Vedesu

I'm not so sure about that. According to one source, about 75 million years ago there was this alien named Xenu who ruled our part of the galaxy. Back then Earth was called Teegeeack. At some point Xenu had a massive problem with the consideration that 76 of the planets he controlled had a population problem of about 178 billion people per planet on average. Now, with such a large amount of people clogging these planets up, Xenu was faced with having to solve the population problem, and soon. So Xenu gathered all of the billions and billions of people up by using psychiatrists to collect people for their income tax inspections. All of these people were travelled by space craft from all the 76 planets to Earth where they were stacked into the bases of twelve volcanoes on Earth. At some point, the souls of the aliens, or also known as thetans, were blown around in the atmosphere in nuclear winds. Xenu had electronic thetan traps then in the atmosphere where all the thetans would get stuck and then gathered into large boxes. Here's a photo of one of those volcanoes. Not sure if it's the one in the Indian Ocean or not:

And who are you? The "friend" that was privately chatting with Murali Mohan prabhu, providing him with a distorted account of Srila B.P. Keshava Maharaja's sannyasa initiation, making the absurd claim that Srila Narayana Maharaja's followers are "ticked off" because the sannyasa initiations originally flowed through Srila Sridhara Maharaja? IMHO, it doesn't take all that much reading comprehension to realize that Beggar is a devotee with deep appreciation for not only Srila Prabhupada, but Srila Sridhara Maharaja as well. Do you just gloss over his posts without trying to understand a single word? I edited my post, because I think I know who you are. (Hint- someone from down under who in the past has boldly stated on these very forums that Srila Prabhupada is "an offender.") But since I can't prove this, and being that you could simply deny it even if true, I won't name names.

I take it you haven't read any of his writings on the internet, as they are perhaps the most offensive I've encountered towards Gaudiya Math sadhus, and that includes the s(p)ewage of so-called PADA. His brother Makanlal prabhu on the other hand, now there's a gentle, true-blue Prabhupada-only type who is non-offensive. Why recommend someone who constantly engages in horrific blasphemy of Vaishnavas? Trust me, no one here is jealous of NNV. And as far as his recent marriage, I seem to recall that about 15 years ago, he married a girl half his age. And that's fine and dandy. But when one notices an ongoing trend in this area, along with a penchant for rampant blasphemy, I find it difficult to recommend him to be anyone's guru. BTW, the letter you referenced earlier was written to Vishvakarma das, who was formerly the TP of Toronto, not NNV.

Maybe those couple of times that he didn't look at you, he was looking at someone else whom he felt needed the mercy more at that particular time. Perhaps he sensed that you already had developed some shraddha that others hadn't. Yes, he seemed to give more "personal" time to newcomers and Life Members. You weren't alone in that regard. But his mood at the time was to spread Krsna Consciousness all over the globe and make Hare Krsna a household word. He even wanted to see high court judges wearing tilak. His vision was broad, and that was what was needed at the time. He also gave instructions in his books about the necessity of siksa gurus. Many of Srila Prabhupada's disciples subsequently have received that personal, intimate association which the heart craves via the association with Sadhus such as Srila Sridhara Maharaja, Srila Narayana Maharaja, Srila B.P. Puri Maharaja, Srila Govinda Maharaja and others. Guru is one. Srila Prabhupada didn't forget about you. Another point: you must have attended some of his classes being that he visited the Temple you were at. Surely he cast his merciful glance upon you during those classes, even if you were unaware of it. For some strange reason, most likely due to my fledgling faith, the few times I was fortunate enough to attend his classes I would have to stand up in the back of the room in order to stay awake in order to avoid the offense of nodding out while my Guru is speaking. Surely he saw me and took pity upon me. I can only remember 2 times right offhand that I made eye contact with Srila Prabhupada (once while opening the door to his quarters for him, the other while he personally and privately instructed me on chanting the Gayatri Mantra, even mildy chastising me when I messed up the first time.) I even remember feeling quite ashamed when he looked at me, because I knew that he was aware of how deeply fallen I was. So, I don't take it that Srila Prabhupada was ignoring you or being impersonal towards you. That's not his nature. You are obviously a very sincere soul, which means that he did indeed grant you his mercy and is surely aware of all the chanting and service you have performed over the years. And whenever Srila Prabhupada appears to you in a dream, that is most special. Surely you have made eye contact at those times. Your initiation wasn't bhogus. It was real, and you are indeed a sincere and dedicated disciple of your Guru Maharaja.

That was profound, poetic, and eloquent, Mahak prabhu. And yes, I was thinking of the gang-banger friendly ballad: Liberty Valance.

Where's Gene Pitney when you need him. Maybe he could sort this whole mess out. Which reminds me... I once wrote a song, but I can't read music so I don't know what it is. Every once in a while I'll be listening to the radio and I say, "I think I might have written that."

Hmmm. It is true that I'm 3rd class and a lightweight. However, I was just joshin. You weren't. So who's the name caller here. Hehehe.

SLEEPERVADIS, COME OUT TO PLAY-EE-YAY. OH SLEEPERVADIS, BEGGAR WANTS TO PLAY-EE-YAY.

Go Duke! Just thought it worth mentioning: this is the 10,000th thread in the Spiritual Forums. A question: I plan on having a Shradda ceremony done for my dear old departed Dad by qualified Vaishnava brahmanas in the Dhama. I didn't get a chance to give him Tulasi leaf or Ganga jal before or after he passed away. So, if I were to go to his grave site and sprinkle Ganga jal on the grave, will that give him any benefit, even if the water doesn't actually soak all the way down to his bones? Great article, btw. Quite relevant to many of us who are growing older and watching loved ones leave us right and left.

At first I was thinking along the lines of Sominex. But then... I don't think Sominex causes such terrible, frightening, chronic nightmares which seem to persist for what appears to be an eternity. So, my guess is: it has to be Xanax, which is far more effective as a sedative. But being that up yonder you can git yer stuff fer dirt cheap, I'm guessing they're taking the generic version: Alprazolam - Mylan A3 <!-- google_ad_section_start --> Generic Name: Alprazolam Strength: 0.5 mg Manufacturer: Mylan Pharmaceuticals Trade Name: N/A Type: Antianxiety Class: RX, CIV But how does this stuff get smuggled in?? Don't they have Airport Security? We need stricter laws in place. I mean, this is getting really out of hand. Aren't the Gatekeepers supposed to keep unauthorized persons out of Vaikuntha? Maybe Garuda doesn't check the bags thoroughly when He flies devotees in. I don't know. Someone's got to put a stop to this madness. I say, vote Joe Biden for President. I think he's just the man for the job. Tough, strong, kind, funny. Plus, he promises to pull the troops out of Iraq. Vote early, vote often. Say no to drugs.

You're right, it is oogum boogum. At first I thought you were mistaken, as I had originally believed it to be: "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do" from the Manfred Mann Upanishad, which also blessed us with the timeless adage (english translation) "Blinded by the light. Revved up like a deuce, another runner in the night." I really wanted to pick a nit with you on this, but doggone it, I looked it up, and good golly Miss Molly, you were right. I stand corrected and I apologize for doubting you. Please accept my humble obeisances.

It is so unattractive, isn't it? Mirror mirror on the wall.

How could anyone think that you are raining on their parade? The purport you quoted doesn't say not to make friends with other devotees. It explains the peace formula and how a true friend is one who helps his/her friend understand this peace formula, that Krsna is the greatest friend, (as well as the supreme enjoyer and supreme proprietor.) Any Vaishnava or aspiring Vaishnava would certainly feel great joy and gratitude upon reading this definition of friendship as given by Srila Prabhupada. Buddies, allies, cohorts, associates, partners et al perpetually come and go, and may help lull one into a temporary feeling of false comfort within this material existence, but give me just one friend, a humble servant of Srila Prabhupada, or the humble servant of the servant of any saintly Vaishnava; one who will remind me of my greatest Friend and my real home.... then he is my real friend, and I will welcome him into my hearth and home with open arms and tears of joy.

Exactly. It's one thing to discuss/debate siddhanta. Another thing altogether to fanatically preach, almost to the exclusion of everything else, something which is totally unrelated to sadhana bhakti and the utter importance of hearing, chanting, remembering, serving, etc, and developing the qualities necessary for proper hearing and chanting such as humility, tolerance, giving all respect and honor to others (what to speak of senior Vaishnavas) and not expecting any honor in return. When this form of so-called preaching crosses over into the realm of Vaishnava aparadha, then it can no longer be considered bhakti. The jiva fall issue was not a major point of emphasis for Srila Prabhupada, nor for Srila Sridhara Maharaja, Srila B.P. Puri Maharaja and Srila Narayana Maharaja. Those who preach incessantly about their concocted version, all the while making vicious accusations against senior, if not pure Vaishnavas, are most definitely not representing Srila Prabhupada. Their form of preaching will not create new devotees. Nor will it encourage or enliven already-made devotees. There is no taste in this. Most devotees will turn their backs on such discussions, except for those few who feel the need to defend the vicious attacks on pure Vaishnavas who are truly spreading the glories of Sri Nama Prabhu around the world. I say live and let live, believe as you like, but please refrain from Vaishnava aparadha, for it is debilitating not only for the speaker of such, but the audience as well, which is why I have found the ignore button to be such an invaluable feature on these forums. I enjoy visiting here occasionally, but I appreciate having the freedom to choose who I wish to hear from, and will gratefully acknowledge the informative posts of sincere devotees like Beggar, Mahak, Murali Mohan, Kulapavana, Guruvani, Stonehearted, Shakti-Fan, Nsringhadev, Audarya-lila prabhus and I'm sure a few others whom I've momentarily forgotten.

Sock Puppets on Drugs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1WqpGbMAT8

"Now I want that we shall concentrate on making our devotees Krishna conscious and ourselves becoming Krishna conscious, and not be so much concerned with expanding ourselves widely but without any spiritual content. Just like boiling milk, it becomes thicker and sweeter. Now do like that, boil the milk." -- Letter from Srila Prabhupada dated May 5, 1972

Now we arrive at the crux of the matter. This has been the recurring theme for this person and his assorted array of sock puppets from the get-go. (I had to put him on ignore several months back, as a matter of survival if I am to continue visiting here.) He was even called out on Dandavats by hard-core Iskcon members for blasheming non-Iskcon Sadhus. Srila Prabhupada never, I repeat NEVER had any issue whatsoever with his Godbrothers and Gaudiya Math relations regarding philosophical issues such as Jiva Tattva. He would not have invited them to join his preaching mission if he had. He never accused them of being impersonalists. Bell ringers perhaps. Envious of his success perhaps. But the real impersonalists are those who cannot offer proper respects to non-institutional Sadhus from a distance, as Srila Prabhupada ordered. From a distance, they bark like rabid, frothing dogs. If Srila Prabhupada had felt that Jiva Tattva was such a major issue with his Godbrothers, he would never have instructed: "never mind what is your origin." I respect your diligence in defeating this impersonalism, Guruvani prabhu. Keep up the good work and tell it like it is. Wish I could join you, but I have long since lost my taste for argueing with Finished Professors and Mr. Answerman types. Knowingly or unknowingly they are attempting to destroy this Movement from within, posing as scholars and engaging in wordsmithing, deceitful tactics, (i.e. attributing quotes to Srila Prabhupada which he never said), and ad-hominem attacks.

Granted, vegetables can be a bit pricey, although a 10 lb bag of potatoes is usually around $3.00 at my local supermarket, sometimes less. I can also buy a 1 lb package of rice for less than $1.00, and a 1 lb package of lentils or split peas for less than a dollar, usually for only $.60 or so. And a 5 lb bag of wheat/white flour for making chappatis is around $2.50. So now let's do the math: If you are eating fast food at a McDonalds, I assume you're going to get a hamburger and some fries. I'm also assuming that since you are poor, you will forego buying a soft drink. I'm guessing that an order of burger and fries will cost somewhere around $3.00 per person. I don't know how big your family is, but let's say you have a family of 6. 6 x 3= 18. $18.00 for the fast food. The $.80 1 lb. bag of rice will feed a family of 6 easily, and when cooked, will make close to a gallon pot of rice. Similarly with the .$70 1 lb bag of dhal. The 5 lb bag of flour will make enough chappatis to feed a family of 6 for probably 5 or 6 meals. For one meal, let's assume it would cost only $.50 to make a batch of 18 chappatis (3 per person.) The 10 lb bag of potatoes should be good for at least 5 meals for a family of 6. That would translate to $.50 per meal. So, to feed a family of 6 by cooking at home and making rice, dhal, and chappatis, with potatoes, it would cost $2.50. Your "cheap" fast food to feed a family of 6 would cost $18.00 for one meal (with the soft drink, add a few dollars more.) So, you're looking at $18.00 for a meat-based fast-food meal for a family of 6 vs $2.50 for a simple, healthy, home-cooked meal for that same family. It's not even close.... the vegetarian diet is cheaper.

I knew a Jivananda in Dallas who arrived around 1980 (along with some businessmen friends) but they were all initiated by TKG. Didn't know of any other Jivananda there. Then again, I was only in Dallas for relatively brief periods of time, and wasn't there at all during the late 80's, although I did see Jivananda (TKG) there in '90. But no Jivananda (ACBSP) that I was aware of.

Good points, and there may in fact be a correlation between the two. I believe that there is a pastime from the Mahabharata where Lord Krsna visited the palace of Duryhodhana and was offered a grand feast. But Krsna refused that offering and instead accepted some rice from the wife of Vidura. Simply offering bhoga to Krsna, however opulent and "pukka" is no guarantee that the Lord will accept. He refused the offerings from those who were offenders to His devotees and accepted a humble offering from those who were actually His true devotees. He could have accepted both offerings, being that His transcendental belly is unlimited. But He only accepted the one, for it was offered with pure love and devotion.

Their needs were minimal in those days. I can only speak from my own limited experience, but the Temple Presidents that I came in contact with were generally in their mid to late 20s during the '70's while Srila Prabhupada was with us in his manifest lila. Although these TPs were married, all were living within the Temples, not on the outside, being that they did not yet have families. Well, maybe one or two had a newborn at some point, but even then, the husband and wife still lived within the Temples somehow or other, using separate quarters, and not really living as a family unit. Times have changed. I'm not necessarily advocating that salaries should be given, just echoing what Kulapavana prabhu has said, that we need to examine and take into serious consideration the significant change in time and circumstance between that era and the present one. If there are qualified devotees to serve as TPs who require very little maintenance and no salary, then by all means, engage them as such.

Apart from the legalities of polygamy, Srila Prabhupada did not approve due to the probability of increased sense gratification. In two separate letters he stated: "Polygamy will simply increase the sex life and our philosophy is to gradually decrease the sex life till eventually there is no sex life." "We are trying to minimize sex and you are trying to increase it. Please give up this idea."

So from this, I take it that we do in fact presently have bodies, have had bodies in the past, and will continue to have bodies until we go back to Godhead. It's not that we are residing in the spiritual world dreaming that we have bodies. And the bodies that we presently have are due to religious or irreligious actions, not simply a fleeting fanciful thought of envy or incompleteness. Next case.

But I thought one could get the exact same association from simply reading the books. Perhaps even better, since we know that Srila Prabhupada is a pure devotee and is present in his books, whereas the speaker of the class may or may not be on the same level. Personal association (vapuh) isn't so important. Well, it is in a way, but you can get that personal association simply by reading Srila Prabhupada's books. Hold your own private classes in the convenience of your own home (or your solitary cave in the Himalayas) simply by reading the books. Read them aloud both in the morning and in the evening. Instruction fulfilled. Next case.

I do understand your healthy skepticism based on your personal experiences. However, the quote you were referring to made by Srila B.P. Puri Maharaja appears to be indicating something else; that of not developing a taste for the holy name due to offenses to either the Lord, the Guru, or the Vaishnavas. Ultimately, it is our fault if we fail to develop a taste for the holy name. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur said to "Look within." No doubt there are cheaters out there in the guise of gurus. But Krsna states in the Bhagavad Gita that he reciprocates in proportion to our surrender. Perhaps we cheated others in a previous life and we have to experience some temporary reactions to our misdeeds. But if we are truly sincere, then Krsna will ultimately send us a pure devotee to guide us. If we're merely looking for a mode of goodness lifestyle or a nice community support system, then we may encounter some detours along the path. Still, there is no loss or dimunition. Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja used to preach that we should learn the art of crying; weeping for the Lord as we chant, with utter humility, urgency, and desparation. The Lord will be attracted by this appeal and will send one of His bona fide representatives to you. If you've been burned by ecclesiastical "gurus", then perhaps it is time to look elsewhere. Lord Chaitanya's Sankirtana Movement is well underway for those who have the eyes to see, and pure devotees are present on this planet.