Just want to share.

October 28, 2005

I received a mantra from Amma, Ammachi, as Len has called her.

I told Amma's attendants in Los Angeles which deity I had chosen,

and that I wanted a mantra to the deity that is half Shiva and half

Shakti. The assistant told me I had to choose one or the other,

Shiva or Shakti. Then that person told Amma something, and Amma gave

me a mantra that I knew was not the one I had asked for. I went back

and told a Swami that I thought the attendant gave Amma wrong

information because I knew the mantra she gave me was not the one I

asked for. The swami I spoke to told me to keep the mantra for a

year and then come back if I wanted to change it. I said that the

fact that someone told Amma wrong information was not a reason for

me to keep the wrong mantra for a year. So, they took me up to Amma,

explained what had happened, and she gave me my mantra.

Though I felt wonderful when Amma gave me the mantra, afterward, the

Swami that I was sent to to receive instructions spoke kind of

harshly. Imagine a swami instructing you with his arms across his

chest, sneering. He said one of the words by kind of spitting it out

as if there was something wrong with it: rupinyai. I remember that I

was still in a magical place from receiving the mantra, and I

offered to hug him, and he said no. I do not know what he found

offensive about the mantra.

Since then, I have wondered what the words in it do indicate. I

think there may be bias in certain tendencies in language. I think

maybe the swami was saying that the mantra did not equally honor the

feminine, but I don't really know, and haven't found out yet. If

anyone knows, feel free to offer the information. Maybe it depends

on the surrounding words, not just the one he "spit out," but I

haven't told my mantra to anyone because I was told not to.

Later, I read in a book that Amma actually recommends that people

say the mantra I chose before they receive a mantra from the guru.

And there was my mantra printed in that book.

October 28, 2005

Hi Ann

Sorry to hear the experience that you did undergo but end of it you were blessed

and you got what you asked for

Everyone surrounding a holy person need not have all the qualities as there holy

teacher

Thankfully in my first experience, when I got to meet my Tibetan Teacher, there

were good and humble translators

October 28, 2005

Len inserts comments below.

--- Mary Ann <buttercookie61 wrote:

> I received a mantra from Amma, Ammachi, as Len has

> called her.

>

> I told Amma's attendants in Los Angeles which deity

> I had chosen,

> and that I wanted a mantra to the deity that is half

> Shiva and half

> Shakti. The assistant told me I had to choose one or

> the other,

> Shiva or Shakti. Then that person told Amma

> something, and Amma gave

> me a mantra that I knew was not the one I had asked

> for. I went back

> and told a Swami that I thought the attendant gave

> Amma wrong

> information because I knew the mantra she gave me

> was not the one I

> asked for. The swami I spoke to told me to keep the

> mantra for a

> year and then come back if I wanted to change it. I

> said that the

> fact that someone told Amma wrong information was

> not a reason for

> me to keep the wrong mantra for a year. So, they

> took me up to Amma,

> explained what had happened, and she gave me my

> mantra.

>

> Though I felt wonderful when Amma gave me the

> mantra, afterward, the

> Swami that I was sent to to receive instructions

> spoke kind of

> harshly.

Mary Ann, it is VERY unusual for a devotee to argue

with the Guru, or the Guru's assistants. Amma is a

Mahatma, she has certain psychic abilities. Do you

think she would give you a mantra that was

inappropriate? You seem to imply that the Swami was

castigating you for being an "uppity woman," but I

think a man who behaved similarly would have gotten

similar harsh treatment.

This does seem to explain why, in earlier posts, you

claimed that the Swamis were not as reliable or

helpful to Amma's devotees as Amma herself was.

> Imagine a swami instructing you with his

> arms across his

> chest, sneering. He said one of the words by kind of

> spitting it out

> as if there was something wrong with it: rupinyai. I

> remember that I

> was still in a magical place from receiving the

> mantra, and I

> offered to hug him, and he said no.

We're dealing with different cultures here, Mary Ann!

A swami has taken a vow of brahmacharya. He is not

supposed to entertain sexual thoughts, or even to be

alone with a woman for extended periods. To

Westerners, a hug is a simple gesture of reassurance;

to a celibate priest, it's an offer by a "kamini"

("lustful woman") to press her attractive body against

his, and arouse all sorts of sexual thoughts!

> I do not know what he found

> offensive about the mantra.

I think he found your behavior offensive (i.e.,

protesting at the original mantra Amma gave you), not

the mantra per se. If you had asked for a mantra for

"Ardhanarishvara" -- one deity (even though containing

two), perhaps you wouldn't have gotten the hassle. Of

course, if you had asked for "ArdhanarESHvarI" (the

last vowels indicating that this is the androgyne with

Shakti to the RIGHT side), there might have been

similar quibbles...

>

> Since then, I have wondered what the words in it do

> indicate. I

> think there may be bias in certain tendencies in

> language. I think

> maybe the swami was saying that the mantra did not

> equally honor the

> feminine, but I don't really know, and haven't found

> out yet. If

> anyone knows, feel free to offer the information.

> Maybe it depends

> on the surrounding words, not just the one he "spit

> out,"

"Rupinyai" simply means "in the form of" with a

feminine ending.

> but I

> haven't told my mantra to anyone because I was told

> not to.

Your mantra is secret, it should not be bandied about.

If you have an acquaintance you trust who speaks

Sanskrit, you might share it with her/him for

translation.

One of my coveners went to get a mantra from Ammachi.

She had no strong feelings towards any of the Hindu

deities (and didn't want a Jesus mantra, either --

people get those!), so asked Amma to pick one for her.

The mantra given her was a long list of Beejas (seed

syllables) -- she wnted to know "what does it mean,"

and shared it with ME, her Wiccan High Priest. She

later left my coven after a big fight with me -- I

don't think having shared her secret mantra with me

helped any.

>

> Later, I read in a book that Amma actually

> recommends that people

> say the mantra I chose before they receive a mantra

> from the guru.

> And there was my mantra printed in that book.

>

No change? Amma usually "tweaks" the mantra for

individuals, adding a particular Beeja, or otherwise

personalizing it.

Another Guru has mantras listed in a book that I

bought, and imagine MY surprise when I saw the mantra

Amma gave me, there in another Guru's text! But

obviously, Amma felt this mantra was appropriate for

me.

There is a story about an ancient sage, whose Guru

taught him a secret mantra. The sage felt EVERYONE

should have the benefit of this mantra, and so taught

it to everyone whom he met. That's how the Shiva

Mahamantra (om namah shivaya) became universally known

and is not kept a secret.

-- Len

FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.

http://farechase.

October 28, 2005

Mary Ann wrote : Imagine a swami instructing you with his arms

across his chest, sneering. He said one of the words by kind of

spitting it out as if there was something wrong with it: rupinyai. I

remember that I was still in a magical place from receiving the

mantra, and I offered to hug him, and he said no.

Len Rosenberg <kalipadma108> wrote: We're dealing with

different cultures here, Mary Ann! A swami has taken a vow of

brahmacharya. He is not supposed to entertain sexual thoughts, or

even to be alone with a woman for extended periods. To Westerners,

a hug is a simple gesture of reassurance; to a celibate priest, it's

an offer by a "kamini"("lustful woman") to press her attractive body

against his, and arouse all sorts of sexual thoughts!

hahhhhaa this explains it all. I once chatting with this person who

claim to be a Jr Swami from some ashram. He is the one who been

contacting me, trying to extract information abt my sadhana. Anyway

as the conversation goes on okay actually until at the end, I just

jokingly send him a smiley flying kiss face. He got offended. Told

me :Hey! that is not a good face you just sent. I responded " huh!

what not good". "That smiley flying kissy face is not good".

Gosh! I never have any other sexual or naughty thoughts went I send

those faces. hahhaaaa

October 28, 2005

Hi Len,

The system in requesting a mantra from Amma, as I understand it, is

that the person asks for the mantra of their choosing. Isn't that

what you did? Why would you assume that I should take a mantra that

I knew not to be the one I chose, due to having been told by an

American assistant (not near Amma) that no mantra combined both

Shiva and Shakti, and I needed to pick one or the other? That's

ludicrous (imHo:)

Yes, there are definitely cultural differences, and I completely

appreciate your sharing your views on that. I have encountered some

difficulties posting here on Shakti Sadhana that I think stem from

these differences, and from my either not recognizing them, or not

according them the weight that others seem to think is imperative.

You may not trust my view on this, but I was there, and it seemed to

be something in the word of the mantra that the swami disdained.

That's what I got, anyway, from his repeating the word outside of

saying the mantra, and saying it the way that he did. But as I said,

he did not explain what he meant by his actions.

, Len Rosenberg

<kalipadma108> wrote:

>

> Len inserts comments below.

>

> --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote:

>

> > I received a mantra from Amma, Ammachi, as Len has

> > called her.

> >

> > I told Amma's attendants in Los Angeles which deity

> > I had chosen,

> > and that I wanted a mantra to the deity that is half

> > Shiva and half

> > Shakti. The assistant told me I had to choose one or

> > the other,

> > Shiva or Shakti. Then that person told Amma

> > something, and Amma gave

> > me a mantra that I knew was not the one I had asked

> > for. I went back

> > and told a Swami that I thought the attendant gave

> > Amma wrong

> > information because I knew the mantra she gave me

> > was not the one I

> > asked for. The swami I spoke to told me to keep the

> > mantra for a

> > year and then come back if I wanted to change it. I

> > said that the

> > fact that someone told Amma wrong information was

> > not a reason for

> > me to keep the wrong mantra for a year. So, they

> > took me up to Amma,

> > explained what had happened, and she gave me my

> > mantra.

> >

> > Though I felt wonderful when Amma gave me the

> > mantra, afterward, the

> > Swami that I was sent to to receive instructions

> > spoke kind of

> > harshly.

>

> Mary Ann, it is VERY unusual for a devotee to argue

> with the Guru, or the Guru's assistants. Amma is a

> Mahatma, she has certain psychic abilities. Do you

> think she would give you a mantra that was

> inappropriate? You seem to imply that the Swami was

> castigating you for being an "uppity woman," but I

> think a man who behaved similarly would have gotten

> similar harsh treatment.

>

> This does seem to explain why, in earlier posts, you

> claimed that the Swamis were not as reliable or

> helpful to Amma's devotees as Amma herself was.

>

> > Imagine a swami instructing you with his

> > arms across his

> > chest, sneering. He said one of the words by kind of

> > spitting it out

> > as if there was something wrong with it: rupinyai. I

> > remember that I

> > was still in a magical place from receiving the

> > mantra, and I

> > offered to hug him, and he said no.

>

> We're dealing with different cultures here, Mary Ann!

> A swami has taken a vow of brahmacharya. He is not

> supposed to entertain sexual thoughts, or even to be

> alone with a woman for extended periods. To

> Westerners, a hug is a simple gesture of reassurance;

> to a celibate priest, it's an offer by a "kamini"

> ("lustful woman") to press her attractive body against

> his, and arouse all sorts of sexual thoughts!

>

> > I do not know what he found

> > offensive about the mantra.

>

> I think he found your behavior offensive (i.e.,

> protesting at the original mantra Amma gave you), not

> the mantra per se. If you had asked for a mantra for

> "Ardhanarishvara" -- one deity (even though containing

> two), perhaps you wouldn't have gotten the hassle. Of

> course, if you had asked for "ArdhanarESHvarI" (the

> last vowels indicating that this is the androgyne with

> Shakti to the RIGHT side), there might have been

> similar quibbles...

>

> >

> > Since then, I have wondered what the words in it do

> > indicate. I

> > think there may be bias in certain tendencies in

> > language. I think

> > maybe the swami was saying that the mantra did not

> > equally honor the

> > feminine, but I don't really know, and haven't found

> > out yet. If

> > anyone knows, feel free to offer the information.

> > Maybe it depends

> > on the surrounding words, not just the one he "spit

> > out,"

>

> "Rupinyai" simply means "in the form of" with a

> feminine ending.

>

> > but I

> > haven't told my mantra to anyone because I was told

> > not to.

>

> Your mantra is secret, it should not be bandied about.

> If you have an acquaintance you trust who speaks

> Sanskrit, you might share it with her/him for

> translation.

>

> One of my coveners went to get a mantra from Ammachi.

> She had no strong feelings towards any of the Hindu

> deities (and didn't want a Jesus mantra, either --

> people get those!), so asked Amma to pick one for her.

> The mantra given her was a long list of Beejas (seed

> syllables) -- she wnted to know "what does it mean,"

> and shared it with ME, her Wiccan High Priest. She

> later left my coven after a big fight with me -- I

> don't think having shared her secret mantra with me

> helped any.

>

> >

> > Later, I read in a book that Amma actually

> > recommends that people

> > say the mantra I chose before they receive a mantra

> > from the guru.

> > And there was my mantra printed in that book.

> >

>

> No change? Amma usually "tweaks" the mantra for

> individuals, adding a particular Beeja, or otherwise

> personalizing it.

>

> Another Guru has mantras listed in a book that I

> bought, and imagine MY surprise when I saw the mantra

> Amma gave me, there in another Guru's text! But

> obviously, Amma felt this mantra was appropriate for

> me.

>

> There is a story about an ancient sage, whose Guru

> taught him a secret mantra. The sage felt EVERYONE

> should have the benefit of this mantra, and so taught

> it to everyone whom he met. That's how the Shiva

> Mahamantra (om namah shivaya) became universally known

> and is not kept a secret.

>

> -- Len

>

> FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.

> http://farechase.

>

October 28, 2005

Namaste Vikram. Yes, I do feel blessed by Amma. I am happy to hear of

your experience.

, vikram vanam

<vikram_vanam2005> wrote:

>

> Hi Ann

>

> Sorry to hear the experience that you did undergo but end of it you

were blessed and you got what you asked for

>

> Everyone surrounding a holy person need not have all the qualities

as there holy teacher

>

> Thankfully in my first experience, when I got to meet my Tibetan

Teacher, there were good and humble translators

>

October 28, 2005

I got Amma's darshan for the first time last week when she was here in

the UK. When she hugged me, she whispered something in my ear. She

repeated it several times. I had not asked her or her assistants for a

mantra or anything.

Was it a mantra? Do you only receive a mantra if you ask for it?

The worst of it is...she said it soooo fast I desperately tried to

remember it but I can't ( I only remember the last word!!

What to do?

, "Mary Ann"

<buttercookie61> wrote:

>

> I received a mantra from Amma, Ammachi, as Len has called her.

>

> I told Amma's attendants in Los Angeles which deity I had chosen,

> and that I wanted a mantra to the deity that is half Shiva and half

> Shakti. The assistant told me I had to choose one or the other,

> Shiva or Shakti. Then that person told Amma something, and Amma gave

> me a mantra that I knew was not the one I had asked for. I went back

> and told a Swami that I thought the attendant gave Amma wrong

> information because I knew the mantra she gave me was not the one I

> asked for. The swami I spoke to told me to keep the mantra for a

> year and then come back if I wanted to change it. I said that the

> fact that someone told Amma wrong information was not a reason for

> me to keep the wrong mantra for a year. So, they took me up to Amma,

> explained what had happened, and she gave me my mantra.

>

> Though I felt wonderful when Amma gave me the mantra, afterward, the

> Swami that I was sent to to receive instructions spoke kind of

> harshly. Imagine a swami instructing you with his arms across his

> chest, sneering. He said one of the words by kind of spitting it out

> as if there was something wrong with it: rupinyai. I remember that I

> was still in a magical place from receiving the mantra, and I

> offered to hug him, and he said no. I do not know what he found

> offensive about the mantra.

>

> Since then, I have wondered what the words in it do indicate. I

> think there may be bias in certain tendencies in language. I think

> maybe the swami was saying that the mantra did not equally honor the

> feminine, but I don't really know, and haven't found out yet. If

> anyone knows, feel free to offer the information. Maybe it depends

> on the surrounding words, not just the one he "spit out," but I

> haven't told my mantra to anyone because I was told not to.

>

> Later, I read in a book that Amma actually recommends that people

> say the mantra I chose before they receive a mantra from the guru.

> And there was my mantra printed in that book.

>

October 28, 2005

Len comments below.

--- Mary Ann <buttercookie61 wrote:

>

> The system in requesting a mantra from Amma, as I

> understand it, is

> that the person asks for the mantra of their

> choosing. Isn't that

> what you did?

Not exactly. My experience was, you tell an assistant

that you want a mantra. At some point while sitting

before Amma, she asks through an interpreter, "What

form of God do you worship?" You tell her your

Ishtadevata, and she chooses a mantra for you.

One of my coveners went up and said, "I want a Shiva

mantra, but I want one specifically for Nataraja, the

Dancing Lord. I don't wan to chant 'om namah

shivaya.'" This left the Swamis non-plussed for a

while, and my covener got to sit for half an hour

beside Ammachi, bathing in her aura (which got him

very high!). The Swamis later explained that they

were looking up in various texts whether there was a

particular configuration of syllables with which to

invoke Nataraja, and eventually they gave Amma the

mantra, which she gave to my coven-brother.

Another friend of mine, the late David Ganesh, who had

lived in India, went up and asked specifically for the

fifteen-syllable Shodasi mantra. He was told by the

Swamis that he needed to study for many years with a

Shree Vidya Guru to be initiated in that mantra, and

to pick another. He declined. A year or two later,

he went up for regular darshan to Amma, handed her an

index card on which he had written the 15 syllable

Shodasi mantra, and as she read it, he said, "I have

requested initiation in this mantra from you." It's

unclear what (if anything) Amma did -- I don't think

she whispered the mantra in David's ear. But from

that darshan hug, David "considered" himself initiated

in the 15 syllable mantra! (The hubris of the man!)

It was probably NOT a coincidence that David's health

rapidly declined thereafter, and he died about two or

three years later.

So the devotees ask Amma for some kind of mantra to

worship their Ishta with, but generally they don't ask

for (or get) a specific mantra of their choosing --

the choice is usually left to Amma.

> Why would you assume that I should

> take a mantra that

> I knew not to be the one I chose, due to having been

> told by an

> American assistant (not near Amma) that no mantra

> combined both

> Shiva and Shakti, and I needed to pick one or the

> other? That's

> ludicrous (imHo:)

Now I'm learning a new item. My experience is that

the men I call "Swamis" or "priests" are Indian men,

dressed in white or saffron robes, who are initiated

renunciate monks. If the guy who argued with you was

an American assistant, not an Indian, and probably

just dressed in white clothes, no robes, he was an

assistant but probably no Swami. (Amma has a few

American-born Swamis, but I gather that they usually

stay in the Kerala ashram.)

I still think that if you had asked for a mantra for

Ardhanarishvara, there would have been no problem.

But it's a moot point, now.

>

> Yes, there are definitely cultural differences, and

> I completely

> appreciate your sharing your views on that. I have

> encountered some

> difficulties posting here on Shakti Sadhana that I

> think stem from

> these differences, and from my either not

> recognizing them, or not

> according them the weight that others seem to think

> is imperative.

>

> You may not trust my view on this, but I was there,

> and it seemed to

> be something in the word of the mantra that the

> swami disdained.

> That's what I got, anyway, from his repeating the

> word outside of

> saying the mantra, and saying it the way that he

> did. But as I said,

> he did not explain what he meant by his actions.

My own experiences with the (Indian) Swamis has been

wonderful. I went back a few years after my mantra

initiation, and asked for a SECOND mantra. I

explained that I wanted to add Ganesha's blessing to

the Goddess mantra I had received. And a Swami

carefully explained to me that Amma only gives her

devotees ONE mantra to work with. That all the names

and forms of the various deities are portions of

Brahman, and "when you are talking to the Goddess, do

you think that Ganesha isn't hearing you, too?" He

suggested that I visualize Ganesha alongside the

Goddess as I perform my mantra, which I have been

doing. I also often visualize Amma as present, as

well. One of the introductory blessings in Tantric

(and Vedic, I think) ritual invokes 1.) Ganesha (to

remove obstacles), 2.) your Guru (for guidance), and

3.) the Shakti (for divine Power). And that works for

me.

-- Len

Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

October 28, 2005

--- her_asha <her_asha wrote:

> I got Amma's darshan for the first time last week

> when she was here in

> the UK. When she hugged me, she whispered something

> in my ear. She

> repeated it several times. I had not asked her or

> her assistants for a

> mantra or anything.

>

> Was it a mantra? Do you only receive a mantra if you

> ask for it?

Yes, you only receive a mantra if you ask for one.

Amma frequently whispers things in her devotees' ears.

It's a blessing. It can be in English, Sanskrit, or

a modern Indian language.

Some devotees swear that Amma chanted "My daughter, my

daughter," to them. (Even sometimes to men!) Others

thought it was "maddotta, maddotta," and wondered what

the word meant.

She often chants to me, "Ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma!"

Nine "Ma's." ("Ma" means "mother" in many Indian

langages.) Nine is Durga's number. I always get a

vivid mind-picture of goddess Durga when she chants

this.

On another occasion, Amma rubbed my chest and chanted

"rang... rang... rang... rang... rang!" Five "rang's"

-- "rang" is the Beeja mantra for Fire. (At first

hearing, I thought it was "Ram," that she was chanting

the name of the hero-king of the Ramayana.) Then I

had an image of five red triangles (red triangle is

the Tattva symbol for Fire), which circled around and

formed a pentacle! Since I'm also a Wiccan, I thought

that was significant!

But others have pointed out that Swamis sometimes

meditate amidst five fires -- bonfires around them at

North, South, East, and West, and under the blazing

Sun. So perhaps Amma was suggesting I needed to

meditate more?

> The worst of it is...she said it soooo fast I

> desperately tried to

> remember it but I can't ( I only remember the last

> word!!

>

> What to do?

Accept that you've been blessed. What was the last

word?

-- Len

Start your day with - Make it your home page!

http://www./r/hs

October 28, 2005

Hi Mary Ann,

I know what mantra you received from Amma- there is absolutely no

reason why the Swami should have been upset with you over this. Amma

rates this mantra very highly.

I think he got upset with you for your offer to hug him as Len

pointed out. This is very offensive to a celibate swami, more so if

you are a highly attractive female :-). it was like you were trying

to tempt him, something that these swamis are always on the gaurd

against especially while in the US. Of course your intentions were

highly honourable, and you did not intend anything devious. So you

can just forget about the Swami's response.

I know that at least one of Amma's swamis is very psychic, so there

may be some other reasons... but really who cares. You got your

mantra from Amma - thats what counts. You have also shown your

determination (and your sincerety in doing japa) by going and asking

to receive the correct mantra - Amma always observes such things and

I believe she views it positively...

-yogaman

, "Mary Ann"

<buttercookie61> wrote:

>

> Hi Len,

>

> The system in requesting a mantra from Amma, as I understand it, is

> that the person asks for the mantra of their choosing. Isn't that

> what you did? Why would you assume that I should take a mantra that

> I knew not to be the one I chose, due to having been told by an

> American assistant (not near Amma) that no mantra combined both

> Shiva and Shakti, and I needed to pick one or the other? That's

> ludicrous (imHo:)

>

> Yes, there are definitely cultural differences, and I completely

> appreciate your sharing your views on that. I have encountered some

> difficulties posting here on Shakti Sadhana that I think stem from

> these differences, and from my either not recognizing them, or not

> according them the weight that others seem to think is imperative.

>

> You may not trust my view on this, but I was there, and it seemed

to

> be something in the word of the mantra that the swami disdained.

> That's what I got, anyway, from his repeating the word outside of

> saying the mantra, and saying it the way that he did. But as I

said,

> he did not explain what he meant by his actions.

>

> , Len Rosenberg

> <kalipadma108> wrote:

> >

> > Len inserts comments below.

> >

> > --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote:

> >

> > > I received a mantra from Amma, Ammachi, as Len has

> > > called her.

> > >

> > > I told Amma's attendants in Los Angeles which deity

> > > I had chosen,

> > > and that I wanted a mantra to the deity that is half

> > > Shiva and half

> > > Shakti. The assistant told me I had to choose one or

> > > the other,

> > > Shiva or Shakti. Then that person told Amma

> > > something, and Amma gave

> > > me a mantra that I knew was not the one I had asked

> > > for. I went back

> > > and told a Swami that I thought the attendant gave

> > > Amma wrong

> > > information because I knew the mantra she gave me

> > > was not the one I

> > > asked for. The swami I spoke to told me to keep the

> > > mantra for a

> > > year and then come back if I wanted to change it. I

> > > said that the

> > > fact that someone told Amma wrong information was

> > > not a reason for

> > > me to keep the wrong mantra for a year. So, they

> > > took me up to Amma,

> > > explained what had happened, and she gave me my

> > > mantra.

> > >

> > > Though I felt wonderful when Amma gave me the

> > > mantra, afterward, the

> > > Swami that I was sent to to receive instructions

> > > spoke kind of

> > > harshly.

> >

> > Mary Ann, it is VERY unusual for a devotee to argue

> > with the Guru, or the Guru's assistants. Amma is a

> > Mahatma, she has certain psychic abilities. Do you

> > think she would give you a mantra that was

> > inappropriate? You seem to imply that the Swami was

> > castigating you for being an "uppity woman," but I

> > think a man who behaved similarly would have gotten

> > similar harsh treatment.

> >

> > This does seem to explain why, in earlier posts, you

> > claimed that the Swamis were not as reliable or

> > helpful to Amma's devotees as Amma herself was.

> >

> > > Imagine a swami instructing you with his

> > > arms across his

> > > chest, sneering. He said one of the words by kind of

> > > spitting it out

> > > as if there was something wrong with it: rupinyai. I

> > > remember that I

> > > was still in a magical place from receiving the

> > > mantra, and I

> > > offered to hug him, and he said no.

> >

> > We're dealing with different cultures here, Mary Ann!

> > A swami has taken a vow of brahmacharya. He is not

> > supposed to entertain sexual thoughts, or even to be

> > alone with a woman for extended periods. To

> > Westerners, a hug is a simple gesture of reassurance;

> > to a celibate priest, it's an offer by a "kamini"

> > ("lustful woman") to press her attractive body against

> > his, and arouse all sorts of sexual thoughts!

> >

> > > I do not know what he found

> > > offensive about the mantra.

> >

> > I think he found your behavior offensive (i.e.,

> > protesting at the original mantra Amma gave you), not

> > the mantra per se. If you had asked for a mantra for

> > "Ardhanarishvara" -- one deity (even though containing

> > two), perhaps you wouldn't have gotten the hassle. Of

> > course, if you had asked for "ArdhanarESHvarI" (the

> > last vowels indicating that this is the androgyne with

> > Shakti to the RIGHT side), there might have been

> > similar quibbles...

> >

> > >

> > > Since then, I have wondered what the words in it do

> > > indicate. I

> > > think there may be bias in certain tendencies in

> > > language. I think

> > > maybe the swami was saying that the mantra did not

> > > equally honor the

> > > feminine, but I don't really know, and haven't found

> > > out yet. If

> > > anyone knows, feel free to offer the information.

> > > Maybe it depends

> > > on the surrounding words, not just the one he "spit

> > > out,"

> >

> > "Rupinyai" simply means "in the form of" with a

> > feminine ending.

> >

> > > but I

> > > haven't told my mantra to anyone because I was told

> > > not to.

> >

> > Your mantra is secret, it should not be bandied about.

> > If you have an acquaintance you trust who speaks

> > Sanskrit, you might share it with her/him for

> > translation.

> >

> > One of my coveners went to get a mantra from Ammachi.

> > She had no strong feelings towards any of the Hindu

> > deities (and didn't want a Jesus mantra, either --

> > people get those!), so asked Amma to pick one for her.

> > The mantra given her was a long list of Beejas (seed

> > syllables) -- she wnted to know "what does it mean,"

> > and shared it with ME, her Wiccan High Priest. She

> > later left my coven after a big fight with me -- I

> > don't think having shared her secret mantra with me

> > helped any.

> >

> > >

> > > Later, I read in a book that Amma actually

> > > recommends that people

> > > say the mantra I chose before they receive a mantra

> > > from the guru.

> > > And there was my mantra printed in that book.

> > >

> >

> > No change? Amma usually "tweaks" the mantra for

> > individuals, adding a particular Beeja, or otherwise

> > personalizing it.

> >

> > Another Guru has mantras listed in a book that I

> > bought, and imagine MY surprise when I saw the mantra

> > Amma gave me, there in another Guru's text! But

> > obviously, Amma felt this mantra was appropriate for

> > me.

> >

> > There is a story about an ancient sage, whose Guru

> > taught him a secret mantra. The sage felt EVERYONE

> > should have the benefit of this mantra, and so taught

> > it to everyone whom he met. That's how the Shiva

> > Mahamantra (om namah shivaya) became universally known

> > and is not kept a secret.

> >

> > -- Len

> >

> > FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.

> > http://farechase.

> >

>

October 29, 2005

I am finding it difficult to understand why would a teacher depend on his/her

students to pull out a mantra from scriptures to give initiations to his/her

students

Its only when the teacher has acheived in receiving the benefits of the mantra

that he/her received can only then give it to there students

Len Rosenberg <kalipadma108 wrote:

Len comments below.

--- Mary Ann <buttercookie61 wrote:

>

> The system in requesting a mantra from Amma, as I

> understand it, is

> that the person asks for the mantra of their

> choosing. Isn't that

> what you did?

October 29, 2005

I want to share this particualr incidence with members.

My sister was taking training in Bharatnatyam dancing and was very

passionate about it. Infact, she wanted tobe a professional dancer.

She met Sringeri acharayal(Like amma) and asked for blessing. but, he turned

his head and refused to bless her. She felt very humuliated and wanted to

know the reason. She spoke to his assistant, but, acharayal refused to give

any reason.

She persued her dancing and gave some programmes while she went to study in

states. She could have even married and settled in States. Instead, her

passion for dancing was so intense, she decided to return and continue her

training. - She met her future parter via parents recommendation, He was in

art field and promised that he would give her all the encouragement to

continue.

The fact is, after marriage his family objected and he refused to give her

permission. To cut short the whole story , this marriage was a total

disappointment . Now, neither she works nor persues dancing. Infact, she has

no interest in dancing. Dance remained a failed dream.

Why I am narrating this incidence is that maybe acharayal could forsee her

future that is the reason he did not bless her.

The difference between ordinary and truely spritually evolved people is that

they can forsee the future but we are trapped with present desire or

problems.

October 29, 2005

Hi Len,

I think it's great that you've had good experiences with Swamis,

assistants, etc. But when other people have different kinds of

experiences, it doesn't make those people wrong, mistaken, lesser,

unevolved, disrespectful, etc. Your friend's illness may have been

part of his blessing. As Shakespeare said, "there are more things in

Heaven and Earth... than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

You seem to have a strong punishment-oriented view -- not uncommon

in this world, but known to be painful. When I read your posts to me

on this topic, I remembered your comments about your body in

previous posts re hathayoga. I wondered at a possible connection

between the physical difficulties and the punishing mentality - I'm

not making a direct causal link, necessarily, but I felt a hint of a

possible link of some sort.

Are you familiar with Marshall Rosenberg's work? I recently listened

to Speaking Peace - Connecting With Others Through Nonviolent

Communication, and from there, have already ordered more, and

purchased CDs of his as gifts. It's wonderful work, simple

techniques that effectively changing relationship . He teaches

worldwide, individuals, couples, groups, governments. I highly

recommend it.

Namaste,

Mary Ann

October 29, 2005

Thanks yogaman. I think the swami was ruffled because instead of

following his direction, I asked him to let Amma know the

information of my exchange with the American assistant. I am

thankful that he did do that, but that may have been part of his

annoyance. Like, what's so great about this mantra? I

mean, "rupinyai" after all! ;-)

This fear swamis may have of interacting with women reminds me of a

criticism I read of the cave-dwelling kind of spiritual attainment:

that it's so much easier to maintain a sense of integrity in

accordance with book-learned spiritual principles (as opposed to

fully realized ones) by living in a cave and not interacting with

that in oneself which challenges the ego.

Namaste,

Mary Ann

, "childofdevi"

<childofdevi> wrote:

>

> Hi Mary Ann,

>

> I know what mantra you received from Amma- there is absolutely no

> reason why the Swami should have been upset with you over this.

Amma

> rates this mantra very highly.

>

> I think he got upset with you for your offer to hug him as Len

> pointed out. This is very offensive to a celibate swami, more so

if

> you are a highly attractive female :-). it was like you were

trying

> to tempt him, something that these swamis are always on the gaurd

> against especially while in the US. Of course your intentions were

> highly honourable, and you did not intend anything devious. So you

> can just forget about the Swami's response.

>

> I know that at least one of Amma's swamis is very psychic, so

there

> may be some other reasons... but really who cares. You got your

> mantra from Amma - thats what counts. You have also shown your

> determination (and your sincerety in doing japa) by going and

asking

> to receive the correct mantra - Amma always observes such things

and

> I believe she views it positively...

>

> -yogaman

October 29, 2005

Hi Rajeshwariji,

Thanks for sharing this story. May I ask which Acharya you are

referring to - I think it is the former Sringeri Acharya who was a

great saint.

Also I believe that even if there is a possibility of disasters

happening at a later time, these can be changed with our sincere

sadhana, thoughts and intentions. I see this sometimes when looking

at astrological charts, where at very bad times, everything goes on

smoothly. Again somewhere in the Bhagavatam, there is a saying (I am

not sure if this is by Narada or Akrura or someone else) "That after

travelling all over the world, I have observed that the good man who

is steadfastedly devoted to God never suffers".

-yogaman

, "rajeshwari iyer"

<rajii31@h...> wrote:

>

> I want to share this particualr incidence with members.

>

> My sister was taking training in Bharatnatyam dancing and was very

> passionate about it. Infact, she wanted tobe a professional dancer.

>

> She met Sringeri acharayal(Like amma) and asked for blessing. but,

he turned

> his head and refused to bless her. She felt very humuliated and

wanted to

> know the reason. She spoke to his assistant, but, acharayal refused

to give

> any reason.

>

> She persued her dancing and gave some programmes while she went to

study in

> states. She could have even married and settled in States.

Instead, her

> passion for dancing was so intense, she decided to return and

continue her

> training. - She met her future parter via parents recommendation,

He was in

> art field and promised that he would give her all the

encouragement to

> continue.

>

> The fact is, after marriage his family objected and he refused to

give her

> permission. To cut short the whole story , this marriage was a

total

> disappointment . Now, neither she works nor persues dancing.

Infact, she has

> no interest in dancing. Dance remained a failed dream.

>

> Why I am narrating this incidence is that maybe acharayal could

forsee her

> future that is the reason he did not bless her.

>

> The difference between ordinary and truely spritually evolved

people is that

> they can forsee the future but we are trapped with present desire

or

> problems.

>

October 29, 2005

Hi Vikram,

These rules apply to relatively ordinary Gurus, who may have attained

mantra-siddhi in one particular mantra.

Limitation to initiating many mantras does not apply to great saintly

avatars (eg Sivananda, Ramakrishna etc) who have been known to

initiate people in lots of mantra. They could probably even initiate

some into mantra like "Bullshit" :-), they can imbue any mantra with

considerable power by their very intention.

-yogaman

, vikram vanam

<vikram_vanam2005> wrote:

>

> I am finding it difficult to understand why would a teacher depend

on his/her students to pull out a mantra from scriptures to give

initiations to his/her students

>

> Its only when the teacher has acheived in receiving the benefits of

the mantra that he/her received can only then give it to there

students

>

> Len Rosenberg <kalipadma108> wrote:

>

> Len comments below.

>

> --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote:

>

> >

> > The system in requesting a mantra from Amma, as I

> > understand it, is

> > that the person asks for the mantra of their

> > choosing. Isn't that

> > what you did?

>

October 29, 2005

It is true. It is also my understanding that REAL saintly avatar-like Jagad

Gurus, as you have just mentioned, can be of any tradition or lineage and

initiate into many types of mantras (i.e, Shaivite Mahatma can give one a Vishnu

Mantra, etc.).

Regarding AMMACHI and her use of the Swamis to facilitate giving mantras: I feel

that Mahatmas such as AMMACHI should NEVER be second guessed. Her use of the

Swamis should be viewed as her personal "Leela" or play. She does it that way,

as she knows best, and it is never our place to guess or speculate on what power

she has imbued in those "swamis" to facilitate those mantras from her.

The Eastern way is to take unquestioningly what a true Guru has given, whereas

the Western tendency is to question everything and everybody; parents, Gurus,

God, and everything else, as we always want to lead with the intellect. It is a

cultural dichotomy that definitely can't be reconciled here in a few sentences.

My two rupees.

JANARDANA DAS

childofdevi <childofdevi wrote:

Hi Vikram,

These rules apply to relatively ordinary Gurus, who may have attained

mantra-siddhi in one particular mantra.

Limitation to initiating many mantras does not apply to great saintly

avatars (eg Sivananda, Ramakrishna etc) who have been known to

initiate people in lots of mantra. They could probably even initiate

some into mantra like "Bullshit" :-), they can imbue any mantra with

considerable power by their very intention.

-yogaman

, vikram vanam

<vikram_vanam2005> wrote:

>

> I am finding it difficult to understand why would a teacher depend

on his/her students to pull out a mantra from scriptures to give

initiations to his/her students

>

> Its only when the teacher has acheived in receiving the benefits of

the mantra that he/her received can only then give it to there

students

>

> Len Rosenberg <kalipadma108> wrote:

>

> Len comments below.

>

> --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote:

>

> >

> > The system in requesting a mantra from Amma, as I

> > understand it, is

> > that the person asks for the mantra of their

> > choosing. Isn't that

> > what you did?

>

Visit your group "" on the web.

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

October 29, 2005

> annoyance. Like, what's so great about this mantra? I

Ah, when you get a mantra that venerates She who is of the combined

form of Shiva and Shakti, you got two for the price of one if you ask

me LOL.

-yogaman

October 29, 2005

Namaste everyone: I must tell you that I was mantra initiated by

Ammachy, just the way it is mentiioned here. yes, it was the swamis

who found me the mantra, but having full trust in her, I never

doubted that SHE is the doer of every action. This was years back

and there is nothing that will persuade me otherwise, not when you

have hadas good a glimpse of who she really is as I have had.

Nelson Majano

, Janardana Dasa

<lightdweller> wrote:

>

> Regarding AMMACHI and her use of the Swamis to facilitate giving

mantras: I feel that Mahatmas such as AMMACHI should NEVER be second

guessed. Her use of the Swamis should be viewed as her

personal "Leela" or play. She does it that way, as she knows best,

and it is never our place to guess or speculate on what power she

has imbued in those "swamis" to facilitate those mantras from her.

>

> The Eastern way is to take unquestioningly what a true Guru has

given, whereas the Western tendency is to question everything and

everybody; parents, Gurus, God, and everything else, as we always

want to lead with the intellect. It is a cultural dichotomy that

definitely can't be reconciled here in a few sentences.

October 30, 2005

And what is so wonderful in how Ammachi has come to the west is that

she is allows and invites western ways of experiencing, acting,

receiving, etc. without judgment. She is aware that east and west

each have their good and not so good qualities. My experience is

that she does not think that all should be or act just the way it is

expected or required in one place only. Why, that would be death in

life! Ammachi reaches so many people with such a wonderful message

of how a loving, compassionate heart is God, and that we should not

judge others, or speak ill of others. To do so is to judge and speak

ill of ourselves, and of the Self.

, "Azul Lejos"

<azulejo6682> wrote:

>

> Namaste everyone: I must tell you that I was mantra initiated by

> Ammachy, just the way it is mentiioned here. yes, it was the

swamis

> who found me the mantra, but having full trust in her, I never

> doubted that SHE is the doer of every action. This was years back

> and there is nothing that will persuade me otherwise, not when you

> have hadas good a glimpse of who she really is as I have had.

>

> Nelson Majano

>

> , Janardana Dasa

> <lightdweller> wrote:

> >

> > Regarding AMMACHI and her use of the Swamis to facilitate giving

> mantras: I feel that Mahatmas such as AMMACHI should NEVER be

second

> guessed. Her use of the Swamis should be viewed as her

> personal "Leela" or play. She does it that way, as she knows

best,

> and it is never our place to guess or speculate on what power she

> has imbued in those "swamis" to facilitate those mantras from her.

> >

> > The Eastern way is to take unquestioningly what a true Guru has

> given, whereas the Western tendency is to question everything and

> everybody; parents, Gurus, God, and everything else, as we always

> want to lead with the intellect. It is a cultural dichotomy that

> definitely can't be reconciled here in a few sentences.

>

October 30, 2005

;-)

, "childofdevi"

<childofdevi> wrote:

>

> > annoyance. Like, what's so great about this mantra? I

>

> Ah, when you get a mantra that venerates She who is of the combined

> form of Shiva and Shakti, you got two for the price of one if you

ask

> me LOL.

>

> -yogaman

>

October 30, 2005

>Ammachi reaches so many people with such a >wonderful message

>of how a loving, compassionate heart is God, and >that we should not

>judge others, or speak ill of others. To do so is >to judge and speak

>ill of ourselves, and of the Self.

And yet you have judged the swami who initiated you with the mantra. How

hypocritical

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