Cowslaughter in ISKCON?

[Guest guest]

Janesvara wrote

>

> No. His wealth was from working his devotee butt off. Perspiration. And

> emplying thousands and thousands of others in the milk production

> "business" or whatever name you want to give it. Nanda had a million cows!

> Do you realize how many gallons of milk, pounds of butter, curd and yogurt

> that is daily? Was he just throwing the milk on the ground? I doubt it.

> How many residents of Vrindavana were there? Certainly not even close to

> enough to consume tis amount of milk products. Wouldn't it seem common

> sense that Nanda was serving his king faithfully and producing the milk

> required by the inhabitants of the nearby cities who could not produce

> milk in the city? And the king was assuring Nanda that all of his

> necessities were taken care of and much more in the way of wealth? It was

> a gigantic enterprise the likes of which we do not even see nowadays. A

> MILLION cows! How many millions of acres of land were being managed?

> Employees? Hard work every single day.

>

 

I agree certainly work for everybody.

 

> Or do we not really believe this?

>

 

Here are some figures to ponder

 

If Nanda maharaja was able to utilise all of Vrindavan, 64 square miles, and

was keeping 900 thousand cows then he was maintaining 55 cows to the

hectare. If all the cows were milking then there were 900,000 calves plus,

at 50% male birth rate, 900,000 bulls/bullocks this gives us 165 bovines per

hectare. A fairly amazing level of carrying capacity of the land which has

to be transendentally understood. The land we have in Kali yuga cannot

sustain these levels of production so it is wrong to judge the present

activities of the farms based on the descriptions in the Krsna book.

 

Our farm of 200 acres has been evaluated to have a sustainable herd of 8

refreshed cows per year, a herd of 120. Melbourne temple and it's

restaurants use 100 kg of ghee per week which would require a milking herd

of 35, so you can see how difficult it is to equate our apparent

inadequacies to the expectation of the temple devotees who, after reading

the Krsna book, cannot understand our performance levels.

 

I am sure that farm devotees all over the world are pondering or have

pondered the difficulties of maintaining cows and models are being tried

everywhere. In the future more answers will be available.

 

I hope my mathematics is correct.

 

Your servant, Gokula das

[Guest guest]

On 04 May 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote:

 

> > I just want to avoid a voluntary poverty consciousness which sometimes is

an

> > excuse for laziness and space-out.

>

> There is also a lifestyle based on the artificial manipulation of paper and

> electronic funds that breeds laziness and being spaced out that needs to be

> avoided.

 

 

Very good point. That is the other side of the same coin.

[Guest guest]

On 04 May 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote:

 

> > I just want to avoid a voluntary poverty consciousness which sometimes is

an

> > excuse for laziness and space-out.

>

> There is also a lifestyle based on the artificial manipulation of paper and

> electronic funds that breeds laziness and being spaced out that needs to be

> avoided.

 

 

Very good point. That is the other side of the same coin.

[Guest guest]

Gokula das wrote:

 Here are some figures to ponder. If Nanda maharaja was able to

utilise all of Vrindavan, 64 square miles, and was keeping 900 thousand cows

then he was maintaining 55 cows to the hectare. If all the cows were milking

then there were 900,000 calves plus, at 50% male birth rate, 900,000

bulls/bullocks this gives us 165 bovines per hectare.

 

Comment:

Sounds abut right except the birth sex ratio, provided the Indian cows of

today are working on the same principle as at the time of Krsna. In Zebu cows,

which is what Krsna possessed by the description given, male births are

generally 3 out of 4 or 75%. Making the bullock figure 675,000 and if the

human population was as large as things indicate, a lot of food was being

grown. If you are working a team of oxen (2) than that means 337,500 teamsters

in the Vrndavan area. That is a lot of sweat. I can accept the figure of 165

bovines per hectare, after all the Lord and the goddess of fortune where

walking there. We are not those personalities so we will not be so wealthy,

not so many cows, jewels and the like. Still, we should be able to make our

productive levels a little higher than the ugrafarmer of the petrochemical

industry … provided we can manifest a little faith in the possiblities with

Krsna on our side in this war. Why not 8 or 10 cows per hectare, if we follow

proper agricultural practices (seen through the eyes of sastric principles)

and utilize the results for glorification of Krsna. In the west this means

growing sufficient foodstuffs to feed the devotees and people with in a ten

mile radius (16 km) of our centres. Of course this means the disapearance of

devotees having 5 acre yards (12 ha.) of weeds or lawns. They will have to

obtain a team or two and work it up ……… oh no that means they are going tot

have to sweat for Krsna, heaven forbid.

 

 >A fairly amazing level of carrying capacity of the land which has to

be transendentally understood. The land we have in Kali yuga cannot sustain

these levels of production so it is wrong to judge the present activities of

the farms based on the descriptions in the Krsna book. Our farm of 200 acres

has been evaluated to have a sustainable herd of 8 refreshed cows per year, a

herd of 120. Melbourne temple and it's restaurants use 100 kg of ghee per week

which would require a milking herd of 35, so you can see how difficult it is

to equate our apparent inadequacies to the expectation of the temple devotees

who, after reading the Krsna book, cannot understand our performance levels.

 

Comment:

In this regard there are four things to do, in order of importance;

1. Institute a strong practice of full sadhana for each individual resident of

the community. Including harinam on at least a weekly basis if not daily.

2. Engage every living entity; human, animal and plant according to its

propensity, in Lord Krsna’s service. No one should be idle, engaged in

activities that do not glorify the Lord or in pursuance thereof. Everything

and everyone has a function and should be used to their maximum extent.

3. Increase the fertility by composting (on the cropland) and introducing

rapid rotational grazing (on the hay and pasture lands) along with a holistic

form of agriculture.

4. Obtain more land, develop it agriculturally and ecologically so that the

brahmanas have full facility. DO NOT BECOME A SUBURBIA PARK. Become a village

where Krsna’s name rings throughout the leys … Gita Nagari. It is not just in

Pennsylavia but at every ISKCON farm that Srila Prabhupada’s writing of that

village apply.

 

Ys,

Rohita dasa

[Guest guest]

Gokula das wrote:

 Here are some figures to ponder. If Nanda maharaja was able to

utilise all of Vrindavan, 64 square miles, and was keeping 900 thousand cows

then he was maintaining 55 cows to the hectare. If all the cows were milking

then there were 900,000 calves plus, at 50% male birth rate, 900,000

bulls/bullocks this gives us 165 bovines per hectare.

 

Comment:

Sounds abut right except the birth sex ratio, provided the Indian cows of

today are working on the same principle as at the time of Krsna. In Zebu cows,

which is what Krsna possessed by the description given, male births are

generally 3 out of 4 or 75%. Making the bullock figure 675,000 and if the

human population was as large as things indicate, a lot of food was being

grown. If you are working a team of oxen (2) than that means 337,500 teamsters

in the Vrndavan area. That is a lot of sweat. I can accept the figure of 165

bovines per hectare, after all the Lord and the goddess of fortune where

walking there. We are not those personalities so we will not be so wealthy,

not so many cows, jewels and the like. Still, we should be able to make our

productive levels a little higher than the ugrafarmer of the petrochemical

industry … provided we can manifest a little faith in the possiblities with

Krsna on our side in this war. Why not 8 or 10 cows per hectare, if we follow

proper agricultural practices (seen through the eyes of sastric principles)

and utilize the results for glorification of Krsna. In the west this means

growing sufficient foodstuffs to feed the devotees and people with in a ten

mile radius (16 km) of our centres. Of course this means the disapearance of

devotees having 5 acre yards (12 ha.) of weeds or lawns. They will have to

obtain a team or two and work it up ……… oh no that means they are going tot

have to sweat for Krsna, heaven forbid.

 

 >A fairly amazing level of carrying capacity of the land which has to

be transendentally understood. The land we have in Kali yuga cannot sustain

these levels of production so it is wrong to judge the present activities of

the farms based on the descriptions in the Krsna book. Our farm of 200 acres

has been evaluated to have a sustainable herd of 8 refreshed cows per year, a

herd of 120. Melbourne temple and it's restaurants use 100 kg of ghee per week

which would require a milking herd of 35, so you can see how difficult it is

to equate our apparent inadequacies to the expectation of the temple devotees

who, after reading the Krsna book, cannot understand our performance levels.

 

Comment:

In this regard there are four things to do, in order of importance;

1. Institute a strong practice of full sadhana for each individual resident of

the community. Including harinam on at least a weekly basis if not daily.

2. Engage every living entity; human, animal and plant according to its

propensity, in Lord Krsna’s service. No one should be idle, engaged in

activities that do not glorify the Lord or in pursuance thereof. Everything

and everyone has a function and should be used to their maximum extent.

3. Increase the fertility by composting (on the cropland) and introducing

rapid rotational grazing (on the hay and pasture lands) along with a holistic

form of agriculture.

4. Obtain more land, develop it agriculturally and ecologically so that the

brahmanas have full facility. DO NOT BECOME A SUBURBIA PARK. Become a village

where Krsna’s name rings throughout the leys … Gita Nagari. It is not just in

Pennsylavia but at every ISKCON farm that Srila Prabhupada’s writing of that

village apply.

 

Ys,

Rohita dasa

[Guest guest]

>"COM: Gokula das (New Nandagram - AU)" <Gokula.das (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

>Gokula.das (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se, Cow (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se,

>Varnasrama.development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se

>"WWW: Janesvara (Dasa) ACBSP (Syracuse - USA)" <jdf1 (AT) stsi (DOT) net>,

>"COM: Cow (Protection and related issues)" <Cow (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>, "COM:

>Varnasrama development" <Varnasrama.development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

>Re: Cowslaughter in ISKCON?

>Wed, 5 May 99 11:39 +1100

>

>[Text 2290152 from COM]

>

 

>Janesvara wrote

> >

> > No. His wealth was from working his devotee butt off. Perspiration. And

> > emplying thousands and thousands of others in the milk production

> > "business" or whatever name you want to give it. Nanda had a million

>cows!

 

Therefore, there was no enemployment. We shouldn't think working our butts

off an

unpleasant thing, what is really unpleasant is being without work, it means

trouble for

men and animals.

 

Prabhupada: This is the cycle, that we should produce immense food grain

both for the

animals and for men. And there should be cooperation. Just like the cow and

bull. The

bull helps plowing. That is the original system. Now they have invented

tractors, what

is called? Tractor?

Madhudvisa: Cultivators.

Prabhupada: And the bulls are being killed. Why they should be killed?

Engage them in

tilling the field. They will have occupation. And the man also will have

occupation.

There is immense land. So there will be no question of unemployment. And the

machine, it works hundreds of men's labor and hundreds of men become

unemployed.

So unemployed means devil's workshop.

 

 

> > Do you realize how many gallons of milk, pounds of butter, curd and

>yogurt

> > that is daily? Was he just throwing the milk on the ground? I doubt it.

> > How many residents of Vrindavana were there? Certainly not even close to

> > enough to consume tis amount of milk products. Wouldn't it seem common

> > sense that Nanda was serving his king faithfully and producing the milk

> > required by the inhabitants of the nearby cities who could not produce

> > milk in the city? And the king was assuring Nanda that all of his

> > necessities were taken care of and much more in the way of wealth? It

>was

> > a gigantic enterprise the likes of which we do not even see nowadays. A

> > MILLION cows! How many millions of acres of land were being managed?

> > Employees? Hard work every single day.

 

 

No, not every single day: Srila

Prabhupada: Life should be

conducted in such a way that our necessities of life may come not with

great effort, easily, easily. We should not encumber ourself, our life,

living policy, in an

encumbered way. Then our spiritual progress will be hampered. The modern

society

has practically encumbered the whole human activities, and therefore they

have no time

for spiritual culture. You see? But the conception of Vedic civilization was

that people

used to be satisfied on agricultural produce and for three months working

during rainy

season.

So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So

nine

months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months

they used

to work for accumulating their foodstuff.

 

Srila Prabhupada: So as we till our land and gets foodstuff according to my

labor,

according to my

intelligence... Food grains I can produce once twice, thrice, if I work

hard. Generally,

they work two times: three months, three months. And those who are very

lazy, they

work three months. But even working for three months, they can aquire

foodstuffs for

the whole year. That I have seen. So similarly, as we get some land and work

for

ourself

>I agree certainly work for everybody

 

If we're satisfied with the basic necessities of life, then its indicated

here that 3 months

work is sufficient.

> > Or do we not really believe this?

 

Its not a question of believing, these are the vedic histories. Its just

hard to understand

how it works because its so foreign to our kali-yuga situation. That

shouldn't make us

frightened to take it up. That's what "having faith in the words of the

spiritual master" is

all about.

>

>Our farm of 200 acres has been evaluated to have a sustainable herd of 8

>refreshed cows per year, a herd of 120. Melbourne temple and it's

>restaurants use 100 kg of ghee per week which would require a milking herd

>of 35, so you can see how difficult it is to equate our apparent

>inadequacies to the expectation of the temple devotees who, after reading

>the Krsna book, cannot understand our performance levels.

 

Those devotees should read another part of the Srimad Bhagavatam, where it

describes

the effects of Kali-yuga...

>These effects, as we know, can be held back by the potency of the

>sankirtana

movement, whose potency comes from strictly adhering to the instructions of

our

spiritual master, otherwise its the 3rd offense, and the mantra will not

take effect (18

days, strictly following, everyone,~ world take-over!)

If 35 milking cows from your farm supplied 100kg of ghee to the restaurants,

the money

from purchasing this ghee, as well as the money from selling the leftover

cream-reduced

milk and yoghurt, should be put into purchasing more land for the cows. That

was Srila

Prabhupada's solution- I'll find the exact quote for you. Unless there is

guarantee this will

happen- and the prices are adjusted accordingly to allow for lifetime

protection- than its

better to just breed enough for one's needs, and have the bullocks plough

and produce

the other necessities. This is probably the safest road, and the one Srila

Prabhupada

repeatedly requested us to do, as compared to the commercial idea, which he

gave

concession to IF the money was used to purchase land(so far it's never

happened in

ISKCON). It would also require plenty of trained-up vaisyas to engage the

bullocks-

otherwise they'll be a burden. This is a fact whether you're breeding 35 or

1.

fuePrabhupada: Bull will not supply milk, so there is no use. It must be

killed.

Otherwise they are ferocious animal. You have made this law. The cows may be

given

some time to be killed, but the bulls should be killed immediately. This is

their law.

Hari-sauri: Nor do the farmers actually want to keep them anyway.

Prabhupada: No.

Hari-sauri: They are useless animals.

Prabhupada: Simply expensive. But here in India they know how to utilize

bulls--for

transportation, for plowing and so many other things.

Tamala Krsna: Such a shortage of fuel, but there is no shortage of fuel with

a bull.

Prabhupada: No, rather, it will supply you gobar, fuel. Whatever he will

eat, he will

give l.

 

YS, Niscala.

 

 

 

 

 

____

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[Guest guest]

>"COM: Gokula das (New Nandagram - AU)" <Gokula.das (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

>Gokula.das (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se, Cow (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se,

>Varnasrama.development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se

>"WWW: Janesvara (Dasa) ACBSP (Syracuse - USA)" <jdf1 (AT) stsi (DOT) net>,

>"COM: Cow (Protection and related issues)" <Cow (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>, "COM:

>Varnasrama development" <Varnasrama.development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

>Re: Cowslaughter in ISKCON?

>Wed, 5 May 99 11:39 +1100

>

>[Text 2290152 from COM]

>

 

>Janesvara wrote

> >

> > No. His wealth was from working his devotee butt off. Perspiration. And

> > emplying thousands and thousands of others in the milk production

> > "business" or whatever name you want to give it. Nanda had a million

>cows!

 

Therefore, there was no enemployment. We shouldn't think working our butts

off an

unpleasant thing, what is really unpleasant is being without work, it means

trouble for

men and animals.

 

Prabhupada: This is the cycle, that we should produce immense food grain

both for the

animals and for men. And there should be cooperation. Just like the cow and

bull. The

bull helps plowing. That is the original system. Now they have invented

tractors, what

is called? Tractor?

Madhudvisa: Cultivators.

Prabhupada: And the bulls are being killed. Why they should be killed?

Engage them in

tilling the field. They will have occupation. And the man also will have

occupation.

There is immense land. So there will be no question of unemployment. And the

machine, it works hundreds of men's labor and hundreds of men become

unemployed.

So unemployed means devil's workshop.

 

 

> > Do you realize how many gallons of milk, pounds of butter, curd and

>yogurt

> > that is daily? Was he just throwing the milk on the ground? I doubt it.

> > How many residents of Vrindavana were there? Certainly not even close to

> > enough to consume tis amount of milk products. Wouldn't it seem common

> > sense that Nanda was serving his king faithfully and producing the milk

> > required by the inhabitants of the nearby cities who could not produce

> > milk in the city? And the king was assuring Nanda that all of his

> > necessities were taken care of and much more in the way of wealth? It

>was

> > a gigantic enterprise the likes of which we do not even see nowadays. A

> > MILLION cows! How many millions of acres of land were being managed?

> > Employees? Hard work every single day.

 

 

No, not every single day: Srila

Prabhupada: Life should be

conducted in such a way that our necessities of life may come not with

great effort, easily, easily. We should not encumber ourself, our life,

living policy, in an

encumbered way. Then our spiritual progress will be hampered. The modern

society

has practically encumbered the whole human activities, and therefore they

have no time

for spiritual culture. You see? But the conception of Vedic civilization was

that people

used to be satisfied on agricultural produce and for three months working

during rainy

season.

So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So

nine

months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months

they used

to work for accumulating their foodstuff.

 

Srila Prabhupada: So as we till our land and gets foodstuff according to my

labor,

according to my

intelligence... Food grains I can produce once twice, thrice, if I work

hard. Generally,

they work two times: three months, three months. And those who are very

lazy, they

work three months. But even working for three months, they can aquire

foodstuffs for

the whole year. That I have seen. So similarly, as we get some land and work

for

ourself

>I agree certainly work for everybody

 

If we're satisfied with the basic necessities of life, then its indicated

here that 3 months

work is sufficient.

> > Or do we not really believe this?

 

Its not a question of believing, these are the vedic histories. Its just

hard to understand

how it works because its so foreign to our kali-yuga situation. That

shouldn't make us

frightened to take it up. That's what "having faith in the words of the

spiritual master" is

all about.

>

>Our farm of 200 acres has been evaluated to have a sustainable herd of 8

>refreshed cows per year, a herd of 120. Melbourne temple and it's

>restaurants use 100 kg of ghee per week which would require a milking herd

>of 35, so you can see how difficult it is to equate our apparent

>inadequacies to the expectation of the temple devotees who, after reading

>the Krsna book, cannot understand our performance levels.

 

Those devotees should read another part of the Srimad Bhagavatam, where it

describes

the effects of Kali-yuga...

>These effects, as we know, can be held back by the potency of the

>sankirtana

movement, whose potency comes from strictly adhering to the instructions of

our

spiritual master, otherwise its the 3rd offense, and the mantra will not

take effect (18

days, strictly following, everyone,~ world take-over!)

If 35 milking cows from your farm supplied 100kg of ghee to the restaurants,

the money

from purchasing this ghee, as well as the money from selling the leftover

cream-reduced

milk and yoghurt, should be put into purchasing more land for the cows. That

was Srila

Prabhupada's solution- I'll find the exact quote for you. Unless there is

guarantee this will

happen- and the prices are adjusted accordingly to allow for lifetime

protection- than its

better to just breed enough for one's needs, and have the bullocks plough

and produce

the other necessities. This is probably the safest road, and the one Srila

Prabhupada

repeatedly requested us to do, as compared to the commercial idea, which he

gave

concession to IF the money was used to purchase land(so far it's never

happened in

ISKCON). It would also require plenty of trained-up vaisyas to engage the

bullocks-

otherwise they'll be a burden. This is a fact whether you're breeding 35 or

1.

fuePrabhupada: Bull will not supply milk, so there is no use. It must be

killed.

Otherwise they are ferocious animal. You have made this law. The cows may be

given

some time to be killed, but the bulls should be killed immediately. This is

their law.

Hari-sauri: Nor do the farmers actually want to keep them anyway.

Prabhupada: No.

Hari-sauri: They are useless animals.

Prabhupada: Simply expensive. But here in India they know how to utilize

bulls--for

transportation, for plowing and so many other things.

Tamala Krsna: Such a shortage of fuel, but there is no shortage of fuel with

a bull.

Prabhupada: No, rather, it will supply you gobar, fuel. Whatever he will

eat, he will

give l.

 

YS, Niscala.

 

 

 

 

 

____

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

> If Nanda maharaja was able to utilise all of Vrindavan, 64 square miles,

> and was keeping 900 thousand cows then he was maintaining 55 cows to the

> hectare.

 

Actualy it is described that the transcendental Vraja mandal is like a

lotus, which opens and closes. When we were on the Vraja Parikrama we found

that there were some places where Lord Krsna would walk to meet Radha or

other sakhis. Often such walks would have taken half a day in the mundane

estimation, and this did not tally with the actual pastimes. So we concluded

that actualy vraja distances are flexible.

 

In any case it is an offence to attempt to measure the dham. Also we should

remember that these werent your average heifers, these were wish fulfilling

surabhi's, so modern calculations might not suffice.

 

But yep, Lotta cows.

 

Sd

[Guest guest]

> If Nanda maharaja was able to utilise all of Vrindavan, 64 square miles,

> and was keeping 900 thousand cows then he was maintaining 55 cows to the

> hectare.

 

Actualy it is described that the transcendental Vraja mandal is like a

lotus, which opens and closes. When we were on the Vraja Parikrama we found

that there were some places where Lord Krsna would walk to meet Radha or

other sakhis. Often such walks would have taken half a day in the mundane

estimation, and this did not tally with the actual pastimes. So we concluded

that actualy vraja distances are flexible.

 

In any case it is an offence to attempt to measure the dham. Also we should

remember that these werent your average heifers, these were wish fulfilling

surabhi's, so modern calculations might not suffice.

 

But yep, Lotta cows.

 

Sd

[Guest guest]

On 05 May 1999, Noelene Hawkins wrote:

 

> > Hard work every single day.

 

 

> No, not every single day:

 

 

So, who milks the cows twice a day every day?

 

 

> So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So

 

> nine

> months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months

> they used

> to work for accumulating their foodstuff.

 

 

We have a hard time practicing "spiritual activities" for two hours a day. I

can't imagine the lazy slobs that would develop in nine months.

 

In my opinion our motto should be: Work hard everyday and chant Hare Krsna

while doing it.

 

 

 

> Srila Prabhupada: So as we till our land and gets foodstuff according to my

> labor,

> according to my

> intelligence... Food grains I can produce once twice, thrice, if I work

> hard. Generally,

> they work two times: three months, three months.

 

 

Many growing seasons are about six months long. It makes sense.

 

 

> And those who are very

> lazy, they

> work three months.

 

 

Let's not be any lazier than we already are.

 

 

>But even working for three months, they can aquire

> foodstuffs for

> the whole year. That I have seen.

 

 

There are plenty of other activities to raise the perspiration levels

year-round.

[Guest guest]

On 05 May 1999, Noelene Hawkins wrote:

 

> > Hard work every single day.

 

 

> No, not every single day:

 

 

So, who milks the cows twice a day every day?

 

 

> So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So

 

> nine

> months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months

> they used

> to work for accumulating their foodstuff.

 

 

We have a hard time practicing "spiritual activities" for two hours a day. I

can't imagine the lazy slobs that would develop in nine months.

 

In my opinion our motto should be: Work hard everyday and chant Hare Krsna

while doing it.

 

 

 

> Srila Prabhupada: So as we till our land and gets foodstuff according to my

> labor,

> according to my

> intelligence... Food grains I can produce once twice, thrice, if I work

> hard. Generally,

> they work two times: three months, three months.

 

 

Many growing seasons are about six months long. It makes sense.

 

 

> And those who are very

> lazy, they

> work three months.

 

 

Let's not be any lazier than we already are.

 

 

>But even working for three months, they can aquire

> foodstuffs for

> the whole year. That I have seen.

 

 

There are plenty of other activities to raise the perspiration levels

year-round.

[Guest guest]

"WWW: Janesvara (Dasa) ACBSP (Syracuse - USA)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2294912 from COM]

>

> On 05 May 1999, Noelene Hawkins wrote:

>

> > > Hard work every single day.

>

>

> > No, not every single day:

>

> So, who milks the cows twice a day every day?

 

This is really bewildering. I thought this was a Prabhupada quote. Am I

mistaken? Or are you actually refuting Srila Prabhupada point-by-point?

What's

going on here? Can you please set me straight on this?

 

ys,

 

hkdd

 

>

>

> > So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year.

So

>

> > nine

> > months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months

> > they used

> > to work for accumulating their foodstuff.

>

> We have a hard time practicing "spiritual activities" for two hours a day. I

> can't imagine the lazy slobs that would develop in nine months.

>

> In my opinion our motto should be: Work hard everyday and chant Hare Krsna

> while doing it.

>

> > Srila Prabhupada: So as we till our land and gets foodstuff according to my

> > labor,

> > according to my

> > intelligence... Food grains I can produce once twice, thrice, if I work

> > hard. Generally,

> > they work two times: three months, three months.

>

> Many growing seasons are about six months long. It makes sense.

>

> > And those who are very

> > lazy, they

> > work three months.

>

> Let's not be any lazier than we already are.

>

> >But even working for three months, they can aquire

> > foodstuffs for

> > the whole year. That I have seen.

>

> There are plenty of other activities to raise the perspiration levels

> year-round.

[Guest guest]

"WWW: Janesvara (Dasa) ACBSP (Syracuse - USA)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2294912 from COM]

>

> On 05 May 1999, Noelene Hawkins wrote:

>

> > > Hard work every single day.

>

>

> > No, not every single day:

>

> So, who milks the cows twice a day every day?

 

This is really bewildering. I thought this was a Prabhupada quote. Am I

mistaken? Or are you actually refuting Srila Prabhupada point-by-point?

What's

going on here? Can you please set me straight on this?

 

ys,

 

hkdd

 

>

>

> > So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year.

So

>

> > nine

> > months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months

> > they used

> > to work for accumulating their foodstuff.

>

> We have a hard time practicing "spiritual activities" for two hours a day. I

> can't imagine the lazy slobs that would develop in nine months.

>

> In my opinion our motto should be: Work hard everyday and chant Hare Krsna

> while doing it.

>

> > Srila Prabhupada: So as we till our land and gets foodstuff according to my

> > labor,

> > according to my

> > intelligence... Food grains I can produce once twice, thrice, if I work

> > hard. Generally,

> > they work two times: three months, three months.

>

> Many growing seasons are about six months long. It makes sense.

>

> > And those who are very

> > lazy, they

> > work three months.

>

> Let's not be any lazier than we already are.

>

> >But even working for three months, they can aquire

> > foodstuffs for

> > the whole year. That I have seen.

>

> There are plenty of other activities to raise the perspiration levels

> year-round.

[Guest guest]

On 06 May 1999, Hare Krsna dasi wrote:

 

 

> > > No, not every single day:

> >

> > So, who milks the cows twice a day every day?

>

 

> This is really bewildering. I thought this was a Prabhupada quote. Am I

> mistaken? Or are you actually refuting Srila Prabhupada point-by-point?

> What's

> going on here? Can you please set me straight on this?

 

 

An innocent question really. No real reason to be so smug, I don't think? If

you are going to accuse me of refuting Srila Prabhupada please show me

directly.

 

The comment tree went something like the following:

 

I stated:

 

..Hard work every single day.

 

Niscala stated:

No, not every single day.

 

Then quoted the following from Srila Prabhupada:

" Srila Prabhupada: Life should be conducted in such a way that our

necessities of life may come not with great effort, easily, easily. We should

not encumber ourself, our life, living policy, in an

encumbered way. Then our spiritual progress will be hampered. The modern

society

has practically encumbered the whole human activities, and therefore they have

no time

for spiritual culture. You see? But the conception of Vedic civilization was

that people

used to be satisfied on agricultural produce and for three months working

during rainy

season.

So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So

nine

months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months

they used

to work for accumulating their foodstuff."

 

I cannot find in this quote where it says that we do not work everyday. In an

"ideal" Vedic situation we may not have to "accumulate foodstuff" every single

day of the year, but does that mean that there are not many other prescribed

duties to be performed everyday? Like milking the cows? Cleaning temples,

homes, barns, streets, parks, lakes, forests. Planting trees, digging wells,

managing people, building temples, homes, barns, etc.

 

Does "free to advance in spiritual culture" mean we sit on our duffs for nine

months? Isn't hard work for Krsna "advancing in spiritual culture"?

 

 

"Srila Prabhupada: Yes. This is poverty, why is there poverty? Because they

are not producing food. Everyone wants so-called comfortable life, so-called

education, sitting idle in the table and chair and talking all gossips and

nonsense and sleeping. They are being trained up in this way — sudra.

 

Hrdayananda Goswami: So they should be trained to rise early.

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, if you keep healthy then you will naturally rise early.

But because you have lost all stamina therefore sleeping is your only

business. Sleeping means for the weak. And for the strong, perspiration.

This is the sign. When a man sleeps too much he is weak in his health. And a

strong man, he will perspire."

[Guest guest]

On 06 May 1999, Hare Krsna dasi wrote:

 

 

> > > No, not every single day:

> >

> > So, who milks the cows twice a day every day?

>

 

> This is really bewildering. I thought this was a Prabhupada quote. Am I

> mistaken? Or are you actually refuting Srila Prabhupada point-by-point?

> What's

> going on here? Can you please set me straight on this?

 

 

An innocent question really. No real reason to be so smug, I don't think? If

you are going to accuse me of refuting Srila Prabhupada please show me

directly.

 

The comment tree went something like the following:

 

I stated:

 

..Hard work every single day.

 

Niscala stated:

No, not every single day.

 

Then quoted the following from Srila Prabhupada:

" Srila Prabhupada: Life should be conducted in such a way that our

necessities of life may come not with great effort, easily, easily. We should

not encumber ourself, our life, living policy, in an

encumbered way. Then our spiritual progress will be hampered. The modern

society

has practically encumbered the whole human activities, and therefore they have

no time

for spiritual culture. You see? But the conception of Vedic civilization was

that people

used to be satisfied on agricultural produce and for three months working

during rainy

season.

So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So

nine

months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months

they used

to work for accumulating their foodstuff."

 

I cannot find in this quote where it says that we do not work everyday. In an

"ideal" Vedic situation we may not have to "accumulate foodstuff" every single

day of the year, but does that mean that there are not many other prescribed

duties to be performed everyday? Like milking the cows? Cleaning temples,

homes, barns, streets, parks, lakes, forests. Planting trees, digging wells,

managing people, building temples, homes, barns, etc.

 

Does "free to advance in spiritual culture" mean we sit on our duffs for nine

months? Isn't hard work for Krsna "advancing in spiritual culture"?

 

 

"Srila Prabhupada: Yes. This is poverty, why is there poverty? Because they

are not producing food. Everyone wants so-called comfortable life, so-called

education, sitting idle in the table and chair and talking all gossips and

nonsense and sleeping. They are being trained up in this way — sudra.

 

Hrdayananda Goswami: So they should be trained to rise early.

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, if you keep healthy then you will naturally rise early.

But because you have lost all stamina therefore sleeping is your only

business. Sleeping means for the weak. And for the strong, perspiration.

This is the sign. When a man sleeps too much he is weak in his health. And a

strong man, he will perspire."

[Guest guest]

Prabhus,

We have had experience of many of the problems under discussion in recent

times. Cows died prematurely, blood milk was bought and there was no great

level of active farming at our centre. Since ten years ago when my husband

and myself moved to another area, the land has practically stood still.

There have been attempts by good hearted devotees to establish, re-establish

and so on, but I am in total agreement, it is hard work! It seems that there

is a sad lack of Dharma or duty regarding the land. It is a practical thing

needing practical application and hard work. It is something not only for

agriculturists (who we have heard of as being looked down on), but for all

devotees. Man, woman and child. This takes sincerity and committment. My

husband and myself do not feel looked down upon. In fact younger devotees

come and ask advice about many things including the land and cows. We pace

ourselves as we have to make it through this for the rest of our lives in

this body. If someone is looking down on me, then that is their mercy that I

am not going to become puffed up. Indeed if people were to try to insult me,

they couldn't. I was born less than sudra as are most in this age. We know

nothing of varna or ashrama and only gain what little we have by Srila

Prabhupada's endless mercy. To a great extent we are still struggling just

like children. But someday we must grow up and not always look to others for

sorting our problems. Everyone must look to themself.

 

In just over one and a half years since we are back, every devotee is

interested, some are actively working plots, and we're getting on with our

duty which is our preaching and our service and we enjoy it! We are not

perfect and we make mistakes, but we learn from them and so it goes on.So

devotees should look to themselves more, their inter devotee relationships

and look to setting a standard of example which will inspire others into

action. Good leadership is contagious and so is positive service attitude.

If devotees are buying milk, then offering it, there is purification by

paying of laxmi. (Srila Prabhupada referrs to this purification in Sri

Siksamrta). However if devotees can avail of Cow protected, bhakti-service

produced milk, then they should be honourable and do so. It's a matter of

honour and a matter of duty. There should be realistic measures attached to

this also. Devotees should not keep pet cows for the sake of it, it should

be real. However devotees should be practical and not overproduce cows in

any kind of initial enthusiasm. It should be steady production and to the

cowherder's ability to take care of them. Any devotee who has maintained

this service is worthy of praise, but individual devotees should be informed

that taking care of a cow for Krsna is similar to rearing a child. Indeed my

children are leaving quicker than our cows! They may go on travelling

sankirtana but the cow will stay with you. This is fine if you have real

faith that this agricultural way of life in Krsna Consciousness is what you

really want as a service, and what Srila Prabhupada wanted of his disciples.

And if it is, then you work it until you drop. If you care for Krsna's land

and cows He will certainly be there with you at the time of death.

Technology or not, it's what you do with your life's mission that counts.

Re-educate within your community and do your service and Krsna will take

care of you. All glories to Sri Govinda.

 

your servant

Ananda Maya dd

[Guest guest]

Prabhus,

We have had experience of many of the problems under discussion in recent

times. Cows died prematurely, blood milk was bought and there was no great

level of active farming at our centre. Since ten years ago when my husband

and myself moved to another area, the land has practically stood still.

There have been attempts by good hearted devotees to establish, re-establish

and so on, but I am in total agreement, it is hard work! It seems that there

is a sad lack of Dharma or duty regarding the land. It is a practical thing

needing practical application and hard work. It is something not only for

agriculturists (who we have heard of as being looked down on), but for all

devotees. Man, woman and child. This takes sincerity and committment. My

husband and myself do not feel looked down upon. In fact younger devotees

come and ask advice about many things including the land and cows. We pace

ourselves as we have to make it through this for the rest of our lives in

this body. If someone is looking down on me, then that is their mercy that I

am not going to become puffed up. Indeed if people were to try to insult me,

they couldn't. I was born less than sudra as are most in this age. We know

nothing of varna or ashrama and only gain what little we have by Srila

Prabhupada's endless mercy. To a great extent we are still struggling just

like children. But someday we must grow up and not always look to others for

sorting our problems. Everyone must look to themself.

 

In just over one and a half years since we are back, every devotee is

interested, some are actively working plots, and we're getting on with our

duty which is our preaching and our service and we enjoy it! We are not

perfect and we make mistakes, but we learn from them and so it goes on.So

devotees should look to themselves more, their inter devotee relationships

and look to setting a standard of example which will inspire others into

action. Good leadership is contagious and so is positive service attitude.

If devotees are buying milk, then offering it, there is purification by

paying of laxmi. (Srila Prabhupada referrs to this purification in Sri

Siksamrta). However if devotees can avail of Cow protected, bhakti-service

produced milk, then they should be honourable and do so. It's a matter of

honour and a matter of duty. There should be realistic measures attached to

this also. Devotees should not keep pet cows for the sake of it, it should

be real. However devotees should be practical and not overproduce cows in

any kind of initial enthusiasm. It should be steady production and to the

cowherder's ability to take care of them. Any devotee who has maintained

this service is worthy of praise, but individual devotees should be informed

that taking care of a cow for Krsna is similar to rearing a child. Indeed my

children are leaving quicker than our cows! They may go on travelling

sankirtana but the cow will stay with you. This is fine if you have real

faith that this agricultural way of life in Krsna Consciousness is what you

really want as a service, and what Srila Prabhupada wanted of his disciples.

And if it is, then you work it until you drop. If you care for Krsna's land

and cows He will certainly be there with you at the time of death.

Technology or not, it's what you do with your life's mission that counts.

Re-educate within your community and do your service and Krsna will take

care of you. All glories to Sri Govinda.

 

your servant

Ananda Maya dd