Do devas or demi-gods have wings?

[Guest guest]

I've heard deva or demi-gods being equated to angels. In Vedic scripture do they say demi-gods or deva have wings like angels(in Abrahamic faiths). Can the be portrayed as have wings and being angels(in the Abrahamic sense)?

[Guest guest]

No answers?

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

No, they dont have wings.

[Guest guest]

 

I've heard deva or demi-gods being equated to angels. In Vedic scripture do they say demi-gods or deva have wings like angels(in Abrahamic faiths). Can the be portrayed as have wings and being angels(in the Abrahamic sense)?

 

According to many near-death experiences by people of Abrahamic faiths, many or most angels don't have wings either.

[gHari 0]

<img src=http://www.manuelfurru.it/NARADA/Images/Narayana&Garuda.jpg>

[Kripamoya 0]

Yes, there are some Gandharvas who have wings.

 

Winged Angels are known as Gandharvas.

 

In the pastimes of Mahaprabhu, Chota Haridas committed suicide and became a Gandharva.

 

Srila Prabhupada instruced the artist to portray the Gandharva with wings.

[Guest guest]

Thank you!

[Guest guest]

[www].krishna.jp/graphics/gallery.caitanya/Junior_Haridas_ghost.jpg

[Kripamoya 0]

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

I have never come across a single depiction of a winged devata, gandharva, etc., in India, neither in the form of paintings nor in temple carvings. It is likely Prabhupada was trying to convey the concept of Gandharva to a Christian audience who understood that wings mean a divine angel. Of course I could be wrong, but I don't believe there is any evidence for this. Pictures of Garuda (a bird), or particular animal forms of course are an exception; but that is not an angel like depiction as shown in the painting above.

 

Prabhupada: So the angels... The Siddhaloka is not in the spiritual world. It is in the material world. But they are highly qualified. But that Siddhaloka is not in the spiritual world. That is within the material world.

 

Devotee (1): You said that the pictures they draw of the men with wings, that is not bona fide pictures?

 

Prabhupada: No. The statement in the Vedic literature—that they can fly. Now one can draw some picture, because they have idea that without wings how one can fly? That may be. That is their idea. But Narada can fly everywhere. He has no wings. He can travel both in the spiritual and material world, but he has no wings.

[Kripamoya 0]

TEXT 6

 

 

 

TEXT

 

 

 

kasisnuna kanaka-varna-vibhusanena

 

bhrajat-kapola-vadano vilasat-kiritah

 

astayudhair anucarair munibhih surendrair

 

asevito garuda-kinnara-gita-kirtih

 

 

 

SYNONYMS

 

 

 

kasisnuna--shining; kanaka--gold; varna--colored; vibhusanena--with ornaments; bhrajat--shining; kapola--forehead; vadanah--His face; vilasat--dazzling; kiritah--His helmet; asta--eight; ayudhaih--with weapons; anucaraih--by followers; munibhih--by great sages; sura-indraih--by demigods; asevitah--served; garuda--by Garuda; kinnara--inhabitant of the Kinnara planet; gita--sung; kirtih--His glories.

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

 

The Lord's face was very beautiful, and His head was decorated with a shining helmet and golden ornaments. The helmet was dazzling and was very beautifully situated on His head. The Lord had eight arms, which each held a particular weapon. The Lord was surrounded by demigods, great sages and other associates. These were all engaged in His service. Garuda, the carrier of the Lord, glorified the Lord with Vedic hymns by flapping his wings. Garuda appeared to be an inhabitant of the planet known as Kinnaraloka.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

 

Generally the Visnu form is manifested with four hands holding four objects (a conchshell, disc, club and lotus flower). However, here Lord Visnu is described as possessing eight arms with eight kinds of weapons. According to Viraraghava Acarya, the conchshell and lotus flower are also accepted as weapons. Since the Lord is the supreme controller, whatever is in His hand can be considered a weapon. Four hands hold four kinds of weapons, and the extra four hands hold an arrow, bow, trident and snake. Sri Viraraghava Acarya describes the eight weapons as sankha, cakra, gada, padma, sarnga, sara, etc.

 

A king is always accompanied by his ministers, secretaries and commanders, and Lord Visnu is also accompanied by His followers--the demigods, great sages, saintly persons and so on. He is never alone. Consequently there is no question of the Lord's being impersonal. He is always Himself, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and His associates are also persons. From the description given in this verse, Garuda appears to belong to the Kinnara planet. The inhabitants of the Kinnara planet have the same features as Garuda. Their bodily features are like those of a human being, but they have wings. The word gita-kirtih indicates that the inhabitants of Kinnaraloka are very expert in singing the glories of the Lord. In Brahma-samhita it is said: jagad-anda-koti-kotisv asesa-vasudhadi-vibhuti-bhinnam. In each and every universe there are different types of planets, and each planet has distinctive features. On the strength of this verse, we can understand that in Kinnaraloka the inhabitants can fly with their wings. There is also a planet, known as Siddhaloka, where the inhabitants can fly even without wings. Thus each and every planet has some distinctive facility. That is the beauty of the varied creation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

[Guest guest]

I can fly in my astral body, and I do not have wings. So wings are not neccesary for flight in the subtle worlds. But yet, there are some beings like those on the Kinnara planet who have wings.

 

I do not know if these Kinnara inhabitants are related to the winged angels of the Abrahamic religions? interesting that they are associated with music, as I believe angels are also according to legend suppose to be some sort of celestial musicians (they are often painted playing harps) - as well as messengers and guardians.

[Guest guest]

 

I can fly in my astral body, and I do not have wings. So wings are not neccesary for flight in the subtle worlds. But yet, there are some beings like those on the Kinnara planet who have wings.

 

I do not know if these Kinnara inhabitants are related to the winged angels of the Abrahamic religions? interesting that they are associated with music, as I believe angels are also according to legend suppose to be some sort of celestial musicians (they are often painted playing harps) - as well as messengers and guardians.

 

What is the Kinnara planet? You have seen it personally? Are you sure it exists?

 

Also, as I stated before, some NDE's report seeing angels, but the experiencer tends to be surprised at their lack of wings. Perhaps the wings were added to show divinity or something and it's just an exaggeration more than anything else.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

If we read carefully it is clear Prabhupada is speaking of bird inhabitants of Kinnara loka, not angels:

 

"The inhabitants of the Kinnara planet have the same features as Garuda."

There is no description of Christian angels in Vedic scriptures, nor are there any artistic depictions of them in temples or in Hindu art.

 

Garuda doesn't resemble a Christian angel at all, as can be seen from the two pictures in this thread (one showing Vishnu riding on Garuda, and the other showing an angel like being next to Lord Caitanya).

[Kripamoya 0]

Srimad Bhagavatam 2.10. 37-40

 

 

O King, know from me that all living entities are created by the Supreme Lord according to their past deeds. This includes Brahma and his sons like Daksa, the periodical heads like Vaivasvata Manu, the demigods like Indra, Candra and Varuna, the great sages like Bhrgu, Vyasa and Vasistha, the inhabitants of Pitrloka and Siddhaloka, the Caranas, Gandharvas, Vidyadharas, Asuras, Yaksas, Kinnaras and angels, the serpentines, the monkey-shaped Kimpurusas, the human beings, the inhabitants of Matrloka, the demons, Pisacas, ghosts, spirits, lunatics and evil spirits, the good and evil stars, the goblins, the animals in the forest, the birds, the household animals, the reptiles, the mountains, the moving and standing living entities, the living entities born from embryos, from eggs, from perspiration and from seeds, and all others, whether they be in the water, land or sky, in happiness, in distress or in mixed happiness and distress. All of them, according to their past deeds, are created by the Supreme Lord.

[Kripamoya 0]

SB 3.10.28-39

 

 

The creation of the demigods is of eight varieties: (1) the demigods, (2) the forefathers, (3) the asuras, or demons, (4) the Gandharvas and Apsarās, or angels, (5) the Yakṣas and Rākṣasas, (6) the Siddhas, Cāraṇas and Vidyādharas, (7) the Bhūtas, Pretas and Piśācas, and (8) the superhuman beings, celestial singers, etc. All are created by Brahmā, the creator of the universe.

[Guest guest]

 

What is the Kinnara planet? You have seen it personally?

 

No, I have not seen it personally. At least not in this lifetime.

 

 

Are you sure it exists?

 

I have no reason to doubt its existence. I believe our scriptures contain an accurate description of the astral worlds/lokas, and the spiritual world. This is based on my own research, and experiences I have had in explorations in my astral body.

 

 

Also, as I stated before, some NDE's report seeing angels, but the experiencer tends to be surprised at their lack of wings. Perhaps the wings were added to show divinity or something and it's just an exaggeration more than anything else.

 

In the Book of Isaiah, the Seraphim are described as having wings (6 I believe). There are other angelic apparitions that never mention wings. So perhaps the Gandharvas are something like the wingless angels. I do not know enough about Gandharvas at the present to know if they are the same beings.

 

Of course the word "angel" would never appear in Sanskrit writings. Angel is a Hebrew word that means messenger of God. This does not mean there are not some description of the same beings in Vedic scriptures. If a Christian person had an NDE, and saw light beings, they'd probably call these beings "angels", whether they had wings or not. And if a Hindu, Jain or Buddhist saw these same beings, they'd call them by another name. But they'd be seeing the same beings.

 

Do Gandharvas ever appear in human form (or as an apparition) and warn people? are they known bring any type of messages to humans? do they guide people in the afterlife realms? these are the questions.

[Guest guest]

 

No, I have not seen it personally. At least not in this lifetime.

 

 

 

I have no reason to doubt its existence. I believe our scriptures contain an accurate description of the astral worlds/lokas, and the spiritual world. This is based on my own research, and experiences I have had in explorations in my astral body.

 

 

 

In the Book of Isaiah, the Seraphim are described as having wings (6 I believe). There are other angelic apparitions that never mention wings. So perhaps the Gandharvas are something like the wingless angels. I do not know enough about Gandharvas at the present to know if they are the same beings.

 

Of course the word "angel" would never appear in Sanskrit writings. Angel is a Hebrew word that means messenger of God. This does not mean there are not some description of the same beings in Vedic scriptures. If a Christian person had an NDE, and saw light beings, they'd probably call these beings "angels", whether they had wings or not. And if a Hindu, Jain or Buddhist saw these same beings, they'd call them by another name. But they'd be seeing the same beings.

 

Do Gandharvas ever appear in human form (or as an apparition) and warn people? are they known bring any type of messages to humans? do they guide people in the afterlife realms? these are the questions.

 

 

Narada does bring messages from the Lord to people, I believe. I think he was a gandharva, in the stories.

 

As for your research in the astral world, what do you mean by that? You mean you actually did research on the topic of the Kinnara planet in the astral world? If you can travel astrally, why can't you go there? Where have you been in the astral realm?

[Guest guest]

 

As for your research in the astral world, what do you mean by that? You mean you actually did research on the topic of the Kinnara planet in the astral world? If you can travel astrally, why can't you go there? Where have you been in the astral realm?

 

no, I have never done research on the Kinnara Planet in the astral world. The astral world is vast. There are so many different locations, and higher and upper levels. As well as many differen types of beings that appear to different people who travel in these locations. This coincides with what vedic writings tell us about there being many different lokas and different beings populating these various planes. This is what I mean that my astral exploration, has made me so appreciate the metaphysical knowledge we are given in the vedic scriptures.

 

Though I have not seen the Kinnara Planet, I have no reason to doubt that it is a real place somewhere in another plane. I have seen enough to know these types of places do exist.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

 

...(4) the Gandharvas and Apsarās, or angels...

 

And you take this to mean there are actually winged beings like in the Christian faith despite there being absolutely no descriptions of such beings in Vedic literature. Apsaras and Gandharvas are carved on nearly every single temple in India, and none of them have wings. Prabhupada used the word angel because it was understood by his Christian audience. There are no such thing as Christian angels.

 

Prabhupada: So the angels... The Siddhaloka is not in the spiritual world. It is in the material world. But they are highly qualified. But that Siddhaloka is not in the spiritual world. That is within the material world.

 

Devotee (1): You said that the pictures they draw of the men with wings, that is not bona fide pictures?

 

Prabhupada: No. The statement in the Vedic literature—that they can fly. Now one can draw some picture, because they have idea that without wings how one can fly? That may be. That is their idea. But Narada can fly everywhere. He has no wings. He can travel both in the spiritual and material world, but he has no wings.

 

Notice the devotee confirms Prabhupada had told him the pictures of angels were bogus. And Prabhupada goes on to explain why they are bogus. Some people are attached to their conception of religion, and have a hard time giving it up. Over all its not a very important topic, so if you want to imagine winged angels, go ahead.

[Yogkriya 0]

Indeed.

Wings are needed to fly a gross physical object that is governed by physical laws of gravity, movement, air, inertia and momentum.

The celestial beings are not bounded by these exact earthly laws. They have different 'bodies', powers and capacities and belong to a different realm of existence.

So obviously they don't need those wings. This is what simple logic says.

Also as JN Das quoted SPP, there are really no depictions of 'winged' beings in puranas and scriptures that are much much more ancient than Christianity. Wings could be symbolic in Christian books that were later accepted literally. Lord Hanuman could fly and had no wings. Yogis siddh in 'vayu gaman siddhi' can fly even with a gross physical body without needing any wings.

 

 

 

 

And you take this to mean there are actually winged beings like in the Christian faith despite there being absolutely no descriptions of such beings in Vedic literature. Apsaras and Gandharvas are carved on nearly every single temple in India, and none of them have wings. Prabhupada used the word angel because it was understood by his Christian audience. There are no such thing as Christian angels.

 

Prabhupada: So the angels... The Siddhaloka is not in the spiritual world. It is in the material world. But they are highly qualified. But that Siddhaloka is not in the spiritual world. That is within the material world.

 

Devotee (1): You said that the pictures they draw of the men with wings, that is not bona fide pictures?

 

Prabhupada: No. The statement in the Vedic literature—that they can fly. Now one can draw some picture, because they have idea that without wings how one can fly? That may be. That is their idea. But Narada can fly everywhere. He has no wings. He can travel both in the spiritual and material world, but he has no wings.

 

Notice the devotee confirms Prabhupada had told him the pictures of angels were bogus. And Prabhupada goes on to explain why they are bogus. Some people are attached to their conception of religion, and have a hard time giving it up. Over all its not a very important topic, so if you want to imagine winged angels, go ahead.

[Guest guest]

can they be interpreted as having wings. Does scripture say indefinately that they don't have wings? Is it objectable to draw them w/ wings?

[Guest guest]

no answers??

[Guest guest]

 

can they be interpreted as having wings.

 

Not in Vedic literature.

 

 

Does scripture say indefinately that they don't have wings?

 

not that I know of, but their artistic depiction on Hindu temples and in Hindu art, should be quite telling as to how they look. If they had wings don't you think someone who saw them would have passed on that knowledge to artists?

 

 

Is it objectable to draw them w/ wings?

 

why would you? you could draw them with tights and a cape, like a superhero, but what would be the point? might as well draw them the traditional way.. as far as we know that is how they actually look.

[Guest guest]

I am wondering if the Vedic concept ever describes any form of asura or demonic creature like Rakshasas as having wings?

 

Also, the siddhas from siddha-loka and other planets where mystic powers are natural, could manifest a form with wings if they wanted to.

The could manifest and withdraw wings is they wanted to.

They can assume about any form they choose.

If they wanted to manifest wings, they certainly could.

 

Who is to say that at some time in history of Earth the siddhas were not visiting pious people in winged forms?

 

Generally, Angels are considered female anyway.

I think Srila Prabhupada referred to apsaras as "Angels".