Desires/ Happiness

[Guest guest]

Here is a message from Swami Sivanandaji Maharaj, which might answer some of the

questions under discussion.

 

ELEVATING THE CONSCIOUSNESS: A visitor asked the

Master, "Why is it that sometimes the consciousness

rises to a high level, during which we can see and

experience many things, and then it comes down again?

Why is it that we cannot retain the consciousness at

the same level?"

 

The Master replied, "During the time when the mind is

Sattwic you get this elevated consciousness. But due

to the forces of Rajas and Tamas and the

undercurrents and desires in the mind, your

consciousness comes down. Do more Sadhana. Develop

dispassion. The more the desires are thinned out, the

more the mind will be filled with Sattwa. It will be

steady like a light in a windless place. During

holidays you can come and remain here and enjoy

Satsang and seclusion. You can do more Sadhana. A

little observance of silence, a little Pranayama, a

little seclusion--these are all aids."

 

--------------------

 

"The Divine Name is God Himself manifest as a

spiritual force. God and His Name are one. He who

clings to the Divine Name verily clings to the Lord

Himself. The Divine Name shall take you across the

ocean of Samsara. The Divine Name shall bestow upon

you freedom from births and deaths." - Swami

Sivananda

 

Hari Om

 

 

-

"pradeep8_56" <no_reply>

<>

10 September, 2003 1:52 PM

Re: Desires/ Happiness

 

 

Does it mean that without their

> mercy, we cannot even remember God. Are we so helpless? Is there a

> way out ?

>

> Pradeep

>

> , "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote:

> >

> > I don't feel we are free to choose our desires. They are

> > determined by the baggage we bring with us - the karmic baggage of

> > samskaras and vasanas.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

As has been pointed out by various sadhaks, we find a lot of

support for the view that we have no free will, and that desires are

fueled by our past cummulative karma.

 

In that case, can we "Do" more sadhna unless we Desire it, which in

turn depends on our baggage (karmic) that we arrive with? Is it

possible to make one self "Do" something if all depends on the will

of "God"? Further, is it possible to take a seed of desire we may

have and consciously make ourselves do more?

 

Can totally new desires be created or are they in some way always

related to our past?

 

I suppose being a product of the modern world, I am having trouble

giving up ALL control over my life!!! )

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

, SRI RADHA KUTIR <radhaktr@v...>

wrote:

> Here is a message from Swami Sivanandaji Maharaj, which might

>answer some of the questions under discussion.

...........

> The Master replied, ...... Do more Sadhana. Develop

> dispassion.

[Guest guest]

The view that we have no free will seems pretty pessimistic to me. I

agree that there are a lot of things over which we have no control

but I like to believe that there are also many things which we can

control. I believe that we are responsible for our destiny and we

have the power to change it even if past actions have already formed

a destiny karma for us. New actions can nullify the effects of

previous actions. Dont we read so often that pranayama and mantras

have the power to cleanse the causal and etheric body of its

impurities and stored karmas? I would go further and say that even

the mere power of our thoughts and our mind can change our destiny.

This is how many people who have no idea of mantra and meditation do

it, through the power of mind, will and firm belief (faith). Firm

beliefs create thoughtforms which sooner or later (and if they are

magnetised strong enough) will manifest themself in the physical or

material world.

 

Dear Uma! I am also having trouble in giving up control over my

life!!! LOL

 

Its all in the mind I think, desires, karmas, control...etc

 

Regards

[Guest guest]

I think we have to understand what we mean by the statement that "we have no

free will" and every thing in life is predestined.

 

The situations, pleasant or unpleasant, that we face in life, occur as a result

of our past actions or Prarabdha Karma, over which we have no control in our

present manifestation. But how we respond to those situations determines the

road map for our future incarnations. To this extent we can say that we have the

power to change our destiny. But if we become a 'Karta' or doer, we cannot

escape the 'Bhokta' or enjoyer aspect of our actions. That means to enjoy or

suffer the fruits of our present actions we must take another birth and this

goes on and on endlessly.

 

We also know that the purpose of human birth is to end this unending cyclic

phenomenon of birth and death. So while doing actions how do we achieve this

goal? The trick is that we do not become responsible for our actions, actions we

must do but surrender our ego of doership at the feet of the Lord.

 

In addition to Prarabdha, we also have a stock of Sanchit Karma, about which we

know nothing at the present moment. But effect of these two sets up a general

direction or a course that our lives, present and future, are going to follow.

The Lord sitting in the heart is fully aware of this and He makes sure that the

path destined for us is strictly adhered to. This He does by controlling our

thought process and using the external forces. We all may have experienced in

life that we wish to do something but we meet road blocks against our will that

obstructs the fulfillment of those desires. That is the Lord's way of keeping us

on the destined path.

 

>From the above explanation we can see that while we have a free will to act or

react but that free will is encased in a 'no free will' so to say because for

the Lord our destiny is more important than our free will. Therefore there is a

free will within no free will, if you like.

 

I think it shall be appropriate here to quote the three verses from the Gita:

 

(Gita Ch. 18, vs. 61)

The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the

wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as though on a machine, made

of material energy (i.e. Maya).

 

(Gita Ch. 2, vs.. 47)

Your right is to work only, but never to the fruits thereof. Be not instrumental

in making your actions bear fruit (i.e. don't assume doership of your actions),

nor let your attachment be to inaction.

 

How to do actions? (Gita Ch. 8, vs.. 7)

Therefore, O Arjuna, you should always think of Me and at the same time carry

out your prescribed duty of fighting (life is a battlefield or "Karmabhumi").

With your activities dedicated to Me and your mind and intelligence fixed upon

Me, you will attain Me without doubt.

--

Hari Om

radhakutir

 

 

-

"swapneshwari" <swapneshwari

<>

29 September, 2003 7:07 PM

Re: Desires/ Happiness

 

 

> The view that we have no free will seems pretty pessimistic to me. I

> agree that there are a lot of things over which we have no control

> but I like to believe that there are also many things which we can

> control. I believe that we are responsible for our destiny and we

> have the power to change it even if past actions have already formed

> a destiny karma for us.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

swapneshwari!!!

 

This is the crux of sadhana. The ability to let go of our need to be

in control, forms the foundation of our spiritual journey. Saints to

sages to true sadhaks, all live and speak of this important aspect

of sadhana. They will say, even the bubble of thought to do or not

to do something is a result of one's past actions. Yes, power of

thought creates changes by leaps and bounds, but the initial desire

to "do", to "act" upon the thought, and pursue the change is a

result of our past actions.

 

As one teacher pointed out, while it may seem incredible to us, but

if we could see a log of ALL out past actions, I'm sure nothing

happening today will come as a surprise!!!!

 

On one hand its scary.. or pessimistic, on the other hand think

about it .. what a relief .. I don't have to do the driving .. if

only I can allow the Universal Intelligence to take the reins of my

chariot, ride along, keeping my eyes on the destination and

performing whatever actions i "think" about taking!!!

 

Question is .. what stops me from giving up the drivers seat?? And

even if i know it why can't i give it up?

 

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

, "swapneshwari" <swapneshwari>

> Dont we read so often that pranayama and mantras

> have the power to cleanse the causal and etheric body of its

> impurities and stored karmas?

[Guest guest]

Tatwamasi, thanks for your nice reply.

 

On one hand its scary.. or pessimistic, on the other hand think

> about it .. what a relief .. I don't have to do the driving .. if

> only I can allow the Universal Intelligence to take the reins of my

> chariot, ride along, keeping my eyes on the destination and

> performing whatever actions i "think" about taking!!!

 

I think that to reach this state of constant communion with the

Universal Intelligence, I am going to need many more years! Thats why

I prefer not to adopt this kind of attitude that "God will take care

of everything". This doesnt mean that I dont believe in the wisdom

and the laws of our universe. However, i find that true surrender to

the "universal intelligence" can be expected only by very advanced

sadhakas. The rest of us often tends to put the blame on ones bad

karma (without even knowing if thats true or not)when things are not

well , or we often hope that god must give us what we want, without

any effort from our side. I mean, if someone has such a guru who will

take care of his karmic bills... or if one has truly constant access

to the akashic recs and the divine planes (hope i am not mystifing

things again...LOL) then one surely can surrender to God. Faith has

got to be spiritually justified, otherwise its a solely blind one.

Hm... of cource thats again an extreme way to put it.

 

Theres a proverb of the ancient greeks which summarises this topic in

a nice way:

"Along with the Gods you must also move your hand."

Namaste

[Guest guest]

> Theres a proverb of the ancient greeks which summarises this topic

>in a nice way:

> "Along with the Gods you must also move your hand."

 

As one of my Guruji's point out to me, when I get too argumentative

for my own good, you will move your hand only when you are ready to

do so!!! Needless to say, this line of thinking triggers my

argumentative nature. And as far as Gurus absorbing ones Karmic

debts, even that is dependant on ones Karma!!!

 

If we look at ourselves even from the point of Gunas, the qualities

of Rajasic (action) Sattwic (truth centered) and Tamasic (inertia,

ignorance) we know that the baggage we come with includes a certain

combination of these three according to our past karma.

 

http://www.auroville.org/vision/gunas/gunas_0.htm

 

I agree, TOTAL surrender is still far away for me too.

 

"The life-power in earthly beings is possessed by the force of

desire." It doesn't mean desire is the problem; it remains our

attachment to its results and expectations therein, that keeps us

bound to the cycle of life and death. Of course some may not be

interested in breaking that cycle at all .. much of the world is

pretty cool.. - natural beauty, man made beauty, rituals,

relationships (when its going good ) acheivement, success etc. Its

only when one begins to expect this to be a permanent thing that the

rest of the story becomes evident. But that is something one has to

experience and become aware, it can't be forced on someone. For that

purpose as far as the Yoga paths go, there is the perfectly valid

Path of Desire .. Pravritti Marga (posts 3106-7).

 

To date my experiential conclusion remains that if we are able to

ALLOW the universal Intelligence to operate, and do whatever is in

our "hands" and release our attachment to the result accepting it to

be appropriate, life seems to work in the smoothest manner.

 

>From my discussions with those who attempt to live this way, (as

constrast with higher souls who are able to surrender totally) the

hardest part of this after one decides to "move one's hand", is

the "hand" itself - how do we identify what is in our hand, and how

much, if at all, of anxiety do we need to go through to find out

what is in our "hand".

 

Makes for interesing food for thought.. isnt it ..

 

_/\_ tat twam asi

 

Uma

[Guest guest]

Namaste group,

 

I have been away for quite some time, and am realy happy to see this

ongoing discussion.

 

This is really an interesting discussion on whether we can actually

control our destiny or not.

 

Sri Satya Sai Baba said the following in one of his lectures ( I do

not have the exact text and am writing in my own words. I am writing

the gist of it from my memory).

By controlling our thoughts, we can change our actions. By changing

our actions, we change our character. By changing our character, we

can change our destiny. Thus by controlling our thoughts we can

control our destiny.(this is not the exact sequence. I'll try to find

it and post it in the next few days).

 

One may say that, that there is no such thing as free will, and that

everything happens as per His wish. Yes, this statement is true, but

is pertinent to Advaita. For example, if someone throws a slander on

us, would we say that , that person also has no free will, and thus

the slander thrown was also HIS wish, and not the person's fault, and

remain calm? Or would we get angry? How we control our anger is quite

another thing to talk about. But what i'm talking about here is the

reaction. Whatever it is that we feel, it is certainly not calmness

or quietitude.

 

This is b'cos we are still in the realm of duality or Dvaita. we have

the differences of 'i' and 'you'. We cannot differentiate between the

real and the unreal. While we are in duality, we need to make an

effort to control our desires / emotions until we reach that stage

where everything is known.

To give an illustration. A child cannot differentiate between real

and unreal and is hence not allowed to watch action / violence

movies. The child may think the movie to be real, and my try to

incorporate it in this life. But when the child grows up, it can

differentiate the real from the unreal. The adolsescent now, knows

that this is all only a movie, and hence can now watch those action

movies. But until then, rules will have to be followed, and here it

is, NOT watching the movie.

 

Similarly, we are at our spiritual infancy now. We feel everything

around us, including ourselves is real. We cannot differentiate the

real from the unreal. So we must not apply rules partially, that

everything happens as per HIS will. For if it were really accepted so

by us, we wouldn't feel any emotions towards anybody be it anger,

hatred, jealousy etc, for everything happens as per His will. But in

reality we apply it only whenever we want to do so. So every effort

must be made to reach the higher state where we can differentiate the

real from the unreal.

 

It is true that what we experience now is our prarabdha karma , or

the result of our past actions that we experience now. However , by

changing the way we react to it, we can change our future karma. This

is where control of desires / emotions comes in.

 

Though difficult, it's not impossible to control desires. Ramakrishna

Paramahamsa gave a simple solution for this. He said that we all need

to control our desires. However it is very difficult, however it is

not so to redirect them into another direction. Whatever emotion that

you have redirect it to God.

If you desire, desire Him. If you experience sorrow, redirect it to

him. Be sorrowful b'cos you haven't seen him yet. If you are angry,

be angry at the anger itself for arising in you. This way, all the

emotions and desires get cleansed. It is probably prarabdha that is

responsible for the desires to arise in you, but it is now your

freewill to decide what you want to do with it.

 

If we make a genuine effort, we sure can control and win it. However

it's not easy especially when one faces emotions like anger/ misery/

sorrow. But with dogged tenacity we can achieve it.

 

Hari Aum !!!