Desires/ Happiness

[Guest guest]

Hi svcs!

 

You have raised a fundamental question, one that touches all sincere

sadhaks and different schools of thought would address it in

apparently different ways.

 

Some keys words for me to first look at would be "desire"

and "happiness". What is "desire"? To me they are inner wants,

cravings, in various degrees of intensities for what one thinks one

needs, both material or otherwise. Desires may be for material

things like money, car, house, etc., emotional needs like security,

love, belongingness, achievement, needs of identity - egotistical

needs of fame, applause, and finally spiritual needs ranging from

simply peace to total moksha. Of course many of these may fall into

multiple sub-categories categories and in fact fall under the big

umbrella category of Ego needs in general.

 

But at the simplest level there is the ego's desire to survive;

without this we cannot live. The desire to live triggers other

desires .. food, shelter, safety, and on to higher and then higher

level needs. So desire is like a force that propels us to continue

living, often taking us down the roads we need to travel to be able

to burn our Karma, noting that most of us are here on Karmasthana

only to burn Karma.

 

Happiness on the other hand is the feeling of contentment that

arises from the satisfaction of our desires. If desires are not

fulfilled the happiness turns to its opposite, sadness or worse.

 

In my mind, all desires are like the call of the flute to travel

down ones journey. The flute is like the invisible Guru; HE/SHE

calls us, and we follow, attempting to fulfill them, thinking that

the next desire will bring us total and ultimate joy. When we get

there we find that we are still wanting, something more. Some remain

stuck at the lower levels of meeting desires, and spiral through

material possessions hoping the next fulfilment will give them the

happiness they seem to want. Others get stuck in other ego- centric

wants like fame, sycophancy and so on and so forth till one finds

oneself getting stuck in higher levels of needs like those of

spirituality. Even if one can gets stuck there, the process is stil

the same. One spirals within certain categories of needs, till one

gets to the next level of needs, till one recognizes that the flute

is calling for us to meet the ultimate need of all - union with the

ultimate source - the SELF. The ego mistakes via the mistake of the

intellect, the call of the flute to be the immediate needs/desire,

and only when it has learnt enough lessons will it be ready to

recognize the greater call.

 

So we have the choice how we want to handle the cycle of desires and

their fulfillment or lack thereof. We can get ourselves attached to

the desire, or we can let them be be milestones/classrooms (both

postive or negative), and remain grounded and content with the

greater journey that we are here to complete.

 

The choice is ours.

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

, s_v_c_s <no_reply> wrote:

> Assuming a hypthetical situation, where all our desires are

satisfied and if there were no problems in life, would we really be

happy?

[Guest guest]

Namaste!

 

Firstly, I would like to reply to Nivi and then to agree with you

Uma.

 

The mind keeps on running in the physical world to satisfy an unknown

desire but it never gets satisfied no matter what. Thats why people

are looking for happiness desperately but fail to find it in

relationships, beautiful cars and houses, fame and name etc. It seems

that we are looking in the wrong place. Its because of the fact that

all desires are reflections of the souls nostalgy as Plato put it, or

of the atmas longing to return to its source. All other desires that

we develope in this physical world are a result of our ignorance of

the spiritual worlds and are just reflections of the One desire.

 

As a result, fulfilling all our desires will not give us true

happiness. Actually, according to buddhism, desire is the source of

pain. So it is important to control the desires and to finally

overcome them through spiritual realization. We cannot eliminate our

desires as long as

our mind is agitated and cannot concentrate. If the mind cannot go

inwards through sadhana, then it will start to scatter its attention

outwards (by attaching itself to the five senses) and finally it will

identify itsself with the illusionary physical satisfactions.

 

Desires can emanate from physical needs, as Uma said, and insticts of

our samskaras as animals. Animals, though, have limited ability of

reasoning and function according to their natural needs or instincts.

We, humans, on the other hand very easily can misuse those insticts

as a source of sensual gratification and become enslaved to them.

 

 

Yogananda composed a beautiful prayer:

"Dear Lord, help me to find Thee first and last, and in all things.

Finding Thee, I shall find, in Thee, all the things that I craved."

 

Socrates, the teacher of Plato said:

"Having the fewest wants, am nearest to the Gods."

 

Its rather impossible for us not to have any desires at all so untill

we reach that stage I would agree with ALfred Lord Tennyson:

 

"The happiness of a man in this life does not consist in the absence

but in the mastery of his passions."...

 

HAri Om!

[Guest guest]

Dear Uma and de_spell_2000.

 

Thank you for your wonderful explanation on desires and happiness.

However both your messages are relating to the real world and do not

answer my question of a *hypothetical situation* wherein all our

desires are fulfilled.

 

What would happen if all our desires are fulfilled? Would we be happy

then?

Let us consider an example.

As teenagers we have a desire to graduate with a gold medal and it

gets fulfilled. Then we want a good job in the best company in the

world for that job, and that too gets fulfilled. Then wew want to get

married to a very good, homely, loving, adjusting, understanding,

caring person, and it too gets fulfilled. Then we want a big house

and a good car, and it gets fulfilled. Then we want good children,

with good character, ethics, culture etc, and that too gets

fulfilled. Then we want the children to get into good colleges, and

that too gets fulfilled. You want to start your own company and want

your company to be the best in the world in your field, and it gets

fulfilled. You want to thave the best staff in the world, who

cooperate very well with each other, so there are no skirmishes in

the office, and it gets fulfilled.... etc etc etc

 

Just stretch your imagination to what you want, and let all that be

fulfilled.

 

THEN..... when all that you wish for gets fulfilled.. would you still

be happy? Would it still be looking for happiness in the wrong

place... NO. b'cos what you wants gets fulfilled.

 

What would you exactly feel then? Would you think that life is going

too smooth, and that there are no problems, so would you wish for a

problem to solve?

 

Do you think life would really be very nice if all our wishes came

true, or is life better this way with all its multitude of problems (

even if it means suffering those problems)?

[Guest guest]

Just to add to the previous post.

 

This is a purely hypothetical situation, and is meant to think of

happiness from a different perspective. 'cos we have read many

theories of looking for happiness in the wrong place , and that real

joy is in the Self alone. That is b'cos our desires do not get

fulfilled. That is real life. But what if our desires are fulfilled?

This discussion is meant onl to think from a different perspective so

that we can understand happiness better.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Dear Niviji:)

 

Its always difficult to reply hypothetical questions.... but I will

share one thing with you... I met once a person who was telling me

that he had everything in life. He had money, an important job, he

was highly intelligent, an artist too. It seemed to me that he was a

multi talent with a spiritual personality. He had fame and name and

was known for his qualities. I cannot say his name but he was telling

me that despite of all these , he was unhappy in life. He told me:

"Nature always gave me what I asked for and I could gain so many

things in life." Still he found that all these had become a burden.

He used these as a way to promote his ego. He often told me that he

will burn all of his books, leave his job and family, and become a

wandering sannyasi.

 

Happiness is a tricky feeling. We have to learn to induce it through

practicing contentment. The mind is greedy.. we will always want more

than what we have. And if we reach a stage where we have everything

we want, we become miserable. Why? Because nothing material nor

worldly can induce in us the FEELING of happiness. Feelings are

created in the mind and by the mind, THROUGH the way we interprete

and see the world.

Happiness is a matter of perspective... and happiness is an attitude.

It is a way of living and thinking, and it is not something which

can be gained. Happiness is already withing us, we just have to

realize it.

 

A wise Guru once said:

"Happy is he, whos wants are few... The fewer the wants, the happier

the person. He who has no wants at all, is the king of kings..."

 

 

__/\__

 

 

 

, s_v_c_s <no_reply> wrote:

> Just to add to the previous post.

>

> This is a purely hypothetical situation, and is meant to think of

> happiness from a different perspective. 'cos we have read many

> theories of looking for happiness in the wrong place , and that

real

> joy is in the Self alone. That is b'cos our desires do not get

> fulfilled. That is real life. But what if our desires are

fulfilled?

> This discussion is meant onl to think from a different perspective

so

> that we can understand happiness better.

>

> Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Hi Svcs,

 

In your hypothetical example, if I am reading you correctly, are you

saying if ALL one's material needs are fulfilled, then one wouldn't

look for it in "wrong place" and one may choose suffering simply

because life may be more interesting with the problems than without?

 

It will depend on the consciousness of the person. All are seeking

happiness, in any way they feel they will be happy. It is that

hunger for happiness that drives their actions.

 

Just like one who is seeking fame, family or fortune, is doing so

because he/she believes that will one happy, so is the one who is

seeking revenge who believes that seeking this kind of "justice"

will make him/her happy and content. Some may even feel suffering

and self-sacrifice and pain will bring them happiness while some may

feel various spiritual practices will bring them contentment and

happiness.

 

Each represents a different level of consciousness and feel

perfectly justified and will pursue that path. No one is ultimately

wrong or right, they are simply at a stage in their journey.

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

, s_v_c_s <no_reply> wrote:

> THEN..... when all that you wish for gets fulfilled.. would you

>still be happy? Would it still be looking for happiness in the

>wrong place... NO. b'cos what you wants gets fulfilled.

 

> What would you exactly feel then? Would you think that life is

going too smooth, and that there are no problems, so would you wish

for a problem to solve?

>

> Do you think life would really be very nice if all our wishes came

> true, or is life better this way with all its multitude of

problems ( even if it means suffering those problems)?

[Guest guest]

dear all,

 

i am enjoying all thises lively discussions on 'desire/happiness' and

concept of 'sin' etc....

 

de_spell, please allow me to share with you this lovely verse from

the best of Upanishads- chandogya !

 

The Infinite is the source of joy. There is no joy in the finite.

Only in the Infinite is there joy. Ask to know the Infinite.

 

it is the same upanishad which elaborated on the Tattwa ....

 

Tat Twam Asi

 

ON ANOTHER NOTE - ON tambhaku OR TOBACCO...

 

shri ramakrishna paramahamsa and swami vivekanananda both 'smoked'

but they were both 'tantriks' who transcended 'duality' ...

in fact, if you read the gospel , you will find that one of the

disciples of shri Ramakrishna was a confirmed 'drunkard' but shri

ramakrishna accepted this disciple as one of his own and this

disciple was transformed into a loving human being by shri

ramakrishna's sat sangati!

 

In tantra, a tantrik or tantrika is ritually engaged in the Panca

Makaras practices ("the five M's") a form of Upasana ('ritual

worship') that are: Madya (wine), Mamsa (meat), Matsya (fish), Mudra

(parched cereals) and Maithuna (sexual union). From the yogic point

of view the Panca Makaras are symbols of different stages in the

Pranayama practice i.e. Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and

Samadhi. The result behind their ordinary meanings is the

transcendence of human addictions by using the very objects of

addictions.

 

de _spell, you are absolutely right! as kabirji, points out the 'musk

is in the navel of the deer ' but the deer wanders all around the

forest looking for the source of this beautiful fragrance...

 

the source of divinity is wthin and we are looking for it

everywhere !

[Guest guest]

Hello Dear Ones,

May I quote a definition of Happiness:-

"Fulilment of an Action is Happiness" ---- Dr. Hart

this diffenition is accepted by all psycologists now.

Foe the definition os "Desire", Kindly refer to Kathy's post in 4

parts regarding the Psychic Being.

Love.

Satish

[Guest guest]

Namaskar to all... _/\_

 

Wow! Such lively discussions we are having of late. I, for one, am

very happy to see it.

 

To add my two cents, I would like to paraphrase a short story.

 

A woman lived in a village. She had no lights in her home, but had

one pair of earrings that she treasured dearly. One night, she lost

one of the earrings. She went outside, where the street lamps were

illuminating the ground, and looked for the lost jewel. Her neighbor

came up and asked what she was doing. "Looking for my lost earring!"

she replied.

 

"Did you lose it out here? Where was the last place you saw it?"

asked the neighbor.

 

"I lost it inside, but there's no light inside, so I am looking out

here for the earring."

 

She was looking where there was light, even though she knew she lost

the earring inside.

 

And, I am reminded of the story of the rich man who sold everything

he owned in exchange for bags of jewels. He had the jewels and went

to his guruji and asked for enlightenment. His guruji took the bags

of jewels and ran away! The man ran after him, screaming that the

jewels were his. His guru stopped and told him to remember that he

already had everything he needed.

 

I guess my point is that we already have everything we need inside of

us.

 

What is happiness? Is it the lack of desires?

 

Even when we desire something, perhaps it is not the best thing for

us. Children want sweets, but we know that it is not healthy for them

to have sweets too much. So, are our desires springing from our

ignorance? I think so.

 

With love,

Erica

[Guest guest]

Sugarandbrine asks a very pertinent question...

 

 

What is happiness? Is it the lack of desires?

 

I am sure you have all heard of the word 'Faqir"

 

Faqir is one who is without any worldly poseesions... You see such

wandering 'sadhus' and monks in many holy places in india... all they

wear is a 'langoti (a loin cloth) and carry an alms bowl , begging

for food....

 

IN the world of sufis, one is never 'poor' if one is dependent on

GOD -

 

in sufism, renunciation is purely 'spiritual' or and not 'physical.' \

 

in hinduism, 'renunciation' or 'tyagha' means giving up all worldly

possessions including wife, kids, house etc ... in fact, a sanyasi

when he takes up the 'sanyasa' order completely severs a;; his

connections with his past - his family , even his name! such a

sanyasi is quite content with one 'loin' cloth and an alms bowl! he

just eats to keep his body and soul together!

 

but, a sufi does not renounce the world in this sense ! he does not

sit in seclusion !

 

A sufi lives in the world but he is not of the world!

 

He does arrend to all his worldly affairs, takes care of his wife and

family . He goes to work and earn a livelihood and firmly believes

that it is because of the God almighty he is able to put 'bread' on

the family table ....

 

So, such a sufi is 'rich' - he is wealthy for he thrives

on 'spiritual' wealth ...

 

Poetess Rabia OF basra expresses this 'abundance' thus...

 

My Joy, my Desire and my Refuge.

 

My Friend, my Sustainer and my Goal,

 

Thou art my Intimate:

 

longing for Thee sustains me.

 

Without Thee, O my life and my Friend,

 

I would have been distraught over the whole expanse of earth.

 

Thou hast bestowed favours on me and hast given me much

 

Of gifts, grace and guidance.

 

Now Thy love is my desire and my bliss,

 

Revealed to the eye of my thirsting heart.

 

I have none beside Thee, who dost bring the desert to bloom.

 

Thou art my joy, firmly established within me.

 

If Thou art satisfied with me, O Desire of my heart,

 

Then my happiness has appeared

 

 

**********************************************************************

srimad bhagwat gita also says much the same thing ... Krishna

says 'do not be attached to the fruits of your actions'

[Guest guest]

mauna_atma,

You say:

 

> srimad bhagwat gita also says much the same thing ... Krishna

> says 'do not be attached to the fruits of your actions'

 

Can we not be attached to the actions themselves? Do we not desire

the action itself? Perhaps even because we think that it will bring

happiness?

 

With love,

Erica

[Guest guest]

Thank you everyone for taking your time and answering my question.

de_spell_2000, you continue to amaze me with your wisdom in this

tender age. Just to add my 2 cents :

 

What is happiness?

When there is contact with a desirable object or memory thereof, and

when there is freedom from undesirable contacts, or memory thereof,

we say there is happiness. Such happiness is relative and is better

called pleasure. But we want absolute and permanent happiness. This

does not reside in objects but in the Absolute. It is peace free

from pain and pleasure - it is a neutral state.

 

- Sri Ramana Maharshi

 

There was once a man who went up to a Rishi and asked him, 'How far

is God from us?'

The Rishi replied, " Take a piece of paper and write down what all

desires you have."

 

The man did so, and took that huge list to the Rishi. The Rishi took

that list in his hand and said to the man, 'The distance between God

and you is as long as this list. As you keep cutting down your

desires, you come closer and closer to God."

 

Desires is what keeps the ball rolling. Why do we desire? B'cos we

believe that acquisition of the object of desire would lead us to

happiness. Why do we want happiness ? B'cos that is our true state.

Again the happiness that I speak of here is that true Blissful state

that we do not find in this world.

 

Due to our karmic baggage, we are given this body to work out our

karma. However any kind of possession is only a burden and not a

pleasure. More possessions is more burden. If it were not true, would

we all desire deep sleep - a state in which we have no possessions or

thoughts ?

If possessions really gave us pleasure, then more of the possessions

would mean more happiness, but do we find that in real life?

 

For eg. Most of us like ice cream. But there is a limit to which we

can eat. If I get a drum of full of 10 kg of ice cream and insist you

finish all of this in one stretch, would it give you greater

pleasure?.... NO It would in fact get you frustrated. The happiness

that we find in an object is short lived.

 

If it is short lived, why do we keep chasing pleasures?

This is b'cos momentarily on gratification of the desire, we are

happy and desire nothing else and think of nothing else at that

instant of time. i.e For that instant of time, we get into that state

of the Self. But this lasts only momentarily, and again we are back

into this world of duality, and again we are not happy.

 

This body as Maharshi says is only an outgrowth of our karma. When we

are in this body, we are tainted with this 'body' thought and are no

longer in our pristine divine state. This loss of divine state

results in unhappiness. To regain this true state, we linger here and

there. But in doing so, we meet many objects, and get enchanged by

the objects, and forget the real purpose of being here. We develop

desires, thinking that acquisition of that object might return us to

our original state. Knowingly or unknowingly, all of us are trying to

get back to our original state. The diffrence is,.... many do not

know what they are doing, and a few know what is happening.

 

On acquisition of the object of their desire, they are momentarily

taken into that original state, as they have no other thoughts or

desires filling up their minds at that time. This confers happiness.

However since this happiness is not something that is earned, and is

still tainted by duality, it doesn't last long. It is soon replaced

in the mind by other thoughts and desires. And so the search goes on

and on.

 

The only way to get true happiness is by attaining the pristine

divine state, and this state obviously doesn't reside in the objects

we see in this world. Just like the story that Erica pointed out,

we'll be groping in a different place to search for something we lost

in another realm of our Consciousness. We are searching for ourselves

in this realm of jagrat, when we are beyond it in the state of Turiya

or Turiya Tita.

 

Just like the lady who searches for her earring, on finding a huge

pebble, might be momentarily happy as she fantasises holding her lost

earring in her hand. But then she'll realise it's only a stone and

not the earring she was looking for. Similarly, we take the objects

of the world and bask in them, momentarily, until we realise that

this is not the object we are looking for. That is the reason, the

worldly objects can never give us true happiness.

 

The lady will be happy only on finding her real earring, and so too,

we will be eternally happy only on finding out our true self. All

else only is a reminder to us of our true state and is therefore

momentary.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all Vaisnavas!

Please accept my humble obeisances and blessings.

 

I do not write much, but take great interest in many of the

discussions that take place in this wonderful group. Somehow, I

feel compelled to inject my opinion of this matter of action as some

have stated that comes from the Srimad Bhagavad Gita.

 

Erica devi wrote: "Can we not be attached to the actions themselves?

Do we not desire

the action itself? Perhaps even because we think that it will bring

happiness? "

 

The Bhagavad Gita Fourth Chapter describes Transcendental Knowledge

and the actions and reactions of Karma in all its forms. As all

reaction causes a comparable reaction, so any action that we commit,

either good or bad causes a reaction. One that is blessed in all

his ways, is a result of lifetimes of pious deeds, just as one that

never has anything go right is reaping the harvest of lifetimes of

bad deeds.

 

Srimad Bhagavad Gita advises us not to be attached to fruitive

activities because they cause us to be bound to this material

world. As all action causes a reaction, it is important to

understand that the attitude in which a deed is done is most

important. When everything is done in the attitude of service to

Sri Krishna, then the karmic reaction is negated. Sri Krishna

states to Arjuna in Chapter 4 verse 20 "Abandoning all attachment to

the results of his activities, ever satisfied and independent, he

performs no fruitive action, although engaged in all kinds of

undertakings." This freedom from bondage of actions is possible

only in Krishna, when one is doing everything for Krishna. When an

individual acts out of pure love for Sri Krishna, and therefore has

no attraction for the results of the action. He is not attached to

his personal maintenance, for everything rests in the hands of Sri

Krishna. He is not anxious to possess things, nor protect what he

has already. He does his duty to the best of his ability and leaves

everything to Sri Krishna. Srila Prabhupada states that "such an

unattached person is always free for the resultant reactions of good

and bad; it is as though he were not doing anything. This is the

sign of akarma, or actions without fruitive reactions.

 

In verse 22, it is stated "He who is satisfied with gain which comes

of its own accord, who is free from duality and does not envy, who

is steady in both success and failure, is never entangled, although

he is performing actions." In this, one labors honestly and is

satisfied with whatever is obtained by his honest labor. This makes

one independent of his livelihood, but also, he does not allow any

situation to hamper his pure service to Sri Krishna. Also, one who

is in pure service to Sri Krishna is above duality because he does

not hesitate to act in any way for the satisfaction of Krishna.

Therefore, he is steady both in success and in failure, hot and

cold, or misery and happiness.

 

As Erica asked/stated: "Perhaps even because we think that it will

bring happiness." In some ways this is true, but not entirely. In

verse 23, Sri Krishna goes on and states that: "The work of a man

who is unattached to the modes of material nature and who is fully

situated in transcendental knowledge merges entirely into

transcendence." When one is free from all dualities and thus is

free from the contaminations of the material modes. He can become

liberated because he knows his constitutional position in

relationship with Sri Krishna, and thus his mind cannot be drawn

from Krishna. So, whatever he does, he does for Krishna. All his

works are technically sacrifices because sacrifice aims at

satisfying the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The resultant

reactions to all such work certainly merge into transcendence,

therefore one does not suffer material effects.

 

When one is in the transcendence spiritual arena, then the concept

of happiness, sadness, or any other concept of duality does not

exist. Happiness, sadness, joyfulness, depression, whatever are all

emotions of the mind, and emotional reactions to external material

stimulus. When one is in transcendence, then he/she is beyond the

grasp of such base emotions. They are in a state of constants,

because they are not attracted to the dualities and its reactions.

 

Please forgive me for such a poor example of explanation of this

matter. Mine is not the gift of writing. I pray that other more

learned Sadhus may build on this shaky foundation that I have laid

at their lotus feet.

 

Your eternal servant;

Nitaipada Maharaj

 

 

 

, "Erica" <sugarandbrine> wrote:

>

[Guest guest]

it is a good subject. Will someone tell me what is the source of

desires. Desires as we know them, are they handicraft of our Ego? or

they are desires of the Mother Nature, while we egoistically call

them our desires ??

 

What should be done with desires ??

pradeep

 

 

, s_v_c_s <no_reply> wrote:

> Thank you everyone for taking your time and answering my question.

> de_spell_2000, you continue to amaze me with your wisdom in this

> tender age. Just to add my 2 cents :

>

> What is happiness?

> When there is contact with a desirable object or memory thereof,

and

> when there is freedom from undesirable contacts, or memory thereof,

> we say there is happiness. Such happiness is relative and is

better

> called pleasure. But we want absolute and permanent happiness.

This

> does not reside in objects but in the Absolute. It is peace free

> from pain and pleasure - it is a neutral state.

>

> - Sri Ramana Maharshi

>

> There was once a man who went up to a Rishi and asked him, 'How far

> is God from us?'

> The Rishi replied, " Take a piece of paper and write down what all

> desires you have."

>

> The man did so, and took that huge list to the Rishi. The Rishi

took

> that list in his hand and said to the man, 'The distance between

God

> and you is as long as this list. As you keep cutting down your

> desires, you come closer and closer to God."

>

> Desires is what keeps the ball rolling. Why do we desire? B'cos we

> believe that acquisition of the object of desire would lead us to

> happiness. Why do we want happiness ? B'cos that is our true state.

> Again the happiness that I speak of here is that true Blissful

state

> that we do not find in this world.

>

> Due to our karmic baggage, we are given this body to work out our

> karma. However any kind of possession is only a burden and not a

> pleasure. More possessions is more burden. If it were not true,

would

> we all desire deep sleep - a state in which we have no possessions

or

> thoughts ?

> If possessions really gave us pleasure, then more of the

possessions

> would mean more happiness, but do we find that in real life?

>

> For eg. Most of us like ice cream. But there is a limit to which we

> can eat. If I get a drum of full of 10 kg of ice cream and insist

you

> finish all of this in one stretch, would it give you greater

> pleasure?.... NO It would in fact get you frustrated. The happiness

> that we find in an object is short lived.

>

> If it is short lived, why do we keep chasing pleasures?

> This is b'cos momentarily on gratification of the desire, we are

> happy and desire nothing else and think of nothing else at that

> instant of time. i.e For that instant of time, we get into that

state

> of the Self. But this lasts only momentarily, and again we are

back

> into this world of duality, and again we are not happy.

>

> This body as Maharshi says is only an outgrowth of our karma. When

we

> are in this body, we are tainted with this 'body' thought and are

no

> longer in our pristine divine state. This loss of divine state

> results in unhappiness. To regain this true state, we linger here

and

> there. But in doing so, we meet many objects, and get enchanged by

> the objects, and forget the real purpose of being here. We develop

> desires, thinking that acquisition of that object might return us

to

> our original state. Knowingly or unknowingly, all of us are trying

to

> get back to our original state. The diffrence is,.... many do not

> know what they are doing, and a few know what is happening.

>

> On acquisition of the object of their desire, they are momentarily

> taken into that original state, as they have no other thoughts or

> desires filling up their minds at that time. This confers

happiness.

> However since this happiness is not something that is earned, and

is

> still tainted by duality, it doesn't last long. It is soon replaced

> in the mind by other thoughts and desires. And so the search goes

on

> and on.

>

> The only way to get true happiness is by attaining the pristine

> divine state, and this state obviously doesn't reside in the

objects

> we see in this world. Just like the story that Erica pointed out,

> we'll be groping in a different place to search for something we

lost

> in another realm of our Consciousness. We are searching for

ourselves

> in this realm of jagrat, when we are beyond it in the state of

Turiya

> or Turiya Tita.

>

> Just like the lady who searches for her earring, on finding a huge

> pebble, might be momentarily happy as she fantasises holding her

lost

> earring in her hand. But then she'll realise it's only a stone and

> not the earring she was looking for. Similarly, we take the objects

> of the world and bask in them, momentarily, until we realise that

> this is not the object we are looking for. That is the reason, the

> worldly objects can never give us true happiness.

>

> The lady will be happy only on finding her real earring, and so

too,

> we will be eternally happy only on finding out our true self. All

> else only is a reminder to us of our true state and is therefore

> momentary.

>

> Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Dear Pradeepji,

 

You have answered your own question very correctly. The source of desire is our

ego, the false ego that I am the body. This is ignorance of our real nature,

which is Sat-Chit-Ananda. Once we accept ourselves to be the body, we are always

incomplete and always lacking. To complete this feeling of 'lackness', we spend

all our lives in accumulating things and beings around us but alas this desire

of filling-in the vacuum of incompleteness deludes us like a mirage.

 

What should be done with the desires? Well there is nothing wrong in desiring,

it seems to be natural way of survival for most of us. What we need to do is to

convert our desires from ego centric to the 'will of the Lord'. Nothing has

changed here except we have brought God in our lives as a partner thus reducing

our burden of egoistic doership and the consequent Karmic reactions. Once we

accept God as our partner, our whole inner system starts purifying, leading us

God-wards. This is called transforming our lives from "Karma Chakra" - wheel of

bondage - to "Moksha Chakra - wheel of freedom. This is not difficult, we start

with a feeling of surrender (Ishvara Arpana Buddhi) and except everything in

life as the gift of God (Prasad Budhi).

 

Hari OM

radhakutir

 

 

-

"pradeep8_56" <no_reply>

<>

03 September, 2003 3:46 PM

Re: Desires/ Happiness

 

 

> it is a good subject. Will someone tell me what is the source of

> desires. Desires as we know them, are they handicraft of our Ego? or

> they are desires of the Mother Nature, while we egoistically call

> them our desires ??

>

> What should be done with desires ??

> pradeep

>

[Guest guest]

Hi List,

 

Before attempting to answer the question, let us see what

desire is. Desire, I feel, is something more than need. What is

essential

to survive would just be a need. Anything more than that is desire

and that, essentially, is human.

 

The source of desire is inherent to human nature. It is very strongly

linked to the need to excel and do better. If it were not so, then

man would not evolve. Desires are not necessarily the handicraft

of our Egos though in some cases it may be so. For example, the

desire to attain Moksha or to attain enlightenment may not necessarily

be fuelled by the Ego.

 

As regards happiness, it is just a state of mind. I feel that

one can be happy even if desires are not fulfilled. And as most

things, the definitions vary from individual to individual. Ideally

it would be best to delink desires from happiness. Only the light

of knowledge can illuminate the darkness of human emotions. Happiness

is too relative term. Satchitanand would be more appropriate and

a goal to strive for.

 

What should one do with one's desires? Use your knowledge, wisdom

and experience and deal with it appropriately. Let also your

conscience

determine what you want to do with your desires. If they are worth

it then pursue it wholeheartedly - as nature intended or discard

those desires which are worthless to pursue. If you cannot decide,

ask your spiritual Guru.

 

Regards,

 

Astrorag

 

PS: this link may be interesting

http://bernie.cncfamily.com/k_happy1.htm

 

, pradeep8_56 <no_reply> wrote:

> it is a good subject. Will someone tell me what is the source of

> desires.

[Guest guest]

I thank all the members for your lovely answers. Astrorag, I really

like your style of writing / approach. Here are my 2 cents :

 

What is the ego ( the spiritual ego ). It is nothing but the aham

vritti or the 'I' thought. What is mind? Mind is nothing but a

collection of thoughts. If you trace back to the source of mind and

ego, you find that at the root level, both are the same, for the mind

begins with the 'I' thought from which all other thoughts arise, and

the ego is nothing but the 'I' thought. Both are thus not real.

 

Now what is desire ? Desire is nothing but a thought. When we do not

feel our infinite Self, but are bound to this body and feel finite

instead of infinite, we do not feel happy, and we are constantly

searching for happiness (i.e to reach our infinite state). Not

knowing what will lead us to our true state, we search indefinitely

for objects that will lead us to that state. Certain objects appear

pleasing to us, and we believe that it may take us to our original

state, and this is what is called desire --> or the thought of

wanting something, that may take you to your state.

 

Where from does it arise ?

Let's take an example of a theatre. The motion pictures are projected

onto a screen. For a villager who is visitng the theater for the

first time, and doesn't know much about it, when he sees fire ont he

screen he gets alarmed. He thinks there really is fire, and tries to

run away from the theater. However, a person with knowledge knows

that this is not real fire, but is only projected onto a screen.

This 'knowledge' enables him to be calm.

 

To the ignorant, the screen appears to be wet with water, or is on

fire, or have many emotions like joy, sorrow, anger, etc.

 

Our life is similar to this. The screen is our true Self, which is

ever constant and unchanging. The mind and ego in reality do not

exist and need a subtratum to exist. In order to keep the ball of

life rolling, it keeps generating desires, akin to the projection on

the screen. The continued projection is what results in the movie

called life.

 

Thus desires arise from the ego / mind which exists only virtually,

in order to sustain itself.

 

The Jnani is like the learned man in the theater who is forever calm

and remains only as a witness to whatever happens in the screen.

Knowing the substratum (screen) of all to be the Self, which is

forever unchanged no matter what is projected on to it, results in

Nirvana.

 

Hari aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Thank you for a wonderful summary so nicely.

 

>

> The Jnani is like the learned man in the theater who is forever

calm

> and remains only as a witness to whatever happens in the screen.

> Knowing the substratum (screen) of all to be the Self, which is

> forever unchanged no matter what is projected on to it, results in

> Nirvana.

>

 

Most probably that may be the reason why knowledgeable people are

often compared with lotus leaves. They are surrounded by water but

water does not attach to them.

 

Dr. Yadu

 

 

, s_v_c_s <no_reply> wrote:

> I thank all the members for your lovely answers.

[Guest guest]

, s_v_c_s <no_reply> wrote:

> I thank all the members for your lovely answers. Astrorag, I really

> like your style of writing / approach. Here are my 2 cents :

>

> What is the ego ( the spiritual ego ). It is nothing but the aham

> vritti or the 'I' thought. What is mind? Mind is nothing but a

> collection of thoughts. If you trace back to the source of mind

and

> ego, you find that at the root level, both are the same, for the

mind

> begins with the 'I' thought from which all other thoughts arise,

and

> the ego is nothing but the 'I' thought. Both are thus not real.

>

> Now what is desire ? Desire is nothing but a thought. When we do

not

> feel our infinite Self, but are bound to this body and feel finite

> instead of infinite, we do not feel happy, and we are constantly

> searching for happiness (i.e to reach our infinite state). Not

> knowing what will lead us to our true state, we search indefinitely

> for objects that will lead us to that state. Certain objects appear

> pleasing to us, and we believe that it may take us to our original

> state, and this is what is called desire --> or the thought of

> wanting something, that may take you to your state.

>

> Where from does it arise ?

> Let's take an example of a theatre. The motion pictures are

projected

> onto a screen. For a villager who is visitng the theater for the

> first time, and doesn't know much about it, when he sees fire ont

he

> screen he gets alarmed. He thinks there really is fire, and tries

to

> run away from the theater. However, a person with knowledge knows

> that this is not real fire, but is only projected onto a screen.

> This 'knowledge' enables him to be calm.

>

> To the ignorant, the screen appears to be wet with water, or is on

> fire, or have many emotions like joy, sorrow, anger, etc.

>

> Our life is similar to this. The screen is our true Self, which is

> ever constant and unchanging. The mind and ego in reality do not

> exist and need a subtratum to exist. In order to keep the ball of

> life rolling, it keeps generating desires, akin to the projection

on

> the screen. The continued projection is what results in the movie

> called life.

>

> Thus desires arise from the ego / mind which exists only virtually,

> in order to sustain itself.

>

> The Jnani is like the learned man in the theater who is forever

calm

> and remains only as a witness to whatever happens in the screen.

> Knowing the substratum (screen) of all to be the Self, which is

> forever unchanged no matter what is projected on to it, results in

> Nirvana.

>

> Hari aum !!!

 

 

Thanks all for giving me the valuable information/thoughts

on "desires".

"In order to find ones trueself, one Desires something thinking that

it will lead him to his destinations."

If this is the definition of "desires", then what is the harm in it.

Man does not know which desire will take him to the destination. He

keeps on creating desires and at the end finds himself in a web of

desires, created by himself. What is the end to it.

 

Secondly, Are we free to choose our desires. Is it not the destiny or

Prarabdh who chooses desires for us, without our knowing. Rather they

are forced upon us to be choosen ?

 

Pradeep

[Guest guest]

> >

>

> Most probably that may be the reason why knowledgeable people are

> often compared with lotus leaves. They are surrounded by water but

> water does not attach to them.

>

> Dr. Yadu

>

 

Yes Indeed

Like the Lotus leaves, they are in the world, yet apart from it.

Thank You _/\_

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

>>Secondly, Are we free to choose our desires. Is it not the destiny

or

Prarabdh who chooses desires for us, without our knowing. Rather they

are forced upon us to be choosen ? <<

 

Yes, we are indeed free to choose our desires. We have the option of

controlling them too. Let me give an illustration.

When we used to go to the mall for my shopping, my parents would go

in the front to buy the things they need to. My brother and I would

follow them. Sometimes, when there is a raffle draw, we'll see a BMW,

at a conspicuous point, wrapped in a ribbon, with many banners and

balloons around it. Both my brother and I will pass by it, but the

BMW would have absolutely NO effect on me. However my brother would

gape and stop for a moment to take a closer look at the car.

 

When we go to the Indian stores, in the neighbouring showroom,

beautiful sarees and chudidars would be hung. Both my bro and I would

pass by it, and it would have aboslutely NO effect on him. However, I

would gape, and stop momentarily to have a closer look at the sarees.

 

Now coming back to our question. Destiny is that my bro and I must

encounter the BMW and the sarees in our path. Our freewill is what

determines who develops what desire. The BMW elicits a desire in my

bro's heart, and has absolutely no effect on me, and the sarees/

chudidars elicit a desire in me, and have absolutely no effect on

him. Thus destiny has no part in choosing our desires. We face our

day to day matters according to our prarabdha, but how we react to it

is in our own hands, which lays foundation for our future karma . i.e

Agami or Kriyamana Karma.

 

>>If this is the definition of "desires", then what is the harm in

it. <<

 

There is no harm in a desire, provided no one is harmed by the

consequent action that arises out of a desire. For example: If we

look at a beautiful digital camera in the shop, and think to

ourselves, I need to save money and buy this camera, such a desire is

an innocuous one.

On the other hand, if you think, " This person in my office is a

hinderance to my promotion. Only by killing him, I'll be happy", such

a desire is obviously bad.

 

The thing with desires is, that we will not find happiness on

satisfaction of our desire, as only momentarily we will be taken to

our true state, and we will return to this dual state soon, which

again is a painful state. So we seek another desire, and then another

and so on.

 

>>Man does not know which desire will take him to the destination. He

keeps on creating desires and at the end finds himself in a web of

desires, created by himself. What is the end to it. <<

 

We get caught in the web of Maya as we indulge more and more into our

desires. The end to it is realization. It's like looking for

happiness in the wrong place. As Erica pointed out in her story, the

woman is searching for her earring in the wrong place. If the woman

picks up a pebble, she will be reminded of holding her earring and

momentarily be happy at the thought of the earring. Then immediately

she'll realise, that this is only a stone and not her earring, and

she'll continue the search. Simiarly, on gratification of our

desires, we'll be momentarily happy, as no other thought occupies our

mind at that instant of time. Then we realise that this is not what

we were actually looking for, and get miserable again.

 

The woman in the storywill be happy only on finding her earring, so

too we will be happy only on finding our true self. That is the end

of all the desires, for all that exists is only in the Self.

 

We need to look into the right place, i.e within our hearts.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

I don't feel we are free to choose our desires. They are

determined by the baggage we bring with us - the karmic baggage of

samskaras and vasanas.

 

In your example, the desire arises automatically; one does not

say .. "let me desire this". However once the desire has arisen we

do have the freedom to pursue it or not, as well as the freedom to

choose the motivation for perusal. An individual may buy the BMW

because they want a good car and have the money to buy it. Another

individual may buy it because it can be a source of pride and

opportunity to display his/her wealth. A murderer may be sent to

prison as a natural consequence of breaking an earth law, but

whether he/she is sent from a feeling of revenge or simply a natural

consequence is a personal choice.

 

The existence of unfulfilled desires is why we are reborn, how we

pursue it is our choice.

 

Again, bhaktas will nothing is a choice .. all is laid out according

to a plan. We just play along as we constantly keep the holy name in

our minds.

 

_/\_ Tat Twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

 

, s_v_c_s <no_reply> wrote:

>

> >>Secondly, Are we free to choose our desires. Is it not the

destiny or Prarabdh who chooses desires for us, without our knowing.

Rather they are forced upon us to be choosen ?

>

> Yes, we are indeed free to choose our desires. We have the option

of controlling them too.

[Guest guest]

Thanks a lot

 

I also feel that we are not free to choose our desires. But, if it

is so, the we even cannot desire to go for God. this is also

controlled by the other forces or destiny. Does it mean that we have

to wait for such a desire to arise depending on our karmas and if a

person does not have such a Karma in his store, he will never be able

to go for the path of Sadhna ? Does it mean that without their

mercy, we cannot even remember God. Are we so helpless? Is there a

way out ?

 

Pradeep

 

, "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote:

>

> I don't feel we are free to choose our desires. They are

> determined by the baggage we bring with us - the karmic baggage of

> samskaras and vasanas.

[Guest guest]

Pradeep wrote <Does it mean that without their mercy, we cannot even

remember God. Are we so helpless? Is there a way out ? >>>>

 

YES THERE IS NO WAY OUT. We have to surrender to the will of GOD

and let him decide the best for us. Those who do not accept his will

suffer from the paradoxs of life.

 

I also do not agree with SVCS when he said our destiny has no

effect onour desires.

 

Each of our desire is a signal from Universe towards our destiny

whether it is in this life or next. Rather our desires this life are

making a prototype of our next personality.

 

this much intelligence from a Sardar is sufficient !

 

 

, pradeep8_56 <no_reply> wrote:

> Thanks a lot

>

> I also feel that we are not free to choose our desires. But, if it

> is so, the we even cannot desire to go for God. this is also

> controlled by the other forces or destiny. Does it mean that we

have

> to wait for such a desire to arise depending on our karmas and if a

> person does not have such a Karma in his store, he will never be

able

> to go for the path of Sadhna ? ccDoes it mean that without their

> mercy, we cannot even remember God. Are we so helpless? Is there a

> way out ?

>

> Pradeep

>

> , "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote:

> >

> > I don't feel we are free to choose our desires. They are

> > determined by the baggage we bring with us - the karmic baggage

of

> > samskaras and vasanas.

[Guest guest]

Since you wish it so, God wishes it so;

God grants the desires of the devoted.

In the past it was as if he belonged to God,

but now "God belongs to him"* has come in recompense.

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

 

Chon chonin khâvhi Khodâ khvâhad chonin

mi dehad Haqq ârzu-ye mottaqin

"Kâna lillâh" budeh-'i dar mâ-mazâ

tâ keh "Kâna Allâh"* pish âmad jazâ

 

 

*From a hadith of the Prophet: Whoever is for God,

God is for him (man kâna lillâh, kâna Allah lahu)

 

"Rumi: Jewels of Remembrance"

 

 

 

, pradeep8_56 <no_reply> wrote:

> Thanks a lot

>

> I also feel that we are not free to choose our desires. But, if