Vigraha

Lord Caitanya does not come in every Kali-yuga and is therefore is not technically named in the Vedas as the Kali-yuga avatar. This is because He very rarely comes as "the Golden Avatar" unless it is a very special Kali-yuga.

How fortunate all of us are!!

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti who composed voluminous Sanskrit scriptures with commentaries, says Lord Caitanya very rarely appears in a Kali-yuga in this world.

Krishna wanted to come as the incarnation for this age of Kali, as well as to fulfil His promise in Vrndavana: "I shall chant the glory of the gopis, especially of Radharani. I shall chant Her name. Her glory, and roll in the dust of the earth!" But Radharani said, "won't allow Your body to roll in the dust of this earth. I shall cover You with My lustre." Both the mood as well as the lustre of Radharani captures Krishna when He comes here in Kali-yuga. And this does not occur in all Kali-yugas, but only in a special Kali-yuga.

Jiva Goswami explains the meaning of this verse in his own parallel verse:

"I take shelter of Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is outwardly of a golden complexion, but is inwardly Krishna Himself. In this age of Kali, He displays His expansions while performing congregational chanting of the holy name of Krishna. That He is blackish within means that internally He is Krishna; that He is golden without means that He has accepted the mood of Srimati Radharani. In the age of Kali, that Golden Lord is seen accompanied by His expansions, associates, and intimate devotees performing sankirtana."

PAMHO AGTSP

 

 

Please forgive me for my offenses. I believe strongly in Caitanya Mahaprabhu and want to know why he is not listed.

 

Hare Krsna

The reason why is Lord Caitanya does not come in every Kali-yuga, in fact, He very rarely comes unless it is a special Kali yuga.

How fortunate all of us are!!

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti who composed voluminous Sanskrit scriptures with commentaries, says Lord Caitanya very rarely appears in a Kali-yuga in this world.

Krishna wanted to come as the incarnation for this age of Kali, as well as to fulfil His promise in Vrndavana: "I shall chant the glory of the gopis, especially of Radharani. I shall chant Her name. Her glory, and roll in the dust of the earth!" But Radharani said, "won't allow Your body to roll in the dust of this earth. I shall cover You with My lustre." Both the mood as well as the luster of Radharani captures Krishna when He comes here in Kali-yuga. And this does not occur in all Kali-yugas, but only in a special Kali-yuga.

Jiva Goswami explains the meaning of this verse in his own parallel verse:

antah krsnam bahir gauram

darsitangadi-vaibhavam

kalau ankirtanadyai sma

krsna-caitanyam asrita

"I take shelter of Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is outwardly of a golden complexion, but is inwardly Krishna Himself. In this age of Kali, He displays His expansions while performing congregational chanting of the holy name of Krishna. That He is blackish within means that internally He is Krishna; that He is golden without means that He has accepted the mood of Srimati Radharani. In the age of Kali, that Golden Lord is seen accompanied by His expansions, associates, and intimate devotees performing sankirtana."

An interesting ISKCON pastime I heard recently in Vrndavana about a hippie in 1966 that used to travel around in Ken Kesey’s psychodelic bus dance group, travelling around America handing out Kool-Aid drink laced with LSD. Somehow one of Srila Prabhupada’s original Srimad Bhagavatam’s was in a small library section on the bus and read by such future devotee’s like Mohanananda dasa. One young hippie on that bus however, was not satisfied in just reading the book; he was determined to find the author of this wonderful Srimad Bhagavatam and was prepared to travel all around India until he found this amazing Sadhu.

 

When they reached New York, Kesey and the Pranksters visited Leary in Millbrook, NY, at his psychedelic retreat called "The International Federation for Internal Freedom.", it was founded when Leary was fired from Harvard University for doing research with his students on the hallucinogenic drugs LSD-25 and Psilocybin. This young hippie had had enough of LSD and realized God can NEVER be found in a pill and decided to go on a spiritual quest to India in search of the ‘swami’ who wrote the Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

He then decided to leave the merry pranksters and leave for India; he bought a ticket and was on his way to the Kennedy airport. On the way however, he had sometime to spare and went by Tompkins Square Park to see what the acid head hippies were up to. As he went by in the taxi he saw this big crowd and all the hippies dancing, he was curious and told the taxi driver to stop, then went over, investigated, and found an elderly sadu leading the chanting of Hare Krishna. He watched with some curiosity and wondered if the Sadhu he would eventually find in India, who wrote the Srimad Bhagavatam, would be like this Sadhu. Anyway the kirtan stopped and this Sadu began reading from the same book he was reading on ken Kesey’s Bus. Now this young hippie just was even more determined to seek out the writer of the Srimad Bhagavatam seeing this Sadu also reading it.

 

Eventually the reading stopped and this young hippie went over to the Sadhu and said,

 

"I am also reading this book and I am now just on my way to the airport to fly out to India, I am determined to look all over India for this Sadhu".

 

The elderly gentlemen Sadhu chuckled to himself and said to the young hippie

 

"I am the translator of this book the beautiful Srimad Bhagavatam, you do not have to go to India, I am here in New York”

 

The young hippie was ecstatic and had tears in his eyes. Then Srila Prabhupada, the elderly sadu, said compassionately,

 

"Just see, if you are completely sincere and genuine, then you do not have to find Guru, he will find you”

 

Hare Krishna All glorious to Srila Prabhupada!

Inspiring pastime

Johnny come lately? Not likely, as Srimad bhagavatam is the very first sound vibration uttered, for all intents and purposes. Srimad bhagavatam is originally seven verses uttered to Lord Brahma by Lord Narayana. How many years ago? Sorry, this computer does not have enough gigabytes to write all the zeroes following the one. Using sacred math, it was nine years ago, and nine is reserved for the Supreme Lord. Back then, there was Lord Narayana, his only begotten son Lord Brahma, and Narada Muni.

 

For the best of informatrions, read the answers by citing the lords version:

 

SB 2.9.31: The Personality of Godhead said: Knowledge about Me as described in the scriptures is very confidential, and it has to be realized in conjunction with devotional service. The necessary paraphernalia for that process is being explained by Me. You may take it up carefully.

SB 2.9.32: All of Me, namely My actual eternal form and My transcendental existence, color, qualities and activities -- let all be awakened within you by factual realization, out of My causeless mercy.

SB 2.9.33: Brahma, it is I, the Personality of Godhead, who was existing before the creation, when there was nothing but Myself. Nor was there the material nature, the cause of this creation. That which you see now is also I, the Personality of Godhead, and after annihilation what remains will also be I, the Personality of Godhead.

SB 2.9.34: O Brahma, whatever appears to be of any value, if it is without relation to Me, has no reality. Know it as My illusory energy, that reflection which appears to be in darkness.

SB 2.9.35: O Brahma, please know that the universal elements enter into the cosmos and at the same time do not enter into the cosmos; similarly, I Myself also exist within everything created, and at the same time I am outside of everything.

SB 2.9.36: A person who is searching after the Supreme Absolute Truth, the Personality of Godhead, most certainly search for it up to this, in all circumstances, in all space and time, and both directly and indirectly.

SB 2.9.37: O Brahma, just follow this conclusion by fixed concentration of mind, and no pride will disturb you, neither in the partial nor in the final devastation.

 

 

The purports can be attained by entering the highlighted verse numbers.

Wonderful and 'confidential' quotes mahak prabhu that only aspiring devotees of Krishna can understand and accept. Hari Bol

Hare Krsna!!

 

Well I am making homemade books and I am interested in making SB and CC only verse books. Personally I think that the purports of Srila Prabhupada are very important because there is no difference in the Book baghavatam and the devote bhagavata and in the SB by His Divine Grace are both.

 

What do you think about this project?

 

I don't want to mutilate the books of Srila Prabhupada, but I remember when I wanted to buy the SB and CC and I couldn't afford them, I would have liked just a book with the verses

 

 

What do you think about this? Would be Srila Prabhupada happy?

CCC Hari bol, for sometime now I have coped srila Prabhupada's famous 1966 chant and have been handing them out to people of all ages. I one Sikh young man who was a security guard in on of Melbourne’s biggest shopping centres and he played Prabhupada chanting Hare Krishna over the PA! There are so many Hindu and Sikhs coming to Australia now and I am always meeting them and telling them to not let the western tradition pull them away from their tradition of Hinduism, then I give them a CD MP3 of Srila Prabhupada chanting Hare Krishna. Then the next time I give them a down load from the Internet of something Srila Prabhupada has said.

Your idea of printing books is fantastic. I tell them to always visit the ISKCON Melbourne Temple and if that is too far away then visit the Vishnu Shiva Temple at Carrum Downs because there is a beautiful Gopal Krishna Deity there that I often visit. I have beautiful photos Sri Sri Radha Balabha, Gaura Nita (Lord Caitanya and Nityananda) and Jagannath, Balabhadra (Balarama) and Subhadra (Krishna's sister) at home on the wall (Deities from Melbourne ISKCON temple) I actually lead the Kirtan when Srila Prabhupada installed the Deities in 1974

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Even Srila Prabhupada never liked living in the Gaudiya math Temples; sometimes you can reach more people by branching out on your own if you can become spiritually strong enough to defeat all temptations. Associating with devotees does that. Chanting Hare Krishna with our small group of devotees is fantastic. Printing Prabhupada’s books is a great idea.

Anyway I found this interesting comment posted by Kurma dasa

My Dear Ann Clifford, Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated July 25, 1969, and I have noted the contents carefully. I am pleased to learn that you have become interested in Krishna Consciousness through living at the Krishna House in Montreal and associating with the devotees there. Your return address is not at this Krishna House, and I hope that you are attending the Kirtanas which are held at the temple on Monday, Wednesday and Friday evenings.

The chanting of Hare Krishna Mantra will clear away all of the difficulties that you have mentioned. Actually, as pure spirit soul, there is no difficulty; the cause of all problems is that we are forgetful of the fact that we are part and parcel of Krishna, and we are trying to enjoy the material nature through these material bodies. But the laws of material nature are so stringent that in spite of all attempts for enjoyment, the living entity in the material world must always come to the platform of suffering.

This chanting of the Hare Krishna Mantra is especially recommended for chanting in this age of Kali yuga so that any sincere soul who takes to it will very soon regain his memory of being the transcendental loving servitor of the Lord, or Krishna.

Regarding your question about why we do not eat meat and yet we eat plant life, the answer is that we do everything as Krishna recommends. Everything we eat is first offered to Lord Krishna, and because Krishna does not eat meat, therefore we also do not eat meat.

The fruits, grains, and vegetables which we offer to the Lord are not caused any suffering by our offering them to Krishna. Rather they are greatly benefited because to be offered for the pleasure of the Lord will grant for the living entity within the plant body certain liberation in the near future.

Everything that we do in Krishna Consciousness is ultimately beneficial to all living creatures because we are working under the recommendations of the Lord Himself who is the well-wisher of all His part and parcel children. I hope this will sufficiently clear up this matter for you.

I hope this will meet you in good health.

A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami

2 August 1969

The prayer of a pure devotee of Krishna

The following is a poem called "Prayer to the Lotus Feet of Krsna" written by Srila Prabhupada on boad the ship Jaladuta, September 13, 1965.

"I emphatically say to you, O brothers, you will obtain your good fortune from the Supreme Lord Krsna only when Srimati Radharani becomes pleased with you.

Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur, who is very dear to Lord Gauranga, the son of mother Saci, is unparalled in his service to the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna. He is that great saintly spiritual master who bestows intense devotion to Krsna at different places throughout the world.

By his strong desire, the holy name of Lord Gauranga will spread throughout all the countries of the Western world. In all the cities, towns, and villages on the earth, from all the oceans, seas, rivers, and streams, everyone will chant the holy name of Krsna.

As the vast mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu conquers all directions, a flood of transcendental ecstasy will certainly cover the land. When all the sinful, miserable living entities become happy, the Vaisnavas's desire is then fulfilled.

Although my Guru Maharaja ordered me to accomplish this mission, I am not worthy or fit to do it. I am very fallen and insignificant. Therefore, O Lord, now I am begging for Your mercy so that I may become worthy, for You are the wisest and most experienced of all.

If You bestow Your power, by serving the spiritual master one attains the Absolute Truth -one's life becomes successful. If that service is obtained, then one becomes happy and gets Your association due to good fortune.

My dear Lord, O Supreme Personality of Godhead, because of my association with material desires, one after another, I was gradually falling into a blind well full of snakes, following the general populace. But Your servant Narada Muni kindly accepted me as his disciple and instructed me how to achieve this transcendental position. Therefore, my first duty is to serve him. How could I leave his service? (Prahlada Maharaja to Lord Nrsimhadeva, Bhag. 7.9.28)

O Lord Krsna, You are my eternal companion. Forgetting You, I have suffered the kicks of maya birth after birth. If today the chance to meet You occurs again, then I will surely be able to rejoin You.[Note: Srila Prabhupada suffered several heart attacks during his journey on board the Jaladuta]

O dear friend, in Your company I experience great joy once again. In the early morning I will wonder the cowherd pastures and fields. Running and frolicking in the many forests of Vraja, I will roll on the ground in spiritual ecstasy. Oh when will that day be mine?

Today that remembrance of You came to me in a very nice way. Because I have a great longing I called to You. I am Your eternal servant and therefore I desire Your association so much. O Lord Krsna, except for You there is no other means of success"

A. B. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Anyone else got any interesting stories to share ?

The following is a poem called "Prayer to the Lotus Feet of Krsna" written by Srila Prabhupada on boad the ship Jaladuta, September 13, 1965.

The prayer of a pure devotee of Krishna

"I emphatically say to you, O brothers, you will obtain your good fortune from the Supreme Lord Krsna only when Srimati Radharani becomes pleased with you.

Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur, who is very dear to Lord Gauranga, the son of mother Saci, is unparalled in his service to the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna. He is that great saintly spiritual master who bestows intense devotion to Krsna at different places throughout the world.

By his strong desire, the holy name of Lord Gauranga will spread throughout all the countries of the Western world. In all the cities, towns, and villages on the earth, from all the oceans, seas, rivers, and streams, everyone will chant the holy name of Krsna.

As the vast mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu conquers all directions, a flood of transcendental ecstasy will certainly cover the land. When all the sinful, miserable living entities become happy, the Vaisnavas's desire is then fulfilled.

Although my Guru Maharaja ordered me to accomplish this mission, I am not worthy or fit to do it. I am very fallen and insignificant. Therefore, O Lord, now I am begging for Your mercy so that I may become worthy, for You are the wisest and most experienced of all.

If You bestow Your power, by serving the spiritual master one attains the Absolute Truth -one's life becomes successful. If that service is obtained, then one becomes happy and gets Your association due to good fortune.

My dear Lord, O Supreme Personality of Godhead, because of my association with material desires, one after another, I was gradually falling into a blind well full of snakes, following the general populace. But Your servant Narada Muni kindly accepted me as his disciple and instructed me how to achieve this transcendental position. Therefore, my first duty is to serve him. How could I leave his service? (Prahlada Maharaja to Lord Nrsimhadeva, Bhag. 7.9.28)

O Lord Krsna, You are my eternal companion. Forgetting You, I have suffered the kicks of maya birth after birth. If today the chance to meet You occurs again, then I will surely be able to rejoin You.[Note: Srila Prabhupada suffered several heart attacks during his journey on board the Jaladuta]

O dear friend, in Your company I experience great joy once again. In the early morning I will wonder the cowherd pastures and fields. Running and frolicking in the many forests of Vraja, I will roll on the ground in spiritual ecstasy. Oh when will that day be mine?

Today that remembrance of You came to me in a very nice way. Because I have a great longing I called to You. I am Your eternal servant and therefore I desire Your association so much. O Lord Krsna, except for You there is no other means of success"

A. B. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Who cares about wordly nonsense, one thing is a fact, ISKCON and the GAUDIYA MATH are NOT Hindu organizations.

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Vaishnava's just want to leave this material world of birth and death and go back to serving Krishna in Goloka, and on the way tell everyone about Krishna, the original and only cause of all causes. Why worship the demigods like Ganesa for wealth or even Luxmi, Maha-Vishnu and Shiva - Why not worship beautiful Krishna?

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Let me lighten your burden, enlighten you. God exists, and everything and everyone else rely on His existence as He explains in the Bhagavad-gita 7.7:

 

<center>

mattaH parataraM nAnyat

kiJcid asti dhanaJjaya

mayi sarvam idaM protaM

sUtre maNi-gaNA iva

</center>

mattaH--beyond Me; para-taram--superior; na--not; anyat kiJcit--anything else; asti--there is; dhanaJjaya--O conqueror of wealth; mayi--in Me; sarvam--all that be; idam--which we see; protam--is strung; sUtre--on a thread; maNi-gaNAH--pearls; iva--like.

O conqueror of wealth, there is no truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread.

EVERYTHING will be revealed by chanting Hare Krishna, visiting the Temple for association of the Dieties and the devotee's, attending scripture classes, dancing around Tulsi, singing the prayers to the Spiritual Master, honoring prasad. AND EVERYONE you meet, somehow tell them about Krishna, give them one of Prabhupada's books, then when they walk away from you, that small seed of Krishna's name you have planted in their hearts, will give them the opportunity to begin their Spiritual life. This preaching is what pleases Krishna and Lord Caitanya.

 

THEN EVERYTHING will be revealed to ALL OF US.

Lord Chaitanya said - "Your constitutional position is that you are pure living soul. This material body can`t be identified with your real self: nor is your mind your real identity, nor your intelligence, nor false ego. Your identity is that of eternal servitor of the Supreme Lord Krishna". Teachings of Lord Chaitanya , Chapter III, page 55

Los Angeles

14 February, 1970

 

My Dear Madhudvisa,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your two letters dated 10 and 12 February, 1970 respectively. I am glad to learn that you are early planning for the upcoming Ratha-yatra festival. In this connection, I have requested the exact date of the festival from India but it has not yet been replied, so you may plan for any suitable date between 20 and 31 July--even if it does not correspond, we have to arrange conveniently, that is allowed.

 

So far additions for this years Rathayatra, you may make three Rathas, one for each of the Deities. The rest of the details are already there, simply you may may supply more money for festoons, decorations, flowers, bells, flags, etc. The Spiritual Sky is far away, but you just try to do it following Jagannatha Puri Rathayatra. Jagannatha Puri or wherever Rathayatra is performed is not different from the spiritual sky.

 

In the spring you may lead a very big procession on Lord Caitanya's birthday. This is a good plan to celebrate this great spring festival out of doors. So make this a very opulent procession with large Sankirtana Party and you may also celebrate in this way again with a procession on Janmastami day. These two important subjects may be observed in this way by all the three areas and similarly in other centers also.

 

Regarding your first question, a pure devotee is never under the modes of nature. In other words, no material laws apply on a devotee because he is fully under the direction of Krsna. So a devotee can continue his present occupation or he may change it if he likes. Krsna does not force a devotee because the devotee acts spontaneously according to the desire of the Lord; in this kind of loving service there is no question of force. Force is applied only when there is denial of Krsna. Just as the citizens of a state have freedom to follow the laws of the state, that is subordinate freedom, and the freedom of the living entities is also subordinate to Krsna. The clue is given there in the Bhagavad-gita that the living entities are fragmental parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord, this means that all the qualities of Krsna are therefore present in minute quantity in each of His parts and parcels. That is simultaneously one and different philosophy--the living entities thus have free will because they are parts of Krsna and Krsna has free will, but the free will of Krsna is Supreme while the freedom of the parts and parcels is minute. So if the living entity out of love subordinates his free will to Krsna that is his liberation. He is no longer forced to act helplessly, but he acts freely rendering loving devotional service to Krsna in every way. Then we have the practical conclusion from Krsna confirmed by Him in Bhagavad-gita (18:66), ``Just surrender unto Me; and in return I shall protect you from all sinful reactions. Therefore you have nothing to fear.'' In this way astral influences are also material and therefore they do not affect the devotee who has taken protection of Krsna's internal energy, by surrendering his life and soul in the service of the Lord.

 

Your second question about spacemen from other planets; it is stated in the Vedic literature that there are many planets where the inhabitants are more advanced than the inhabitants of this earth planet. So it is not unlikely that such people may have developed space travelling methods. They occupy higher posts in the creation of the Lord and so they may be considered as demigods in the same way as the president is specially empowered by the nation, but this does not mean that such spacemen are necessarily carrying the messages of the Lord, just as the business of the state employee is not to act as the state representative but he acts in his particular job.

 

Because Krsna knows everyone's future does not remove our free will. Someone may commit a theft, and if I know that then I know that he will be captured and punished. That is knowing his future, but know that future does not mean that he had no choice not to commit the criminal act. There are two destinies for every one. One destiny is in Krsna Consciousness and the other destiny is in material consciousness, so if someone is in Krsna Consciousness then Krsna knows his future and if he is in material consciousness and acting in that way then Krsna also knows his future. In this way the free will is not affected by knowing the future of the living being, that is an erroneous conclusion.

In regard to praying to Lord Nityananda Prabhu I have written to you in my last letter that such prayer is quite appropriate. Our only prayer should be in the matter of desiring further development of devotional service and such sincere prayer should be submitted not directly to the lord but through the via-media of His bona fide servitor or representative.

 

I am very glad to learn that S.F. Temple is doing very nicely in the street Sankirtana with transcendental plays. And your BTG sales are very encouraging to me. I have heard from Gargamuni that you are ordering 20,000 issues of BTG and this is very good news. Selling BTG means that out movement is increasing and our philosophy is being appreciated. Uttama Sloka is a very good devotee and I am also glad to learn that he is of great assistance to you in guiding the new devotees. He may remain there with my permission for as long as he may like, I know that he is very valuable as an expert Temple manager.

 

I have already sent Hamsaduta to oversee the Germany center and help them be organized.

 

I am very happy to learn that you are arranging for opening another center in San Jose. From your letter I can understand that it will be a good start in spreading our Krsna Consciousness movement to the Spanish speaking people. I do not care whether the center is opened this place or that place, simply I want to see that eventually a center is opened in every place. So far now you may start the center in San Jose, and as you say that there are many advantages to this procedure, you must develop it nicely. This will be a good opportunity for Citsukhananda and his wife to engage some Spanish speaking devotees to help them when the South American center is first opened. So by the near location you should keep in close touch and give them all assistance as much as possible. Your plan is fully approved by me, and you may immediately begin your preparations without delay.

I am so very happy to learn of your increasing desire to spread this Sankirtana movement. My Guru Maharaja used to say that one who has actually got life cannot do but preach this Krsna Consciousness--real spiritual life means he must preach, and he is really a preacher. Now we must prepare all our disciples for serious preaching work, so I am requesting everyone of my initiated students to very seriously chant daily sixteen rounds without fail and to strictly follow the regulative practices. If these two things are done regularly there will be no chance of falling down because these principles are the essential basis of spiritual strength. In addition to this the classes and individual study of our scriptures must be done very scrutinizingly by you all so that you can be preachers fully convinced yourselves of this transcendental science and its necessity for the mankind in general.

 

If one simply regularly chants and follows the rules and regulative principles all questions of philosophy will be answered by Krsna from within and all doubt will be cleared also in this way. And the same answers are there again in our books like Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Srimad-Bhagavatam, etc. So please see that all the initiated devotees stick rigidly to their daily chanting and regulative living in devotional service. This is most important.

Hope this will meet you in good health.

 

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Nice letter and answers all our questions on destiney, free will and predestination. Also the following letter also proves there is no need of philosophical speculation as found on this thread.

The following is all that is important and the final conclusion that ghari has nicely explained should be accepted by sarva-gattah, Svarupa, a few others as well as myself as bonafide conclusion from the view point of sadhu, shastra and Guru

Srila Prabhupada - "One should not uselessly labor in mental speculation to estimate the Lord's qualities. There is no need of adopting the speculative method or exercising the body to attain mystic yoga perfection. One should simply understand that the distress and happiness of this body are predestined; there is no need to try to avoid the distress of this bodily existence or to attempt to achieve happiness by different types of exercises. The best course is to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead with body, mind and words and always be engaged in His service.

Chapter of Krsna, "Prayers Offered by Lord Brahma to Lord Krsna."

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by gHari

This is not why Krsna knows all time: "and therefore knows past, present and future". Are we to turn bhakti into a mechanical thing, not nirguna? One might ask: if it's all predestined and mechanical then why does Ksirodakashayi Visnu come along for the ride? Why should I bother doing anything - what's going to happen is going to happen? Why chant? Why remember Krsna? Where is the love? Love is now mechanical. I am a robot. I don't exist. I am Mayavadi.

Knowing the future does not mean that the future is predestined. That's just what will happen.

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Everything you have said is totally correct.

Your not understanding the point Sarva gattah is making and that is Krishna knows everything. Krishna in the form of His Maha-Vishnu expansion, is eternally established as the controller of the material universes in the eternal 'present' where he can view His own material creation of past present and future. In a simple way to explain this, it is like you begin a journey at the starting point of a road, you cannot see what is ahead, you cannot see the curves and corners along the journey however, if you are situated above and look down you can see the entire journey from beginning to end.

In this similar way, Maha Vishnu sees all of His over all creation of past, present and future. That does not mean the living entities don't have free will, they do, but Maha-Vishnu's amazing creation incorporates all that as well. We are in His material dream; it is not that hard to understand. What ever you choose or desire, you are provided with that vessel He has already mapped out to fulfil that desire. The vast material creation is set in unlimied pathways, NOT the journey of the 'spiritual living entities' that choose to possess those different 'material' vessels and their dimensional pathways found within sub-space (ethereal vessels) and secular space (biological material vessels) existing within billions of universes that make up the mahat-tattva creation moving within the confined realm of past, present and future.

Thiest will understand this. You are not a robot, you have free will and can choose any material pathway your desire (or deserve). Your journey as a spirtual entity is not mapped out however the material bodies you choose or deserve are because they are the creation of Maha-Vishnu’s dreams.

Remember the mahat tattva is the dream of Maha-Vishnu, our desires, choices and aspirations find their counterfeit bodily destiny that is already part and parcel of His Dream. The choice you have is transmigrating or possessing as many bodies as you desire (and deserve) It is thoses choices, desires and thoughts as a 'spiritual being' that are the founding cause of all material bondage and karma. Karma is greatly misunderstood, it begins on the mental platform in the higher ethereal realms that includes, Satya yuga and to a lessor degree, Treta yuga and lessor again degree in Dvapara yuga - that’s another thread to discus this on.

You are not a robot, you have free will and can choose any material pathway your desire (or deserve). Your journey is not mapped out however the material bodies you choose or deserve are because they are the creation of Maha-Vishnu’s dreams.

"If the conditioned soul becomes Krishna conscious by the mercy of saintly persons, who voluntarily preach scriptural injunctions and help him become Krishna conscious, he becomes liberated from the clutches of Maya, who voluntarily gives him up." (Cc. Madhya, 20-120).

"This is the test by which one can tell whether he is advancing in devotional service. One must be detached from material enjoyment. Such detachment means that Maya has actually given the conditioned soul liberation from illusory enjoyment." (SB 11.2.42 quoted in TLC).

We ordinarily understand ‘Maya’ as illusion, but the spiritual master reveals its more confidential meaning as also ‘mercy’. (SB 1.13.25).

Thus Srila Prabhupada gave shelter to those who joined by

establishing -

1) SAMBANDHA - their relationship as servants of Krishna;

2) ABIDHEYA - their materially conditioned senses engaged in pure devotional service;

3) PRAYOJANA - the resultant transformation of material

consciousness into Krishna consciousness, leading them back home back to Godhead.

The actual essence of all the esoteric knowledge of the vast body of Vedic literature has been rendered in a simple term by Srila Rupa Goswami as ‘yukta vairagya’. Srila Prabhupada’s system is strictly in that

line - "Utility is the Principle".

His books teach this as follows:

Bhagavad-gita As It Is - yukta vairagya in Upanisadic form.

Srimad Bhagavatam - yukta vairagya in Puranic and Vedantic form.

Nectar of Devotion - yukta vairagya in Pancaratric form (rules).

Caitanya Caritamrta - yukta vairagya in Final Perfection (prema).

Sri Caitanya gives paramount importance to five out of sixty-four principles of devotional service:

a) Associating with devotees - Sadhu sanga;

b) Chanting the Holy Names - Nama kirtana;

c) Hearing Srimad Bhagavatam - Bhagavad sravana;

d) Living in a Holy Place - Mathura vasa;

e) Worshiping the Deity - Sri murtira sraddhaya sevana.

Srila Prabhhupada designed his system for ISKCON based on these principles. In his seven purposes for ISKCON, the first two are Bhagavata sevana; the third is sadhu sanga; the fourth is Nama kirtana; the fifth is Sri murtira sevana; the sixth is Mathura vasa; and the seventh is to preach these five principles to others. In organising these principles,

according to the Nectar of Devotion,

Srila Prabhupada instituted the system of initiation in ISKCON. The acceptance of the Holy Name from the spiritual mast er is ‘Bhagavata vidhi’ initiation. The second initiation is both Vedic and Pancaratric initiation: (these mantras are namatmika mantras; the actual mantra is Hare Krishna).

So if one is surrendered to the Founder-Acarya, his instructions and ISKCON, he is primarily qualified to carry on the system of guru-disciple (Parampara), established by Srila Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya of the Golden Age -

ISKCON.

 

The teachings of Srila Prabhupada and all the Vedic texts are not limited by our narrow mindedness and 21st century primitive perceptions of life both in Goloka and in our nitya-baddha dream-avardi state in the mahat-tattva.

Lets face the facts prabhuisical, most of the early pioneer devotees where like parrots who had no idea or realizations of Spiritual life or how the mahat-tattva worked through the fascilitation of Maha-Vishnu's dreams. We all just heard and repeated like parrots with very little realizations, not that there is anything wrong with that however, for ISKCON and the Gaudiya math to survive and not sink into stagnation and just become another 'church', we all must go to the next level, just like Prabhupada went to the next level when he progressed from the Gaudiya math and went to New York and then preahed Krishna Consiousness all over the World.

Interesting reading, these are the hard facts that no-one can dispute

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Vigraha

Srila Prabhupada “Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that I have nothing to do with this material world and that I am simply Krishna’s servant.- Eternal servant., we break the dream. Similarly, we can break this situation” lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.9.1

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<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Vigraha

A good point that realist has made is all of us are dream-avardis in the material world

And your answer is when the impersonalist yogi are able to shake off his material biological form and his underlining ethereal or subtle body, the nitya-baddha conscious aspect of ones marginal identity vibrates inactively as a part and parcel of the bright living impersonal Brahmajyoti. That particular light you are taling about is the energy or s'akti of the jiva-tattva.

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These are the facts, the impersonalist yogi mentioned above is not a devotee and does not recognize Paramatma accompanying him, he only sees himself as one with everything and does not even recognize his own individuality, he considers himself as part of one all pervasive life force and he sees that light emanating from himself as the oneness that flows through all living things and makes up the impersonal clear light or Brahmajyoti. Not only does the impersonalist yogi not believe in his nitya-siddha body, but he also does not believe in a nitya-baddha consciousness. To them there is only one consciousness flowering through all existence, all bodily vessels etc.

Devotees call this Mayavardi philosophy

The New GALVA: Gay and Lesbian Vardi Society.

Hey baby, any of you Vardis want to get together?

You put your foot in this one, listen to one of your own Guru's!!

“Srila Narayana Maharaja was once asked by one of his temple presidents whether or not gay devotees should be allowed to live in his centers. He replied that everyone was welcome to join his temples as long as they followed the rules and regulations. He added that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada wanted all types of people to join Lord Caitanya’s movement, and this was also his desire.

One day I went to visit Srila Narayana Maharaja up on the North Shore in Hawaii. I wanted to have darsana with him and ask some important questions. One of the things I desired to discuss with him was the topic of third-gender devotees, although I must admit I was very shy and hesitant to bring up the issue. I just wasn’t sure what his understanding was, or how he would react.

While Srila Narayana Maharaja was sitting outside on the porch, I entered the house and dressed the large Radha-Krsna Deities residing there in a new red and gold outfit I had just sewn for Them as an offering. Srila Gurudeva then came inside and was very pleased to see Thakurji in the new outfit. We sat down for darsana.

A friend of mine, who was also gay and had been involved in Krsna consciousness for a long time, first asked some questions about initiation. Srila Gurudeva was very kind with him as he always is with every guest. Then I asked my questions. When it came time to bring up the third gender, I was very nervous but managed to blurt out the first question. I mentioned to him about the pastime in which Lord Caitanya, as a baby, had been blessed by third-gender devotees and asked him where this pastime could be found in scripture.

I was thinking that perhaps he wouldn’t be familiar with the pastime or with the third gender in general. But he answered very confidently and was obviously completely familiar with both issues. ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘This pastime can be found in the Caitanya-bhagavata.’ Then I asked: ‘Srila Gurudeva, Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada wanted everyone to come to his temples, but nowadays some do not accept third-gender devotees.’ His eyes immediately lit up and he said very strongly, ‘

They are rejecting so many people. What to speak of third-gender, they are rejecting practically everyone. But we are accepting those who have been rejected. You can tell anyone to come here and we will accept them.’ Then I asked, ‘But Gurudeva, why is this happening?’ He immediately interjected slowly, but firmly: ‘Because they are rascals! That’s all. Bring anyone you meet here to me. I will accept.’ Then I told Gurudeva that I already knew some nice third-gender devotees who were rejected by ISKCON temples but accepted at his centers. Brajanatha Prabhu (Srila Gurudeva’s secretary) confirmed this. Srila Gurudeva reiterated, ‘Yes, bring them here. We will accept everyone.’

“Srila Narayana Maharaja’s answers to my questions were more than satisfying. His mood of all-inclusiveness was made crystal clear to both my friend and I. Not only was it important to him that everyone is welcome in Krsna consciousness, including the third gender, but—even more so—it was a source of disgust and anger if anyone was being rejected.” by Amara dasa, January 30, 2005)

Go and distribute books for Prabhupada, go out on the xmas marathon, then and only then will you be able to enter the mood of Srila Prabhupadas preaching mission. What is the use of worshipng the beautiful silagrama-sila if you do not enter the preaching mood of Lord Caitanya as shown to us by Srila Prabhupada?? Its simply the latest fad and selfishness!! wakey wakey!

I risk being sacked from my 'santa' work because I put a 'Beyond Birth and Death' Book in EVERY xmas stocking, No-ones going to become introduced to Krishna Consciousness by wishful thinking, pass this on to the mad cook!!

 

"SANKIRTAN ARENA OF PERPETUAL LIFE"

 

 

 

 

"It is not the critic who counts;

nor the man who points out how the strong man stumbled,

or where the doer of deeds could have done better.

 

 

The credit belong to the man who is actually in the arena;

whose face is marred by dust, sweat, blood and tears;

who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again.

 

 

Who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends

himself in a worthy cause.

 

 

Who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement;

and who at the worst,

if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly.

 

 

So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls,

who know neither victory nor defeat."

 

This is the difference between those who preach Krishna Consciousness and those who do not preach

After I read Drutakarma's essay on the origin of the jiva I realized that I didn't belong with ISKCON anymore and I needed to put my faith in Narayana Maharaja and reject ISKCON and the bogus initiation I got from the GBC in 1975.

Settle down, are you not having a good day in Florida?

I didn't.

But, ISKCON fanatics like yourself have shown me the light that Narayan Maharaja is the true living acharya and ISKCON is a deviant cult gone astray from the Gaudiya sampradaya.

 

Now, I understand that Narayana Maharaja is the true successor to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Hearing the sleepervadi heresy being preached all over the internet by some ISKCON nutjobs has turned me into a follower of Narayana Maharaja.

Then follow whole heatedly and chant Hare Krishna. Realist has a problem with 'ISKCON NUTJOBS' as you call them, but in the end we ALL have no one to blame except ourselves. It's your dream.

The impersonalist yogi is only in that imaginary position dreaming in a dreamless state in the impersonal Brahmajyoti due to his restricted nitya-baddha consciousness. He had long, long ago (probably almost an eternity), forgotten completely who he really is as an eternal nitya-siddha devotee of Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned, (NITYA-BADDHA) but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it only appears that we are eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA)’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968,

Srila Prabhupada “This is confirmed in all Vedic literature. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. So, as we are also persons, individual living beings, we are persons, we have got our individuality, we are all individual, similarly the Supreme Truth, the Supreme Absolute, He is also, at the ultimate issue He is a person. But realization of the Personality of Godhead is realization of all the transcendental features like sat, cit, and ananda, in complete vigraha. Gitopanisad by Srila Prabhupada Part Two

Srila Prabhupada “Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that I have nothing to do with this material world and that I am simply Krishna’s servant.- Eternal servant., we break the dream. Similarly, we can break this situation” lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.9.1

No, he is wrong.

All ISKCON book distribution should stop, otherwise more innocent souls like yourself will get sucked into the GBC guru cult and have their spiritual lives ruined forever by the bogus preaching and offensive policy of the ISKCON leadership.

 

Go out and distribute the books of Narayana Maharaja.

At least his reputation hasn't been destroyed by a gang of derelict followers who want to change Guadiya siddhanta and promote homosexuals and pedophiles as God's messengers to mankind.

I thought you never liked Narayana Maharaj? Any, instead of us criticizing ISKCON, why not start your own program of preaching, if you don’t have trust in present day ISKCON. Remember, even Srila Prabhupada never liked staying in the Gaudiya math. You don’t have to be a member of the present version of ISKCON to be a devotee Krishna if you don’t trust their insight and spiritual realizations. But Srila Prabhupada always said books are the basis,

A good point that realist has made is all of us are dream-avardis in the material world

And your answer is when the impersonalist yogi are able to shake off his material biological form and his underlining ethereal or subtle body, the nitya-baddha conscious aspect of ones marginal identity vibrates inactively as a part and parcel of the bright living impersonal Brahmajyoti. That particular light you are taling about is the energy or s'akti of the jiva-tattva.

Bullshit.

Yeah right, go out and distribute books so that people will find out about the Hare Krishna cult and all the child-abuse, crime and power-crazed madness that has gone on in the name of "spreading love of God".

 

Then you can create another enemy of the Hare Krishna movement who was made so by the propaganda policy of a cult that is mad for followers and position.

 

Your book distrubution doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Excuse me my dear friend but realist is right

Srila Prabhupada has said about book distribution: “The word kriyasu, meaning “by manual labor” or “by work,” is important in this verse. One should engage in practical service to the Lord. In our Krsna consciousness movement, all our activities are concentrated upon distributing Krsna literature. This is very important. One may approach any person and induce him to read Krsna literature so that in the future he also may become a devotee. Such activities are recommended in this verse. Such activities will always remind the devotees of the Lord’s lotus feet. By fully concentrating on distributing books for Krsna, one is fully absorbed in Krsna. This is samadhi.” (Bhag.10.2.37)

 

Srila Prabhupada - “Actually we are all ghosts, ...spirits" the only difference being that we have a gross body made of mucus, bile and air, and disembodied spirits have only subtle-ethereal a body made of mind, intelligence and false-ego”. Morning walk in Bombay, India, April 12th 1974

Srila Prabhupada. "........And you have not seen so many things. Does it mean that does not exist? You are researching. You have not seen. As a scientist.........."

Indian man. "I have heard lots of ghost stories, but......."

Srila Prabhupada. "No, No it is not stories. We are hearing from Bhagavata, it is authority. We are not hearing the stories of third class man. We are hearing form Vyasadeva. Vyasadeva............"

Indian man. " But you see, up till now, in my long life of eighty years........."

Srila Prabhupada, "No, No you have not so many experiences. That does not mean these things do not exist. Your experience is not all in all. Don't think like that. So these are existing actually. That is the defect, that you do not accept the authorities. That is the defect. Here Vyasadeva is describing, who is called Vyasadeva, full of all knowledge, and the Bhagavata is a mature experience. We are hearing from him. Why do you not believe? I may not have experience. This ghost means the living entity is subtle life without any material body. That is ghost. When one is very sinful, he does not get the material body. He lives in the subtle body: mind, intelligence and ego. That is ghostly life. And they display. Because they have no body, one cannot see, but they display so many mischief's. That is ghostly life. Seeing or not seeing doesn't matter. Therefore it is enjoined in the Vedanta Sutra, shastra caksusa (see through the bona fide scriptures)."

Indian man. "But it should be proved."

Srila Prabhupada. "It is true because it is spoken by Vyasadeva. How you say it is false? You cannot say that. That is blasphemy."

Indian man. "In olden days there used to be the ghosts and all these things, but now that is gradually............"

Srila Prabhupada. "But gradually..........! That does not mean you have improved very much. Because you do not believe in ghost........................!"

Morning walk in Bombay, India, April 12th 1974

All you nitya-baddha dream-avadis out there in the mahat-tattva and the impersonal Brahmajyoti, wakey wakey stop allowing your thoughts to keep purchasing material vessels off Maha-Vishnu who sleeps and dreams on Ananta Sesa the big gigantic transcendental snakey

 

 

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by realist

 

The mahat-tattva world of the nitya-baddha dream-avardis is only attained when one chooses to mise use their free will and forget Krishna and their own perpetual nitya siddha Krishna Conscious body which is their genuine, authentic and permanent devotional bodly self.

 

 

 

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