Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 can someone tell me what is meant by the use of the word "Planets". Isn't Vaikuntha in the spiritual world, well beyond the material Universe? why are locations in Vaikuntha called "planets"? what is meant by this? are there really different "Planets" in Vaikuntha, like we see in this Universe, with Mars, Jupiter and Earth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 can someone tell me what is meant by the use of the word "Planets". Isn't Vaikuntha in the spiritual world, well beyond the material Universe? why are locations in Vaikuntha called "planets"? what is meant by this? are there really different "Planets" in Vaikuntha, like we see in this Universe, with Mars, Jupiter and Earth? of course there are unlimited planets in Vaikuntha. There are unlimited incarnations of Godhead who have planets in the spiritual world. It is told in the Vedic shastra that the residents of Vaikuntha travel around from one planet to another on spiritual airplanes to pay homage to the many different forms of God in the spiritual sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 can someone tell me what is meant by the use of the word "Planets". Isn't Vaikuntha in the spiritual world, well beyond the material Universe? why are locations in Vaikuntha called "planets"? what is meant by this? are there really different "Planets" in Vaikuntha, like we see in this Universe, with Mars, Jupiter and Earth? Just as there are a multitude of planets on this plane of consciousness, so are there a multitude of planets on the plane of consciousness of Vaikuntha. They're just more spiritual there while over here everything is materialistic in nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 airplanes? but we can teleport ourselves in our subtle body even on the astral plane, without the need of airplanes? so we lose the ability to teleport in Vaikuntha? or are the airplanes used for ecstatics and grandeur? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Does anyone but Prabhupada use the term Planet? what is the exact Sanskrit term. I have not heard other Vaishnavas besides Hare Krishnas use the term Planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 It appears the Sanskrit word loka has a broad range of meanings, including things like "place,region,world," etc. Why do you think a Vaikuntha planet has to be something material like the planets here? Why not try to broaden your understanding of the concept? You could call them planes of consciousness or whatever, but planet has done the job for many, many devotees, apparently without confusing them too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 ahh ok, region or place makes a little more sense in helping me understand. Planet to me makes me think of round globes, like Earth, Jupiter and Mars. I was wondering if that's what Vaikuntha was like, a bunch of people on different round globes, because of the use of the term Planet, which in the English language means something very specific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Vaikuntha is a plane which may stretch for several millions and millions of kilometeres which mean no matter how manyb souls populate it it will never be overpopulated. There are many divine planes like Vaikuntha which is permanent and also Indiras Swarkaloka which is temporary. There are also Hellish planes of existence like Yamas Hells and very scary hells like AndhaTamas which is permanent. l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 The entire material world is a reflection of the Vaikuntha realm. In general, the structure that exists here is reflecting from there. But in Vaikuntha it is without limitation or material quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 very scary hells like AndhaTamas which is permanent.l this sounds like Muslim belief? Vaishnavas don't believe like Muslims that God sends people to dungeons to be tortured forever. God loves everyone, and will not torture souls forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 It is your nature or "Swabhava"that determines where you go eventually.So just like a pig will not be comfortable in a clean spacious house and will go back to the pig sty ,in the same way wicked people like doing wicked and cruel things and this thay can do abundantly in Andhan Tamas The good people who like doing good will have an opportunity to do so in Vaikuntha. Materialists go to Santhanaloka which is just like Earth ,a little better. So ,net result is everybody is happy and justice is served You are a follower of the Madhva-sect, aren't you? Just so you know, no other "Hindu" sects believe in this "eastern" Calvinism, that says some jivas are inherently tamasic and have no hope of liberation. Only the Madhva sects speaks of eternal damnation.. Other Vaishnava sects do not, and certainly the Saivites, Shaktas and Smartas do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 this sounds like Muslim belief? Vaishnavas don't believe like Muslims that God sends people to dungeons to be tortured forever. God loves everyone, and will not torture souls forever. Just because a realm is permanent, it does not mean that there must be some soul living there eternally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 You are a follower of the Madhva-sect, aren't you? Just so you know, no other "Hindu" sects believe in this "eastern" Calvinism, that says some jivas are inherently tamasic and have no hope of liberation. Only the Madhva sects speaks of eternal damnation.. Other Vaishnava sects do not, and certainly the Saivites, Shaktas and Smartas do not. Its the truth like it or not.Even I do not like the concept of eternal hell. But Sri Madhvacharya is an incarnation of Sri Vayudeva and he has successfully defeated all the Mayavadis and Shunyavadis . He has presented valid "Pramanas" unlike other sects which preach sentimetalism and eternal heaven for all. There are several Madhva saints who have been consistently appearing in their devotees dreams. Its all about logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 I could tell you were a follower of the Madhva-sect, as no Sri Vaishnava or Gaudiya agrees with this teaching. Our acharyas have also defeated Mayavadi philosophy, and said that Vaikuntha and God's grace and love are available to all jivas. What you believe is that some souls are inherently tamasic, some are inherently rajasic and some are inherently sattvic, without any hope of improving their spiritual status. This is called Calvinism in the Christian religion, and not even most Christians believe this. Ancient Vedic sages certainly never taught Calvinism. The Upanishads do not declare that any soul is inherently tamasic, just the opposite infact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krishnadasa Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Guess it deals with the degree of understyanding of a person. Just like if i say not all become devotee of Lord Krishna, only the sattvic ones , then doesnt it say that the salvation is only for the sattvic souls. Had all been good guess all wud have become devotees , thats not true and you can see that infront of you. So if you relate this with the distinction what Sripada Madhwa made i imagine his theory holds perfectly true.... In addition I have read Srila Prabahupada mentioning in his lectures about how all his followers were in some past lives the devotees of Lord hari.... Not all can become devotees so not all can reach vaikuta. Well it does hold good however that once a devotee then the devotee for ever Hari hari bol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Guess it deals with the degree of understyanding of a person. Just like if i say not all become devotee of Lord Krishna, only the sattvic ones , then doesnt it say that the salvation is only for the sattvic souls. Had all been good guess all wud have become devotees , thats not true and you can see that infront of you. So if you relate this with the distinction what Sripada Madhwa made i imagine his theory holds perfectly true.... what is a sattvic soul? some jivas are under the influence of one guna more than others, due to their samskaras, and karma. But that does not mean one jiva is inherently more sattvic in it's essential soul-essence than another. In addition I have read Srila Prabahupada mentioning in his lectures about how all his followers were in some past lives the devotees of Lord hari.... Post quotes and context of quotes. Not all can become devotees so not all can reach vaikuta. Well it does hold good however that once a devotee then the devotee for ever Not all will become devotees this lifetime, but this does not mean it is eternally fixed that they will never rise to the spiritual platform because they are by their essential nature "tamasic". In past lifetimes, we were not devotees, and now in this lifetime we are, due to God's grace. God says in the Gita he is partial to no one. Nowhere does he say, there are 3 types of souls, and only one special group of souls who are inherently good can be my devotees, and the rest are eternally damned or can never attain my Supreme Abode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 the spiritual world is often described as Vaikuntha planets enveloped in the Brahmajyoti effulgence and separated by the mighty Viraja river of Brahman from the material world. tatastha is the demarkation line between Viraja (spiritual) and material world, from where living entities originate. this is a nice visualization but it has some limitations. perhaps tatastha refers not to a place, but a consciousness. perhaps you can stand next to Lord Vishnu and have a tatastha type consciousness. what is my consciousness now? is it even tatastha? perhaps it is mostly material and that's why I'm here in the material world. that is my latest rumination on the "fall of jiva" question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Can the sun ever be liquid? Can a snake bark or a dog hiss? Can cows eat human flesh?? This is because ones intrinsic nature can never be changed. Your true nature cannot be fully known in this world. What will happen to a man who only prays for materialistic pleasures and does not desire God ,God will naturally give me whatever he wants after liberation. That man desires only wealth and not Godhead. This sort of a man goes to Santhanaloka .Politicians who like killing and robbing people will get a chance to do the same thing after they are liberated from the cycle of births and deaths and will fall into eternal Tamas from which liberation is impossible as they do not want it. A Sattvic person desires God and nothing else and he attains Vaikuntha and other spirtual planets after being liberated. So justice is served in all cases. The earth is an exam room which allows Sattvikas ,Rajasikas and Tamasikas to interact with each other to fulfill their Karma. All may have either of the three traits but the question is which one preponderates! Can you imagine Veerapan or Osama Bin laden in Heaven??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 SrImad-BhAgavatam (1.7.5): yayA sammohito jIva AtmAnaM tri-guNAtmakam paro 'pi manute 'narthaM tat-kRtaM cAbhipadyate "Due to this external energy, the living entity, although transcendental to the three modes of material nature, thinks of himself as a material product and thus undergoes the reactions of material miseries." sattva-saGgAd RSIn devAn rajasAsura-mAnuSAn tamasA bhUta-tiryaktvaM bhrAmito yAti karmabhiH sattva-saGgAt--by association with the mode of goodness; RSIn--to the sages; devAn--to the demigods; rajasA--by the mode of passion; asura--to the demons; mAnuSAn--and to human beings; tamasA--by the mode of ignorance; bhUta--to the ghostly spirits; tiryaktvam--or the animal kingdom; bhrAmitaH--made to wander; yAti--he goes; karmabhiH--because of his fruitive activities. Made to wander because of his fruitive work, the conditioned soul, by contact with the mode of goodness, takes birth among the sages or demigods. By contact with the mode of passion he becomes a demon or human being, and by association with the mode of ignorance he takes birth as a ghost or in the animal kingdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Jesus described them like this: J ohn 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Yes, good verse. I've also heard that verse translated as "Realms." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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