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Posts posted by Tantrayoga




    There are lots of stories in the Bhagwatam. Its a good scripture for those wanting to advance in Vaishnava Bhakti lineage and know about the pastimes by reading about them. Yes Hari nam is a way for Kaliyuga and Vishwambhar Mishra propagated it well as Chaitanya. I'm all respects for that. But nevertheless, Chaitanya doesn't declare his being Krsna as did Krsna. All these scriptural quotations and their interpretations point to Chaitanya only as Krsna avatara is again debatable. I won't be surprised if Prabhupada is made as an incarnation of kind in the next 20 years or so. I don't mean any offenses though. But in this age of quarrel and hypocrisy ... The Gaudiyas hve problem with Iskcon, Iskcon with Gaudiyas, with Ritviks and others... and all claim to be following Shri Chaitanya. All are ready to fight in the name of Chaitanya, Prabhupada, Govind Maharaj or Narayan 'Maharaj'... The bottom line is follow Chaitanya... follow bhakti yoga, devotion to Krsna, but why bash others? Chaitanya said to be servant of the servant of the servant.... . That was real humble. Now we have people fighting in the name of Chaitanya. Regards. Jai Shri Krishna.


    To my knowledge, Bhagavan Sri Rama hardly allowed Himself to be worshipped during the 11,000 years he was present on earth during Treta-yuga of the 24th divya-yuga. Check out both the Valmiki Ramayana and Ramacharitamanasa if you feel inclined to do so.



    The beauty of Hinduism is that all the avataras were recognized and worshipped during their lifetime. Please read about Lord Rama's return to Ayodhya and his worship. Please also read about Bharat keeping Lord Rama's charan Paduka on the Raj Simhasana and worshipping it, running the Kingdom in Ram's name. Krishna was worshipped too. But as it happens Not all can recognize the Lord during his avataran period. Arjuna couldn't until he was convinced after darshan of Lord's virat roop.


    Pranam Tantrayoga,


    I am an (uninitiated) follower of traditional Gaudiya Vaishnava Vedanta. The Gaudiya understanding is that Lord Shiva DOES annihilate the material cosmos at the time of pralaya, not Indra, and yes, Mahadeva is a manifestation of God, though we consider Krishna to be Bhagavan in His most complete, charming and perfect svarupa. Shiva is also not tainted by tamo-guna, though one of His functions is that He is in charge of the mode of ignorance, whilst being untouched by it. Of course, my school of thought differs theologically and philosophically from yours, and quite radically, but you seem to have a rather warped view of Chaitanya Vaishnavism, if I may say so. Of course, you cannot be blamed for this, since most Gaudiyas with whom you have conferred seem to be of the intransigeant, fanatical type. A true average follower of Sriman Mahaprabhu doesn't fight with others over doctrinal issues, but rather is too busy exploring the vastness of his own sampradaya to have any time for such things.


    Pranam Bhagwat lover!


    I'm glad to know your perspective! Ironically I do find differences in bhava and tatva of what Shri Chaitanya said and what I hear from the preaching lot. I offer my obeisance to the Vaishnavs (Gaudiya and others) who are busy in exploring the vastness of Lord's mercy in any form or sampradaya. Indeed Krsna says he manifests himself before the devotee in the form that he wants him to.


    I think the title of this thread is misleading right from the start, since Gaudiya Vaishnavism is not the philosophy of Prabhupada. Bhaktivedanta Swami has carved a place for himself in eternal history by taking the gift of Mahaprabhu outside of India and thereby blessing the people of this world with Hari-nama. However, the garden in which the sublime path of devotion to Lord Krishna in the mood of Vraja was planted is the Srimad Bhagavatam, which is the most important Gaudiya scripture. According to the Bhagavata itself, as well as the Garuda Purana and other texts which I can quote when I have a little more time, Srimad Bhagavatam is the ripened fruit of the desire tree of Vedic literature. The traditional view is that the recitation of this wonderful shastra occurred some five millenia into the past, first by Sri Sukadeva to Maharaja Parikshit at Suka-tala on the banks of the Ganga and then later by Suta Gosvami to the assembly of sages at Naimisharanya. Some even say that the Bhagavata relates Krishna-lila and other events as they happened in a prior kalpa, which would place these several billions of years back. It is thus hardly a novel philosophy, the one that Swami Prabhupada brought to the West and preached. Sure, those who do not have faith in the Bhagavatam can argue about the truth or falsehood of the Vaishnava concept of reality till the end of time, but that will bring about little in terms of concrete achievements to them. They certainly won't break my faith in the timeless message of Mahaprabhu, whom we know to be Krishna Himself in the garb of a bhakta.


    Srila Sakhicharan das Babaji Ki Jaya!


    As Raghu stated in an earlier post, to everyone their own. Following message of devotion to Krishna of Shri Chaitanya is blissful. But whenever an avatara came, he declared it. Krsna did. Why did Vishwambhar Mishra needed a "Garb" of Chaitanya if he was Krsna? Chaitanya never declared he was Krsna ever. His followers later thought up a term and explanation called "Chhanna avatara" or hidden avatara. This can be debated. But I see no point really. This also goes in contradiction of Gaudiya philosophy of declaring the truth blatantly. Prabhupadha was blunt as hell in what he believed. And he belonged to Gaudiya school of thought. He was Gaudiya. So were the Goswamis. Although he did take Hari nam to the west. But this doesn't change his sampradayic background and lineage philosophy. Regards.


    No, I just ask to which source of knowledge you're refering.

    Sri Caitanya, at the beginning of the discourse with Ramananda requested Ramananda to speak about the ultimate goal of life and to support his statements with the sastra.


    prabhu kahe, "pada sloka sadhyera nirnaya"


    Sri Caitanya said to Ramananda Raya, "Please recite a verse from the revealed scriptures concerning the ultimate goal of life."


    Madhya-lila, 8.57


    This is certainly the generally accepted rule in spiritual circles in India - one must support his statements with reference to the sastra otherwise one will not be accepted as a spiritual authority.


    sruti smrti puranadi panchratra vidhim vina

    aikantiki harer bhaktir utpatayaiva kalpate


    "Devotional service to the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literature like, Upanisads, Puranas, Narada Pancharatra, etc. is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society."


    Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, 1.2.101 and Brahma-Yamala


    What is the need to look in for "quotes" for everything?? Shiva aniihilates the cosmic manifestation. Are you trying to say that He doesn't and Indra does? Does Indra annihilate cosmic manifestation at Brahma's Ratri with that cloud if that cloud particular is used for this by Indra? What does Shiva do then? Why do you consider him "in the mode of ignorance?" Shiva is Satyam, Shivam, Sundram, Sat-Chit-Ananda. Not tamasa as is popularly explained in a complex way dear bhakta.

    Chaitanya was a Pure devotee of Krishna. So much that he was hailed as Krishna himself by his followers. He was more concerned with pure devotion than quotes unquotes. And what are you quoting? Bhakti-rasamrta sindhu is not a Vedic scripture / shastra! Nor is Chaitanya Charitamrita. Have you read Raskhan?? What could the Gopis quote?


    Not a universally fitting shoe. It had a specific size and would only fit certain feet...like yours apparently. Be that as it may there is no need for us to go further with this. You will have to work out your resentments with someone else....I have no connection to iskcon nor am I a Vaisnava however the teachings of the Vaisnava's do make more sense to me than anything else I have encountered so I try to learn something from them.

    Good day.


    Well Good luck with that Theist. My regards.


    In response to my question about how you know that what you say is right, you wrote:


    To me, you and the Hare Krishnas seem to have a lot in common, not the least of which is your propensity to articulate religious views without any obvious attempt to authenticate them on the basis of some mutually-accepted standard of evidence.


    Is the strength of your belief system rooted firmly in the idea that because they do it, then so will you?


    Raghu, I'm not out here to establish a new lineage of thought based on my own experiences. When Prabhupada annouced that Hinduism (Sanatana dharma) and Gaudiyas have nothing in common and oppose each other, what is there to talk of mutually "accepted" standard of evidence.

    Why do people believe their father is their father? Simply because their mother says so? Get an evidence through an accepted DNA test.

    My family Guru was a Vaishnava Yogi who lived for 300 years not too far from Chaitanya's time. I had an American atheist question me about the "evidence". What evidence do I give him? dig up the samadhi and give DNA samples? You need evidence of Nirvikalpa Samadhi? You don't believe saints like Sri Yukteswar Giri, Yogananda, Babaji? Practice your own samadhi and that will be the best evidence. I believe simply through inner guidance that I get from my initiations and visions into the field. - Regards.


    Lord Indra once thought in the 10th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the same as you do, somehow when seeing with his own eyes Lord Krishna lifting Govardahana Hill with just one finger he reconsidered. May be you should follow the example of Lord Indra:


    Indra thought as I do?? Indra is a God! If Gods think like me then I should be flattered. Suchandra, I don't really get impressed by using Bhagwatam example and examples of how Krsna punished such n such persona and if I say or do something then it would imply the exact same thing. Krsna is not lifting Govardhan's everyday. A devotee was murdered in New Vrindavana and his body was secretly burried there by the management or whoever they were.. What did Krsna do? I'll be glad to rise upto the level of Indra and then confront Krsna only to fall under his holy feet. Lord Hanuman lifted a whole mountain too. Lord Shiva protected hsi devotee Markandya from the God of Death Yama. What's the point?



    "When Indra understood that the sacrifice offered by the cowherd men in Vrndavana was stopped by Krsna, he became angry, and he vented his anger upon the inhabitants of Vrndavana, who were headed by Nanda Maharaja, although Indra knew perfectly well that Krsna was personally protecting them. As the director of different kinds of clouds, Indra called for the Samvartaka. This cloud is invited when there is a need to devastate the whole cosmic manifestation.


    There is something wrong in the translation or somewhere here. A cloud with whic Indra annihilates the "whole cosmic manifestation"?? Indra can't do that. That is Lord Shiva's right and job. Shiva can annihilate the whole cosmic manifestation.



    The Samvartaka was ordered by Indra to go over Vrndavana and inundate the whole area with an extensive flood. Demonically, Indra thought himself to be the all-powerful supreme personality. When demons become very powerful, they defy the supreme controller, Personality of Godhead.


    lol! I think you are confusing me with Indra in some way Suchandra ji! I'm not defying Krsna or considering myself as Krsna in anyways! lol. This is a common scare tactic. I think this distortion is uncalled for.



    Indra, though not a demon, was puffed up by his material position, and he wanted to challenge the supreme controller. He thought himself, at least for the time being, as powerful as Krsna. Indra said, "Just see the impudence of the inhabitants of Vrndavana! They are simply inhabitants of the forest, but being infatuated with their friend Krsna, who is nothing but an ordinary human being, they have dared to defy the demigods." Krsna has declared in the Bhagavad-gita that the worshipers of the demigods are not very intelligent. He has also declared that one has to give up all kinds of worship and simply concentrate on Krsna consciousness. Krsna's invoking the anger of Indra and later on chastising him is a clear indication to His devotee that those who are engaged in Krsna consciousness have no need to worship any demigod, even if it is found that the demigod has become angry. Krsna gives His devotees all protection, and they should completely depend on His mercy.

    Indra cursed the action of the inhabitants of Vrndavana and said, "By defying the authority of the demigods, the inhabitants of Vrndavana will suffer in material existence. Having neglected the sacrifice to the demigods, they cannot cross over the impediments of the ocean of material miseries." Indra further declared, "These cowherd men in Vrndavana have neglected my authority on the advice of this talkative boy who is known as Krsna. He is nothing but a child, and by believing this child, they have enraged me." Thus he ordered the Samvartaka cloud to go and destroy the prosperity of Vrndavana. "The men of Vrndavana," said Indra, "have become too puffed up over their material opulence and their confidene in the presene of their tiny friend, Krsna. He is simply talkative, childish, and unaware of the complete cosmic situation, although He is thinking Himself very advanced in knowledge. Because they have taken Krsna so seriously, they must be punished, and so I have ordered the Samvartaka cloud to go to there and inundate the place. They should be destroyed with their cows."

    It is indicated here that in the villages or outside the towns, the inhabitants must depend on the cows for their prosperity. When the cows are destroyed, the people are destitute of all kinds of opulences. When King Indra ordered the Samvartaka and companion clouds to go to Vrndavana, the clouds were afraid of the assignment. But King Indra assured them, "You go ahead, and I will also go, riding on my elephant, accompanied by great storms. And I shall apply all my strength to punish the inhabitants of Vrndavana."

    Ordered by King Indra, all the dangerous clouds appeared above Vrndavana and began to pour water incessantly, with all their strength and power. There was constant lightning and thunder, blowing of severe wind and incessant falling of rain. The rainfall seemed to fall like piercing sharp arrows. By pouring water as thick as pillars, without cessation, the clouds gradually filled all the lands in Vrndavana with water, and there was no visible distinction between higher and lower land. The situation was very dangerous, especially for the animals. The rainfall was accompanied by great winds, and every living creature in Vrndavana began to tremble from the severe cold. Unable to find any other source of deliverance, they all approached Govinda to take shelter at His lotus feet. The cows especially, being much aggrieved from the heavy rain, bowed down their heads, and taking their calves underneath their bodies, they approached the Supreme Personality of Godhead to take shelter of His lotus feet. At that time all the inhabitants of Vrndavana began to pray to Lord Krsna. "Dear Krsna," they prayed, "You are all-powerful, and You are very affectionate to Your devotees. Now please protect us who have been much harassed by angry Indra."

    full story: Devastating Rainfall In Vrindavan


    But thanks for putting this story. I think it is believed in the Brijwasi culture to tell and listen to stories of Govinda's pastimes as auspicious and bringing spiritual benefit. I've gotten some benefit from reading it too. :)


    This is a very verbose answer to what was a very simple question. Perhaps I need to be more clear.


    The question, simplified, is this - how do you know that what you assert to be true is in fact correct?


    The same way, as the Hare Krishnas are in love with a Krishna they have never seen or met. Through the experience of Bona-fide Gurus and Yogis. oh and Krishna himself talks of samadhi too. I don't memorize quote numbers though.


    I didn't address my post to you sir. Feeling overly defensive is often a sign of being sub-conciously aware of having been offensive. Maybe not for you. Perhaps the shoe just fit and because my post followed yours you assumed to be targeted. But actually this is a phenomena that is years old and was meant for many.


    Throwing the universally fitting shoe vaguely at the crowd was an interesting thing Theist.


    Prabhupāda: Yes. Don’t dictate God. The demigod worshipers, they dictate, dhanaṁ dehi, rūpaṁ dehi, yaśo de… This dehi, dehi, dehi. Therefore they are condemned. In the Bhagavad-gītā they have been condemned. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante [Bg. 7.20]. He is so kāmuka, he is ordering God. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ. But that order cannot be carried by God, but the demigods, they sometimes become flattered and give this benediction. So Krishna said, tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām: “This kind of flattering the demigods and take some benediction,” antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām. Order… You cannot order God, but you can flatter these demigods. And therefore people are very much fond of flattering these demigods because…

    Indian man (1): Just to get material wealth. Material happiness.

    Prabhupāda: Yes, that’s it. Tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām. All this material happiness, you may get it, but it will be finished with your body. Krishna says that teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, dadāmi buddhi-yoga [Bg. 10.10]. He says, “I will give intelligence. There is no question of asking. If you become a devotee, sincere devotee, I’ll give you everything without your asking.” You understand, follow? So you qualify yourself. That is wanted. That qualification is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam [Bg. 18.66]. He is always prepared to give you light. Just like sunlight is open always, but if you keep yourself in the dark room, how you can take benefit of the sunlight? Your business is to come before the sun; then everything will be all right. [break] …used to sing like that, sab ke sampatti de bhagavān. Raghupati rāghava rāja… You know? Sab ke sampatti de bhagavān. De bhagavān? What is this nonsense? He’s asking, de bhagavān.

    Tamāla Krishna: What does that mean, “de bhagavān?”

    Guḍākeśa: “Give me.”

    Prabhupāda: Give him. Sab ke sampatti de bhagavān.

    Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That’s for the demigods.

    Prabhupāda: No, he has no sense what is God. This is going on.


    Morning Walks

    by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

    January 22-23, 1976, Māyāpura


    Asking Gods for material gains is shastra sammat! Where does Krishna say in Bhagwad Gita don't ask anything? Asking is not "ordering"!! Prabhupada twisted sanskrit word of "Dehi" to ordering! If its an order, then its not flattery!! (I know some people don't like exclamation marks in my posts) And here in lies the double standard. Double standards don't work in spiritual life. Gods are not flattered. You may burn a thousand lamps of ghee and make all prasadam and keep selling mahaprasadam at higher prices. This flatery doesn't work in pleasing the Gods. Gods don't help unless you are sincere.

    When Krishna wanted to please Lord Shiva he had to do rigorous Pashupat sadhna. So did Arjuna approach Indra and Shiva and probably did say "dehi" to fulfill his aim of getting divine weapons. So this doesn't go in line with the Vedic culture. The Vedic culture doesn't preach to live a life of poverty. But it does teach non attachment to the riches and not falling from spiritual life. In practice, Prabhupada never ceased to keep on collecting rich funds for his organization. :) But his message of keeping the desires of running after material gains alone came on right time for the western people having only material life perspective to life.


    Dear Tantra guy,


    You obviously have some issues with Hare Krishna people. That, and you can't seem to keep your fingers off the exclamation mark key. I am not a Gaudiya Vaishnava, so I am not going to get into all of that. All I want to know is, when you make statements like this -


    ... on what pramana are you basing it? Is it merely your own opinion, and you want to us to accept it on that basis? Or is there some other evidence to substantiate this?


    Raghu ji,




    Well, yog is not essentially a topic for vedantic debate. Its more experiential.

    rasa is experiential. Thus yoga. Bhakti is also yoga as its experience based. To give "pramana" of taste and rasa is to talk of explaining the taste of rajbhog to someone who never taster sugar or anything sweet. I am not talking this personally in terms of you. I'm making a general statement.


    I cant seem to keep my finger off the exclamation key? Is that a problem?

    Yes I'm expressive!


    Of course my statements are not based solely on my own opinion. And I'm not implying that all of you have to accept it. Gaudiyas are good accepting their own versions of stories and milk curd, Shiva 87% etc. theories. No problem. Problem is with the put down of others! (here goes the exclamation mark).


    Many people seem to think that unless you agree to give equal status to everything and everyone then you are being offensive and narrow minded. I consider this very lazy and weak minded thinking.


    There simply are varying levels of consciousness available for the living entity to suffer or enjoy. It should be obvious. For instance the pleasure derived by the pig eating freshly laid stool and the pleasure of the denizens in heaven are not o the same level although at the time and due to maya's influence the pig may disagree thinking fresh stoolis a heavenly delight.


    The pleasure derived in heaven is still mixed to a degree with ignorance and passion and the soul is still subject to samsara so brahman realization is considered higher when both are compared from a neutral viewpoint.


    Brahman realization or sayuja-mukti is further seen as pale in comparison to having an active rasa with Krsna in seritude, friendship, parental or conjugal mood. Which means that those who teach simple absorbtion in to the Absolute are teaching a lesser realization than those that teach a loving exchange (rasa) with the Absolute as the person He is.


    Simple truth. There are gradations of ananda in life. If someone says they don't believe that and it is ultimately all one experience then we can ask them why they are trying to raise their own consciousness and are not satisfied with what they have now.


    They are trying to raise their consciousness to experience a higher state of ananda.


    Even within the four rasa's mention there are gradations of intimacy between them. Friendship will contain servitude by servitude may not contain friendship. And both may be found with within conjugal but conjugal may not be in them.


    Variety is the spice of life and that means spiritual life as well.


    I can respect Lord Buddha Sankaracarya and even Lao Tsu and Rumi without being a follower of them or wanting to achieve the goal of life as they describe it.


    Yes Gaudiya vaisnavas think their way is the best. That is why they follow that path and are known a Gaudiya Vaisnava's. Other Vaisnava's think their angle on Vaisnavism is best. The Advaitins think the Vaisnavas are all sentimentalists. To each his own.


    We are not under any obligation to accept anything and everything as being equal. Likewise not every teacher is equal in the siddhanta they teach or the way they live that siddhanta out in their personal lives.


    So make your choice in who to follow and good luck to you. If you don't like the choice I have made so what? It's simply none of your business anyway and your opinion means nothing to me. I don't seek out your places of association and then go there to criticize your guru so why do you come here? What is your motive.


    Honest questions are encouraged and disagreements and doubts are there in all of us. But this mocking tone is childish and disruptive.


    Just one soul's opinion.


    Another common Hare Krishna MISCONCEPTION about mukti and Brahm!!

    The Hare Krsna's think that ONLY Gaudiya Vaishnava has it all. All the Rasa!!

    The highest stage of rasa is Nirvikalpa samadhi. Its impossible without rasa. The bhakti elements of highest order are present in yogis and bhakti happily is not a monopoly of Gaudiya sampradaya indeed. So what's new? The loving relation between God and devotee is pure ananda. And the good thing about it is that its available to the mundane and those able to reach the higher levels of consciousness and rasa!

    But then as I said, the Hare Krsna narrow world is divided into two - Hare Krsna devotees and the rest of the world!! ;-)

    You said you "don't seek "our/my" places of association so why I / we come here? Wrong!!! You are everywhere - malls, airports, streets, approaching houses everywhere! :) When your Guru criticized everybody around, he should have been ready to receive some of it back? Law of Karma eh?

    No. I'm not here to criticize anybody really. That's not the motive!! If my opinion meant "nothing" to you, you wouldn't have cared to reply to my post that wasn't addressing you.


    We all share the common society, the world. Its fine - to each his own faith. The HK has every right to believe they are the best!! But you evoke confrontation by confronting. Simple. You don't remain happy simply worshipping!! That would've been attractive!! You don't simply say you believe in your line of philosophy. No. You go beyond that. Advaitins, impersonalists, yogis, sages, saints and everybody else are "Fools and Rascals" and people with "lower intelligence"!!! That's where you go into other people's business!!! You are not just minding your own business dude!! That's the reason of "mocking tone"! Its not childish. You want to remain aloof everybody posing "Maharaj" calling them fools n rascals n putting down and if they react they are "childish" Nice. :)

    Let me disagree with your philosophy and see the garb of humbleness come off in a jiffy!! I've seen it a million times in the past 25 years!! And then I seek one truly humble loving Vaishnava! And he becomes my best friend!

    Gaudiya label or not!! I do not care!!! The Soul is not "Gaudiya" or non Gaudiya!! Nor is Krishna!!!

    Hare Krsna!!


    Haribol all!


    As I had mentioned in another thread I don't think the philosophy or works of Srila Prabhupada are without flaw. I'd like to outline my problems with his philosophical ideas here, and give a chance for any of his followers to address these problems I have.


    First and foremost is the demi-god concept (a concept I see in not just ISKCON, but Vaishnavism all together). Amongst the so-called demigods are Indra, and Yamaraj. However in RigVeda 1:164:46 we find This would contradict the idea held by ISKCON that these deities are seperate from Vishnu and inferior compared to him, seeming to indicate that rather they are other facets or forms of Vishnu.


    There's more to come, but unfortunatley I have to run at the moment.


    Hairbol all!


    OMG Baobad man!!! Now you just put your hand in the beehive!! Now all the Hare Krsna who preach that gyana and scriptural flowery words are not above simple hearted pure bhakti will impound you with the various scriptural jugglery and their gaudiya shloka philosophy prowess!!!


    As JN das clearly stated that The Gaudiya system is in direct contradiction to Hinduism, Brahm and advaita, there is no use arguing or expecting any debate!!! The Hare Krsna world in categprized into two segments - Vaishnavas (essentially Gaudiya Vaishnavas as the supreme) and non Vaishnavas or the - Karmis, Mayavadis, etc. etc. If you are under the Gaudiya Umbrella, then you are safe talking! Otherwise not!!


    This has always been my experience. And I talk from experience. Not just "purports" of someone else!!! I know this message will be taken as "offensive" on a pro hare Krsna forum. But i'm tired of being pseudo humble and saying sorry, when none of the Hare Krsna's say sorry for putting down Shri Shankaracharya, the vedic rishis, Lord Shiva as a mere "demi-God", saying Shiva worship is done by people of low intelligence when Krishna himself extensively worshipped Shiva becoming a Shaiva!! The Gaudiya philosophy is a one sided view of spiritual life, is very rigid and does not entertain any other view point. It does accept that God has many possibilities, but it does not find it acceptable to accept those possibilities, forms or ways to reach him. Everything has a double standard sadly.


    Where in any of the accounts of Ramanuja's life is such a thing spoken of?





    What is so clear about Chaitanya's reference in the above verses? The name "Sri Krishna Chaithanya" is not even in these verses. Also, the above two lines are often quoted by iskcon devotees as if they are a single verse. They are NOT. They are parts of *two* *different* verses juxtaposed together and passed off as a "clear description" of Sri Krishna Chaitanya.








    Yes I would agree a lot of things are presented and interpreted in a certain way to pass off certain things here.

  16. There are many many benefits of wearing Rudraksha beads!! There is no question of offense. If someone talks of Rudraksha as an offense, then that person is speculating only. Whosoever he may be. But there are certain rules as to what is dear for what kind of sadhna and to what deity. Rudraksha is favorite of Shiva whereas Tulasi of Narayana, Krishna, Rama. So the rule applies to chanting a specific mantra with a specific bead. But you can wear rudraksha. while still chanting Hare Krsna mantra with tulasi beads. No problem.

    In any case, Rudraksha can have no offense over anything. Krishna worshipped Shiva and practiced Pashupata yoga. Do you think he didn't wear Rudraksha? Most Vedic sages wore Rudraksha beads whether or not they were exclusive Shiva bhaktas. Thank you!

    Hare Krishna.





    Dear Devotees, I've recently seen Krsna devotees wearing Rudraska Mala as well as Tulasi Mala. Is that an offense? Or are Rudraska beads okay because the Greatest Vaisnava wears them?


    Hare Krsna

  17. hmmm.. agree mostly Sephiroth.


    10,000 babies aborted every year and 1 baby born every 1 minute on this planet, and India happens to be the second most populated country too by the way. Hinduism will survive. It has survived through the barbaric islamic onslaught of a 1000 years straight, it has survived the 200 years of British raj. And it is surviving the modern westernization of India and its culture.

    But Hindus sure need to get off their butt and promote good Hindu values and their culture and religion by practicing themselves first.


    The current pro islamic and pro roman catholic congress government led by Sonia Maino of Italy gags up Hinduism in the name of pseudo secularism.

    They are more interested in enriching the party and personal lives than deal with caste system or other problems. Further there are politicians like Mayawati who have blown up the very caste system out of proportions to fill up thier pockets beyond imagination of common man! The woman spent almost two million dollars on her birthday bash!! and she gives slogans protecting the poor and downtrodden from lower castes collecting huge funds in their name.

    Problems are many. And if we start concentrating on them, then we loose focus. We need to promote Hinduism. And not concentrate on what's wrong. A lot of things have gone wrong. Nobody should expect India to be a pure land after reading the Ramayana or Bhagwatam stories!! Many Hare Krsnas come to India for the first time imagining stories from Bhagwatam etc.

    There are many dilutions in the values and culture that have taken places through past many hundred years. BUT, the pure richness of spirituality can still be found!!! Its not everywhere. But IT IS there. Still. It has gone into hiding! From the illusions and commercialization and complications of modern day values. The simple, the pure is still there. We can seek and find it too. Its available. But it also needs to be propagated. So that more and more people come and can benefit.


    If a small 500 years old sect can go the west and propagate its values, then thousands of years old Hinduism / Sanatana Dharma can surely do that!!!



    At one time, Hindus have covered most of Asia - from Afghanistan and all the way to Indo-China. Traces of Hindu culture could be found in Japan and China as well.


    Matter a fact, many Japanese youngsters are told to learn more about Hindusm to get to know Buddhism better (at least, according to some websites I have been to). But today, Hindusm is shrinking even in India, and many of the ppl outside India doesn't know about Hindusm and its principals.


    But what happened today? India is holy? I have read somewhere that at least 10,000 abortions occurs every year in India, and thousands of female children were killed in rural areas.


    Caste System is a real headache and India Government doesn't seems to be bothered about it. Matter a fact, India IS the ONLY country in the World where any "caste" can start their own party. Unless you want to consider Neo-Nazi movement, which is illegal, by the way.


    India is holy? In what way? Just because it is a birth place of great Sages, that alone does not make India holy. Take Gautama Buddha for example. He is considered Holy man by many cultures in Asia, and India happened to be his birth place. Yet Buddhism almost gone here.


    Even in Hindusm, Mahabratha and Ramayana are called "Mythical stories" and Gita is called Philosphical book by Westerners, and even some Indians themselves. I bet many of Indians have not read any of this books. Some could say that they worship Lord Shiva therefore, they don't want to read other beliefs. Close-minded if you ask me.


    Whether India is holy or not, it matters not. If Hindusm is to survive, Hindus better get you butt moving and start promoting your culture and beliefs.




    Hare Krsna devotees, I have another question about a possible form/child of the Lord. Is Lord Ayyappa a worshipable deity ? May I offer him my service?

    Please forgive me if I've made any offenses in my questions. They are strictly for my own spiritual growth.

    Hare Krsna


    Where did the Lord put restrictions on the worship of his forms? child or adult form, all are worth worshipping. Only the 'bhava' is different.

  19. Dear Vigraha,

    Nice explanation. Can you please let know where in Shrimad Bhagwatam is mentioned that "Lord Chaitanya comes once only in a thousand Kaliyugas!"? i'll feel myself blessed to read it.

    Do you happen to know of any other 'channa avataras' apart from Shri Chaitanya? who are they? Thank you.

    Hare Krsna!



    In his book Laghu-bhagavatamrta, Srila Rupa Gosvami has enumerated the following twenty-five lila-avataras: Catuh-sana, Narada, Varaha, Matsya, Yajna, Nara-Narayana, Kapila, Dattatreya, Hayasirsa (Hayagriva), Hamsa, Prsnigarbha, Rsabha, Prthu, Nrsimha, Kurma, Dhanvantari, Mohini,

    Vamana, Parasu rama, Raghavendra, Vyasa, Balarama, Krsna, Buddha and Kalki.


    Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is not mentioned as a lila-avatara because He is an incarnation in disguise (channa-avata-ra) In this way, He only rarely appear in a Kali Yuga in the disguise of a humble Vaishava sanyasi.


    In the particular age of Kali yuga He appears (one out of many thousands of Kali-yugas), He is known as the Golden Avatar incarnation of the Lord manifesting AS Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. This has been explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam."

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