HerServant

One of my anscestors ran with a Nrsimhadeva idol from Goa, so he wouldnt become Baptised.. Indeed the book on which they were trying to do this was the same that u are referring to correlate Christianity with viashnawism..You see what I mean...I am not trying to offend here, but presenting a point , I mean SPB has in many instances given signal of how, a vaishnawa is against Islam eg: when he was talking about Nehru, who was more near to Mohamdeens than vaishnawas...

 

hari bol

I respect your position. Here is the "tricky" issue as I see it:

If a "Christian" seeker on the path to find God, but has some faith in Jesus already ... if this person encounters a holy Vaisnava or the Vaisnava scriptures, this person will be intitially confused.

This is because, what little faith this person already has in Jesus will be challenged. Should I worship Jesus? Is Jesus God? or Should I worship Krsna ?

It becomes confusing.

But this phenomenon should not frighten us, but rather challenge us to strive to be a better more sincere devotee.

Wasn't one of Sri Chaitanya's followers absorbed in the worship of Rama, so much so, that "he must have been Hanuman in a previous life"?

So someone in the presence of Sri Chaitanya exhibited the same tendency .. to run around Goa with the Nrsimhadeva idol so Jesus could catch him.

Think about it.

But to your point... we have to really work hard to cultivate our faith. For me, I am a servant of Jesus.

I pray I am never removed from His feet. Reading Srimad Bhagavatam only brings me closer to Him.

That is how it is for me.

 

The fact is Jesus has passed the batton on to a new generation, a new Religion to the West. There is no need to read the Bible anymore now that we have the Srimad Bhagavatam etc

Actually, I don't have much objection to the above statements.

I think Jesus, from the beginning passed the batton to His disciples, and my studies have taught me that this part of the importance of parampara.

I also believe that Srimad Bhagavatam is a sacred and holy book, or as its title Srimad Bhagavatam states: "The Holy Book of God"

I also believe that a person should develop their faith in one authentic tradition, and not study the faith of an another tradition too much.

When one's faith in the Lord is firmly established, then it is possible to study teachings outside of one's own tradition.

You may ask, "why study Jesus?" if you are a Vaisnava. The same exact question is asked of me from Christians regarding study of "Srimad Bhagavatam", i.e. "why study SB if you have bible?"

My answer is simple.

1. I desired to study both because I want to know about everything that God, the Almighty Lord and Father revealed to the people on this planet.

2. After sincere, though imperfect (due to my limitations) study, I have concluded that the two traditions (Jesus' and Krsna's) are meant to be understood TOGETHER.

If you are a religious, and perhaps an initiated devotee of Krsna's cult, at some point in time, you will be confronted with the revelation of Jesus. It may be from friend, classmate, evangelist, or family member. You will be asked for a sincere opinion about Jesus. Not a religious opinion. Not who you think He is in a theological sense, but as a teacher. If your answer is not sincere, then you will discredit the integrity of your own line, particularly if your audience is educated.

On the other hand, if you are a Christian of any particular cult (sect), and truly desire to follow Jesus, particularly in this "Information Age", you sincerely have to dig deep to find the real, and often "hidden" meanings in the bible. A sincere inquiry will bring you to the Vedas, and by the Vedas, many mysteries of Jesus' teachings are brought to light.

I don't disagree that the Srimad Bhagavatam contains the "creme de la creme" of Spiritual Science. However, it was not possible for me to understand anything in Srimad Bhagavatam without Jesus (remember I am a lifelong catholic and growing up in the cult of Mary and surrounded by Marian devotees)

But as AncientMariner recently posted "The Fame of Jesus is Indestructible"

It is a fact. And as the eastern world becomes more and more industrialized, the questions about Jesus (from Vaisnavas, Shavaites, Advaitist, Buddhists, will continue to grow).

I maintain therefore, this is a good thread for many of us.

If it "shakes the faith" of some who read it, then please stop reading! And I would encourage you to stick with what gives you peace.

For me, I have to continue on this road, as my prayer has been that Son reveal the Father. So I surrender my heart and mind to the feet of Jesus and leave to Him to reveal the mysteries of Srimad Bhagavatam.

Do not give thought for what you will eat or what you will wear; just seek the Kingdom of God, and all these things will be added unto you.

 

Just seek the Kingdom of God and all these other relationships will be perfect.

 

Just seek the Kingdom of God and let His will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Don't water it down - find the Kingdom of life everlasting. This is Krsna consciousness; this is the Good News Jesus brought. Don't water it down and cheat yourself out of the Kingdom. First the Kingdom, always.

 

Amen

Hare Bol! Another perfect "bit" from gHari maharaja .. thanks bro!

Hare Krsna

Guru Saddhu Sastra GSS

Again .. sorry to be offensive with the extreme take on "akashic record" .. again my problem is not the concept or idea, or even whether it is real, but rather, the idea seems to have originated with the mayavadis.

The other reason I took such a strong position is to "prove" that Srila Bhakti Vinod Thakur, who by all indications was a living saint, was introduced to non authentic Christian literature (and in some case given to him by "christian" missionaries)

Therefore, he is not an authorative source on Christian philosophy, nor does he have to be. A saint is not omniscient, .. he doesn't have to "be God" and know every aspect of God's manifestations.

Even on his own, he managed to cut through what he thought was "Christianity" and find his own conclusions about Jesus the Lord.

So I picked on "Akashic record" as an indicator that the Aquarian Gospel is a "bogus" representation of Christian GSS

Aquarian Gospel may be interesting, .. it may have insights, in may even contain in some part the Truth, but it is not bonafide, and as such, it must be read with caution ..

So again my point, is that as Holy and Saintly as Srila Bhakti Vinod Thakur was, he should not be taken as authorative on Christianity, nor should Sridhar Maharaja

I know that is scary to a few folks on this forum, but neither claim to be Krsna (Omnicient) and therefore, neither are ALL knowing.

What can be said is that they can speak authoratively on Gaudiya Vaisnavism and the Holy Scriptures of the Vaisnavas.

Because Sridhar Maharaja didn't have a complete of Jesus and Christianity, does not make his comments incorrect, .. but prove his comments are also incomplete.

The fact that they are not omniscient all knowing, does not detract one bit from their sainthood

1 And again he entered into Capharnaum after some days. 2 And it was heard that he was in the house. And many came together, so that there was no room: no, not even at the door. And he spoke to them the word. 3 And they came to him, bringing one sick of the palsy, who was carried by four. 4 And when they could not offer him unto him for the multitude, they uncovered the roof where he was: and opening it, they let down the bed wherein the man sick of the palsy lay. 5 And when Jesus had seen their faith, he saith to the sick of the palsy: Son, thy sins are forgiven thee. 6 And there were some of the scribes sitting there and thinking in their hearts: 7 Why doth this man speak thus? He blasphemeth. Who can forgive sins, but God only? 8 Which Jesus presently knowing in his spirit that they so thought within themselves, saith to them: Why think you these things in your hearts? 9 Which is easier, to say to the sick of the palsy: Thy sins are forgiven thee; or to say: Arise, take up thy bed and walk? 10 But that you may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins (he saith to the sick of the palsy): 11 I say to thee: Arise. Take up thy bed and go into thy house. 12 And immediately he arose and, taking up his bed, went his way in the sight of all: so that all wondered and glorified God, saying: We never saw the like.

Jesus preaches the word, forgives sin (heals the heart) , then heals the body. As a result of His preaching of ( forgiving, healing ) "all wondered (contemplated upon) and glorified God"

Vaisnava or not a Vaisnava?

Jesu Cristo Died to be re-born = You are the soul not the body

 

The Postings by herservant are fervent and demonstrate a devotional sentiment that is admirable in its self--but lacking in proper scholarship.

 

One must consult the original Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew original text(s) inorder to better find hidden spiritual parallel maxims.

 

The glory of Srila Prabhupada is that he provides us with pristine versions of ancient text that heretofore was unobtainable, thus paving a way for countless 'sanskrit' scholars. Linguistically, we Vaishnava intellectuals are tired of combing though arcane texts that seem to be convaluted from the almost every word--so much fluff with so little nectar to derive for the effort.

 

Since Avataras appear according to time, place and mentality of the general population--it is my opinion that the meanings behind the advent and earthly pastimes of our Favorite Boddhisattva: Jesu Cristo was plain and simple as per the common polulace and an era that preceeded him and especially for the era proceeding him:

 

"Jesus died and rose from the dead" -- this is the sum and substance of his buisness here on earth 2000 years ago.

 

this is beause:

The first rule for beginner of Yoga life is:

"We are not this material body, we are spirit souls in this material world".

 

Thus, any simply and uneducated common person living in the Roman empire and throughout the known world at that time would be forced to reconcile the gosple of Christ's pastimes and immediately conceed that 'the soul is not temporal but transcendental, etc etc etc., and all conceeded with nothing other than faith to anchor this Philosophcal maxim'--such a thing is on its on strength enough to set the course of history for the proceeding two centuries . . .

 

Anyone who disputes this simply must look at the example of Jusus Christ.

 

"A soul is a soul is a soul is a soul."

 

"What's in a name? That which we call a soul

By any other name would smell as sweet."

ys,

Bhaktajan

.... but the subject of the thread is "Is Jesus Vaisnava?"

I don't profess or desire to prove something about religion (e.g. Christianity).

From my limited understanding, the Vaisnava is beyond religion.

So this thread aims to answer the question: "Is Jesus Vaisnava?" or is He not Vaisnava.

I have selected the Gospel of Mark as a reference text to understand the Personality of Jesus because the Gospel of Mark is considered the oldest.

So I will continue to ask if Jesus' teachings and His life are Vaisnava.

Why Christ died is another subject.

OK .. I understand your point. Perhaps I was a bit harsh .. but I don't think the notion of "Akashic Record" is any GSS .. I could be mistaken.

Actually I heard of the Akashic record decades ago and I certainly wasn't offended or concerned.

I concede, it in an of itself is not Mayavadi, but there are a lot of mayavadi works that reference it .. that would be my point

21 And they entered into Capharnaum, and forthwith upon the sabbath

days going into the synagogue (from sanga), he taught them.

22 And they were astonished at his doctrine. For he was teaching them

as one having power, and not as the scribes (smarta brahmanas.).

23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and

he cried out,

24 Saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus of Nazareth? art thou

come to destroy us? I know who thou art, the Holy One of God.

25 And Jesus threatened him, saying: Speak no more, and go out of the

man.

26 And the unclean spirit tearing him, and crying out with a loud

voice, went out of him.

27 And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among

themselves, saying: What thing is this? what is this new doctrine? for

with power he commandeth even the unclean spirits, and they obey him.

"I wander alone at night killing fish in solitary places, but because

I remember the hymn to Lord Nrsimha, ghosts do not touch me." (CC

Antya 18.57)

om hrim kshraum ugram viram maha-vishnum jvalantam sarvato mukham

nrsimham bhishanam bhadram mrtyur mrtyum namamy aham

"I bow down to Lord Nrsimhadeva who is ferocious and heroic like Lord

Visnu. He is burning from every side. He is terrific, auspicious and

the death of death personified."

28 And the fame of him was spread forthwith into all the country of

Galilee.

29 And immediately going out of the synagogue they came into the house

of Simon and Andrew, with James and John.

30 And Simon's wife's mother lay in a fit of a fever: and forthwith

they tell him of her.

31 And coming to her, he lifted her up, taking her by the hand; and

immediately the fever left her, and she ministered unto them.

"When Vasudeva, the leper brahmana, was lamenting due to

not being able to see Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the Lord immediately

returned to that spot and embraced him." (CC Madhya 7.140)

"When Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu touched him, both the leprosy and his

distress went to a distant place. Indeed, Vasudeva's body became very

beautiful, to his great happiness." (CC Madhya 7.141)

32 And when it was evening, after sunset, they brought to him all that

were ill and that were possessed with devils.

33 And all the city was gathered together at the door.

34 And he healed many that were troubled with divers diseases; and he

cast out many devils, and he suffered them not to speak, because they

knew him.

"After circumambulating the tomb of Haridasa Thakura, Shri Chaitanya

Mahaprabhu went to the Simha-dvara gate of the Jagannatha temple. The

whole city chanted in congregation, and the tumultuous sound vibrated

all over the city." (CC Antya 11.72)

35 And rising very early, going out, he went into a desert place: and

there he prayed.

"All the people who lived near Akrura-tirtha came to see

Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and due to the large crowds, the Lord could

not peacefully chant the holy name." (CC Madhya 18.79)

"Therefore Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu would go to Vrndavana and sit in

a solitary place, where He would chant the holy name until noon." (CC

Madhya 18.80)

36 And Simon, and they that were with him, followed after him.

37 And when they had found him, they said to him: All seek for thee.

38 And he saith to them: Let us go into the neighbouring towns and

cities, that I may preach there also; for to this purpose am I come.

In every town and village, the chanting of My name will be preached."

(Chaitanya Bhagavata, Antya 4.126)

"I offer innumerable obeisances unto the lotus feet of Shri Nityananda

Prabhu, who is so kind that He spread the service of Shri Chaitanya

Mahaprabhu all over the world." (CC Madhya 1.26)

39 And he was preaching in their synagogues, and in all Galilee, and

casting out devils.

40 And there came a leper to him, beseeching him, and kneeling down

said to him: If thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

41 And Jesus having compassion on him, stretched forth his hand; and

touching him, saith to him: I will. Be thou made clean.

42 And when he had spoken, immediately the leprosy departed from him,

and he was made clean.

43 And he strictly charged him, and forthwith sent him away.

44 And he saith to him: See thou tell no one; but go, shew thyself to

the high priest, and offer for thy cleansing the things that Moses

commanded, for a testimony to them.

"Being meek and humble, the brahmana Vasudeva worried that

he would become proud after being cured by the grace of Shri Chaitanya

Mahaprabhu." (CC Madhya 7.146)

"To protect the brahmana, Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu advised him to

chant the Hare Krishna mantra incessantly. By doing so, he would never

become unnecessarily proud." (CC Madhya 7.147)

"Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu also advised Vasudeva to preach about

Krishna and thus liberate living entities. As a result, Krishna would

very soon accept him as His devotee." (CC Madhya 7.148)

45 But he being gone out, began to publish and to blaze abroad the

word: so that he could not openly go into the city, but was without in

desert places: and they flocked to him from all sides.

See: Madhya 1.152,164, 4.145, 7.106, 9.40,.89,326, 16.207-9, 25.173-6,

Antya 9.11-12, etc.

Jesus is Vaisnava, without exception and without doubt. This can be settled without any religion debate as we will just look at the oldest Christian record of Jesus' life.

The Gospel of Mark (circa 72AD)

"Mark," says Papias (according to the testimony of Eusebius,

[Ecclesiastical History, 3.39]), "becoming the interpreter of Peter,

wrote accurately, though not in order, whatever he remembered of what

was either said or done by Christ; for he was neither a hearer of the

Lord nor a follower of Him, but afterwards, as I said, [he was a

follower] of Peter, who arranged the discourses for use, but not

according to the order in which they were uttered by the Lord."

Irenaeus [Against Heresies, 3.1]: "Matthew published a Gospel while

Peter and Paul were preaching and founding the Church at Rome; and

after their departure (or decease), Mark, the disciple and interpreter

of Peter, he also gave forth to us in writing the things which were

preached by Peter."

Clement of Alexandria is still more specific, in a passage preserved

by Eusebius [Ecclesiastical History, 6.14]: "Peter having publicly

preached the word at Rome, and spoken forth the Gospel by the Spirit,

many of those present exhorted Mark, as having long been a follower of

his, and remembering what he had said, to write what had been spoken;

and that having prepared the Gospel, he delivered it to those who had

asked him for it; which, when Peter came to the knowledge of, he

neither decidedly forbade nor encouraged him."

"Mark, disciple and interpreter of Peter according to what he heard

Peter relate, wrote a brief Gospel as requested by the brothers in

Rome. When Peter heard, he approved and ordained it on his authority

for reading in the churches, just as Clement wrote in the sixth book

of the Hypotyposes, and Papias the Hierapolitan bishop. Peter also

mentioned this Mark in the first epistle, under the name of Babylon

figuratively signifying Rome: she who is in Babylon chosen together

with you, sends you greetings and so does Mark my son [1 Pet. 5:13].

"And so, he took the gospel which he put together and proceeded to

Egypt. First proclaiming Christ in Alexandria, he founded a church

with such teaching and self-control in life that she compels all

followers of Christ to her example. Further, Philo, the most brilliant

of the Jews, upon seeing the first church of Alexandria when it was

still Jewish, wrote a book about their dealings as if in praise of his

own people, and he handed down a remembrance of what he saw was done

in Alexandria under the instructor Mark in the same manner that Luke

relates that the believers of Jerusalem had everything in common.

"Mark died in the eighth year of Nero [emperor 54-68] and was buried

in Alexandria, Annianus succeeding him." [Jerome, De Viris Illustribus

8]

The Gospel of Mark

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

"Similarly, in the Christian world, the Bible is worshiped. It is a

fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is present by His words. Krishna is

also present by His words. These personalities, either God or the son

of God, who come from the transcendental world, keep their

transcendental identities without being contaminated by the material

world." (Krishna, The Reservoir of pleasure)

Bhaktijana: Does Jesus Christ reside in the Vaikunthas or Brahmaloka?

Prabhupada: No, Vaikuntha. He's person. Brahmaloka, Brahmaloka is

within this material world, and Vaikuntha, in the spiritual world.

(Boston Dec 23, 1969)

1:2 As it is written in Isaias the prophet: Behold I send my angel

before thy face, who shall prepare the way before thee.

1:3 The voice of one crying in the desert: Prepare ye the way of the

Lord, make straight his paths.

1:4 John was in the desert baptizing, and preaching the baptism of

penance, unto remission of sins.

1:5 And there went out to him all the country of Judea, and all they of

Jerusalem, and were baptized by him in the river of Jordan, confessing

their sins.

Commentary: "If persons who are very serious about being liberated

from material life hear the glories of Anantadeva from the mouth of a

spiritual master in the chain of disciplic succession, and if they

always meditate upon Sankarshana, the Lord enters the cores of their

hearts, vanquishes all the dirty contamination of the material modes

of nature, and cuts to pieces the hard knot within the heart, which

has been tied tightly since time immemorial by the desire to dominate

material nature through fruitive activities. Narada Muni, the son of

Lord Brahma, always glorifies Anantadeva in his father's assembly.

There he sings blissful verses of his own composition, accompanied by

his stringed instrument [or a celestial singer] known as Tumburu." (SB

5.25.8)

1:6 And John was clothed with camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about

his loins; and he ate locusts (bean) and wild honey.

1:7 And he preached, saying: There cometh after me one mightier than I,

the straps of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and loose.

1:8 I have baptized you with water; but he shall baptize you with the

Holy Ghost.

"Shri Krishna, the Personality of Godhead, who is the Paramatma [supersoul] in

everyone's heart and the benefactor of the truthful devotee, cleanses

desire for material enjoyment from the heart of the devotee who has

developed the urge to hear His messages, which are in themselves

virtuous when properly heard and chanted." (SB 1.2.17)

9 And it came to pass, in those days, Jesus came from Nazareth of

Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan.

"Concealing Their innately perfect knowledge by Their humanlike

activities, those two omniscient Lords of the universe, Themselves the

origin of all branches of knowledge, next desired to reside at the

school of a spiritual master. Thus They approached Sandipani Muni, a

native of Kashi living in the city of Avanti." (SB 10.45.30-31)

10 And forthwith coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens

opened, and the Spirit as a dove descending, and remaining on him.

"All living entities, moving and nonmoving, receive their vital force,

their bodily strength and their very lives from the air. All of us

follow the air for our vital force, exactly as servants follow an

emperor. The vital force of air is generated from the original vital

force of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. May that Supreme Lord be

pleased with us." (SB 8.5.37)

"Although the false ego has no factual basis, it is perceived in many

forms - as the functions of the mind, speech, life air and bodily

faculties. But with the sword of transcendental knowledge, sharpened

by worship of a bona fide spiritual master, a sober sage will cut off

this false identification and live in this world free from all

material attachment." (SB 11.28.17)

11 And there came a voice from heaven: Thou art my beloved Son; in

thee I am well pleased.

12 And immediately the Spirit drove him out into the desert.

"The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is

directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on

a machine, made of the material energy." (BG 18.61)

13 And he was in the desert forty days and forty nights, and was

tempted by Satan; and he was with beasts, and the angels (agni devi) ministered to him.

14 And after that John was delivered up, Jesus came into Galilee,

preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

15 And saying: The time is accomplished, and the kingdom of God is at

hand: repent, and believe the gospel.

"Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O

descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion - at that

time I descend Myself." (BG 4.7)

"To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to

reestablish the principles of religion, I Myself appear, millennium

after millennium." (BG 4.8)

"A short life in the land of Bharata-varsha is preferable to a life

achieved in Brahmaloka for millions and billions of years because even

if one is elevated to Brahmaloka, he must return to repeated birth and

death. Although life in Bharata-varsha, in a lower planetary system,

is very short, one who lives there can elevate himself to full Krishna

consciousness and achieve the highest perfection, even in this short

life, by fully surrendering unto the lotus feet of the Lord. Thus one

attains Vaikunthaloka, where there is neither anxiety nor repeated

birth in a material body." (SB 5.19.23)

16 And passing by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his

brother, casting nets into the sea (for they were fishermen).

17 And Jesus said to them: Come after me, and I will make you to

become fishers of men.

18 And immediately leaving their nets, they followed him.

19 And going on from thence a little farther, he saw James the son of

Zebedee, and John his brother, who also were mending their nets in the

ship:

20 And forthwith he called them. And leaving their father Zebedee in

the ship with his hired men, they followed him.

nitya parshadas nitya lila

"The glories of Lord Nityananda's transcendental attributes are

unfathomable. Even Lord Shesha, with His thousands of mouths, cannot

find their limit." (CC Adi 5.234)

Lord Nityananda has as eternal associates twelve gopalas (cowherd

boys). In Krishna and Chaitanya-lila their names are:

Shridama (Ramadasa Abhirama of Khanakul-Krishnanagar in Hooghly),

Sudama (Sundarananda Thakura, brahmana ascetic), Vasudama

(Dhananjaya), Subala (Gauridasa Pandita), Mahabala (Kamalakara

Pipalai), Subahu (Uddharana Datta), Mahabahu (Mahesa Pandita),

Stokakrishna (Purushottama), Arjuna (Parameshvara Dasa), Dama

(Purushottama Nagara), Labanga (Kala Krishnadasa), Madhumangala, or

Kusumasava (Shridhara). (from CC Adi 11.13 on, Steven Rosen,

"Panca-tattva", 3.40 - p. 94)

I finally got to watch "The DaVinci Code" last night. It was beautiful and inspirational.

I thought it was a very "dark" movie. It is an attack on theism and it is mayavadi for sure:

In the DaVinci code book it states, "Almost everything our fathers taught us about Christ is false,"

and in the movie it is watered down to: "What if the world discovers the greatest story ever told is a lie?"

It leads to an absurd—and damaging—conclusion. In the movie, Robert ultimately tells Sophie, "What matters is what you believe (is truth)" .

That is, it advocates the message of subjective non absolute Truth. It is impersonalist.

It does not proclaim that only the Personal God is the source of Truth, He is Absolute and the Truth can only be realized in personal relationship with Him.

Da Vinci Code is mayavadi philosophy.

Narada said: You have not actually broadcast the sublime and spotless glories of the Personality of Godhead. That philosophy which does not satisfy the transcendental senses of the Lord is considered worthless. - SB 1.5.8

When contemplating the present situation with our material mind and senses this might be correct. However, "that is the beginning."

 

Impersonalist: And what is predicted for this age?

 

 

Prabhup?da: This side is this Hare Krishna mantra—not only this side, all over the world. That is prediction of Lord Caitanya: “In every village, every town of the world, this Hare Krishna mantra will be chanted.” That is the beginning.

 

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists

His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhup?da

April 7, 1972, Melbourne

http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/720407rc.mel.htm

Congregational chanting of God's Holy Name was not a new phenomenon or form of worship to the West. Sri Chaitanya's Sankirtan Movement is primarily to evangelize Mayavadi Hindu cults, Muslims, and Buddhists.

Western evangelization is something else. The Sankirtan is merely here to revive the Sankirtan revived by Jesus.

It is a proven fact that chanting and singing the Holy Name was a form of worship in ancient times before Christ.

Psalm 7:17

I will give thanks to the LORD because of his righteousness and will sing praise to the name of the LORD Most High.

Psalm 9:2

I will be glad and rejoice in you; I will sing praise to your name, O Most High.

Psalm 9:11

Sing praises to the LORD, enthroned in Zion; proclaim among the nations what he has done.

Psalm 13:6

I will sing to the LORD, for he has been good to me.

Psalm 18:49

Therefore I will praise you among the nations, O LORD; I will sing praises to your name.

Psalm 30:4

Sing to the LORD, you saints of his; praise his holy name.

Psalm 32:11

Rejoice in the LORD and be glad, you righteous; sing, all you who are upright in heart!

Psalm 33:1

Sing joyfully to the LORD, you righteous; it is fitting for the upright to praise him.

Psalm 33:3

Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy.

Psalm 40:3

He put a new song in my mouth, a hymn of praise to our God. Many will see and fear and put their trust in the LORD.

Psalm 42:8

By day the LORD directs his love, at night his song is with me— a prayer to the God of my life.

Psalm 45:1

[ For the director of music. To the tune of "Lilies." Of the Sons of Korah. A maskil. A wedding song. ] My heart is stirred by a noble theme as I recite my verses for the king; my tongue is the pen of a skillful writer.

Psalm 47:6

Sing praises to God, sing praises; sing praises to our King, sing praises.

Psalm 47:7

For God is the King of all the earth; sing to him a psalm of praise.

Psalm 51:14

Save me from bloodguilt, O God, the God who saves me, and my tongue will sing of your righteousness.

... and in the book of Psalms alone another 50 or more references

Sri Chaitanya Sankirtan evangelism is meant primarily for Muslims as is evidence by Sri Chaitanya Lila!

The Madhya-khanda narrates Chaitanya’s growing external displays of devotion, the disciples which join his devotional creed, the conversion of the debauchees Jagai and Madhai, and Chaitanya’s civil disobedience movement against the Muslim Chand Kazi who tries to stop the congregational chanting of the names of Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada's mission for the west, is to revive the dormant congregational chanting of God's Holy Name in a non sectarian movement.

What is the reasoning behind this statement Her Servant?

Is there a reference to an Akashic record in the Vedas? The term seems to have been introduced from "Theosophy" which has been proven to be the mayavadi hijacking of Vedic scripture.

So while the Lord Himself may keep such a record in His inconceivable mind, it is not a place that devotees should search. Rather, we should look only in our heart, and there is enough "record" there to reconcile with God.

The Power of His Mercy is the Power to ERASE anything from our past misgivings.

It's nonsense for us to think about an Akashic record. I don't want to see anyone elses sins .. I've enough of my own to deal with.

Peace and love,

HS and yours

31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

 

Lord Ganesh and Jesus are the most famous, there is no celebration where Lord Ganesh is not invoked, even Srila Prabhupada instructed that we should pray to him for removing the obstacles in our spiritual lives. Lord Jesus is know as Lord of the Lords, Lord Ganesh as Ganapatya, LOrd Jesus as the lamb of God, Lord Ganesh as the elephant of God, the simbol of them is the Cross and so on, too many similarities. Some Tibetan monks said me that they are the same person, but this is confidential and in the future will be know by all ppl.

 

nectar of devotion:

Other rules are that one should not offer foodstuff which is cooked by a non-Vais?n?ava, one should not worship the Deity before a nondevotee, and one should not engage himself in the worship of the Lord while seeing a nondevotee. One should begin the worship of the demigod Gan?apati, who drives away all impediments in the execution of devotional service. In the Brahma-sa?hit? it is stated that Gan?apati worships the lotus feet of Lord Nr?si?hadeva and in that way has become auspicious for the devotees in clearing out all impediments. Therefore, all devotees should worship Gan?apati.

All glories to Lord Ganesh, the Remover of All Obstacles! Lord Ganesh ki Jaya! Jesus ki Jaya!

Even the Bible begins with Ganesh Gnss G(e)n(e)s(i)s.

Did you ever see this:

Ganesha / Gnosis is the patron of scribes and scholars ! Gana-eshvara, Ganesha is associated with generation and the beginning of all things and peoples. Thus it is no accident or coincidence that the Greeks used the word 'Genesis' for the first book of the Bible. Again it is important to note Ganesha's universality. His icon is found on the altars of both Vishnu and Shiva. He is worshiped by the Shakti worshipers as the beloved son of Parvati, and in the Skanda-Murugan tradition he has a prominent place. ...

 

...... if someone wants to claim that there was no religious association in the Greek mind of a 'Deity' or spirit with 'Genesis', then they will be denying the most basic fact of Greek religion, namely that everything concrete or abstract had a Deity, spirit, or being associated with it. There was a masculine and feminine pair, a patron and patroness, or Theos and Thea, Deva and Devi associated with everything. ..

 

Gana-pati is the 'father' or generator patron of all beginnings. 'In the beginning' is the translation of the first words of the Bible (Jewish scriptures). In the Greek Septuagint version, these first words are "en arche.". If the name of the book is supposedly the words 'in the beginning', then why is it not "en arche" ? The root 'gin' in the words be-gin-ning and ori-gin gives a clue. ‘Gin’ in the northern European languages, like ‘gen’ in Greek, is originally associated with the spirit of generation and all beginnings, the Lord's form as Gana-pati or Gan-eshvara / Ganesha. At very ancient Rome he was called Janus.

http://www.saragrahi.org/Header%20Links/Articles%20By%20Author/Bhakti%20Anand%20Goswami/939%20The%20Bible%20as%20Veda.htm

Sorry, didn't know that. Ok, Jai Nitai!

All glories to Lord Jesus Christ!

Thank you for your sincerity.

Jesus certainly may have been in India. There is no question that the traditions of authentic Christianity and Vaisnavism have some relationship. In fact, historical (linguistics, archeology) research indicates that prior to the time of Christ, the sattvic, mono theistic devotees worshipped God as Radha Krsna.

Radha Krsna worship was unique to cities "Purusha" cities throughout the entire civilized world. In India, these cities had "Pur" e.g. Puri, Malyapur, etc. In the semetic world, cities with names containing "Ur", in Greece "PolPolis", (the word Polis is cognate with the word Purusha) and even the word "Police" which means "Protector" .. Purusha!

In these cities, temples can be found to have a form of Radha Krsna worship!

This tells us that the philosophies Krsna Consciousness at the time of Christ were not foreign at all, merely cultural expressions of one world mono theism and this includes the Jewish religion.

In fact, if the bible old testament is studied carefully, the wrathful God of the Hebrew scripture is "Time" Kala, and this I beleive in Vaisnava terms is Narshimadeva. Egypt and the middle east have many artifacts depicting the "Lion of Judah" , a half man half lion diety.

Like Sri Krishna's wrathful form in the Gita, he is remembered in the western traditions as the Lord of Time, devouring the worlds ! One of Nara Hari's names is Kalah ! In the Gita, Sri Krishna says "kalo smi". "Time I am, destroyer of the worlds". The lion headed form of Eli / Hari as time (search art history references for "leontocephalos time", chronus, saturnus, zervan, apadamek etc.) Was worshiped throughout the ancient world.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Christianity is incomplete Vaisnavism; not

fullfledged, but the basis of devotional theism. We find the

principle of "Die to live" there to a certain extent, at least

physically. The Christians say that the ideal shown by Jesus is self-

sacrifice. In our consideration, however, that is not fullfledged

theism, but only the basis. It is an unclear, vague conception of

Godhead: "We are for Him." But how much? And in what shape, in what

attitude? All these things are unexplained and unclear in

Christianity. Everything is hazy, as if seen from far off. It does

not take any proper shape. The cover is not fully removed, allowing

us to come face to face with the object of our service. The

conception of service to God is there, and a strong impetus to attain

that, so the foundation is good, but the structure over the

foundation is unclear, vague, and imperfect."

 

...... Narasingha Maharaja: Yes, Christianity is imperfect, vague and

unclear as Sridhara Maharaja has mentioned ......

Sridhara Maharaja does not have the full view of Christianity. There are references on this forum, regarding his knowledge of Christianity. In fact, what was presented to Sridhara Maharaja as Christianity was passed to him by Bhakti Vinod Thakur. Bhakti Vinod Thakur's exposure to Christianity was via NON PARAMPARA , NON Guru Sashtra Saddhu (GSS) sources.

"He (Bhakti Vinod Thakur) deeply read the works of Mr. Channing and the controversy between Raja Ram Mohan and the Christian Missionaries. He read the koran. He deeply read the works of Theodore Parker, Newman and others." - http://www.bvml.org/SBTP/index.htm

Theodore Parker and Newman were non christians who were literally poisoned with mayavadi philosophy and polluted and distorted "Christianity".

Theodore Parker (August 24, 1810, Lexington, Massachusetts–May 10, 1860, Florence, Italy) was an American Transcendentalist and reforming minister of the Unitarian church.

 

Ultimately, he rejected all miracles, and saw the Bible as full of contradictions and mistakes. He retained his faith in God.

 

Parker was attacked when he denied Biblical miracles and the authority of the Bible and Jesus. Some felt he was not a Christian, nearly all the pulpits in the Boston area were closed to him,[3] and he lost friends."

Parker also is considered an evangelist of Transcendentalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendentalism

Among Transcendentalists' core beliefs was an ideal spiritual state that 'transcends' the physical and empirical and is only realized through the individual's intuition, rather than through the doctrines of established religions. Prominent Transcendentalists included Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, Margaret Fuller, as well as Bronson Alcott, Orestes Brownson, William Ellery Channing, Frederick Henry Hedge, Theodore Parker, ...

Parker was a MAYAVADI !!

Therefore, Bhakti Vinod Thakur's sincere inquiry of Christianity was via literature introduced to him by bogus, mayavadi "christians" completely disconnected from Jesus Parampara and Sampradaya.

Therefore, the acharyas are rightly saying (the bogus) "christianity is incomplete".

Finally, saints such as Bhakti Vinod Thakur are not and do not claim to be omniscient having ALL knowledge of God Himself. They are saints in the line of Sri Chaitanya and don't have to be authoritative on Christian theology. In general, they spoke very little on Christianity and focused on the teachings of their GSS lineage.

If they had been presented with the facts, and authentic scriptures and saintly commentary, they would have completely different views. In fact, Bhakti Vinod Thakur said that "Jesus was the Savior of the West" and that "Mahaprabhu was the Savior of the East"

The Jesus Christ, and the "Christianity" presented by these imposters and mayavadi impersonalists is throroughly DIS-honest.

Therefore, I choose to follow Srila Prabhupada before I speak on other religions:

I must admit my frailties in presenting ?r?mad-Bh?gavatam, but still I am hopeful of its good reception by the thinkers and leaders of society on the strength of the following statement of ?r?mad-Bh?gavatam (1.5.11):

tad-v?g-visargo janat?gha-viplavo

yasmin prati-?lokam abaddhavaty api

n?m?ny anantasya ya?o ’?kit?ni yac

ch??vanti g?yanti g??anti s?dhava?

“On the other hand, that literature which is full with descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, form and pastimes of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a transcendental creation meant to bring about a revolution in the impious life of a misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though irregularly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest.”

Anyone commenting on authentic Christianity, namely the Christianity taught by those saints and sages of the Jesus Gurus Saddhu (and their sahstra) must be IN Jesus parampara.

This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost. Bhagavad Gita As It is 4:2

Isn't it directly stated in the Aquarian bible that Jesus Christ visited India?

The Aquarian bible is a bogus scripture. Prabhupada's disciples were so rascal that they presented this bogus scripture to him as a bonafide authentic teaching from Jesus' parampara / sampradaya.

Had he been informed that this "scripture" was fabricated by a mayavadi, Srila Prabhupada would have been outraged at his followers for presenting it as authentic.

"The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ (full title: The Aquarian Age Gospel of Jesus, the Christ of the Piscean Age) claims to be the true story of the life of Jesus, including “the ‘lost’ eighteen years silent in the New Testament.” The book, first published in 1908, was written by Levi H. Dowling (aka Levi) during the late nineteenth century. Dowling claimed to have transcribed it from the Akashic Records." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aquarian_Gospel_of_Jesus_the_Christ

The idea of "Akashic Record" is outright demonic mayavadi poison:

"The Akashic records (Akasha is a Sanskrit word meaning "sky", "space" or "aether") is a term from Hinduism that was incorporated into Theosophy denoting a collection of mystical knowledge encoded in a non-physical plane of existence. The Records are supposed to contain all knowledge, including all human experience, of the history of the Cosmos. The Akashic Records are metaphorically described as a library and are also likened to a universal computer or the 'Mind of God'. The records are supposed to be constantly updated. The concept originated in the theosophical movements of the 19th Century, and remains prevalent in New Age discourse." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_Records

How exactly does being famous prove anything? Madonna is famous. Brittney Spears is also famous. Kareena Kapur is famous.

 

Is the validity of religious faith now to be judged on the basis of popular vote instead of facts and truth?

What kind of spear is a brittney spear? Is made in Great Britain?

The fame of Jesus is indestructible. For many years I have heard big scholars, college professors, big Vedic scholars etc. that say Jesus is just a myth, or just an ordinary man etc. but still to this day Jesus is far more famous than any of these fellas will ever dream to be and even the lowest of mankind including criminals and street thugs of all varieties often tattoo their bodies with images of Christ and the cross etc. I have even heard those of the Gaudiya Vaisnavism persuasion attempt to defame and mythologize Jesus and at the same time saying they are with Prabhupada and the acaryas in an attempt to inundate the western world in Krsna Consciousness. From my studies of Prabhupada's books and letters I have never found any evidence that suggests Prabhupada would ever participate in a strategy of inundating the Western World in Krishna Consciousness but at the same time trying to throw Jesus by the wayside and trample all over the fame of Jesus.

Yes. He cannot be destroyed! All glories to our wonderous heavenly Father, who sent His Divine Son, the Savior.

All glories to Ya(hu) Shua, Jesus, The Savior of this world and all the worlds of the entire cosmic manifestation! His Mercy is inconceivable!

How renounced is Jesus of His own fame and glory?

Philippians 2:5-11

Have among yourselves the same attitude that is also yours in Christ Jesus,

6

Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped.

7

Rather, he emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, coming in human likeness; and found human in appearance,

8

he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross.

9

Because of this, God greatly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,

10

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend, of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11

and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

No one can take away His fame because the Father has given it.

Sri Chaitanya-Charitamrita, Adi-Lila, Chapter 5 Text 4 -5 with purports by His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, is the fountainhead of all incarnations. Lord Baladeva is His second body"

Purport

"Lord Sri Krishna, the absolute Personality of Godhead, is the primeval Lord, the original form of Godhead, and His first expansion is Sri Balarama."

Text 5

"They are both one and the same identity. They differ only in form. He is the first bodily expansion of Krishna, and He assists in Lord Krishna’s transcendental pastimes."

Purport

"Balarama is a svamsa expansion of the Lord, and therefore there is no difference in potency between Krishna and Balarama."

The apostolic (disciplic) parampara/sampradaya of Lord Jesus teaches:

The following is a literal translation of the Greek text of the Constantinopolitan form, the brackets indicating the words altered or added in the Western liturgical form in present use:

"We believe (I believe) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe) in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."

The theology of Only Son of God and eternally begotten of the Father can be traced to 4th century latin writings having the following theological terms

Homoousios - Christ's relation to the Father, which is one and the same substance or nature of the Father. (Etym. Greek homousios, of one essence, consubstantial.)

Also notable is the teaching of Hypostasis - union of two natures in one divine person in Christ. A person is a hypostasis endowed with reason; it is the bearer of the nature and ultimate subject of all being and doing, nature being and doing, nature being that through which the person acts. (Etym. Latin hypostasis, basis; single substance; person; Greek hypostasis, support, foundation, substance, sediment.)

OK same night.

 

When did he overturn the animal sellers tables at the temple.

 

Please put the time line together for me. Temple incident- Passover meal- Gethsemene.

The turning over the tables was shortly after Jesus entered Jerusalem. (He was preaching outside Jerusalem for most of His public minsitry). In the Gospel of Mark it is recorded in Chapter 11. There are quite a few events in between Chapter 11 and Chapter 14 (describing the events of the passover and Gethsemane).

Tradition, I think, tells us that there was a short period of time between Jesus entering the Temple in Jerusalem and the feast of passover. Perhaps even a week or two, but possibly a month. A great number of Jews would enter the city of Jerusalem in the few weeks before the passover because, by law, they (Jews) were required to bring a spotless lamb to the temple of Jerusalem to be slaughtered by priests for the passover.

Jesus in Gethsemane takes place the very night of the passover. Jesus goes to the garden to pray through the night knowing that Judas left the passover meal to turn him over to the Pharisees.

I want to make sure I understand you correctly. I understand the idea behind passover but I am not sure of the date it took place. As far as I know Jesus was taken to be judged then crucified after he overturned the tables of those selling lambs and goats to be sacrificed at the temple grounds. He could have escaped if He wanted to but instead stayed in the area, Gethsemane, and prayed and waited until they came for Him.

 

Now they were lead there by Judas so it makes sense that was soon after passover. I never made that connection before.

 

The fact that He went to the temple to run out those selling animals for sacrifice right after passover only strengthens what you say about Him trying to cleanse Judaism from animal sacrifice and hearld in a new era of understanding.

Jesus and the disciples were actually together at the Passover meal on the same night of His "agony in the garden" of Gethsemene.

"The disciples then went off, entered the city, and found it just as he had told them; and they prepared the Passover. When it was evening, he came with the Twelve. And as they reclined at table and were eating, Jesus said, "Amen, I say to you, one of you will betray me, one who is eating with me." They began to be distressed and to say to him, one by one, "Surely it is not I?"

He said to them, "One of the Twelve, the one who dips with me into the dish. For the Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, 6 but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born." While they were eating, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, and said, "Take it; this is my body." Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, and they all drank from it. He said to them, "This is my blood of the new covenant, which will be shed for many. -- Mark 14:16-25

For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the [same] night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. - 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 23

The Pharisees plotted to kill Jesus. It is logical to conclude that they had to have "something on Jesus" .. they had to have a reason.

"So the chief priests and the Pharisees convened the Sanhedrin and said, "What are we going to do? This man is performing many signs. If we leave him alone, all will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our land and our nation." But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing, nor do you consider that it is better for you that one man should die instead of the people, so that the whole nation may not perish." He did not say this on his own, but since he was high priest for that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation, and not only for the nation, but also to gather into one the dispersed children of God. So from that day on they planned to kill him. - John 11:47-53

Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him. - Matt. 26:14-16

From that time on, Judas began looking for the right time and place to betray Jesus. - Matt 26:16 (NLT translation)

Therefore, Judas was spying on behalf of the Pharisees and looking for something could be used to hand over Jesus to Jewish authorities.

Breaking Jewish law would certainly be an incident that would present Judas with "the right time and place".

Jesus KNEW that Judas would betray Him at the meal because Jesus was ending the bloody animal sacrifice of passover and replacing it with His own life.

He layed down His life at that moment, that is .. that moment He said "This is my blood of the NEW COVENANT that will be poured out for many"

And this is why bread and wine offered in His remembrance are the body and blood of Jesus .. that is, the offering of bread and wine is indifferent from Jesus (His sacrifice and His lila (life).

It is clear. Jesus gave His life for many and the many includes the millions of innocent lambs that were slaughtered every year at passover.

Her Servant and yours.

Yes this is a very dangerous and foolish mentality. There was this James Watt who was the Secretary of the Interior in the Reagen administration. That means in charge of the wilderness and parks etc. for the US. This guy was also a so-called Christian and he publically said that it didn't matter what we did to the environment because no matter how badly we screwed it up Jesus was going to fix like new when He comes again.

 

Yes we can choose to suffer on another's behalf. Like a mother who suffers so much taking care of a sick child. That is the nature of love. It is this self sacrifice that Jesus showed the world was the way to please God. Not as the Christians say that God was pleased by Jesus dying on the cross. What a demonic view of God they present.

Yes this is a very dangerous and foolish mentality. There was this James Watt who was the Secretary of the Interior in the Reagen administration. That means in charge of the wilderness and parks etc. for the US. This guy was also a so-called Christian and he publically said that it didn't matter what we did to the environment because no matter how badly we screwed it up Jesus was going to fix like new when He comes again.

 

Yes we can choose to suffer on another's behalf. Like a mother who suffers so much taking care of a sick child. That is the nature of love. It is this self sacrifice that Jesus showed the world was the way to please God. Not as the Christians say that God was pleased by Jesus dying on the cross. What a demonic view of God they present.

Yes. Very demonic. Some of this logic comes from the history of blood (animal) sacrifice prior to the coming of Jesus. You've heard the expression "scape goat".

This expression comes from the animal sacrifice traditions related to "atonement" and "forgiveness".

The high priest would "transfer" the sins of people to the "goat" or "lamb" then kill it and spill its blood, hence "killing the sins" of those that offered the animal.

When Jesus came, He offered His life to end the bloody sacrifice. This is obvious and easy to prove because He was not given over to authorities until the very night He ended the Passover and replaced it with "The New Covenant".

You don't need a new covenant if you still have an old covenant. Hence, when He said "this is the new covenant" in regards to eating bread and wine on Passover, it cost Him is mortal body.

That is, this ending of the animal sacrifice meat eating ritual of Passover, is what caused Judas to betray Jesus and hand him over. According to the Jews, only God could end or change "The Law" that required a spotless lamb to be slaughtered, then eaten during the Passover feast.

This is why to this day, Jesus is called the Paschal Sacrifice.

Unfortunately, there is a vast misconception in Christian interpretation of St. Paul's writings (on Jesus as sacrifice), particularly among evangelical Christians. (when disciplic succession is broken, knowlege is lost)

St. Paul's intended audience , to a large extent, were Jews engaged in such sacrifice rituals.

The Lord of Unending Love however continually seeks the jiva soul to lift it up above rajistic and tamasic activities and tendencies. He , the one who lays down His Life for the fallen, the Reservoir of Compassion, the fountainhead of Compassion, suffers awaiting our awakening.

At the same time, one must be sincere to approach His feet. Therefore the Crucifixion of Christ is very difficult to comprehend.

The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. - 1st Corinthians 1:18

but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness - 1 Corinthians 1:23

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up" - John 3:14

".Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said to Maharaja Parikshit: My dear King, approximately 240,000 miles beneath the planet Patala lives another incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is the expansion of Lord Vishnu known as Lord Ananta or Lord Sankarshana. He is always in the transcendental position, but because He is worshiped by Lord Siva, the deity of tamo-guna or darkness, He is sometimes called tamasi. Lord Ananta is the predominating Deity of the material mode of ignorance as well as the false ego of all conditioned souls. When a conditioned living being thinks, "I am the enjoyer, and this world is meant to be enjoyed by me," this conception of life is dictated to him by Sankarshana. Thus the mundane conditioned soul thinks himself the Supreme Lord. - Srimad Bhagavatam 5.25.1

"The foremost manifestation of Krishna is Sankarshana, who is known as Ananta. He is the origin of all incarnations within this material world.

Previous to the appearance of Lord Krishna, this original Sankarshana will appear as Baladeva, just to please the Supreme Lord Krishna in His transcendental pastimes." - Srimad Bhagavatam 10.1.24

"That Ananta Sesha is the devotee incarnation of Godhead. He knows nothing but service to Lord Krishna." - Sri Chaitanya Caritamrita Adi-lila 5.120

And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. - Mark 4:11-12

Yes, I wonder why so many Christians misunderstood them so badly over the centuries to cause religious wars, crusades, and Inquisition...

By The Supreme Lord Krsna's arrangement!

He answered them, "The mystery of the kingdom of God has been granted to you. But to those outside everything comes in parables, so that 'they may look and see but not perceive, and hear and listen but not understand, in order that they may not be converted and be forgiven.'"

- Mark 4:11

Read Jesus' complete answer (Mark 4:1-34) below:

On another occasion he began to teach by the sea. A very large crowd gathered around him so that he got into a boat on the sea and sat down. And the whole crowd was beside the sea on land.

 

And he taught them at length in parables, and in the course of his instruction he said to them,

 

"Hear this! A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seed fell on the path, and the birds came and ate it up.

 

Other seed fell on rocky ground where it had little soil. It sprang up at once because the soil was not deep.

 

And when the sun rose, it was scorched and it withered for lack of roots.

 

Some seed fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked it and it produced no grain.

 

And some seed fell on rich soil and produced fruit. It came up and grew and yielded thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold."

 

He added, "Whoever has ears to hear ought to hear." And when he was alone, those present along with the Twelve questioned him about the parables.

 

He answered them, "The mystery of the kingdom of God has been granted to you. But to those outside everything comes in parables, so that 'they may look and see but not perceive, and hear and listen but not understand, in order that they may not be converted and be forgiven.'"

 

 

Jesus said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? Then how will you understand any of the parables?

 

The sower sows the word. These are the ones on the path where the word is sown. As soon as they hear, Satan comes at once and takes away the word sown in them.

And these are the ones sown on rocky ground who, when they hear the word, receive it at once with joy. But they have no root; they last only for a time. Then when tribulation or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Those sown among thorns are another sort. They are the people who hear the word, but worldly anxiety, the lure of riches, and the craving for other things intrude and choke the word, and it bears no fruit.

But those sown on rich soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit thirty and sixty and a hundredfold."

He said to them, "Is a lamp brought in to be placed under a bushel basket or under a bed, and not to be placed on a lampstand? For there is nothing hidden except to be made visible; nothing is secret except to come to light. Anyone who has ears to hear ought to hear." He also told them, "Take care what you hear. The measure with which you measure will be measured out to you, and still more will be given to you.

To the one who has, more will be given; from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away." He said,"This is how it is with the kingdom of God; it is as if a man were to scatter seed on the land and would sleep and rise night and day and the seed would sprout and grow, he knows not how. Of its own accord the land yields fruit, first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear. And when the grain is ripe, he wields the sickle at once, for the harvest has come." He said, "To what shall we compare the kingdom of God, or what parable can we use for it? It is like a mustard seed that, when it is sown in the ground, is the smallest of all the seeds on the earth.

But once it is sown, it springs up and becomes the largest of plants and puts forth large branches, so that the birds of the sky can dwell in its shade."

 

With many such parables he spoke the word to them as they were able to understand it. Without parables he did not speak to them, but to his own disciples he explained everything in private.

Dear Her Servant, Only the followers of Srila Rupa Goswami which include his older brother, Srila Sanatana Goswami and the other Goswamis especially Srila Raghunatha das Goswami follow this mood of Srila Rupa Goswami or Rupanuga. For instance the Pacha Tattva does not follow this mood for it is not their position. An example would be Sri Gadadhara Pandit who is considered to be Srimati Radharani Herself. Also Srila Swaurupa Damodara (not Pancha tattva) is considered to be the Gopi, Lalita devi. A Gopi would be in a Gopi mood not a Manjari mood.

From an Article at http://www.scsmath.com/docs/guardian_of_dev-sj-exrpt.html

This is very very beautiful. Thank you. Just reflecting on this for a moment brings about loving contemplation of Srimati Radharani. Can anyone comprehend her rapt love of Krsna? Can anyone describe her mellows? She is beauty personified!

With warmest wishes,

Her Servant and yours

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja:

 

...

Srila Rupa Gosvami was the first to declare that Sri Sacinandana is Krsna. When Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu heard this from Rupa Gosvami’s lips, He became shy and said, “Don’t tell this.” The mission of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was only to give this manjari mood, but we cannot give it to ordinary devotees because they cannot understand its value. In fact, some hate it.

 

Dear Beggar,

Thanks for your nice and informative post. Did all of Sri Caitanya's associates receive this mood or only Srila Rupa Gosvami?

Warmest wishes,

Her Servant and yours.