Tantrayoga

I agree with this actually.

Your point is well noted, but keep in mind that this is only from one source. The hindu religion is too complex and at the best of times confusing to understand, so I have decided to study various text and sources to find, in my mind the right answer. It should also be pointed out that any writer or composer, be it a sage, saint or professor will and have impose their own views and opinions on matters that are not easy to deciper. To make my point that I consider the goddess to be SUPREME, I will bring to your attention various points and their sources. Starting with the Devi Mahatmyam (the ultimate text used in the worship of the Devi). In the very first hymn, the Brahmastuti - Brahma hymned the goddess as such: By you, he who creates, protects adn devours the world is subdued with sleep, Who here can praise you? You have caused even Vishnu, Siva and me to assume our embodied form, Who then can truly praise you. In of course all the verses she is hymed as the greatest of being having powers over all the gods. In the other hymn I saw posted earlier in this discussion - known as the Aparajitastuti (hymn to the Invincible Devi) This hymn is of course a celebration of the Devi immanence, praising her various aspects from the formless abstraction of supreme power to specific forms assumed by that power. Also this hymn sheds light on the meaning of the name Durga as you have pointed out in your response - basically means "difficult to access or approach" - similar to a fort - but of course with a different spin as explained in your source. I also would like to bring to your attention the mention of the goddess, Aditya and Vac who are Vedic goddesses, whose hymns are on par with the hymns to the Gods of the Rig Veda. This is a rare occurence in the Vedas, moreso the Rig Veda where these two hymns are found. These two goddesses have in later Vedic period become identified with the Great Devi herself. The Rig Veda hymn to Vac become known as the Devi Sukta hymn and is recited at the beginning of the Devi Mahatmyam. These two hymns establishes the Goddess (or some feminine power) as the mother of the Gods and the very creation of this world. Something we can discuss later. I would like to hear your response and we can continue with this dicussion later.

Of course all respected acharyas and Gurus should be given due respects.

But the problem is that some vaishnava acharyas don't exactly refrain from calling other Gurus as fools and rascals and putting them down while keep hailing their own parampara as super duper supreme.

So its a very biased kind of situation. My sampradaya is super cool and if you utter a word against it you are doomed and blasphemed and will have the wrath of krsna etc. But I can call you whatever since according to quote number so and so in my sampradaya's accepted scripture, such and such conduct is not exactly falling in line with it.

I think in spiritual life, we should learn to respect all.

A small example is Sai Baba. I do not follow Sai Baba of Puttaparthy.

But I would not abuse him either. He is be 70+ and walks with difficulty. And I've heard a lots of pseudo Krsna enthusiasts hurling abuses like pedophile, sexist etc. What sex can you be doing at that age? Maybe use some discretion and logic?

I heard a few of his lectures and he was hailing bhakti to Shri Krsna, in another lecture to Shri Shiva. If someone increases his bhakti to Krsna or Shiva by hearing that, then its good. So my opinion is that we just tend to form a mob opinion about someone and start hurling our stones.

If I'm not sure about something or haven't exactly experienced it myself, I would refrain from abusing a Guru. But I didn't really appreciate Prabhupada calling Shri Ramakrishna Paramahansa as "fool" publicly and other Indian Gurus as fools and rascals. That's a hard thing to swallow. And I see his followers easily abusing others while praising their own sect. How close this is to Vaishnavism or to Lord Vishnu, see for yourself.

Aditya has made some noteworthy points.

Hey adithya,

 

Stop telling "ramanujacjarya" as a fool. Krishna wont love you or accept you just because you are calling krishna's beloved devotee as a fool. First try to respect bagawathas first before respecting God itself. You have committed a great sin by calling "Ramanujacharya" as a fool.

You are the biggest fool in this universe by calling respected achryas like "Ramanujacharya" as fools.

Neither Shiva or Vishnu will love stupid arrogrant fools like you.

 

Om Namo Narayanaya

Tantrayoga :

 

And that is why today, Hindus live like 3rd class citizens in their own country, which runs by Muslims and Christians who doesn't mind allowing their own brethen run amok in India.

 

Gautama Buddha once said - Injustice (Adharma) occurs when righteous people does nothing (except to watch injustice occuring).

 

The Brahmins should have challenged the Muallahs/Imans and Christian Priests to religious debate. The Kyastrias should challenged the Muslims and Christians zealots to combat. The Sudra and Vaiyas should did what they could to support them. ALL OF THEM FAILED.

 

India have been divided by Hindus living in smaller states, not bothered by what happening on other states and think too highly of themselves (of being able to fight alone). British came, saw that Hindus are divided, learnt from Muslims on how to divide and conquer and follow this policy.

 

And today, we still see the effect of this British policy. Hindus are too divided to be made whole again. Hindusm taken apart and sects born from this, made the people even more divided. Caste System, which comes from British influence becomes the basis for Indians society.

 

In short, India have received independance ... Hindus have not.

Can't help but agree!!! This is sad, isn't it ..

And now when some people try to unite the Hindus.. they are immediately named as Hindu extremists!! Although many of the parties who are trumpeting the Hindu thing have political agendas as a political party trying to win the Hindu votes. But still its much better than those parties who are getting illegal uneducated muslim immigrants from across the border (from Bangladesh) into India, promising them free ration cards and getting their votes. Its still better to give job and education quotas to millions of muslim "minorities" everywhere for their votes!! Just because they are at times categorized as a minority in India, a country that has much exceeded its muslim population than Pakistan an islamic country. Where muslims have not only equal but extra rights over the Hindus!

Then there are the Christian minorities who also have equal rights and have certain quotas and benefits. And there are the Christian sects who are busy

demoting and putting down the Vedic culture and its values.

Have a look at this guy. He is an evangelist.

Of course this guy is mockery in himself and can entertain you for a while.

But there are many more people like him. And there are the ones who believe crap like this too.

In other words Hinduism and Hindus should be stronger and more united in India. It is a very flexible religious spiritual system based on eternal truthful time tested bona-fide values that suit to any belief system - impersonal or personal .. it has every branch of knowledge for spiritual growth that one may look for. Spiritual, material, social... everything.

This is a great offense to the Lotus Feet of Lord Shiva. Don't you know that Lord Vishnu incarnates as Lord Brahma and Lord Shiva? Since they are His incarnation (and Vishnu Himself is an incarnation of Sriman-Narayana), then the Trimurti are all equal and all deserve respect and worship. The proof for this (that from Vishnu incarnated Brahma and shiva) is in the Vishnu Purana's creation story and also from:

 

Om Tryambakam Yajaamahe

Sugandhim Pushti Vardhanam

Urvaarukamiva Bandhanaat

Mrityor Muksheeya Ma-Amritaat

(Taittiriya Upanishad 2.7)

 

Let us worship Shiva (the three-eyed One), who is sacred (fragrant) and who nourishes all beings. Just as the ripe cucumber is automatically released from its attachment to the creeper, may we be liberated from death (our mortal body and personality) and be granted immortality. (Taittiriya Upanishad 2.7)

and

 

"To those unaware of Your position understanding it the material way do You, by Yourself expanding Your maya, appear for the matters of creation as Me (Brahma), as Yourself for the purpose of maintenance and as Lord Trinetra (Shiva) in the end." (Bhagavata Purana 10.14.19)

Such greats as Sri Bhagavan Swaminarayan and Sri Ramaunjacharya have accepted this fact. In fact, this is the very reason why Ramanujacharya preferred the Name "Sriman-Narayana" or "Lord Narayana" to address the Divine in order to not confuse people into thinking that Vishnu the Preserver was better than the rest of the Trimurti.

 

Why can't the rest of Vaishnavas? Why must we twist the teachings of our Acharyas in order to fit our own "My-God-is-better-than-your's" beliefs?

Nice post Arjuna Haridas! The twist in the original philosophy is there because of the my sampradaya or my God over your God mentality. Some times we also call it churchianity. Each church hails itself over the other. Nothing much to do with the originality of God and his realization or realization of the self as Lord Krsna repeats in his Gita.

All glories to Lord Shiva and Lord Shri Krsna/Rama who are devoted to each other in all the three worlds and beyond! Not all Vaishnavas are able to comprehend this very special and highly exalted relationship. But just one side of it. They only remember that shambhu is a devotee of Krsna, but ignore Krsna's devotion to Shiva in his every incarnation.

Lord Shiva comes to help and serve Rama as Hanuman which is an example of bhakti and devotion in itself! And Rama worships Shiva!! Krsna also worshiped Shiva. As Lord Shiva tells Ramachandra after he is please with Rama's austerities to please Shiva, that his loving relationship with him (Rama) is the biggest secrets of all and no one fully comprehends it. Any devotee of Hari putting down Shiva as lower than him or any devotee of Shiva putting down hari as lower will go to Raurav narak.

Actually, I would not agree with the statement that the islamic scriptures tell the muslims to fight the kafirs (non muslims) "WHEN THEY FIGHT THEM"!

This is not at all so in their scriptures and this has never been so in their religion's practice starting from its very origin. India had peaceful Hindus who were not fighting anyone when the muslim invaders came to kill and loot mercilessly.

The atrocities that were carried out by the muslims were the most gruesome anywhere. This is true history. The Hindus never went to arabia to fight them. They came to kill and loot and conquer. So it is not true that the muslims fight the non muslims (kafirs) "when" they fight them!

Unfortunately this is a sad and horrible truth that thousands of Hindus had to witness.

Sure the Christians are to make peace with the non Christians as mentioned in the new testament. But then the new testament was well tempered by King George of England. And the same Britishers carried out greedy and bloody assaults on many nations world over, looting, killing, grabbing peoples' native land and properties and enslaving them, thus they also brought the message of the Bible. They came to India and tried best to change the Vedic history and scriptures. The East India Company (established under Her Majesty the Queen of England) paid princely salaries to scholars like Max Muller and others to declare that the Vedas were brought into the otherwise backward India from the west by the Aryans some time before Jesus. They translated the Indian scriptures to reflect their ideology away from the Vedic truth. These flag bearers of the Bible and 'message of peace' had their main agenda of conquering other lands, enslaving their people grabbing their land and establishing their own rule on foreign territory, commanding other in their own house what to do. And once the world has agreed and learnt to say "Yes Sire!" and be ready at their beck and call, peace was made. This was the main message of peace that the gallantry English brought to the world.

Sure Jesus didn't tell them to wage wars. But the Islamic scriptures have clear cut instructions for war and severest punishments towards Kafirs (non believers of Islam). For a muslim, the world is divided into two parts - muslim and non-muslim. Non muslims should be eliminated. Muslims should rule. Its a simple nazi like philosophy. Only with a religious twist and much more dangerous. And needless to say, for a muslim, there ARE good things in his religion - fasting, daily prayers and brotherhood (BUT this is only with and for muslims). No place for brotherhood or sharing with non muslims!!

No such dictates are to be found in Hinduism. A lot of criticism can be hurled at Hindus for cast system, etc etc.. which is not understood in its true spirit. But how many Hindus carry out attacks on other nations grabbing their land and properties, killing the people? How many Hindus have bombed Iraq and Hiroshima and Vietnam? How many Hindu scriptures are telling them to kill the muslims and the christians? None!!

The sikh genocide was not a Hindu fault. If you do a search on Google and youtube for the word "Khalistan" and 'Bhindranwala' that was the reason and root cause of those riots that happened in 84 in India between Hindus and sikhs. Sikhism came out of Hinduism to protect Hindus. But at that time a terrorist sikh religious radical group started agitating the sikhs against Hindus and calling themselves as freedom fighters and demanding a separate nation. They went to villages and towns and killed many people who were simply Hindus in the Punjab state. Punjab has huge sikh population. And they have no problems of indifference. Sikhs are everywhere, in police, state administration, everywhere. This group said that the sikhs were minorities and didn't have enough rights. They wanted the whole government and system to become sikh like. And India is a multicultural, multi language, multiracial nation. How can everyone become sikhs? Imagine the blacks in the U.S. unite and tell all the whites to become black like or else give 10 states to the blacks and let them have a separate Afro-American nation!! This is what it was. Anyway, the terrorists took charge of the temple and put in heavy arms and ammunitions in it and started firing from it. They were requested to surrender, but fanatics are fanatics. Finally the government had to charge in and kill them. The Sikhs got agitated that the Indian government desecrated their holy temple (that had terrorists living in it with grenades and automatic guns). And the agitated sikhs started attacking HIndus anywhere they could. The Hindus retaliated. And that was the so called 'sikh genocide' that you mentioned. It was a Hindu genocide as well. Once the terrorists were out, the Golden Temple was returned to it previous glory and sanctity.

Hare Krishna Tantrayoga,

first of all I would like to thank you for your civilized response to my critique of atanu's message, though I feel it didn't warrant such a civilized response as it was written quite harshly and in the heat of the moment. So again thank you for that. I shall now attempt to comment on your reply in an equally civilized fashion, I hope you will appreciate it: ....

Haribol!

Namaskar Nrsinghadev das!

Thanks for your detailed response. I really appreciate it. You have made a lot of nice points.

.. ugh.. I wrote a detailed reply but somehow it got deleted

In general, as per the Gaudiya perspective, I agree mostly with what you have said.

In my system, I follow a culmination of Bhakti, and ancient Vedic mantra and tantra practices that are faster as far as results are concerned. Other forms of yogas develop overall faculties of a sadhak. If concentration is not necessary in bhakti yoga, then I would disagree. Yoga prepares a sadhak to put hundred percent of all his faculties into his sadhna. If sankirtana is the only and fastest and direct most way and all Arjuna, Krsna and all other sages had longer and arduous ways of worship, then again, a part of it may not necessarily be true. But then my sadhna has more accent on being experiential than Vedantic reading.

Shiva is supreme for a Shaiva, whereas Krsna or Rama is supreme for the Vaishnava. I have no conflicts here of not accepting one side over the other. Both are devoted to each other. Shiva is a devotee of Krsna/Narayana/Rama. And Rama/Krisna/Narayan/Vishnu - devotee of Shiva. This has been explained through countless scriptures and told by the avataras and bhagwans themselves. Sampradayas put one over the other because of their attachment to one form of the Lord over the other and there is the identity thing too. Goswami Tulasidas was attached to the Rama form and when Shri Krsna appeared before him, he had to take bow and arrow in his hands and then only did Goswami Tulasidas bowed before him. So you may consider Shiva as a 'gatekeeper'.. whereas I can worship him as devadi dev shri MAHAdeva, as supreme. And this would mean no offense.

Gaudiya Vaishnavas put Bhagwatam in the center and put aside Shiv Mahapurana as "Tamasik". Where as Shiavas wouldn't give much importance to Bhagwatam, but won't reject it altogether either.

The truth is somewhere near and there is a very fine line of differentiation between the two. Shri Bhagwan is the final knower of it all. While we can argue and fight one sampradaya over the other.

By other Gurus I had meant other Gurus outside the Gaudiya Sampradaya. There are and have been many bona-fide Gurus outside it too. They should be respected too.

I wouldn't agree with Shri Prabhupada disrespecting Shri Ramakrishna Paramahansa who was a pure devotee of maa Kali and who also worshipped Krsna as a 'fool' and 'rascal' publicly in America!! This comment wasn't worth it!! Really!!

By saying that if you criticize me then you criticize my grandfather who was head of this state, thus you are criticizing head of the state by criticizing me is not exactly the same. Of course there have been changes to the sampradaya. There are differences even after Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati Thakur! His master allowed Shiva worship (in whatever form) and observance of Shivaratri at places. Prabhupada didn't in Iskcon (for whatever reason - hippies or non hippies). Now I'm hearing a scandal from Prabhupada disciples who don't want to see Shivaratri celebrated in Iskcon temple as some temples have still done that. Would Krsna ban celebrating Shivrartri?? Hell NO!! Shiva worship has always been there in Vedic Bharat. Whether it was Lord Rama's time or Lord Krishna's time. Shri Nanda ji used to worship, so did the Gopis and Krsna's wives. And so did Lord Shri Krsna. The glories of Lord Shiva is well described in detail by Lord Krsna himself to Yudhishthira maharaj in the mahabharata. So have they been described by Shri Rama in the Padma Purana's Shiva Gita Khanda.

So saying - what Prabhupada did or said cannot be challenged because its the same as challenging Krsna himself and can be as dangerously punishable as Durvasa muni example etc.. is not a fairly acceptable statement. If your sampradaya is aggressively defensive about aparadhas towards it and if all bona-fide Vedic sampradayas are equal and Sanatana, then you will have to be careful about aparadhas to them too.

Furthermore, Shri Prabhupada didn't touch upon other aspects of Sanatana Dharma or himself didn't practice yogic disciplines like kriya yog etc, not simply because there was no use of it, but he wasn't initiated into those branches of practice. Hence he didn't go deeply into them as did Lord Krsna. Kaliyug or not, a clean and quite place is still available. One can practice in privacy of one's own room. Clean it with pavitrikarana mantras. Its a lame excuse that where will you find a clean and quite place in kaliyuga. There have been numerous yogis in India who have attained perfection and God communion through practice of Kriya, kundalini, bhakti, tantra yoga.

My family Guru who lived around the same time as Shri Chaitanya was a Vaishnava Yogi and lived for 300 years. He had all the highest siddhis, was a devotee of Shri Ramachandra and shri Rama appeared to him many times.

Further, I cannot accept that all the mantras have become useless because it is 'kaliyuga' and that only Hare Krsna mantra only works. If initiated through proper siddha Guru, practiced methodically, using proper knowledge of asana, bandha, mudra, pranayama, various nyas, mantra sadhna gives immediate and effective results and Vedic mantras as effective today as they were before. In fact tantrik mantras have proven to be more effective in Kaliyuga. And there are solutions to man's problems through it too - spiritual or material. Its also true that to do proper sadhna one needs a healthy body and mind.

Only way why mantras don't work is because man has become weaker to sustain the energy generated by them. Man has become weaker and doesn't meet the standards to generate that energy either. That's why Shri Chaitanya had given a simpler method. That could be followed by all. If you call yourself one following Vedic knowledge and Sanatana Dharma, then I don't think there should be a problem accepting other parts of Sanatana Dharma too, besides the bhakti part. You may agree still that the sadhna practice during that time was different from now. That was the Vedic practice. Arjuna didn't practice sankirtana to attain Pashupatastra.

And Arjuna was indeed a seasoned yogi!! Anyone who can travel to the heavenly planets with his body cannot be an ordinary person. He was overwhelmed upon seeing Lord Krsna's universal form or Virat swaroop. So did Lord Rama express similar feelings upon seeing Lord Shiva's universal form, wherein he also say the ten avataras of Vishnu including krsna avatara and his leelas, killing of Kamsa etc. But any one who has sincerely tried and attained a small siddhi can understand what one has to go through and what it means to harness the siddhis and powers that Arjuna had through his sadhna. The sadhnas were more experiential in nature. His finally experiencing the virat swaroop of Bhagwan shri Krsna brought to his final understanding too. It will be fallible to conclude that the only result of Arjuna's experiencing Lord's unversal form was fear and no realization. Anubhutis, darshan and experience bring about transformations in consciousness in a yogi.

Just stop for a moment and contemplate deeply that Shri Krsna has appeared before you in all his glory!! In his magnificent beautiful all attractive form!! Will you feel the same as you feel upon seeing the deity at the temple? or will your experience change something in your consciousness?

I'm not trying to lower the importance of sankirtana bhakti method in anyway. Its a bonafide method given by Shri Mahaprabhu and well its possible to attain God communion through it too. Bhakta Dhruva and Prahlada attained Lord Shri Krsna through sadhna of Om Namo Bhagwate Vasudevaya maha mantra.

I hope you don't take this message as offensive in any way. That will be sad.

I will try to write more in future.

Please accept my obeisance and regards.

Haven't Hindus bombed mosques and killed inncoent Muslims in India (Ayodhya and Gujarat come to mind here)?

Namaskar!

umm... I can see your point here Arjuna.. but Hindus didn't bomb any mosque except the Babri mosque that was a symbol of oppression and brutality and was in disuse for a long long time! It seems you haven't really read into the Indian history of the last 1000 years. Maybe all humans can be treated equally on humanitarian grounds. Good! But proper viveka or judgement is necessary too. If we could view all humans as exactly the same, no matter what they did, then Lord Krsna wouldn't have encouraged Arjuna to participate in the great war of Mahabharata or pick up a weapon against other humans! We are the offsprings of this Mahan Bharata in deed. And we must live upto its name. Everybody hurts (as goes the REM song), but some things are justified, some not.

You are living proof of why it's so hard to be a Western Hindu.

Your being Hindu maybe a new and in transition of sorts. Maybe you are struggling with beliefs. Or have establishes one belief and feel opposition towards the other? Never-mind. Transition is not an easy phase as it destroys the old whilst the new has not yet been fully established. And this holds true not only for "western" or eastern Hindus. This holds very true for one's struggles in life too. It holds true if you have decided to change your life from one type of belief system, one type of living to another. It even holds true if you are freshly becoming a vegetarian from a meat eater. Hinduism or eternal Sanatana Dharma has truths pertaining to the soul, life and God that can be applicable to anyone "western or eastern Hindus. A Hindu is a Hindu.

Why is Mecca holy? Because every year, millions of Muslim men and women risk their lives (there have been many deaths on the Hajj) to submit themselves to their God and preform a ritual which they believe will please their God. Have you ever been to Mecca? The sense of brotherhood there is strong. So strong that even Malcolm X abandoned his belief that whites are devils and accepted that all are equal. Such a brotherhood that you will not experience anywhere else on Earth. If this is Godless, then I am Godless.

Well noted. I've been to Mecca at least virtually through a detailed documentary by a western Christian turned muslim lady. The sense of brotherhood indeed is strong there. In all the rituals. But the brotherhood is limited only to like minded muslims. God and his likeness has been limited. God has to be formless here. And the ancient Gods of Mecca, who's broken by Mohammed's command idols remains lay in a pit are stoned with great "godly" fervor amongst the 'devotees'. Go to Meccas and declare that you are a "Hindu" and are overwhelmed with the muslim Godly brotherhood and that you want to pray to God in a Hindu way in Mecca. Will the muslims be happy? Tell them that you are so glad that they have a Shivalingam in the temple of Mecca and you have come to pray to it in this Godly place, since God is one and everywhere. It will be interesting to see this experience, isn't it? Brotherhood also comes easily where there is staunch fanaticism. But then, I've seen brotherhood in a bar. There is brotherhood amongst the jehadis, who are ready to lay down their very lives for the sake of a common goal! Where would you see such brotherhood? Hindus are not doing that!! So they certainly aren't that brotherly for one!!

As the Hadiths state, Mohammed was haunted by a spirit ghost who would say things to him. And he was afraid of him. More than twice he tried to take his own life by jumping off the cliff, but was warned by the same ghostly spirit. He married Aisha who was a small child .. what.. 8 years old? That was Godly alright!!

I've got a small ebook that I can send you, if you want. This is about the muslim invasion of India. The extent of loot, rape, killings in most gruesome manners that India witnessed during that period can't be described without tears!!! thousands of beautiful Hindu young virgin women were forcibly taken and stuffed into harems of so called Kind hearted emperors like Shahjahan and others. If you go to the Agra Fort you can see this harem too with your own eyes. It had 5,000 women! And then Shahjahan took over The Taj mahal from Maharaja Jai Singh which was a Shiva Temple. Desecrated the deities and Shivalingam in it. Superimposed Koranic letters in black on it and wrote a legend of his eternal love for ONE woman he ever loved!!! Most temples and ancient most precious scriptures were destroyed!! Ayodhya and Mathura , Varanasi and Vrindavana are just an example of this. Babar a foreign invader from Samarkand and Bukhara destroyed the sacred Rama temple in Ayodhya and erected an empty mosque in its place. This place had a deep and holy history to it. It was and is revered as a very holy place by millions of Hindus all over the world. Finally this mosque that was in disuse for many many years was torn down. And immediately hundreds of Hindu temples were destroyed the very next day all over the muslim world. What is holy? Where is that place? Indeed the muslims have a brotherhood as you have noticed in your comments. They have been specializing in destroying temples and deities all through their history of existence. oh and the Twin Towers in New York.. were they also destroyed by the muslims?.. never mind. Important is that they are brotherly while at the mecca!! Even though they are the fiercest against the rest of the world just because they are non muslims.

If you went to the holy pilgrimages of Amarnath, kedarnatha and Badrinath, Mt. Kailash, Vaishno Devi you would find a lot of brotherhood too where devotees go with a clean heart and mind for the holy pilgrimage. Each year many pilgrims are killed under landslides in these difficult Himalayan terrains. But they don't care, they chant the holy name and keep on climbing, just to see their beloved Deity!

And they don't kill people or tear down mosques or churches when they come back!!

Why is the Vatican holy? Because here is where laws are made that focus on the worship of Yahweh/Jehovah and the Pope lives here. As we can see from the last Pope (John Paul II), these people are bonafide. If this is Foolish, then I am Foolish.

No you are not foolish. You are just trying to make a point clear in your own way. To be able to see God everywhere.

But interestingly enough, I was watching a documentary on the Vatican the other say. Just about a week ago. This lady who was a Vatican insider and was thorough with inside history and facts was telling how the secret lovers of the popes used them to reach their brothers and others to the top in politics since the Vatican influenced the King and enjoyed a lot of power there.

To come to some sort of an understanding, again we have to come back to the roots, to the Vedic civilization, to the Vedic concept and understanding of God and Man, to the Bhagwat Gita. Man can find God and feel the holiness a place anywhere, if he has touched upon that holiness inside him. If he has been able to reach his higher self and reached God Consciousness or Krsna Consciousness. Otherwise, he will be throwing stones to the Gods standing in Mecca and feeling himself Godly.

Why is India holy? Because here, many holy men walk and many people have risked their lives for Sanatana Dharma. The criterion that we judge the holiness of India by is no different than the criterion that we judge the rest of the world by.

And just to let you know, I am a Hindu.

Maybe. But the rest of the world didn't meet much of that criteria really.

And that's the reason, why Rama, Krsna, Buddha, Mahavir, and many great souls and super-souls chose India for their lilas. Krsna would be Krsna even if he would have appeared in the Mecca?! But there WAS a reason why he chose India after all !!

On an internal level though, if you are in touch with your spirituality, then you are spiritual in a shamshan or a temple. Christ was Christ, when he was in Jerusalem, when he was in India and when he was on the cross.

Namaskar and kind regards.

Namaskar!

If someone is really interested in Indian spirituality and history... , and I am saying "Indian" spirituality, because the pinnacle of spiritual wisdom, both in theory and practice was reached in India, long before a time when your other 'spiritual' places were being roamed by people who were only interested in mms (meat, mating and sex). .. well mostly. Anyone who has gone deeper into the teachings and practices that emanated from the Indian subcontinent and affected the world at large, will be in a position to understand this. He can come to terms with and realize the depth of India's spiritual service. The vast practical knowledge and wisdom of ancient Rishis, sages that is still practical. And I can say it from my own experience.

Indian spirituality - if understood, then good. Otherwise, its just a newspaper headline debate. Nothing more.

We are focusing on the present now. But again, any spiritually, factually and historically sound person would know that the present is a continuation of the past and is affected by the past, just as the future is affected by the present. Present day India has been plagued by 900 years of constant and barbaric muslim invasions and desecration of authentic Indian spiritual culture and almost 200 hundred years of british raj that looted and robbed India of all it could it. Why don't you consider this?

Russia was invaded by Mongols and Tatars for 200-300 years and its solid impact can be felt. Even the many Russians claim that Russia was once Vedic, but only the Indians were able to maintain the Vedic knowledge. And not only knowledge, but practices as well. Doesn't this say something about India to someone?

You can't judge India's spiritual culture, by walking onto a place where someone took some money for giving you a favor. Now centuries of spiritual culture is labeled 'Corrupt'! You would meet a fake sadhu, and you can label India spirituality and Hinduism as "Fake"!!

I would say, it has everything in it!! you can't always judge a person by whether he has carefully set his hairstyle one particular day or not. Just as you can't judge a woman, who hasn't got a great figure to flaunt, but is a beautiful person inside out.

The country is a whole organism, affected by multiple factors. If India has maintained spiritual wisdom through all this, it is a huge feat.

There are people living in India, who are very pious and spiritual, there are people who can initiate you into an authentic branch of spiritual practice and give you totality in life, show you the way to get over the samsara of birth and death - not an ordinary thing. Then there are people who are corrupt and shallow. You can meet the first few or the later. You will pull what you seek towards yourself. Think of Krsna and you will move towards Krsna Consciousness. Think of an all night orgy in a club, you'll have that.

We say Indian Hinduism or Indian spirituality, because it is the place where it emanated from!!! This is a historical fact!!! India or Bharatvarsh is the place from where it emanated and spread worldwide!! India or Bharatvarsh is the place that was the epicenter of the Aryan civilization. It is where it spread to other parts. Not the other way round! the glory of King Vikramaditya's Kindom spread upto Arvasthan or present Arabia. Olden Kaba temple found gold plate hung with poetry singing his glory and his impact on the people there too. I reject the "aryan invasion" theory cooked up by Max Muller and the brit band that places Aryans coming to wild India about some 2000 years b.C. They cooked up the twisted well and ill publicized in the west 'cast system' of India, that was again a result of the mogul dynasty's oppression. The proper varnashram and cast system if understood properly is a good system. Politics twisted it to meet their ends. And the brahmin culture was also deteriorated during a certain period.

When a lot of people in the west come in contact with spirituality, they imagine that everyone in India is supposed to be sitting under the banyan tree meditating and chanting mantras. Then there are the ones who think that all of India is just like those travel documentaries with unpaved roads and naked kids running in the streets. And of course not over-idealizing, I can say on the other hand, that the current ecology, socio-political structure and climate in India is not very favorable. There is corruption. And things are not ideal. There is economic and computer boom in the country. And the present government regime is screwing up the middle class by hiking up prices on just about everything and bringing up industrialists at the cost of common man. There is over-population. Educated manpower. Lots of competition. Job market is also good. India is powerful and nuclear capable. But spirituality hasn't really taken up a back seat either. Because with the ever increasing western influence and keeping pace with modern day fast standards, the natural thirst of the soul also needs to be quenched somewhere in everyone. Some have found their path. Others are still seeking. Yet others are yet to come to the need for the search. But the people get tired and bored running in their rat race.

Not everyone is exactly implying and demonstrating the scriptural descriptions of spirituality in their lives. Not everybody is wearing 'dhotis' and have shaven heads or long sadhu style matted hair locks here. But there is plenty of spirituality in India, that will last this world.

Spirituality is not a circus act. Nor its a play that u can come and see!!! IT simply 'IS'. Like the sun or the moon.

If you come see to India seeking spirituality, but get entangled in other things, then it doesn't make the spirituality or India bad or corrupt.

You have to seek it. Cheap things are readily available everywhere and visible simply. Acts and shows are promoted.

Spirituality is there always and everywhere, because its inside you! And India can help you find it! More than anywhere else. Hinduism helps in showing it to you where and how to find it. You can find it in your own home too. Spirituality is not a bondage. It is freedom of the soul.

Hinduism and its philosophies have important tools and instruments that can help you see it. Groom it. Open it. And it was developed to shining perfection in India. Not in Africa or America. Hinduism, because it is all encompassing. It is like an ocean that has everything in it. Different branches, different lines of philosophies. A way for everyone - personal, impersonal, every kind of yoga, bhakti, sadhna practice, fulfilling spiritual-material life, one complete understanding of Sanatan Dharm.

Of course, you can't label spirituality as exactly India or something else. Its a state of consciousness. But the methods to reach and understand your own spiritual consciousness raising it to divine consciousness with yog were developed to a perfection in this places called India. There IS a depth and vastness to it here.

One may come to India, look deeper inside and be able to see it, or simply get entangled in the upper crust of dirt and hawkers and corruption. You will find everything in India. Seek spirituality, art, culture, music .. you will find that with the deepest roots. Seek something else, you will find that too.

So we say - India this ... India that ... cuz India is this ... and that too!!!

What are YOU looking for (?) - is the question!!

Warm regards.

Excellent answers by everyone, Sephiroth, TY, and others. People who refuse to accept India's divinity are doing so out of jealousy, that's all. What more evidence do these doubters want, aside from the fact that God and his devotees repeatedly choose India, yuga after yuga?

hmm.. jealousy yes possibly.

Another reason that I've seen for opposing forms of spirituality and religious cultures coming from India is some form of orthodoxy.

For example Christian orthodox people or say some Christian protestants or other particular churches see it as a threat to their existence as a sect or something and oppose and condemn it among their followers. Most muslim groups do that too.

Opposition usually comes from radical groups. Who of course have their own narrow minded idea of 'God' and are jealous.

Hi

 

I'm travelling to learn Tantra in India . Looking for long retreats , Gurus , but , unfortunately have no idea where to start . Any suggestions on Gurus , practices i can expect to learn .

Some help?

Thanks

You can contact:

Jodhpur Gurudham at Jodhpur, India:

Mantra Tantra Yantra Vigyan,

Dr. Shrimali Marg,

High Court Colony,

Jodhpur 342001, Rajasthan, India

Telephone: If dialling from

International : 91-291-2432209/2433623 (Please prefix with your International Access code eg. 011 from USA)

Within India : (0291)-2432209/2433623 (0291 is STD code for Jodhpur)

Jodhpur (local) : 2432209/2433623

Fax: If dialling from

International : 91-291-2432010 (Please prefix with your International Access code eg. 011 from USA)

Within India : (0291)-2432010 (0291 is STD code for Jodhpur)

Jodhpur (local) : 2432010

Delhi Gurudham at New Delhi, India :

Mantra Tantra Yantra Vigyan,

306, Kohat Enclave,

Pitampura, New Delhi 110034, India

Telephone: If dialling from

International : 91-11-27352248 (Please prefix with your International Access code eg. 011 from USA)

Within India : (011)-27352248 (011 is STD code for New Delhi)

Delhi (local) : 27352248

TeleFax (Please call to obtain faxtone before faxing) : If dialling from

International : 91-11-27356700 (Please prefix with your International Access code eg. 011 from USA)

Within India : (011)-27356700 (011 is STD code for New Delhi)

Delhi (local) : 27356700

The thing is that Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is at times, hailed way too high by his followers. Something like an ultimate authority on spirituality and God on everything 'Vedic' and no other Guru from anywhere comes even near. Some say that he is the last Guru on this planet for the next 10,000 years to come!!!!!

And if there is anything that contradicts what he said, it is immediately brushed off as "offensive", "poisonous" and as "non-authoritative". The label Bhagwad Gita "as it is" may not be as it really was or as it exactly is!!

And I'll give a valid reason for it, which you can of course reject as per your understanding and preference.

Bhagwad Gita "As it is", as commented by Shri Prabhupada is translated and commented as per Gaudiya Vaishnava philosophy and holds its philosophy as the central idea. But in BG Lord Krsna deeply touches the various branches of sadhna and he doesn't reject them. To understand them, one has to go through them practically. At many places the Lord says to know your higher Self! The Hare Krsna philosophy doesn't accentuate on it. It rejects many other things, what Lord Krsna preaches and explains and recommends, simply rejecting it as something meant for yogis (who are usually materialists and lower than us) or for people with lower intelligence. Only people with lower intelligence worship 'demiGods'. But the same Krsna recommends the worship of gods too!! This is not taken into consideration. Shiva is considered as a mere "DemiGod". But when Krsna worships Shiva this is never mentioned. The Anushasan parva where Krsna hails Lord Shiva and recites his sehestranama is rejected and even considered as made up!! Bhagwatam is considered as amala purana, but when Lord Brahma hails Shiva as controller of the universe in the same Bhagwatam, this is ignored. When Lord Krsna instructs Arjuna (a seasoned yogi) the right way to meditate on Him inside the lotus of Anahat chakra, Shri Prabhupada hasn't got much to say on it. If he had experienced that method, he could comment on it authoritatively too. So the commentary on this particular verse is not that of someone who has actually gone through this experience. Its a literary one in this regard.

Here it is important to note that experiential realization of the said quotes in a scripture or preaching is essential from the point of Yog and Shakt principles.

And this is made clear in the Gita. And this has not been given due regard in the 'As it is' version. The experiential part becomes clear as Arjuna - a seasoned yogi is receiving the preaching and instructions from Lord Krsna himself, the best of all Gurus, but still remains in doubt. Krsna beautifully explains to him the nature of soul, its activity, evolution and duty chapter after chapter. But Arjun still cannot get rid of doubts haunting him completely. And then Krsna gives him the experience into cosmic consciousness by opening his third eye (Agya chakra) and granting divine vision though Shaktipat. And this is Arjun's final and most thorough understanding. After this, words are not really necessary. He has understood Krishna. Divine (Krishna) Consciousness.

We go to Gita class - class after class, repeat the 'shlokas' and come back home to the same mundane existence. Was Shri Parth dvaitin? or Advaitin? A shree vaishnava or a Gaudiya Vaishnava? or was he a Shiava? He worshipped Shiva too. It won't really matter. What really mattered was his experiential realization of the Gita, of Krsna.

Similarly in another place in Gita, when Lord Krsna instructs on going to a clean and quite place for the practice of Yog, Shri Prabhupada explains it as going to a pilgrimage like Vrindavana... yogis who have gone into the depths of their souls in seclusion and experienced the sound of naad understand this differently and deeply. That it is not a dire necessity to roam in a pilgrimage to experience this. Of course the spiritual vibrations and general atmosphere in pilgrimage place support spirituality and religiousness.

And yes many highly evolved yogis have had very 'personal' experiences with the divine, even though some of their practices maybe termed as 'impersonal'.

So Shri Prabhupada ji's translation and commentary IS colored by his faith in his line of philosophy. This cannot be denied.

Bhagwad Gita "as it is" can be commented upon and fully understood by a person who stands at the level of Arjuna. One who has gained mastery in all different branches of sadhna and not one line of philosophy. One who has achieved shiddis and gone beyond them. One who has risen above the limitations of his physical body and can manipulate and understand the five elements NOT in Theory or preaching, but in practical terms.

Of course I do understand, that since your sadhna is different than the Vedic sadhna methods, you may simply not accept this view.

Needless to say that bhakti is very essential. And it is an essential part in most branches of Vedic sadhna. But you can't reject yogic, tantra and mantra sadhnas. And no this is not doing asanas in health spas or something 'new age' selling.

Bhagwat Gita can fully be understood from an in-depth practical understanding of the Vedic branches and spiritual practices. If Bhagwat Gita is understood in totality one will not reject Shakta and Shiava philosophy or Vedic sadhnas, but come to their combined understanding being able to rise above the differences. And one can rise above the difference only by a thorough understanding of the different schools in practice and understanding the underlying tattva. And God and tattva cannot be fully grasped by reading alone. This is a fact repeated by sages over the ages.

Bhaktivedanta Swami did a great service by bringing the Gita and gaudiya Vaishnavism to the west. So did his God brothers. Just as Shri Vivekananda introduced the west to Indian spiritual culture and the message of Gita more than half a century before that and Shri Yogananda brought the immortal science of Kriya yog to the west before that. The positive influence they brought into thousands of lives in the west is both revolutionary and evolutionary.

Regards.

I'm not a Vaishnava (I'm a Shakta), but that's how I believed things when I was a Vaishnava. Vaishnavism is based on their Puranas, as is Shaivism (for some parts). So to find evidence for anything Vaishnava, you would have to look at their sattvika puranas. But, you're right; Vaishnavism has a more dogmatic approach while Shaivism and Shaktism have a more experiential approach (with Shaktism being 99.9% experiential). Sometimes, dogma is good and sometimes experience is good.

I do agree with you Arjuna Haridas ji.

do you think so? i think vaishnavas focus heavily on puranas- vishnu and bahagavat purana etc...not as much on vedantic philosophy, if not hardly it all.

vedantic philosophy it is also based on realization and yoga dont you agree?

Yes. But by Vedanta I meant was more scriptural discussion and proving points and analysis. Yes Yoga and Vedantic philosophy IS based based on realization. But as many schools of Vedantism discuss these realizations of past sages, and previously realized facts. They do not always base this on their own realizations of these facts and experiences. For example, in Yoga or Tantra, a Guru can't just quote scriptures and be a Guru and guide a disciple through the complexities of sadhna without himself fully achieving siddhi in a particular sadhna. Practical experience and sadhna is more stressed in yog and tantra. One may not be able to simply achieve success by reading books in yogmarg.

Few Vaishnavas realize that Krishna is the equivalent to Shiva of Shaivism and that Radha is equivalent to Devi of Shaktism. Krishna is Brahman and Radha is Shakti; both are equal and are two aspects of the Divine. The Vaishnava knows this, but unfortunately the Vaishnava associated the Supreme Lord Krishna as the equal with Vishnu. In reality, it's more like:

 

Bhagavan Krishna

 

 

Radharani

Devi

Durga

Kali

etc.

 

Brahma

Vishnu

Matsya

Kurma

Varaha

etc.

Shiva

Krishna (Brahman) incarnates as the Trimurti Who in turn incarnate as Matsya, etc.

 

Radha (Shakti) incarnates as Devi Who in turn incarnates as Durga Maa, Dasmahavidyas, etc.

 

This is why Vaishnavism IS Shaivism and the two ARE Shaktism. It is because the 3 sects are just one, but they give different names to Brahman-Shakti, the Supreme Divine. Unfortunately, only the Smartas realize this and so we have blatent sectarianism between Vaishnavas and Shaivas that manifest themselves in the various denominations of the two religions.

Can we have some Vedic interpretations (of this realization) of "Radha"? Not the Gaudiya interpretation of Radha.

On the other hand I feel, that a lot of Vaishnava shcools are not really based on realizations as in yoga and tantra but more in Vedantic philosophy.

The realization is focused more on staunch belief in the particular line of philosophy that the sadhak is following, rather than the resulting realization from

austerity and practice of such a philosophy. I'm don't mean to say here that the vaishnavas don't have realization. Just most sampradayik preachings focus

more on Vedantic understanding.

In the list of God positioning posted above 'Krsna' to 'Shiva' on top in most Shaiva philosophies and understanding, where Krsna appears in dwapara yuga as an avatara. And as per Shaiva scriptures Shiva manifests himself into Brahma Vishnu and Mahesh working through his various potencies and shakti Devi.

Thanks.

Dear friends

Can any one help me with information about this.In Robert svoboda's

"THE LAW OF KARMA" book ..I read about a south indian shiva temple on

a mountain where females are not allowed and males too go there to

worship only one day in the year..i.e. on maha shivaratri day. Can any

one throw some light on this please?

In the garbha greha of Shri Mahakaleshwara temple in Ujjain, women are not allowed during the maharudraabhishekam in the morning in which men wear red dhotis. After than abhishekam women can come inside. And usually women visit the temple. But only during this particular ceremony they are not allowed. I have been a part of this abhishek during Shivratri with my Gurudev.

The ancient Shiva temple of Bhojpur where queen Kunti used to worship Lord Shiva is open from sunrise till sunset. No one dares to stay after sunset there ever. Its situated in a secluded area high atop a small hill. The Shivalinga is 21 feet. And it used to come upto Kunti's chest level when she used to offer sacred water. Half of the Shivalinga is under ground other part is above it. Still its too high for normal people of our age and there are stairs to reach up. There is no man woman restriction there.

Namah Shivaya!!

Is there a branch of philosophy in the Vedas called "mayavad" or is it a made up Hare Krsna term like "karmi"? just a question..!

the same krishna in the same mahabharata quotes the imp of shiva in anushasana parva and even constructs shivasahasranama....and the same vishnu offers his lotus eyes to shiva and gets the name padmaksha......

So true Aditya ji.

But that part is always ignored sadly. Its a mockery when you accept one thing said by the Lord at one place, but totally ignore when He Himself speaks on another occasion. As Shri Chaitanya said "In this age of hypocrisy ... "

All Vedic literature agrees

that Krsna is the source of Brahma, Siva and all other demigods.

When Prabhupada (PBUH), says " .. all other DEMIGODS like SHIVA..." doesn't he contradict both Lord Shiva and Krsna? And Lord Shiva and Krsna are a much much higher authority than Prabhupada!! Would you agree??

just because vishnu is acciated with savior type qualities should not make vishnu fake. vishnu/krishna like i said were originally associated with upanishadic philosophy which sees them as infinite and formless. the idea of vishnu incarnating was meant to show how the formless comes to form to put human biengs into the right path but during the gupta era many many puranas were written which focus of human aspect of vishnu/krishna which is more of what hindus today follow then the philosophy.

 

this is why vaishnavas are more fussy then shaivas because shaivas are closer to the original upanishadic philosophy ( but they also follow some puranas like shiva puranas) and vaishnavas today focus heavily on puranas (not so much upanishads), and half of these puranas claim vishnu is supreme and this and that. if they had followed the upanishads then they would understand that vishnu/shiva are one but because vaishnavas follow the puranas, whic claim vishnu is supreme they don't understand the oness of the two.

Nice Comment bandhu !

Namah Shivaya!!

Namah Shivaya!!

In Valimiki Ramayan, it is written that Janak found a girl child while ploughing field and he named her Sita. This means that Janak was not the biological father of Sita. Then, whose child was she? How did she come to be inside Earth?

The story of Ravana goes like this - A girl once was born to Ravana. But as it was in her horoscope, that Ravan would develop infatuation for the girl as soon as he sees her face. So Ravan asked the girl to be buried in a pot far away from his land. This girl was Sita. And after a couple of days she was found by Raja Janak while ploughing the land during the famous famine on the advice of his priests. After many years during Sita swayamvara groom choosing ceremony, Ravan who had come to be a potential groom for her, upon seeing her got infatuated with her beauty. There is a story of how and why she was born to the half Brahmin, half demon powerful King Ravan, but I can't remember it right now.

The point I'm trying to make is that Hindus are saying that India is the ONLY holy land on Earth. I'm not denying that India is holy, I'm just saying that India isn't the ONLY holy land (for the umpteenth time). Why is India holy but my land isn't? I'm a Hindu, also, correct? And I pray in my own home.

 

But what does land have to do with anything? If I pray here or there, does it really matter? Every atom has the Supreme residing in it, and the same for every soul. Since this makes every atom and soul a Divine Abode for the Divine Brahma-Shakti, then this makes every atom and soul sacred and holy, and not just the atoms that make up the land called "India".

 

 

Only after learning about the philosophy of others' from their perspective can a man truly say that he follows Sanatana Dharma.

From a Shakta perspective, every atom has Godly presence in it. And thus can be considered holy. (or unholy if you don't believe in it.)

Why is India considered holy or holier than other places is the question.

It is due to the quality and quantity of holy vibrations that it has absorbed, has been reflecting through millions of years is what makes it holy and holier than most other places. When a spiritually awakened illumined soul, master of high order performs his tapas in a place, the place, its atoms absorb the subtle spiritual vibrations that definitely affect the gross physical and subtle planes. And a person visiting such place can feel it. This also affects the lives of people coming in contact with it. India has been the land of such illumined masters of the highest orders through ages, who have blessed this land with their presence, powers, miracles and so on, evoking Godly consciousness.

God is everywhere. According to this logic, if he is in a temple, he is on a busy road too!!! Since he is present in every atom. Then why is a temple more holy than a busy road? The answer is obvious. isn't it? Although the general laws of karma would apply to you just as on the road as in a temple. But some highly holy areas even neutralize that to a good extent. And we may even witness something what we call as a miracle.

There have been various avatars, incarnations of highly evolved souls / spiritual masters who came here on special spiritual missions, who were able to change and mould the masses and time as per higher motives in harmony with the higher mahashakti.

Everything is naturally in tune with the state of being holy or being capable of a holy harmony in India. The environment, people, surroundings, vibrations support it readily. Every land has its own aura and vibrations. You naturally feel calm and contented in one place and agitated and upset in another without an obvious reason.

Spiritual knowledge and realization of the highest order, the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Rishis, Yogis, Guru paramparas, the Himalayas, the Gods and Goddesses manifesting themselves in various forms and ways, the holy rivers, the festivals, and - the ability of the common man in India to recognize the highest soul and appreciate it while its still there in its particular manifestation. All this makes India holy and holier than say your backyard!!

Why did St. Kabir, Goswami Tulsidas, Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Rishi Vashishtha, Vishwamitra, Lord Shri Krsna, Lord Ramachandra, Gautam Buddha, Mahavir, and many many others appear in Bharatvarsha?? Not in China or Israel? This is the question. Why did they chose India? This is the question. Jesus appeared in the west. And what they did with him? He preached higher spiritual philosophy to them. In return they crucified him!!! Socrates was given poison. But people in India worshipped Rama, they worshipped Lord Krsna in their lifetimes!!! They recognized and worshipped them. Certainly India is blessed. And it is holy. Despite the present industrialization and commercialization, even of the religious organizations. The subtle spiritual vibrations still hold India. And even today it is capable of guiding the whole world in spirituality, in the highest fields of mantra, tantra, philosophy, yog and various Vedic branches of knowledge.

Of course one may develop spiritual insight and progress spiritually worshipping and practicing yoga in the seclusion of his own home. He doesn't necessarily have to climb the Himalayas for that. He can contact and experience God communion in his own room, IF he has the right Guru, the right technique, unflinching bhakti, devotion and attitude towards it.

If you have the right knowledge and method, the Brahma shakti present in every atom of this universe will answer your call, no matter where you are. THEN it doesn't really matter. But you will have to develop and 'earn' that level of spiritual shakti. And as shakti is earned, it is also wasted. Anyone who is serious about mantra yoga, or any form of yoga knows this. The spiritual vibrations of a holy place helps sustain this energy level and helps it grow. You can do that on your own. With triple the effort. Just like a Guru helps a disciple with his shakti to progress faster. The disciple can keep trying on his own too. That's his choice.

And yes of course the west has also produced its own saints who have experienced God communion and have blessed the people with their presence, Godly vibrations and miracles. Although, the level of in-depth study and spiritual development methods were developed and have been practiced in India is unparalleled anywhere in the world.

But coming in touch with the spiritual "hot spots" or hubs emanating spiritual vibrations through ages, will render its own unparalleled benefits and blessings. That's why Hindus say India is the only place that has this level of spiritual depth and development in all areas, even though there are good spiritual places in other countries too and places that have beautiful and healthy spiritual natural environments.

Best regards.

Thats a very nice article. But ironically, it doesn't mention something important. It needs to mention how many decibels of sound a human ear has to suffer in a three hour ear piercing kirtana!!! The hard hitting cymbals, khartals, loud drums and shouting by many many people for hours, what impact it has on our ear drums? Will Lord hari still hear our heart's voice if we sang his name in sweet melodious voice, but softly? What if we meditated in our hearts on him as he tells Arjuna to do?

this is what i meant when i said its a shame that people havent grasped vedism. they are one the vedic text say all a part of supreme reality. they are just different forms.vishnu is infinite and so is shiva. it doesnt take a scientist to grasp this concept.

Well said. But unless we differentiate and put my God over your God, how will the small sets survive?

How can we be a fool..............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What do you think of it, Hajmola Candy?

These are not easily available.

Otherwise why should the Japanase team few daceades back returned back with no conclusion on these stuffs???

Lol !