Vedesu

Realist is Sarva gatah is Gauragopala

And Svarupa and Acutyananda and Bhakta Rod.... the list goes on. Oh wait!

There's 6 or 7 of them all sharing the same computer. Never mind then. My bad.

Srila Prabhupada says, (He rejects out-right Sridar Maharaj's idea that we originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti), all living entities that have come to the material world, have all come down from Goloka some millions of years ago.

There he goes again, falsely attributing quotes to Srila Prabhupada which are nothing more than sg's own ill-conceived words. He's been called out on this dishonest tack more than once, but still he continues.

Apart from that, I have yet to find any quotes in Srila Prabhupada's books which claim that we fell from Goloka. The Spiritual Sky, yes. But not Goloka. And nowhere in Srila Prabhupada's books, lectures, letters are there any quote(s) where Srila Prabhupada states that he "rejects Srila Sridhar Maharaja's idea that we originate from the Brahmajyoti." Such cheating tactics may be effective in fooling naive cult-like followers who choose to believe Srila Prabhupada to be an Acarya who was independent of his Rupanuga Brahma-Madhva Gaudiya Vaishnava heritage who came to the West to teach something different from his predecessor Acaryas. Otherwise, such bhogus tactics are useless and nothing more than a disturbance to Lord Caitanya's Movement.

Vaisesika Prabhu “Krishna will personally show you. He will open the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita and you will get to step into it; you can live in it when you go out on sankirtana.”

Vaisesika Prabhu distributes books

 

Vaisesika: The basis of book distribution is hearing and chanting and there’s no substitute for that. People can come for a little while, may be interested and do the service, but the hearing and chanting in groups of devotees where there’s lots of discussion about the philosophy, that’s when devotees actually start to feel the inspiration to do it on their own.

 

Hearing Bhagavad-gita is non-different form hearing Krishna directly on the battlefield of Kuruksetra so it should be done as a daily function. Without that, maya will crush us, will easily crush us. We are no match at all and we have to be fortified every day with some spiritual program, to fortify us against maya.

 

Sastra Dana: Why should one want to engage in book distribution?

 

Vaisesika: Well, there are several reasons. The reason that I started engaging in book distribution is that a devotee told me that it is a very important service, and that Prabhupada liked it. That was a good reason for me!

 

On a personal side, book distribution means that when you go out and meet people on sankirtana you learn about everything that’s in the Bhagavad-gita. You read from Bhagavad-gita and then you go out on sankirtana and you learn everything about the modes of material nature, for example, and how they act. Krishna will show you this personally. He opens the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita and you get to step into it; you can live in it when you go out on sankirtana.

 

Everything else is business as usual, but when there’s an intervention between a devotee and someone who does not know about Krishna consciousness, it will change the course of the universe. There’s an intervention there. When someone comes into contact again with Krishna, eventually their karma will come to an end. It is the all-powerful order of The Lord to distribute this and if one follows it, he will be in line with Lord Caitanya and his life will become productive, spiritually and materially. Hare Krishna.

In 1974, Maharishi founded a university in Fairfield, Iowa, that taught meditation alongside the arts and sciences to 700 students and served organic vegetarian food in its cafeterias.

I remember a devotee giving a class maybe in '75 or so and telling how someone asked the Maharishi about Krsna and he replied "If you want to known about Krsna, go ask Swami Prabhupada in Iskcon." I don't know how true this is, but it was spoken in Bhagavatam class, so at the time, I assumed it to be factual.

Ironically, I spent several years of my youth in Fairfield, Iowa, a good 10 years before Maharishi showed up. It was a great little town, a small college town of 5000 or so with mostly blue-collar folk. My Dad was a professor at Parson's College there, which closed down due to losing its accreditation and was then converted into Maharishi's University. My Dad was a pretty conservative type, but perhaps due to sentiment, he actually went to one or two of the seminars during the mid-'70's, held at the University in Fairfield. It gave me an opportunity to preach to him (by mail, from the Temple I was at), and tell him what Maharishi said about Krsna. My Dad seemed to appreciate that and despite being a conservative old-timer set in his ways, he was always liberal-minded; even appreciative of me being involved with the Hare Krsna's.

I've sometimes wondered about how the TM folks meshed with the local yokels there. It appears that they are welcome there.

Still, Srila Prabhupada used to preach against selling Gayatri mantras. And the levitation thing seemed like an outright hoax. On the other hand, perhaps Maharishi did some good, being that Bhakta George was introduced to Eastern ideals which enabled him to quickly transition into Krsna Consciousness once he discovered Srila Prabhupada.

To me, he seemed mostly harmless, at least compared to people like Guru Maharaja Ji and a few others who were popular during the early 70's.

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En Géorgie Union-occupée, un confédéré pleure pendant que les spectateurs observent les drapeaux historiques des régiments de la Géorgie et de la Caroline de Sud partir pour traverser le fleuve de rue Marys dans la Floride, fév. 19, 1865, dans Folkston GA

This confedere.... he looks somewhat similar to one of these gentlemen below, I think the one in the middle, although I could be mistaken:

How many times did Srila Prabhupada announce Himself to be spiritual successor in the sampradaya?

 

This is a serious question because I do not remember ever hearing Him say this or read Him saying this.

Whatever happened to Living Entity??? Haven't seen her in 2 or 3 years now. Hope she's ok! I heard she had some health problems, but I didn't think it was all that serious. I always enjoyed her posts. And where is Gaurachandra? Similarly, I used to enjoy his posts as well.

And if that mockingbird don't sing,

Mama's going to buy you a diamond ring.

Again, I am sorry if I offend you.

 

Is it that I am reading this wrong?

 

Again, I sincerely apologize, I am not trying to find loopholes, maybe I am just thinking too much into it.

Oh, there's no need to apologize, although I much appreciate the gesture. It does show that you are sincere. I took no offense, trust me.

I'm probably not explaining things properly. I suppose I could try and reword things, but maybe I need a break as well.

I was trying to give the example of how if someone committed an offense (blasphemy or ninda) to Srila Prabhupada, he wouldn't take offense personally. But his devotees would. For starters, as Theist was alluding to, Krsna is the devotee of His devotees. Also, the dust particles at the lotus feet of the pure devotees are also pure devotees. Pure devotees do not like to see their Prabhus blasphemed or criticized. This is stated throughout sastra. So, if Srila Prabhupada were slandered, he wouldn't take offense personally, but his devotees would. (The dust particles at his lotus feet are his devotees/servants, as is Sri Krsna Himself.)

Lord Nityananda did not take offense due to the violent behavior of Jagai and Madhai, but Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu did, and was prepared to kill the offenders. In other words, pure devotees will tolerate offenses unto themselves personally, but will not tolerate offenses to their brethren pure devotees. (Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityananda were engaging in lilas such that they were acting as Krsna bhaktas, not as Avatars.)

No that makes no sense at all.

If you will pause for a few moments inbetween posts, it should make perfect sense. Please take a few moments to contemplate on these matters before replying. Devotees are offended when they see pure devotees criticized or blasphemed. The dust particles at the lotus feet of a pure devotee are pure. They are pure living entities. So if they see that the pure devotee is being blasphemed or unduly criticized (Vaishnava ninda), then they take offense. The devotee himself won't take offense, but the dust particles at his lotus feet will. Just as a devotee of Srila Prabhupada will take offense when he sees that Srila Prabhupada is being blasphemed.

It's not really all that difficult to understand. It's up to you if you want to understand or if you're simply searching for loopholes so that you can criticize at will, with supposed impunity.

I'm sure Beggar or someone else will have the quotes, but the principle is that even though the Vaishnava takes no offense, the dust at his lotus feet takes offense. And those dust particles are pure devotees.

Hope that makes some sense. It did for me when I had the same question.

Thank you, prabhu! I changed my database accordingly.

 

I am looking for pre 1973 Vyasa-puja books.

You're very welcome. It's probably going to be hard to find Vyasa-puja books pre 1973. Don't think I've ever even seen one before. They're probably collector's items by now, the few that are still around. I take it they aren't in the "folio" (or Vedabase), whatever it's called these days? Kind of a shame if they aren't, as they do provide considerable information.

I thought Yasodananda and Gurukripa took sannyasa around the same time. They used to travel together and also led a team of brahmacaris over to Japan sometime around '75 or so for a huge "collect-a-thon."

I found this link re the famous Gurukripa/Yasodananda Japan collection party: http://www.isvara.org/manonatha/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3457

Scroll about 1/4 down the page.

Parivrajakacarya Swami

Guru-krpa Swami

Kirtanananda Swami

Satsvarupa Goswami

Tamal Krsna Gosvami

Hrdayananda Goswami

Sudama Swami

Dristadyumna Swami

Jayapataka Swami

Acyutananda Swami

Bhavananda (Swami? Goswami?)

Rupanuga Goswami --- but returned to grhasta within a short time.

There was a one babaji initiation in Chicago, 1975: Audalomi das Babaji

not sure about:

Gopijanaballabha Swami (could have taken sannyasa from TKG)

Adi Kesava Swami (???)

Corrections welcome!

Oh no. Hey I knew you were joking and so was I. I slept like a baby. Hell that picture was nothing compared to what I see in the mirror at night before bed.

 

I never could tell if it was man or woman or perhaps chimera. Such pictures remind us of all the lovely forms we have to choose from here in the world of death vs. our own svarupa which we have rejected.

 

Such reminders are needed daily.

Thanks, much appreciated. I sort of had a feeling you knew I was joking, but wasn't sure. I got a kick out of it when I first discovered it a few days ago, but at the same time, it's not a form I would want to be meditating on, especially at the time of death. And who knows, even though it was pretty obviously a photoshop creation, there very well may be entities somewhere in this universe with forms like that.

Yes, that image was pretty bad. Sorry about that, theist and others. Just sort of joking around here, but actually you're right, it's not a good image to have in one's mind when going to sleep. I went ahead and deleted it this morning. I figure that Beggar's image of a dirty hog is sufficient to get the point across about "harama" and namabhasa.

When Muslims see a pig, they show hatred and exclaim, "Harama! Harama!" The exclamation 'harama' contains the two words 'ha' and 'rama', so the person uttering the word 'harama' also obtains deliverance from the cycle of birth and death as a result of taking that sanketya-nama.

--- image deleted ----

What about cats? I had a stray (abandoned from my next-door neighbor) "adopt" me for about 8 years until she died. I fed her cottage cheese (her main staple), milk, some occasional hard cheese, and sometimes veggie dog biscuits. She seemed quite pleased with the veggie diet and never got sick that I was aware of. I figured if she needed meat, she could catch a mouse, but I never saw her do that.

Such a thing could have never happened so out in the open in the early 70s but the ISKCON rank and file were willing to tolerate so much more hypocrisy by the leadership in 1977. And this was three months before Prabhupada left our vision!

That's pretty sad as well, although I did not have any experience of these goings-ons. Maybe I lived a more sheltered devotional life than some, I don't know. I suppose things were beginning to deteriorate by that time. I was not at all happy with some of the power trips that were taking place on the RDTSK party the last couple of years after Vishnujana Swami had been pushed down, then disappeared for good. I guess my point was that it wasn't all doom and gloom during those peak years. I had some unpleasant experiences as well, (not really worth going into here), but I felt like I acquired at least a little sukriti, a little shraddha from those days. I'm willing to take the positive and accept the negative as being due to my bad karma. Devotees' experiences will vary, of course. I was fortunate to have the association of Vishnujana Maharaja and many other very nice devotees whom I found to be inspirational, from whom I learned a lot and was able to build a foundation of faith that has thus far endured, despite all the crazy stuff that has gone on since '77 or '78.

That is where I met my first "leader," Bhagavan das. Even in those days, he rarely used the "das" in the name given to him by Srila Prabhupada. He was always arrogant, but he was also very serious about his role as a leader. He personally drove with me from Chicago to his own temple in Detroit, answering my questions as a new man. At that time the devotees had rented a freezing storefront in Chicago, so Bhagavan took me to Detroit where there was a "real" temple, a heated house filled with incense wafting thru it, transcendental paintings on the walls and Lord Jagannath deities on the altar. It was full of enthusiastic young men and women who were eager to get up at 4 am to chant and engage in austerities. Bhagavan ran it like a boot camp. We had four or five classes per day, with arotiks, prasadam and street sankirtan squeezed in between. We did everything together -- like clockwork -- from rising to taking rest. Bhagavan participated in most of the activities, except going out on the street. The atmosphere was military-like but transcendental.

It's kind of sad that this is Nava Jauvana's memory of the early days. The description above was the program Srila Prabhupada authorized. (Except that when I joined, we only had 2 classes a day, not 4 or 5.) Sure, it was austere, and it wasn't for everybody, but it was blissful and extremely purifying. I wouldn't trade those early years for a Harvard education or a sack of gold worth millions. Many of the devotees he mentions were actually quite dedicated and sincere, at least up until the zonal acarya era began. (Which just goes to show the importance of the physically manifest presence of the pure devotee, and the tragic ramifications which follow when the Acarya leaves our vision. See SB 4.28.48 purport.)

Haha ! I use phone to do this post.

That's all well and good, Pankaja prabhu, and be that as it may, we'd still like to welcome you back. All of us--Epstein, Vinnie, Freddie, Horshack, and the rest of the gang. Your dreams were your ticket out, but we knew you wouldn't stay gone for long. Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.

Interesting article. I wonder what year it was written. Probably one of his later writings? It sounded like the Lord was telling him to stop preaching and just chant, and let people become purified by hearing the transcendental sound vibration from the lips of a pure devotee.

For the Western devotees, Puri would seem like a nice place to retire. Many Westerners cannot tolerate the brutal heat of Vrndavana, especially during the summer months. It might be a tad cooler living near the sea.

I've always hoped that one day I could retire on the banks of the Ganga, but after hearing about the major flooding that has taken place in Mayapur the past couple of years, I might have to rethink that, although I suspect there are some special places, perhaps further north in higher elevations that would be quite habitable.

To a fool like me, the scriptures are but pieces of paper with confusing words on them.

Very nice. And a very nice "out" for avoiding taking responsibility while debating siddhanta.

Gurudev says to be humble, tolerant, and to give *honor* to others--even those who offend us.

Yes, the innocent victim mentality, meanwhile launching offensives right and left at anyone who disagrees with your "logic." What was it someone recently said, "for a thief, everyone else is a thief?"

If you think I'm interested in debate, then you are sorely mistaken.

I was actually being kind. Call it something else if you will: arguing, or heckling. Whatever. Better to have left it as "debating," wouldn't you think?

Feel free to blow as much hot air as you like in my direction. Perhaps if you let off some steam you'll see things more clearly.

As Sriman Puru Prabhu Ji would say: "pot, kettle, black." I've only written one reply to all of your numerous posts in this thread. I'm not "steaming", just trying to shed some perspective on your manner of arguementation. Take it for what it's worth. If it's hot air to you, so be it. I admit I'm full of hot air. But just know that there are folks observing these discussions, some of whom may be watching closely, searching for answers. Are you providing a service to them by behaving in a hostile, irrational manner? It seems anyone who disagrees with you, even while quoting what you've stated (no one is putting words in your mouth) and backing it up with Sastra, gets the 1-800-Dial-an-Insult treatment. And who is the Guru whom you claim not to represent?

Like it or not, hopefully you have enough common sense to be aware that you are representing your Srila Gurudeva. If you have any doubts, please ask an older Godbrother or a senior God Uncle. (Sruta Srava, for example, whom I've had the honor of meeting while being a member of the San Jose Temple during the late 1980's.) Show him everything you've written on this thread and ask him his honest opinion. Are you willing to do that, Murali prabhu?

Then *you* focus on Mahaprabhu and stop staring at the young ladies.

 

Who's the one wracked by guilt here? Is it me or is it you?

 

The Supreme Lord can enjoy with whomever He pleases at whatever moment He chooses.

Who's harrassing who here? You can't even debate Gaudiya Vaishnava issues on an honest level. When you trip yourself up with contradictions and they are pointed out to you, hopefully for further clarification, (or *gasp*, an admission that you may actually be wrong?), you launch an attack on a personal level, even calling people "intellectual jackasses." Some of your posts have to be deleted as a result, and the ones that remain simply make you look... well, rather thoughtless, to put it kindly. You're just mincing words here in the hopes of winning an argument, not actually offering anything of substance. King of the sandbox mentality, placing higher importance on saving face (false ego) than presenting the correct siddhanta.

That's probably the coolest method, Beggar. But don't forget the Scat. Here's one called Rubber Biscuit made famous by a couple of jive turkeys from Chicago:

Cow cow hoo-oo

cow cow wanna dib-a-doo

chick'n hon-a-chick-a-chick hole-a-hubba

hell fried chuck-a-lucka wanna jubba

hi-low 'n-ay wanna dubba hubba

day down sum wanna jigga-wah

dell rown ay wanna lubba hubba

mull an a mound chicka lubba hubba

fay down ah wanna dip-a-zip-a-dip-a

Once you've mastered the "Scat", you be jivin'. Folks will think you're speaking in tongues, moved by the spirit.

Armed with two bags of words, Barry's brain prepares to demolish the opposition.

But Barry's words are non-different than Barry himself. That's a mighty handsome brain Barry has and I admit that I'm just a bit envious, which, btw, is probably why I have fallen into this far-fetched dream I'm presently experiencing. But still, we really don't need be near or even see his form now, do we? The true test is how we respond to his words. Better that Barry mail those all-powerful words out from overseas and allow his shakti to do the rest. If anyone has doubts about the shakti to perform its magic, do please wake me up and allow me to share a dream I once had. A dream about Jaya and Vijaya.

Now, where was I. Oh yeah. Zzzzzzzz.. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz