HerServant

You are a braying ass.

It is a very good thing for me that I didn't post my dream of Sri Chaitanya in Jharikhanda. All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga!

Time for me to leave this place brother. All my love to you and the assembled devotees.

We are living in a very dark time. How is it Dear Krsna, that I have found myself so far away from home in this strange planet. Kindly let me accept the Mercy delivered by your Son Jesus.

Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya.

It is the height of great mercy to "dream" of a saint!

 

I've waited now three decades to have dreams of the temple deities or even the temple lobby! Such dreams are rare and more rare!

 

My desires are full of lust and even there I have not dreams of lusty encounters.

 

You sat with Prabhupada in a dream? Hog wash! . . . Yes, I deny your subjective right and also your chance to claim to have had such a dream.

 

Yes, I don't know you, and I definitively denounce you for your claim to have had such a dream. I sorry to say that I do not allow even a moments' worth of belief in what you claim you dreamed.

 

the servant of Krishna's Servant,

Bhaktajan

more nonsense from you as usual. shvu is not criticizing prabhupada. he is criticizing your nonsense about prabhupada haters. You conveniently cut out the rest of his response to distort his words. When you resort to cunningness it is sign you have nothing valid to say.

 

some excellent posts have been made above to clear up the issue of Jesus being vaishnava. let us hope that is enough and the christians have enough good sense to stop running in circles trying to catch their own tails.

What is your Vaisnava lineage? But on your side, whose Math and whose Sampradaya holds your position? Which guru? Which acharya?

On our side, we are taking from Srila Prabhupada's writings and lectures. That is in the open.

But your side (you and those supporting your position) .. each one of you refuses to disclose your sampradaya, your guru, and your math. It is all secret. Why is that?

I know why? Because you are ashamed. Because I will go to your guru and your math and they will caste you out.

So tell me, where in India you have your ashram and your guru.

We want to hear their position. Let them speak.

Good. If he indeed said that in your dream then why are you arguing for a sectarian label like Vaishnava? You are deviating from Prabhupada's vision by doing so and incurring some serious aparadha.

 

 

 

Good. If he indeed said that in your dream then why are you arguing for a sectarian label like Vaishnava? You are deviating from Prabhupada's vision by doing so and incurring some serious aparadha.

 

 

 

 

That is baloney. So if someone offers the correct meaning of Vaishava, they become Prabhupada haters? You do not follow Buddhism. So are you a Buddhist hater?

 

You have to do better. I suggest you go back to bed and hopefully Prabhupada or Jesus will appear in your dream again and provide some clarity.

 

Cheers

Dear Cheers,

So let us all look at your response:

I said --

Quote:Originally Posted by HerServant

But for those the hate on this forum and those who are harboring hate, Srila Prabhupada had this to say:

And you replied:

That is baloney. So if someone offers the correct meaning of Vaishava, they become Prabhupada haters? You do not follow Buddhism. So are you a Buddhist hater?

I said Srila Prabhupada had nothing to say to "those harboring hate". You replied "That is baloney".

Case closed.

O Immaculata, Queen of Heaven and earth, refuge of sinners and our most loving Mother, God has willed to entrust the entire order of mercy to you. I, (name), a repentant sinner, cast myself at your feet, humbly imploring you to take me with all that I am and have, wholly to yourself as your possession and property. Please make of me, of all my powers of soul and body, of my whole life, death and eternity, whatever most pleases you.

If it pleases you, use all that I am and have without reserve, wholly to accomplish what was said of you: "She will crush your head," and "You alone have destroyed all heresies in the whole world. " Let me be a fit instrument in your immaculate and merciful hands for introducing and increasing your glory to the maximum in all the many strayed and indifferent souls, and thus help extend as far as possible the blessed kingdom of the most Sacred Heart of Jesus. For wherever you enter you obtain the grace of conversion and growth in holiness, since it is through your hands that all graces come to us from the most Sacred Heart of Jesus.

V. Allow me to praise you, O sacred Virgin

R. Give me strength against your enemies

Eternal and incarnate Wisdom, most lovable and adorable Jesus, true God and true man, only Son of the eternal Father and of Mary always Virgin, I adore you profoundly, dwelling in the splendour of your Father from all eternity and in the virginal womb of Mary, your most worthy Mother, at the time of your incarnation. I thank you for having emptied yourself in assuming the condition of a slave to set me free from the cruel slavery of the evil one. I praise and glorify you for having willingly chosen to obey Mary, your holy Mother, in all things, so that through her I may be a faithful slave of love.

But I must confess that I have not kept the vows and promises which I made to you so solemnly at my baptism. I have not fulfilled my obligations, and I do not deserve to be called your child or even your loving slave. Since I cannot lay claim to anything except what merits your rejection and displeasure, I dare no longer approach the holiness of your majesty on my own. That is why I turn to the intercession and the mercy of your holy Mother, whom you yourself have given me to mediate with you. Through her I hope to obtain from you contrition and pardon for my sins, and that Wisdom whom I desire to dwell in me always.

I turn to you, then, Mary immaculate, living tabernacle of God, in whom eternal Wisdom willed to receive the adoration of both men and angels.

I greet you as Queen of heaven and earth, for all that is under God has been made subject to your sovereignty.

I call upon you, the unfailing refuge of sinners, confident in your mercy that has never forsaken anyone.

Grant my desire for divine Wisdom and, in support of my petition, accept the promises and the offering of myself which I now make, conscious of my unworthiness.

I, an unfaithful sinner, renew and ratify today through you my baptismal promises. I renounce for ever Satan, his empty promises, and his evil designs, and I give myself completely to Jesus Christ, the incarnate Wisdom, to carry my cross after him for the rest of my life, and to be more faithful to him than I have been till now.

This day, with the whole court of heaven as witness, I choose you, Mary, as my Mother and Queen.

I surrender and consecrate myself to you, body and soul, with all that I possess, both spiritual and material, even including the spiritual value of all my actions, past, present, and to come. I give you the full right to dispose of me and all that belongs to me, without any reservations, in whatever way you please, for the greater glory of God in time and throughout eternity.

Accept, gracious Virgin, this little offering of my slavery to honour and imitate the obedience which eternal Wisdom willingly chose to have towards you, his Mother. I wish to acknowledge the authority which both of you have over this little worm and pitiful sinner. By it I wish also to thank God for the privileges bestowed on you by the Blessed Trinity. I solemnly declare that for the future I will try to honour and obey you in all things as your true slave of love.

O admirable Mother, present me to your dear Son as his slave now and for always, so that he who redeemed me through you, will now receive me through you.

Mother of mercy, grant me the favour of obtaining the true Wisdom of God, and so make me one of those whom you love, teach and guide, whom you nourish and protect as your children and slaves.

Virgin most faithful, make me in everything so committed a disciple, imitator, and slave of Jesus, your Son, incarnate Wisdom, that I may become, through your intercession and example, fully mature with the fullness which Jesus possessed on earth, and with the fullness of his glory in heaven. Amen.

But Christianity today universally accepts the old testament as the word of God. So it seems you are basically agreeing with Raghu that 99% of all Christians in the world follow a fake religion, as their religion in based on the old testiment. Also when you say you don't believe in the old testiment you are basically agreeing with Raghu that the bible is corrupted. The only difference in opinion seems to be the degree. He feels there is nothing valid, and you feel there are some things valid in the bible.

 

As far as I am aware (and I could be uninformed) there are no well known Christian groups that only accept the new testiment.

 

 

 

Indra is not God, nor a perfect being. So there is no comparison. You would have to cite cases of Vishnu acting cruelly in order for there to be a valid comparison.

There is a reason it is called "New Testament". The Old Testament needs much scholarship to understand and much of it is allegory.

But read the Psalms and ask yourself are these inspirational. The Psalms teach to sing and praise the Glory of Gods name over and over. Is that not agreeable.

Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya! I bow down again and again to the feet of Lord Jesus Christ, whose sandals are like a boat to cross the ocean of samsara.

I left this thread and forum with the full intent of never coming back. I have returned here at the direct request of Srila Prabhupada who appeared to me in a dream.

He made it very very clear that his followers (and movement) must be non sectarian. His body was very clean and radiant and I sat with him in a temple for a while.

But for those the hate on this forum and those who are harboring hate, Srila Prabhupada had this to say:

____________________ ______________________

nothing at all

The title of this thread is "Vaisnava Bible Study - Is Jesus Vaisnava?" Accordingly, we will discuss both subjects, namely the study of the Bible from a Vaishnava perspective as well as the matter of Jesus's alleged identity as a "Vaishnava.

Hmmm .. on another thread you posted:

Krishna Consciousness is Consciousness of Krishna!

 

I am ready to accept your initiation now.

This implies you are not an initiated Vaisnava. Are you?

The title of this thread is "Vaisnava Bible Study - Is Jesus Vaisnava?" Accordingly, we will discuss both subjects, namely the study of the Bible from a Vaishnava perspective as well as the matter of Jesus's alleged identity as a "Vaishnava." ... ....

Krsnadaasa Kaviraja lists the following twenty-six good qualities of a Vaisnava:

(1) He is very kind to everyone.

(2) He does not make anyone his enemy.

(3) He is truthful.

(4) He is equal to everyone.

(5) No one can find any fault in him.

(6) He is magnanimous.

(7) He is mild.

(8) He is always clean.

(9) He is without possessions.

(10) He works for everyone's benefit.

(11) He is very peaceful.

(12) He is always surrendered to Krsna.

(13) He has no material desires.

(14) He is very meek.

(15) He is steady.

(16) He controls his senses.

(17) He does not eat more than required.

(18) He is not influenced by the Lord's illusory energy.

(19) He offers respect to everyone.

(20) He does not desire any respect for himself.

(21) He is very grave.

(22) He is merciful.

(23) He is friendly.

(24) He is poetic.

(25) He is expert.

(26) He is silent." [srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 Purport]

Hare Krsna! Jesu Ki Jaya!

Krsnadaasa Kaviraja lists the following twenty-six good qualities of a Vaisnava:

(1) He is very kind to everyone.

(2) He does not make anyone his enemy.

(3) He is truthful.

(4) He is equal to everyone.

(5) No one can find any fault in him.

(6) He is magnanimous.

(7) He is mild.

(8) He is always clean.

(9) He is without possessions.

(10) He works for everyone's benefit.

(11) He is very peaceful.

(12) He is always surrendered to Krsna.

(13) He has no material desires.

(14) He is very meek.

(15) He is steady.

(16) He controls his senses.

(17) He does not eat more than required.

(18) He is not influenced by the Lord's illusory energy.

(19) He offers respect to everyone.

(20) He does not desire any respect for himself.

(21) He is very grave.

(22) He is merciful.

(23) He is friendly.

(24) He is poetic.

(25) He is expert.

(26) He is silent." [srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 Purport]

Hare Krsna! Jesu Ki Jaya!

I don't see how. I still don't think that you MUST have a commentary to read a holy scripture. Even if I used a commentary to help ME, that doesn't mean that someone else who reads the same passage couldn't receive the wisdom to understand it by Sri Radha-Krishna's grace and mercy. Understanding the passage is caused by the compassion of Radha and Krishna toward Their devotees. Even with a commentary, without the grace of Radha-Krishna, we can't understand a single word of the scriptures.

I also agree.

Also .. being "guru" doesn't mean being "paramguru". Being "self-realized" does not necessarily mean being "eternally self-realized".

If you are self realized 24/7 means that you are eternally with Krsna. If that is the case, then you are not likely here on planet earth.

You experience your true identity (self) when the Lord gives His darshan. But it doesn't mean because the Blessed Lord gave darshan that you are all knowledgable.

For non self realized persons, you can speak only on the authority of the realized acharyas, the saints.

Anything else is speculation. Speculation too is alright, when presented as speculation, or done as honest inquiry into the Truth.

Self realized souls can speak on the authority of the Lord Himself. Even then, they cannot speak authoratively beyond the revelation (realization).

In fact, they may is some cases not speak authoratively at all as the darshan of the Lord may be "private revelation" meant only for the devotee but not for the whole of humanity.

Commentary therefore, on scripture, from a realized person, is like "sampradaya" or personality. The sampradaya is formed when the followers of the sampradaya are attracted to the personality of the guru.

That is, the flavor of guru's realizations are attractive to the personal chemistry of the devotee.

Srila Prabhupada considered his sampradaya flavor to be the best, .. the "rose among flowers". It doesn't mean the other flowers are not still beautifully adorned and sweetly scented.

I am also reminded that Sri Chaitanya would not comment on scripture in one case. He said "it was self explanatory" ..

A)

 

As per the Hindu Trinity, Godhead is*:

I— Bhagavan (God Personage as "He who alone Possesses of all Six Opulences"—all wealth, all strength, all beauty, all intelligence, all fame & most renounced).

II—Paramatma (God as the life-force localized within the nucleus of each and every animate and inanimate particle of the Creation).

III—Brahman (God as the omnipresent/omniscient vacant space, which is occupied by all the animate and inanimate particles that compose the Creation).

[*NOTE: All of Creation is accounted for in these three categories, beyond these three categories no additional separate entities exists, all things are accounted for in this Hindu Trinity—as revealed in the Vedic literatures].

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

B)

Bhagavad-gita 3.26:

So as not to disrupt the minds of ignorant men attached to the fruitive results of prescribed duties, a learned person should not induce them to stop work. Rather, by working in the spirit of devotion, he should engage them in all sorts of activities [for the gradual development of Krsna consciousness].

Purport:

. . . All rituals, all performances of sacrifices, and everything that is put into the Vedas, including all direction for material activities, are meant for understanding Krsna, who is the ultimate goal of life.

But because the conditioned souls do not know anything beyond sense gratification, they study the Vedas to that end.

But through fruitive activities and sense gratification regulated by the Vedic rituals one is gradually elevated to Krsna consciousness.

Therefore a realized soul in Krsna consciousness should not disturb others in their activities or understanding, but he should act by showing how the results of all work can be dedicated to the service of Krsna.

The learned Krsna conscious person may act in such a way that the ignorant person working for sense gratification may learn how to act and how to behave. Although the ignorant man is not to be disturbed in his activities . . .

[bhaktajan's Note: herein above the word 'ignorant' denote a non-seeker's knowledge which is bereft of the Vedic scriptural understanding of the nature of:

? The soul,

? material energy (prakriti),

? karma vs. vikarma vs. akarma

? Time and its constituent properties/perview.

? Isvara—God as: Controller/Source of Sacrifice/Possessor of all Opulences/Mysterious Personality of Godhead revealed as Krishna.

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya! Thank you Bhaktajan

All very nice references! Reminds me of this quote:

“Preach the Gospel always and if necessary use words.” - St. Francis of Assisi

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace;

Where there is hatred, let me sow love;

Where there is injury, pardon;

Where there is doubt, faith;

Where there is despair, hope;

Where there is darkness, light;

Where there is sadness, joy;

 

Grant that I may not so much seek

To be consoled as to console;

To be understood as to understand;

To be loved as to love;

For it is in giving that we receive;

It is in forgiving that we are forgiven;

and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. - St. Francis of Assisi

Hare Krsna!

Thanks for the additional insight, HerServant!

I thought you might enjoy that .. you know ..sometimes the little ones need to remind us of big important things!

Sending you love and blissful wishes.

No one responded because it fell off the front page. Raghu will answer for himself.

 

Here is a link to learn about Sri Vaishnavism or Vishishtadvaitam

http://www.ramanuja.org/

 

Here is a link for Sad Vaishnavism also known as Tattvavada or Dvaita

http://www.dvaita.org

 

Vishishtadvaitam, Dvaita and Advaita are two of the three major traditions of Vedanta alive to this day. The first two are Vaishnava traditions and the latter is a Smarta tradition.

Thank you for these references to these sites. There are "hundreds" of positive references about Jesus on this site and He is clearly accepted as "Vaisnava", though not in a cultural and religion sense.

The content of these sites clearly indicates that Raghu is not in their lineage or is not following their philosophy and teachings. The quotes below are from ramanuja.org and dvaita.org :

Jesus is very clearly "fully God". This is the position of all

Christian churches, except for the Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses.

God is perceived in orthodox Christianity as a Trinity -- He is threefold,

yet at the same time, One God. There is the "Father who is in Heaven",

the Son (Jesus, the incarnation), and the Holy Spirit, the essence of

God that guides people's hearts. Notice the parallelism between the

Srivaishnava concept of the Paravaasudeva, the Vibhava avataara (Rama,

Krishna, etc), and the haarda (the incarnation of the Lord in the

heart).

Re: Jesus being God

 

Well, in the end, a quotation here and there from the Bible

do not really matter in this discussion, since Christianity

has as its *fundamental* tenet that Jesus was "fully God" as

well as "fully human". Sound contradictory? It may on the

face of it, but much theological discussion on this topic

has occurred over the past two millenia, so what may seem

contradictory to outsiders seems as clear as day to orthodox

Christians.

 

Nevertheless, here are some quotations. The most obvious

examples of Jesus's divinity occur in the Gospel according

to John, found in the New Testament. Here, Jesus as the Son

is represented in Greek as the Logos, which translates to

"Word". But the Word is the same as God.

 

John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was

with God, and the Word was God.

 

1:3: All things were made by him; and without him was not

any thing made that was made.

 

Furthermore, in the Jewish tradition, the only person who

can absolve humans of sins is God himself. Jesus very clearly

takes on this role, and declares himself as the redeemer. The

Jewish people of his time react to this as an implicit claim

that he is equal to God. We have to view the Bible and the

story of Jesus from the cultural perspective of the Jews of

that time. I would ask you look at passages such as Mark 2:7,

"And who can forgive sins but God only?"

 

There is a file on the network for about this question, directed

mainly at people who are not familiar with the Bible. The difficult

thing for non-Christians to understand is the Trinity concept of

Christianity, where there are three persons in God, but they are

of one essence. Therefore, Jesus is not simply God; he is more

properly the *incarnation* of God, since, unlike in our religion,

the Incarnation is a unique, one-time special occurrence.

 

It is very hard to properly convey Christian ideas about the

nature of God in so short a manner, but trust me on this one:

their entire religion is based upon Christ being the redeemer,

Christ being God, and Christ having died to absolve us of our

sins.

 

Re: The Painful death of Christ -- why?

 

This is another difficult question for non-Christians to understand,

but let us go back to the time of the early Jews, where it was

thought that any digression from "the Law" of God (equivalent to

Dharma-Sastras) was considered a great offense. The Law included

minute details (equivalent to "aachaaram") of observance, and they

believed that God was appeased through regular sacrifices, etc.

This was the so-called "Old Covenant", a contract of sorts between

the Jews and God.

 

So, all the while they are waiting for the Savior, who will restore

them to righteousness, lead the out of slavery, etc. The

exact nature of what constituted the Savior was in great debate

at that time. Anyway, according to Christian belief, Jesus came as

the Incarnation of God to show people the "new way", the New Covenant

that God wanted to strike between people and the Lord. But, again

according to Christian belief, the wonderful paradox which shows

the great condescension of the Lord is that he incarnated in a way

that made him "fully human" -- he was perfect, no doubt, and "fully

divine", but fully human in that he was flesh and blood. (This is

a very deep theological issue which I do not properly understand).

 

To perform the last sacrifice necessary to redeem all people,

Jesus underwent great suffering in the name of the Lord. This is a sign

of his great mercy. Jesus is therefore seen as the "Lamb of God",

sacrificed to absolve all sins of the people if they simply put their

faith and surrender to him. The mystery of Christ is that three days

after his crucifixion, he was resurrected -- this is the heart of

Christian belief, that if we believe in Christ, we are granted everlasting

life in heaven and we shall not die in an inert way or go to hell, or

any such thing. Salvation is attained.

 

Just as westerners find it hard to understand our belief system since

they do not come from our cultural perspective, we will find it hard

to accept all these beliefs since we do not understand the basis of

Christianity. This is in fact why Indian Christianity is in many ways

more like a bhakti movement than like Western Christianity.

The designations like Hindu, Christian, European,

Indian, Chinese etc. are bodily designations and don't

apply to the soul.

 

First we must try to answer the question - "who am I?"

 

Am I this body or am I something else. From the Vedic

literature we get full information about who we really

are.

 

We are spirit souls inhabiting this physical body. We

are not matter. I am not this body, but my body is my

property. Just as I go to a shop and buy a car and I

own the car, similarly I have "bought" this body of

mine by my karmas done in my previous life. My karmas

have determined what type of body I have acquired in

this life.

 

By doing good actions and dedicating them to the lotus

feet of Vishnu (GOD), I can free myself from the

reactions of Karmas and go to the ETERNAL kingdom of

God, from where there is no return. There I will live

with God forever. In the Vedic literature this eternal

abode is called VAIKUNTHA.

 

Of course you can continue to remain a christian and

enter the same celestial abode as us Hindus.

 

Lord Krsna says in the Bhagavad Gita - "Aham bija

prada pita" (I am the seed giving father).

Therefore God is my father as well as yours. He

bestows his grace equally on all with no

discrimination.

 

We just have to shelter under his lotus feet, whether

we are inhabiting a Hindu body or christian body.

 

Jesus himself praised his father(GOD) in the bible by

saying "Hallowed be thy name!". Therefore we have to

chant his holy name always. The Lord's holy name is

called Hari-nama.

 

There is a great power in Hari-nama or the name of

God.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks,

rohit

I've been thinking about the Lord's Prayer lately. I'm realizing that it's more of an acknowledgement or reminder regarding the nature of reality than an actual petition.

 

The Lord's Will *is* done regardless of whether we are willing instruments of Divine Will. The Lord *does* give us our daily bread (or not) regardless of whether we acknowledge Him as the source.

The Lord's prayer is very contemplative. The words "hallowed be thy name" do not quite convey His meaning because the word "hallowed" is not much in use in contemporary times.

I found some very old translations by scholars of the Lord's prayer in sanskrit.

The translators translated "hallowed be" as puujyataam (derived from puujaa).

Therefore, modern translation makes the Lords' prayer sometimes read like statement of fact, but it is much more.

Therefore, the Lord first instructs His disciples to call address God as children address their father ... "Aboona" which means Dad or Daddy, not as the formal "Father".

So in the first line of the Lord's Prayer, we get something more like this:

Our first approach to God is as small child and with it comes the heartfelt Love that little one feels for "daddy". We can easily grasp, right away then, meditation of Love of God in the heart because the little children are tender. They yank on our heart strings easily ...

So we approach "daddy" with this kind of love and affection, and He responds.

This teaching of Jesus is therefore, consistent with Srila Rupa Goswami's teaching that we must be very childlike to get near to the intimate affairs of Radha Krsna.

Next the Holy Name of God is "very big" to a little child. Puujayaa(tam) .. Hallowed .. the Holy Name is worshipful .. it is the form of our worship.

A very ancient prayer in the Christian tradition is a salutation that goes like this:

"In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Amen"

EVERY prayer begins and ends with this prayer. So being "In the name" means being in "puuhayaa(tam)" of the Name. Worship the Holy Name.

Even one Name for Him is given in the prayer itself. Amen (Om)

"These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, who is the beginning of the creation of God." - Rev. 3:14

How to we properly give puujaa to God's holy Name. ie. How do we properly chant? This way:

"Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be Done" : in the spirit of surrender "Just surrender to Me"

And what happens when we give puujaa to God's Holy Name? .. Just what you said above.

"Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be Done" "Give us this day our daily bread"

Just what we materially need. Not necessarily what we materially want.

And Spiritually, everything:

"I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst. " - John 6:35

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me attracts him" - John 6:44

Gotta admit I am curious for the same information.

notice how fast this thread fell off the front page .. we are still waiting for the response

hs and yours.

You've already received the opinion. "Jesus as Vaisnava" (sic) is not a feature of mainstream Vaishnavism.

OK. Now I understand. YOU must be a Vaisnava and one having knowledge of Christ's teachings, Vaisnava teachings, and comparisons between both.

Can you tell us what branch of Vaisnavism you follow? Can you publish a link to your math or give us the name of your guru?

Since I am a spiritual seeker, I would like to read about your guru and his lineage, and their spiritual writings.

Please publish this so we can be fully enlightened.

Thank you for sharing.

When iskcon devotees claim that Jesus is something that he is not, it is not defamation to refute such claims. If the iskcon people could demonstrate some semblance of intellectual honesty, they would accept the weaknesses inherent in their claims instead of flinging accusations of "defamation" and so on when people scrutinize them.

Proclaiming Jesus as avatar is not limited to Vaisnavism or ISKCON.

"One of his young charges had a bible and used to read to Sri Ramakrishna stories from the bible. He became enamored of the wonderful stories of the life of Christ and of the beautiful picture of the Madonna with the Divine Child and fully immersed his mind in the Christian images for three days. On the fourth day as he was walking he saw an extraordinary looking person of serene aspect approaching him with his gaze intently fixed on him. Presently the figure drew near and from the inmost recesses of Sri Ramakrishna's heart there came the realization: "There is the Christ who poured out his heart's blood for the redemption of mankind and suffered agonies for its sake. It is none else but the Master-Yogin Jesus, the embodiment of Love!" In his divine vision the Son of Man embraced Sri Ramakrishna and became merged in him. The Master lost outward consciousness in Samadhi, realizing his union with Brahman with attributes. Thus was he convinced that Jesus Christ was an Incarnation of the Lord." -- http://www.geocities.com/neovedanta/srk.html

Accepting all religions as valid paths to God, we also accept their Avatars as incarnations of God. Where Vedanta differs from some other faiths is that we believe God has incarnated many times: as Jesus, as Buddha, as Sri Ramakrishna, and many others. Vedanta embraces them all! -- http://203.199.162.246:8080/soft/vedanta/vedUserFaqs.jsp#Jesus%20and%20Buddha

God has come doon tae earth in human form. thes is fur real. his original name is "shri. lahari krishna" ( commonly called as shreeman narayana (or) allah (or) christ-jesus ) -- http://www.narayanaconsciousness.net/Site_publish/Scot/Prayer.htm

and the list goes on

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya!

Thank you gHari and Suchandra

May Krsna, the Loving Father of every living entity, through the Mercy of Balarama continue to bless you now and forever.

Hare Krsna! Jesu Ki Jaya!

Trouble writing in complete sentences (Her Servant)?

 

Given up claiming that anyone who disagrees with you is ipso facto "offensive to the Lord?"

 

 

And where did I make such a claim?

History has shown that one man with an idea, even a misguided man with a wrong idea, can inspire millions to destroy in his name. So yes, when I see his followers writing derogatory commentaries on our scriptures that form the basis of academic Indology, lobbying for the right to legally steal money from Hindu temples and use it to fund hate-propaganda against Hindus, and auctioning off sacred Vaishnava sites of pilgrimmage for the purpose of building churches, I have to admit that I'm a bit concerned about it.

But I suppose you would white-wash this sort of cultural destruction as a "conversion" to a simpler form of Vaishnavism, now wouldn't you?

I'm not concerned because I have faith in God and God has a plan.

I've always believed in respect of others tradition and cultures.

I started this threads as a means to discuss Christian perspective on Vedic scripture and investigate Vaisnava opinion on "Jesus as Vaisnava".

For quite some time, one may find many books where Hindus have commented on Jesus, the Bible and the Gospels:

http://www.amazon.com/Sermon-Mount-According-Vedanta-Prabhavananda/dp/0874810507

https://www.srfbooks.com/Item.asp?id=3238

The Yoga of Jesus - https://www.srfbooks.com/Item.asp?id=3446

CHRIST THE SAVIOUR AND CHRIST MYTH (A CRITICAL STUDY) -

http://www.ramakrishnavedantamath.org/puli2.html

Woman: How do you explain the fact that Jesus said that “I am the way, the truth, and the light,” and that “No man comes to the father but by me”?

 

Prabhup?da: What is that? Hm?

 

Madhudvi?a: She’s asking how can we explain that Jesus said he is the only way?

 

Prabhup?da: Yes, he is the only way. We also admit. Because he is the representative of God, so if you want to approach God, you must approach through His representative. That is His version. “I am the only representative of God,” then you have to reach God through him, that is fact --- - 740701LE.MEL

So I am merely soliciting sincere Vaisnava perspective on the topic for a "Spiritual Discussion" .. the main subject of this Forum.

Sorry you are so angry about my thread. Maybe you could put a socio-political thread in the "Main Forums" section to discuss cultural identity issues.

Have a nice day

No, the topic was raised because certain individuals with less-than-ethical motives continue to propagate a falsehood about Jesus' identity for the sole purpose of winning Western converts and increasing their sect's numbers.

 

It is only because the claims are so utterly devoid of logic and reason that their proponents must resort to accusations of hatred and bigotry in order to conceal their tracks from those who question them.

Afraid of "Western conversions" (to Jesus)?

Afraid of Jesus?

 

Lord Nrsimhadeva protects anyone who will take shelter of Him. Sudarsana-cakra protects the devotees, and this cakra is Sri Nrsimhadeva himself. Therefore, worship of the cakra is performed by offering the prayers of Lord Nrsinghadeva. This is why we worship Lord Nrsimhadeva – because He gives protection to the devotees.

Have you seen the Sudarsana-cakra directly?

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you" - Matt. 7:7

My concern was that a certain piece of data is presented and a certain conclusion derived: to what extent can the conclusion be accepted supposing one were to entertain the evidence, i.e. what the wikipedia suggests about Hri in other cultures? The conclusion here is that Vishnu was likely known to Jesus and others and the evidence is that some variant of Hari was prevalent with similar meaning. I simply pointed out that conclusion is not necessary

Dear HerServant, I was not at all researching this topic. In fact I was not and am not clear on your thesis based on such evidence. Only I found you posting such evidence and thought them worth questioning and I was identifying myself with your opponents: for one thing, you had perhaps "forgotten" to give this link with the previous post and people concluded it was from wikipedia and a lot of mental energy was wasted.

 

Here is something you may like from one of my sampradaya gurus:

 

http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part2/chap2.htm

 

I had read this before and am not against it, in fact quite happy at the idea. Our origins may be (let me call it) the Vedic religion that was prevalent everywhere.

 

But things add on and are developed over time. The world-religions of today obtain their identities through these developments. The same is true for the terms Vaishnava and Shaiva; they have specific connotations based on their development in India and not Africa or Jerusalem. This development includes proper interpretations of the Vedic religion and the Vedas; our acharyas have given many such on the basis of the same open scriptures and each has its place: ananda swami is pushing his evidence in one direction.

 

I would fancy that every Muslim in India and Indonesia is really a Hindu since their ancestors belonged to Hinduism (or its offshoot Buddhism). But though one may trace the roots of their ancestry in their lives and customs, it may be blasphemy (and hazardous, to both religions) to brush aside the subsequent developments and their present identifications. The same goes for Jesus and Europe: yes, perhaps the Vedic religion was prevalent 10000 years back (that your evidence points out) but to say Jesus is a Vaishnava therefore is belittling too many other factors. If you wish to identify with the Vedic roots and to Vaishnavism (let's say as it survived/developed in India) while maintaining your Christian faith, I don't have a problem: if you want Jesus to join the bandwagon, that is not something these sort of evidences may prove. Such a strategem in argument is also suspicious enough of creating long-term confusion that I will probably oppose to be safe.

 

Take off the Vaishnava link and say instead that Jesus also preached monotheism (or advaita if you wish) ultimately. That also is ok. But the use of an interconnection strategy with history, theology and philosophy to identify Jesus with Vaishnavism is mixing things in an undesirable manner and going deep into speculative lands.

 

[Anycase I am off for a while.]

We are in agreement. There is no conflict.

I accept your guru's statement:

"The fact according to me, is that in the beginning the Vedic religion was prevalent all over the world. Later, over the countries, it must have gone through a process of change and taken different forms. These forms came to be called the original religions of these various lands which in the subsequent period- during historical times- came under Buddhism, Christianity or Islam as the case may be."

There remains one small problem. Many many people on this forum WILL NOT.

Personally, I find no offense in other opinions, however many young devotees visit this forum to "investigate carefully, and decide correctly."

Therefore, it is my duty to proclaim the Truth as best as I possibly can, if I am very limited.

Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" - Matt. 5:9

Please accept my apologies if what I previously wrote was offensive to you in any way. The intentions of my posts are intended to promote peace through understanding and respect.

Her servant and yours