I perceive "ego" to be the basic quality of > all those born. it perpetuates survival and rebirth. If you > disagree, can you provide a pramaana that says only a king can have > ego and others can not. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > I was trying to translate Abhimana and not pride. And Pride in a > King > > whom you have all along been trying to equate to a Divine being (I > think > > amsha of Lord Vishnu or some such thing you said, while arguing > why King > > is divine and by extension Surya; if memory serves me right), may > not be > > a divine virtue but would certainly be tantamount to Ego. > > > > So please do not try to read something that is not there in the > message. > > It is always difficult to translate Sanskrit words in English > language > > due to limitation of words with different flavors in English. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > It is interesting to see that you do not think that pride and ego > > > are not one and the same thing. Please refer to your own message > at > > > > > > /message/11735 > </message/11735> > > > </message/11735 > </message/11735>> > > > > > > where you mentioned the following: > > > > > > "we find that Bhava Manjari does > > > attribute Abhimana (pride/ego) to Surya and so does Bhuvan > Deepak." > > > > > > How come pride/ego are synonymous in the case of Sun and not so > in > > > the case of Rahu? Is this fair? And, is this necessary? > > > > > > Isn't "abhimaana" a much milder word than "mada"? The > > > word "abhimaana" might have positive connotations, but the > > > word "mada" has absolutely no positive connotations. Pradeep may > > > not understand this but I am sure you do. > > > > > > Fair arguments never hurt me, sir, but this sort of arguments, > > > especially coming from you, certainly confound me. > > > > > > Can you quote any pramaana that says "mada" means only lust and > not > > > pride/ego/vanity etc? > > > > > > Regarding vidyaa/avidyaa and auspicious/inauspicious nature of > > > Mother: > > > > > > Vidyaavidya swaroopini: 402nd name of Mother > > > > > > Vidyaamchaavidyaamchayasthadvedobhayam saH, avidyayaamritu > > > teerthva,vidyayaamritamasnutha, vidyaina charamavrittiroopam > > > jnaanam, avidyaa bhedabhraantiroopam jnaanam" > > > > > > Avidya results in mrityu while vidyaa results in immortality and > > > moiksha. Vidyaa gives charama vrittiroopa jnaanam, while avidya > > > gives bhedabhraanthiroopa jnaanam. > > > > > > So, which one is auspicious? The direction which gives > > > immortality/moksha or the direction which results in > > > differentiation, delusion and death? > > > > > > Further in the explanation of the name "BhadramoorthiH" it is > stated > > > in Soubhagyabhaskaram that "brahmam tanmangalam". The true > > > auspiciousness is that after which no other inauspiciousness > occurs. > > > In a state which is dominated by desires, delusions etc > > > (mooladhara), this is impossible. This state of " absoluteness > > > auspiciousness " is possible only at the state of Brahman > > > (sahasraara). > > > > > > "theshaamcha lokaapibahuvidhaaH parasivaabhinnamahaashaktistu > > > sarvalokaatheethaa mahaakailaasaaparaajithaadi padapratipaadye > > > sarvalokotthare tisthathi.anyaapaam sivashakteenaam kathipayaanam > > > saattwikshareeraanyapi sattwaadhikyagunaantharaalpatwa yukthaani > na > > > punaH shuddhasattwaani.. > > > > > > "The form where Mother is one with shiva is the > highest/mahaashakti > > > form. All shiva+shakti roopas are sattwa roopas, but those lower > > > than this are a mixture of rajo and tamo gunas. > > > > > > I hope these suffice, or if you want, I can quote more. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > > intoxication > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > > > means > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, > one > > > of the > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the > dormant > > > or > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be > misinterpreted > > > if > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I > would > > > not > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to > Maa. > > > I have > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support > your > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > > > awakened > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way > my > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall > not > > > repeat > > > > it here. > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote > from > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. > Being > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate > it > > > for you. > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your > contention. I > > > would > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > > > improve > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions > with > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing > out > > > the > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu > combinations > > > in two > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have > done so > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > (greed), > > > moha > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > (jealousy) > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk > with > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > facets. As > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > towards > > > good > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > wisdom, > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > represented > > > by > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > power, is > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > correct/judicious > > > end > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > > > always > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > results, if > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to > all my > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > > purpose in > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > operating at > > > > > different > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > > please > > > > > do not > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > biography you > > > > > will > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > robust > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with > his > > > > > being > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > > expected > > > > > to > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja > dosha > > > how > > > > > does > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > analysis of > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > effects > > > of > > > > > grahas > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have > to be > > > seen > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > > > trying > > > > > to find > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > > forgotten > > > > > the > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > perspective > > > > > and let > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I > did > > > not > > > > > say > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > gave him > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > beneficent as > > > > > you > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's > chart > > > Surya > > > > > is > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > > > yoga. At > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may > have > > > to > > > > > think > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think > about > > > > > what it > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring > that it > > > > > became > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking > at > > > the > > > > > dass > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > away in > > > Jup- > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 > pm) > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 > pm) > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 > pm) > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 > am) > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd > lord from > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house > of > > > Venus > > > > > and > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord > from > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > > stronger > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, > can > > > give > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence > of > > > Saturn > > > > > on > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > sure > > > even > > > > > weak > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without > the > > > raja > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > wherever he > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > Mars in > > > 7th > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > commented > > > on the > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > planets > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > previous > > > mail), > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, > and > > > then > > > > > make > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > said. Did > > > you > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of > left > > > hand > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > following > > > dasa > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from > Moon > > > (AK) & > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is > with Sun > > > and > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > point to > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can > give > > > the > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, > was > > > only > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 > pm) > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 > am) > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 > am) > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 > am) > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > > > graha > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > > willed the > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet > in > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > exaltation > > > in > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > > already > > > > > been > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > > message > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > > > editor > > > > > of a > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > Yogas. > > > Every > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to > it, > > > at > > > > > the > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would > all > > > give > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > principles and > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > reference to > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > respected > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > anything that > > > > > does > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > would be > > > an > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > > course > > > > > be > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > > > strong > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > while weak > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > strong > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what > all > > > the > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > strong > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in > 5th > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and > Rahu > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > debilitated in > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam > shaneH > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement > in > > > the > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i > would > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > beneficial > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, > and > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > second > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according > to > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > results > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even > if > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > dhanurvidya > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne > in > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house > (I > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 > th > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south > and > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya > as > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as > a > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > promotions > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so > as that > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have > any > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > would > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > after all) > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead > of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so > but > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona > and > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to > be > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > home > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its > most > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > received > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > giving the > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so > why > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > protection > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------- > ----- > > > ---- > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.11.7/435 - > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- > ----- > > > - > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, I hope you do not want me to translate Aanana as head? I do not see you disputing Kundalini in Mulaadhara being called Triramani, GYaanini etc. though you think she is inauspicious there. May I know why? I hope you do not dispute Lord Krishna's opinion on GYana. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > Thanks for sharing the nice shloka with us. I am sorry that I had > indeed overlooked responding to it. In this regard, I have already > given my explanation of what's auspicious and what's not, based on > Soubhagya Bhaskaram. > > Can you please explain to me how you understand the > phrase "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä". > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same place, > and if > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments are > acceptable. > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support of your argument > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I sent > you. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head come...in > the > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other koota > defined > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you imply that > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology mappings > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple principle in > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless you are > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to confuse > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended that "bisa > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at Mooladhara > > > also they would have put it immediately after "mooladharaika > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python at > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at sahasraara. > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni tattwatmika at > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only from > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is ignited only > when > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a group of > > > Panchadhasha > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the vacha. > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect the > throat > > > and not > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her principal > abode > > > is > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if you want > to > > > distort > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are free to > do > > > so. I > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja is most > dear > > > to > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the > reference). > > > It > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini means of > the > > > coiled > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly does not > mean > > > what > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala Tantra. Do > you > > > think > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > as > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as vagbhava > beeja > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the yamalas, i > am > > > sure > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava > koota...it's > > > the > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of the > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave > tatratya > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is the > > > climactic > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, let me > quote > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. maa > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the > kundalini). > > > don't > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. It's > time > > > for > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > (greed), > > > > > moha > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > (jealousy) > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk > with > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > correct > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > facets. > > > As > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > towards > > > good > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > wisdom, > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > represented by > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > power, > > > is > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > correct/judicious > > > end > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very > very > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I > also > > > always > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > results, > > > if > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer > to all > > > my > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing > an > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration > and > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > > purpose > > > > > in > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > operating at > > > > > > different > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. > So > > > > > please > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > biography > > > you > > > > > > will > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > robust > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms > with his > > > > > > being > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I > was > > > > > expected > > > > > > to > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja > dosha > > > > > how > > > > > > does > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring > our > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > analysis > > > of > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > > > effects > > > > > of > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have > to be > > > > > seen > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but > only > > > trying > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > the > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > > perspective > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, > I did > > > > > not > > > > > > say > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > gave > > > him > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > beneficent > > > > > as > > > > > > you > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did > its > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's > chart > > > > > Surya > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful > Raj > > > yoga. > > > > > At > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may > > > have to > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think > > > about > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring > that > > > it > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > looking at > > > the > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > away > > > in > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 > pm) > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 > am) > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd > lord > > > from > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > house of > > > > > Venus > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord > from > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations > are > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, > can > > > give > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > influence of > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > sure > > > even > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but > without the > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > wherever > > > he > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > Mars > > > in > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > commented > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > > > planets > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > previous > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, > and > > > then > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > said. > > > Did > > > > > you > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma > of > > > left > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > following > > > dasa > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from > Moon > > > (AK) > > > > > & > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is > with > > > Sun > > > > > and > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > point > > > to > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu > can > > > give > > > > > the > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at > all, was > > > only > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 > pm) > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 > am) > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > (11:08:26 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of > the > > > graha > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > > willed > > > > > the > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > planet in > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > > exaltation > > > > > in > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > > already > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus > in > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through > my > > > > > message > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he > was > > > editor > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > Yogas. > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed > to > > > it, at > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would > all > > > give > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > (barring > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > principles > > > and > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > reference > > > to > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > respected > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > anything > > > that > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > would > > > be an > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would > of > > > > > course > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman > that > > > strong > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > while > > > weak > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > > > strong > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to > what > > > all the > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > strong > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars > in 5th > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) > and > > > Rahu > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > debilitated > > > in > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > placement in > > > the > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i > > > would > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > shubha > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > nature > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > dhanurvidya > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > borne in > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > death, > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of > the > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > promotions > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so > as > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > guessed > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > after > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead > of > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > home > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > popularly > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > giving > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > protection > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------- > ----- > > > ---- > > > > > -- > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------- > ----- > > > --- > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - > > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------- > ---- > > > > > -- > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. 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Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Dear Prabodh, I can understand why you find it difficult to see ego in the speeches that you quoted. That precisely is why I said that it is better not to bring personalities in discussions on astrology, especially those whom one may revere. It is not easy to be dispassionate about their actions or speech. If a King proclaiming his virtues himself is not ego then pray what is? It is an accepted practice that one does not broadcast one's virtue oneself. I think you will understand the source of the following. @tavan! @v pué;ae yt! £ jaya£ATma àja£#it h, ivàa> àa÷s! twa c£@tdœ yae -taR sa Sm&t£A¼na. 9£45 9.45. He only is a perfect man who consists (of three persons united), his wife, himself, and his offspring; thus (says the Veda), and (learned) Brahmanas propound this (maxim) likewise, 'The husband is declared to be one with the wife.' And though as you have quoted Lord Rama saying " I will not mind any affliction in abandoning my wife for the good of my subjects". and called it Vedic Dharma. Let me quote Manusmriti on when a King should give up his wife. "Aapdw¡ xn< r]edœ daran! r]edœ xnErœ Aip, AaTman< stt< r]edœ darErœ Aip xnErœ Aip." 7£213 7.213. For times of need let him preserve his wealth; at the expense of his wealth let him preserve his wife; let him at all events preserve himself even by (giving up) his wife and his wealth. So do you think that what was said was more of a boast or otherwise? About the conduct of Kings Manusmriti says: sMmanadœ äaü[ae inTym! %iÖjet iv;adœ #v, Am&tSy£#v c£Aka'œ]edœ AvmanSy svRda. 2£162 venae ivnòae Aivnyat! £ n÷;z! c£@v paiwRv>, suda> pEjvnz! c£@v sumuoae inimrœ @v c. 7£41 7.41. Through a want of humility Vena perished, likewise king Nahusha, Sudas, the son of Pigavana, Sumukha, and Nemi. I am sure you recognize names of many Vedic Kings there. Do you think Parashara was unaware of this and so he must have meant what you imply? Think again. It is easy to swear by one sage and think his words meant what we want them to mean and it may be entirely different what he in fact meant to convey. Endless debate on what is Mada is possible but Koshas, Higher Sanskrit Grammar by M.R. Bhat and other sources do indicate that Mada is primarily intoxication state, the reasons being variable. I think it is well to remember that rahu delivers results based on the graha conjunct or the lord of the Bhava occupied or 7th from itself and even those of planets aspecting it ( by extension). No wonder that rahu occupying house of Mars in 5th can cause problems in begetting progeny. If as you think Rahu who is Mada and that it means Pride then why Rahu in 5th should create problems in the house of progeny. It should give more progeny and with ease as the indications will be that of the jataka having pride on account of multiple progeny. Though for the life of me I do not understand why the combination given by you indicates that rahu is Pride. And that, that is the reason for the person not having Progeny or having difficulty in getting progeny. I do not find again, that Parashara is referring to Rahu only being in the 5th or as you say Rahu alone in the example given by you. He on the other hand does say that rahu has to be in a) 5th house and B) in the rasi of Mars or aspected by Mars, for problems in begetting progeny. Or have I not been able to understand what you are diriving at when you say Parashara giving independent indications of rahu in the example given? Chandrashekhar. Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > Dear Chandrashekhar Ji namste > > >Most of the > > speeches that you quote, if read with due detachment and ignoring > the > > personalities making them, would sound most egoist speeches to all > and > > sundry. I know saying this would raise > > tempers on the list but truth must prevail. > > Exactly. Truth must prevail. Why a passionate speech by a vedic king > should be treated as expression of Ego? If this is ego then every > thing by a king towards his subjects will be ego. > Ofcourse, I am nobody to object your views about that but it would be > interesting to find out what excatly you considered as egoist in > those speeches. > > > But one can go on arguing on this aspect to no end and bringing in > the > > ideal king as an example of King and conjecturing the Parashara > meant > > that King, while good for argument's sake may not be the right way > to > > look at astrological principles. > > I wanted to say that in a Vedic context, King means who takes pride > in the welfare of the subjects and will not have absolute power like > in western philosophy. Such vedic king may be ideal or may not be > ideal but what vedic scriptures say must be kept in mind. If we > believe that Parashara is vedic Jyotish Pravartak then there is no > question about what he had in mind when he said about Surya being > King. Terms which are Vedic should be treated on the Vedic context. > It does not matter as to how many kings were cruel towards subjects > in Vedic times what matters is that how scriptures describe the > king.What are his duties and what should be his authority and how he > should excercise it? That is why it essential to get in to what Vedas > and Manu says about king's duties. If you feel that I am > unnecessarily getting this point, I respectfully request you to > please think on this. > > > Do you think Mada does not mean intoxication or state of > intoxication in > > Sanskrit? > > Mada does mean Intoxication but point is that it as well means Pride! > Why to forget this? If Kalyan Verma says that Rahu is associated with > Mada then all meanings of Mada will be associated with Rahu. That > will include being intoxicated and as well being into state of Pride. > Since rahu as well is understood as 'limitless' so naturally pride > will be limitless and hence will be Ego. > > There is no doubt that Rahu gives the results like Shani or the lord > of the house occupied by him but this possibly we apply more, when we > are into timing of events. Otherwise why Parashara has said few > things only related to Rahu? Like he says that 5th house Rahu when > aspected by Mars or in the houses of Mars then the native will have > problems in the progeny. He could have simply said in one line that > Rahu should be Always treated as lord of the house occupied by him or > like Shani and that would have ended the references of Rahu. But > parashara clearly gives the independent references of Rahu. > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > Prabodh Vekhande > Jai Jai Shankar > Har Har Shankar > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Prabodh, > > > > You are not wrong when you say that "So in a Vedic Jyotish way the > Sun > > in strength will have PRIDE in being ideal king' for his subjects > (other > > Grahas)." But if the King is doing what is only his duty as per the > > Vedic Dharma, then pride in such context will be Ego. Most of the > > speeches that you quote, if read with due detachment and ignoring > the > > personalities making them, would sound most egoist speeches to all > and > > sundry. I know saying this would raise > > tempers on the list but truth must prevail. > > > > But one can go on arguing on this aspect to no end and bringing in > the > > ideal king as an example of King and conjecturing the Parashara > meant > > that King, while good for argument's sake may not be the right way > to > > look at astrological principles. The first pitfall would be that > though > > it is fashionable these days to say that all Kings of Vedic times > acted > > as they should the fact remains that Puranas and Vedas are replete > with > > stories of Kings who were very cruel t their subjects and harassed > those > > performing vedic Rituals. When this is pointed out tempers flare > which > > is a sure beginning of a rational discussion on the principles of > > astrology going awry. > > > > That is why it is better to steer clear of the scriptures when > > discussing astrology, specially on a public list, as the scriptures > are > > subject to different interpretations. > > > > Do you think Mada does not mean intoxication or state of > intoxication in > > Sanskrit? I am sure that Unmaada is one of the five arrows of > Madana. > > And that is Mada represented by Rahu. That is what flows through > the > > temporal glands of a bull elephant and then the bull elephant > becomes > > uncontrollable like being intoxicated. > > > > Again if you happen to refer to kosha you will find synonyms for > the > > five types of pride to be Garva, Abhimaana, Ahankara, Maana etc. > While > > in English language Pride has certain connotation, to find exact > > synonyms to Sanskrit words is always difficult. > > > > Letting apart these discussions which will more often mislead than > solve > > anything, let us at least agree that the sage does say that Rahu > and > > Ketu behave as the lords of the house occupied by them or the lord > of a > > house that they conjoin. > > > > If we are agreed on this then think why should Rahu, or Ketu for > that > > matter, who can not deliver own results but has to depend on other > > planets to express itself would, by itself and devoid of other > graha > > combination; be endowed with the quality of Ego by the writer. More > so > > why when Rahu when alone is said to give results of Shani (Manda > Sama > > Rahu..) as Shani is certainly not connected with ego by any stretch > of > > imagination. > > > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namste > > > > > > It was indeed a great plesure to read your mails regarding > > > interpretations of the astrological text and more specially how > > > Sanskrit language words can mislead at times. Now I have some > doubts. > > > > > > I think Pride means Self-respect and Ego means Inflated or False > > > Pride. Parashara has attributed the Sun to being Raja or King. In > the > > > vedic philosophy we see that Raja was suppose to take care of the > > > welfare of his subjects. In the Chandogya Upanishad the king > > > Ashvapati describes his kingdom and his subjects as: "In my > kingdom > > > there is no thief,no coward,nor amiser,no drunked,nor is there one > > > who has not taken the vow of worship of the'Fire', no idots, nor > men > > > of loose character.Where could therefore be here women without > > > morals?"(Chandogya 5-11). We as well see similar references in > > > Ramayana regarding RamaRajya. Rama says: I will forsake > everything, > > > affection,compassion,happiness,even my beloved wife Janaki, for > the > > > sake of the welfare of my subjects. I will not mind any > affliction in > > > abondoning my wife for the good of my subjects". We find many such > > > references in RigVeda and Atherva veda as well. The great epic of > > > VedaVyasa as well gives similar attributes to King.Such was the > > > concept of the ideal of the institution of kingship, which every > > > Vedic king took PRIDE in realising. > > > > > > In the pasasge of Time there came the western counterpart for > Vedic > > > Kings. In the west the mediaeval thinkers invested divine > inheritance > > > on the king who was considered to be the representative of God. > The > > > king having received his authority to rule by divine right was not > > > answerable to the people and therefore was an absolute in his own > > > right.The people had no right to rebel against the king or demand > his > > > dethronement. The predominant thought behind that concept was to > > > bestow sovereign and absolute powers on the king. This naturally > made > > > Kings to have 'inflated pride' or EGO. This western mediaeval > concept > > > of king had great influence in Mediaeval indian kings as well. > > > > > > In Bharat, however, political thinkers never advocated or offered > any > > > abolute power and authority to the king. Kingship was always > regared > > > as subservient to the will and dependent upon the sanction of the > > > people and was alwyas answerable to them. So there was no concept > > > of 'Inflated or False Pride' in the Vedic King. The king being > fully > > > aware that all his authority and power were derived from his > > > subjects would try to look to their welfare. > > > > > > So in a Vedic Jyotish way the Sun in strength will have PRIDE in > > > being ideal 'king' for his subjects(other Grahas). Same, if seen > in > > > Western way can mean the Sun will have EGO. > > > > > > Moreover, we see that Western(foreign) cocept of Absolute power > with > > > the King is exactly opposite that of Vedic concept of King. So in > a > > > vedic way of thinking what is wrong in attributting Rahu to > foreign > > > concept of inflated & false Pride or EGO.? > > > > > > Finally, Mada does mean Pride in sanskrit. When attributed to > Rahu, > > > will naturally have the element of falsehood/deceit associated > with > > > pride and hence may lead to EGO. Am I wrong? > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande > > > Jai Jai Shankar > > > Har Har Shankar > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > > intoxication > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > > > means > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, > one of > > > the > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the > dormant or > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be > misinterpreted > > > if > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I > would > > > not > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to > Maa. I > > > have > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support > your > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > awakened > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way > my > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall > not > > > repeat > > > > it here. > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote > from > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. > Being > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate > it for > > > you. > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. > I > > > would > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > > > improve > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions > with > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing > out > > > the > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu > combinations in > > > two > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done > so > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > (greed), > > > moha > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > facets. As > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > towards good > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > wisdom, > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > represented by > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > power, is > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > correct/judicious end > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > always > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > results, if > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to > all my > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > purpose > > > in > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating > at > > > > > different > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > > please > > > > > do not > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > biography you > > > > > will > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > robust > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with > his > > > > > being > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > > expected > > > > > to > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja > dosha > > > how > > > > > does > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > analysis of > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > effects > > > of > > > > > grahas > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to > be > > > seen > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > trying > > > > > to find > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > > forgotten > > > > > the > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > perspective > > > > > and let > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I > did > > > not > > > > > say > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > gave him > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > beneficent > > > as > > > > > you > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > > > Surya > > > > > is > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > > > yoga. At > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may > have to > > > > > think > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think > about > > > > > what it > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring > that it > > > > > became > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking > at the > > > > > dass > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > away in > > > Jup- > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 > pm) > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 > pm) > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord > from > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > > > Venus > > > > > and > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord > from > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > > stronger > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, > can give > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > > > Saturn > > > > > on > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > sure even > > > > > weak > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without > the > > > raja > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > wherever he > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > Mars in > > > 7th > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > commented on > > > the > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > planets > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > > > mail), > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, > and then > > > > > make > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. > Did > > > you > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of > left > > > hand > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > following dasa > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from > Moon > > > (AK) & > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with > Sun > > > and > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > point to > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can > give > > > the > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, > was > > > only > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 > am) > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 > am) > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > graha > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > willed > > > the > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > exaltation > > > in > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > already > > > > > been > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > > message > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > editor > > > > > of a > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > Yogas. > > > Every > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to > it, at > > > > > the > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would > all give > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles > and > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > reference to > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > respected > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything > that > > > > > does > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > would be > > > an > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > > course > > > > > be > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > > > strong > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while > weak > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > strong > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what > all > > > the > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > strong > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in > 5th > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and > Rahu > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > debilitated in > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam > shaneH > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement > in the > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i > would > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, > and > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > second > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according > to > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > results > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne > in mind > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 > th > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south > and > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala > in > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya > as > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > promotions and > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as > that > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have > any > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > would > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > home that > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > called > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its > most > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > received > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving > the > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so > why > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > protection > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- > ----- > > > --- > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- > ----- > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, "agnim swaadhistaanagataagnitejomayeem kundalineemichhdhwam. icchaadandenaahatyothapayadhwam....athaeva rodanaavasthasaahityaat. kulakundaadutthaapanasyotpatti roopatwaaccha sadya utpannaa kumaareetyuchyathe. yoshittaruNee kaarunyalakshaNaa sooryeNaahtaaduparibhaage saahityaatpativrataa. patim brahmarandhrastham kaameshwaram vratayati bhunkte payovratam braahmaNasyethi prayogaaccha evam koumaarataaruNya sambhogairarishtam shubham peeyusha varshaNaroopam anyadapi yatkinchitsaakriyathe karoti tatsarvam agnisswaadhisthaanagatho anuvedhati saadhayathi. agnijwalanenaiva chandramandalam dravateethi bhavaH" I am sure you can translate this and understand that Kundalini has the ability to do "shubham" only when it matures (utpatti avastha) and unites with Shiva causing the amrita varsham, through the medium of agni. Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from scriptures that you > have that state that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious. That will help > enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja and other Kootas. > > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > Please tell me in the body divisions given according to kootas, is > > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? Let's get this straight > > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. Please do not worry > > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, and can provide > > them by the ton:--)) > > > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean the portion upto neck > > or the portion upto forehead? > > > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same place, > > and if > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments are > > acceptable. > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support of your argument > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I sent > > you. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head come...in > > the > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other koota > > defined > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you imply that > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology mappings > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple principle in > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless you are > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to confuse > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended that "bisa > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at Mooladhara > > > > also they would have put it immediately after "mooladharaika > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python at > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at sahasraara. > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni tattwatmika at > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only from > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is ignited only > > when > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a group of > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the vacha. > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect the > > throat > > > > and not > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her principal > > abode > > > > is > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if you want > > to > > > > distort > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are free to > > do > > > > so. I > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja is most > > dear > > > > to > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the > > reference). > > > > It > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini means of > > the > > > > coiled > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly does not > > mean > > > > what > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala Tantra. Do > > you > > > > think > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > as > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as vagbhava > > beeja > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the yamalas, i > > am > > > > sure > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava > > koota...it's > > > > the > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of the > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave > > tatratya > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is the > > > > climactic > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, let me > > quote > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. maa > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the > > kundalini). > > > > don't > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. It's > > time > > > > for > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <% 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > > (greed), > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk > > with > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > > correct > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > > facets. > > > > As > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > > towards > > > > good > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > > wisdom, > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > > represented by > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > > power, > > > > is > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > correct/judicious > > > > end > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very > > very > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I > > also > > > > always > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > > results, > > > > if > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer > > to all > > > > my > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing > > an > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration > > and > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > > > purpose > > > > > > in > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > operating at > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. > > So > > > > > > please > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > biography > > > > you > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > > robust > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms > > with his > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I > > was > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja > > dosha > > > > > > how > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring > > our > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > > analysis > > > > of > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > > > > effects > > > > > > of > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have > > to be > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but > > only > > > > trying > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > > > perspective > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, > > I did > > > > > > not > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > > gave > > > > him > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > > beneficent > > > > > > as > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did > > its > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's > > chart > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful > > Raj > > > > yoga. > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may > > > > have to > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think > > > > about > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring > > that > > > > it > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > > looking at > > > > the > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > > away > > > > in > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 > > pm) > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 > > am) > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd > > lord > > > > from > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > > house of > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord > > from > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations > > are > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, > > can > > > > give > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > > influence of > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > > sure > > > > even > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but > > without the > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > wherever > > > > he > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > > Mars > > > > in > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > commented > > > > on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > > > > planets > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > > previous > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, > > and > > > > then > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > > said. > > > > Did > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma > > of > > > > left > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > following > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from > > Moon > > > > (AK) > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is > > with > > > > Sun > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > > point > > > > to > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu > > can > > > > give > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at > > all, was > > > > only > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 > > pm) > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 > > am) > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > (11:08:26 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of > > the > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > > > willed > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > > planet in > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > > > exaltation > > > > > > in > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > > > already > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus > > in > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through > > my > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he > > was > > > > editor > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > > Yogas. > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed > > to > > > > it, at > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would > > all > > > > give > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > > (barring > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > principles > > > > and > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > reference > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > > respected > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > > anything > > > > that > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > > would > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would > > of > > > > > > course > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman > > that > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > > while > > > > weak > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > > > > strong > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to > > what > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > > strong > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars > > in 5th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn (9H) > > and > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > debilitated > > > > in > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > > placement in > > > > the > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i > > > > would > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > > shubha > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > > nature > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > dhanurvidya > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > > borne in > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > > death, > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of > > the > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > promotions > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so > > as > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > > guessed > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > > after > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead > > of > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > > home > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > > popularly > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > > giving > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------- ---- > > ----- > > > > ---- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------- ---- > > ----- > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - > > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. 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Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, I agree with you. However, if it's no problem, I would be thankful if you can give all the meanings of "mada" as given in monier- williams, apte dictionaries etc? Did you face similar problems when you translated the word "abhimaana" as pride/ego? regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > The pramana to ancient text is indeed difficult to give, as there are no > Sanskrit to English dictionaries that were written by the ancient sages. > > You may, however, like to refer to Monier William dictionary that > translates Sanskrit words to English as we are talking about English > words. I would, personally, refer to Sanskrit Kosha of Apte in hard > copy. Higher Sanskrit Grammar of M.R. Kale is another good source. The > meaning of Mada is made very clear there. > > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > Please translate the word "mada" also in all its nuances, and see > > why they all can not be applied to Rahu. Why close your mind to > > other meanings? > > > > I also notice that you have not provided any pramana that says > > that "mada" means only lust/intoxication and not pride/vanity/ego. I > > am still waiting for it. > > > > >From what Saravali says, I perceive "ego" to be the basic quality of > > all those born. it perpetuates survival and rebirth. If you > > disagree, can you provide a pramaana that says only a king can have > > ego and others can not. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > I was trying to translate Abhimana and not pride. And Pride in a > > King > > > whom you have all along been trying to equate to a Divine being (I > > think > > > amsha of Lord Vishnu or some such thing you said, while arguing > > why King > > > is divine and by extension Surya; if memory serves me right), may > > not be > > > a divine virtue but would certainly be tantamount to Ego. > > > > > > So please do not try to read something that is not there in the > > message. > > > It is always difficult to translate Sanskrit words in English > > language > > > due to limitation of words with different flavors in English. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > It is interesting to see that you do not think that pride and ego > > > > are not one and the same thing. Please refer to your own message > > at > > > > > > > > /message/11735 > > </message/11735> > > > > </message/11735 > > </message/11735>> > > > > > > > > where you mentioned the following: > > > > > > > > "we find that Bhava Manjari does > > > > attribute Abhimana (pride/ego) to Surya and so does Bhuvan > > Deepak." > > > > > > > > How come pride/ego are synonymous in the case of Sun and not so > > in > > > > the case of Rahu? Is this fair? And, is this necessary? > > > > > > > > Isn't "abhimaana" a much milder word than "mada"? The > > > > word "abhimaana" might have positive connotations, but the > > > > word "mada" has absolutely no positive connotations. Pradeep may > > > > not understand this but I am sure you do. > > > > > > > > Fair arguments never hurt me, sir, but this sort of arguments, > > > > especially coming from you, certainly confound me. > > > > > > > > Can you quote any pramaana that says "mada" means only lust and > > not > > > > pride/ego/vanity etc? > > > > > > > > Regarding vidyaa/avidyaa and auspicious/inauspicious nature of > > > > Mother: > > > > > > > > Vidyaavidya swaroopini: 402nd name of Mother > > > > > > > > Vidyaamchaavidyaamchayasthadvedobhayam saH, avidyayaamritu > > > > teerthva,vidyayaamritamasnutha, vidyaina charamavrittiroopam > > > > jnaanam, avidyaa bhedabhraantiroopam jnaanam" > > > > > > > > Avidya results in mrityu while vidyaa results in immortality and > > > > moiksha. Vidyaa gives charama vrittiroopa jnaanam, while avidya > > > > gives bhedabhraanthiroopa jnaanam. > > > > > > > > So, which one is auspicious? The direction which gives > > > > immortality/moksha or the direction which results in > > > > differentiation, delusion and death? > > > > > > > > Further in the explanation of the name "BhadramoorthiH" it is > > stated > > > > in Soubhagyabhaskaram that "brahmam tanmangalam". The true > > > > auspiciousness is that after which no other inauspiciousness > > occurs. > > > > In a state which is dominated by desires, delusions etc > > > > (mooladhara), this is impossible. This state of " absoluteness > > > > auspiciousness " is possible only at the state of Brahman > > > > (sahasraara). > > > > > > > > "theshaamcha lokaapibahuvidhaaH parasivaabhinnamahaashaktistu > > > > sarvalokaatheethaa mahaakailaasaaparaajithaadi padapratipaadye > > > > sarvalokotthare tisthathi.anyaapaam sivashakteenaam kathipayaanam > > > > saattwikshareeraanyapi sattwaadhikyagunaantharaalpatwa yukthaani > > na > > > > punaH shuddhasattwaani.. > > > > > > > > "The form where Mother is one with shiva is the > > highest/mahaashakti > > > > form. All shiva+shakti roopas are sattwa roopas, but those lower > > > > than this are a mixture of rajo and tamo gunas. > > > > > > > > I hope these suffice, or if you want, I can quote more. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > > > intoxication > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > > > > means > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, > > one > > > > of the > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the > > dormant > > > > or > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be > > misinterpreted > > > > if > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I > > would > > > > not > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to > > Maa. > > > > I have > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support > > your > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > > > > awakened > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way > > my > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall > > not > > > > repeat > > > > > it here. > > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote > > from > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. > > Being > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate > > it > > > > for you. > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your > > contention. I > > > > would > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > > > > improve > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions > > with > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing > > out > > > > the > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu > > combinations > > > > in two > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have > > done so > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > > (greed), > > > > moha > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > (jealousy) > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk > > with > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > > facets. As > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > > towards > > > > good > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > > wisdom, > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > represented > > > > by > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > > power, is > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > correct/judicious > > > > end > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > > > > always > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > > results, if > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to > > all my > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > > > purpose in > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > operating at > > > > > > different > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > > > please > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > biography you > > > > > > will > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > > robust > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with > > his > > > > > > being > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > > > expected > > > > > > to > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja > > dosha > > > > how > > > > > > does > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > > analysis of > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > > effects > > > > of > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have > > to be > > > > seen > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > > > > trying > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > > > forgotten > > > > > > the > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > perspective > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I > > did > > > > not > > > > > > say > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > > gave him > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > > beneficent as > > > > > > you > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's > > chart > > > > Surya > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > > > > yoga. At > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may > > have > > > > to > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think > > about > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring > > that it > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking > > at > > > > the > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > > away in > > > > Jup- > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 > > pm) > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 > > pm) > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 > > pm) > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 > > am) > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd > > lord from > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house > > of > > > > Venus > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord > > from > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, > > can > > > > give > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence > > of > > > > Saturn > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > > sure > > > > even > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without > > the > > > > raja > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > wherever he > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > > Mars in > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > commented > > > > on the > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > > planets > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > > previous > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, > > and > > > > then > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > > said. Did > > > > you > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of > > left > > > > hand > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > following > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from > > Moon > > > > (AK) & > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is > > with Sun > > > > and > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > > point to > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can > > give > > > > the > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, > > was > > > > only > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 > > pm) > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 > > am) > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 > > am) > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 > > am) > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > > > > graha > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > > > willed the > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet > > in > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > exaltation > > > > in > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > > > already > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > > > message > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > > > > editor > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > > Yogas. > > > > Every > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to > > it, > > > > at > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would > > all > > > > give > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > principles and > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > reference to > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > > respected > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > > anything that > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > > would be > > > > an > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > > > course > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > > > > strong > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > > while weak > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > > strong > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what > > all > > > > the > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > > strong > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in > > 5th > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and > > Rahu > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > debilitated in > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam > > shaneH > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement > > in > > > > the > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i > > would > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > beneficial > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > dhanurvidya > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne > > in > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house > > (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 > > th > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > promotions > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so > > as that > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > > guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > > after all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead > > of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > > home > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > > giving the > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so > > why > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > > protection > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------- ---- > > ----- > > > > ---- > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------- ---- > > ----- > > > > - > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- ---- > > -- > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is radically > > > > easier > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- -- > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > > Date: > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling > > worldwide > > > > with voicemail http://uk.messenger. > > <http://uk.messenger.> > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide > > with voicemail http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------- ------- > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 > > > > > _________ > Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namste > If a King proclaiming his virtues himself is not ego then pray what is? > It is an accepted practice that one does not broadcast one's virtue > oneself. King proclaiming his virtues himself can not be an example of Ego specially it the king is speaking truth. At most it can be treated as expression of Pride but certainly not Ego. In this way even Krishna will be clubed as Egoist as he has proclaim so many things about himself in Geeta. > I am sure you recognize names of many Vedic Kings there. Do you think > Parashara was unaware of this and so he must have meant what you imply? > I do but the point is not that. As I said earlier that scriptures say that King should take Pride in welfare of his subjects and should not considered as absolute power. Some kings at vedic times have acted otherwise but that is not the point. Moreover there is no point in making conjuctures as what parashara thought and whether he was aware of the Kings not following scriptures,before writting Jyotish Grantha. In my humble opinion we can only comment on meanings of Vedic terms like 'King' in vedic context. My example of rama was to highlight the fact that there were kings who were ready to do anything for the welfare of their subjects. King's dharma was that only and Rama followed it. WIll write about Rahu again once this is resoived! Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. Prabodh Vekhande Jai Jai Shankar Har Har Shankar , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Prabodh, > > I can understand why you find it difficult to see ego in the speeches > that you quoted. That precisely is why I said that it is better not to > bring personalities in discussions on astrology, especially those whom > one may revere. It is not easy to be dispassionate about their actions > or speech. > > If a King proclaiming his virtues himself is not ego then pray what is? > It is an accepted practice that one does not broadcast one's virtue > oneself. I think you will understand the source of the following. > @tavan! @v pué;ae yt! £ jaya£ATma àja£#it h, ivàa> àa÷s! twa c£@tdœ yae > -taR sa Sm&t£A¼na. 9£45 > 9.45. He only is a perfect man who consists (of three persons united), > his wife, himself, and his offspring; thus (says the Veda), and > (learned) Brahmanas propound this (maxim) likewise, 'The husband is > declared to be one with the wife.' > > And though as you have quoted Lord Rama saying " I will not mind any > affliction in abandoning my wife for the good of my subjects". and > called it Vedic Dharma. Let me quote Manusmriti on when a King should > give up his wife. > "Aapdw¡ xn< r]edœ daran! r]edœ xnErœ Aip, AaTman< stt< r]edœ darErœ Aip > xnErœ Aip." 7£213 > 7.213. > For times of need let him preserve his wealth; at the expense of his > wealth let him preserve his wife; let him at all events preserve himself > even by (giving up) his wife and his wealth. > > So do you think that what was said was more of a boast or otherwise? > > About the conduct of Kings Manusmriti says: > sMmanadœ äaü[ae inTym! %iÖjet iv;adœ #v, Am&tSy£#v c£Aka'œ]edœ AvmanSy > svRda. 2£162 > > venae ivnòae Aivnyat! £ n÷;z! c£@v paiwRv>, suda> pEjvnz! c£@v sumuoae > inimrœ @v c. 7£41 > 7.41. > Through a want of humility Vena perished, likewise king Nahusha, Sudas, > the son of Pigavana, Sumukha, and Nemi. > > I am sure you recognize names of many Vedic Kings there. Do you think > Parashara was unaware of this and so he must have meant what you imply? > > Think again. It is easy to swear by one sage and think his words meant > what we want them to mean and it may be entirely different what he in > fact meant to convey. > > Endless debate on what is Mada is possible but Koshas, Higher Sanskrit > Grammar by M.R. Bhat and other sources do indicate that Mada is > primarily intoxication state, the reasons being variable. I think it is > well to remember that rahu delivers results based on the graha conjunct > or the lord of the Bhava occupied or 7th from itself and even those of > planets aspecting it ( by extension). No wonder that rahu occupying > house of Mars in 5th can cause problems in begetting progeny. > > If as you think Rahu who is Mada and that it means Pride then why Rahu > in 5th should create problems in the house of progeny. It should give > more progeny and with ease as the indications will be that of the jataka > having pride on account of multiple progeny. Though for the life of me I > do not understand why the combination given by you indicates that rahu > is Pride. And that, that is the reason for the person not having Progeny > or having difficulty in getting progeny. > > I do not find again, that Parashara is referring to Rahu only being in > the 5th or as you say Rahu alone in the example given by you. He on the > other hand does say that rahu has to be in a) 5th house and B) in the > rasi of Mars or aspected by Mars, for problems in begetting progeny. Or > have I not been able to understand what you are diriving at when you say > Parashara giving independent indications of rahu in the example given? > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar Ji namste > > > > >Most of the > > > speeches that you quote, if read with due detachment and ignoring > > the > > > personalities making them, would sound most egoist speeches to all > > and > > > sundry. I know saying this would raise > > > tempers on the list but truth must prevail. > > > > Exactly. Truth must prevail. Why a passionate speech by a vedic king > > should be treated as expression of Ego? If this is ego then every > > thing by a king towards his subjects will be ego. > > Ofcourse, I am nobody to object your views about that but it would be > > interesting to find out what excatly you considered as egoist in > > those speeches. > > > > > But one can go on arguing on this aspect to no end and bringing in > > the > > > ideal king as an example of King and conjecturing the Parashara > > meant > > > that King, while good for argument's sake may not be the right way > > to > > > look at astrological principles. > > > > I wanted to say that in a Vedic context, King means who takes pride > > in the welfare of the subjects and will not have absolute power like > > in western philosophy. Such vedic king may be ideal or may not be > > ideal but what vedic scriptures say must be kept in mind. If we > > believe that Parashara is vedic Jyotish Pravartak then there is no > > question about what he had in mind when he said about Surya being > > King. Terms which are Vedic should be treated on the Vedic context. > > It does not matter as to how many kings were cruel towards subjects > > in Vedic times what matters is that how scriptures describe the > > king.What are his duties and what should be his authority and how he > > should excercise it? That is why it essential to get in to what Vedas > > and Manu says about king's duties. If you feel that I am > > unnecessarily getting this point, I respectfully request you to > > please think on this. > > > > > Do you think Mada does not mean intoxication or state of > > intoxication in > > > Sanskrit? > > > > Mada does mean Intoxication but point is that it as well means Pride! > > Why to forget this? If Kalyan Verma says that Rahu is associated with > > Mada then all meanings of Mada will be associated with Rahu. That > > will include being intoxicated and as well being into state of Pride. > > Since rahu as well is understood as 'limitless' so naturally pride > > will be limitless and hence will be Ego. > > > > There is no doubt that Rahu gives the results like Shani or the lord > > of the house occupied by him but this possibly we apply more, when we > > are into timing of events. Otherwise why Parashara has said few > > things only related to Rahu? Like he says that 5th house Rahu when > > aspected by Mars or in the houses of Mars then the native will have > > problems in the progeny. He could have simply said in one line that > > Rahu should be Always treated as lord of the house occupied by him or > > like Shani and that would have ended the references of Rahu. But > > parashara clearly gives the independent references of Rahu. > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > > > Prabodh Vekhande > > Jai Jai Shankar > > Har Har Shankar > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Prabodh, > > > > > > You are not wrong when you say that "So in a Vedic Jyotish way the > > Sun > > > in strength will have PRIDE in being ideal king' for his subjects > > (other > > > Grahas)." But if the King is doing what is only his duty as per the > > > Vedic Dharma, then pride in such context will be Ego. Most of the > > > speeches that you quote, if read with due detachment and ignoring > > the > > > personalities making them, would sound most egoist speeches to all > > and > > > sundry. I know saying this would raise > > > tempers on the list but truth must prevail. > > > > > > But one can go on arguing on this aspect to no end and bringing in > > the > > > ideal king as an example of King and conjecturing the Parashara > > meant > > > that King, while good for argument's sake may not be the right way > > to > > > look at astrological principles. The first pitfall would be that > > though > > > it is fashionable these days to say that all Kings of Vedic times > > acted > > > as they should the fact remains that Puranas and Vedas are replete > > with > > > stories of Kings who were very cruel t their subjects and harassed > > those > > > performing vedic Rituals. When this is pointed out tempers flare > > which > > > is a sure beginning of a rational discussion on the principles of > > > astrology going awry. > > > > > > That is why it is better to steer clear of the scriptures when > > > discussing astrology, specially on a public list, as the scriptures > > are > > > subject to different interpretations. > > > > > > Do you think Mada does not mean intoxication or state of > > intoxication in > > > Sanskrit? I am sure that Unmaada is one of the five arrows of > > Madana. > > > And that is Mada represented by Rahu. That is what flows through > > the > > > temporal glands of a bull elephant and then the bull elephant > > becomes > > > uncontrollable like being intoxicated. > > > > > > Again if you happen to refer to kosha you will find synonyms for > > the > > > five types of pride to be Garva, Abhimaana, Ahankara, Maana etc. > > While > > > in English language Pride has certain connotation, to find exact > > > synonyms to Sanskrit words is always difficult. > > > > > > Letting apart these discussions which will more often mislead than > > solve > > > anything, let us at least agree that the sage does say that Rahu > > and > > > Ketu behave as the lords of the house occupied by them or the lord > > of a > > > house that they conjoin. > > > > > > If we are agreed on this then think why should Rahu, or Ketu for > > that > > > matter, who can not deliver own results but has to depend on other > > > planets to express itself would, by itself and devoid of other > > graha > > > combination; be endowed with the quality of Ego by the writer. More > > so > > > why when Rahu when alone is said to give results of Shani (Manda > > Sama > > > Rahu..) as Shani is certainly not connected with ego by any stretch > > of > > > imagination. > > > > > > Take care, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namste > > > > > > > > It was indeed a great plesure to read your mails regarding > > > > interpretations of the astrological text and more specially how > > > > Sanskrit language words can mislead at times. Now I have some > > doubts. > > > > > > > > I think Pride means Self-respect and Ego means Inflated or False > > > > Pride. Parashara has attributed the Sun to being Raja or King. In > > the > > > > vedic philosophy we see that Raja was suppose to take care of the > > > > welfare of his subjects. In the Chandogya Upanishad the king > > > > Ashvapati describes his kingdom and his subjects as: "In my > > kingdom > > > > there is no thief,no coward,nor amiser,no drunked,nor is there one > > > > who has not taken the vow of worship of the'Fire', no idots, nor > > men > > > > of loose character.Where could therefore be here women without > > > > morals?"(Chandogya 5-11). We as well see similar references in > > > > Ramayana regarding RamaRajya. Rama says: I will forsake > > everything, > > > > affection,compassion,happiness,even my beloved wife Janaki, for > > the > > > > sake of the welfare of my subjects. I will not mind any > > affliction in > > > > abondoning my wife for the good of my subjects". We find many such > > > > references in RigVeda and Atherva veda as well. The great epic of > > > > VedaVyasa as well gives similar attributes to King.Such was the > > > > concept of the ideal of the institution of kingship, which every > > > > Vedic king took PRIDE in realising. > > > > > > > > In the pasasge of Time there came the western counterpart for > > Vedic > > > > Kings. In the west the mediaeval thinkers invested divine > > inheritance > > > > on the king who was considered to be the representative of God. > > The > > > > king having received his authority to rule by divine right was not > > > > answerable to the people and therefore was an absolute in his own > > > > right.The people had no right to rebel against the king or demand > > his > > > > dethronement. The predominant thought behind that concept was to > > > > bestow sovereign and absolute powers on the king. This naturally > > made > > > > Kings to have 'inflated pride' or EGO. This western mediaeval > > concept > > > > of king had great influence in Mediaeval indian kings as well. > > > > > > > > In Bharat, however, political thinkers never advocated or offered > > any > > > > abolute power and authority to the king. Kingship was always > > regared > > > > as subservient to the will and dependent upon the sanction of the > > > > people and was alwyas answerable to them. So there was no concept > > > > of 'Inflated or False Pride' in the Vedic King. The king being > > fully > > > > aware that all his authority and power were derived from his > > > > subjects would try to look to their welfare. > > > > > > > > So in a Vedic Jyotish way the Sun in strength will have PRIDE in > > > > being ideal 'king' for his subjects(other Grahas). Same, if seen > > in > > > > Western way can mean the Sun will have EGO. > > > > > > > > Moreover, we see that Western(foreign) cocept of Absolute power > > with > > > > the King is exactly opposite that of Vedic concept of King. So in > > a > > > > vedic way of thinking what is wrong in attributting Rahu to > > foreign > > > > concept of inflated & false Pride or EGO.? > > > > > > > > Finally, Mada does mean Pride in sanskrit. When attributed to > > Rahu, > > > > will naturally have the element of falsehood/deceit associated > > with > > > > pride and hence may lead to EGO. Am I wrong? > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. > > > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande > > > > Jai Jai Shankar > > > > Har Har Shankar > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > > > intoxication > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which > > > > means > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, > > one of > > > > the > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the > > dormant or > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be > > misinterpreted > > > > if > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I > > would > > > > not > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to > > Maa. I > > > > have > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support > > your > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > > awakened > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way > > my > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall > > not > > > > repeat > > > > > it here. > > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote > > from > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. > > Being > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate > > it for > > > > you. > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. > > I > > > > would > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can > > > > improve > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions > > with > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing > > out > > > > the > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu > > combinations in > > > > two > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done > > so > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > > (greed), > > > > moha > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > > facets. As > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > > towards good > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > > wisdom, > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > represented by > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > > power, is > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > correct/judicious end > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also > > always > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > > results, if > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to > > all my > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > purpose > > > > in > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating > > at > > > > > > different > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > > > please > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > biography you > > > > > > will > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > > robust > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with > > his > > > > > > being > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > > > expected > > > > > > to > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja > > dosha > > > > how > > > > > > does > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > > analysis of > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > > effects > > > > of > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to > > be > > > > seen > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only > > trying > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > > > forgotten > > > > > > the > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > perspective > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I > > did > > > > not > > > > > > say > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > > gave him > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > beneficent > > > > as > > > > > > you > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > > > > Surya > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj > > > > yoga. At > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may > > have to > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think > > about > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring > > that it > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking > > at the > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > > away in > > > > Jup- > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 > > pm) > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 > > pm) > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord > > from > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > > > > Venus > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord > > from > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, > > can give > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > > > > Saturn > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > > sure even > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without > > the > > > > raja > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > wherever he > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > > Mars in > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > commented on > > > > the > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > > planets > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, > > and then > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. > > Did > > > > you > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of > > left > > > > hand > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > following dasa > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from > > Moon > > > > (AK) & > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with > > Sun > > > > and > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > > point to > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can > > give > > > > the > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, > > was > > > > only > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 > > am) > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 > > am) > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the > > graha > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > willed > > > > the > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > exaltation > > > > in > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > already > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > > > message > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was > > editor > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > > Yogas. > > > > Every > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to > > it, at > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would > > all give > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles > > and > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > reference to > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > > respected > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything > > that > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > > would be > > > > an > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > > > course > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that > > > > strong > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while > > weak > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > > strong > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what > > all > > > > the > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > > strong > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in > > 5th > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and > > Rahu > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > debilitated in > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam > > shaneH > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement > > in the > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i > > would > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne > > in mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 > > th > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > promotions and > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > > guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > > home that > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so > > why > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > > protection > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ ---- > > ----- > > > > --- > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------- ---- > > ----- > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- ---- > > - > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. 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Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, When we refer to Ravana as "Dashaanana" does that mean he had only 10 faces and not 10 heads? What about other synonyms for Ravana like dashakantha, dasagreeva etc? Or when we talk of "sahasra seersha purushaH " are we talking only of heads without faces? :--)) According to me, "triramani" suggests the Beautiful One who is embodiment of /resides in/revels in....gunatraya, roopatraya, avasthaatraya, maatritraya, bhoopuratraya, mandalatraya, konatraya, rekhaatraya, mantratraya, kootatraya, triputi etc. I hope you realize that here we are talking of one who has sthoola/sookshma/karana sareeras as well as trigunas. Please contrast this to "sphutashivashaktisamaagama beejankuraroopiNi paraashaktiH aNutharasookshmaanuttaravimarshalipi lakshyavigrahaabhaathi"-which means that union of shiva-shakti is like beejankura. At this juncture Paraashakti is so subtle as not to be perceived at all. She's like akasha and exists only as akshara/mantra swaroopini. Vagbhava koota! I refer you to the "oordhwamoolamadhaH shaakham ashwatham" example I quoted earlier, in this respect. What's is seen at the lower level is physical/gunamayi (sthoola/gross) manifestation, while at the higher level it's the unseen roots/beeja (sookshma/subtle) manifestation. Both belong to the same tree, but there is a difference in manifestation. Mother is definitely "gyaanini" at all times. But at Mooladhara the gyaana is only inert/potential. Suppose you have a great life- changing book (kundalini) in your house (body), shut up in a room (mooladhara). You do have the book, the potential to actuate yourself, but unless you open the room, read the book, allow that great wisdom to touch you and transform you, do you reap any benefit from its presence? Now, can I please have your understanding of "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä"? Perhaps we are unfairly imposing on others' time. Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > I hope you do not want me to translate Aanana as head? I do not see you > disputing Kundalini in Mulaadhara being called Triramani, GYaanini etc. > though you think she is inauspicious there. May I know why? I hope you > do not dispute Lord Krishna's opinion on GYana. > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > Thanks for sharing the nice shloka with us. I am sorry that I had > > indeed overlooked responding to it. In this regard, I have already > > given my explanation of what's auspicious and what's not, based on > > Soubhagya Bhaskaram. > > > > Can you please explain to me how you understand the > > phrase "kulapathänandaikabéjänanä". > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same place, > > and if > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments are > > acceptable. > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support of your argument > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I sent > > you. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head come...in > > the > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other koota > > defined > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you imply that > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology mappings > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple principle in > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless you are > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to confuse > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended that "bisa > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at Mooladhara > > > > also they would have put it immediately after "mooladharaika > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python at > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at sahasraara. > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni tattwatmika at > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only from > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is ignited only > > when > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a group of > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the vacha. > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect the > > throat > > > > and not > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her principal > > abode > > > > is > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if you want > > to > > > > distort > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are free to > > do > > > > so. I > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja is most > > dear > > > > to > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the > > reference). > > > > It > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini means of > > the > > > > coiled > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly does not > > mean > > > > what > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala Tantra. Do > > you > > > > think > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > as > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as vagbhava > > beeja > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the yamalas, i > > am > > > > sure > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava > > koota...it's > > > > the > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of the > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave > > tatratya > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is the > > > > climactic > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, let me > > quote > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. maa > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the > > kundalini). > > > > don't > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. It's > > time > > > > for > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <% 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > > (greed), > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk > > with > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > > correct > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > > facets. > > > > As > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > > towards > > > > good > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > > wisdom, > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > > represented by > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > > power, > > > > is > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > correct/judicious > > > > end > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very > > very > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I > > also > > > > always > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > > results, > > > > if > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer > > to all > > > > my > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing > > an > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration > > and > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no > > > > purpose > > > > > > in > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > operating at > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. > > So > > > > > > please > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > biography > > > > you > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > > robust > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms > > with his > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I > > was > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja > > dosha > > > > > > how > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring > > our > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > > analysis > > > > of > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > > > > effects > > > > > > of > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have > > to be > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but > > only > > > > trying > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > > > perspective > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, > > I did > > > > > > not > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > > gave > > > > him > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > > beneficent > > > > > > as > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did > > its > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's > > chart > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful > > Raj > > > > yoga. > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may > > > > have to > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think > > > > about > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring > > that > > > > it > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > > looking at > > > > the > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > > away > > > > in > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 > > pm) > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 > > am) > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd > > lord > > > > from > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > > house of > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord > > from > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations > > are > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, > > can > > > > give > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > > influence of > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > > sure > > > > even > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but > > without the > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > wherever > > > > he > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > > Mars > > > > in > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > commented > > > > on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > > > > planets > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > > previous > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, > > and > > > > then > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > > said. > > > > Did > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma > > of > > > > left > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > following > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from > > Moon > > > > (AK) > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is > > with > > > > Sun > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > > point > > > > to > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu > > can > > > > give > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at > > all, was > > > > only > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 > > pm) > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 > > am) > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > (11:08:26 > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of > > the > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind > > > > willed > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > > planet in > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > > > exaltation > > > > > > in > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has > > > > already > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus > > in > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through > > my > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he > > was > > > > editor > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > > Yogas. > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed > > to > > > > it, at > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would > > all > > > > give > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > > (barring > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > principles > > > > and > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > reference > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > > respected > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > > anything > > > > that > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > > would > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would > > of > > > > > > course > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman > > that > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > > while > > > > weak > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about > > > > strong > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to > > what > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > > strong > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars > > in 5th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn (9H) > > and > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > debilitated > > > > in > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > > placement in > > > > the > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i > > > > would > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > > shubha > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > > nature > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > dhanurvidya > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > > borne in > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > > death, > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of > > the > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > promotions > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so > > as > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > > guessed > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > > after > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead > > of > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > > home > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > > popularly > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > > giving > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------- ---- > > ----- > > > > ---- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------- ---- > > ----- > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - > > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------- ---- > > ---- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > Release > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. 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Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, Are you not deviating from the original thread? Where is the reference to the dormant Kundalini being inauspicious? And may I know as to why the shloka describing the state of Kundalini at Muladhara is excluded? I am sure you know that Kundalini does not arise from Swadhishthana. Would you bekind enough to quote the source sothat I could try to locate the complete verse myself? Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > "agnim swaadhistaanagataagnitejomayeem kundalineemichhdhwam. > icchaadandenaahatyothapayadhwam....athaeva rodanaavasthasaahityaat. > kulakundaadutthaapanasyotpatti roopatwaaccha sadya utpannaa > kumaareetyuchyathe. yoshittaruNee kaarunyalakshaNaa > sooryeNaahtaaduparibhaage saahityaatpativrataa. patim > brahmarandhrastham kaameshwaram vratayati bhunkte payovratam > braahmaNasyethi prayogaaccha evam koumaarataaruNya > sambhogairarishtam shubham peeyusha varshaNaroopam anyadapi > yatkinchitsaakriyathe karoti tatsarvam agnisswaadhisthaanagatho > anuvedhati saadhayathi. agnijwalanenaiva chandramandalam dravateethi > bhavaH" > > I am sure you can translate this and understand that Kundalini has > the ability to do "shubham" only when it matures (utpatti avastha) > and unites with Shiva causing the amrita varsham, through the medium > of agni. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > Please let me have one of the dozens of quotes from scriptures > that you > > have that state that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious. That will > help > > enlighten me. Then we will take up the Vag beeja and other Kootas. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > Please tell me in the body divisions given according to kootas, > is > > > the head/face part of Vagbhava koota or not? Let's get this > straight > > > first, then we can discuss chakras and the rest. Please do not > worry > > > about quotes, because I will not disappoint you, and can provide > > > them by the ton:--)) > > > > > > When one is said to be "beheaded" does it mean the portion upto > neck > > > or the portion upto forehead? > > > > > > Are you not splitting hairs here? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > If you think Sahasrara and Vishuddha Chakras at the same > place, > > > and if > > > > Pankaja refers to head and not face, all your arguments are > > > acceptable. > > > > Unfortunately they are not. > > > > > > > > I see that you have not given anything in support of your > argument > > > > barring conjectures and have not commented on the shloka I > sent > > > you. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... > > > > > > > > > > Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa > > > > > kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini > > > > > Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. > > > > > > > > > > The three divisions are > > > > > > > > > > Vagbhava koota - the face/head > > > > > Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati > > > > > Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me in this division, where does the head > come...in > > > the > > > > > vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other koota > > > defined > > > > > for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you imply > that > > > > > Mother has only a face without the head!!! > > > > > > > > > > You know very well that we are not talking of astrology > mappings > > > > > here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple > principle in > > > > > this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless you are > > > > > confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to > confuse > > > > > others (no comments). > > > > > > > > > > If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended > that "bisa > > > > > tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at > Mooladhara > > > > > also they would have put it immediately after "mooladharaika > > > > > nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python at > > > > > mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at > sahasraara. > > > > > > > > > > Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni > tattwatmika at > > > > > mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only > from > > > > > swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is ignited > only > > > when > > > > > the Kundalini turns upwards. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a group of > > > > > Panchadhasha > > > > > > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the vacha. > > > > > > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect the > > > throat > > > > > and not > > > > > > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her > principal > > > abode > > > > > is > > > > > > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if you > want > > > to > > > > > distort > > > > > > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are > free to > > > do > > > > > so. I > > > > > > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja is > most > > > dear > > > > > to > > > > > > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the > > > reference). > > > > > It > > > > > > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini means > of > > > the > > > > > coiled > > > > > > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly does > not > > > mean > > > > > what > > > > > > you want to think it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala Tantra. > Do > > > you > > > > > think > > > > > > it is wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa > > > thadroopa"...Kundalini > > > > > as > > > > > > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as > vagbhava > > > beeja > > > > > > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the > yamalas, i > > > am > > > > > sure > > > > > > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava > > > koota...it's > > > > > the > > > > > > > head!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > > > > > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of > the > > > > > > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave > > > tatratya > > > > > > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is > the > > > > > climactic > > > > > > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, > let me > > > quote > > > > > > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. > maa > > > > > > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the > > > kundalini). > > > > > don't > > > > > > > let it sleep!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. > It's > > > time > > > > > for > > > > > > > taking leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <% > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > > > (greed), > > > > > > > moha > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among > the > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is > intoxicated/drunk > > > with > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > > > correct > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > > > facets. > > > > > As > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > > > towards > > > > > good > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? > The > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > > > represented by > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom > and > > > power, > > > > > is > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > correct/judicious > > > > > end > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very > > > very > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I > > > also > > > > > always > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > > > results, > > > > > if > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can > refer > > > to all > > > > > my > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or > losing > > > an > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > exploration > > > and > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I > see no > > > > > purpose > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > > operating at > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > young. > > > So > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > > biography > > > > > you > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of > apparent > > > robust > > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms > > > with his > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know > I > > > was > > > > > > > expected > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a > Kuja > > > dosha > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not > bring > > > our > > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > > > analysis > > > > > of > > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on > the > > > > > effects > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two > have > > > to be > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but > > > only > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > perhaps > > > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my > mail, > > > I did > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that > it > > > gave > > > > > him > > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > > > beneficent > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, > did > > > its > > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami > Vivekananda's > > > chart > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a > powerful > > > Raj > > > > > yoga. > > > > > > > At > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, > you may > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. > Think > > > > > about > > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before > declaring > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > > > looking at > > > > > the > > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he > passed > > > away > > > > > in > > > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 > (3:59:13 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > > > (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > > > (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 > (5:06:28 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > > > (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 > (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the > 2nd > > > lord > > > > > from > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > > > house of > > > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd > lord > > > from > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka > significations > > > are > > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th > house, > > > can > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > > > influence of > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I > am > > > sure > > > > > even > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but > > > without the > > > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > > wherever > > > > > he > > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th > > > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the > strong > > > Mars > > > > > in > > > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > > commented > > > > > on > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that > the > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > > > previous > > > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great > people, > > > and > > > > > then > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > > > said. > > > > > Did > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant > sarcoma > > > of > > > > > left > > > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his > chart, in > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > > following > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord > from > > > Moon > > > > > (AK) > > > > > > > & > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu > is > > > with > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of > which > > > point > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and > ketu > > > can > > > > > give > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at > > > all, was > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 > (2:05:32 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 > (8:49:14 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > > > (12:04:47 am) > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > > > (12:18:02 am) > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > (11:08:26 > > > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > (12:47:04 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa > of > > > the > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their > mind > > > > > willed > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my > next > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > > > planet in > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > > > > exaltation > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane > smritam has > > > > > already > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > Mars/Venus > > > in > > > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > through > > > my > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that > he > > > was > > > > > editor > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving > P.M. > > > Yogas. > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > attributed > > > to > > > > > it, at > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they > would > > > all > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with > Pancha > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > > > (barring > > > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > > principles > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using > Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > > reference > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > > > respected > > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > > > anything > > > > > that > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, > it > > > would > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I > would > > > of > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. > Raman > > > that > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > > > while > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree > about > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to > > > what > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find > that > > > strong > > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that > their > > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and > mars > > > in 5th > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn > (9H) > > > and > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > debilitated > > > > > in > > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > for "vipareetam > > > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > > > placement in > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives > good > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is > because i > > > > > would > > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > > > shubha > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > > > beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years > > > old, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice > the > > > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is > giving > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give > bad > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, > > > even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > wouldn't > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust > and > > > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according > to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala > is > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to > read the > > > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > > > nature > > > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama > would > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. > Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > > > borne in > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > Duryodhana, > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > > > house (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, > the > > > 10 th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > > > death, > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the > Rudras > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in > > > south and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to > > > Surya as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and > not > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results > of > > > the > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > > promotions > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. > It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 > or so > > > as > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not > > > have any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and > Rahu > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > > > guessed > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > > > after > > > > > all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > instead > > > of > > > > > Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I > say so > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a > papa > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > trikona > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though > claimed > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and > its > > > home > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > > > popularly > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at > > > its most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent > water > > > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My > > > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great > and i > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative > writing, > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I > > > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun > were > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being > in > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > > > giving > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > > > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water > bodies, > > > so why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best > spam > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------- > ---- > > > ----- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------- > ---- > > > ----- > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.12.2/441 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------- > ---- > > > ---- > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. 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Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, I did not say that. It was you who questioned whether a 5 year old can be intoxicated? I have not said that a baby does not have a mind soul etc. as far as I remember. I was only asking you about your premise of what is inner qualities/inherent/natural qualities and what is not and questioning the intoxication of a 5 year old child. I was pointing out that intoxication when related to Mada is not necessarily though not excluding that of intoxicating substance but also of mind. I think ego, as being out of proportionate proud of one's actual or perceived accomplishments and ego as the feeling of differentiation with that of Parmatman is very different. This is the problem when one wants to discuss Sanskrit or even Prakrit words in English. I think I have already brought this to your notice earlier too. I trust I have clarified my statements enough. And by the way when we are discussing ego yes that is about anomalies brought about by certain Grahas and who does that. Otherwise why would a graha, favorably disposed, bring about bad qualities in a person? Think about this. Would a weak Moon, afflicted and ill placed bring about mental aberration or a strong Moon that is favorably placed? Would weak Sun, unfavorably placed make one a King or a weak Sun unfavorably placed? If we are talking about a graha giving all the attributes given to it irrespective of its state of strength and type of placement, then perhaps we have wasted everyone's time and space. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > God forbid that I should find "unmaada" a natural/normal occurrence > in children. I am sure that you realize here that we are not > discussing anomalies but regular qualities. > > "ego" as a separate "I" feeling occurs right from birth, as a > survival instinct. It may not be apparent then, but then are soul, > mind etc very apparent at that stage/age? Just because it's not > actively manifested, can you say that a newborn baby has no soul, > mind etc? similarly speech, sexuality are also latent in all, but > will manifest only at the appropriate age. > > Please consider the above. > > Regards > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > Have you not heard about unmaada in even 3 year old children? > Please > > think about this before declaring that it is not possible in 5 > years > > old. And congenital conditions where impure blood flows t heart > causing > > comatose conditions that can be equated to intoxication? > > > > I do not think I have said that a Bull elephant is in a permanent > state > > of intoxication. I have only used its example to indicate what is > Mada. > > > > If the test of what is inner quality is being in that state > permanently > > then even your definition of ego suffers from not being so in very > young > > children. Nor is lust in existence from young age. Ask any medical > > practitioner and he will tell that I am not wrong. Not that I > think the > > parameter is right. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > What i meant by "inner" quality is an "inherent/natural " > quality of > > > human being. Please refer to my original mail in this respect. > > > > > > Now, all of us have soul, mind, strength, speech, knowledge, > > > happiness, ego (sense of being different from others) and grief. > > > Even a 5 year old kid has all these qualities, as appropriate to > > > his/her age, unless handicapped. Are we intoxicated? Is the 5 > year > > > old intoxicated? Is "intoxication" a natural or unnatural > quality? > > > Is the bull elephant in a permanent state of intoxication? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > At least AI did not answer as I did not want to split hairs > over > > > whether > > > > all that is mentioned in the referred shloka is inner quality > > > since I do > > > > not find Kalyan Varman mentioning or implying so. However as > you > > > want an > > > > reply, let me ask as to why if speech, attributed to Budha in > the > > > > shloka, can be internal quality according to you then why > should > > > > intoxication not be? > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji, > > > > > > > > > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the shloka > from > > > > > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an > > > > > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply > intoxication > > > as > > > > > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication" belong in > that > > > > > context, in that group? > > > > > > > > > > I do not think either of you responded to that. perhaps you > > > missed > > > > > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--)) > > > > > > > > > > Can i have your response(s) please? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean > > > > > intoxication > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana > which > > > > > means > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what > Asteya, > > > one > > > > > of the > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the > > > dormant > > > > > or > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be > > > misinterpreted > > > > > if > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any > purpose. I > > > would > > > > > not > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related > to > > > Maa. > > > > > I have > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to > support > > > your > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the > > > > > awakened > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the > way > > > my > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I > shall > > > not > > > > > repeat > > > > > > it here. > > > > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to > quote > > > from > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. > > > Being > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to > translate > > > it > > > > > for you. > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your > > > contention. I > > > > > would > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I > can > > > > > improve > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your > propositions > > > with > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by > pointing > > > out > > > > > the > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu > > > combinations > > > > > in two > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have > > > done so > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha > > > (greed), > > > > > moha > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya > > > (jealousy) > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk > > > with > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and > correct > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both > > > facets. As > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed > > > towards > > > > > good > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The > > > wisdom, > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is > > > represented > > > > > by > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and > > > power, is > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the > > > correct/judicious > > > > > end > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very > very > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I > also > > > > > always > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic > > > results, if > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer > to > > > all my > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or > losing an > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an > exploration and > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see > no > > > > > purpose in > > > > > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are > > > operating at > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die > young. So > > > > > please > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's > > > biography you > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent > > > robust > > > > > > > physique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms > with > > > his > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I > was > > > > > expected > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a > Kuja > > > dosha > > > > > how > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not > bring our > > > > > > > devotion to > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological > > > analysis of > > > > > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the > > > effects > > > > > of > > > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two > have > > > to be > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but > only > > > > > trying > > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have > perhaps > > > > > forgotten > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that > > > perspective > > > > > > > and let > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my > mail, I > > > did > > > > > not > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it > > > gave him > > > > > > > Sarcoma > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always > > > > > beneficent as > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, > did its > > > > > > > Mahadasha > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's > > > chart > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > lord of > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a > powerful Raj > > > > > yoga. At > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you > may > > > have > > > > > to > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. > Think > > > about > > > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before > declaring > > > that it > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and > looking > > > at > > > > > the > > > > > > > dass > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed > > > away in > > > > > Jup- > > > > > > > Ven- > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 > (3:59:13 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 > (4:48:54 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 > (10:43:55 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 > (5:06:28 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 > (2:29:24 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 > am) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd > > > lord from > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the > house > > > of > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd > lord > > > from > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations > are > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th > house, > > > can > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the > influence > > > of > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am > > > sure > > > > > even > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but > without > > > the > > > > > raja > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created > > > wherever he > > > > > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th > bhava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong > > > Mars in > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not > > > commented > > > > > on the > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the > > > planets > > > > > > > occupy > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in > > > previous > > > > > mail), > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great > people, > > > and > > > > > then > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I > > > said. Did > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant > sarcoma of > > > left > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, > in > > > > > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the > > > following > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord > from > > > Moon > > > > > (AK) & > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is > > > with Sun > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which > > > point to > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu > can > > > give > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at > all, > > > was > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 > (2:05:32 > > > pm) > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 > (8:49:14 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 > (12:04:47 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 > (12:18:02 > > > am) > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > > > (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 > (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa > of the > > > > > graha > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their > mind > > > > > willed the > > > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above > > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a > planet > > > in > > > > > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in > > > exaltation > > > > > in > > > > > > > rasi > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam > has > > > > > already > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered > Mars/Venus in > > > > > Thakur's > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go > through my > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he > was > > > > > editor > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > paper > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft > language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. > > > Yogas. > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > graha is > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga > attributed to > > > it, > > > > > at > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they > would > > > all > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > identical > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with > Pancha > > > > > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India > (barring > > > > > Saturn), > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us > > > principles and > > > > > > > > > expected us > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the > > > reference to > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic > > > respected > > > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept > > > anything that > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > not fit > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it > > > would be > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > exercise > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I > would of > > > > > course > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > glad to > > > > > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman > that > > > > > strong > > > > > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, > > > while weak > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree > about > > > strong > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to > what > > > all > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that > > > strong > > > > > > > malefics > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that > their > > > > > > > significations > > > > > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars > in > > > 5th > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) > and > > > Rahu > > > > > > > (4H). > > > > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while > > > debilitated in > > > > > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference > for "vipareetam > > > shaneH > > > > > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's > placement > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives > good > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is > because i > > > would > > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the > shubha > > > > > grahas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and > > > beneficial > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years > old, > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice > the > > > second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because > according > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, > even > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he > wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and > > > inferior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read > the > > > Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the > nature > > > bowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in > > > Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama > would > > > teach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn > > > dhanurvidya > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be > borne > > > in > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please > Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th > house > > > (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, > the 10 > > > th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents > > > south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of > death, > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the > Rudras > > > > > (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in > south > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has > > > digbala in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to > Surya > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and > not as > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of > the > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had > > > promotions > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or > so > > > as that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not > have > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you > > > guessed but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga > > > after all) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha > instead > > > of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say > so > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a > papa > > > graha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha > trikona > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed > to > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its > > > home > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more > popularly > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at > its > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent > water > > > bodies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My > father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, > > > Veena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I > guess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were > > > weak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in > > > Sun's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also > > > giving the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and > heavily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water > bodies, so > > > why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>> > > > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------- > ---- > > > ----- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > > > 268.11.7/435 - > > > > > Release > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------- > ---- > > > ----- > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: > 268.12.2/441 - > > > Release > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- > ---- > > > -- > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > > > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is > radically > > > > > easier > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- > -- > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > Release > > > Date: > > > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling > > > worldwide > > > > > with voicemail http://uk.messenger. > <http://uk.messenger.> > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>> > > > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.> > <http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release > Date: > > > 9/8/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email > > > address from your Internet provider. > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: > 9/15/2006 > > > > > > > > ________ > > All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard > protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html> > > > > > > > ------ > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release 9/15/2006 _________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Security Centre. http://uk.security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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