mahak

Haribol. The owner of this site published mantra one of this work by Sriman Siddhaswarupananda a few months ago. Since there is no TV program, perhaps this will help. I will try to update occasionally. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa ...... Sri Ishopanishad: Mantra One “Everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord One should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself; which are set aside as his quota, and one should not accept other things, knowing well to whom they belong.” One of the definitions of God is that He is the origin of everything, the original cause of all causes. Everything animate (living) and inanimate (nonliving) comes from Him. All energies emanate from Him. In the Bhagavad-gita the Supreme Lord states: “Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, and false ego -altogether these eight comprise My separated material energies. Besides this inferior nature, 0 mighty-armed Arjuna, there is a superior energy of Mine, which is all living entities who are struggling with material nature and are sustaining the universe.” -BHAGAVAD-GITA: 7:4-5 Since all energies emanate from the Supreme Lord, everything -both living and nonliving-is His. In this world, people are always fighting over property. They want to stake their claims of ownership on both the living and the nonliving. According to the Sri Ishopanishad, these people are like thieves fighting over stolen loot. If we look at the question from the relatively short- term view, we may find it hard to accept that no one is really an owner of anything. But if we adopt the point of view of the Sri Ishopanishad-which sees the universe not in terms of decades, centuries, or even thousands of years, but in terms of many millions of years-then we can understand this point. For example, who owns the moon? Both the Americans and the Russians, for instance, have contemplated mining the moon in order to build artificial planets called space colonies. According to the Sri Ishopanishad it is God who owns outer space, the earth, and, all living beings. A piece of God's property may be controlled to a limited extent by a temporarily powerful man or nation, but in due course-whether over hundreds of years or hundreds of thousands of years-such men die and such nations dissolve. The fight over God's property causes living beings great distress. If people could only recognize the truth of this first mantra- that everything and everyone belongs to God, and that as His children all living beings have a right to the necessities of their existence -then the world would be at peace. There is enough in the world to fulfill everyone's needs, but not enough to fulfill everyone's greed. In some parts of the world people are dying from severe undernourishment, while in other parts of the world people are dying from obesity. By nature's arrangement, a person can eat only a certain amount; this amount depends upon the size of his stomach, his ability to digest the food, and so on. An elephant's quota is fixed at a hundred pounds or so of hay a day; a bird's quota is fixed at a few seeds, or a little bit of fruit. A human being's quota also is fixed. A man's stomach is limited in size; thus, how much he can digest is limited. To eat more than can be digested is sinful. Some people in the West try to get around this natural limit by artificial means. Their desire for sense gratification is so great that it drives them to all kinds of crazy actions. In order to eat as much as they desire (rather than as much as they need), they have resorted to such things as shortening the length of their intestines so that fewer nutrients are absorbed from the food that they eat, and to taking pills that keep food from being digested. One of today's more popular methods was quite popular in ancient Rome as well-"vomiting. A person eats to his fullest, induces vomiting, and then fills his belly again. Some people spend all day like this, eating and vomiting. Another way in which people take more than their quota is by accumulating vast amounts of money and property-far more than anyone could possibly use in a single lifetime. Nelson Rockefeller, for instance, was so wealthy that he had dozens of huge houses, and in each of his houses he had huge golden beds. But he had only one body, and so he could sleep only in one bed at a time, under the roof of one house at a time. Greedy, wealthy people also have huge bank accounts that contain far more money than they could ever really need. This is another manifestation of greed. Such hoarding runs directly counter to the teachings of the Sri Ishopanishad. Why does a person claim ownership of a thing or of another person? To control it or them. And why does he want to control it? Usually because he wants to be the enjoyer of it. For example, a child claims ownership of a piece of candy so he can control it. Why does he want to control it? So he can enjoy the taste of it. He can't enjoy the taste unless he has control over it-unless he can pick it up and put it in his mouth. To "buy" a piece of candy from a store is to transfer the ownership from the store to the customer. After a customer has paid for the candy, he is given control over it. He isn't allowed to control it until he owns it; only then can he do with it as he pleases. If you walked into a store and started eating food off the shelves without paying for it, you might be prosecuted. You would be told you couldn't do what you wanted with the food until you became the owner of it. The owner of something is considered its rightful enjoyer. Seen in this light, the first mantra's declaration that the Supreme Lord is the ultimate owner and controller also declares Him to be the ultimate rightful enjoyer of everything and everyone. Everything that exists is meant to please Him. He is the center around which everything revolves. Unfortunately, a person who is materialistic, greedy, and self-worshipping wants to take the place of God; he sees himself as the center of the universe. He sees everything and everyone-the world, people, his family, animals, plants, the environment-as revolving around him. He sees everything and everyone as meant for his enjoyment. The world is full of such exploitative people, and they cause so many problems. If a person sees himself as the Supreme Enjoyer, he will automatically live a life of exploitation. He will not respect others or the environment, nor will he care for the well-being of others. He will lead a hedonistic life of unrestricted sense enjoyment, lording over everything and everyone. Although human in form, he will be no more than an animal who lives by the philosophy, "might makes right." However, serious students of the Sri Ishopanishad will know these truths: 1. I am spirit soul, not matter. I am a spark of God. 2. Although my essence is non-different from God's (i.e., spirit), I am not the Supreme Spirit. I am the dominated part and parcel of God. I am not God. 3. As a dominated part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit, my natural function is to be engaged in loving service to Him. I cannot find complete happiness in material sense gratification because I am spirit, not matter. I need spiritual food-loving service to God. Since my position is dominated-I am not the supreme controller-my natural activity is to render loving service to the Supreme Lord. To try to be the lord and enjoyer is unnatural and leads only to frustration and misery. On a practical level, if people lived by the first mantra of the Sri Ishopanishad, the effect would be great. These enlightened people would live as caretakers, not exploiters. Since they would see everyone as God's children, they would see the inalienable right of all God's children to partake in God's bounties. God's property is rightfully meant for the well-being and sustenance of all His children. Once individuals understand this, they will not see their private property-including their own bodies -as really theirs. They will see themselves as caretakers, not owners, of God's property. They will use what is in their possession in a manner that is consistent with the Absolute Truth of God's ownership. It is not that individual "ownership" of anything and everything must be, or even could be, banned. As children of God, each of us can possess His property and use it both for our own sustenance and for the welfare of our family, neighborhood, society, state, nation, and world. It is not that a theocracy of self-appointed "servants of God" should control all property. Indeed, nothing could be more dangerous and more against the meaning of the first mantra of the Sri Ishopanishad. So-called religious leaders who seek political power in order to control all properties and people deny the fact that all people are children of God, and that therefore all people have the right to possess and use His property for their sustenance and in His service. There is nothing more dangerous to real religion than fanatics who seek to lord over others by force in the name of God. Nor is false renunciation desirable. You may say, "God owns everything, therefore I am going to give up ownership of my watch. I'll throw it away." But how can you give up what is not yours in the first place? It's not possible. To say "I'm going to give away my watch" shows that you think you own the watch. Obviously you couldn't give away the watch if it wasn't yours. For example, if the watch belonged to your father, who merely lent it to you for a short while, you would not say, "I'm going to give up my watch." To give up what is in one's possession, to think "I'm going to give up all my things," is based on the illusion of ownership. Real renunciation is different. Real renunciation means to understand that everything in your possession isn't really yours-it is God's. The practical application of this understanding is the change in use of one's things. Instead of using possessions for your sense enjoyment only, if you are enlightened, you will use them for the glorification of God and the welfare of the people, who are all God's children. An individual, a family, or a government that understands the first mantra of the Sri Ishopanishad sees itself in the role of caretaker, not owner or exploiter. -END-

Haribol. This looks like a good place to discuss "guilt". Modern psychology tries to make guilt into a bad thing, but it is actually a function of communication between chaita guru and the self. To disregard guilt feelings is to ignore the entire guru-tattwa process. Modernism and secular humanism artificially get rid of the "witness" bird in the tree. So, if theology is pollutede by these materialistic theories, havoc is spiritual quest is guaranteed. Im guilty as charged, as felt internally, and I need help from all the acaryas, Mary and her Son Jesus Christ as well. If they will kindly intercede and intervene, it is my greatest fortune. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa 11-14-77

Haribol, sorona. Yes, it is unfortunate that a whole theology is based on murder, assassination, and suffering. But one must consider the actual history, the actual teachings of the philosopher that a philosophy is based on. In the christian (Catholic) matter, it is unfortunate that political coercion has taken place, through the councils, through the book burnings, through the revisionism. All of this is not a surprise, though, it is better called sectarianism, which is the last snare keeping the self away from actual spiritual life. One who wants the real without the contrived, they must eventually reject all sectarianism in favor of obtaining actual absolute truth from the acaryas, those who exhibit actual transcendental love of God. Mary, Lord Jesus Christ, and a few others in christian history actually are acaryas in every sense of the term. Such hooking-up means rejecting most if not all of those who claim the same masters. What Jesus says is quite different than what is said that he said, or how he is translated through the consciousnesses of popes, apostles, and others who may have other motivations than the original acaryas. The componants of the rosary (back to the topic) are the Lord's Prayer, and the Hail Mary. These two prayers are powerful if the reciter is sincere about spiritual life. If the prayers are mechanically performed, (as Sirona accurately describes the Catholic idealism), the effect may be short-circuited. The mahamantra is not immune from mechanical shortfalls. Though there is concession in the kanistha stage for offense while chanting Hare Krsna, the mahamantra has effect when chanted with full attention, without concern for numbers to impress others, without concern for anything other than the sound vibration from the tongue, lips, to the ears. So, again I ask that Vaisnavas consider the actual potency of the prayers of the Rosary itself, without regard for the politics of ruined and useless religions. The so-called morbidity of the emphasis of suffering is not to be rejected either, for this may be the price needed to be paid for spiritual life. When one decides to be a Bhakti Yoga practitioner, they declare war on everything around them, social, political, even natural forced ready for attack of such avowed enemies. The sorrowful mysteries of suffering is not necessarily a means of a Catholic weiping all their bloody karma off on Jesus, rather a teaching that to fulfill the terms of initiation by Lord Jesus Christ means that we take up such a cross ourselves, and even take on others as well in the service of Mary and Jesus. haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

Haribol, good discussion here, reality internet, whatta concept. Srila Prabhupada always emphasized that taking to Krsna Consciousness is a gradual process. In the old days when He first came west, virtually all of his disciples had vices much worse than just fermented hops and tobacco. He did not overexert to make these devotees quit their vices, his entire emphasis was to purify with Harinama. Ya see, we all have full cups. Prabhupada, and vaisnavism as a whole, is a positive process. Other yoga systems practice rigid renunciation and self-deprivation, but this is not needed. In this age, all that is required is Harinam. The unwanted thing will gradually fall off as the consciousness becomes purified by harinam. Of course later, if one wanted initiation, a promise is made to guru to follow his program, whatever he decides. He nevertheless has thousands of disciples that never made such a formal promise, but he does not reject them, he encourages always. The promise to Srimati Tulasi devi is a form of purification, in that your desire to get unaddicted is such that you have the sense to ask for help. But Tulasi Devi, being the toipmost vasinava and fully in madurya rasa, is also merciful and is still helping. Like Srila Prabhupada, She knows that relationship between devotees is a two way street. As Prabhupada commits himself to his ward, even in the event that the reciprocation is flawed by the likes of us rascals, his commitment has no such flaw. So we always get spiritual strength from observation of such a display of unconditional love exhibited by Prabhupada and Srimati Tulasi devi, that we try to improve, not overly discouraged by our setbacks, but with a little improvement in our ultimate determination. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

LORD JESUS CHRIST KATHA (part 1) Haribol, all glories to the assembled devotees. All glories to Lord Jesus Christ, Sri Krsna's most confidential servant. This is His season, so I humbly pay tribute to his mission. Lord Jesus Christ did not advertize himself, he did not even care to hear his disciples describe him as "my good rabbi", deferring the title "good" to be applied only to the One Who sent Him. The perfection of relationship between God and man was, thus, nicely displayed for those who have ears. Jesus wants ABBA, ELOI, JAHOVIA, His dearmost Father, advertized as the primary receptacle of our LOVE, to all segments of society, no matter whether one is of David and Solomon, or outside as Gentile, without desiring to become famous in His own right. Sri Krsna is so pleased with the work of His only begotten Son (see the creator, Lord Brahma, begotten from the lotus) that this Son has become the most famous human being throughout history, so much so that even the Buddhist atheist must acknowledge, the whole world is talking millenium madness, year 2000, all based on the appearance of this simple carpenter's son who befriended the fishers of men. If this is not yoga, rasa, yoking, then yoga has no meaning. An important fact of Lord Jesus Christ's teachings can be applied to concern about potential Vaikuntha falldown, as follows. His disciples, who were, by the way, fully aware of transmigration of the soul, (another story, perhaps another day), asked Him if it was better to be at home with the Lord and away from the body or at home with the body and away from the Lord. Lord Jesus Christ answered by not choosing between the two, rather giving absolute Vaisnava instruction, "Whether at home with the Lord and away from the body or at home with the body and away from the Lord, our business is to SERVE THE LORD." Perfect and complete instructions, and, as such, these instructions are completely perfect. Bhakti-yoga is non-dependent of personal salvation, thus, even salvation and the liberation of becoming one with the Lord is rejected by the Vaisnava. So many (so-called) Christians, salvationists, do not have ears to hear from Him, all they want is a heaven lined with gold, not even necessarily wanting to be with Him, just unlimited and eternal enjoyment of their own selfish interest, me-me-me, yet at the time of His samadhi, Lord Jesus Christ went to hell to serve His Father's desires. This is all contained in the very-tampered-with biblical scripture, yet there is enough true NECTAR left from Lord Jesus Christ's teachings that one is only foolish to reject Him. In tribute to Lord Jesus Christ, I shall publish here a story of His mission, with my head on the ground in obiesance to Srila Prabhupada, who gives us all access to His teachings. LORD JESUS CHRIST KATHA (part 2) Never is there harm in speaking about the Vaisnava, however, we must hear properly first before recitation, otherwise we mislead others with relative truth. The validity of scriptual evidence about Lord Jesus Christ's pastimes is always in question, because those entrusted with caretaking His message have allowed interpretation, editing, omission, and other dealings for two millenia. This is a hidden lesson all devotees should be in tune with, as this tendency continues within our own parampara. Many devotees do not care to hear about Lord Jesus Christ, and their reasons are not altogether unfounded nor ill-advised, for the common beliefs about this important Acarya are mired in speculations of the mukti-bhukti habits common to man-made-religionists. Yet, even with this disclaimer of no pure sampradaya, Srila Prabhupada made clear points about Lord Jesus Christ that no one can deny. Had rejection of this devotee been the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, there would be no mention of His validity in his books. But this is not the case, and, as I do not provide citations to verify, I encourage all his followers to research his books to find out what he actually says about Him. Two important prayers that have been relegated to children songs in this dark age of atheism describe the Mission of Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord's Prayer and the Hail Mary. The article below indicates the bhakti that can be realized from mere recitation of these prayers. Just as no one should speak on behalf of Srila Prabhupada if they cannot utter the Mahamantra, similarly, one should never comment on Lord Jesus Christ unless they FOLLOW His order and "Pray like Me, Our Father...". I will not write this prayer as we should all be familiar with the words. Subserviant to the purport of Sri Siksastakam, the Divine Author, Sri Gauranga, and His representative, Sri Gurudeva, and bowing in obiesance with head on the ground, reciting the Lord's Prayer, all confusion ceases and one becomes dhira (unconfused). Lord Jesus Christ gives mantra to all who will take, hallowed be the Names of Our Father. His mother, Mary, demonstrates intercession, rasa, and pure bhakti, and also gives us mantra, the Lord is with Her, She is full of Grace. This is proven by the guru-shastra-sadhu criteria, and their lives are present in Sound. The memory of the Nectar of Instruction, that which is carefully salvaged from the rubble of the schisms and interpretations of the pretender, is sufficient to deliver the swan-like devotees to him. Lord Jesus Christ teaches Love of God without fear, without limitation, free from selfish interest. Bhukti (selfish world contentment) and mukti (desires to be free from misery) are not part of His teachings and are not the goals he tries to humbly show us for ultimate happiness, the only requirement is sincere surrender to the will of the Lord and reciprocation with His unconditional love. Please hear. I cannot write this for the so-called christian, for they have no idea of rasa. They care not for the pleasure of Joseph looking down at the smiling Christ-child in his arms. All they can do is take some of His words to conquer the "heathens" and teach them to serve His shadow. I beg forgiveness for offending some by singing His glories occasionally, but I cannot refrain from doing so. Suffice it to say, a Christian is as rare as a Vaisnava, and we all have had the great fortune of knowing both in one person, His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada. LORD JESUS CHRIST KATHA (part 3) I do no such artificial deification of Lord Jesus Christ, yet try to hear from Him in light of acintya-bheda-bheda-tattva, that is, his purpose is non-different from whom he calls Abbah, Eloy, Jahovia, etc. Lord Jesus Christ's mission is consistant with his being sent by the Supreme Lord. Read on for clarifications. THE MAGI -c-1995-mahaksadasa Two thousand years ago, three mystic travelers practicing worship of the Supreme Lord, became enlightened by this service. Through the science of astrological calculations, this Object of their worship led them from Kurdistan, Afghanistan, and India, to Bayt Lahm. Gathering spices, exotic resins, and gold for sacrificial offering, they were led to the birthsite of a simple newborn in very humble surroundings. Although a royal heir to both Davidian and Solomonic branches of the dynasty of Israel, this child was born in bondage to Rome. Yet, because these three travelers were devoted to the Lord, they were led to His most confidential servant, Lord Jesus Christ. Celebrating his birth with sweet honour, they returned to their homes, not at all deviating from the religion which satisfied their desires for redemption. They knew of NO King James, Aquinas, nor of Christian Coalitions, yet they practiced yoga, became unified in purpose and service to the one Supreme Personality of Godhead. Many of today's so-called christians are very uncomfortable with a description of the Maji and their religious practices. They are more uncomfortable with historical data concerning Lord Jesus Christ's appearance, his Essene religious practice of healing arts, his travels between the ages of twelve to thirty, etc. For some strange reason, they say God incarnated as His son and studied carpentry for more than half his years on earth. These same people have elevated a demoniac King James of England to a position of spiritual authority, thus impersonalizing the greatest of philosophers. Lord Jesus Christ never says that he IS his Father, and when his disciples tried to exalt his position, he always defers to his Father. By nullifying the Father, one nullifies the son and the wonderful relationship existing between Father and Son, the relationship Lord Jesus Christ tries to share with the world. The present christianity espoused by the bigoted, unloving, uncaring materialists is not only useless, it is most offensive to those desiring to follow the precepts of Lord Jesus Christ. Using the banner of the cross (the weapon used to kill him), they villify the followers of Muhammed, Sri Chaitanya, and others who are not against their so-called lord. They say that Jesus is the absolute, only salvation, whereas Lord Jesus Christ admonishes his disciples' criticisms of outsiders, saying, "Those not against are with us." Fanatics want to convert by force and coersion. Lord Jesus Christ converts by free choice and love. Those who think christians are better and more loved by God than others who are more oriented to His purpose and devoted to the Lord are offenders to the Holy Names and are rejected. Lord Jesus speaks of loving enemies, what to speak of loving his children who lovingly call Him by other Names. Lord Jesus Christ is the son of David via Joseph, and the son of Solomon via the maternity of Mary, the Axumite Hebrew. Scripture concerning his early travels exist in Bengal, Tibet, Yucatan, Iraq, etc., yet King James hid them from his professional writers contracted to translate. A concoction called "trinity" has been placed in the minds of modern christians, frustrated into calling Him a "mystery". Although trinity is clear, that is, three distinct and separate aspects of divinity, (internal, external, and marginal potencies), singular in purpose, an impersonalist hodgepodge philosophy which keeps all people away from the Lord is in place. If the son IS the Father, then neither can exist. The truth is clear, only the concoctions by the king are "mysterious". Lord Jesus Christ teaches to develop our love with his Father, and the Father, via Paramatma (holy spirit), teaches us internally to love His son as His Own. Simple. Render to the king what is his, taxes, honour, etc., but spiritual authority placed on unworthy persons is eternal suicide. LORD JESUS CHRIST KATHA (part 4) The only clarity of my life exists in the hearing and chanting of Harinama, thus rekindling rememberance of the lila-guna rupa namnam of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Continuance of a program, founded by Srila Prabhupada, to further his mission of spreading this hearing and chanting of Harinama to the mass of suffering people bound by forgetfulness, asleep in the lap of the witch called Maya, as the great song goes. What is pleasing to Srila Prabhupada is that we adopt this process as our life and soul, our reason for existance. Did Srila Prabhupada request us to change our religion? He did not, for the Holy Names of God, when uttered aloud to musical accompanyment or softly whispered in meditation, only serves to perfect one's religion. From my view, and I am definitely not criticizing any devotee of Krsna, a change from Christianity to ISKCONism, or from Judahism to another Vaisnava philosophically draped ecclesiastical system is not warranted, nor attractive, to one who relishes the purport and example set by Sri Gurudeva. Harinama, Harinama, Harinama, eva kevelam........ ISKCON has great facility to train up disciples to send on the streets and in the homes of the poor sleepers, to give them, on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, the gifts he has kindly given us. If those who maintain the temples are dedicated to this, I have no quarrel with them, but to those who want to have their positions fortified by the utilization of resources of such a facility, such resources are misspent, greatly displeasing to Srila Prabhupada. I read quotations all the time, who said what, when, why, but this cannot displace what Srila Prabhupada has imparted unto me, that is, even if all fall down, his disciple must stand, even if alone. I judge with my feet, as he kindly ordered me. My last contact with ISKCON was ten years ago, the day the Amerikans slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in retreat, supposedly protected by Geneva Rules of Engagement. I visited a crumbling Vancouver facility, on a Sunday morning, with my family. No greeting, no prasadam, I had to hunt for a devotee to sell me a book, no friendliness. But I was not disturbed, because, as I saw Tulasi Devi thriving in a carefully protected small area reserved for Her, I knew that a Vaisnava disciple of my Guru Maharaja lived there, therefore, I do NOT criticize those living in the shelter established by my Guru Maharaja. But what can be said of the conditions of the temples left by Srila Prabhupada, did he leave no funds? Did he leave us helpless, without FOUNDATION? No he did not. He left the management to those who would usurp and squander on the guru game, and their offenses had the effect of embarassing all the true Vaisnavas of the world. This is not his loss of control, this has all been His Divine Grace, ripping away all the glitter from our eyes so we may see the truth, that is, Harinama, Harinama, Harinama, eva kevelam......... Srila Prabhupada is much more than the buildings he left, he is Jagat Guru, leader of David and Solomon followers, leader of the true followers of the Christ Jesus, as His Samkirtana leader, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, did before him, he uses Qoran to defeat the Kazi. Non-denominational, giving up all varieties of religion, he asks us to surrender to Sri Krsna by the process of Harinama Samkirtana. The fighting spirit between the devotees may go on forever, just see the combatants on the plain of Kuruksetra, all devotees, yet no deal, no cooperation. But can we afford it? I have recently been appreciating my Christian heritage, albeit originally devoid of any knowledge of bhakti, for the Bhagavad Gita As It Is was omitted from the concordex, now there is so much understanding. Bear with me while I try to continue. Srila Prabhupada took on Lord Buddha, defeating all His "No self theories", destroyed the nirvisesavada philosophy of Lord Siva in his Shankaracarya incarnation, yet there is no indication at all of Srila Prabhupada not wholeheartedly accepting the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ, his only displeasure is that the Christians do not FOLLOW Him. The reason for this is that Lord Jesus Christ's mission is not unlike that of Srila Prabhupada, to engage the sleeping souls in the practice of bhakti, hearing and singing the Names of the Supreme Being. This could be a test question for all the haughty so-called Vaisnavas who vilify the position of Lord Jesus Christ, either overtly or with subtlety. Q.) Describe the purport of the following prayer, "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed be thou amongst women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death." A.) True rasa is demonstrated, as the Avatara descends at will, bringing His associates with Him as He pleases. Srimati Mary, by the strength of Her devotional service, has been granted the service to act as His Mother. Being nitya-siddha, Srimati Mary was not held accountable for any sour reaction from sinful activity, for she had none. She was, indeed, Immaculate, thus, from Her very conception in this world, a pure devotee of the Lord, in the rasa of parenthood. The second part of this prayer is the example for all the world on the method of approaching the Lord, referred in other Shastra as "dasa, dasa, anudasa". One must seek out the servant of the servant of the Lord, begging for intercession, begging to somehow be engaged in this dasa, dasa, anudasa process. Such engagement will be so beneficial to the living being that he need not be so concerned by his mentality during the turmoil of the death experiance, for the relationship will be set in ones heart, the yoking (yoga) forever unbroken, so much so, that Srimati Mary, Lord Jesus Christ, and He Who Sent Them, will be thinking of them. No artificial behavior involved. This prayer is an example of prema bhakti. Anyway, I had to share these thoughts, but I did not just want to throw them around, because I am sure that many would scoff, asking for "vedic" proof of what I say, questioning the Divinity of the Christ. (Without the philosophy of acintya bheda bheda tattwa, there is NO understanding of any shastra.) His divinity is clear in his purpose, for his will and the will of Sri Govinda are the same, thus the term AVATAR is quite appropriate. Tough, here in the outback, but simple does not always translate to easy. Falldowns are always surrounding us, yet there is no artificial way to avoid the problems presented by the mind, others, and natural events, regardless of how one is temporarily situated. The challenge is what it is all about. It is like, "Today, I am going to dive deeper into my relationship with the one who loves me more than I can ever repay." For the initiated, this is an oath, a promise to honor (reciprocate) commitment, we promise to abide by Sri Vaisnava's instructions. This promise burns in the heart of the disciple, so much so, that even though falldowns are daily occurances, even hourly, the effect of the problem is that sincere desire for atonement outweighs the evil effects. Not the artificial confessional some movements create, not the willful Vaisnava aparadha of committing sinful acts thinking that forgiveness for such action is autoimatically guaranteed, but actual humility, disciple firmly becoming the dust on the street, underneath the straw. This taste, this understanding of our precarious position on the lap of Maya, is a rasa unto itself, aghast and dread. How do we fix it, no matter if in the center of population with peers present or in the outback, in isolation, imprisoned, exiled, avadhuta, To follow the process of Harinama Haribol. If you gamble or mentally speculate (surrender to the thoughts produced by the mind), you lose the quality of truthfulness. If you eat forbidden, unclean foodstuffs, you cannot live simply and austerity is not even seen as a desireable thing to possess. If you intoxicate yourself, you cannot forgive, you have no mercy, you cannot say the Lord's prayer without changing the part about asking God to forgive you as you forgive tresspasses against you. If you are indiscriminate in sensual relationships, there cannot be any cleanliness in your life, even if you can avoid std's. The restrictions presented by Srila Prabhupada are scientific, to follow means to strengthen one's spiritual position by naturally becoming clean, austere, truthful, and merciful to others. Simple, but not easy. The gift is the Holy Names of Sri Govinda, especially Sri Hrsikesa. When He hears This Name, He specifically takes charge of one's desire to attempt compliance with the prescription given by the good Physician, Sri Gurudeva, and He cuts the habits, He makes them more profoundly bitter, increases the understanding of the sincere disciple, of the necessity of strengthening these four pillars of the mansion He has designed for us. Every day is a challenge, today, alone, but not noticibly greater that when cloistered in temple life years ago. There is mental compliance that may be valueless, that is, attraction by anger. Some may become upset that others are not in complete compliance. They hate the restrictions, and they envy the blooper who smokes dope, only because they want to smoke dope, but cannot due to their overbearing religious ritual. What good are these empty cups? Srila Prabhupada never taught voidism, false renunciation, jada yoga, or any other "empty cup" philosophies. He empties the storehouse of prema-bhakti in service to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and distributes It's contents, to us, to fill our cups, and as we taste more and more, and want more and more, the poison in our cups is diluted, purified, and gradually brought to the position that only the bhakti remains, so much so, that we MUST distribute in his service ourselves. This is his truth, "Oh my Lord, Your Holy Name, ALONE, renders all benediction upon the living beings. Therefore You have Hundred and Millions of Names, like Sri Govinda, Sri Gopala. Unfortunate am I, for I have no attraction." Respect is shown when a writer re-reads his material to check for errors. It is not just a writing, the consciousness should be that of making a preparation of prasadam for the Lord and His associates, not just throwing lunch together for our own tongue's devourment. As far as content goes, I, too, at times, struggle through it all. But have not devotees been told to shut up for too long? Srila Prabhupada never said that we must prop up an artificial religion based on Varna-asrama Dharma, he requested that we try to cooperate with each other. Long ago, long before internet, I decided that a certain society was not my cup of nectar, I was not anxious to experiance such. Controlled my ears with my feet, but where did that leave me? Alone. At home in the body and away from the Lord. Yet Lord Jesus Christ says, no matter, serve the Lord. At work, with family and friends. The Holy Names Alone render all benediction among the living beings, we must become more attracted. If dirty laundry appears on this page, one who follows in the footsteps of the Vaisnava Acarya will humbly clean and purify, for that is his mission.

From my website, I write the following concerning this prayer: An excerpt from Lord Jesus Christ Katha " This could be a test question for all the haughty so-called Vaisnavas who vilify the position of Lord Jesus Christ, either overtly or with subtlety. Q.) Describe the purport of the following prayer, "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed be thou amongst women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death." A.) True rasa is demonstrated, as the Avatara descends at will, bringing His associates with Him as He pleases. Srimati Mary, by the strength of Her devotional service, has been granted the service to act as His Mother. Being nitya-siddha, Srimati Mary was not held accountable for any sour reaction from sinful activity, for she had none. She was, indeed, Immaculate, thus, from Her very conception in this world, a pure devotee of the Lord, in the rasa of parenthood. The second part of this prayer is the example for all the world on the method of approaching the Lord, referred in other Shastra as "dasa, dasa, anudasa". One must seek out the servant of the servant of the Lord, begging for intercession, begging to somehow be engaged in this dasa, dasa, anudasa process. Such engagement will be so beneficial to the living being that he need not be so concerned by his mentality during the turmoil of the death experiance, for the relationship will be set in ones heart, the yoking (yoga) forever unbroken, so much so, that Srimati Mary, Lord Jesus Christ, and He Who Sent Them, will be thinking of them. No artificial behavior involved. This prayer is an example of prema bhakti." Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

Haribol. The new system does not change the rosary, but adds 5 new "rounds only. Previously, those who follow Mother Mary chanted 15 rounds daily, five dedicated to the glory of Mary, five dedicated to the glory of Jesus, and five dedicated to the tribulation of Jesus. The new five are dedicated to the spiritual potency of Lord Jesus Christ. An interestiong sidenote for vaisnavas, a rosary can be nicely used as japa beads in an emergency. Here's how: Disregard the cross and the beads outside the ring. The connecting medal can be used as the Krsna bead, where one offers obiesancies to the devotees and Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to protect one from offences while chanting. This leaves five sets of ten "hail mary" beads and four "lords prayer" beads, a total of fifty four. Go around the loop twice and there are 108 "gopi" beads. Wonderful coincidence, dontcha think? Personally, the hail mary is a great praise of a topmost vaisnava, and the lords prayer is an initiation into spiritual life by lord jesus christ. Say the words with an open mind, without polluting the self with sectarianism, and presto! Spiritual benefit. Just opinion. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

Haribol, glad we seem to have gotton over a hump. I fully underestand your comment about "honing your skills". This, too, is another reason Im sort of a forum junkie. The whole idea of temple life back in the good ol days was one of istagosthi. These largely informal philosophical meetings of those who were not newbies and rather committed to the studies was a great opportunity to practice preaching techniques on each other. If, during these gatherings, we make errors, big or small, to stand corrected was a great joy, and a great learning tool. I have used not just my own skills on the outside (of these forum temple walls), but have also applied some of the great things I have learned from the likes of Jagat, Jahnava Nitai, and others I consider much greater authorities than myself. While I may possess skills to get a certain point across to my Christian friends, but without certification from the Vaisnava community that I receive on these here channels, and the humble corrections I have received over the years, then my preachging in the real world would be somewhat limited. Personally, Id like to thank you for starting this topic, and hope others will see it as an opportunity to not only express their frustrations with "forum temple life", but also try to note how advantageous such a thing like the internet can be if used properly. Sadhana bhakti is a system of "practice" in order for the more natural spontaneousness fully manifests itself within the heart. And, we must admit we get plenty of practice here. Stonehearted, my ol friend from the isle of big, notes that he is involved with much paperwork and cannot do the forums now and then because of other commitments. I, too, as Jagat and otgher ol friends from the net forums, am engulfed with legal issues stemming from my involvemnet with the US dept of Defence. I have briefs to file, judges to answer to, all within rigid time frames, and dealing with military lawyers is a real experiance, their utter incompetence mixed with a complete mastery of "spin" (called word jugglery by Srila Prabhupada). So, if during the course of working very hard on line, I take a break to speak with folks who actually know where Im coming from despite our differences on minor issues, I love and very much need the Vaisnava forums, especially free speech ones like this one and the ol dharma mela (which should be opening up in the future, I am told.) Hare Krsna, I have a date with a nice admin judge that may see thiongs my way if I can counter the subterfuge presented by the same folks who call a trident missile with 24 nuclear bomb warheads aimed at friends as well as perceived enemies a "peacemaker". Hare Krsna, do as Yasoda says, stay. ys, mahaksadasa

Haribol, ethos. I dont usually react to anything on these forums. I use them as a way of associating with devotees. My comments here were not meant to criticize your writing efforts, some of which I may find enlightening, some closed minded, some ridiculous, which describes all forum writers (including myself) with very few exceptions. Forums are considered by myself to be like temples after all the guests go home after a sunday feast. While we clean up the mess, we may talk philosophy, we may joke around, we may discuss political conspiracy theories. Sometimes in these informal dealings between "friends", there may be disagreement, even arguement, but the bottom line is that we dont go to sleep without offering each other heartfelt obiesancies, which is what I do to you now. I have no problems with any devotees, be they rtviks, GBC followers, GM guru disciples, or independent disciples of disciples of Srila Prabhupada. I enjoy all perspectives they may present to these forums because it serves as a guage to show the Glories of the Supreme Lord. I dont congratulate nonsense nor do I patronize self-serving hypocracy, but I do enjoy honest perspective. Another bottom line, we all have three classes of vaisnavas we deal with (as I have been taught), the less advanced, we try to instruct up to the levels of our own advancement, our peers who we maintain friendship and cooperation with, and those who are more advanced, whom we hear from and serve (at least mentally) with rapt attention. We do judge, this is our responsibility, but we do not cast others to hell, which is not our responsibility. Anyway, I personally limit my time on these forums (because there are lots of other things to do). I certainly do not read all topics, nor writings on a particular topic, only ones that I may have enough interest in, know the authors, etc. I certainly do not use the forums to garner cheap fame for myself, because I have already become famous, as much as I can handle. Its just a break from all this damn fame I am suffering that I type indiadivine on my keyboard. Fame is strangling me, and will soon kill me, so this is not my bag. Anyway, you seem to shoot from the hip on the issues, like Hrydayananda, who I met once and we certainly grated each other, but Im not famous to him either. Hey, Im not even the "real" mahaksadasa, who clarified his position on an old Chakra.org article. I do miss the folks who no longer seem to use various forums, like Precatan dd, bahudak, chrisL, et al, I even miss bb. But these folks just left, others have died, like damodara, and all this means to me is less association for my wicked soul, which is my misfortune. So, if I draw you out of premature retirement, I guess this is self-serving in itself. I hope to get into great arguements with you for many years, not the measly few we have had so far. Anyway, you be good, eh, and hare krsna, ys in cooperation, mahaksadasa

Ive been on forums for five years, and have seen many go by announcing their departure, only to return again. One or two announced their retirements in a very nice manner, and I will always remember how nice they were. Others go by leaving mines on the trail. I have made such announcements, but I still write, and I returned. On some forums, I just quit because of what I perceived to be offensive. It is my conclusion that announcements like this are quickly read, as well as follow-up comments, by the announcer. Kinda like slammin the door for an impact. No, sir, it is not everyone else that fails here. Finding fault or minimizing others is inability of seeing the self as the greatest roadblock. Goodbye, you wont be missed, for we are all imaginary friends here in cyber world. haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

Haribol, theist and gaurachandra, hope youse guys are well. This info is very nice, and in my research, I have also noted that Didyamous Thomas is also an older stepbrother of Lord Jesus Christ. Joseph had sons prior to marrying Mary, and his first wife passed away. I have also heard that Joseph and Mary had children after the appearance of Lord Jesus Christ. Thomas was an architect, taught the science of building by Joseph, who, despite the pictures of him sitting and whittling on a chair, was a much more heralded carpenter than that. In fact, he was kind of a master craftsman and contractor whose buildings were everywhere in Judea, and even as far away as Rome. By the way, I wrote a story that includes thomas and james, and can be seen at http://geocities.com/mahaksadasa/dd.html Anyway, this stuff is sure interesting, hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

Haribol, audaryaites. First we remind all the vaisnava contributors of this forum (reading and writing = hearing and chanting) of the story of little Dhruva, the boy who was jilted from his rightful kingdom. Five-year-old anger caused determination that virtually surpassed the power of the demigods, so much so, that Lord Krsna appeared to him, even though a spiritual quest was not at all intended. The final gist of this wonderful account from Srimad Bhagavatam is that even neophyte devotees (those who are not wise yet, only expressing the other three reasons for seeking higher truth (i.e. inquisitive, miserable, and poverty stricken)) can have visions of the supreme Lord and His associates even though the prerequisite is yet unfulfilled. In the case of lil Dhruva, Lord Krsna granted spiritual vision as an impetus to continue, and this is very common in the beginning stages of a spiritual quest. In fact, the beginning of Bhakti is sometimes better than later stages, because offenses are not evident due to the immaturity of the seeker. So, even though the first stage is called the offensive stage, prior to this beginning, there is a certain purity that makes seasoned practitioners of the yoga system struck with wonder. I have seen this in children often when first exposed to the chanting fun. I see it in my two-year old as she makes considerable effort to go do "keeshna", the expressions of pure joy on her face while looking at the pictures in the Krsna Book. Hardened devotees feel none of this, even entering into the advanced "clearing" stage. The excitement is gone as the routine is somewhat a mechanical "chore" and so many other things are higher placed on the ol priority list. So, I take a time trip to '68, and the hash oil was fully surrounding me, and the pamphlet titled "Answers by Citing the Lord's Version" is on the coffee table. Lord Varaha is on the cover, engaged in battle with the great earth sucker, Hiranyaksa. No words were read, but the divinity of the Boar Incarnation was clearly displayed. The two-dimensional picture became a movie of the battle, and I was in a cold sweat. My thought after the experiance was that the hash oil was produced by the mafia, a little strichnine, a little acid, maybe a drop or two of smack, because my fave hash oil made me stoned, not hallucinating. So, the party was over, the cup of coffee drunk after a restful sleep, and in sobriety, I picked up that book again. Dang if the movie didnt start all over again. Srila Prabhupada captured me with his first American edition of His masterpiece Srimad Bhagavatam. Years later, after joining up with a really wonderful group of devotees, a representative disciple of Srila Prabhupada was leading a wild kirtana, and I was staring in meditation at the forms of Krsna and Arjuna on the great battlefield (the cover of Bhagavad Gita As It Is). Guess what? dang movie again, arrows flying, blood bath of ecstacy. No herbs, no caffein, not even any trace of nicotine, no brewskis. Was this a spiritual experiance or just mundane imagination? Well, in retrospect, I say it was my imagination, but guess what? It is also a spiritual experiance of the highest degree, because Krsna and Arjuna, Like Lord Varaha before, kindly appeared in my imagination as impetus to continue. The cessation of the "movie" was as shocking as the disappearance of the Lord from lil Dhruva's vision. Separation became a concrete idea of this bhakti yoga, that to see His form and then to have it yanked away is the driving force that cannot be taken away under any circumstance. Never told this story for fear of being called a charletan or sahajiya, but now Im old and dont care what Im called unless its late for prasadam. So, allah yall are invited to tell yer weird stories of How Krsna displayed His very Form as an impetus to continue despite discouragement from the university of hard knocks of the loss of purity from the day ye were first affected. After all, imagination in the service of Sri Krsna is the essence of spiritual experiance. Hare Krsna, ys , mahaksadasa

I thought you were asking for heart to heart realizations about religious tolerance, but it appears that you want a pissing contest. So ask your questions to the wall, or the mirror. As far as AUTHORITY goes, this authority is present in everyone's heart, but the other pollution and elitism gets in the way, which is the job of delusion. Haribol, and goodbye, ys, mahaksadasa

Haribol, sorry for butting in, but authority is a rather personal thing. If one is directed within thru the catholic idealogy, if they act in unison with the lord within, no problem. Similarly, through other methodology, the same result (perfection) may take place. There are various stages of perfection, and the sane do not place "higher" or "lower" tags on such self realization. If santa rasa (peacefulness and self satisfaction without necessarily even seeing the supreme being) is the result of spiritual quest, this is fine. The rasas that recognize the personality of Godhead, as servitor, friend, parent, or beloved, these give the being a purpose, and the various philosophies that emphasize personal relationship with god all give such a purpose. I never consider "religion" myself. If Lord Jesus Christ inspires me to be his brother in service to our common Father, this is great. If the Vaisnava Acarya gives a process that directs me toward remembering an actual relationship with God, then I am inclined toward such. I am not a gopi-elitist, as to be on a battlefield in full war garb with Krsna (on either side) is just as attractive. Some may contend that rasas are superior and inferior, this difference is not a consideration because it does not jive with info from the heart that I am receiving. So, individual discernment is the way I personally see as the very difference between vaisnavism and impersonalism that is basically self centered. I have a craving to serve another, and I have wasted many lives serving conditioned souls on the same sinking ship I am on. So, as service to another is inherant, no attraction is there for self serving systems of yoga practice, propping up of mundane religions, health issues, etc. My job is to look for a QUALIFIED receptacle of such service as to not waste too many more lives. How I serve is not my decision, as service means response to desire of the one being served, not presumptiousness on how the service be applied. Heck, to be a rock kicked during samkirtana is a wonderful position, especially if the devotee gets a kick out of it. As fasr as all other points being made, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, it is sail, welcomes all religious impulse in man, so liberalism and tolerance must be there as well. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

Haribol. I have considered the rtvik position for five years, and am still unconvinced. While I accept that 50% responsibility rests on the hearer of proposals, the other half is the responsibility of the speaker, whose convictions and ability to convince others comes to play. None of the Srila Prabhupada citations from his books or gleaned from what I call polluted (i.e. fragmented, edited, suppressed, etc.) documentation has convinced this VC member that rtvikism is authorized outside the purview of ISKCON and the GBC. July 9 is a clear directive if not a forgery, but the conspiracy of misrepresentation did not release the document for many years following the production. July 9 does not address the possible complete meltdown of the GBC and what a responsible disciple should do in such a case. Srila Prabhupada always directs His disciples to act responsibly. In my case (which may not apply to everyone), He clearly stated that ISKCON "may very well go to hell", but a responsible disciple has the duty to "not follow them there". This indicates that DISCERNMENT is very much built into His teachings, both individually and collectively. Individual discernment is what sets the Vaisnava apart from impersonal dry mayavada philosophies. July 9 is not a call for rebellion, it demands the rank and file of ISKCON to act in accordance with directives from the eleven rtviks appointed, and subsequent documents dictate a process wherein the GBC, through democratic process, removes or adds rtvik initiators. In my opinion, the GBC and ISKCON is acting in accordance with His wishes of July 9 in that the democratic process is continuing, and the gurus have all been authorized by the Governing Body Commissioners. Latter day movements defy the GBC, defy the democratic process that the GBC was directed to continue. The 100 or so "gurus" of ISKCON act with the authority of July 9. When it comes down to a fundamental responsibility of disciple to hear from "authority", rtvik idealism requires acceptance of other sources than Srila Prabhupada. Not only are we required to accept July 9, wills, and other documents that were suppressed for years without anyone's knowledge except a choice few, we are required to accept documents such as "The Final Order" written by Sriman Krsna Kant das, a contemporary disciple. Krsna Kant is given authority over our spiritual lives. The external positioning of this devotee as our peer and contemporary is the same as our external positioning with Srila Prabhupada disciple leaders of other schools (i.e. the honorables Siddhaswarupananda, Tripurari, Paramadvaita, as well as others of much less credential or honor deserved). So, our requirement as disciple of Srila Prabhupada is no different now as it was during His physical appearance. We must scrutinize all who we hear from and put it to the litmus of guru-shastra-sadhu criteria. If TFO is accepted as authoritive, this is fine with me, as long as the "believers" understand that such a writing accepted as bonafide simultaneously elevates the author as bonafide authority, infallible. The fact that quotes by Srila Prabhupada are inserted into a thesis does not magically make such a writing "authoritive". If that be the case, we can package these writings of all vaisnava forums and discussion boards as tickets back to Godhead. Quotes do not make or break any points trying to be made by a writer, the overall result of such a writing is what must pass the guru-shastra-sadhu criteria. If someone speaks above the level of their actual realization, such words are never considered infallible by the sane. However, one who avoids such pretence is an actual link to Parampara regardless of the consensus of others, as was the case of our own Guru Maharaja. He always speaks and writes from an infallible position of realized TRUTH. You see, this is why Srila Prabhupada showed serious displeasure for even the slightest tampering with His publications. Even the typeset, even the placement of the title "Founder Acarya" on the jacket of His books was meticulously planned by one who is not prone to error (and changed by those who thought they knew better.) Speaking of the "Founder Acarya" title, this is sufficient to elevate Srila Prabhupada above all successors. Such a title was created by Srila Prabhupada Himself, and is free from mistakes. He does not demand deification, and "Founder Acarya" is perpetual in itself. Other acaryas ordered by Srila Prabhupada in the future do not detract from such a title, nothing can be added to or deleted from the "founder acarya" position, even inside the purview of the ISKCON authority. Our duties as disciples and followers of Srila Prabhupada is to be the object of the sentence, to complete the thought, so to speak. "Founder Acarya" of what? We are, individually and collectively, the what. ISKCON is a branch of the Tree Of Spiritual Life, and such a branch may have many sub-branches, thus indicating health and connection to the Root of Krsnaloka. The sub-branches must philosophically support the connective main branch. This support is TO HIS UNTAMPERED WITH BOOKS. His masterpiece purports and translations are where the pure and real ISKCON is located, and anyone who cares to dive into the nectar of such revealed truth is pleasing, accepted, and fully protected by the Founder Acarya, for he has found us, His mission fully successful without debate or dialog about limitations of such success needing something else. Rtvik Fundamentalism may well be a sub-branch of ISKCON, but dynamic prasadam (Harinam, books, foodstuffs, actual devotee association with the newcomer, etc.) distribution according to time and place is there as well. Change is seemingly authorized by J9 and other rtvik- favored documentation, and this places Srila Prabhupada outside the catagory of strict fundamentalism. The choice is always ours. Someone asks for permission to carry out what they perceive as rtvik orders. Permission granted with well wishes, make your centers wonderful places where prasadam distribution takes place. But documents that place GBC as the governors of the rank and file lives of devotees must not be defied by membership, especially if democratic process installed with GBC is not adhered to. Rtvik societies must operate outside the sanction of ISKCON and the GBC, and must be independent, just as schools led by our peers who have taken diksa disciples of their own. Only the GBC can create a rtvik system that complies with directives that are presented to maintain such a system. Any defiance contraverts the greater directive from Srila Prabhupada that we cooperate effectively to spread this Krsna Consciousness Movement. The order to cooperate is the greatest axiomatic truth that we can possibly have, and tampering with this final order constitutes apostacy in itself. Rebellion is never conducive to cooperative efforts. In closing, I state that my views are offered as independent observer. I have no affiliations with GBC, ISKCON, independent schools of Gaudiya Math or our own advanced godbrothers (or sisters) who are trying to spread this movement in any way possible. I have no affiliation with any reform movement and consider the very term "reform" as a term that means that it (ISKCON) was done improperly to begin with. I have carefully studied the issues at hand and give this report as an unbiased member of this council. Any TRUTH gleaned from my writings are only because of Srila Prabhupada and his bonafide disciples, the flaws are my possession only. As with the defunct IVC (Independent Vaisnava Commission, dealing with the poison issue) which I joined as outside observer as well, I fully believe that such outside observances are a valuable tool in getting anywhere. Counter proposals by opponants and cheerleading by proponants may have their place in such councils, but the observations from those who have no bones to pick, no sides to support, no groups to destroy, must be seen as valuable. My contributions are always as everyone's well-wisher, and I humbly offer my continuing obiesancies to my friends here on this forum. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

Haribol, leyh, I do these forms all the time. On race, I write "None", on religion, I write "relationship with the Supreme Lord". One, on a serious security govt form, I wrote, "No thank you", and have often wrote "human" on the race line. aint forms fun, haribol, ys, mahak

Haribol, theist, a little explanation of my position is warranted here, so ill do it in the context of your post (a style I usually avoid). You write:"mahak, I can appreciate the humble position that you advocate.However when an institution certifies a guru as a bonafide link to God, and directs new bhaktas to place their faith in that person,I believe there follows a certain amount of responsibity." mahak: I agree that responsibility for one posing as guru is there, as is responsibility sholdered by institutional leaders giving out bad info, but I advocate that the bhakta who is led to a cheater is one who is searching for a cheap way, so the wonder of guru tattwa leads such candidates to less than what they say they want. In other words, not only is ISKCON and the various folks acting as gurus even they know they are not, the poor bhakta is also responsible. No one is innocent here. You continue, "I believe the problem originates from the idea that the institution has a say in the guru-disciple relationship in the first place.Why not just leave it up to Supersoul and let things develop naturally." mahak: No one interferes with the process of guru tattwa. It is purely supernatural communication between the self and the Superself. Things are, in fact, developing naturally. Krsna gives memory of swarup, but the same Krsna causes the forgetfulness of the self that makes folks depend on intermediary foundations and organizations and appointed gurus and the like to take charge of something very personal and proprietary. Folks should get out of the way, but it is the responsibility of the candidate for bhakti to step up to the plate and send these interferances packing. you conclude: "No one here has advocated kicking on Vipramukya das.He is also a victim of this mistaken idea of ecclesiastical guruship." mahak: I must say that it has been a little compassionate here, which shows a certain maturity gained by the writers here. Desires are fulfilled if sincerity is adequate. If someone wants to sit in a chair of spiritual authority over another, and this scenario actually happens, it has been granted. But if this is not wanted later, then the desire was not so good, dontcha think? There is no eccliastic guru over anyone who has not desired to be a wonderful eccliastic disciple. Always a two-way street, just as marriage. Anyway, haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

Haribol, stony, jagat and others. Personally, I never have had a problem with "fallen" contemporaries. I have a few that I can never disrespect no matter what. WHY? Easy. I was taught that this science is beyond time and place. I was taught that a vaisnava of character in our line daily offers puja to a prostitute, noting her position in regard to his spiritual growth. So, with these things that I have been taught, I can see all the devotees we all tend to hate in more favorable times and places where only admiration is there. And I can offer, even to a present day rascal, a certain puja in recognition of their roles in any spiritual developement that I may have attained. as far as up and down action with the pictures, this is no consequence, for if one prays "Jaya Gaura Bhaktivrnda", ya went and respected all your peers anyway by saying such a thing. Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

Fact is, after we experiance death, only Krsna remembers who we were. Arjuna does not remember his role as Nara, and Ramananda Raya has no knowledge of his position as both. So, Its not lennons fault that he cant remember, hell even reagan cant do that, and he aint even dead yet. Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa ps, I dont worship lennon, and most of his songs were bad, but a few were the best ever.

Personally, I congratulate the honesty of the "letter", but agree that more is deserved by his disciples. How can a disciple assist a guru if the guru is not available? A funny sidenote, on another site, many forum members, none of which are "in" ISKCON, kept saying the word "bloop" in regard to the swami, (who is not fallen, just realistic in regard to his consciousness, which is titled "self realization"). So, I guess a lot of so-called reformers cant get away from that ol' eccliastic approach of hypocracy, defined by King Yudhisthira as "the policy of creating religious principles for others to follow." I wish the fellow well, and remind all devotees that one cannot ruin a stockpile of spiritual attributes attained from the practice of bhakti yoga, especially for something like taking on a wife or maybe burning a refer or sucking down a beer. haribol, ys, mahaksadasa ps, haribol jagat, hope you are well, ys, mahak

Mercy Ship c.1993, mahaksadasa You came into my life from oh so far, Riding through my mind in Subhadra's car, Without a single purpose but to save the world. Your Song has mor power than all the missles they have hurled. All the holy men came to show the way. Many people listened to what they had to say. Some of them insane, some just went to other things, Not knowing the difference between soldiers and Kings. They wanted to steal my mind, take away my land, A trade for a philosophy no one can understand. They prey on people' greed, take advantage of their fear. They say anything the people want to hear. Tricks, treachery, cheap words, and smiling nods, Are needed to convince the ignorant they are gods. Crime, poverty, death, gods exposed as fools, Tossed around like ants into giant whirlpools. But You did not come to advertize Your name. You had no pressing needs to strive for selfish fame. You have what you are given, and to me You bring, Matchless Gifts, if I would only dance and sing. You have gone back to Vrndavana, left me all alone, On these streets of Armageddon, weary to the bone. Yet You leave Your loving Lifeline, waiting for my grip. Through these dreadful waters, You guide the Mercy Ship.

Speak for thyself, guru

This is why I called the site a fraud. Not to offend, but you asked me to join, here, and on another (basically) rtvik site that I helped start. So I did, and I posted on the "closed minded" site specifically because I am opposed to the rtvik idealism. The post was not copied by myself, and the website owner did not like the idea of dialog on the subject of rtvikism. I have discussed this idea with many rtviks over the years, and they mostly respect my opinions, respect my demeanor, but mostly, respect my friendship despite the differences of opinion. I have chastized publicly the perpetrators of ill-humored rtvik jokes. I have defended rtvik rights to present their case. But this is a site for closed minded fanatics, and the vibe is basically very puffed up, as some of the comments here indicate, (i.e. the nine month statement.) So, in the last nine months, you have conquered all illusion and now give the truth? So you are declariung yourself to be the vehicle of absolute truth? So my question is as follows: Why dont you follow in the footsteps of Srila Prabhupada, and take compassion on the sleeping souls by giving them access to Parampara? Why dont you initiate them, as you clearly state here that you have possessed the absolute truth for nine months now. Nuff said. If the moderator wishes to delete this entire business, I agree. Loveology should just be on the websites of interest thread, and taken off the discussion board for good, because no discussion is taking place. No discussion will take place on loveology, either, because anyone who doesnt surrender to the webmaster will be blown off the air. Aloha pumehana, and I hele on. haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

Haribol, I defy the loveology owner to print the article that I posted under your closed minded section, and defeat the article, show the offense, or show the reason that it has been erased and deleted. What a bunch of lightweight frauds you are, you are a disgrace to even the rtviks, yet you have the nerve to call ones who pose a dialog closed minded. If you do not answer here asap, I will actively preach against your site everywhere, because you are dangerous. ye, mahaksadasa

Haribol, stony. Some folks will never understand what a difficult thing it was way back in 74. But you and I and a few others had to swallow a lot of false pride when we returned to the fold, leaving the concerns of the advanced devotees aside in favor of following the program. But after the second ousting and the sending of us into exile from our fathers house, maybe we do get a little closed minded when someone tries to convince us again in our fathers name. I am no enemy of rtvikvadis, and have actually come out on the net in favor of their idea to establish a church in Prabhupada's name, even give folks names officially in Harinam initiation, and teach all the incomers well as well as we have been taught. But get the heck out of the way and do not interfere with guru tattwa, which is beyond the realm of the bleacher bums. I guess I riled them the most when I picked a particular devotee from NYC who was doing rtvik initiations, and asked why he was so fearful of accepting a little responsibility for the folks he brings in. I live in hell for failing my disciples (we all have em, do we not?), but I did not mislead them into thinking they have fulfilled their obligation per NOD in regard to accepting a spiritual master, and receiving initiation from him, hearing from him, asking pertenent questions from him, and serving him with rapt attention (NOTE: MY masculine gender use in my writing here is not discriminatory, just limited use of language, as disciples of guru, are also guru if they follow guru, meaning female disciples are also guru). Anyhoo, hope your volcaNO IS NICE TO YOU, i LIVED UNDER THE SMOKE IN oPIHIKAU, AND LOVED EVERY MINUTE. Hare Krsna, ys, mahak PS, did you go to brazil way back when, after gary came back? just curious.