Karma is useless.....(from past lives)

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Do you people not realize that when we suffer krsna suffers with us, our pain is his pain, that is what draws me to my lord bhagavan sri-krsna that is why we have the ability to choose to come to him or not, he come to us to provide support only if we look with our hearts eye.

An aspect of the Godhead may suffer, namely the jiva who exists in the realm of the tatastha shakti or marginal potency of the lord.

"The Vedas, like the Mundaka Upanisad, as well as the Svetasvatara Upanisad, compare the soul and the Supersoul to two friendly birds sitting on the same tree. One of the birds (the individual atomic soul) is eating the fruit of the tree, and the other bird (Krsna) is simply watching His friend. Of these two birds--although they are the same in quality--one is captivated by the fruits of the material tree, while the other is simply witnessing the activities of His friend. ...Although they are friends, one is still the master and the other is the servant. Forgetfulness of this relationship by the atomic soul is the cause of one's changing his position from one tree to another or from one body to another. The jiva soul is struggling very hard on the tree of the material body, but as soon as he agrees to accept the other bird as the supreme spiritual master--as Arjuna agreed to do by voluntary surrender unto Krsna for instruction--the subordinate bird immediately becomes free from all lamentations. ...Although the two birds are in the same tree, the eating bird is fully engrossed with anxiety and moroseness as the enjoyer of the fruits of the tree. But if in some way or other he turns his face to his friend who is the Lord and knows His glories--at once the suffering bird becomes free from all anxieties."

Bhagavad-gita 2:22 Purport

You should know that there are many kinds of jivas. Some are coming from Baladeva Prabhu in Goloka Vrndavana, and they are serving Radha and Krsna conjugal eternally. They have not seen or realized this material world. Some jivas are coming from Baladeva in Dvaraka, and they are serving Krsna in His form of Dvarakadhisa Some are coming from His manifestation called Maha-Sankarsana, and they are serving in Vaikuntha. They are serving incarnations like Vaikunthesvara Narayana, Sri Ramacandra, Nrsimhadeva and others. Finally, those who are coming from the incarnation of Maha-Sankarsana known as Karanadakasayi Visnu are in the marginal (tatastha) region.

We have all come from there, not from Goloka. Those who have received and tasted the service of Krsna can never fall down. They cannot become conditioned souls. If one has gone there by developing bhakti from sraddha all the way to prema, how can he fall down? There is no Mahamaya in Goloka; only Yogamaya. She will always help the devotees, and therefore there is no question of forgetting Krsna there.

The conditioned souls have come from the marginal line – from the illuminated glance of Karanadakasayi Visnu. The realized souls coming from Baladeva Prabhu, the kayavyuha (bodily expansions) of Radhika, and also the conditioned souls, are all parts and parcels of Krsna. Krsna has so much unconditional love and causeless mercy towards all living entities. He cannot tolerate to see us suffering the miseries of adhyatmika (bodily or mental), adhibhautika (caused by others) and adhidaivika (caused by nature and the demigods). Even if you are wealthy, healthy, possessed of all good qualities and have a very high position, you'll have to become old one day. All you beautiful ladies and men will be forced to grow old, and one day you will have to die. You cannot take a single farthing from this world; not even a hair from your head. The only thing you may take with you is some sukrti, or pure bhakti; otherwise you leave with nothing.

Undoubtedly, Krsna is causelessly merciful. He cannot tolerate the suffering of His minute parts, the jivas, who are His eternal servants. If we worldly people don't want our children to suffer, then how can Krsna tolerate the suffering of the jivas? He mercifully descends Himself, and sometimes He comes as His incarnations like Rama, Nrsimha, Kalki, Vamana, and so on. Jesus Christ is also a messenger of God.

Sometimes Krsna comes Himself with all His associates. He displays poignant and heart-breaking pastimes as Rama, and sometimes He manifests the pastimes of Nrsimha Bhagavan who, in a moment, killed a person who had a boon not to die in the day or night, by any weapon or any mantra, or in the sea, sky or land. He was killed in a moment – because he tried to torture a bhakta like Prahlada. If anyone commits an offence or acts neglectfully to the Vaisnavas, Krsna will come in some way. Sometimes He sends His Sudarsana-cakra as He did to protect Ambarisa Maharaja, sometimes He appears as Nrsimhadeva and sometimes as Sri Rama.

Los Angeles May 10 2003

So the Lord knows of our pain but he does not necessarily "feel" it.

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

[mawab]

submit to karmic purification through bhakti or submit to yamaraja?

 

what's it going to be?

[stymvjyt]

The disconnect to past lives is necessary so that we may do the necessary work in this life. If we knew of the past life, it would affect the proper work to be done in this life.

[Guest guest]

 

You're not serious, are you? You received many detailed replies. The ones you listed above are simply the replies to your angry and insulting replies.

 

 

 

That is not true. I did mention in one reply that you were behaving irrationally, (to our replies.) The other quotes which you attribute to me were not made by me. But it appears that because I have kindly taken the time to reply to your last few posts, you have somehow selected me to be your personal whipping boy.

 

I'm sorry that I have been such a disappointment to you. I will take this as my cue to humbly bow out of this conversation. Good luck in your quest.

 

 

Ok One last time let me ask you this.You talk about GOLOKA and Swarga and all that,what is the proof that these exist?What is the proof we all had past births and the soul exists?What is the proof that its not just brain that controls us but the soul does?

If you dont even see or get a glimpse of Krsna why do you believe in his existence.(Same applies to all GODS)

You see all religious message boards and followers question the existence of their rival religions,but so far no one has bothered to think where is the proof of the stories of glories of their own lords.This is why i mention the stories here as fantasy,not to insult,for example take the Aswathama 6000 yr old story,what do you want to name it as?

[Guest guest]

No one is questioning other religions here. Some people question some of the details, but in general you will find that practicioners who follow the Gaudiya path are not only tolerant of others paths but see the truth in those paths as well.

 

The proof you are looking for (or not) is not to be found empirically and it is not something that can be objectively verified. It is subjective truth - subjective in the sense that the proof is the subject and we are the objects. We can only know if he wills us to know. You cannot capture what is beyond the mind and senses with the limited mind.

 

Having said that - you may also know that there is a process by which one can begin to get a glimpse of the proof. It is much like the sun - the sun is independent. You cannot live deep beneath the earth and have any tangible 'proof' of it's existence. But if you come to the surface and stand where there is no obstruction from your view, you will get a glimpse of the sun. In the same way, if you prepare your consciousness by right thoughts, right deeds, meditation, yoga, selfless service and so many other types of conscious actions you will be putting yourself in the position to get a glimpse of the proof.

 

So many people can tell you that they have behaved in a certain way and engaged in certain spiritual practices and that the outcome is that they have inner vision but that won't 'prove' anything to you. Even if you thoroughly trust someone as impeccably honest and they tell you that it won't convince you because you don't have the conscious experience.

 

But that experience is there for anyone who seriously seeks it. It is not some cheap and easy thing however. It is the most valuable commodity and only those willing to pay the price can obtain it. Everyone has the bank balance to afford it, but not everyone is willing to spend it for this attainment.

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends

 

Simple logic tells us that there is definitely something ,some law , some power,which keeps the planets in their orbits, the plants to grow and the water to flow. Like u ask a question "why does a plant grow?,why does the water flow?" its very difficlut to get an answer.Yes science can tell us how the plant grows by talking about cell division or that the flow of water is due to gravity".But if u go on questioning a final big WHY will stare at over face...

 

I really empathise with errr...Mr.Guest who is asking an explanation why good people suffer and bad people enjoy. And I have found quite a no of people replying and trying to give an answer.With due respect to all I stand by Mr.Guest and tell that nobody's given a convincing reply. Because nobody can...for, the more you try to reply the more questions will arise.

 

And even the law of karma like "reap what u sow" also does not give a convincing reply to the questions relting to memories of past birth etc.Yes the garuda purana states that the embryo in the mothers womb remembers all its previous births but forgets everyting the moment it comes to this world.

[Guest guest]

 

Dear Friends

 

Simple logic tells us that there is definitely something ,some law , some power,which keeps the planets in their orbits, the plants to grow and the water to flow. Like u ask a question "why does a plant grow?,why does the water flow?" its very difficlut to get an answer.Yes science can tell us how the plant grows by talking about cell division or that the flow of water is due to gravity".But if u go on questioning a final big WHY will stare at over face...

 

I really empathise with errr...Mr.Guest who is asking an explanation why good people suffer and bad people enjoy. And I have found quite a no of people replying and trying to give an answer.With due respect to all I stand by Mr.Guest and tell that nobody's given a convincing reply. Because nobody can...for, the more you try to reply the more questions will arise.

 

And even the law of karma like "reap what u sow" also does not give a convincing reply to the questions relting to memories of past birth etc.Yes the garuda purana states that the embryo in the mothers womb remembers all its previous births but forgets everyting the moment it comes to this world.

 

Continuation of the above...

 

isnt the entire purpose defeated then? it does seem that way...

 

The entire purpose of all the scriptures, science, religion is to make us realise that GOD is not different from us. We are GOD. Realise that u are not a mere speck of dust but the supreme intelligence itself.

I want to put down a true experience of my life here...i might invite suspicion, mockery etc in the hands of more devoted bhaktas here but still i put it down...

"a long time back, i came home exhausted after playing in the hot sun the whole day...i was tired to the core and after a bath just slept" I had an experience which is difficult to explain coz it was very momentary...there was light and all my doubts were cleared...if u ask what were my doubts or questions ,i dont know" i just felt i know everyhting...i mean i really cant express it, it was maybe for a fraction of a second but it lasts in my memory"

 

Now back to the subject...as i say we will never know the answers to these questions, never. The biggest question is the origin of ego...the feeling of seperateness from the supreme? I had asked a swamiji this question someime back...how did the ego originate? or the better question is WHY DID THE EGO ORIGINATE?...he said u only know it...you cant tell it...coz its not explainable by words. this fact which he told me i co related to my experience whih iam not able to tell clearly.

 

So sum and substance of all these is (for Mr.Guest) your questions are genuine and perfect...but just that dont seek the answers from others...keep questioning yourself ...always ....and you will get the answer...and the answer would likely be that there was no question at all i nthe first place....

I know what i write might be confusing...,but had god been accesible to the mind of man...God would have been confined within the capacities of the human mind...which is not true...

Good day everybody...

[Guest guest]

 

No one is questioning other religions here. Some people question some of the details, but in general you will find that practicioners who follow the Gaudiya path are not only tolerant of others paths but see the truth in those paths as well.

 

The proof you are looking for (or not) is not to be found empirically and it is not something that can be objectively verified. It is subjective truth - subjective in the sense that the proof is the subject and we are the objects. We can only know if he wills us to know. You cannot capture what is beyond the mind and senses with the limited mind.

 

Having said that - you may also know that there is a process by which one can begin to get a glimpse of the proof. It is much like the sun - the sun is independent. You cannot live deep beneath the earth and have any tangible 'proof' of it's existence. But if you come to the surface and stand where there is no obstruction from your view, you will get a glimpse of the sun. In the same way, if you prepare your consciousness by right thoughts, right deeds, meditation, yoga, selfless service and so many other types of conscious actions you will be putting yourself in the position to get a glimpse of the proof.

 

So many people can tell you that they have behaved in a certain way and engaged in certain spiritual practices and that the outcome is that they have inner vision but that won't 'prove' anything to you. Even if you thoroughly trust someone as impeccably honest and they tell you that it won't convince you because you don't have the conscious experience.

 

But that experience is there for anyone who seriously seeks it. It is not some cheap and easy thing however. It is the most valuable commodity and only those willing to pay the price can obtain it. Everyone has the bank balance to afford it, but not everyone is willing to spend it for this attainment.

 

I dont think u have read all postings in this forum,there r a lot of cases where people have made fun of Islam and Christianity,that is y i pointed that out,ofcourse as i said they must be doing that in their forums as well,no one is perfect,so lets not dwelve on that.

As far as Goloka and all that being subjective proof,if it is so then how come ur so sure that such thing exists,if u say the lord needs to bless to u believe it and understand it then how can u say its a common thing that applies to one and all,moreover how can u or anyone for that matter ignore other theories about the god,what if u start thinking u should believe so and so god exists,take Jesus for tha matter(im not a believer that he was god etc,i believe someone called Jesus might have lived and died thats all)they too say the same that u need to have faith and blessing to know the lord,so would u accept that?Just because so and so is born in one faith y should that person back it and fight for it as if we ve felt it or been there ourselves.

Its easy to play with words and come up with abstract terms like Object,Subject etc,but when it comes to talks like the god has sudarsan chakra and god can lift mountains etc,what do u categorise that?Object and Subject theory or exaggarated fantasy or fact?

[Guest guest]

In general, you will find that traditions that have the vedas as their primary source of revelation are not only more tolerant of others beliefs but that they can see the truth in others practices and traditions. That doesn't mean that everyone who follows a particular path will behave the same or have the same outlook - it is a broad generalization.

 

I don't think anyone should back anything or fight for anything based on heredity. As far as personal development goes I think each human being should seek to understand who they are, what their relationship to others is and what their highest potential is. Life should be progressive. It should also be lived simply, honestly and with integrity. The 'fruits' of the spirit are enunciated by all spiritual traditions. These are generally universally accepted as desirable qualities. Qualities such as tolerance, kindness, control of the mind and senses, patience, gravity, truthfulness, etc. are all qualities that one should expect to begin to manifest through the practice of spiritual discipline. Furthermore, a persons heart should become softened and they should become kind to all living beings and begin to resonate with the suffering of others.

 

I am not trying to confuse you or obfuscate a very simple and direct answer to your question. You want to know why you should believe. I simply say you shouldn't blindly believe anything. My point about subjective/objective is simply this: God is not knowable through the medium of the mind or senses. He is known as adhoksaja - or unknowable and unknown. He is in the position to reveal himself or not to whomever you chooses. What I meant by everyone has the capital to purchase a glimpse of the truth is that everyone has free will and everyone can spend their time as they please. It is rare for an individual to dedicate their life fully - their words, deeds, thoughts - everything in service to God. For those who desire to do so and who practice with determination and dedication they will be given a glimpse. How do I know it is so? First off, God promises that as souls approach him he reciprocates with them accordingly. Krsna also told Arjuna that he could only be seen as he was standing before him by those who have deep love for him. That love is developed over time by commitment, service, surrender etc. On top of that I have my own subjective experiences and glimpses that confirm the words of saints and Krsna.

 

At any rate - the bottom line from my perspective is that if you truly wish to know then you will have to humble yourself and accept the fact that you can only know through the grace of God.

[Guest guest]

OK.....I'M THE ORIGINAL TOPIC STARTER

 

since my last post, the mother of the crippled child has died. Now it is just the father and child left alone.

 

I'm waiting for the answer to my question: WHY ISN'T THIS DEVOTEE ALLOWED TO REMEMBER HIS PAST MISTAKES WHICH ARE NOW CAUSING HIS SUFFERING?

 

I am not DEMANDING an answer...I am not IRRATIONAL...I am not DENYING Krishna.

 

There has to be an answer in the sastras somewhere....if not, then Krishna Counsciousness is not complete....it is just as irrational as christianity.

 

WHY IS THE PRISONER NOT ALLOWED TO REMEMBER HIS MISTAKE?

[Guest guest]

 

OK.....I'M THE ORIGINAL TOPIC STARTER

 

since my last post, the mother of the crippled child has died. Now it is just the father and child left alone.

 

I'm waiting for the answer to my question: WHY ISN'T THIS DEVOTEE ALLOWED TO REMEMBER HIS PAST MISTAKES WHICH ARE NOW CAUSING HIS SUFFERING?

 

I am not DEMANDING an answer...I am not IRRATIONAL...I am not DENYING Krishna.

 

There has to be an answer in the sastras somewhere....if not, then Krishna Counsciousness is not complete....it is just as irrational as christianity.

 

WHY IS THE PRISONER NOT ALLOWED TO REMEMBER HIS MISTAKE?

 

I think the law of Karma is very mechanical and exact to the point. If we remember our past mistakes becasue of which we are suffering, then it will reduce our suffering by way of some kind of solace that the suffering is not unwarranted. But since the law of Karma gives a 9 for a 9, it wants you to suffer exactly as the suffering you gave - to cause the exact impression which you might have caused - as a learning experience. The only other way out is to seek help from someone who has power over Karma.

[Guest guest]

 

I'm waiting for the answer to my question

 

From what I've read, the answers have already been given. Perhaps you find them unsatisfactory because you have yet to meet us half-way. Please give us your answers to these questions first, then maybe we can make some progress?

 

1) Why do we have to die? After all, death is the ultimate suffering.

 

2) Why do we have to take birth? Birth is obviously a form of intense suffering. The child in the womb becomes conscious of previous lives, but forgets everything due to the trauma of taking birth.

 

3) Why do we have to grow old? Why can't we stay young forever?

 

4) Why do we become ill and diseased?

 

5) We suffer every day of our lives in one degree or another, whether it's a stubbed toe or catching a cold, or heartburn, working with obnoxious co-workers, paying high prices at the gas pumps, depression, insomnia, divorce, mosquito bites, hair loss, psoriasis, obesity, you name it... the list goes on forever.

 

Why?

[Guest guest]

STILL NO ANSWERS.....

 

why aren't we ALLOWED to remember?

 

we born, suffer , die according to our KARMA....I SEE THAT, I UNDERSTAND THAT

 

but WHY are we not given even a slight chance to remember our past lives....I wan't to see the mistakes to correct them.

[gHari]

Well, first a little internet etiquette: capitalizing words is considered shouting on the internet. That perhaps makes you sound more angry than you are.

 

However, even without the caps, you still sound angry and we all know from Bhagavad-gita that after attachment leads to lust then anger, the result is bewilderment of the senses and finally loss of intelligence. Some credibl answers were presented but you could not understand. I suggest that if you can gain some detachment and let go of the anger you may be able to understand what has been said from a higher vantage point.

 

I think that what you are learning here is humility - that God's way of purifying our relationship with Him is not quite as simple, as black and white as our little minds want it to be. God and His kindness are simply beyond our understanding as finite creatures.

 

What have the people learned from their tragedies? Humility? Surrender? Hatred of God? It's all much more complicated than our clever minds would like to think.

 

Spread out over billions of lifetimes, who can say what effect our relative ups and downs will have? Scripture encourages us to see everything as God's mercy. When I stub my toe I immediately stop and center on Krsna knowing that something is wrong. The more attached or wrong I am, the more it takes to get my attention and snap me out of my foolishness.

 

As far as remembering previous lives' sins, I don't doubt that in our dreams we are again tested with previous challenges that we failed before. All these impressions from billions of lives make up our character. Zillions of stored impressions in our subtle bodies form the Gestalt of our ahankara identity. Whether or not we are conscious of why or not, some kids will be terrors and others angels. It's just where they are, and new impressions in this life will further massage their character toward perfection.

 

We see the sum total of our impressions, not each number that forms the total. That sum total is our false-ego. More numbers will be added to it again in this life, making a new sum total character for the next life. Or if we can somehow add infinity to that sum total, the ahankara figure will become zero, revealing our fortune in the Kingdom of God thereby requiring no further massaging of our total false character.

 

As far as seeing previous mistakes: firstly, I'm not sure we could live with ourselves if we could see some of our past evils; and secondly, I'm not sure we ourselves are capable of doing a better job than Krsna of fixing the problems. Our meddling in His plan might well just create unnecessary chaos and more problems.

 

None of this will help you. You can only know what is good for the living entity and help your friends follow the path of bhakti. All you can say is "I don't know why we're here, but I know where we must go". That is being their best friend. It's time to move on to tears of joy.

[gHari]

Sri Brahma-Samhita 5.23:

 

<center>

saJjAto bhagavac-chaktyA

tat-kAlaM kila coditaH

sisRkSAyAM matiM cakre

pUrva-<B>saMskAra</b>-saMskRtaH

dadarza kevalaM dhvAntaM

nAnyat kim api sarvataH

</center>

saJjAtaH--on being born; bhagavat-zaktyA--by the divine potency; tat-kAlam--at that time; kila--indeed; coditaH--being guided; sisRkSAyAm--to the act of creation; matim--his mind; cakre--turned;

pUrva-saMskAra-saMskRtaH

--under the impulse of previous impressions; dadarza--he saw; kevalam--only; dhvAntam--darkness; na--not; anyat--else; kim api--anything; sarvataH--in every direction.

On coming out of the lotus, BrahmA, being guided by the divine potency tuned his mind to the act of creation under the impulse of previous impressions. But he could see nothing but darkness in every direction.

 

PURPORT

 

BrahmA's impulse for creation arises solely from his previous impressions. All jIvas get their nature conformably to their impressions of previous births and accordingly their activity can have a beginning. It is called "the unseen" or the result of one's previous deeds. His natural impulse is formed according to the nature of the deeds done by him in the previous kalpa. Some of the eligible jIvas also attain to the office of BrahmA in this way.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

STILL NO ANSWERS.....

 

why aren't we ALLOWED to remember?

 

we born, suffer , die according to our KARMA....I SEE THAT, I UNDERSTAND THAT

 

but WHY are we not given even a slight chance to remember our past lives....I wan't to see the mistakes to correct them.

 

it's not always about past mistakes and past sins.

sometimes it's just the plan of God to teach us the futility in trying to be happy in this material world.

sometimes, what appears to be reactions to sins is actually the blessings of God upon pious souls who mean well but have material attachments.

 

Don't even try to sort it our or understand it.

Just accept whatever comes your way as the MERCY of God who is trying to direct you towards the right direction back to him.

 

this karma thing is highly over-hyped.

More often than not, for pious souls who believe in God, what is happening to them is not Karma but direct intervention by God to try and frustrate their material desires and lead them to the spiritual light of love in God.

[Guest guest]

We can't even handle the disturbance on our plate in this life, what to speak of past lives. If we could remember all the psycho drama from previous lives we'd all be in a far worse correctional institution than we are here now.

Sufficient unto this life is the crime and sin herein, lets' not try to regurgitate the memories of the time we ate someone else's baby as an eagle or shark, or perhaps you were an abortionist, what if you were Hitler or one of his cronies, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, perhaps we were a rapist, or serial murderer, who in their right mind would want to delve into that database.

Who needs the memories. If we have the grace of the Lord and the kindness of guru to solve the problem through chanting their Holy Names, then by engaging in the positive, the negativity of the past will automaticly dissolve.

Just accept that Krsna can remember everything as He states, and we can't for a good reason, that's his mercy.

[Guest guest]

Ok...sorry for the "SHOUTING"...i did not realize capital letters had such an effect. I was only trying to emphasize some key words.

 

anyway.....i'm still waiting for scriptural proof?

 

any proof at all. Some say remembering would be too much of a burden. Well....show me the proof where Krishna says "you would go crazy if I let you remember"

 

just looking for direct evidence...no speculation. I see many verses being quoted, but none answer the question.

[gHari]

Why not look for some? Maybe an internet search for 'karma'?

[Guest guest]

If we had memories of past lives, the world would be Hindu. I'll ask the Hare Krishnas members to not stone me for my use of the word Hindu. But you know what I mean. Because most outside a few eastern countries and some semi-enlightened westerners in New Age sects, do not know about past lives, they do not even consider their suffering in this life may be do to past lives or that they may be caught in a drama of many lifetimes.

 

According to some gnostic teachings, the loss of memory is due to us being stuck in this Matrix-reality, where we are cut off from any higher-awareness or knowledge of our true Self. The Matrix wants to keep its hold over us, so it does not let us see our predicament. The Matrix can be seen as Maya. Perhaps it is our Karma to suffer and forget though. Since we would probably not suffer the same if we knew the real reason why we were suffering. Tho sometimes I agree with the gnostics that something more sinister may be at play in our forgetfulness. I guess I'll (we'll) only really know the Whys when we break free of this ignorant realm.

[gHari]

Srimad Bhagavatam 11.22.35-53:

 

<center>

zrI-uddhava uvAca

tvattaH parAvRtta-dhiyaH

sva-kRtaiH karmabhiH prabho

uccAvacAn yathA dehAn

gRhNanti visRjanti ca

tan mamAkhyAhi govinda

durvibhAvyam anAtmabhiH

na hy etat prAyazo loke

vidvAMsaH santi vaJcitAH

</center>

zrI-uddhavaH uvAca--SrI Uddhava said; tvattaH--from You; parAvRtta--diverted; dhiyaH--whose minds; sva-kRtaiH--done by them; karmabhiH--by the fruitive activities; prabho--O supreme master; ucca-avacAn--higher and lower; yathA--in which way; dehAn--material bodies; gRhNanti--they accept; visRjanti--give up; ca--and; tat--that; mama--to me; AkhyAhi--please explain; govinda--O Govinda; durvibhAvyam--impossible to understand; anAtmabhiH--by those who are not intelligent; na--not; hi--indeed; etat--about this; prAyazaH--for the most part; loke--in this world; vidvAMsaH--knowledgeable; santi--they are; vaJcitAH--who are cheated (by material illusion).

SrI Uddhava said: O supreme master, the intelligence of those dedicated to fruitive activities is certainly deviated from You. Please explain to me how such persons accept superior and inferior bodies by their materialistic activities and then give up such bodies. O Govinda, this topic is very difficult for foolish persons to understand. Being cheated by illusion in this world, they generally do not become aware of these facts.

 

 

No one can be considered intelligent without understanding the science of God, which includes a description of the negative results of those who have forgotten their eternal relationship with Him. There are many so-called wise men in the world, but although considering themselves to be most intelligent, they generally do not surrender to the supreme intelligence of the Lord. Thus they concoct varieties of philosophies according to their positions within the modes of nature. However, one cannot escape the influence of material nature through philosophy generated from that same illusory nature. Liberation is achieved by perfect knowledge coming from the spiritual platform, the kingdom of God. By faithfully hearing from Lord KRSNa and His authorized representatives one can easily achieve liberation and go back home, back to Godhead.

 

 

 

<center>

zrI-bhagavAn uvAca

manaH karma-mayaM NRRNAm

indriyaiH paJcabhir yutam

lokAl lokaM prayAty anya

AtmA tad anuvartate

</center>

zrI-bhagavAn uvAca--the Supreme Personality of Godhead said; manaH--the mind; karma-mayam--shaped by fruitive work; nRRNAm--of persons; indriyaiH--along with the senses; paJcabhiH--five; yutam--conjoined; lokAt--from one world; lokam--to another world; prayAti--travels; anyaH--separate; AtmA--the soul; tat--that mind; anuvartate--follows.

Lord KRSNa said: The material mind of men is shaped by the reactions of fruitive work. Along with the five senses, it travels from one material body to another. The spirit soul, although different from this mind, follows it.

 

 

<center>

dhyAyan mano 'nu viSayAn

dRSTAn vAnuzrutAn atha

udyat sIdat karma-tantraM

smRtis tad anu zAmyati

</center>

dhyAyat--meditating; manaH--the mind; anu--regularly; viSayAn--on the sense objects; dRSTAn--seen; vA--or; anuzrutAn--heard from Vedic authority; atha--subsequently; udyat--rising; sIdat--dissolving; karma-tantram--bound to the reactions of fruitive work; smRtiH--remembrance; tat anu--after that; zAmyati--is destroyed.

The mind, bound to the reactions of fruitive work, always meditates on the objects of the senses, both those that are seen in this world and those that are heard about from Vedic authority. Consequently, the mind appears to come into being and to suffer annihilation along with its objects of perception, and thus its ability to distinguish past and future is lost.

 

 

One may ask how the subtle body, or mind, gives up its connection with one physical body and enters another. Such entering and leaving of physical bodies is called birth and death by conditioned souls. One utilizes his present senses to meditate on the visible objects of this world--beautiful women, palatial estates, and so on--and similarly one daydreams about the heavenly planets described in the Vedas. As death occurs, the mind is pulled away from the objects of its immediate experience and enters another body to experience a new set of sense objects. As the mind undergoes total reorientation there is the apparent loss of one's previous mentality and creation of a new mind, though actually the same mind is experiencing, but in a different way.

 

 

The conditioned soul is overwhelmed by the constant flow of material experience consisting of direct perception and abstract contemplation of the objects of this world. One thereby loses his transcendental memory of his relationship with God. As soon as one identifies with this world he forgets his eternal identity and surrenders to the false ego created by mAyA.

 

 

 

<center>

viSayAbhinivezena

nAtmAnaM yat smaret punaH

jantor vai kasyacid dhetor

mRtyur atyanta-vismRtiH

</center>

viSaya--in (new) objects of perception; abhinivezena--because of absorption; na--not; AtmAnam--his previous self; yat--the situation in which; smaret--remembers; punaH--any more; jantoH--of the living entity; vai--indeed; kasyacit hetoH--for any reason or other; mRtyuH--known as death; atyanta--total; vismRtiH--forgetfulness.

<h2>When the living entity passes from the present body to the next body, which is created by his own karma, he becomes absorbed in the pleasurable and painful sensations of the new body and completely forgets the experience of the previous body. This total forgetfulness of one's previous material identity, which comes about for one reason or another, is called death.</h2>

Depending on one's karma, or fruitive activities, one may achieve a beautiful, wealthy or powerful body or be degraded to an abominable condition of life.

Taking birth in heaven or in hell, the living entity learns to completely identify his ego with the new body and thus becomes absorbed in the pleasure, fear, opulence or suffering of the new body, completely forgetting the experiences of the previous body. Death occurs when the specific karma allotted to a physical body is finished. Since that particular body's karma is used up, it can no longer act upon one's mind; in that way one forgets the previous body

. The new body is created by nature so that one can experience the karma currently in effect. Consequently one's entire consciousness becomes absorbed in one's current body in order that one can fully experience the results of his previous activities. Because the living entity falsely identifies himself as the body, bodily death is experienced as death of the soul. Actually, however, the soul is eternal and is never subject to creation or annihilation. This analytic knowledge of self-realization is easily understood in KRSNa consciousness.

 

 

 

<center>

janma tv AtmatayA puMsaH

sarva-bhAvena bhUri-da

viSaya-svIkRtiM prAhur

yathA svapna-manorathaH

</center>

janma--birth; tu--and; AtmatayA--by identification with oneself; puMsaH--of a person; sarva-bhAvena--completely; bhUri-da--O most charitable Uddhava; viSaya--of the body; svI-kRtim--the acceptance; prAhuH--is called; yathA--just as; svapna--a dream; manaH-rathaH--or a mental fantasy.

O most charitable Uddhava, what is called birth is simply a person's total identification with a new body. One accepts the new body just as one completely accepts the experience of a dream or a fantasy as reality.

 

 

Identification with one's material body surpasses the mere affection and attachment one feels for the bodies of relatives or friends. The word sarva-bhAvena here shows that one totally accepts the material body to be oneself, just as one completely accepts the experience of a dream as real. Mere imagination without practical action is called a daydream; the mental concoction that occurs in a sleeping state is called a dream. Our identification with our own body and our blind acceptance of bodily relationships as permanent constitute a prolonged form of dreaming or fantasy in which one imagines oneself to be separate from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The term birth, therefore, does not refer to the generation of a new entity but to the blind acceptance by the spirit soul of a new material body.

 

 

 

<center>

svapnaM manorathaM cetthaM

prAktanaM na smaraty asau

tatra pUrvam ivAtmAnam

apUrvam cAnupazyati

</center>

svapnam--a dream; manaH-ratham--a daydream; ca--and; ittham--thus; prAktanam--previous; na smarati--does not remember; asau--he; tatra--in that (present body); pUrvam--the previous; iva--as if; AtmAnam--himself; apUrvam--having no past; ca--and; anupazyati--he views.

<h2>Just as a person experiencing a dream or daydream does not remember his previous dreams or daydreams, a person situated in his present body, although having existed prior to it, thinks that he has only recently come into being.</h2>

<B>The objection may be raised that sometimes when experiencing a dream one actually remembers a previous dream. SrIla VizvanAtha CakravartI ThAkura replies that by the mystic power of jAti-smara one can remember one's previous body, and as is well known, "The exception establishes the rule." Normally, conditioned souls do not perceive their past existence; they think, "I am six years old" or "I am thirty years old," and "previous to this birth I did not exist." In such material ignorance one cannot understand the actual situation of the soul.</b>

 

 

 

<center>

indriyAyana-sRSTyedaM

trai-vidhyaM bhAti vastuni

bahir-antar-bhidA-hetur

jano 'saj-jana-kRd yathA

</center>

indriya-ayana--by the resting place of the senses (the mind); sRSTyA--because of the creation (of identification with a new body); idam--this; trai-vidhyam--threefold variety (of high, middle and low class); bhAti--appears; vastuni--in the reality (the soul); bahiH--external; antaH--and internal; bhidA--of the differences; hetuH--the cause; janaH--a person; asat-jana--of a bad person; kRt--the progenitor; yathA--as.

Because the mind, which is the resting place of the senses, has created the identification with a new body, the threefold material variety of high, middle and low class appears as if present within the reality of the soul. Thus the self creates external and internal duality, just as a man might give birth to a bad son.

 

 

The wealth, beauty, strength, intelligence, fame and detachment of different bodies are considered to be excellent, normal or inferior according to the material situation. The spirit soul acquires a particular body and thus judges himself and others to be high, middle or low class according to their material situation. Actually, the eternal soul exists beyond material duality but falsely mistakes the material situation to be his own. The words asaj-jana-kRd yathA are significant. A father may by nature be peaceful, but because his bad son gets into trouble the father is forced to defend his son and consider his son's enemies to be enemies of the entire family. Thus the bad son implicates the father in troublesome conflicts. Similarly, the spirit soul has no intrinsic problems, but by creating a false identification with the material body the soul becomes involved in the happiness and distress of the body. With this verse the Lord summarizes His discussion of the difference between the body and the soul.

 

 

 

<center>

nityadA hy aGga bhUtAni

bhavanti na bhavanti ca

kAlenAlakSya-vegena

sUkSmatvAt tan na dRzyate

</center>

nityadA--constantly; hi--indeed; aGga--My dear Uddhava; bhUtAni--created bodies; bhavanti--come into being; na bhavanti--go out of being; ca--and; kAlena--by time; alakSya--imperceptible; vegena--whose speed; sUkSmatvAt--because of being very subtle; tat--that; na dRzyate--is not seen.

My dear Uddhava, material bodies are constantly undergoing creation and destruction by the force of time, whose swiftness is imperceptible. But because of the subtle nature of time, no one sees this.

 

 

<center>

yathArciSAM srotasAM ca

phalAnAM vA vanaspateH

tathaiva sarva-bhUtAnAM

vayo-'vasthAdayaH kRtAH

</center>

yathA--as; arciSAm--of the flames of a candle; srotasAm--of the currents of a river; ca--and; phalAnAm--of fruits; vA--or; vanaspateH--of a tree; tathA--thus; eva--certainly; sarva-bhUtAnAm--of all material bodies; vayaH--of different ages; avasthA--situations; AdayaH--and so on; kRtAH--are created.

The different stages of transformation of all material bodies occur just like those of the flame of a candle, the current of a river, or the fruits of a tree.

 

 

The wavering flame of a candle sometimes waxes brightly and again becomes weak. Finally it vanishes altogether. The waves of a flowing river rise and fall, creating innumerable shapes and patterns. The fruits of a tree gradually take birth, grow, ripen, sweeten and eventually rot and die. Similarly, one can easily understand that one's own body is undergoing constant transformation, and that the body is certainly subject to old age, disease and death. At different times of life the body exhibits degrees of sexual potency, physical strength, desire, wisdom and so on. As the body grows old, physical strength diminishes, but one's knowledge may increase even as the body undergoes such transformation.

 

Material birth and death occur within the realm of segmented time. The birth, creation or production of a material object immediately connects it with a segmented sequence of subtle time within the material world. Thus its destruction or death is inevitable. The irresistible force of time moves so subtly that only the most intelligent can perceive it. Just as the candle flame gradually diminishes, as the flowing currents move within the river or as fruits gradually ripen on a tree, the material body is steadily moving toward inevitable death. The temporary body should therefore never be confused with the eternal, unchanging spirit soul.

 

 

 

<center>

so 'yaM dIpo 'rciSAM yadvat

srotasAM tad idaM jalam

so 'yaM pumAn iti nRNAM

mRSA gIr dhIr mRSAyuSAm

</center>

saH--this; ayam--the same; dIpaH--light; arciSAm--of the radiation of a lamp; yadvat--just as; srotasAm--of the currents flowing in a river; tat--that; idam--the same; jalam--water; saH--this; ayam--the same; pumAn--person; iti--thus; nRNAm--of men; mRSA--false; gIH--statement; dhIH--thought; mRSA-AyuSAm--of those who are wasting their life.

Although the illumination of a lamp consists of innumerable rays of light undergoing constant creation, transformation and destruction, a person with illusory intelligence who sees the light for a moment will speak falsely, saying, "This is the light of the lamp." As one observes a flowing river, ever-new water passes by and goes far away, yet a foolish person, observing one point in the river, falsely states, "This is the water of the river." Similarly, although the material body of a human being is constantly undergoing transformation, those who are simply wasting their lives falsely think and say that each particular stage of the body is the person's real identity

 

 

Although one may say, "This is the light of the lamp," there are innumerable rays of light being created, transformed and destroyed at every moment; and although one may speak of the water of the river, there is an ever-new supply of different water molecules passing by. Similarly, when one meets a young child, one accepts that particular transitory phase of the body as the actual identity of the person, considering him to be a child. One also considers an old body to be an old person. In fact, however, the material body of a human being, just like the waves of a river or the radiation of a lamp, is merely a transformation of the three modes of material nature, the potency of the Supreme Lord. The real identity of a person is spirit soul, part and parcel of Lord KRSNa, but as Lord KRSNa proves in this verse, a conditioned soul is incapable of observing or understanding the subtle movements of time. With the gross vision of material consciousness one cannot ascertain the subtle segments of material manifestation, which are impelled by the Lord Himself as time. The word mRSAyuSAm in this verse indicates those who are uselessly wasting their time in ignorance without understanding the instructions of the Lord. Such persons gullibly accept any particular phase of the body to be the actual identity of the spirit soul within the body. Because the spirit soul is not subject to material transformation, when he engages himself in the eternal variegated pleasure of KRSNa consciousness, loving service to the Supreme Lord, he will experience no further ignorance and suffering.

 

 

 

<center>

mA svasya karma-bIjena

jAyate so 'py ayaM pumAn

mriyate vAmaro bhrAntyA

yathAgnir dAru-saMyutaH

</center>

mA--does not; svasya--of the self; karma-bIjena--by the seed of his activities; jAyate--take birth; saH--he; api--indeed; ayam--this; pumAn--personality; mriyate--dies; vA--or; amaraH--immortal; bhrAntyA--because of illusion; yathA--as; agniH--fire; dAru--with wood; saMyutaH--joined.

A person does not actually take birth out of the seed of past activities, nor, being immortal, does he die. By illusion the living being appears to be born and to die, just as fire in connection with firewood appears to begin and then cease to exist.

 

 

The element fire exists perpetually within the material creation, but in connection with a particular piece of wood fire apparently comes into existence and ceases to exist. Similarly, the living entity is eternal, but in connection with a particular body apparently takes birth and dies. The reactions of karma thus impose an illusory suffering or enjoyment upon the living entity, but they do not cause the entity himself to change his eternal nature. In other words, karma represents a cycle of illusion in which each illusory activity produces another. KRSNa consciousness stops this cycle of karma by engaging the living being in spiritual activities in the loving service of the Lord. By such KRSNa consciousness one can escape the illusory chain of fruitive reactions.

 

 

 

<center>

niSeka-garbha-janmAni

bAlya-kaumAra-yauvanam

vayo-madhyaM jarA mRtyur

ity avasthAs tanor nava

</center>

niSeka--impregnation; garbha--gestation; janmAni--and birth; bAlya--infancy; kaumAra--childhood; yauvanam--and youth; vayaH-madhyam--middle age; jarA--old age; mRtyuH--death; iti--thus; avasthAH--ages; tanoH--of the body; nava--nine.

Impregnation, gestation, birth, infancy, childhood, youth, middle age, old age and death are the nine ages of the body.

 

 

<center>

etA manoratha-mayIr

hAnyasyoccAvacAs tanUH

guNa-saGgAd upAdatte

kvacit kazcij jahAti ca

</center>

etAH--these; manaH-rathaH-mayIH--achieved by meditation of the mind; ha--certainly; anyasya--of the body (who is separate from the self); ucca--greater; avacAH--and lesser; tanUH--bodily conditions; guNa-saGgAt--because of associating with the modes of nature; upAdatte--he accepts; kvacit--sometimes; kazcit--someone; jahAti--gives up; ca--and.

Although the material body is different from the self, because of the ignorance due to material association one falsely identifies oneself with the superior and inferior bodily conditions. Sometimes a fortunate person is able to give up such mental concoction.

 

 

One who has received the special mercy of the Supreme Lord is able to give up the mental concoction of bodily identification. Thus there is always a chance of escaping the cycle of birth and death.

 

 

 

<center>

AtmanaH pitR-putrAbhyAm

anumeyau bhavApyayau

na bhavApyaya-vastUnAm

abhijJo dvaya-lakSaNaH

</center>

AtmanaH--one's own; pitR--from the father or ancestors; putrAbhyAm--and the son; anumeyau--can be surmised; bhava--birth; apyayau--and death; na--is no longer; bhava-apyaya-vastUnAm--of all that is subject to generation and destruction; abhijJaH--one who is in proper knowledge; dvaya--by these dualities; lakSaNaH--characterized.

By the death of one's father or grandfather one can surmise one's own death, and by the birth of one's son one can understand the condition of one's own birth. A person who thus realistically understands the creation and destruction of material bodies is no longer subject to these dualities.

 

 

The Lord has described the nine stages of the material body, beginning with impregnation, gestation and birth. One may argue that a living entity cannot remember his presence in the mother's womb nor his birth and early infancy. The Lord therefore states here that one can experience these phases of bodily existence by studying one's own child. Similarly, although one may hope to live forever, by experiencing the death of one's father, grandfather or great-grandfather, one has definite proof that the material body will die. A sober person, knowing the soul to be eternal, therefore gives up false identification with the temporary, unreliable body and takes shelter of the devotional service of the Lord. By this process one can escape the artificial imposition of birth and death.

 

 

 

<center>

taror bIja-vipAkAbhyAM

yo vidvAJ janma-saMyamau

taror vilakSaNo draSTA

evaM draSTA tanoH pRthak

</center>

taroH--of a tree; bIja--(birth from) its seed; vipAkAbhyAm--(destruction subsequent to) maturity; yaH--one who; vidvAn--in knowledge; janma--of birth; saMyamau--and death; taroH--from the tree; vilakSaNaH--distinct; draSTA--the witness; evam--in the same way; draSTA--the witness; tanoH--of the material body; pRThak--is separate.

One who observes the birth of a tree from its seed and the ultimate death of the tree after maturity certainly remains a distinct observer separate from the tree. In the same way, the witness of the birth and death of the material body remains separate from it.

 

 

As a reference to trees, vipAka indicates the final transformation called death. In reference to other types of plants such as rice, vipAka indicates the stage of maturity, in which death also occurs. Thus by common observation one can understand the actual position of one's material body and one's own position as the transcendental observer.

 

 

 

<center>

prakRter evam AtmAnam

avivicyAbudhaH pumAn

tattvena sparza-sammUDhaH

saMsAraM pratipadyate

</center>

prakRteH--from material nature; evam--in this way; AtmAnam--the self; avivicya--failing to distinguish; abudhaH--the unintelligent; pumAn--person; tattvena--because of thinking (material things) to be real; sparza--by material contact; sammUDhaH--completely bewildered; saMsAram--the cycle of material existence; pratipadyate--attains.

An unintelligent man, failing to distinguish himself from material nature, thinks nature to be real. By contact with it he becomes completely bewildered and enters into the cycle of material existence.

 

 

A similar verse is found in SrImad-BhAgavatam (1.7.5):

 

 

yayA sammohito jIva

 

AtmAnaM tri-guNAtmakam

 

paro 'pi manute 'narthaM

 

tat-kRtaM cAbhipadyate

 

 

"Due to this external energy, the living entity, although transcendental to the three modes of material nature, thinks of himself as a material product and thus undergoes the reactions of material miseries."

 

 

<center>

sattva-saGgAd RSIn devAn

rajasAsura-mAnuSAn

tamasA bhUta-tiryaktvaM

bhrAmito yAti karmabhiH

</center>

sattva-saGgAt--by association with the mode of goodness; RSIn--to the sages; devAn--to the demigods; rajasA--by the mode of passion; asura--to the demons; mAnuSAn--and to human beings; tamasA--by the mode of ignorance; bhUta--to the ghostly spirits; tiryaktvam--or the animal kingdom; bhrAmitaH--made to wander; yAti--he goes; karmabhiH--because of his fruitive activities.

Made to wander because of his fruitive work, the conditioned soul, by contact with the mode of goodness, takes birth among the sages or demigods. By contact with the mode of passion he becomes a demon or human being, and by association with the mode of ignorance he takes birth as a ghost or in the animal kingdom.

 

 

The word tiryaktvam means "the status of an animal," which includes all lower forms of life, such as beasts, birds, insects, fish and plants.

 

 

 

<center>

nRtyato gAyataH pazyan

yathaivAnukaroti tAn

evaM buddhi-guNAn pazyann

anIho ‘py anukAryate

</center>

nRtyataH--persons who are dancing; gAyataH--and singing; pazyan--observing; yathA--just as; eva--indeed; anukaroti--imitates; tAn--them; evam--thus; buddhi--of the material intelligence; guNAn--the acquired qualities; pazyan--seeing; anIhaH--although not himself engaged in activity; api--nevertheless; anukAryate--is made to imitate.

Just as one may imitate persons whom one sees dancing and singing, similarly the soul, although never the doer of material activities, becomes captivated by material intelligence and is thus forced to imitate its qualities.

 

 

Sometimes people are captivated by professional singers and dancers and imitate within their minds the musical rhythms and melodies of the performers along with their romantic, humorous or heroic emotions. People sing songs heard on the radio and imitate dances and dramatic performances seen on television or in movies and theaters, entering into the emotions and art of the performer. The conditioned soul is similarly captivated by the concoctions of the material mind and intelligence, which convince him that he can become the enjoyer of the material world. Although different from the material body and never the actual performer of its activities, the conditioned soul is induced to engage his body in material activities, which entangle him in the cycle of birth and death. One should not accept the illicit propositions of material intelligence, but rather should engage himself fully in the service of the Lord in KRSNa consciousness.

 

 

[gHari]

PrabhupAda: Yes. That is karma. KarmaNA, or according to our past karmas, we are in a particular position. So this position can be changed. It is not that it will continue. Therefore KRSNa says that "You are suffering on account of your past misdeeds, the reaction, but this suffering is caused on account of your not surrendering unto Me. Now you surrender. I will stop this reaction of...," ahaM tvAM sarva-pApebhyo [bg. 18.66]. This offer is already there, but still we do not take advantage. That is our dog's obstinacy, and we are suffering, and we shall continue to suffer.

HayagrIva: From this, Bergson concludes that we are evolving, that we learn from an accumulation of experience, that we cannot, in a sense, repeat the same mistake twice. He writes, "From this survival of the past, it follows that consciousness cannot go through the same state twice. Circumstances may still be the same, but they will act no longer on the same person since they find him in a new moment of his history. Our personality, which is being built up each instant with its accumulated experience, changes without ceasing. Thus our personality shoots, grows and ripens without ceasing."

PrabhupAda: No. There is no cessation because the soul is eternal, so his consciousness is also eternal. But it is changing according to the circumstances, association, time, place, and the party changes. Therefore good association required. SAdhu-saGga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. It is called sAdhu-saGga, association with the devotees. By good association the consciousness can be changed from material to spiritual. That is the KRSNa consciousness movement, how to change the consciousness from matter to KRSNa. So that requires guidance. The guidance is KRSNa's instruction and the spiritual master. KRSNa is so kind that he has given us zAstra and the sAdhu and guru. So if we take advantage of that then we become reformed, our life becomes successful.

HayagrIva: There seems to be an inconsistency here when he says, "our personality, which is being built up with its accumulated experience." Now if personality is determined by experience and if death means a forgetting of our past experience, then a new personality must emerge when we take on a new body.

PrabhupAda: No. The..., your deeds in the past you may forget, but KRSNa does not forget. He therefore gives you chance that "You wanted to do this, now here is the opportunity, you do it."

HayagrIva: At death it's said that we take the mind...

PrabhupAda: Death means the body is changed.

HayagrIva: Yes.

PrabhupAda: But the soul is not changed. So soul continues with his reaction of past deeds, and even though he forgets what he has done in the past, KRSNa is there. He reminds that "You wanted to do this. Do it now."

HayagrIva: The person is the same but the false personality changes then?

PrabhupAda: Yes. So this personality can change to become perfect if he follows the instruction of KRSNa.

HayagrIva: Because obviously, say in my next life, I'll be a different personality.

PrabhupAda: Yes. According to your work, this karmaNA daiva netreNa [sB 3.31.1], by..., the body will be selected, not by you but by superior authority, that "This man has acted like this, so he should get this body."

HayagrIva: If at death the soul takes the mind, intelligence, and ego with it...

PrabhupAda: Yes.

HayagrIva: ...into a new body... If that's the case, isn't it possible for the mind to actually remember its past lives?

PrabhupAda: Sometimes he remembers. There are many instances, just like BhArata MahArAja. He got the body of an animal, but by the grace of KRSNa that he remembered everything of his past life. Therefore KRSNa said, mattaH smRtir jJAnam apohanam, "That I am." BhArata MahArAja's remembrance, it is due to KRSNa's mercy. He was a devotee, but he neglected his devotional service on account for being too much attached to a small deer. So at the time of death he was thinking of the deer, he got the body of a deer. But KRSNa, out of His great mercy, He reminded him that "You are in such a position now. You have become a deer. So don't forget Me, My service." So he did that. He was always staying with devotees, that "By my fault I have got this body, so let me remain in this life with the devotees." So next life he took birth in a nice brAhmaNa's family, but due to his past experience, that "I fell down," he remained just like a dull brain, not associating with anyone, that "I cannot fall again." So even in the next birth KRSNa can remind him of his past birth and guide him.

[gHari]

From the above understanding conveyed by Krsna in the Bhagavatam it would appear that to create the complete illusion that the body is the self, all past life experiences are gone. That certainly seems a logical requirement for the conditioned soul to enjoy that incarnation as a material body.

[Guest guest]

But the problem is we are "forced" to forget the past body and fully relate to the new body.

 

Where is the free will to remember the past body?

 

Say that at this point in time I would like to think back to my previous body like Bharat Maharaj....I don't have that chance.

 

just like in Bharat Maharaj's case, Krishna allowed him to remember. That means Krishna has the power to take away our rememberance. Free will is not given. We are forced to forget.

 

Right after I die I may be directed to another body, but in between the transmigration where is the chance to stop and think about our bad deeds and rectify them. We are automatically forced into a new body. I don't recall being given that chance to look back even before entering this current body.

[Guest guest]

 

just like in Bharat Maharaj's case, Krishna allowed him to remember. That means Krishna has the power to take away our rememberance.

 

He also has the power to make Himself visible unto you. The question is, are you qualified. Bharat Maharaja was qualified to remember his previous life because he had attained a high level of bhakti, (bhava, I believe.)

 

 

Free will is not given.

 

Sure it is. You have the free will to purify your heart and make yourself qualified. I've noticed that you like to use the "prison" analogy a lot. You're like the prisoner who demands that he be allowed 3 weeks paid vacation in the Bahamas, a 401K plan, pension, stock options, profit sharing, sick leave, your own private cell with private kitchen, and a fridge stocked full of fresh, wholesome, organic foods, your own personal PC, cable TV with Tivo, cell phone with caller ID and voice mail, a free Mazzarati parked outside so that you can enjoy your weekends off, etc.

 

Sorry, but most prisoners are lucky to just get 3 hots and a cot, at the ol' Greybar Motel.