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vmsunder

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  1. One among many verses from Abhirami Andhaathi giving same meaning Ondrai Arumbi palavai virindhu ivvulengemai Nindraal anaithaiyum neengi nirpaal -endhan nenjin ulle pondraathu nindru poligindrava - ipporularvaar andru aalilaiyul thuyindra pemmanum em ayyanume She manifests into a One form and then takes many and pervades the whole universe, and yet she stand away from them all, but she took abode in my mind as a golden light - the meaning/secret of this is known only to the god who slept on Banyan tree leave (lord Krishna - vishnu) and our beloved Shiva. Vishnu - is considered as the form of Goddess - ref: Umaiyalal Hariyillai - Thevaram. and also ref: Lord Dharma Saastha - son of Shiva and Vishnu. So, Vishnu knows because it is her form only. Shiva knows because Shiva Shakthi is Abedham (No dual). SriMatre Namaha Vmsunder
  2. Thanks. Bhakthi is such a beautiful yogic path that makes one love all, if you and me and everything exist on the universe today it is because of LOVE. It is ultimate love that protect us all. I am staunch devotee of the ParaaSakthi - I know I am a true devotee - I know what I should do to get out of this samsara Saakar. And I worship her, as i told earlier, as who in the form of Mother protect us all, who is in form and also form less, and who is beyond the reach of world-gunas-anything and everything: Ekha Roopini, Bahu Roopini, Aroopa - Lokhadheetha - Gunaadheetha - Sarvaadheeta - SivaSakthiyaikya Roopini - Sri Lalitha Parameswari Here, there is no confinement, no form, no particular name - she is worshiped as Supreme Love Yaa Dhevi Sarva Bhoodeshu Maatru Roopena Samsthitha - Namasthasyai Namasthasyai Namasthasyai - Namo Namaha
  3. Yes Bhathi is also called as Bhakthi Yoga - it teaches compassion. It is the easiest path when it is practiced with full of love and ahimsa. It never speaks low of the other.
  4. Hey, just look at all your story deities they all become deities by just doing some magics. Nothing they did other than magics. The great philosophies are available in abundance in Brahma Sutras, Upanishads, Aagamas, Patanjali Yoga Sutras, Thirumanthiram etc not only in Bhagavad Gita. God is beyond stories, beyond human, is god of the whole universe not only that of this earth. He cant be confined to few stories and just to one form. On your avataar stories, where are they now, when they can be present while Dhryothanas and Kamsas existed why not now, the world has become so worst now than those times. On their retaining their body - u yourself agree that their forms are mayic creation - then y do u worship maya - the name Krsna means black - that is the body complextion of lord krishna - how come u say that will engulf you when u say that - again u say the form are manifestations thru maya - where are you. Now some people removed Parasurama from ther 10 avataar list and added budhdha in his place - this speaks much about how this list of avataars are created. The Name Rama is that of Sakthi -u can see this name in Sri Lalitha Sahasranamam - this name was given to Dhasarathas son by Saint Vasishta - u please refer Ramayan - this name was not created only - was an existing one. The name of Shakthi- Rama is so powerful mantra thats y vashishta gave that name to Rama. There is a saying that even the Rishi Valmiki did not know anything and was asked to chant Rama which gave him such scholarly knowledge to write the epic. So he got the power not by worshiping story deities but by chanting a Mantra. Ramayan was written as a story so that ordinary people will chant the mantra Rama unknowingly by reading/hearing the story. Here the story is not important but the mantra Rama - chanting it is called Japa. On sri Ramakrishna, Thirumoolar, Bhagwan Ramana Maharishi, Sivananda etc - I requested the sincere seekers to look into their preachings which goes much beyond these stories. I dont have any problem with anybody, My message was only for some seekers who really want to grow beyond stories thats it. I salute unto the goddess who in the form of Mother protect us all, who is in form and also form less, and who is beyond the reach of world-gunas-anything and everything: Ekha Roopini, Bahu Roopini, Aroopa - Lokhadheetha - Gunaadheetha - Sarvaadheeta - SivaSakthiyaikya Roopini - Sri Lalitha Parameswari -as goes by Lalitha Sahasranaamam given to Agasthiya by Sri Hayagreeva.
  5. some people seems to be so arrogant and it shows in their replies. They call all others views as third rated but the fact is otherwise. Stories on god, avatars, puranas etc all are to pass great values, virtues and morals to ordinary people. To make ordinary ppl listen to those great message filled puranas they served prasadams in temple - so when people come to temple - they first make them listen to those stories and then serve prasadas - it is in a way forcibly passing great values to them. For common and ordinary people who cant perceive great gnanas, stories were cobbled and passed on - that was infact primary level, by listening to those puranas he will be somewhere influenced to emulate atleast few good qualities and reach higher levels in subsequent births so that he can seek the next level of spiritual growth - that is Dheekshas, tapas, yoga etc. Dheekshas, Tapas, Raja, Hatha and Kriya Yogas are for people who seek it from a master by selfless service for decades. It is utter foolishness to confine god to just one avatar, nobody including all these avataar deities could retain their body and live with us eternally that clearly shows that god is above them all - they just reflected few qualities of greater soul that is all. Like sunlight reflected in bubbles. Just ignore these arrogant people who refuse to come out of stories and think that god only lives in stories. Doing few worldly magic, few sidhdhies wont make a person god, let him try to live eternally with us and proove - nobody has done it so far except some like Ramana Maharishi, Saint Vallalar, Bhagwan Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Swamy Sivananda, they went beyond these story mongers. For a sincere seeker who all have crossed the story level sincerely practice Japa, Tapas and Yoga for a real spiritual growth.
  6. When u sleep, u dont have any proof of your existence ever untill u wake up, this wake up stage does not have any proof when u r asleep, while in dream u believe that the dream is real. So, one avasta disprooves the existence of the other two, Fact remains the same whatever be the stage of avasta, like drama and settings may change but the stage remains. Just read Ramana Maharishis discourses that may give u clarity. On nature - God is called, infact in Vedas worship god as five elements of nature, Shiva is worshipped as Five elements of nature. so, nature is God, nature is Shiva. To negate Shiva is like nagating our Soul, for Jiva and Shiva are not dual. Ones life,soul is Siva only. The word Jeeva has come from Siva only. "Seevan enna sivan enna verilai, seevanaar sivanarai arigilar, Seevanar sivanaarai aridhapin, seevanaar sivanai vittiruppare" Thus goes one Siddhars verse, meaning - Soul (seevan in Tamil) and Sivan are not two different things, the maya covering the soul hides the light of the soul, once the maya is conquered, there is no duality - only the soul is seen thru the sheath of Maya - our body-mind all becomes Shiva then. Just ask Who You are, are you the body, look at the statement Ram passed away, if Ram is the body, where is the question of passing away, if not, then who has passed away - soul. So, the name Ram is not for the body but for the soul living in it. It takes several births and carries innumerable names, it is neither male nor female - Ardhanaree (Siva). It is everything. Jivan is Sivan only Sivoham Sivoham
  7. Dear Pujarie 0 I have read some of your posts, first of all my sincere namaskars to you, you have been worshipping the divine mother since the age of 17 i read somewhere, how blessed you are, choosen by the divine mother of all at such an young age is so great. I tell you it doesnot come that easily to worship mother, to follow Shaaktham one should have done crores crores of years of penance as stated in abhirami andhaathi - u r one such great soul i believe - thanks On your question on other gods - as all gods are her form when she align with Gunas - Guna sahitha Lalitha Parameswari, while in her Nirguna form she is alone - All gods in their subtle soul level are just a different form the great mother in a given Guna sambandham (set imposed qualities) those are her own creation. Thats why you can see all god worship, adores and take shelter under her feet. It is natural. So, one can worship all gods with pure awareness that they are all manifestation of our supreme divine mother only - who has taken such and such form for the very purpose of blessing us with such qualities those deities possess. Thanks & regards VmSunder
  8. This is Sheethala Devi - the goddess who punishes with and also removes miseries, chicken pox etc. Praying unto this god will help in gettind rid of chicken pox and related deseases. Sheethalethvam Jagan Maatha - Sheethalethvam jagath Pitha Sheethalethvam jagadhaathri - Shethalaayai Namo Namaha Thanks & regards VmSunder
  9. "Manidharum Dhevarum Maaya Munivarum vandhu Senni Kunitharum Sevadic Komalame - Kondrai Vaar Sadaimel Panitharum Thingalum Pambum Bageeradhiyum padaitha Punidharum neeyum en pundhi ennalum Porundhugave" Humans, Gods, Mystic Saints all come and bow their head under your feet Oh my sweet maa, You and the one who wears the flowers, River and crescent on His head- your husband, both be always set in my heart. Our beloved mother is god of all - the one in ignorance - humans, the one in bliss - Devas(Demi Gods), the one who conquered both and reached supreme knowledge the Saints all come and bow their head unto her feet. She is mystic to saints who conquered maaya even. Please refer Lalitha sahasranamam "Lokaadheetha, Gunaadheetha, Sarvaadheetha, Samaathmika" - She is beyond the reach of worldly power, mind power, and any other power, and she is present in everysoul equally" She is uncomprehendable. So let us all bow our head to Her beautiful feet with the same prayer which Abhirami Pattar begged for - Siva Shakthi's supreme awareness in our poor souls. She is already there (pl ref "Samaathmika")- we need to be aware of it - that is possible only thru her blessings. Thanks & Regards VmSunder
  10. "Arindhen evarum ariyaa maraiyai - arindhukondu serindhen unadhu thiruvadikke - thiruve veruvip pirindhen nin anbar perumai ennadha karama nenjal - arindhe vizhum naragukku uravaaya manidharaiye" "Learned the scripture that is not known to anybody - by knowing it concluded that your foot is the supreme of all - Oh devi i am now scared of those who dont respect your devotees - by doing which they belong to the cruelest hell of all" Saktham is the best of all the form of worship. This is known and practiced most secretly for the simple reason that it is the most sacred form of worship. Hence, it is not known to the majority of the spiritual world, so not available in vedas too, so abhirami pattar says he learned the veda which was not at all available to others, which is not available in the four vedas on which all the other worship methods are based upon, it must be noted that the term Veda (marai) used by abhirami pattar refers not to the four vedas that we all know, he himself clarifies it by his words 'this veda is not at all known to anybody(arindhen evarum ariya maraiyai). There ends viewing and measuring of Saktha margam with (known) vedic eyes. This is beyond the reach of known vedas. Abhirami pattar thus continues, "Upon gaining that knowledge which is not known to anybody, I surrendered unto your feet, Oh great goddess, devi, because of dawning of supreme knowledge i found that you are the only truth, only goal, so, now i keep myself away from thos other ignorant people who do not know the greatness of your devotees, because of which they are are liable to end in hell, I am scared of them" Here, abhirami pattar declares that saktham is the most supreme and whoever follows saktham method need to be worshiped and respected, others, whoever he may be, whatever may be his method of worship will end up in hell if he is not respecting a Saktha devotee. So he further says he is not interested in going to them and explaining about saktha method - better keep off from them - keep distance - get scared of those people who dont respect saktham. Saktha devotee need not go and explain to others, it shows, it by itself, because it is supreme will make all others respect him, if someone is found not respecting, leave alone insulting, he/she is doing due to his past accumulated sins, uncleasable sins which he mounted in his millions of births in the past, so dont go near them, this is what abhirami pattar suggests to the fellow saktha devotees.
  11. Thunaiyum thozhum theivamum petra thaayum- suruthikalin panaiyum kozhunthum padhi konda verum - pani malar poonkanaiyum karuppuch chialaiyum - men paasaankusamum kaiyil anaiyum thiripura sundari aavadhu arinthaname If we think deeply we can conclude if at all we live today it is because of our mothers selfless love - she took care of us when we were not even able to talk, even when we were in her womb, she took care of us did so much service to us when as a child we gave all sort of troubles not allowing her to eat, sleep etc - she ignored all and loved us so much - because of which we live today. All living being almost exist surely because of its mothers unconditional love - which made life survival possible - sometime even fighting with the father - the male who fathered it - see pussy, lioness etc. Here Abhirami pattar tells that he realised that Abhirami is with him as his wife, as his beloved goddess and as his mother. And now he now find the meaning of the vedas - the vedas in different ways only praises her in the beginning in its explanations - that is puranas, and in its conclusions - vedantas - the Upanishads, though they talk many differnt things - but in effect its all talking about her and Her only. By the term 'pathi konda verum' he refers that the Vedas have come from Her Husband (pathi) Lord Shiva only. So now he realises that wherever he could find unconditional love and supreme knowledge - it is infact She the Great Goddess Abhirami he is seeing. To continue..
  12. Udhikkindra senkathir uchith thilagam - unarvudaiyor madhikkindra maanikkam mathulam pothu - malarkamalai thuthikkindra minkodi menkadi kunkuma thoyam enna - vidhikkindra meni abhirami endhan vizhuthunaiye Raising sun is thilak on her forehead, Self realised soles alone know and rever the greatnes of her - not all know her greatness, she is so fair and sweet like a flower, lightening is her form and kumkum like fairness is her complexion, She is my only saviour - she alone is my saviour. This poem give inputs on how to meditate, who can meditate etc, generally, all Male gods are supposed to be meditated from foot to head, whereas Goddess to be meditated from Head to toe, thats why the very first song starts from the thilak on her forehead, also it may be noted that As per Saiva Aagama rahasyas the Sakthi thathvam is felt at the 1000 petalled lotus at our head and then it merges with Siva thathvam. So the slokam, this blissful verse just descending from the supreme consciousness direcly to bless us all, directly from the Goddess, it may be noted that the Abhirami andhathi was given by Abhirami pattar when he was in the supreme state of Dhuriayaatheetham (as called in yoga saastras). The male gods are meditated from foot to head, pl refer the verses on Ganapathi by Avvaiyar (ancient women saint who lived 2000 years ago) it starts as 'Seethak kalaba senthaamarai poom patha silambu pala isai paada' and one on Lord muruga starts as 'Sashtiyai nokka sarahana bavanaar sishtaruk udhavum senkathir velon Paadham irandil panmani chathangai pala isai pada' ---- to continue
  13. Here is my humble presentation of Abhiraami Andhaathi for those who seeks truth and believes that all are creation of God. So, when creation comes the creator is obvious - the Mother. Lalitha Sahasranamam given by Lord Hayagreeva thus starts with the first namaavali as Om Sree Matha To know more detail about Abhiraami andhathi - please go thru the details given below; Now the first verse Thaaramar kondraiyum shenbaga maalaiyum saathum thillai oorar thampagaththu umai maindhane - ulagezhum petra seer abhirami andhaathi eppodhum en sindhaiyulle - kaaramar meni ganapathiye nirka katturaiye Oh lord, the one who wears the dew filled flowers, oh the son of the uma, this verse of abhiraami andhathi is a shower of bliss meant for all the worlds, oh ganapathi let it stay for ever - seek your blessings - will continue Many years ago in South India there was one devotee of Goddess Abirami called Subramanian in Tirukkadaiyur, Tamilnadu. He had deep devotion towards the Mother, indulging in doing Pooja i.e., showering of flowers at the feet of others imagining that they are the goddess of Abirami. The deep love he had on this goddess made him to assume the other living females are none but goddess Abirami. One day King Saraboji visited the temple when devotee Subramanian was meditating about Goddess Abirami. The king was provoked seeing subramani’s ignorance about the king’s arrival. The king asked who that fellow was. One man told that he was mad thinking the other ladies as Amman and used to shower flowers on them. The priest told no! He was a deep devotee of Goddess Abirami. The king wanted to test who he is. So he asked Subramanian whether today is new moon day or full moon day. At that time Subramanian was in eternal bliss of universal mother enjoying mother’s beautiful face surrounded with thousands of sun lights. So Subramanian answered the king that the day was full moon which was actually a new moon day. Hence the king ordered to push him in burning fire at evening 6 ‘o’ clock if the moon didn’t appear. After sometime, the king’s army awakened Subramanian and called him to come with them, to fulfill the punishment. Returning to his consciousness, Subramanian realized that Goddess Abirami alone made him to say it was a full moon day when it was really a new moon day. Burning Fire with rays is beneath him and Subramanian was on the top, inch by inch moving down by the forces. Realizing that Amman alone can save him, he started singing 100 songs on Abirami (the so called Abhirami andhathi and prayed her to come to his rescue. While singing the 79th song stating that Her merciful eyes have got superpower and she is an ocean of blessing with no limits. Immediately Annai Abirami appeared before him and threw her ear-ring in the sky which appeared as moon for full night. The king was immensely pleased on his devotion and honored him by calling him Abirami Patter and became a disciple to Abirami Patter. What we come to know from this is that god alone is all pervading superpower and immortal. All other worldly creatures are not perennial. If you are really interested to see Him you are supposed to do meditation and prayers that too in the early morning ie. morning 3 am to 5 am. God is great. Also read the story of Markandeya who conquered death with the help of the divine that took place in Thirukkadaiyur in Tamilnadu. Some Interesting facts Abirami Pattar’s name was Subramaniam. Since he got the grace of goddess Abirami the king Saraboji named him as Abirami Pattar. Every year during the Tamil month of thai during the new moon day Abirami Pattar festival is celebrated at Thirukadaiyur even nowadays. Abirami Pattar’s father was Amirthalinga aiyar. His son was called Subramaniyam who was later called as Abirami Pattar. Abirami Pattar’s son was also named Amirthalinga aiyer. After him it was Ramaiya and then it was Subramanian. Their successor today is Narayanasami aiyer’s son Amrita Barathi. It seems his age as of now is 70 and he doesn’t have any issues. Abirami Pattar wrote the following 1. Abirami anthathi (100+1+1 songs total) 2. KaLLavaranar pathigam - 10 songs 3. Amirthakadeswarar pathigam - 10 songs 4. Kala samhara moorthy pathigam - 10 songs 5. Murugu venba - 10 songs 6. Abirami ammai pathigam - 22 songs King Saraboji not only gave the name “Abirami Pattar” but also lands, gold and also a surname “barathi” for Abirami Pattar’s generations. Abirami Pattar had always remained aloof and received hatred from the temple priests and officials in his earlier days. The 70 year old successor of Abirami Pattar living today, Amrita Barathi was also born on the Tamil month of thai during new moon day. His birth star is thiruvonam. Madhavi, the second heroine in the story silapathigaram, with whom Kovalan had an affair, was also born in Thirukadaiyur. Today Madhavi’s house is used as panchayath office. There is also an olden vaishnavite temple in Thirukadaiyur. The gods in this temple are Amrita Narayanar and Amrita Valli. The fourth house in the street “melvalaga theru” is where Abirami Pattar lived. This house was later bought by Sivaprakasa Desikar which is used by none and remains locked even today.
  14. hi intelligent fellow Who said Rudra is shiva and do u know the very first tamil literature by Nakkeerar which date back 2000 yrs is on Lord Muruga - Thirumurugatruppadai Hope u worship Lord Hayagreeva - who worships - admits worshipping Sree Lalitha Parameswari the wife of Kameswara shiva - where do u find Kameswara in Vedas - where do u find Lalitha in Vedas - do u mean ur Hayagreeva bluffed. Lalitha Sahasranamam was given to Saint Agasthiya by Hayagreeva only - just go thru Lalitha sahasranama and its meaning before concluding that shiva and rudras are same. Few lines Manipoorantha rudhitha - Vishnu kranthi Vibhedhini Aakgna Chakkraalandhastha - Rudra kranthi Vibhethini Sahasrarambuja rooda - sudha saraabhi varshidha when we just try to come out of story reading and contemplate on these tantric lines - lot of knowledge will dawn upon. Lalitha saharanamam is a treasure if we really seek truth beyond stories (of historic heroes - who at the end committed suicide) thats all I can say and moreover thats not my job either - I just started and have a long way to grow beyond those story hereos Thanks & regards vmsunder
  15. Yeah! it will be confusing.. See if you know and have even iota of doubt at heart the devotion will be incomplete. It is better to get convinced and the follow the path. See - Everything has come from light this is what our scriptures say. Do u know that this is true - as per science the earch was a thrown away piece from Sun (star). The Sun is full of fire and hence is almost in gas form - there is no solid items - all that you see on planet earth originally belong to fire - thats why u see lots of fire worship in Vedas and scriptures, In Saiva philosophy God Shiva is referred as Param Jyothi (ultimate Fire Ultimate Light). Truth can not be two. The core of our scriptures can not contradict, like sugar coated tablets - the quoting, by mixing certain stories and examples, they covered the truth. See water is used to put off fire - but water itself is combination of two highly flammable gas. Any solid matter crushed beyond a level form will get the form of gas. Please go thru Saiva Sidhdhanthas and Aagama saastras and Patanjali yoga suktham and Sidhdhars songs (Thirumanthiram English translation) - the truth is apparent. Any suspicion will lead to futility - only the sthithaprakjna's get salvation (a confused and doubting mind can not reach sthithaprakjna stage). even if you pretend it will fall at some point - so doubt and get cleared then only the SURRENDER WILL BE WHOLE HEARTED AND COMPLETE. Thanks & regards vmsunder
  16. Vedas never speak about Shiva - it speaks only about - Rudra - Rudra and Shivar are not same - this is your basic ingnorance. There are crores of Rudras - Ekadasa (Eleven Rudras)are prime among them. Hope you have respect Hayagriva - who admits worshiping Shiva Shakthi and rendered the precious Lalitha Sahasranamam to us. If you call all Saivist puranas are thamasic - then you redicule Vyasa - who u say is Vishnu himself. Vyasa himself boasts "Vyasaaya vishnu roopaya, vishnu roopaya vyasave' in Vishnu sahasranamam. The same vyasa later repents having called that Vishnu is ultimate - hails Shiva thru Vyasaasshtaka - his own words. I am giving hereunder excerpts from my posts Happened to read several article on Lord Siva and Vishnu In the analysis of Shaivism is totally wrong and onesided. You cant view Lord Siva thru bhagavatham. Bhagavatham is a collection of stories. it may be noted that Bhagavatham has to be used when one chooses to go deeply into Vaishnavism. The Saiva Philosophy is the choicest product of the Dravidian intellect. It is the most elaborate, influential and undoubtedly the most intrisically valuable of all religions of India. It is peculiarly the South Indian and Tamil Religion . - (Dr.G.U. Pope) Please read the research of Arthur Avalon (Sir John Woodroffe) on Saktham worship - which highlights Siva-Sakthi is the ultimate supreme lords worshiped very long back. Infact in addition to Vedas - which does not directly speak about Siva or Sakthi and speaks about Rudras only, please look into Saiva Aagamas which is largely ignored and few of them got translated to french people long back - you may find these info. in the web. There is nowhere in ancient history about any trace of Vaishnavism, ancient most discoveries at Indus valley civilisation highlighted/unearthed Siva Worship prevelent at the time. There is no history about "Namam" (Three vertical lines) used by Vaishnavites, it is a recent phenomenon. There is no reference of goddess Raadha in Bhagavatham - pl enlighten me if you find it anywhere. Also note the Guru of lord Rama is Vasista - who is a Siva devotee (vasista kumbothbava gowthamarya muneendhra devaarchitha sekaraya - siva panchatchara stothram) Unlike Saivism, there is no worthy philosophical work in Vaishnavism except the Bhagavath gita - which is given by Vyasa only (Vyasa told Bharatham Story in which Sanjaya tells Dhrudhrashtra on what Krishna tells to Arjuna), it is ultimately the knowledge of Vyasa only - if u take it as a Story. whereas u can find Tirumandhiram in Tamil and various Sidhdhas have given various tantric and mantric and yogic and philosiphical secrets. Even in that - Arjuna worshiped Shiva for Pasupathasthra Lord Krishna's temple in Dwaraka - has got the Goddess (parvathi - worshiped by Krishna) temple in it. In almost all avatars Lord Vishnu worshiped Shiva, infact as per puranas almost all avatars of Lord Vishnu ended by Lord Shiva only. The Sudarsana Chakram in the hand of Vishnu is gifted by Lord Shiva after Vishnu offered one of His eyes to lord Shiva (Lord Shiva created Sudarsan Chakra by drawing its picture on water and land thru his toe to kill Jalandharasura). Narasimha - by Sarabeswarar Vamana - Sattanatha Krisna - by Dhurvasa Rishi (devotee of lord Shiva) etc. The temple purana of Tiruvarur in Tamilnadu says the Shiva linga worshiped by Vishnu is kept there In Vaitheeswaran koil Lord Ram worshiped Shiva In Kasi Viswanath was worshiped by Lord Vishnu (Vageesa Vishnu Sura Sevitha Patha Peetam - Kasi vishwanathashtakam) Krishnua or Lord Ram are all human lives idolised subsequently because of the quality and the skills they portrayed. Krishna's quality can be obtained by anybody who practices Ashtanga Yoga - first understand Ashtanga Yoga and then people may comment - Please refer to Patanjaly Yoga Suktham. Also the Arthur Avalons "Serpent Power" and the English translation of St.Tirumoolars "Tirumanthiram". Also, Lookinto the Mahabharatham - given by Vyasa St.Vyasasa gave birth to Dhrutharasthra and Pandu St Vyasa was a vishnu worshiper - so tried to highlight Vishnu in all possible ways - Pl go thru the history behind "Vyasashtagam" to know how he was corrected. Why dont you have a look into the Uthara Ramayana what sort of divine quality u see. The Vedas talk only about Rudra - and moreover the Vedas are brough into India by the Iranian (Aryan)invaders, the Saiva Worship was prevelent even before the Vedic Period, the Vedas principally worships Agni, Vayu, Prithvi, Appu, Sun, Moon etc. Seeing the supremacy of the Prevelant Shaivist philosophy in the Indian subcontinent, the invaders penetrated into the existing system while obsorbing most of the prevelent system- thats how the present day Hinduism was born. I think u dont want to go deep into the reality and accept the Historical findings. Have a look into the following research reports. geocities.com/shivaperuman/origin.html dlshq.org/download/lordsiva.htm Also Veda Vyasa having uttered that Vishnu is supreme, was paralysed and prayed for Vishnu who corrected his mistakes and asked him to worship Shiva - there came Vyasaashtakam - sung by 'Veda" Vyasa himself. Also, after conquering Mahabharath war - Krishna knowing the sins committed by killing thousands of lives insisted all the pandavas to worship Shiva at Ketharnath Lord Rama worshiped Shiva to get rid of the sins committed by him in Ravana Samharam. All Vedas worshiped Lord Shiva - Please refer to the Sthala puranam of Vedaranyam in Tamilnadu. On Radha Most of the stories attibuted to Krishna are pure imagination by staunch poetic devotees. While we need respect the bhakthi involved u cant give importance as if they were part of Srimad Bhagavatham. There is no other source except bhagavatham to know as to what happened in Krishnavatharam. Please refer the "Krishna the man and his philosphy" by Osho. The Bhagavath Gita In a way, the Gita is collection of philosphy by Vyasa. Request you to note while it is the most published philosophical work because it was part of the Aryan invaders work, while there are other Great philosophical master pieces like - Patanjali Yoga Suktham and Saiva Aagamams - in Sanskrit, Thirumandiram - by St Tirummolar - Tamil Siddhar Paadalgal - Tamil Thevaram and Thiruvasakam - Tamil and many more I request you have you ever had a chance of looking into the following 1. Research done in Indus Valley Civilisation 2. Kashmiri Saivm 3. Tantric and Mantric researc done by Sir John Woodroffe 4. Aryan Invasion in India and its impact in Indian philosophy But please have a look into the life these great scholars of recent time Sri Bhagwan Ramana Maharishi Sri Bhagwan Ramalinga Adigal Srimad Pamban Swamigal Sri Sivanandha I would like to clarify the following; The Saiva Philosophy is the choicest product of the Dravidian intellect. It is the most elaborate, influential and undoubtedly the most intrisically valuable of all religions of India. It is peculiarly the South Indian and Tamil Religion . - (Dr.G.U. Pope) While I am not a scholar in Saiva philosphy. But very minimum knowledge in Ancient Indian History and the Aryan theory and Saiva sidhantha knowledge itself suffice to conclude that what you have mentioned that "Shiva is next only to Krishna" is wrong. Also, the purpose of stories are to impart a strong bhakthi in the devotees mind, one should go deep in his soul to seek the truth, after a period of time there will be no need for the form to worship, thats y u can find Siva being represented by Siva Lingam - a Roop(a)roopa form - u can attribute it either to a form or a non-form, and is denoted as "unseen and unfathomable light (Arutperunjyothi) - Please refer to Thiruvannamalai/Tiruvannamalai Temple History - Sthalapuranam. A small quote from Thirumanthiram (translated with my little knowledge) Seevan enna Sivan enna Verilai Seevanar Sivanaarai Arigilar Seevanar Sivanaarai Arindhapin Seevanar Sivanai Vittiruppare Translate There is no dual thinks like - soul and Siva The soul does not know Siva The moment the soul knows what is Siva Then there is no soul - only Siva exists The word (seevan - represent Soul - u can simply see that it orinated and just an extended prounciation of Sivan) At last My sincere namaskars and I am amazed at the pool of knowledge you peopele show case in Vedic philosophy. And I request you to sincerely look into the untouched portion of Aagamas and Saiva and Saktha philosophy in Ancient India and the Saiva Siddhantas. I am sure that you will be benefitted a lot like Sir John Woodroffe and many others. I was bit disappointed when I read Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code" He stopped his research with China and did not cross over to India. Kindly dont stop your research with a portion of sanskript Vaishnavist scriptures alone if you are a seeker. If you like to worship lord Vishnu or Krishna - well and good - but get meditate and take permision from Lord Vishnu before u utter anything low about lord Shiva. Shiva is ultimate - Ekam Param Vishnu in the form of Narasimha was killed by Sarabeswara - Shiva Vishnu in Vamana Viswaroopa - was ended by Sattanatha - Shiva Vishnu in Krishnavatar - was ended by St Dhurvasa's curse - Shiva devotee. Vishnu worshiped Shiva - for Sudarshan chakra Vyasa - the most biased saint - finally gave up his sins by praying to Lord Shiva - pl refer Vyasashtakam Vishnu - searched Shiva's feet in vain Vedas - talk about Rudra (there are eleven Rudras - Ekadasa Rudras) Siva + sakthi - Ardhanareeswara is the ultimate mistyc solution. CERN studies the mystry behind Lord Nataraja (Shiva) statue. Nataraja - dance symbolises - cosmic dance representing the five actions of the universe - creation, protection, destruction, Mayaa and Salvation. Vedas - pl refer to Sri Ramakrishna - Vedas talk only about thrigunas (sat, rajas, thamas - these three are like thieves, the verses in Vedas are not ultimate - it helps to reach divine life - swarga after death by following certain rituals and rules thats all) Maal Ayan theda, marai theda vanavar theda nindra kaalaiyum - Abhirami Andhathi - which says Siva Sakthi's foot is searched by Brahma, Vishnu and the Vedas alike) Pleae note - even Vedas dont know - they too search. Please Hatha yoga and the John woodroffes research and Dr G U Pope's research on Saivism Lalitha sahasranamam says like this: "Karanguli Nakothpanna Narayana dhasaakrithyai namaha" Sivasakthi - from her 10 finger nails created the ten avatars of vishnu. In Yogic growth - "Manipoorantha rudhitha - Vishnu Kranthi vibhethini' While one raises his Kundalini thru Hatha yoga - it crosses the Vaikuntam - which is Vishnu Kranthi located near our Chest. (brahma - Brahma Kranthi near stomach portion, Vishnu - Chest portion, Rudra - between Eye brows - Aknja chakram) These are yogic secrets, you have to learn from a Guru the techniques and the methods.
  17. I think you have been deeper into the Dwaitha philosphy which is the first stage in devotion. You have to doubt god you have to suspect his existence, you have to deeply question the rationale behind all the God related stories then only you can move out of dwaitha which is just the initial stage on the way to salvation. Miracles by few masters - that moving things without physically connecting to it and appearing in many places at the same time and all are just a small sidhhies in yogic path. This power every one has got all that is needed is to tap it with right practice. So question the rationale - the Darwins theory of evolution the Big bang theory all should confuse you and make you question whethe God can be a person sitting somewhere - it is not possible. Every atom, every cell can evolve into supreme being - it is the proof that everything is finite and infinite in itself - just because one is in such and such form today - it wont remain in the same for ever - it will change - change - change - evolve to supreme levels. All seekers of happiness are seekers of God only - this is truth. The whole living beings is after happiness - happiness is what - Godliness - the nature of God. So all actions are to the way to reach happiness - to reach God - there is nothing called good or bad. Nothing called thiest and athiest. These are all jokes just mayas. Come out of it. come out of all conditioning with relevent to God. Chanting Gods name is not to make God to come to you. Do you know - according to Patanjaly Yoga Suktham of Saivist philosophy - if you deeply meditate on any god/God form - the god will come to you in the same form. But the fact is that it is not God - it is your creature - you only created that god by your deep thinking. Deep thinking has got so much effect. Do you know there is a word in English - Telekenisis - by sheer thought you can move anything - even the earth - by thougts. So - the god you see is your own creation - come out of all conditioning and definition - that God has to be like this - human form etc. come out of it. Chanting- mantra - is Pranayama -its a indirect way to regularising breath - once you regularise breath in rithm with cosmos - then mind gets mixed with the universal mind (without the attributes of its own emotions and feelings) so your mind become the Universal mind. That is the stage the budha says - "master of himself is the master of others" Once you reach it - you know mind and maya concept - then ego nirudh has to be done. that is the final stage - then you vanish - your god vanish - only Godliness is there - its not a new coming- new acquiring- its already there - it will ever be there - dawned on to you. Like you wake up from a deep dream. Thanks & regards vm sunder
  18. Naturally - there are three major stages of bhakthi yoga The Dwaita Margam - is the initial stage The Visishtaadvaita Maargam - next stage The Adwaitha Maargam - the ultimate result. Sri Prabupadas philosophy is solely in line with Madhwa philosophy. Dwaita maargam is for beginners - like explaining maths or science to mass thru stories - the stories and its characters are only containers and carriers of the truth - they themselve are not the truth. Krisna and Goloka - are like this containers - one has to necessary go beyond the stories and seek the truth. if someone doesnt cross beyond the stories it defeats the very purpose of it. Stories are for the beginners. The next stage is Visishtaadvait - which Ramanuja, after a huge thought, introduced. The God can not be belonging to human community alone - there are many unexplained mystries in the universe - we dont know them. and a person sitting in a planet controls the whole universe will look like beuractic nature of system which never exists. If God is somewhere then He can not be here, if He is herenow and he can not be with a form sitting somewhere. It is like marriage and love, first the girl is the other person, then after marriage she becomes your wife you love her and she becomes part and parcel of your life, the more you love her the more u understand and unite at heart - then you become soulmate - that is Adwait - thats the reason in stories and in histories you notice many spouse feels the pain or happiness the other is encountering and even leave the world once their soulmate has departed(even western Romeo and juliet). Thats the Third ultimate state is Adwaith - you dont see god as different from you. The god is not against or for the happenings in the world - it all happens on its own -thru the wheel of maya. He/She is least touched least bothered about it - infact its all a game of maya and He/She enjoys it thoroughly. If God wanted he can correct the happenings in the whole world by wherever he is - with just a thot. No need of showing miracles and magics to prove his godliness as in the case of Krsna or Jesus. They are all realised souls thats all - yet those miracles are just a simple things infront of Yoga sidhdhies. Thanks & regards vmsunder
  19. I read that Mahatma Gandhi never chanted 'Hey Ram' as per the findings that he was shot dead in point blank - these are all political coverings. Mahatma gandhi had an affair - which his own grantson confess now - but there was not a single word about it in Gandhis 'My experiment with truth' raising whether it speaks its title. I dont want to comment further. Gandhi is so famed because he adored/preferred Nehru to Patel. Patel for his great work systematically forgotten by Nehru dynasty, no wonder if they erase his name from history. "Rama Ramana lambada" thus goes Lalitha Sahasranama. The word Rama was a prevelent mantric word - so saint Vasishta gave the name to the baby of Dasaratha. Not that the name was invented then - pl note. Ramavathar is to make every one (illitrates - who hardly get a chance to read vedas and saastras) chant the mantra Ram more - but a true seeker is suppose to get the meaning straight and march in the path of realisation. Thanks & regards Vmsunder There is a lot difference in
  20. Vishnu is Vedic god Shiva is pre-vedic God Shiva - Muruga are the basic deity of Tamils which is the mother of all the south indian languages and historian says that there was a Lemooria continent which was in Pacific ocean(now submerged) where the language spoken was Tamil. You can see lots of historic tamil scholars (eg. Nakkeeran, Tholkappiars) verses on Shiva and Lord Muruga. Thats why you find lots of shiva temple in the south where the predominant religion is Saivam - whereas north indian adopt Vedic gods - mostly Vishnu. It is not important which god one worship - as long as they dont interfere in other believers. Kind of MF Husain paintings, this Hindu gods worshippings Buddha depiction are uncalledfor and not in good taste. You see, relegion preaches non-violence - whereas most of the war in history are for establishing a religion. Budhdha preached Love and Ahimsa - but you see the countries where Budhdha is worshiped now - Japan, China etc - they kill everything and eat - thats how they have understood buddhas philosophy. Thanks & regards vmsunder
  21. Hi First of all: Brahminhood is gained by virtues and punya karmas - hope u r in the right path to call urself a Brahmin (going by your associationw ith Indiadivine). A person who eats non-veg, never does sandhya vandhan, eat his food without offering to god, never does homas, never respect adhithis, never respect and love all is not a brahmin - though born in a Brahmin family. Your problem may be due to: that the others are really/slightely better than you - which only a boss can notice. May be he links community to office environments. Just becos few people are like this dont generalise it. Just ignore - just be cordial and friendly dont pollute your mind with hatredness. The whole Govt. of India is against Brahmin community and they are leaving no stones unturned to uproot their race. You be yourself - In history never was an instance where hard work was not rewarded. Pray God - to make him see sense in what he is doing. Thanks & regards vmsunder
  22. Dear Sir I have given the conclusions of many historians and saints words as proof for why I concluded that Lord Shiva alone is supreme. However, heartiest thanks and I became fan of yours for the way in which you replied showing great amount of bhakthi and reasoning. Namaskars Vm sunder
  23. Originally the alphabets (letters) was not used as a mode of communication, so the puranas were carried by people by heart and passed on to the next generation. So there were many versions of puranas and many puranas carry same story with different interepretaions With different and contradictory includes by the people based on their mindset and social encounters and experiences. So you may see many puranas sometime carry even filthy languages and unimaginable relationships - which surely depicts the mind set of person/persons through whom it came to us. Many people who identified with a particular religion pasted and altered stories in praise of the lord they worship. Thats the reason you find Lord Shiva shown in bad light in some puranas. If one argues that puranas were never got altered then the taste and nature of Vyasa himself needs to be looked into deeply - going by the kind of depiction of many events in the Puranas. If they are Vyasa's original versions - then it cant contradict - there can not be two truths - the very fact of contraditing events denotes the fault at either Vyasa's side or at people who carried it to us. If one seriously reads all the Eighteen puranas he/she may even turn out to be an athiest. So dont read all the puranas - infact dont read them at all and read only life histories and stories of devotees who reached god by their devotion. Thanks & regards vm sunder <!-- / message -->
  24. A famous Tamil Verse "Abhirami Andhaadhi" says "Anandhamai yen Arivai niraindha amudhamumai vaan andhamana vadivudaiyal - maarai naankinukkum than andhamana charanara vindham dhavala nira kaanandham aadarangam yembiran mudi kanniyadhe" Translate: You are my Bliss, you are my knowledge, you are complete elixir, your form is beyond the end and beginning of this universe, your foot are the ultimate aim and goal of all the verses and vedas, which is dancing eternally in my Father (Shivas) head. "Kanniyadhu un pugazh, karpathu unn namam kasindhu bhakthi panniyadhu unn paadhaam buyathil pagal irava nanniyadhu unnai nayandhor - avaiyathu naan munn seitha punniyam yedhu enn amme puvi ezhaiyum poothavale" Translate: Endlessly I utter - the words in praise of you. With tears and love - I adore your lotus foot Day and Night - I search worship your devotees What a great boon - how could I do all these, how blessed am I!! Even if I had done great service of virtues in my countless earlier births - these qualities are very hard to acquire - I know its all because of your Love - Oh my mother - u r seen in the whole of universe" The verses are more than 100 like this in praise of Shiva Shakthi Jai Shiva Shakthi Thanks & regards VMSunder
  25. Yes you can keep the deity in Bed room when you dont have any option, as in your case. I presume you keep it for prayer only not for poojas in which case its ok. But ensure that it is not on the side inwhich you keep your foot while sleeping. A famous tamil Goddess Verse says - Nindrum, nadanthum, kidanthum ninaippadhunnai - Abhirami Andhadhi - that you keep thinking on Her in all the states - while standing, sitting, lying down and while doing work. "Kaadhi vilaiyadi iru kai veesi nadanthalum - thaathi manam neerkudathe than" - is Sidhdhars verse - which says women in a remote village while carrying water from far away pools - inorder to kill boredom: - Sings a song - plays with bubbles with both the hands - walk barefoot carefully and also - breast feed her kid tied to her waist with the portion of her saree. inspite of all these activities her concentration will be hooked to the mud pot with water on her head - because if it falls she has to go all the way to home and get another pot and go and fetch water from the pool. It may look simple - but it has got lots of inner feelings and messages inside it. - keep praying Jai Shiva Shakthi
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