URGENT: GBC must implement varnasrama-dharma

July 23, 1999

> Our sannysis and gurus ALL know that Srila Prabhupada gave the orders to

> divide this society of devotees into four varnas and yet they have failed

> completely to even BEGIN this endeavor for over 25 years. There is not

> even ONE varnasrama college in the movement in the mode of operation as

> described by Srila Prabhupada in his March 1974 varnasrama- morning walk

> conversations. He ordered that varnasrama colleges be started IMMEDIATELY

> in EVERY center of the movement.

>

> Why haven't these "very, very sincere" leaders done this?

OK , I will begin the process . You will be a sudra . You are assigned to

assist in Flame Wars . Because you are the only sincere person who has ever

done anything worthwhile in the last 25 years you should be good at this .

But first you have to find a brahmin you can work for . Good luck , given

your propensity for vituperation .

Also I don't agree with you . There have been many discussions , seminars

and even attempts at establishing parts of varnasrama . Many papers have

been written and even a couple of books . It is not an easy subject .

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta wanted very much to do it . He was in India working

with Indians who are much more familiar with this . He was active for at

least 30 years and had complete control of his mission . Srila Prabhupada

had 12 years . He described varnasrama as one of his missions .

We are being heavily attacked from so many sides at this time and we are

trying to keep Srila Prabhupada's mission together so someday we may have a

varnasrama college and a Mayapur Project etc etc . We get very little

encouragement and WHO WANTS THE JOB ANYWAY !!!! Many GBC men , sannyasis ,

temple presidents have put their lives on the line working long hours with

no budget and you sit at your little home in Syracuse in front of your

computer firing off your 2 cents worth attacking everyone .

I for one don't appreciate it much . I think you will find a positive

approach would work better .

That said , I apologize if my text has been offensive to you or others . I

would like to submit , although unbelievable to some , that we are sensitive

people also . Enough leader bashing , please .

Your servant

Sridhar Swami

July 24, 1999

> > Our sannysis and gurus ALL know that Srila Prabhupada gave the orders to

> > divide this society of devotees into four varnas and yet they have

> > failed completely to even BEGIN this endeavor for over 25 years. There

> > is not even ONE varnasrama college in the movement in the mode of

> > operation as described by Srila Prabhupada in his March 1974 varnasrama-

> > morning walk conversations. He ordered that varnasrama colleges be

> > started IMMEDIATELY in EVERY center of the movement.

> >

> > Why haven't these "very, very sincere" leaders done this?

>

> OK , I will begin the process . You will be a sudra . You are assigned to

> assist in Flame Wars . Because you are the only sincere person who has

> ever done anything worthwhile in the last 25 years you should be good at

> this . But first you have to find a brahmin you can work for . Good luck ,

> given your propensity for vituperation .

Ahhhh, the sweet sound of a swami. It's always refreshing!

Catch you on a bad day Maharaja? I'm a little surprised at your reaction to

my rather tame comments. This was nothing compared to some previous debates

with other swamis and godbrothers.

One reason I would suggest we have not been very successful at implementing

daiva varnasrama-dharma is the propensity for "leaders" or others like

yourself to think that someone is going to dole out the designations and

order someone to be a sudra and assist in "flame wars" or the like. we first

have to RECOGNIZE that varnasrama-dharma already exists; it is eternal,

created by Krsna - catur-varnyam... .To think we have to come to some level

of "purity" before we are qualified to implement it practicably in our lives

is denying our constitutional nature for some artificial alternative social

system.

> Also I don't agree with you . There have been many discussions , seminars

> and even attempts at establishing parts of varnasrama . Many papers have

> been written and even a couple of books . It is not an easy subject .

Take baby steps first. You have to crawl before you can run.

Varnasrama-dharma is a very, very comprehensive system of social and

spiritual human culture without doubt. It is like the mathematical systems

which are very comprehensive and have very high levels of practice and

logic. But anyone, even a child, can be a practitioner of the mathematical

system simply by learning the 1+1=2 equation which is true in even the

highest math.

Just because we do not know the highest levels of varnasrama-dharma practice

shouldn't stop us completely from endeavoring to BEGIN the process as

directed practically by Srila Prabhupada.

Do you think Srila Prabhupada had the wrong idea in March of 1974 when he

gave detailed instructions of how to start varnasrama-dharma implementation

within this society? How many of those instructions have been implemented in

ISKCON? This is not to condemn everything else that has been done, but

certainly it should have received at least equal priority in budgeting and

man-power. Don't you think?

> Srila Bhaktisiddhanta wanted very much to do it . He was in India working

> with Indians who are much more familiar with this . He was active for at

> least 30 years and had complete control of his mission . Srila Prabhupada

> had 12 years . He described varnasrama as one of his missions .

He described it as wholely a HALF of his mission and the one thing that he

lamented having not fulfilled, leaving it to us.

> We are being heavily attacked from so many sides at this time and we are

> trying to keep Srila Prabhupada's mission together

Varnasrama-dharma, the medicine for the disease that ails us, would make

things a lot easier to manage, Prabhu. We will endlessly fight the symptoms

with no real success.

"Society cannot depend on sudras. Nor can you depend on the brahmanas. To

fulfill the necessities of your body, there must be a brain, arms, a

stomach, and legs. The legs, the brain, and the arms are all required for

cooperation to fulfill the mission of the whole body. So in any society you

can see that unless there are these divisions, there will be chaos. IT WILL

NOT WORK PROPERLY. IT WILL BE MAYA AND THERE WILL BE DISTURBANCES." SSR pg

198

> so someday we may have

> a varnasrama college and a Mayapur Project etc etc .

Why always so big, big, big? We dream of huge things, never attain them, and

the "small" fundamentals get left behind. Start with small varnasrama

colleges in EVERY center just like Srila Prabhupada advised. Little

counseling rooms where EVERY devotee can receive varnasrama-dharma guidance

EVERYDAY in EVERY center. This is what Srila Prabhupada suggested. Do-able

stuff. Do-able right now.

> We get very little

> encouragement and WHO WANTS THE JOB ANYWAY !!!!

I am sorry, I find it hard to encourage leaders to continue on a path which

has diverged from the fundamental plans and advice of our guru maharaja.

You are fighting fires and that is unfortunately necessary and commendable

for a few, but the majority of the brahmanas should be detached from that

and stay focused on their duty of training all the four classes in varna

occupations. This will be productive and auspicious.

> Many GBC men , sannyasis

> , temple presidents have put their lives on the line working long hours

> with no budget and you sit at your little home in Syracuse in front of

> your computer firing off your 2 cents worth attacking everyone .

This is like President Clinton complaining about how his administration is

working sooooo hard all the time on executive matters and government

problems when he seems to forget that it is his method of administration

that causes all the problems that he is soooo busy fighting!

You have no budget because you have not instituted varnasrama-dharma,

dividing the devotees into their natural four varnas. This is how economic

development is created, Vedically.

And, actually, I have a BIG home.

You may not be aware, but I have been throwing my "2 cents" in on this

subject for many years, so that surely adds up to a couple dollars by now.

And I didn't really attack anyone; I asked a simple question, albeit

admittedly a loaded question - I asked WHY the leaders hadn't done this

(implement Srila Prabhupada's orders to start varnasrama colleges in EVERY

center)

You kind of answered it in a round-about-way, but hardly satisfying to a

vituperative person like myself.

> I for one don't appreciate it much . I think you will find a positive

> approach would work better .

I open to any suggestions for a healthy, positive agenda for the

implementation of varnasrama-dharma. My thankless task of vituperativeness

could finally come to an end, though it would confirm the adage - the

squeaky wheel always gets the grease!

> That said , I apologize if my text has been offensive to you

Nary a word you said have I found offensive in the least. Indeed, it was

quite invigorating, Maharaja!

If it shook you up, that was the intent, with all due respect. To open a

meaningful dialog of a subject which was so dear to our guru, it seems a

trivial disturbance.

I

> would like to submit , although unbelievable to some , that we are

> sensitive people also .

Good to hear. Share your sensitivity with others in a varnasrama-dharma

counseling session today!

Hari! Hari!

With all respects, sincerely

your fallen servant,

Janesvara dasa

July 24, 1999

> > Also I don't agree with you . There have been many discussions ,

> > seminars and even attempts at establishing parts of varnasrama . Many

> > papers have been written and even a couple of books . It is not an easy

> > subject .

> Take baby steps first. You have to crawl before you can run.

> Varnasrama-dharma is a very, very comprehensive system of social and

> spiritual human culture without doubt. It is like the mathematical systems

> which are very comprehensive and have very high levels of practice and

> logic. But anyone, even a child, can be a practitioner of the mathematical

> system simply by learning the 1+1=2 equation which is true in even the

> highest math.

In the posts below Srila Prabhupada mentions several 'baby' steps we can

take. When he was here, the devotees had to heed his words, and do his

bidding, even if somewhat reluctantly. Now he has gone it appears that we

have gotten too comfortable in our nice temples to want to go out on the

land.

Surely the first steps are to create out own 'wealth' from the land. Once in

that atmosphere, once we are engaged in working to produce the necesitites

from the land where they all spring, our people, being situated in goodness,

will begin to discover their real nature, and gravitate towards their

rightful situation.

It seems that we have simply 'forgotten' how to surrender to his order. If

only our leaders could lead the way, and work on the baby steps of getting

things together on the land. There is plently of information out there,

plenty of help available. But it appears that we dont have the will?

Srila Prabhupada: Life should be conducted in such a way that our

necessities of life may come not with great effort, easily, easily. We

should not encumber ourself, our life, living policy, in an encumbered way.

Then our spiritual progress will be hampered. The modern society has

practically encumbered the whole human activities, and therefore they have

no time for spiritual culture. You see? But the conception of Vedic

civilization was that people used to be satisfied on agricultural produce

and for three months working during rainy season.

So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So

nine months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three

months they used to work for accumulating their foodstuff.

Srila Prabhupada: So as we till our land and get foodstuff according to my

labor, according to my intelligence... Food grains I can produce once twice,

thrice, if I work hard. Generally, they work two times: three months, three

months. And those who are very lazy, they work three months. But even

working for three months, they can aquire foodstuffs for the whole year.

That I have seen. So similarly, as we get some land and work for yourself

End Quote.

If we're satisfied with the basic necessities of life, then its indicated

here that 3 months work is sufficient.

Its not a question of believing, these are the vedic histories. Its just

hard to understand how it works because its so foreign to our kali-yuga

situation. That shouldn't make us frightened to take it up. That's what

"having faith in the words of the spiritual master" is all about.

(I lifted the last two paragraphs from a text by Niscala prabhu, which I

thought were nicely relevant)

Room Conversation New Vrindaban, June 24, 1976 760624RC.NV

Prabhupada: This project should be advanced--plain living, high thinking.

Dhrstadyumna: I think we'll take around that film of New Vrindaban to all

the colleges this year when we are preaching and show it to the students as

our practical example.

Prabhupada: This is nasty civilization, unnecessarily increasing necessities

of life. Anartha.

Kirtanananda: We would not have understood you if you had said that eight,

ten years ago.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Kirtanananda: Ten years ago I know I could not have understood you if you

had said that. Now I understand a little bit.

Prabhupada: Now suppose these electric lights. So, crude form of light, we

grow some castor seed, everything from the earth. This also you are getting

from earth, petroleum, and running on machine, and electricity is generated.

But really you are getting the impetus from the earth. As soon as the

petroleum supply is stopped, everything stopped. But for this purpose you

have to search out petroleum from the middle of ocean, boring. Therefore it

is ugra-karma.

The purpose is that you grow some castor seed, press it, get oil, put in any

pot, and one wick, the light is there. So even understanding that you have

improved the lighting system, but that is not the only necessity of my life.

But to improve from the castor seed lamp, castor oil lamp, to this

electricity, you have to work so hard. You have to go to the middle of ocean

and drill it and get out petroleum and... In this way your real business of

life is finished.

The energy and the intelligence you got for your self-realization or your,

this precarious position, constantly dying and taking birth in various

species of life, this is your problem, and this was to be solved in human

life, you have got advanced intelligence, but that intelligence is utilized

from castor seed lamp to the electric lamp. That's all.

Just try to understand. What is that improvement? And for this improving

from castor seed oil lamp to electricity lamp, you forget your real

business. You lost yourself. This civilization is going on. This is called

maya. For some fictitious happiness you lose your whole purpose of life. It

is difficult to understand, but the fact is there. But you are under the

control of nature, you have to give up this body. All right, you make very

nice arrangement to live here, nature will not allow you to live. You must

die. And after death you are going to get another body. So in this body,

working for high grade electricity lamp, you work so hard, have got your own

business, and next life by the lawsof nature, if you get the body of a dog,

then what is the benefit? That you cannot check. What is the answer? Hmm?

July 24, 1999

On 23 Jul 1999, Sridhar Swami wrote:

> I for one don't appreciate it much . I think you will find a positive

> approach would work better .

>

> That said , I apologize if my text has been offensive to you or others . I

> would like to submit , although unbelievable to some , that we are sensitive

> people also . Enough leader bashing , please .

Dear Maharaj,

Pamho. AGtSP!

Thank you very much for this reasoned post. It expresses my own thoughts, but

I am to fearful to express them in these forums. Just another flame war

breaks out. It is too depressing.

Actions speak louder than words. So, for my own insignificant part I am

single-handedly developing a project here in North Idaho. Later on, when the

BIG troubles start, maybe others will join me.

Thank you for your succint encouragement.

your fallen servant,

bhuta-bhavana dasa

July 24, 1999

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