HerServant

 

Or perhaps each jiva exists because they are a unique expression of love of God? Love becomes a rainbow of attractions to each of the various unlimited qualities of Sri Krsna to greater and lesser degrees, producing unlimited personalities and lovers, mellows that are generally classified by scholars in five primary rasa groupings. Therefore Krsna's infinite unknowable nature would give rise to unlimited loving entities glorifying Him in every way - although that is not possible; yet maybe it is possible, inconceivably in eternity with infinite associates (we can only hope). Bound to the gunas, we all more or less look the same because our personalities are covered, forgotten to varying degrees. As the mist fogging our real nature is burned away by the soul's innate loving warmth we gradually resume our true role in the dance, and find ourselves everlasting in the sunshine of the eternal pastimes of Vaikuntha, the Kingdom of God.

Very sweet and consistent with western Guru Sadhu Sastric traditions.

Thanks gHari Maharaja!

" Leaving to great and lofty minds the beautiful books which I cannot understand, still less put in practice, I rejoice in my littleness because "only little children and those like them shall be admitted to the Heavenly Banquet". Fortunately, there are many mansions in My Father's house; if there were only those seemingly incomprehensible mansions with their baffling approaches, I should certainly never enter there..." - St. Teresa of Lisieux

santa rasa is a particular relationship with God, one of the several possible natural positions for a living entity. pure santa rasa is experienced only beyond the three modes of material nature.

Santa rasa I would say is experience of the Presence of God without an experience of a relationship of the others (friend, master, etc.).

This santa rasa is experience of Holiness or Energy of God. This can occur here in this place.

Pure santa rasa is a personal experience of God directly in the spiritual sky, but God does not reveal Himself in form of (Master, Friend, Lover, etc.).

God in this case takes a "form of purpose" . For example, what is the relationship between Narshimadeva and Prahlada .. what is the relationship between Moses and "Burning bush"

What is relationship between the person and Ananta Sesha Naga?

What is the relationship between God in the form of Dove and the person?

In these Forms of God, God is doing something for you.

You do not have relationship with Him as a Person, yet your experience of Him is still personal.

Dear friends

Love of God is within each and every one of us. What we seek is pure love of God. Person(al) love of God.

Perfect love of God is our calling. We should always remind ourselves to consider ourselves children of God. The smaller the child the better. Small children are often forgetful of what is expected of them. Do parents love them less because they repeat the same mistakes? The smallest children are most favored. When they do something wrong, they don't run and hide like older children. Rather, they cry and run into the arms of the mother of father.

We talk of Krsna, chanting our rounds, keeping the 4 regs, but what of love? How do we speak of love?

We are called to surrender. Surrender what? Our senses? Our thoughts? Our waking? Our dreaming? Our sleep?

We cannot comprehend. I tell you all as witness of the Savior Himself, I struggled and continue to struggle to love, but I know His Love is real.

Love can be found in the person of God and His associates and nowhere else. So we must meditate on His Divine Lila. We must meditate on those saints who love Him.

If we cannot understand or experience love directly, we can be witness to the loving exchange between God and His perfect devotee.

Between Jesus and Krsna, Father and Son, between Krsna and Radha, between Mary the Mother of Jesus and her rapt ecstatic love of the Christ child she carries insider her.

We can see and we can feel.

And this feeling gift is the gift of God Himself! By His Grace we can send it up to Him with sincerity of heart. By His grace we can send His very love to Him.

We can understand that this gift of Love is in fact, the exchange between Father and Perfect Son ... Paramatma Himself.

When we look in our hearts by directing our meditation to the heart, we feel His love and His love ascends into our waking, it purifies our dreaming.

Yes, we then long for only Him in every aspect of our existence (consciousness). From our heart we send up what He has given.

But it is only His inconceivable Mercy that our Hearts Love, He Himself wells up and envelopes our mind and thereby places us at the feet of His Personal form.

There love becomes a weapon that stills the mind and obliterates doubt. We know that He is God, the One Who Is, the Lord of Lords, Savior of this world and all the worlds of the Entire Cosmic Manifestation.

He is a real living Person, having been with us all along, and we can finally see that our real identity is revealed by the rasa exchange between Him.

Yes. Receive Him. Tell Him you love Him. Surrender!

Peace and love,

HerServant and yours.

if you put it that way then there is no such thing as religion because Science wants proof but not miracles. Right? Many believers in Krishna feel his presence and many believers of Christ feel his presence and subsequently we also here of miracles as well. My meaning was that if we try to find proofs, we loose the essence because instead of philosophical discussion it is going to be a history lecture whenever we talk about faith.

Jai Shri Krishna

Hare Krsna! Jesu Ki Jaya!

Sopatel is wise. Any number of arguments can be made easily without proof. While I think it is possible that Jesus was in India, it does not mean that the Savior is any less than Savior of this World and All the Worlds of the entire cosmic manifestation.

Regarding which religion came from which religion. We should not be biased one way or another. There is merit in accepting cultural expression of the Truth coming from various perspectives.

However, there is more historical documentation regarding western tradition than there exists in the east. Therefore there is actually much more historical evidence that Hinduism came from Judeo Christian traditions. I don't believe either came from either but rather, there existed in ancient times ONE global bhakti tradition based on the worship of Radha Krsna (known in the west as Rhoda Kouros and other variants)

The reader should take the following as an example :

This site, http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/heliodorus-column.html claims that Heliodorus, a greek, worshipped Vasudeva and hence westerners were influenced by Vaisnavas.

The same site does not mention that a "Heliodorus" of the same rank and same time period IS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE, and in fact, this Heliodorus takes a solemn vow at the Temple of Jerusalem to proclaim the Lord's Glories, after Krsna Balarama appear to him.

The Heliodorus Column

An archaeological discovery proves that there were western followers of Vedic principles twenty-two centuries ago

By Jack Hebner & Steven Rosen

A reproduction of the inscription, along with the transliteration and translation of the ancient Brahmi text, is given here as it appeared in the Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society.

1) Devadevasu Va[sude]vasa Garudadhvajo ayam

2) Karito ia Heliodorena bhaga

3) Vatena Diyasa putrena Takhasilakena

4) Yonadatena agatena maharajasa

5) Amtalikitasa upa[m]ta samkasam-rano

6) Kasiput[r]asa [bh]agabhadrasa tratarasa

7) Vasena [chatu]dasena rajena vadhamanasa

" This Garuda-column of Vasudeva (Visnu), the god of gods, was erected here by Heliodorus, a worshipper of Vishnu, the son of Dion, and an inhabitant of Taxila, who came as Greek ambassador from the Great King Antialkidas to King Kasiputra Bhagabhadra, the Savior, then reigning prosperously in the fourteenth year of his kingship."

1) Trini amutapadani-[su] anuthitani

2) nayamti svaga damo chago apramado

"Three immortal precepts (footsteps)..when practiced lead to heaven-self restraint, charity, conscientiousness."

From the inscriptions it is seems clear Heliodorus was influenced by Vedic principles that he could be considered to be a Vaisnava, a follower or worshipper of Visnu. Professor Kunja Govinda Goswami of Calcutta University concludes that Heliodorus " was well acquainted with the texts dealing with the Bhagavat [Vaisnava] relgion." (6)

To our knowledge, Heliodorus is the earliest Westerner on record to adopt Vedic principles. But some scholars, most notably A.L. Basham (7) and Thomas Hopkins, are of the opinion that Heliodorus was not the only Greek to adopt such principles. Hopkins, chairman of the department of religious studies at Franklin and Marshall College, has said " Heliodorus was presumably not the only foreigner who converted to Vaisnava devotional practices -- although he might have been the only one who erected a column, at least one that is still extant. Certainly there must have been many others." (8)

As you can see above, Mr. Rosen and Mr. Hebner conclude (to the best of their knowledge) that Heliodorus was 1st westerner to adopt Vedic principles. That is an honest conclusion. But the Hebrew scriptures held sacred by Catholic and Orthodox Christians, indicate that Heliodorus was "converted" by GOD to Vedic principles, when GOD appeared at the Temple of Jerusalem! The description of God seems to be that of Krsna and Balarama with Kalki!

Read the following story in the bible:

2 Machabees Chapter 3

 

 

Therefore, when the holy city was inhabited with all peace, and the laws as yet were very well kept, because of the godliness of Onias, the high priest and the hatred his soul had of evil,

 

It came to pass that even the kings themselves and the princes esteemed the place worthy of the highest honour, and glorified the temple with very great gifts:

 

So that Seleucus, king of Asia, allowed out of his revenues all the charges belonging to the ministry of the sacrifices.

 

But one Simon, of the tribe of Benjamin, who was appointed overseer of the temple, strove in opposition to the high priest, to bring about some unjust thing in the city.

 

And when he could not overcome Onias, he went to Apollonius, the son of Tharseas, who at that time was governor of Celesyria, and Phenicia:

 

And told him, that the treasury in Jerusalem was full of immense sums of money, and the common store was infinite, which did not belong to the account of the sacrifices: and that it was possible to bring all into the king's hands.

 

Now when Apollonius had given the king notice concerning the money that he was told of, he called for Heliodorus, who had the charge over his affairs, and sent him with commission to bring him the foresaid money.

 

So Heliodorus forthwith began his journey, under a colour of visiting the cities of Celesyria and Phenicia, but indeed to fulfil the king's purpose.

 

And when he was come to Jerusalem, and had been courteously received in the city by the high priest, he told him what information had been given concerning the money: and declared the cause for which he was come: and asked if these things were so indeed.

 

Then the high priest told him that these were sums deposited, and provisions for the subsistence of the widows and the fatherless:

 

And that some part of that which wicked Simon had given intelligence of belonged to Hircanus, son of Tobias, a man of great dignity; and that the whole was four hundred talents of silver, and two hundred of gold.

 

But that to deceive them who had trusted to the place and temple which is honoured throughout the whole world, for the reverence and holiness of it, was a thing which could not by any means be done.

 

But he, by reason of the orders he had received from the king, said, that by all means the money must be carried to the king.

 

So on the day he had appointed, Heliodorus entered in to order this matter. But there was no small terror throughout the whole city.

 

And the priests prostrated themselves before the altar in their priests' vestments, and called upon him from heaven, who made the law concerning things given to be kept, that he would preserve them safe, for them that had deposited them.

 

Now whosoever saw the countenance of the high priest, was wounded in heart: for his face, and the changing of his colour, declared the inward sorrow of his mind.

 

For the man was so compassed with sadness and horror of the body, that it was manifest to them that beheld him, what sorrow he had in his heart.

 

Others also came flocking together out of their houses, praying and making public supplication, because the place was like to come into contempt.

 

And the women, girded with haircloth about their breasts, came together in the streets. And the virgins also that were shut up, came forth, some to Onias, and some to the walls, and others looked out of the windows.

 

And all holding up their hands towards heaven made supplication.

 

For the expectation of the mixed multitude, and of the high priest, who was in an agony, would have moved any one to pity.

 

And these indeed called upon almighty God, to preserve the things that had been committed to them safe and sure for those that had committed them.

 

But Heliodorus executed that which he had resolved on, himself being present in the same place with his guard about the treasury.

 

But the spirit of the Almighty God gave a great evidence of his presence, so that all that had presumed to obey him, falling down by the power of God, were struck with fainting and dread.

 

For there appeared to them a horse, with a terrible rider upon him, adorned with a very rich covering: and he ran fiercely and struck Heliodorus with his fore feet, and he that sat upon him seemed to have armour of gold.

Moreover there appeared two other young men, beautiful and strong, bright and glorious, and in comely apparel: who stood by him, on either side, and scourged him without ceasing with many stripes.

And Heliodorus suddenly fell to the ground, and they took him up, covered with great darkness, and having put him into a litter, they carried him out.

So he that came with many servants, and all his guard, into the aforesaid treasury, was carried out, no one being able to help him, the manifest power of God being known.

And he indeed, by the power of God, lay speechless, and without all hope of recovery.

But they praised the Lord, because he had glorified his place: and the temple, that a little before was full of fear and trouble, when the Almighty Lord appeared, was filled with joy and gladness.

Then some of the friends of Heliodorus forthwith begged of Onias, that he would call upon the Most High to grant him his life, who was ready to give up the ghost.

So the high priest, considering that the king might perhaps suspect that some mischief had been done to Heliodorus by the Jews, offered a sacrifice of health for the recovery of the man.

And when the high priest was praying, the same young men in the same clothing stood by Heliodorus, and said to him: Give thanks to Onias the priest: because for his sake the Lord hath granted thee life.

And thou having been scourged by God, declare unto all men the great works and the power of God. And having spoken thus, they appeared no more.

So Heliodorus, after he had offered a sacrifice to God, and made great vows to him, that had granted him life, and given thanks to Onias, taking his troops with him, returned to the king.

And he testified to all men the works of the great God, which he had seen with his own eyes.

The above BIBLE record can be authenticated as one of the oldest scriptures in existence. AND it can be claimed it is the oldest historical reference of GOD appearing as two beautiful youthful men!!!

Peace,

HerServant and yours.

Thanks. I asked because I think there was also a Satchitananda swami once upon a time. I was wondering if he was that one or the Sachinananda swami you speak of .

Thanks for the clarification.

"Judge not lest ye be judged" - Matt 7:6

"So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself." - Matt. 27:5-8

Don't hang yourself over your offenses. We also must renounce passing judgement over our own misgivings.

Your question speaks to the very core of Christian faith in Jesus. We can't do it on our own. It is Jesus who is the perfect devotee. Everyone else falls down.

The saints enter into His perfection and He becomes them. Until such time we seek forgiveness constantly in the form of confession of sin and penance.

This mercy is there in the confessional, but the world mocks the catholic practice. When I was a boy, every Saturday afternoon any Catholic church I visited, there would be a long line of people standing in line to go to confession to a priest.

Nowadays .. nada .. almost no one goes. But could you actually go to the same confessor week after week and confess the same sin over and over. Or would these people be going to confession every week to receive the grace and strength to make it through another week without surrendering to the same weakness again and again.

Go to confession. If not to a priest, to your spiritual master or director and tell him your sins. Remember that Jesus Christ is the "Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world"

Is your sin greater than the "sins of the world"? No.

Once forgiven, He can even give you the power to forget your sins.

It's a fact that the computing power of todays toys and games have thousands of times the computing power as the computers they used back during the Apollo mission.

 

The computers they had back then were less that what they make toys out of today.

 

But, I am not sure they didn't go to the Moon.

 

I have a cousin who was a top engineer with NASA during the Apollo missions.

He performed the final pre-flight inspection of the space capsule before launch.

 

If NASA didn't go to the Moon they did a good job of fooling hundreds of engineers that worked on the project.

But what about the alien moon bases on the dark side of the moon? The aliens have blackmailed everyone. It has even been documented on TV

see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrR4T6OfG7U

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O.B.I.T.

Do you honestly to the view that it is possible, in this day and age, for hundreds and thousands of smart, high-IQ, dedicated science professionals to be bought so easily, and persuaded to not breathe a word about arguably THE greatest conspiracy in the entire history of humankind for fortysome years? Doesn't sound plausible to me.

 

This is also why I find Michael A. Cremo's work on the presumed antiquity of homo sapiens sapiens fundamentally flawed. Archaeology is another discipline where practitioners are inherently more inclined to disagree with one another rather than the other way round. To think that archaelogists and palaeo-anthropologists around the planet intuitively kind of "bury" all evidence for the supposed extremely old age of our species requires a leap of faith of such monumental magnitude that, I for one, am not prepared to take.

Well I have heard that many ISKCON devotees (and maybe sanyassi) were consuming "mind expanding" foodstuffs in the 60s and 70s.

They can simply see things that we cannot!

Dear

 

How could Surdas Or Draupdi Or Arjuna Or Mira get the Love i.e. KRISHNA ??

 

LOKESHAV

choose Him over all the material riches of the world and give him the reins to control the horses of our chariot ? (give Him control over our senses (horses)? ?

HS and yours

So I know this is the Swami I am thinking of:

I have questions that I would like to have answered regarding HH Sacinananda Swami.

What is his karmi name? All the other ISKCON swamis karmi names can be found. What is his?

Also, please explain his relationship with Prithu das Adhikari?

I bow before your superior knowledge, HerServant.

.. now let's not get carried away here .. I am not worthy to touch your feet maharaja ..

but I thought I'd just throw that last blurb out there since it seems possible that someone could prove or disprove if the mirrors are really on the moon

Well, no doubt, these will sound like excuses, but these pulses may be very very brief (especially if it's a higher-power laser)--on the order of nanoseconds, which would be hard to catch on film. Also, they may not use *visible* light.

 

What I find amazing (almost hard to believe) is that the lasers could aim at (and track since both bodies (the moon and the earth) are in motion) such a small target over such a large distance.

You don't have to catch on film but rather digitally. Also you can "time ensemble average" since pulses can be fired periodically. So techniques like Time Delay Spectroscopy may be used to create/render images from an average of signals of known spectrum.

For example, the speed of light, being known, the pulse width, the time interval between pulses is known. So if you continually pulse a laser at the moon, and capture a digital image of the moons surface at time intervals equal to the pulse period + the calculated delay of round trip speed of light, then over time, all noise will average out and only the reflected signal light will be captured.

The light does not have to be in the visible spectrum (it could be infrared for example).

Even if a high energy laser not producing pulses in the infrared or visible, one could employ Infrared Heterodyne Spectrometry:

The IRHS works on the same principle as the heterodyne radio receiver. Infrared light from the telescope is mixed with an infrared laser on a HgCdTe detector chip. What is retrieved is the difference frequency between the laser and the incoming signal, which is in the radio regime. An RF filter bank is used to analyze the resulting double-sideband (folded) spectrum. Since IRHS is such a high-resolution instrument, individual spectral line shapes in a planet's spectrum can be fully resolved. This is very important in the retrieval of altitude (pressure) information in the atmospheres of the planets. It is also important for the measurement of doppler shifting of lines due to winds present in other planetary atmospheres.

(note: IRHS was the topic of my senior thesis)

Now between TDS measurements and IRHS if necessary, one could produce a "time lapsed" average of the signal coming from the reflective surface, and even shift it into the visible spectrum for viewing purposes.

IF the signal could not be detected, then neither could the claimed distance measurements signals which are measuring the moon's distance and movement.

So any observatory should be able to independently determine if these mirrors are on the moon.

So there is the challenge to anyone claiming or not claiming moon mirrors left by the Apollo missions team actually exist.

Produce the image.

When we look at the sky at night do we see the moon or some other planet like Rahu? I have a lot of trouble explaining and understanding the whole lunar controversy. I am willing to accept that the lunar mission landed elsewhere other than the moon. I just feel like a stubborn idiot when trying to defend Srila Prabhupada's comments on the matter by using the theory that the whole landing was filmed in some fake stage. The hard bit is to accept that the lunar mission traveled towards the moon that we see in the night sky, but didn’t get there.

Srila Prabhupada, based on his firm conviction in the Vedic truth, challenged the lunar-mission on two accounts: (1) it is not possible to reach the heavenly moon by mechanical means; (2) the moon is not a barren desert devoid of life.

According to Vedic evidence, the moon is counted among the heavenly planets and is inhabited by heavenly denizens who live for 10,000 years and is presided by the Deity Candra; only those with much pious credits can enter the moon, and that only after attaining a suitable body fit to live there. Even if humans made the effort for mechanical travel towards the moon, we are dependent on the authority of Candra to actually reach there. Therefore, Srila Prabhupada was convinced that man could not have landed on the moon.

One explanation offered by Prabhupada was perhaps they were deluded and diverted by higher authorities to the invisible planet Rahu (incidentally, Rahu is connected to the ascending node of the moon, astronomically.) He also offered other possible explanations, including one that the whole thing might have been faked (which, by the way, is a prominent proposal by several modern writers).

In any case, the basic principle that Prabhupada wanted us to understand is the unreliability of empirical methods which are always open to question. At present, we do not have sufficient empiric facts to prove either way, while based on Vedic assertions, to the contrary, he urged us to think and question rather than blindly accept the claim of man landing on the moon and finding it lifeless.

One of the scientist-disciples of Prabhupada, Sadaputa dasa, who has done much work in laying the scientific framework for understanding the cosmological materials from Bhagavatam, explores this subject from a higher-dimensional perspective: A higher dimensional realm may have a 3-dimensional location, just as a three-dimensional object has its location in two-dimensional space. For example, if one needs to reach a certain office in Manhattan, one could move up, down and across the grid of streets and arrive at the right address, and yet may not be able to perceive the office one is looking for; to reach the actual destination, they may have to further move 50 stories in the vertical dimension, and a being whose sense-perception is restricted to two-dimensions only cannot access this region. ( Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy by Sadaputa Dasa, Ch 3)

 

This is a crude example but by way of drawing a parallel, even supposing that astronauts might have reached the phenomenal moon which the event itself is not beyond question even so, they still could not have made the higher-dimensional travel necessary to perceive the moon's heavenly inhabitants and surroundings. Being restricted in the gross realm, they would have had to return with the impressions of a lifeless planet.

I understand your position and reasoning fully.

We must ask, "To be a bonafide Acharya, Does Srila Prabhupada have to be an authority on every topic or only be an authority on Bhakti Yoga?"

We cannot reach the moon in a human body. Can we by mechanical means? I've always believed this is possible.

What we would actually observe on the moon, with its gravity, and atmosphere, etc., is subjective (to our senses).

We can ask is it possible if invisible beings exist here? The devotees would say yes. This is possible. There are demons or ghosts here. Then we can ask: Is it possible that invisible beings exist on the moon?

If an invisible person can exist, then why not an invisible tree?

HS and yours.

If the information below is true, then it should be possible to take a telescopic photo of the lunar reflector array reflections while being "pinged" by laser pulses. I can find no such photo. This should be easy enough for the scientific community to produce without excuses.

What Neil & Buzz Left on the Moon

 

by Dr. Tony Phillips

 

A cutting-edge science experiment left behind in the Sea of Tranquility by Apollo 11 astronauts is still running today.

 

July 20, 2004: The most famous thing Neil Armstrong left on the moon 35 years ago is a footprint, a boot-shaped depression in the gray moondust. Millions of people have seen pictures of it, and one day, years from now, lunar tourists will flock to the Sea of Tranquility to see it in person. Peering over the rails ... "Hey, mom, is that the first one?"

 

Will anyone notice, 100 feet away, something else Armstrong left behind?

 

 

The Apollo 11 lunar laser ranging retro-reflector array.

 

Ringed by footprints, sitting in the moondust, lies a 2-foot wide panel studded with 100 mirrors pointing at Earth: the "lunar laser ranging retro-reflector array." Apollo 11 astronauts Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong put it there on July 21, 1969, about an hour before the end of their final moonwalk. Thirty-five years later, it's the only Apollo science experiment still running.

 

University of Maryland physics professor Carroll Alley was the project's principal investigator during the Apollo years, and he follows its progress today. "Using these mirrors," explains Alley, "we can 'ping' the moon with laser pulses and measure the Earth-moon distance very precisely. This is a wonderful way to learn about the moon's orbit and to test theories of gravity."

 

Here's how it works: A laser pulse shoots out of a telescope on Earth, crosses the Earth-moon divide, and hits the array. Because the mirrors are "corner-cube reflectors," they send the pulse straight back where it came from. "It's like hitting a ball into the corner of a squash court," explains Alley. Back on Earth, telescopes intercept the returning pulse--"usually just a single photon," he marvels.

 

The round-trip travel time pinpoints the moon's distance with staggering precision: better than a few centimeters out of 385,000 km, typically.

 

Targeting the mirrors and catching their faint reflections is a challenge, but astronomers have been doing it for 35 years. A key observing site is the McDonald Observatory in Texas where a 0.7 meter telescope regularly pings reflectors in the Sea of Tranquility (Apollo 11), at Fra Mauro (Apollo 14) and Hadley Rille (Apollo 15), and, sometimes, in the Sea of Serenity. There's a set of mirrors there onboard the parked Soviet Lunokhud 2 moon rover--maybe the coolest-looking robot ever built.

http://chandrayaan.wordpress.com/8/11/

look at this! A Moon-craft!

The night cools the surface of the Moon to -150 C and -230 C.

In the day, the temperature of the Moon averages 107 C, although it can rise as high as 130 C.

exactly. So man cannot know an existence on the moon but rather only an existence inside a spacesuit on the moon. Is that reaching the moon and partaking in "moon life" ?

Did man land on the moon, or did a man inside a spacesuit land on the moon?

Can a man live on the moon?

Very nice presentation on this thread, HerServant!!

 

One small point of semantics. We do not make "prasadam". Rather, we prepare "bhoga" for the Lord, offer it, and then accept the Lord's remnants as "prasadam". It's a subtle but important distinction.

 

Dina Doyal!!!

I understand. Thank you for the clarification.

Why do you assume I haven't (I'm not saying that I *have*, merely questioning your grounds for making such assumptions)?

Is Lokeshev's question figurative rather than direct? I think the question is for "you" as in you plural, i.e. everyone. Maybe I am mistaken. Let's see.

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Amen!

DEAR, YOU HAVE TO LEAVE YOUR "I" ALSO. AND BECOME "AKARTA"

TO GO NEARER TO KRISHNA, ... SINCE HE IS THE GOD OF LOVE. AND HE DOESNT BELIEVE IN TWO IDENTITIES, .... FINALLY YOU BOTH HAVE TO BE ONE.

Yes. Everything is His. Everything belongs to Him. This is why the christian mystics say they become one with Jesus Christ, ... that they become Him, or rather, He becomes them.

Yes our false "I" sense must die, but our true "I"dentity can ONLY be understood in relationship .

"He must increase, but I must decrease." - John 3:30

As He increases, we begin to understand our true "I"dentity. That is, our only reality, our only existence is in relationship with Him, which will not be fully revealed until we enter heaven.

See what love the Father has bestowed on us that we may be called the children of God. Yet so we are. The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Beloved, we are God's children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. - 1st John3:1-2

In the witness of His revelation, that is, in witness to Him who reveals Himself in name and form (nama rupa), we are conscious of our identity in relationship to Him.

These relationship are as described by the Vaisnava acharyas as:

Santa rasa, - spirit, in God's presence (neutrality)

Dasya-rasa - Servitorship

Sakhya-rasa - Friendship

Vatsalya-rasa - Parental Affection

Madhurya-rasa - Conjugal Love

Having any of these intimate relations with God, the jiva-soul person understands his real self in only in relationship to God. Achintya-Bheda-Abheda , simultaneous one and different.

For us surrendered in the line of Jesus, we approach Him as perfect "son", perfect soul by meditation on His lila.

"Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in remembrance of me. - Luke 22:19

This is my body, means "my life" , "my lila" and therefore, we are to break bread together in rememberance of Jesus transcendental pastimes. As such He grants access to His transcendental manifestation.

This is what is meant by christian saying "Jesus gives Himself" for the redemption of others. He distributes Himself. In this conception "He" is none other than God Himself in the form of servant, He is the Incarnation of Dasya-rasa - Servitorship.

But He is showing other rasas as well. So we go to Him, because we trust Him as guru.

""They questioned, ‘What is your opinion of Lord Jesus Christ?’ and I said, ‘He preached God consciousness. He’s our guru." - Srila Prabhupada, Srimad Bhagavatam lecture, 1974"

see: http://www.all-creatures.org/murti/asource-17.html

So by meditation on Jesus Lila, by remembrance of Jesus, we enter the life of Christ adn become one with Him:

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine grower.

He takes away every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and everyone that does he prunes so that it bears more fruit.

You are already pruned because of the word that I spoke to you.

Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me.

I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing.

Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned.

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.

By this is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit and become my disciples.

As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love.

If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

"I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.

This is my commandment: love one another as I love you.

No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends.

You are my friends if you do what I command you.

I no longer call you slaves, because a slave does not know what his master is doing. I have called you friends, because I have told you everything I have heard from my Father.

It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.

This I command you: love one another.

"If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first.

If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own; but because you do not belong to the world, and I have chosen you out of the world, the world hates you.

Remember the word I spoke to you, 'No slave is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.

And they will do all these things to you on account of my name, because they do not know the one who sent me.

He is the perfect Son of God.

Ok, I think you just answered my question .

 

 

Thank you.

 

I guess surrendering to Him is authentic.

If you are making prasadam, chant the Holy Name but also surrender to Him your senses.

When your heart becomes saturated with loving service, you also lose your desire to taste; then He has tasted, He has eaten.

O Divine Lord, How sweet is the nectar of Your loving presence. How sweet it is to offer our actions and our senses in Your service.

Peace and love,

HerServant and yours.

I don't even have any access to any of his dear servants. Besides, his dear servants are going to be in heaven with Him.

 

You start to realize the wretched situation we are in, even if you want to show love to him, he is invisible.

 

Most of these activities seem as if we are pretending He cares. Pretending He eats when we offer him food, or pretending He is there as a vigraha.

 

When did you ever see Him taste any morsel of food? when did you ever see Him come down to hug you when you are down in the dumps? When did He ever atleast blink in the vigraha for that matter!

When did you ever see Him taste any morsel of food?

When I offered/surrendered to Him my taste sense.

when did you ever see Him come down to hug you when you are down in the dumps?

When I sought Him in my heart. "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" - Matt. 6:21

When did He ever atleast blink in the vigraha for that matter!

 

When I listened and heard His Holy Name.

Redsox ..

We are servants here on this forum. I confess, I'm not much of a servant and not a worthy servant. But still trying and aspiring to serve Him.

Are you the perfect one? .. or are you one to be perfected by Jesus Christ?

... I am off the deep-end now.

 

nice to know we are in the same club

The week after the departure of Srila Govinda Maharaja, the mood at the Seva Ashram is a bit subdued (somber even). Sripad Janardan Maharaja speaks heartfelt, gentle words of comfort for the devotees and guests.

 

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Link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8949838591698664026

I met Janardan Maharaja 1998 in the soquel Seva Ashram .. the very place of this video. Yudamanju introduced me to him at that time. We talked a bit about the connection of the Holy Spirit and Paramatma.

Another time, I got the darshan of Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Dev-Goswami Maharaj in the upstairs of the guest house. I prostrated myself at the doorway and when I looked up His Holiness was motioning to me (with his hand) to come sit next to him (closest to him).

Some of the devotees that were waiting there a long time for his darshan, I could tell got disturbed that I "hijacked" the "best spot".

But it was peaceful. I can still hear his voice utter "Hare Krsna".

HerServant and yours.