happened to read several article on Lord Siva and Vishnu
In the analysis of Shaivism is totally wrong and onesided. You cant view Lord Siva thru bhagavatham. Bhagavatham is a collection of stories. it may be noted that Bhagavatham has to be used when one chooses to go deeply into Vaishnavism.
The Saiva Philosophy is the choicest product of the Dravidian intellect. It is the most elaborate, influential and undoubtedly the most intrisically valuable of all religions of India. It is peculiarly the South Indian and Tamil Religion . - (Dr.G.U. Pope)
Please read the research of Arthur Avalon (Sir John Woodroffe) on Saktham worship - which highlights Siva-Sakthi is the ultimate supreme lords worshiped very long back.
Infact in addition to Vedas - which does not directly speak about Siva or Sakthi and speaks about Rudras only, please look into Saiva Aagamas which is largely ignored and few of them got translated to french people long back - you may find these info. in the web.
There is nowhere in ancient history about any trace of Vaishnavism, ancient most discoveries at Indus valley civilisation highlighted/unearthed Siva Worship prevelent at the time.
There is no history about "Namam" (Three vertical lines) used by Vaishnavites, it is a recent phenomenon.
There is no reference of goddess Raadha in Bhagavatham - pl enlighten me if you find it anywhere.
Also note the Guru of lord Rama is Vasista - who is a Siva devotee (vasista kumbothbava gowthamarya muneendhra devaarchitha sekaraya - siva panchatchara stothram)
Unlike Saivism, there is no worthy philosophical work in Vaishnavism except the Bhagavath gita - which is given by Vyasa only (Vyasa told Bharatham Story in which Sanjaya tells Dhrudhrashtra on what Krishna tells to Arjuna), it is ultimately the knowledge of Vyasa only - if u take it as a Story. whereas u can find Tirumandhiram in Tamil and various Sidhdhas have given various tantric and mantric and yogic and philosiphical secrets.
Even in that - Arjuna worshiped Shiva for Pasupathasthra
Lord Krishna's temple in Dwaraka - has got the Goddess (parvathi - worshiped by Krishna) temple in it.
In almost all avatars Lord Vishnu worshiped Shiva, infact as per puranas almost all avatars of Lord Vishnu ended by Lord Shiva only.
The Sudarsana Chakram in the hand of Vishnu is gifted by Lord Shiva after Vishnu offered one of His eyes to lord Shiva (Lord Shiva created Sudarsan Chakra by drawing its picture on water and land thru his toe to kill Jalandharasura).
Narasimha - by Sarabeswarar
Vamana - Sattanatha
Krisna - by Dhurvasa Rishi (devotee of lord Shiva) etc.
The temple purana of Tiruvarur in Tamilnadu says the Shiva linga worshiped by Vishnu is kept there
In Vaitheeswaran koil Lord Ram worshiped Shiva
In Kasi Viswanath was worshiped by Lord Vishnu (Vageesa Vishnu Sura Sevitha Patha Peetam - Kasi vishwanathashtakam)
Krishnua or Lord Ram are all human lives idolised subsequently because of the quality and the skills they portrayed.
Krishna's quality can be obtained by anybody who practices Ashtanga Yoga - first understand Ashtanga Yoga and then people may comment - Please refer to Patanjaly Yoga Suktham. Also the Arthur Avalons "Serpent Power" and the English translation of St.Tirumoolars "Tirumanthiram".
Also, Lookinto the Mahabharatham - given by Vyasa
St.Vyasasa gave birth to Dhrutharasthra and Pandu
St Vyasa was a vishnu worshiper - so tried to highlight Vishnu in all possible ways - Pl go thru the history behind "Vyasashtagam" to know how he was corrected.
Why dont you have a look into the Uthara Ramayana what sort of divine quality u see.
The Vedas talk only about Rudra - and moreover the Vedas are brough into India by the Iranian (Aryan)invaders, the Saiva Worship was prevelent even before the Vedic Period, the Vedas principally worships Agni, Vayu, Prithvi, Appu, Sun, Moon etc.
Seeing the supremacy of the Prevelant Shaivist philosophy in the Indian subcontinent, the invaders penetrated into the existing system while obsorbing most of the prevelent system- thats how the present day Hinduism was born. I think u dont want to go deep into the reality and accept the Historical findings. Have a look into the following research reports.
geocities.com/shivaperuman/origin.html
dlshq.org/download/lordsiva.htm
Also Veda Vyasa having uttered that Vishnu is supreme, was paralysed and prayed for Vishnu who corrected his mistakes and asked him to worship Shiva - there came Vyasaashtakam - sung by 'Veda" Vyasa himself.
Also, after conquering Mahabharath war - Krishna knowing the sins committed by killing thousands of lives insisted all the pandavas to worship Shiva at Ketharnath
Lord Rama worshiped Shiva to get rid of the sins committed by him in Ravana Samharam.
All Vedas worshiped Lord Shiva - Please refer to the Sthala puranam of Vedaranyam in Tamilnadu.
On Radha
Most of the stories attibuted to Krishna are pure imagination by staunch poetic devotees. While we need respect the bhakthi involved u cant give importance as if they were part of Srimad Bhagavatham. There is no other source except bhagavatham to know as to what
happened in Krishnavatharam. Please refer the "Krishna the man and his philosphy" by Osho.
The Bhagavath Gita
In a way, the Gita is collection of philosphy by Vyasa. Request you to note while it is the most published philosophical work because it was part of the Aryan invaders work, while there are other Great philosophical master pieces like -
Patanjali Yoga Suktham and
Saiva Aagamams - in Sanskrit,
Thirumandiram - by St Tirummolar - Tamil
Siddhar Paadalgal - Tamil
Thevaram and Thiruvasakam - Tamil
and many more
I request you have you ever had a chance of looking into the following
1. Research done in Indus Valley Civilisation
2. Kashmiri Saivm
3. Tantric and Mantric researc done by Sir John Woodroffe
4. Aryan Invasion in India and its impact in Indian philosophy
But please have a look into the life these great scholars of recent time
Sri Bhagwan Ramana Maharishi
Sri Bhagwan Ramalinga Adigal
Srimad Pamban Swamigal
Sri Sivanandha
I would like to clarify the following;
The Saiva Philosophy is the choicest product of the Dravidian intellect. It is the most elaborate, influential and undoubtedly the most intrisically valuable of all religions of India. It is peculiarly the South Indian and Tamil Religion . - (Dr.G.U. Pope)
While I am not a scholar in Saiva philosphy. But very minimum knowledge in Ancient Indian History and the Aryan theory and Saiva sidhantha knowledge itself suffice to conclude that what you have mentioned that "Shiva is next only to Krishna" is wrong.
Also, the purpose of stories are to impart a strong bhakthi in the devotees mind, one should go deep in his soul to seek the truth, after a period of time there will be no need for the form to worship, thats y u can find Siva being represented by Siva Lingam - a Roop(a)roopa form - u can attribute it either to a form or a non-form, and is denoted as "unseen and unfathomable light (Arutperunjyothi) - Please refer to Thiruvannamalai/Tiruvannamalai Temple History - Sthalapuranam.
A small quote from Thirumanthiram (translated with my little knowledge)
Seevan enna Sivan enna Verilai
Seevanar Sivanaarai Arigilar
Seevanar Sivanaarai Arindhapin
Seevanar Sivanai Vittiruppare
Translate
There is no dual thinks like - soul and Siva
The soul does not know Siva
The moment the soul knows what is Siva
Then there is no soul - only Siva exists
The word (seevan - represent Soul - u can simply see that it orinated and just an extended prounciation of Sivan)
At last
My sincere namaskars and I am amazed at the pool of knowledge you peopele show case in Vedic philosophy. And I request you to sincerely look into the untouched portion of Aagamas and Saiva and Saktha philosophy in Ancient India and the Saiva Siddhantas. I am sure that you will be benefitted a lot like Sir John Woodroffe and many others. I was bit disappointed when I read Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code" He stopped his research with China and did not cross over to India. Kindly dont stop your research with a portion of sanskript Vaishnavist scriptures alone if you are a seeker.
If you like to worship lord Vishnu or Krishna - well and good - but get meditate and take permision from Lord Vishnu before u utter anything low about lord Shiva.
Thanks & regards
