indulekhadasi

btw, I love your Saraswati Maa avatar... I have a little holy card that I carry around with me EVERYWHERE that looks like that!

Sorry, I took the Saraswati avatar away. I liked it a lot too, but I really wanted a picture of Indulekha devi of Vrindavan. So I picked this. I think this picture is equally good as the Saraswati one. Maybe I will alternate between the two!

Here is some info on Indulekha devi: http://www.vrindavan.de/indulekha.htm.

What?? You read these books when you were less than 8 year old? What about comics?

 

Umm, well yeah I did read comics when I was five. You know Amar Chitra Katha:) .

Srila Prabhupada, the spiritusal master of the hare krsna movement, gave his disciples an order of books. He brought with him the very first section of Srimad Bhagavatam, and then published bhagavad gita as it is, sri isopanisad, and gave us the Krsna story trilogy sponsored by the Beatles.

 

When he began taking on disciples, the book he gave, along with his initial lectures to his initial disciples, which I take as what he EMPHASIZED, is a book titled, "The Teachings of Lord Chaitanya". If I could only have one book, this is the one I would choose.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

I just love Teachings of Lord Chaitanya. That was the first Prabhupada book that I read when I was 8. Before that I was into the Transcendental Diaries by Hari Sauri. Then when I was about 10 I realized that I had obviously not imbibed enough from Teachings of Lord Chaitanya so I read it again. Then after a 2 years I felt like I have to read the Diaries again. In between I was reading other books like Bhagavatam, Chaitanya Bhagavata, etc. but I always went back to read those books. They are just so filled with nectar.

Anyway about the first question, please get Chaitanya Charitamrita and Chaitanya Bhagavata. Chaitanya Bhagavata focuses on the earlier pastimes of the Lord while Chaitanya Charitamrita covers everything with great detail and explanations. But I would still get both, Vrindavana das Thakura's style of writing is so wonderful and sweet. And Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura also instructed everyone to read it not once, but hundreds of times. Also other very important books are Nectar of Devotion and Nectar of Instruction. Personally I would also get Nityananda Charitamrita but you must be careful because some Sahajiya (sorry don't know name) is publishing a Nityananda Charitamrita. One must make sure that the Nityananda Charitamrita is only the one that is written by Vrindavan das Thakur, be very careful!

It would also be good if you got some of the small books, just to start out with. Raja Vidya, A Second Chance, etc.

Hope this helps.

Hare Krishna.

Most Muslims, Christians, and Jews live in the West, but they don't call the West holy.

 

Well, that is their fault. India is extremely holy having pilgramages such as Kashi, Varanasi, Vrindavana, Puri, etc. But when a deity of the Lord comes to another place such as America, that certain place also becomes just as holy. If the Ganga flowed into China, then China definitely would be holy by the touch of Ganga Ma. Who says that Ganga can only purify India? Remember the Ganga is on all planetary systems. She is in the spiritual world, coming down from Lord Visnu's toe. She is in the heavenly planets as Mandakini. She is on earth as the Ganga. She goes down to even Patala loka.

Haribol! There's a publishing company called "Parabola Press". It has a book called "The Inner Journey: Views From the Hindu Tradition". It was a very beautiful book. The parts I personally enjoyed were the retellings of the legends, and then it would have a Hindu author explain the meaning. The one I mentioned was my personal favorite

Thanks.

Also if you try a book called Sarartha Darsini, that has very detailed explanations of the pastimes. It is basically 10th canto of the Bhagavatam with Vishvanatha Chakravarty Thakura's purports. It helps a lot.

It is nice how Krishna finally made them surrender by saying that they have offended Varunadeva by bathing naked in the water and that it is bad for women to keep their hair loose. So finally they had to tie up their hair and put their hands above their hands in obesiances to ask forgiveness from Krishna and Varunadeva. OMG, Krishna is so clever!

I don't think it is a big problem, but personally I would just stick to the regular Hare Krishna. Just my personal choice.

Radhe Radhe, Indulekha Dasi!

Could you tell me of any good books you have read that elaborate on the childhood lilas of Sri Krishna? Thanks in advance!

btw, I love your Saraswati Maa avatar... I have a little holy card that I carry around with me EVERYWHERE that looks like that!

Krishna book is the most authoritative, but still sweet. I love it.

And thanks for your compliment, I appreciate it very much.

Suddha Saraswati is the wife of Lord Vishnu and therefore is very much worthy of our respects. Jai! And Radhe Radhe to you, too!

Jai Sri Krishna!

No, I don't believe I ever did read a passage regarding that... speculation I guess? I just can't stand the thought of Mother Devaki losing Lord Krishna after such sorrow and hardship! But, no... sadly I don't believe that Devaki left the prison until Kansa's death. But, your solution makes so much sense. Maybe Jasoda is a kaya-vyuha of Devaki? Just like the Gopikas being kaya-vyuhas of Srimati Radharani? That way Devaki could express Her mother's love for Krishna through Jasoda Ma's person? But, there I go again speculating!

Jaya Radha-Jasodanandana!

The only difference between Yashoda and and Devaki is that Devaki has some awe and reverence in her motherly love. When Krishna and Balaram came to free Vasudeva and Devaki they were afraid to recieve their respects, whereas Nanda and Yashoda would be happy to recieve their respects. You have seen the picture of Krishna carrying Nanda's sandals on the head, they never seemed to mind.

Radhe Radhe! And Hare Krishna!

 

I once read one of the most beautiful meditations on this story. It said that we must come out of the cold waters of the world and appear naked (stripped of all desire and hatred) before God before we can be clothed by Him in bliss and enlightenment.

I guess this didn't have much to do with this discussion, but it's just such a beautiful meditation I felt like sharing it!

Wow, where did you read this?

Haribol Everyone, this thread started out nicely but now there is too much Vaishnava aparadha, so I am leaving. Hare Krishna, if I offended anyone please forgive me.

Your servant eternally,

indulekhadasi

Yes our Srila Prabhupada is a friend to all living beings but always CALLS A SPADE A SPADE!!

 

Regarding the Gaudiya math

 

"Disturbance is caused by ignorance; where there is no ignorance, there is no disturbance. The four Sannyasis may bark, but still the caravan will pass. There is every evidence that they are influenced by some of my fourth-class Godbrothers."Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Hayagriva 9/14/70:

 

"Do not be depressed. All along my godbrothers gave me only depression, repression, compression--but I continued strong in my duty. So never mind there is some discouragement, continue with your work in full enthusiastic Krishna Consciousness attitude of service." Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Gurudasa 8/29/72:

 

"Our big, big godbrothers in India, they could not preach Lord Gauranga's name all over India. They are simply inclined to criticize me, that my students call me Prabhupada. They could not do anything practical and tangible. They are satisfied with a temple and a few disciples begging alms for the maintenance of the temple. So, we can understand that they have all become sudras. How can they have interest in Bhagavad-gita. Although some of them have been born in brahmana families, but by quality are ALL sudras." Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Niranjana 5/21/73:

Haribol. In answer to all of this, this is what I have:

Thank you. Hare Krishna.

You think SP would call his sannyasa guru a sudra? How about Sridhara Maharaja? You think he would say such things to their face? I very seriously doubt so.

 

Quite frankly SP statements as the one above make me extremely embarassed. It is very difficult to justify them based on FACTS, and to reconcile them with a lot of other very positive statements he made about his various godbrothers over the years.

 

Yes, the snotty attitude people like you have towards other Vaishnavas is in part based on Prabhupada's statements like the one above. Still, that does not make them to be true, or even justified.

OMG, Kulapavana Prabhu took my thoughts out of my head and posted them here. Thanks, prabhu.

To put things in proper perspective, it's is very clear Srila Prabhupada instructed his genuine disciples to avoid the Gaudiya math completely. ISKCON has nothing to do with the present mundane version of the Gaudiya math that has been mundane since Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Thakur departure from this world in 1936, Srila Prabhupada never liked staying with any of his Godbrothers because they where not serious nor understood the preaching aspect of Spiritual life.

Please forgive me, unnfortunately it seems that you don't have a very clear understanding of Srila Prabhupada's relationship with his godbrothers. Some may have been antagonistic but many were his good friends. Please read the book "Our Srila Prabhupada, A Friend to All, Early Contemporaries Remember Him" by Mulaprakriti devi dasi. This book melted my heart and I am sure it will melt yours, too.

Hare Krishna.

Arrival address and press conference- San Francisco, July 4th, 1970

"Even in some literatures of your Christian religion I find that Lord Jesus Christ also went to this Jagannath temple and lived there for some times. Of course, how far it is true, that is to be judged by you, but I have read this information in a Christian book, Aquarian Gospel."

There are a few other quotes where Srila Prabhupada says this but this one is the most important one. If you request the other quotes I will put them up here.

Thank you. Hare Krishna.

I think that makes ALOT of sense... b/c it says that Maya was incarnated in Mother Jasoda's womb, but Maya is a facet/power of the Lord, so I've always thought that the Lord incarnated in the two forms at once. Another thought I (once) had (before reading this) was that Devaki just fled the prison immediately after the birth and did a witness-protection style name/location change... any thoughts on those two views? I guess the second one was rationalizing so that poor Mother Devaki didn't have to lose Her precious Krishna!

Jaya Radha-Madhava

Haribol, is there any quote that you can give that explains your second thought? I don't think there is any reference that Devaki fled the prison.

NIRGUNA PRABHU DEPARTS!!!

By Hari-sauri dasa

H. G. Nirguna Krsna prabhu, who has been residing in Sri Mayapur dham for the last six months with a terminal case of tumor, departed his mortal coil in the most auspicious and glorious manner at 1.21 PM November 3, 2007.

He was surrounded by loving devotees immersed in the Holy Names, and clutching Sri Giriraj Shila in his hand.

The cremation will take place on the banks of Mother Ganga within the hour.

All glories to Sriman Nirguna Krsna prabhu, whose life and soul was serving the lotus feet of his spiritual master Srila Prabhupada, and distributing his books. The sankirtan movement has lost the association of one of the stalwarts of book distribution and while we lament his absence, we rejoice in the glorious manner of his departure in full Krsna consciousness.

A fuller report will be issued in a few hours time.

Your humble servant, Hari-sauri dasa

This is fully correct and strongly backed up by sastra, however, let's say you have children at your home, can you expect that they should have the same intelligence as you have being a grown-up person? When finding out that people in general, our neighbors, have the understanding of using Lord Siva to legalize pot smoking, we should take that into consideration and not signal that we support their understanding and also put Lord Shiva on our home altar (Vaishnavanam yatha sambuh).

There is no harm in worshipping Lord Shiva but I don't have Lord Shiva on my home altar, either. I know that by worshipping Krishna, Lord Shiva is automatically worshipped and Lord Shiva will be happier by my worshipping Krishna, then by worshipping him, himself. But I understand your veiw. However if I had a Lord Shiva on my altar I wouldn't try to take him off just because of these people. I would try to preach to them, you know, tell them why we are worshipping Lord Shiva because he is the greatest Vaishnava. At the same time we can convince them not to smoke, etc.

Sanatan Goswami explains that we do not worship Lord Shiva separately from Lord Vishnu. So we can only place Lord Shiva on the altar if Lord Krishna is already there. And Sanatan Goswami said we should all follow Shiva Ratri. So I think we should have the courage to preach about Shiva tattva to the outside world also, that Lord Shiva does NOT represent smoking. Otherwise they will always remain in the darkness about the high position of Lord Shiva.

Here Lord Shiva is associated with people who smoke cannabis. I heard that in all the Amsterdam Coffeeshops where they sell cannabis, they also sell posters of Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva being used as the god who legalizes drug taking. The god who is worshipped by smoking hashish So as soon people see a pic of Lord Shiva they immediately think that you're a great supporter of pot smoking. This was surely another reason why Prabhupada strictly didnt want anything related with Lord Shiva in his temples. Not to arouse suspicion that Vaishnavas are addicted to drugs or supporting smoking. This is of course all being changed now but this is to be expected as kali-yuga proceeds. Vaishnavas even becoming angry when Lord Shiva's murti is not on the altar.

 

Siva babas on TV

Vaishnavanam yatha sambuh. And also Srila Prabhupada said these people shouldn't imitate Lord Shiva. But does this make the faults of low-class people, his fault? Srila Prabhupada said that if those people cannot imitate his act of drinking poison then how can they smoke? But I don't think whatever those people do, it is Lord Shiva's fault. I could use the same example. Many people associate with many women at one time using Lord Krishna and the gopis' example. So now should we take Lord Krishna off our alter?

Since Lord Shiva is present in Lord Krishna we don't need to worship him separately. But keep in mind that Vaishnava aparadha can be very dangerous. And as I started my post- Vaishnavanam yatha sambuh.

Thank you. Hare Krishna.

What about Lord Vishnu's expansions? They must die too, and we still worship them as equal to Lord Vishnu? What is so different with Sada-Shiva and His Rudra expansions? It can easily be claimed that Rudra expansions are purnam (complete) just like all Vishnu expansions are complete. When Shivaites worship Rudra they are worshipping Lord Sada-Shiva, who is non-different from Lord Vishnu.

 

For the sake of preaching Vaishnava acharyas sometimes make artificial distinctions, and even mis-translate the shastric verses on purpose to separate us from the Shiva-bhaktas, yet the truth is quite a bit different. Vishnu and Shiva's expansions are the same ice cream, just a different flavor. Take your pick but dont badmouth other flavors just because you have no taste for them.

Thanks for your explanation, I understand now. But it was not my intention to badmouth Lord Rudra at all and even if I did so unknowingly I beg for his forgiveness, as well as yours.

well, well, well... Lord Krsna must die too when He appears in this world, so does Lord Ramacandra, is it not? What does that tell you, my dear?

 

Lord Shiva is very often completely misunderstood by the Vaishnavas, especially the Western ones. They consider Lord Shiva to be a mere demigod. How bogus is that?

No, I definitely know that Lord Shiva is NOT a demigod, but I am talking about expansions like Rudra.

I would guess that like the administrative demigods and some of the great rishis that these goddesses transform their material forms into spiritual forms and enter the spiritual world at the time of pralaya.

 

It could be called death, but I think it is different for them.

It is a transformation more than death.

I see. Just asking, do you have any scriptural reference for this?

Even Lord Vishnu relishes the sentiment of service to Krishna.

Lord Siva does as well, though Siva is another form of Krishna.

Lord Siva gets the added ecstacy of service to Krishna as does all the Vishnu avatars.

When Krishna comes into the the domain of Lord Shambhu, the material energy, he offers full respect and honor to Lord Shiva.

 

Sadasiva has his own realm in the Vaikuntha world where the pure devotees of Lord Siva attain upon perfection.

 

On the planet of Sadasiva he is worshiped as Supreme by his devotees.

 

The Rudra incarnations of Lord Siva are sometimes considered jiva tattva, but the original Sadasiva is in the same league as Vishnu-tattva.

That's true, the original Sadashiva lives above the Viraja river (spiritual world) in Mahesh Dham. Isn't it also that Parvati devi cannot die but Durga and Kali (her expansions) must die because they reside below the Viraja river in Rudra dhama?

Since the word expansion is being bandied around a lot here, can someone please mention the sanskrit word that got translated to expansion?

 

Cheers

expansion-kala

Well...? Paramatma is Krsna's expansion not Lord Siva's. There is only one Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

It would be more proper to say that Lord Shiva is Paramatma's(Krsna's) expansion for carrying out destruction.

Hare Krishna. You are right but it goes even a step further. Lord Shiva is Paramatma's expansion and Lord Shiva's expansion is Rudra who is in charge of destruction. Sadashiva in the spiritual world is beyond all that stuff. Sadashiva is not capable of dying but Rudra, whose residence is below the Viraja river, must die just like Brahma must die.

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