Guest guest Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 Dear list, I've made a little site where there is over 100 pictures of sidereal Aries rising people, sorted by the ascending degree. All the birth times are from Lois Rodden's AstroDatabank and I haven't rectified anything. You can compare navamsas with Lahiri and Raman ayanamsas. When I started the work last spring, I started with Fagan/Bradley ayanamsa, but it soon appeared that navamsas don't work with it; that's why I haven't made it as an option, at least so far. The URL of the site: http://koti.welho.com/jmetsovu/index.html Regards, Sari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 Dear Satish, I would consider him less Krura for indications of the bhava indicated by Karka. Chandrashekhar. SPK wrote: > > Chadrashekharji, > > Can you say same for mangal. Mangal in karka becomes > more krura or less ? > > Thanks > > Satish > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 (AT) (DOT) co.uk > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > wrote: > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > strength the Krura grahas > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > become more shubha. > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > less krura when > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > ended when I was 15 > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > part? I was old > > > enough to understand the difference between > > success and failure, I > > > guess! > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > results, and those > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > automatically follows that > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > (vide "a catechism > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > evil, give good > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > giving such good > > > results:--)) > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > in shadbala > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > combinations" of Sri > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > likely to give the > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > Parva of > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > in grief, because > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > Even the episode you > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > only Brahmins and > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > Parashurama so > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > certainly punishable and > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > that whatever > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > dearest friend. Karna > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > think there was a typo > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > sign, being the > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > disha. South is the > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > 10th house > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > Sun and Mars) are > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > starts his > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > 10th house. > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > deity. Perhaps this > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, > > Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > to manifest, > > > though it > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > you received > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > interesting to know you > > > got > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > is when Sun dasha > > > was > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > health problems in > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > give results of Sun > > > more > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > also that of > > > Mercury > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > and that is why I > > > said > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > dasha needs to be > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > because Jyotish says > > > that > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > and he is conjunct > > > two, > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > directly involved with > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > smashana/burial > > > ground, it > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > is why affliction > > > to it > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > mrityu sthana and > > > hence > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > smashana why would it be > > > called > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > in temple, but not > > > only > > > > those. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > received promotion(s), > > > my > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > quiz contests etc, > > > apart > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > that's excellent!! > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > Rahu is certainly > > > giving > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > house and being > > > conjunct > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > results of Sun? You > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > can't he represent > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > === message truncated === > > > > > <> > > > ------ > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release 8/31/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 Dear Sari, That is a great effort. Keep it up. Chandrashekhar. Sari Metsovuori wrote: > > Dear list, > > I've made a little site where there is over 100 pictures of sidereal > Aries > rising people, sorted by the ascending degree. All the birth times are > from > Lois Rodden's AstroDatabank and I haven't rectified anything. You can > compare navamsas with Lahiri and Raman ayanamsas. When I started the work > last spring, I started with Fagan/Bradley ayanamsa, but it soon appeared > that navamsas don't work with it; that's why I haven't made it as an > option, > at least so far. > > The URL of the site: http://koti.welho.com/jmetsovu/index.html > <http://koti.welho.com/jmetsovu/index.html> > > Regards, Sari > > > ------ > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release 8/31/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dear Sari That is quite a commendable project, and thanks for sharing it. My first impression on looking at these pics is how strikingly round or extra long the faces in the Taurus navamsa section are, and the Leo navamsa pics for the most part, seems to contain pics with the most haughtiest or 'regal' of looks. The Scorpio section is amusingly punctuated by Marchall whose rather furtive sideways peering over his high collar epitomises the dark furtive,secretiveness associated with this sign! Brilliant project ---thanks Margaret - Sari Metsovuori Thursday, September 07, 2006 3:12 PM Ascendant Gallery Dear list, I've made a little site where there is over 100 pictures of sidereal Aries rising people, sorted by the ascending degree. All the birth times are from Lois Rodden's AstroDatabank and I haven't rectified anything. You can compare navamsas with Lahiri and Raman ayanamsas. When I started the work last spring, I started with Fagan/Bradley ayanamsa, but it soon appeared that navamsas don't work with it; that's why I haven't made it as an option, at least so far. The URL of the site: http://koti.welho.com/jmetsovu/index.html Regards, Sari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dear Pradeep, Chandrasekharji and Margaret, thank you for your comments. I had fun doing the gallery, when I noted that people with the same or very close ascending degrees really resemble each other, sometimes surprisingly much. Takanohana and MFK Fisher are one of my favourite example. Maybe that could be one way to prove astrology... I think I'll add numbers on the pictures so that it's easier to discuss about them. Regards, Sari - "Marg" <margie9 (AT) talktalk (DOT) net> <> Friday, September 08, 2006 11:26 AM Re: Ascendant Gallery > Dear Sari > > That is quite a commendable project, and thanks for sharing it. My first > impression on looking at these pics is how strikingly round or extra long > the faces in the Taurus navamsa section are, and the Leo navamsa pics for > the most part, seems to contain pics with the most haughtiest or 'regal' > of looks. The Scorpio section is amusingly punctuated by Marchall whose > rather furtive sideways peering over his high collar epitomises the dark > furtive,secretiveness associated with this sign! > Brilliant project ---thanks > Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Om Gurave namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong planets, whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the jyotish texts teach? Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations suffered. Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H). Mars and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa. Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH sritam"? Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th house being beneficial? I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. Regards, Lakshmi Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to read it up myself and understand. > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > become more shubha. > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > less krura when > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > part? I was old > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > success and failure, I > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > results, and those > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > automatically follows that > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > evil, give good > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > giving such good > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > in shadbala > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > likely to give the > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > Parva of > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > in grief, because > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > Even the episode you > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > only Brahmins and > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > Parashurama so > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > certainly punishable and > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > that whatever > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > think there was a typo > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > sign, being the > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > disha. South is the > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > 10th house > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > starts his > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > to manifest, > > > > though it > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > you received > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > interesting to know you > > > > got > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > was > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > health problems in > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > give results of Sun > > > > more > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > also that of > > > > Mercury > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > and that is why I > > > > said > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > dasha needs to be > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > because Jyotish says > > > > that > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > and he is conjunct > > > > two, > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > directly involved with > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > smashana/burial > > > > ground, it > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > is why affliction > > > > to it > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > hence > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > smashana why would it be > > > > called > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > in temple, but not > > > > only > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > received promotion(s), > > > > my > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > apart > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > giving > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > house and being > > > > conjunct > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > can't he represent > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > <> > > > > > > -------------------------------- ------- > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release 8/31/2006 > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dear Sari, Please do the numbering of the pictures. That would certainly make discussing them easier. Chandrashekhar. Sari Metsovuori wrote: > > Dear Pradeep, Chandrasekharji and Margaret, > > thank you for your comments. I had fun doing the gallery, when I noted > that > people with the same or very close ascending degrees really resemble each > other, sometimes surprisingly much. Takanohana and MFK Fisher are one > of my > favourite example. Maybe that could be one way to prove astrology... I > think > I'll add numbers on the pictures so that it's easier to discuss about > them. > > Regards, Sari > > - > "Marg" <margie9 (AT) talktalk (DOT) net <margie9%40talktalk.net>> > < <%40>> > Friday, September 08, 2006 11:26 AM > Re: Ascendant Gallery > > > Dear Sari > > > > That is quite a commendable project, and thanks for sharing it. My > first > > impression on looking at these pics is how strikingly round or extra > long > > the faces in the Taurus navamsa section are, and the Leo navamsa > pics for > > the most part, seems to contain pics with the most haughtiest or > 'regal' > > of looks. The Scorpio section is amusingly punctuated by Marchall whose > > rather furtive sideways peering over his high collar epitomises the > dark > > furtive,secretiveness associated with this sign! > > Brilliant project ---thanks > > Margaret > > > ------ > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - Release 9/7/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi. I stated the principle given. It has nothing to do with what Dr. Raman said. Giving examples out of contexts does not prove a point. For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is lord of the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At the same time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to think again about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what it did to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it became shubha or less malefic. Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. In each of the example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets occupy (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), without looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then make up your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you know Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand and Mars is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation. Do you think Mars gave him benevolent results? In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in debilitation in Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in rasi chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already been mentioned by me, in earlier mail. About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of a paper "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every graha is capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the very least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give identical results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha Yoga would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), just because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and expected us to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected amongst astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does not fit in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an exercise in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be glad to give it to you. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong planets, > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the jyotish > texts teach? > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics > have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations > suffered. > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H). Mars > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa. > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH sritam"? > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th house > being beneficial? > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to > read it up myself and understand. > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > become more shubha. > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > less krura when > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > part? I was old > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > results, and those > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > evil, give good > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > giving such good > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > in shadbala > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > likely to give the > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > Parva of > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > in grief, because > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > that whatever > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > sign, being the > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > 10th house > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > starts his > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > to manifest, > > > > > though it > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > you received > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > got > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > was > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > health problems in > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > more > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > also that of > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > and that is why I > > > > > said > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > that > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > two, > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > is why affliction > > > > > to it > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > hence > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > called > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > only > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > my > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > apart > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > giving > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > house and being > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > ------- > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date: > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, I quoted the references(highly respected ones) I know. I have not confined myself only to Shri B.V. Raman, but also said that all major jyotish texts say that exalted/strong planets, whether benefic or malefic, give good results. I was trying to understand and verify your point of view and accordingly took up some charts where malefics are strong. How do you say that whatever examples I have given are out of context? I also requested you to give the source and context of your quote. Is trying to understand/verify what you have said, by principle and example, wrong? Would you rather want me to blindly accept whatever you've stated? I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and experience and can certainly do so, but can't help wondering why you have not accorded the same respect to the vision/experience of acknowledged masters of astrology? I am certainly interested in knowing reference of the quote....if possible the entire shloka please. I will also go through your analysis of the charts with an open mind and revert to you later (after 2 days-going to tiruvannamalai). If I am convinced what you've said is correct, I have no problems in correcting myself. After all that's the major advantage of being a student:--)) Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi. > > I stated the principle given. It has nothing to do with what Dr. Raman > said. Giving examples out of contexts does not prove a point. > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is lord of > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At the same > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to think again > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what it did > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it became > shubha or less malefic. Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. In each of the > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets occupy > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), without > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then make up > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you know > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand and Mars > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation. Do you > think Mars gave him benevolent results? In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in debilitation in > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in rasi > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already been > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of a paper > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every graha is > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the very > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give identical > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha Yoga > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), just > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and expected us > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected amongst > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does not fit > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an exercise > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be glad to > give it to you. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong planets, > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the jyotish > > texts teach? > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations > > suffered. > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H). Mars > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa. > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH sritam"? > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th house > > being beneficial? > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > less krura when > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > starts his > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > you received > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > got > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > was > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > more > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > also that of > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > said > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > that > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > called > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > only > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > house and being > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date: > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 Dear Lakshmi, You will find it in Saravali when talking about the way nature and strengths of grahas manifest. So the source is impeccable. Here is the shloka: AaTmadyae ggngEbRiliÉbRlvÄra>, ätmädayo gaganagairbalibhirbalavattaräù| ÊbRlEÊRbRla }eya ivpirt< zne> Sm&tm!. durbalairdurbalä jïeyä viparitaà çaneù småtam|| I am sure there is no confusion inn what Kalyan Varman said. You may have to use Sanskrit99 fonts for first and 3rd line and ULW PALLADIO IT fonts for 2nd and 4th line of the shloka. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > I quoted the references(highly respected ones) I know. I have not > confined myself only to Shri B.V. Raman, but also said that all > major jyotish texts say that exalted/strong planets, whether benefic > or malefic, give good results. > > I was trying to understand and verify your point of view and > accordingly took up some charts where malefics are strong. How do > you say that whatever examples I have given are out of context? > > I also requested you to give the source and context of your quote. > > Is trying to understand/verify what you have said, by principle and > example, wrong? Would you rather want me to blindly accept whatever > you've stated? I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and > experience and can certainly do so, but can't help wondering why you > have not accorded the same respect to the vision/experience of > acknowledged masters of astrology? > > I am certainly interested in knowing reference of the quote....if > possible the entire shloka please. I will also go through your > analysis of the charts with an open mind and revert to you later > (after 2 days-going to tiruvannamalai). If I am convinced what > you've said is correct, I have no problems in correcting myself. > After all that's the major advantage of being a student:--)) > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi. > > > > I stated the principle given. It has nothing to do with what Dr. > Raman > > said. Giving examples out of contexts does not prove a point. > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is > lord of > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At > the same > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to think > again > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what it > did > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it became > > shubha or less malefic. Or if you like look at what happened to > the 7th > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. In each of > the > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets occupy > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), > without > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then make > up > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you > know > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand > and Mars > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation. Do > you > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? In Paramhans Ramkrishna's > chart, > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > debilitation in > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in rasi > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already been > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. About Shri Aurobindo, I trust > you are > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of a > paper > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every > graha is > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the > very > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > identical > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha > Yoga > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), > just > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > expected us > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected amongst > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does > not fit > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > exercise > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be > glad to > > give it to you. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > planets, > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > jyotish > > > texts teach? > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations > > > suffered. > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H). > Mars > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa. > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > sritam"? > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th > house > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > around > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release > Date: > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, Back from Tiruvannamail. Had a lovely time. Thanks for the reference, and it is impeccable indeed. However, i only wish you had also given the previous shloka, which sets the correct context in which your quote should be interpreted. Unfortunately I do not have sanskrit Saravali (i intend to rectify it soon), but I do have the tranlation. Luckily for me, Visti (bless him!) had quoted the 1st and 2nd shlokas from chapter 4 of saravali, in his excellent article on Vimsamsa (available on srigaruda.com) and i reproduce them below for everyone's benefit. ätmä raviù çétakarastu vetaù sattvaà dharäjaù çaçijo'tha väëé| guruùsito jïänaçukhe madaçca rähuù çäniù kälanarasya duùkham||1|| The Sun is the Atma, Moon is the Mana, Mars indicates the strength, Jupiter and Venus show knowledge and happiness respectively, ones ego is indicated by Rahu and Saturn is the cause of grief. ätmädayo gaganagairbaàlibhirbalavattaräù|....(already quoted by you) The Atma, and other significations will be strong if their placement in the heavens (bhavas) is auspicious. If these planets are weak, the effects are only meager. But in the case of Saturn it is different. Let me clearly state what i understand from the above: If Sun is strong, Soul force is strong, if Moon is strong, then mind is strong, if Mars is strong, strength is more, if jupiter is strong then one's knowledge is good, if Venus is strong, then one's sukha/comforts is more, if Rahu is strong then one's ego is strong, and if Saturn is strong, grief is less!! It is so because Saturn gives a different result. Now, isn't "less grief" a good result given by a strong Saturn? If Saturn is weak, he will give greater grief. Btw, Sir, how come you have not noticed that Kalyana Varma mentioned Rahu as the karaka for ego? That too just in the previous shloka!! Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Lakshmi, > > You will find it in Saravali when talking about the way nature and > strengths of grahas manifest. So the source is impeccable. Here is the > shloka: > > AaTmadyae ggngEbRiliÉbRlvÄra>, > > ätmädayo gaganagairbalibhirbalavattaräù| > > ÊbRlEÊRbRla }eya ivpirt< zne> Sm&tm!. > > durbalairdurbalä jïeyä viparitaà çaneù småtam|| > > > I am sure there is no confusion inn what Kalyan Varman said. You may > have to use Sanskrit99 fonts for first and 3rd line and ULW PALLADIO IT > fonts for 2nd and 4th line of the shloka. > > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > I quoted the references(highly respected ones) I know. I have not > > confined myself only to Shri B.V. Raman, but also said that all > > major jyotish texts say that exalted/strong planets, whether benefic > > or malefic, give good results. > > > > I was trying to understand and verify your point of view and > > accordingly took up some charts where malefics are strong. How do > > you say that whatever examples I have given are out of context? > > > > I also requested you to give the source and context of your quote. > > > > Is trying to understand/verify what you have said, by principle and > > example, wrong? Would you rather want me to blindly accept whatever > > you've stated? I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and > > experience and can certainly do so, but can't help wondering why you > > have not accorded the same respect to the vision/experience of > > acknowledged masters of astrology? > > > > I am certainly interested in knowing reference of the quote....if > > possible the entire shloka please. I will also go through your > > analysis of the charts with an open mind and revert to you later > > (after 2 days-going to tiruvannamalai). If I am convinced what > > you've said is correct, I have no problems in correcting myself. > > After all that's the major advantage of being a student:--)) > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi. > > > > > > I stated the principle given. It has nothing to do with what Dr. > > Raman > > > said. Giving examples out of contexts does not prove a point. > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is > > lord of > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At > > the same > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to think > > again > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what it > > did > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it became > > > shubha or less malefic. Or if you like look at what happened to > > the 7th > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. In each of > > the > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets occupy > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), > > without > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then make > > up > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you > > know > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand > > and Mars > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation. Do > > you > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? In Paramhans Ramkrishna's > > chart, > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > debilitation in > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in rasi > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already been > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. About Shri Aurobindo, I trust > > you are > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of a > > paper > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every > > graha is > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the > > very > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > identical > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha > > Yoga > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), > > just > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > expected us > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected amongst > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does > > not fit > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > > exercise > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be > > glad to > > > give it to you. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > > planets, > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > > jyotish > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H). > > Mars > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa. > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > sritam"? > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th > > house > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > around > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ - > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release > > Date: > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, I forgot to add the following: 1) I find that there's no disagreement between what's given in other texts and Saravali. 2)I also find that according to the shloka quoted by you, there's no support for the supposition that krura planets become maha-krura with exaltation...unless you happen to equate Soul and strength with krura tatwa!! 3) Mercury is ofcourse karaka for speech:--)) Regards, Lakshmi , "b_lakshmi_ramesh" <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > Back from Tiruvannamail. Had a lovely time. > > Thanks for the reference, and it is impeccable indeed. However, i > only wish you had also given the previous shloka, which sets the > correct context in which your quote should be interpreted. > > Unfortunately I do not have sanskrit Saravali (i intend to rectify > it soon), but I do have the tranlation. Luckily for me, Visti (bless > him!) had quoted the 1st and 2nd shlokas from chapter 4 of saravali, > in his excellent article on Vimsamsa (available on srigaruda.com) > and i reproduce them below for everyone's benefit. > > ätmä raviù çétakarastu vetaù sattvaà dharäjaù çaçijo'tha väëé| > guruùsito jïänaçukhe madaçca rähuù çäniù kälanarasya duùkham||1|| > > The Sun is the Atma, Moon is the Mana, Mars indicates the strength, > Jupiter and Venus show knowledge and happiness respectively, ones > ego is indicated by Rahu and Saturn is the cause of grief. > > ätmädayo gaganagairbaàlibhirbalavattaräù|....(already quoted by you) > > The Atma, and other significations will be strong if their placement > in the heavens (bhavas) is auspicious. If these planets are weak, > the effects are only meager. But in the case of Saturn it is > different. > > Let me clearly state what i understand from the above: > If Sun is strong, Soul force is strong, if Moon is strong, then mind > is strong, if Mars is strong, strength is more, if jupiter is strong > then one's knowledge is good, if Venus is strong, then one's > sukha/comforts is more, if Rahu is strong then one's ego is strong, > and if Saturn is strong, grief is less!! It is so because Saturn > gives a different result. > > Now, isn't "less grief" a good result given by a strong Saturn? If > Saturn is weak, he will give greater grief. > > Btw, Sir, how come you have not noticed that Kalyana Varma mentioned > Rahu as the karaka for ego? That too just in the previous shloka!! > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > Dear Lakshmi, > > > > You will find it in Saravali when talking about the way nature and > > strengths of grahas manifest. So the source is impeccable. Here is > the > > shloka: > > > > AaTmadyae ggngEbRiliÉbRlvÄra>, > > > > ätmädayo gaganagairbalibhirbalavattaräù| > > > > ÊbRlEÊRbRla }eya ivpirt< zne> Sm&tm!. > > > > durbalairdurbalä jïeyä viparitaà çaneù småtam|| > > > > > > I am sure there is no confusion inn what Kalyan Varman said. You > may > > have to use Sanskrit99 fonts for first and 3rd line and ULW > PALLADIO IT > > fonts for 2nd and 4th line of the shloka. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > I quoted the references(highly respected ones) I know. I have not > > > confined myself only to Shri B.V. Raman, but also said that all > > > major jyotish texts say that exalted/strong planets, whether > benefic > > > or malefic, give good results. > > > > > > I was trying to understand and verify your point of view and > > > accordingly took up some charts where malefics are strong. How do > > > you say that whatever examples I have given are out of context? > > > > > > I also requested you to give the source and context of your > quote. > > > > > > Is trying to understand/verify what you have said, by principle > and > > > example, wrong? Would you rather want me to blindly accept > whatever > > > you've stated? I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and > > > experience and can certainly do so, but can't help wondering why > you > > > have not accorded the same respect to the vision/experience of > > > acknowledged masters of astrology? > > > > > > I am certainly interested in knowing reference of the quote....if > > > possible the entire shloka please. I will also go through your > > > analysis of the charts with an open mind and revert to you later > > > (after 2 days-going to tiruvannamalai). If I am convinced what > > > you've said is correct, I have no problems in correcting myself. > > > After all that's the major advantage of being a student:--)) > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi. > > > > > > > > I stated the principle given. It has nothing to do with what > Dr. > > > Raman > > > > said. Giving examples out of contexts does not prove a point. > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya > is > > > lord of > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At > > > the same > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to > think > > > again > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > what it > > > did > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > became > > > > shubha or less malefic. Or if you like look at what happened to > > > the 7th > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. In each > of > > > the > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > occupy > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), > > > without > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then > make > > > up > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you > > > know > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand > > > and Mars > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > exaltation. Do > > > you > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? In Paramhans > Ramkrishna's > > > chart, > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > debilitation in > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in > rasi > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already > been > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. About Shri Aurobindo, I trust > > > you are > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor > of a > > > paper > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every > > > graha is > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at > the > > > very > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > > identical > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > Mahapurusha > > > Yoga > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), > > > just > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > expected us > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > amongst > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > does > > > not fit > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > > > exercise > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course > be > > > glad to > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > > > planets, > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > planets > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > malefics > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > > > jyotish > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > malefics > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > significations > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > (4H). > > > Mars > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > sritam"? > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the > 8th > > > house > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > like to > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > > around > > > > > > > <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- -- > - > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release > > > Date: > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is lord of > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At the same > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to think again > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what it did > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it became > shubha or less malefic. Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the dass operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup-Ven- Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) Deha-antardasas in this PAD: Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from Moon and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus and gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn on Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even weak Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he went. Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the exalted Saturn in 4th house. In each of the > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets occupy > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), without > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then make up > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you know > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand and Mars > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation. Do you > think Mars gave him benevolent results? Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK) & 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only indirect, and he was not the killer. Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) Deha-antardasas in this PAD: Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the death. Can a planet give results in a dasa totally unrelated/unassociated with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. Regards, Lakshmi In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in debilitation in > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in rasi > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already been > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of a paper > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every graha is > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the very > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give identical > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha Yoga > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), just > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and expected us > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected amongst > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does not fit > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an exercise > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be glad to > give it to you. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong planets, > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the jyotish > > texts teach? > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations > > suffered. > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H). Mars > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa. > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH sritam"? > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th house > > being beneficial? > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > less krura when > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > starts his > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > you received > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > got > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > was > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > more > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > also that of > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > said > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > that > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > called > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > only > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > house and being > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date: > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, Continuing from where i left earlier, in Sri ramana Maharshi's case, Sun & Rahu, also posited in the 7th from Moon, are the marakas. Ramana Maharshi died of Cancer, and it is known that expansive planets like Rahu and jupiter cause cancer. Ofcourse, Mars as the 6th lord from Moon and 3& 8th lord from lagna can also indicate illness, but in Sri Ramana's case it's the afflicted Sun who proved to be the maraka more than the strong Mars!! Talking about Shri Aurobindo, I think Vande Mataram is a nationalist newspaper and as such is bound to contain fiery language. I am puzzled that for you, Sri Aurobindo pesonifies only Vande Mataram and not his other attributes/achievements. He excelled in various languages including latin, greek, sanskrit etc, and authored a vast collection of books/essays etc. His "Savitri" is a monumental poem. Venus+Mercury combination in 2nd house certainly made him talented, but it's the strong Sun, as 2nd lord in 2nd, who lent him that extraordinary brilliance where language is concerned. I took up celebrity charts because their life is known to every one and events can be verified. However if you prefer to discuss non- celebrity charts i am ready to do so. I always found strong benefics/malefics giving good results (wrt their significations ...both natural & functional)unless they are otherwise afflicted. As you said, vivekam should be accorded primacy, alongwith comprehensive examination, in judging a chart and one should not be carried away by bias. Regards, Lakshmi , "b_lakshmi_ramesh" <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is > lord of > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At > the same > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to think > again > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what it > did > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it became > > shubha or less malefic. > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the dass > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup- Ven- > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from Moon > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus and > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn on > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even weak > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he went. > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > In each of the > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets occupy > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), > without > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then make > up > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you > know > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand > and Mars > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation. Do > you > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK) & > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the > death. > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally unrelated/unassociated > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > debilitation in > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in rasi > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already been > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of a > paper > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every > graha is > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the > very > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > identical > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha > Yoga > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), > just > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > expected us > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected amongst > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does > not fit > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > exercise > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be > glad to > > give it to you. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > planets, > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > jyotish > > > texts teach? > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations > > > suffered. > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H). > Mars > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa. > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > sritam"? > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th > house > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > around > > > > > <> > > > < <>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release > Date: > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, It is nice to know you had lovely time at Tiruvannamail. I am glad you found the reference impeccable. Even if we accept that the shloka must be understood in the context of the previous shloka, it would yet mean that Saturn being strong gives less sorrow and since this is contrary result, per the shloka for others, if malefic, they will act as more malefic when they are strong. Actually this is reiterated if one looks at the previous shloka where a strong rahu is said to give more Mada. Of course if one wants to put only the meaning that is acceptable to one, ignoring rules of interpretation of astrological texts, one is always free to do so. By the way Mada actually has many meanings in Sanskrit language and Lust is one of them. It also refers to intoxication and Koshas do give that meaning to Mada. Of course one can always take creative artistic liberty to interpret Mada as ego even if it does not refer to ego. I can not help that. Take care, Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > Back from Tiruvannamail. Had a lovely time. > > Thanks for the reference, and it is impeccable indeed. However, i > only wish you had also given the previous shloka, which sets the > correct context in which your quote should be interpreted. > > Unfortunately I do not have sanskrit Saravali (i intend to rectify > it soon), but I do have the tranlation. Luckily for me, Visti (bless > him!) had quoted the 1st and 2nd shlokas from chapter 4 of saravali, > in his excellent article on Vimsamsa (available on srigaruda.com) > and i reproduce them below for everyone's benefit. > > ätmä raviù çétakarastu vetaù sattvaà dharäjaù çaçijo'tha väëé| > guruùsito jïänaçukhe madaçca rähuù çäniù kälanarasya duùkham||1|| > > The Sun is the Atma, Moon is the Mana, Mars indicates the strength, > Jupiter and Venus show knowledge and happiness respectively, ones > ego is indicated by Rahu and Saturn is the cause of grief. > > ätmädayo gaganagairbaàlibhirbalavattaräù|....(already quoted by you) > > The Atma, and other significations will be strong if their placement > in the heavens (bhavas) is auspicious. If these planets are weak, > the effects are only meager. But in the case of Saturn it is > different. > > Let me clearly state what i understand from the above: > If Sun is strong, Soul force is strong, if Moon is strong, then mind > is strong, if Mars is strong, strength is more, if jupiter is strong > then one's knowledge is good, if Venus is strong, then one's > sukha/comforts is more, if Rahu is strong then one's ego is strong, > and if Saturn is strong, grief is less!! It is so because Saturn > gives a different result. > > Now, isn't "less grief" a good result given by a strong Saturn? If > Saturn is weak, he will give greater grief. > > Btw, Sir, how come you have not noticed that Kalyana Varma mentioned > Rahu as the karaka for ego? That too just in the previous shloka!! > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Lakshmi, > > > > You will find it in Saravali when talking about the way nature and > > strengths of grahas manifest. So the source is impeccable. Here is > the > > shloka: > > > > AaTmadyae ggngEbRiliÉbRlvÄra>, > > > > ätmädayo gaganagairbalibhirbalavattaräù| > > > > ÊbRlEÊRbRla }eya ivpirt< zne> Sm&tm!. > > > > durbalairdurbalä jïeyä viparitaà çaneù småtam|| > > > > > > I am sure there is no confusion inn what Kalyan Varman said. You > may > > have to use Sanskrit99 fonts for first and 3rd line and ULW > PALLADIO IT > > fonts for 2nd and 4th line of the shloka. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > I quoted the references(highly respected ones) I know. I have not > > > confined myself only to Shri B.V. Raman, but also said that all > > > major jyotish texts say that exalted/strong planets, whether > benefic > > > or malefic, give good results. > > > > > > I was trying to understand and verify your point of view and > > > accordingly took up some charts where malefics are strong. How do > > > you say that whatever examples I have given are out of context? > > > > > > I also requested you to give the source and context of your > quote. > > > > > > Is trying to understand/verify what you have said, by principle > and > > > example, wrong? Would you rather want me to blindly accept > whatever > > > you've stated? I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and > > > experience and can certainly do so, but can't help wondering why > you > > > have not accorded the same respect to the vision/experience of > > > acknowledged masters of astrology? > > > > > > I am certainly interested in knowing reference of the quote....if > > > possible the entire shloka please. I will also go through your > > > analysis of the charts with an open mind and revert to you later > > > (after 2 days-going to tiruvannamalai). If I am convinced what > > > you've said is correct, I have no problems in correcting myself. > > > After all that's the major advantage of being a student:--)) > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi. > > > > > > > > I stated the principle given. It has nothing to do with what > Dr. > > > Raman > > > > said. Giving examples out of contexts does not prove a point. > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya > is > > > lord of > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At > > > the same > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to > think > > > again > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > what it > > > did > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > became > > > > shubha or less malefic. Or if you like look at what happened to > > > the 7th > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. In each > of > > > the > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > occupy > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), > > > without > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then > make > > > up > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you > > > know > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand > > > and Mars > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > exaltation. Do > > > you > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? In Paramhans > Ramkrishna's > > > chart, > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > debilitation in > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in > rasi > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already > been > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. About Shri Aurobindo, I trust > > > you are > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor > of a > > > paper > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every > > > graha is > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at > the > > > very > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > > identical > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > Mahapurusha > > > Yoga > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), > > > just > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > expected us > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > amongst > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > does > > > not fit > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > > > exercise > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course > be > > > glad to > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > > > planets, > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > planets > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > malefics > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > > > jyotish > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > malefics > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > significations > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > (4H). > > > Mars > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > sritam"? > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the > 8th > > > house > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > like to > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > > around > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > - > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release > > > Date: > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, Did I say that Saravali conflicts with classics? I do not think so. I also said that Krura become Maha krura in exaltation with the exception of Saturn and as you doubted the authenticity of the dictum "Shane Viparitama Smritam" I revealed the source as Saravali. I think the only place where you have a different opinion is that Atma/strength can not be Krura and Sun is Atma in the real sense. I happen to differ on that, as all including Parashara have classified Surya as Papa/Krura graha and I do not consider myself an authority greater than the sages. So I must differ with you on that point. Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > I forgot to add the following: > > 1) I find that there's no disagreement between what's given in other > texts and Saravali. > > 2)I also find that according to the shloka quoted by you, there's no > support for the supposition that krura planets become maha-krura > with exaltation...unless you happen to equate Soul and strength with > krura tatwa!! > > 3) Mercury is ofcourse karaka for speech:--)) > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > Back from Tiruvannamail. Had a lovely time. > > > > Thanks for the reference, and it is impeccable indeed. However, i > > only wish you had also given the previous shloka, which sets the > > correct context in which your quote should be interpreted. > > > > Unfortunately I do not have sanskrit Saravali (i intend to rectify > > it soon), but I do have the tranlation. Luckily for me, Visti > (bless > > him!) had quoted the 1st and 2nd shlokas from chapter 4 of > saravali, > > in his excellent article on Vimsamsa (available on srigaruda.com) > > and i reproduce them below for everyone's benefit. > > > > ätmä raviù çétakarastu vetaù sattvaà dharäjaù çaçijo'tha väëé| > > guruùsito jïänaçukhe madaçca rähuù çäniù kälanarasya duùkham||1|| > > > > The Sun is the Atma, Moon is the Mana, Mars indicates the > strength, > > Jupiter and Venus show knowledge and happiness respectively, ones > > ego is indicated by Rahu and Saturn is the cause of grief. > > > > ätmädayo gaganagairbaàlibhirbalavattaräù|....(already quoted by > you) > > > > The Atma, and other significations will be strong if their > placement > > in the heavens (bhavas) is auspicious. If these planets are weak, > > the effects are only meager. But in the case of Saturn it is > > different. > > > > Let me clearly state what i understand from the above: > > If Sun is strong, Soul force is strong, if Moon is strong, then > mind > > is strong, if Mars is strong, strength is more, if jupiter is > strong > > then one's knowledge is good, if Venus is strong, then one's > > sukha/comforts is more, if Rahu is strong then one's ego is > strong, > > and if Saturn is strong, grief is less!! It is so because Saturn > > gives a different result. > > > > Now, isn't "less grief" a good result given by a strong Saturn? If > > Saturn is weak, he will give greater grief. > > > > Btw, Sir, how come you have not noticed that Kalyana Varma > mentioned > > Rahu as the karaka for ego? That too just in the previous shloka!! > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi, > > > > > > You will find it in Saravali when talking about the way nature > and > > > strengths of grahas manifest. So the source is impeccable. Here > is > > the > > > shloka: > > > > > > AaTmadyae ggngEbRiliÉbRlvÄra>, > > > > > > ätmädayo gaganagairbalibhirbalavattaräù| > > > > > > ÊbRlEÊRbRla }eya ivpirt< zne> Sm&tm!. > > > > > > durbalairdurbalä jïeyä viparitaà çaneù småtam|| > > > > > > > > > I am sure there is no confusion inn what Kalyan Varman said. You > > may > > > have to use Sanskrit99 fonts for first and 3rd line and ULW > > PALLADIO IT > > > fonts for 2nd and 4th line of the shloka. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > I quoted the references(highly respected ones) I know. I have > not > > > > confined myself only to Shri B.V. Raman, but also said that all > > > > major jyotish texts say that exalted/strong planets, whether > > benefic > > > > or malefic, give good results. > > > > > > > > I was trying to understand and verify your point of view and > > > > accordingly took up some charts where malefics are strong. How > do > > > > you say that whatever examples I have given are out of context? > > > > > > > > I also requested you to give the source and context of your > > quote. > > > > > > > > Is trying to understand/verify what you have said, by > principle > > and > > > > example, wrong? Would you rather want me to blindly accept > > whatever > > > > you've stated? I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and > > > > experience and can certainly do so, but can't help wondering > why > > you > > > > have not accorded the same respect to the vision/experience of > > > > acknowledged masters of astrology? > > > > > > > > I am certainly interested in knowing reference of the > quote....if > > > > possible the entire shloka please. I will also go through your > > > > analysis of the charts with an open mind and revert to you > later > > > > (after 2 days-going to tiruvannamalai). If I am convinced what > > > > you've said is correct, I have no problems in correcting > myself. > > > > After all that's the major advantage of being a student:--)) > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi. > > > > > > > > > > I stated the principle given. It has nothing to do with what > > Dr. > > > > Raman > > > > > said. Giving examples out of contexts does not prove a point. > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > Surya > > is > > > > lord of > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. > At > > > > the same > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to > > think > > > > again > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > > what it > > > > did > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > > became > > > > > shubha or less malefic. Or if you like look at what happened > to > > > > the 7th > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. In > each > > of > > > > the > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > > occupy > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > mail), > > > > without > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then > > make > > > > up > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did > you > > > > know > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left > hand > > > > and Mars > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > exaltation. Do > > > > you > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? In Paramhans > > Ramkrishna's > > > > chart, > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > debilitation in > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation > in > > rasi > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already > > been > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. About Shri Aurobindo, I > trust > > > > you are > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor > > of a > > > > paper > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > Every > > > > graha is > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at > > the > > > > very > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > > > identical > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > Mahapurusha > > > > Yoga > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > Saturn), > > > > just > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > > expected us > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > amongst > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > > does > > > > not fit > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > > > > exercise > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > course > > be > > > > glad to > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > > > > planets, > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > > planets > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > > malefics > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > > > > jyotish > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > malefics > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > significations > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > house > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > > (4H). > > > > Mars > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the > > 8th > > > > house > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > > like to > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > > > around > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > -- > > - > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at different levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So please do not try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you will find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust physique. Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his being capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was expected to analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha how does that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our devotion to Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of his chart. Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects of grahas will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be seen separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying to find what are the effects on bhavas occupied. Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps forgotten the saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective and let me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did not say anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him Sarcoma being 3rd lord. Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent as you have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its Mahadasha prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? Take care, Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is > lord of > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At > the same > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to think > again > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what it > did > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it became > > shubha or less malefic. > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the dass > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup-Ven- > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from Moon > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus and > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn on > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even weak > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he went. > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > In each of the > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets occupy > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), > without > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then make > up > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you > know > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand > and Mars > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation. Do > you > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK) & > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the > death. > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally unrelated/unassociated > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > debilitation in > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in rasi > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already been > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of a > paper > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every > graha is > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the > very > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > identical > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha > Yoga > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), > just > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > expected us > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected amongst > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does > not fit > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > exercise > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be > glad to > > give it to you. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > planets, > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > jyotish > > > texts teach? > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations > > > suffered. > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H). > Mars > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa. > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > sritam"? > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th > house > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > around > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release > Date: > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, Remember it is you who attributed Surya with divine qualities, being Atma, bereft of any malice and said he is giver of good when with rahu in your case and now you say that it gives Cancer, when aspecting Moon (7th from it). What proposition is correct? First decide that then we shall delve into analysis of chart of Ramana Maharshi. I did not know that only good points, according to those who place religion over their motherland, are to be highlighted in Aurobindo's chart. I look at his revolutionary credential with reverence. For me it makes him not only more divine but also more human for having been a revolutionary who dared to put his own life at risk for the sake of his convictions. So we naturally differ on our view of looking at a chart. I prefer to analyze a chart by looking at what the planets hold in promise and you perhaps are more concerned with the perception that others had about a famous personality. So let us not begin by telling that only divine things, related to a religious figure, can only be commented on if a chart is presented as Pramana of a jyotish principle under discussion. If interpreting charts in the way people want the religious or national figures to be seen is to be resorted to under the garb of Viveka, then let us not talk about astrological principles. We can pick up any biography and try to fit in the perception of that figure amongst its followers or fans, with the chart. That is not difficult. But for me that is not Jyotish. I am sorry if I am too strong in expressing my views on Jyotish, here. But I can not toe the populist line just because that is the in thing in the name of Vedic Shastra. Take care, Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > Continuing from where i left earlier, in Sri ramana Maharshi's case, > Sun & Rahu, also posited in the 7th from Moon, are the marakas. > Ramana Maharshi died of Cancer, and it is known that expansive > planets like Rahu and jupiter cause cancer. Ofcourse, Mars as the > 6th lord from Moon and 3& 8th lord from lagna can also indicate > illness, but in Sri Ramana's case it's the afflicted Sun who proved > to be the maraka more than the strong Mars!! > > Talking about Shri Aurobindo, I think Vande Mataram is a nationalist > newspaper and as such is bound to contain fiery language. I am > puzzled that for you, Sri Aurobindo pesonifies only Vande Mataram > and not his other attributes/achievements. He excelled in various > languages including latin, greek, sanskrit etc, and authored a vast > collection of books/essays etc. His "Savitri" is a monumental poem. > Venus+Mercury combination in 2nd house certainly made him talented, > but it's the strong Sun, as 2nd lord in 2nd, who lent him that > extraordinary brilliance where language is concerned. > > I took up celebrity charts because their life is known to every one > and events can be verified. However if you prefer to discuss non- > celebrity charts i am ready to do so. I always found strong > benefics/malefics giving good results (wrt their > significations ...both natural & functional)unless they are > otherwise afflicted. > > As you said, vivekam should be accorded primacy, alongwith > comprehensive examination, in judging a chart and one should not be > carried away by bias. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is > > lord of > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At > > the same > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to > think > > again > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what > it > > did > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > became > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the > dass > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup- > Ven- > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from Moon > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus > and > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn > on > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even > weak > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he went. > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > In each of the > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > occupy > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), > > without > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then > make > > up > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you > > know > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand > > and Mars > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation. > Do > > you > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK) & > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the > > death. > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally unrelated/unassociated > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > debilitation in > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in > rasi > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already > been > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of > a > > paper > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every > > graha is > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the > > very > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > identical > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha > > Yoga > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), > > just > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > expected us > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > amongst > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does > > not fit > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > > exercise > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be > > glad to > > > give it to you. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > > planets, > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > planets > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > malefics > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > > jyotish > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > malefics > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > significations > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H). > > Mars > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > navamsa. > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > sritam"? > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th > > house > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like > to > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > around > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release > > Date: > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), moha (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards good deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented by Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious end use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very important. I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also always said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my previous mails to confirm this. Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no purpose in continuing these discussions. Thanks & Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at different > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So please do not > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you will > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust physique. > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his being > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was expected to > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha how does > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our devotion to > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of his chart. > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects of grahas > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be seen > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying to find > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps forgotten the > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective and let > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did not say > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him Sarcoma > being 3rd lord. > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent as you > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its Mahadasha > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > Take care, > Chandrashekhar. > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is > > lord of > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At > > the same > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to think > > again > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what it > > did > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it became > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the dass > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup- Ven- > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from Moon > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus and > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn on > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even weak > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he went. > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > In each of the > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets occupy > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), > > without > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then make > > up > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you > > know > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand > > and Mars > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation. Do > > you > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK) & > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the > > death. > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally unrelated/unassociated > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > debilitation in > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in rasi > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already been > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of a > > paper > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every > > graha is > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the > > very > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > identical > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha > > Yoga > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), > > just > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > expected us > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected amongst > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does > > not fit > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > > exercise > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be > > glad to > > > give it to you. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > > planets, > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > > jyotish > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H). > > Mars > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa. > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > sritam"? > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th > > house > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > around > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ - > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release > > Date: > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa thadroopa"...Kundalini as preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as vagbhava beeja or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the yamalas, i am sure you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava koota...it's the head!! Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of the eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave tatratya shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH. Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is the climactic name of shakti in ascension? Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, let me quote this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. maa swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the kundalini). don't let it sleep!! Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. It's time for taking leave. Regards, Lakshmi , "b_lakshmi_ramesh" <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), moha > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards good > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented by > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious end > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > important. > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also always > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > previous mails to confirm this. > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no purpose in > continuing these discussions. > > Thanks & Regards, > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > different > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So please > do not > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > will > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > physique. > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > being > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was expected > to > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha how > does > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > devotion to > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > his chart. > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects of > grahas > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be seen > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying > to find > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps forgotten > the > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > and let > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did not > say > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > Sarcoma > > being 3rd lord. > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent as > you > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > Mahadasha > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya > is > > > lord of > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At > > > the same > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to > think > > > again > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > what it > > > did > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > became > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the > dass > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup- > Ven- > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > Moon > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus > and > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn > on > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even > weak > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > went. > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > In each of the > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > occupy > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), > > > without > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then > make > > > up > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you > > > know > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand > > > and Mars > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > exaltation. Do > > > you > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK) & > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the > > > death. > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > unrelated/unassociated > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > debilitation in > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in > rasi > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already > been > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor > of a > > > paper > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every > > > graha is > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at > the > > > very > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > > identical > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > Mahapurusha > > > Yoga > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), > > > just > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > expected us > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > amongst > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > does > > > not fit > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > > > exercise > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course > be > > > glad to > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > > > planets, > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > planets > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > malefics > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > > > jyotish > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > malefics > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > significations > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > (4H). > > > Mars > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > sritam"? > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the > 8th > > > house > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > like to > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > > around > > > > > > > <> > > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > > < <>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- -- > - > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release > > > Date: > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a group of Panchadhasha mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the vacha. Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect the throat and not the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her principal abode is said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if you want to distort this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are free to do so. I would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja is most dear to her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the reference). It would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini means of the coiled form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly does not mean what you want to think it does. In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala Tantra. Do you think it is wrong? Chandrashekhar. b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa thadroopa"...Kundalini as > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as vagbhava beeja > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the yamalas, i am sure > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava koota...it's the > head!! > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of the > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave tatratya > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH. > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is the climactic > name of shakti in ascension? > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, let me quote > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. maa > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the kundalini). don't > let it sleep!! > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. It's time for > taking leave. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), > moha > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards good > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented by > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious end > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > important. > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also always > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no purpose > in > > continuing these discussions. > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > different > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > please > > do not > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > > will > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > physique. > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > being > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > expected > > to > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha > how > > does > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > devotion to > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > > his chart. > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects > of > > grahas > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be > seen > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying > > to find > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > forgotten > > the > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > > and let > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did > not > > say > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > > Sarcoma > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent > as > > you > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > Mahadasha > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > Take care, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > Surya > > is > > > > lord of > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. > At > > > > the same > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to > > think > > > > again > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > > what it > > > > did > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > > became > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the > > dass > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in > Jup- > > Ven- > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > > Moon > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > Venus > > and > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > stronger > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > Saturn > > on > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even > > weak > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the > raja > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > > went. > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in > 7th > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on > the > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > > occupy > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > mail), > > > > without > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then > > make > > > > up > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did > you > > > > know > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left > hand > > > > and Mars > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > exaltation. Do > > > > you > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK) > & > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun > and > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give > the > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed > the > > > > death. > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > debilitation in > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation > in > > rasi > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already > > been > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > Thakur's > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > message > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor > > of a > > > > paper > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > Every > > > > graha is > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at > > the > > > > very > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > > > identical > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > Mahapurusha > > > > Yoga > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > Saturn), > > > > just > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > > expected us > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > amongst > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > > does > > > > not fit > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > > > > exercise > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > course > > be > > > > glad to > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > > > > planets, > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > > planets > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > > malefics > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > > > > jyotish > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > malefics > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > significations > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > house > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > > (4H). > > > > Mars > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the > > 8th > > > > house > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > > like to > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > > > around > > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > -- > > - > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 Dear Divine Lakshmi, Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean intoxication or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which means desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, one of the Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the dormant or awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be misinterpreted if one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I would not go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to Maa. I have not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support your proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the awakened Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way my generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall not repeat it here. But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote from Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. Being graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate it for you. Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. I would like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can improve upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions with suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing out the inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu combinations in two different chart as stand out combinations only. I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done so inadvertently I crave your pardon. Take care, Chandrashekhar b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), moha > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards good > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented by > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious end > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > important. > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also always > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > previous mails to confirm this. > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no purpose in > continuing these discussions. > > Thanks & Regards, > Lakshmi > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > different > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So please > do not > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > will > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > physique. > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > being > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was expected > to > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha how > does > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > devotion to > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > his chart. > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects of > grahas > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be seen > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying > to find > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps forgotten > the > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > and let > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did not > say > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > Sarcoma > > being 3rd lord. > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent as > you > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > Mahadasha > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya > is > > > lord of > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At > > > the same > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to > think > > > again > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > what it > > > did > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > became > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the > dass > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup- > Ven- > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > Moon > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus > and > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn > on > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even > weak > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > went. > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > In each of the > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > occupy > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), > > > without > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then > make > > > up > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you > > > know > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand > > > and Mars > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > exaltation. Do > > > you > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK) & > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the > > > death. > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > unrelated/unassociated > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > debilitation in > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in > rasi > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already > been > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor > of a > > > paper > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every > > > graha is > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at > the > > > very > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > > identical > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > Mahapurusha > > > Yoga > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), > > > just > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > expected us > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > amongst > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > does > > > not fit > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > > > exercise > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course > be > > > glad to > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > > > planets, > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > planets > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > malefics > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > > > jyotish > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > malefics > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > significations > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > (4H). > > > Mars > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > sritam"? > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the > 8th > > > house > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > like to > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > > around > > > > > > > <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>> > > > > > < <> > < <>> > > > < <> > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > - > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release > > > Date: > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namste It was indeed a great plesure to read your mails regarding interpretations of the astrological text and more specially how Sanskrit language words can mislead at times. Now I have some doubts. I think Pride means Self-respect and Ego means Inflated or False Pride. Parashara has attributed the Sun to being Raja or King. In the vedic philosophy we see that Raja was suppose to take care of the welfare of his subjects. In the Chandogya Upanishad the king Ashvapati describes his kingdom and his subjects as: "In my kingdom there is no thief,no coward,nor amiser,no drunked,nor is there one who has not taken the vow of worship of the'Fire', no idots, nor men of loose character.Where could therefore be here women without morals?"(Chandogya 5-11). We as well see similar references in Ramayana regarding RamaRajya. Rama says: I will forsake everything, affection,compassion,happiness,even my beloved wife Janaki, for the sake of the welfare of my subjects. I will not mind any affliction in abondoning my wife for the good of my subjects". We find many such references in RigVeda and Atherva veda as well. The great epic of VedaVyasa as well gives similar attributes to King.Such was the concept of the ideal of the institution of kingship, which every Vedic king took PRIDE in realising. In the pasasge of Time there came the western counterpart for Vedic Kings. In the west the mediaeval thinkers invested divine inheritance on the king who was considered to be the representative of God. The king having received his authority to rule by divine right was not answerable to the people and therefore was an absolute in his own right.The people had no right to rebel against the king or demand his dethronement. The predominant thought behind that concept was to bestow sovereign and absolute powers on the king. This naturally made Kings to have 'inflated pride' or EGO. This western mediaeval concept of king had great influence in Mediaeval indian kings as well. In Bharat, however, political thinkers never advocated or offered any abolute power and authority to the king. Kingship was always regared as subservient to the will and dependent upon the sanction of the people and was alwyas answerable to them. So there was no concept of 'Inflated or False Pride' in the Vedic King. The king being fully aware that all his authority and power were derived from his subjects would try to look to their welfare. So in a Vedic Jyotish way the Sun in strength will have PRIDE in being ideal 'king' for his subjects(other Grahas). Same, if seen in Western way can mean the Sun will have EGO. Moreover, we see that Western(foreign) cocept of Absolute power with the King is exactly opposite that of Vedic concept of King. So in a vedic way of thinking what is wrong in attributting Rahu to foreign concept of inflated & false Pride or EGO.? Finally, Mada does mean Pride in sanskrit. When attributed to Rahu, will naturally have the element of falsehood/deceit associated with pride and hence may lead to EGO. Am I wrong? Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. Prabodh Vekhande Jai Jai Shankar Har Har Shankar , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean intoxication > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which means > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, one of the > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the dormant or > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be misinterpreted if > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I would not > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to Maa. I have > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support your > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the awakened > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way my > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall not repeat > it here. > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote from > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. Being > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate it for you. > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. I would > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can improve > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions with > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing out the > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu combinations in two > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done so > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), moha > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards good > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented by > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious end > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > important. > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also always > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no purpose in > > continuing these discussions. > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > different > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So please > > do not > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > > will > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > physique. > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > being > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was expected > > to > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha how > > does > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > devotion to > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > > his chart. > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects of > > grahas > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be seen > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying > > to find > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps forgotten > > the > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > > and let > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did not > > say > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > > Sarcoma > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent as > > you > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > Mahadasha > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > Take care, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya > > is > > > > lord of > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At > > > > the same > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to > > think > > > > again > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > > what it > > > > did > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > > became > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the > > dass > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup- > > Ven- > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > > Moon > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus > > and > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn > > on > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even > > weak > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > > went. > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > > occupy > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), > > > > without > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then > > make > > > > up > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you > > > > know > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand > > > > and Mars > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > exaltation. Do > > > > you > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon (AK) & > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the > > > > death. > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > debilitation in > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in > > rasi > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already > > been > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor > > of a > > > > paper > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every > > > > graha is > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at > > the > > > > very > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > > > identical > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > Mahapurusha > > > > Yoga > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), > > > > just > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > > expected us > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > amongst > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > > does > > > > not fit > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > > > > exercise > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course > > be > > > > glad to > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > > > > planets, > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > > planets > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > > malefics > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > > > > jyotish > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > malefics > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > significations > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > > (4H). > > > > Mars > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the > > 8th > > > > house > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > > like to > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > > > around > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------- --- > > - > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, It is interesting to see that you do not think that pride and ego are not one and the same thing. Please refer to your own message at /message/11735 where you mentioned the following: "we find that Bhava Manjari does attribute Abhimana (pride/ego) to Surya and so does Bhuvan Deepak." How come pride/ego are synonymous in the case of Sun and not so in the case of Rahu? Is this fair? And, is this necessary? Isn't "abhimaana" a much milder word than "mada"? The word "abhimaana" might have positive connotations, but the word "mada" has absolutely no positive connotations. Pradeep may not understand this but I am sure you do. Fair arguments never hurt me, sir, but this sort of arguments, especially coming from you, certainly confound me. Can you quote any pramaana that says "mada" means only lust and not pride/ego/vanity etc? Regarding vidyaa/avidyaa and auspicious/inauspicious nature of Mother: Vidyaavidya swaroopini: 402nd name of Mother Vidyaamchaavidyaamchayasthadvedobhayam saH, avidyayaamritu teerthva,vidyayaamritamasnutha, vidyaina charamavrittiroopam jnaanam, avidyaa bhedabhraantiroopam jnaanam" Avidya results in mrityu while vidyaa results in immortality and moiksha. Vidyaa gives charama vrittiroopa jnaanam, while avidya gives bhedabhraanthiroopa jnaanam. So, which one is auspicious? The direction which gives immortality/moksha or the direction which results in differentiation, delusion and death? Further in the explanation of the name "BhadramoorthiH" it is stated in Soubhagyabhaskaram that "brahmam tanmangalam". The true auspiciousness is that after which no other inauspiciousness occurs. In a state which is dominated by desires, delusions etc (mooladhara), this is impossible. This state of " absoluteness auspiciousness " is possible only at the state of Brahman (sahasraara). "theshaamcha lokaapibahuvidhaaH parasivaabhinnamahaashaktistu sarvalokaatheethaa mahaakailaasaaparaajithaadi padapratipaadye sarvalokotthare tisthathi.anyaapaam sivashakteenaam kathipayaanam saattwikshareeraanyapi sattwaadhikyagunaantharaalpatwa yukthaani na punaH shuddhasattwaani.. "The form where Mother is one with shiva is the highest/mahaashakti form. All shiva+shakti roopas are sattwa roopas, but those lower than this are a mixture of rajo and tamo gunas. I hope these suffice, or if you want, I can quote more. Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean intoxication > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which means > desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, one of the > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to. > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the dormant or > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be misinterpreted if > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I would not > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to Maa. I have > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support your > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the awakened > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way my > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall not repeat > it here. > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote from > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. Being > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate it for you. > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. I would > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can improve > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini. > > I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions with > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing out the > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu combinations in two > different chart as stand out combinations only. > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done so > inadvertently I crave your pardon. > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), moha > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards good > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented by > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious end > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > important. > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also always > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no purpose in > > continuing these discussions. > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > different > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So please > > do not > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > > will > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > physique. > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > being > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was expected > > to > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha how > > does > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > devotion to > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > > his chart. > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects of > > grahas > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be seen > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying > > to find > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps forgotten > > the > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > > and let > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did not > > say > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > > Sarcoma > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent as > > you > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > Mahadasha > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > Take care, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya > > is > > > > lord of > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At > > > > the same > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to > > think > > > > again > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > > what it > > > > did > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > > became > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the > > dass > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup- > > Ven- > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > > Moon > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus > > and > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn > > on > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even > > weak > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > > went. > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > > occupy > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), > > > > without > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then > > make > > > > up > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you > > > > know > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand > > > > and Mars > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > exaltation. Do > > > > you > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon (AK) & > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the > > > > death. > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > debilitation in > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in > > rasi > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already > > been > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor > > of a > > > > paper > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every > > > > graha is > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at > > the > > > > very > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > > > identical > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > Mahapurusha > > > > Yoga > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), > > > > just > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > > expected us > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > amongst > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > > does > > > > not fit > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > > > > exercise > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course > > be > > > > glad to > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > > > > planets, > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > > planets > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > > malefics > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > > > > jyotish > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > malefics > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > significations > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > > (4H). > > > > Mars > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the > > 8th > > > > house > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > > like to > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > > > around > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- ---- > > - > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release > > > > Date: > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, Lalitha Sahasranaamam describes Mother thus... Srimadvaagbhavakootaika swaroopamukha pankajaa kanthaadhakatiparyanta madhyakoota swaroopini Shaktikootaikathaapanna katyadhobhaagadhaariNi. The three divisions are Vagbhava koota - the face/head Madhya/kamaraaja koota - from neck to kati Shakti koota - the portion after kati to feet Can you tell me in this division, where does the head come...in the vagbhava koota or in shakti koota? Is there any other koota defined for the head/rear portion of the face etc? Or do you imply that Mother has only a face without the head!!! You know very well that we are not talking of astrology mappings here. Yet why you choose to interpret even a simple principle in this strange fashion is some thing beyond me, unless you are confused yourself (can happen to all of us) or want to confuse others (no comments). If either Bhagavan Hayagriva or Sage Agasthya intended that "bisa tantu taneeyasi" should be understood wrt kundalini at Mooladhara also they would have put it immediately after "mooladharaika nilayaa.. and not after "shatchakropari samsthithaa". ofcourse, I do not mean that Kundalini is like a python at mooladhara:--)), but definitely much grosser than at sahasraara. Btw, I am sure you know that kundalini is not agni tattwatmika at mooladhara. The agnitattwa of "vidyullekha" happens only from swadhisthana, because agni is oordhwa mukha and is ignited only when the Kundalini turns upwards. Regards, Lakshmi , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a group of Panchadhasha > mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the vacha. > Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect the throat and not > the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her principal abode is > said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if you want to distort > this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are free to do so. I > would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja is most dear to > her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the reference). It > would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini means of the coiled > form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly does not mean what > you want to think it does. > > In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this. > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta, > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä| > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21. > sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21|| > > This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala Tantra. Do you think > it is wrong? > > Chandrashekhar. > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa thadroopa"...Kundalini as > > preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as vagbhava beeja > > or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the yamalas, i am sure > > you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava koota...it's the > > head!! > > > > Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini. > > It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of the > > eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave tatratya > > shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH. > > > > Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is the climactic > > name of shakti in ascension? > > > > Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, let me quote > > this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. maa > > swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the kundalini). don't > > let it sleep!! > > > > Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. It's time for > > taking leave. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh" > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), > > moha > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy) > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego). > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards good > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom, > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented by > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious end > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very > > > important. > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also always > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my > > > previous mails to confirm this. > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no purpose > > in > > > continuing these discussions. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at > > > different > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So > > please > > > do not > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you > > > will > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust > > > physique. > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his > > > being > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was > > expected > > > to > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha > > how > > > does > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our > > > devotion to > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of > > > his chart. > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects > > of > > > grahas > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be > > seen > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying > > > to find > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied. > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps > > forgotten > > > the > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective > > > and let > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did > > not > > > say > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him > > > Sarcoma > > > > being 3rd lord. > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent > > as > > > you > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its > > > Mahadasha > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi? > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart > > Surya > > > is > > > > > lord of > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. > > At > > > > > the same > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to > > > think > > > > > again > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about > > > what it > > > > > did > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it > > > became > > > > > > shubha or less malefic. > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the > > > dass > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in > > Jup- > > > Ven- > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat. > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm) > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm) > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm) > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am) > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am) > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am) > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from > > > Moon > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of > > Venus > > > and > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are > > stronger > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death. > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this. > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of > > Saturn > > > on > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even > > > weak > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the > > raja > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he > > > went. > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in > > 7th > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on > > the > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house. > > > > > > > > > > In each of the > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets > > > occupy > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous > > mail), > > > > > without > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then > > > make > > > > > up > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did > > you > > > > > know > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left > > hand > > > > > and Mars > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in > > > exaltation. Do > > > > > you > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon (AK) > > & > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun > > and > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give > > the > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer. > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm) > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am) > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am) > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am) > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm) > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD: > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm) > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed > > the > > > > > death. > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally > > > unrelated/unassociated > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively. > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart, > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in > > > > > debilitation in > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation > > in > > > rasi > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already > > > been > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in > > Thakur's > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my > > message > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor > > > of a > > > > > paper > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language. > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. > > Every > > > > > graha is > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at > > > the > > > > > very > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give > > > > > identical > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha > > > Mahapurusha > > > > > Yoga > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring > > Saturn), > > > > > just > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and > > > > > expected us > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected > > > amongst > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that > > > does > > > > > not fit > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an > > > > > exercise > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of > > course > > > be > > > > > glad to > > > > > > give it to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong > > > > > planets, > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak > > > planets > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong > > > malefics > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > texts teach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong > > > malefics > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their > > > significations > > > > > > > suffered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna. > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu > > > (4H). > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in > > > navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH > > > > > sritam"? > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the > > > 8th > > > > > house > > > > > > > being beneficial? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would > > > like to > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@ > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha. > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or > > > > > > > > > > less krura when > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15 > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I > > > > > > > > > > > guess! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's > > > > > > > > > > results, and those > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be > > > > > > > > > > giving such good > > > > > > > > > > > results:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300 > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna > > > > > > > > > > Parva of > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata. > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind > > > > > > > > > > that whatever > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence > > > > > > > > > > 10th house > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn, > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and > > > > > > > > > > starts his > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha > > > > > > > > > > to manifest, > > > > > > > > > > > though it > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and > > > > > > > > > > you received > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you > > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any > > > > > > > > > > health problems in > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but > > > > > > > > > > also that of > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all) > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I > > > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > two, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction > > > > > > > > > > > to it > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and > > > > > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s), > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena, > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc, > > > > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak? > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's > > > > > > > > > > house and being > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > <> > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > < <>>> > > > > > > > < <> > > < <>> > > > > > < <> > > < <>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ ---- > > -- > > > - > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - > > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 8/31/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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