madhavachari

It´s been fun to see your reactions. Very few persons on these forums actually understand what I am talking about. Study more, unless you are already too brainwashed by your Bungla gooroos, and you will find out what is what. Take care.

Pankaja dasa, if you think Srivaishnavas believe in Radha you obviously need to study a lot harder!

Ok, let´s see those quotes!

Pankajadasa ji, if you knew anything about Srivaishnava philosophy you wouldn´t ask that question.

Yeah, well, this is not an upanishad that Srivaishnavas emphasize. But you Gaudiyas have taken your "maha-mantra" from it. And it says that by chanting the mantra one and a half crore times you get that particular result. If you rather walk around a tulasi plant instead of chanting it, feel free to do so.

But to replace the word Lakshmi with Radha is ludicrous in itself.

This is not a mantra, but verses in Bengali.

Sometimes.

As they are names of Narayana, why would anyone want to think about something else? For what purpose? As Narayana is the ultimate goal of all living beings according to the scriptures. On the other hand, thinking about a Radha does not make any sense and has nothing to do with reality. There is only ONE God, ladies and gentlemen...

The final word in this discussion is the origin of the mantra itself, namely Kali-santarana Upanishad! "'By merely uttering the names of the Primeval Purusha, who is Bhagavan Narayana, one is freed from the clutches of Kali.' Narada asked again: 'What are those names of Narayana?'" sa hovaca hiraNyagarbhah hare rAma hare rAma rAma rAma hare hare hare kRShNa hare kRShNa kRShNa kRShNa hare hare"

Your impression is totally wrong my friend. Are you implying that Sri Ramanuja Acharya didn´t argue against philosophical misconceptions of others?

It refers to Hari, not "Radha". No matter what others might say.

This doesn´t make any sense whatsoever Maharaj.

That makes sense. The philosophical contents of the GV Brahma-samhita can hardly be harmonized with Madhva´s philosophy. </rind_19>

What is the smashing about? How old are you? Anyway, here is a hopefully clearer translation: iti ShoDaSakalAvRtasya jIvasyAvaraNavinASanam | tatah prakASate param brahma meghApAye raviraSmimanDalIveti | Tr: "(This mantra) destroys the sixteen kalas of the jiva, beginning with the prana, which constitute the veil of ignorance. Then the Supreme Brahman shines forth, just as the solar disc shines forth brilliantly when the clouds vanish." Ok, I didn´t read it the way you did though. Sense of individuality in the other translation I read as false ego. Which is quite different! However, merging with God is also a possibility as per the Vedas. So don´t criticize it.

There are witnesses who heard the conversation between Saraswati Thakur and a babaji in Vrindavan. And Saraswati T allegedly said that he had received initiation in a dream. I don´t know if he referred to Sannyasa or Diksha though.

I guess you are used to translations that interpret the words instead of translating them. As I said, there is nothing impersonal about Brahman. Nor is brahmajyoti impersonal. Because the Lord is not different from His attributes, such as the transcendental light. What you are doing is to interpret Brahman as "impersonal Brahman devoid of qualities" in the style of Brahma-samhita and Gaudiyas in general. But that is not what it means. Another point. See that the names Hari, Krishna and Rama, which are in the Vishnu sahasranaman, are names of NARAYANA. It doesn´t say names of KRISHNA. Here is another translation of this Upanishad. Which by the way is a rather recent upanishad, but accepted because it is in harmony with the Vedas. The Kalisantarana Upanishad --------------------------- AUM saha nAvavatu | saha nau bhunaktu | saha vIryam karavAvahai | tejasvi nAvadhitamastu mA vidviShAvahai | AUM Santih Santih Santih | Tr: May God protect us (the Guru and the disciple). May we both enjoy the results (of this Upanishad). May we attain strength together. Let the study of this (Upanishad) be illuminating to both of us. Let us not show contempt for each other. Peace. Peace. Peace. harih AUM | dvAparAnte nArado brahmANam jagAma katham bhagavan gAm paryaTan kalim santareyam iti | Tr: At the end of Dvapara Yuga, Narada, after traveling the world, approached Lord Brahma and asked him: "How may I overcome the (evil effects of) the Kali Yuga?" sa hovaca brahmA sAdhu pRShTo asmi sarvaSrutirahasyam gopyam tacchRuNu yena kalisamsAram tariShyasi | Tr: Brahma said: "You have asked me an excellent question. I shall reveal to you the secret of all Vedas, by which you will cross over the (ocean of) samsara filled with the bad effects of the Kali Yuga. This secret must be preserved and protected." bhagavata AdipuruShasya nArAyaNasya nAmoccAraNamAtreNa nirdhRtakalir bhavati| nAradah punah papraccha tannAma kimiti | Tr: "By merely uttering the names of the Primeval Purusha, who is Bhagavan Narayana, one is freed from the clutches of Kali." Narada asked again: "What are those names of Narayana?" sa hovaca hiraNyagarbhah | Tr: Lord Brahma said: hare rAma hare rAma rAma rAma hare hare | Tr: O Hari, O Rama, O Hari, O Rama , O Rama O Rama, O Hari, O Hari! hare kRShNa hare kRShNa kRShNa kRShNa hare hare | Tr: O Hari, O Krishna, O Hari, O Krishna , O Krishna O Krishna, O Hari, O Hari! iti ShoDaSakam nAmnAm kalikalmaShanASanam | nAtah parataropAyah sarvavedeShu dRSyate | Tr: This collection of sixteen names (of Narayana) destroys the evils of the Kali Yuga. I don't see any other effective means (of liberation) in the Vedas. iti ShoDaSakalAvRtasya jIvasyAvaraNavinASanam | tatah prakASate param brahma meghApAye raviraSmimanDalIveti | Tr: (This mantra) destroys the sixteen kalas of the jiva, beginning with the prana, which constitute the veil of ignorance. Then the Supreme Brahman shines forth, just as the solar disc shines forth brilliantly when the clouds vanish. punarnAradah papraccha bhagavan ko asya vidhiriti | tam hovaca nAsya vidhiriti | Tr: Narada asked: " O Bhagavan, what are the regulations or injunctions to be followed in chanting these names?" Brahma said: "There are no regulations to be followed." sarvadA SuciraSucirvA pathan brAhmaNah salokatAm samIpatAm sarUpatAm sAyujyatAmeti | Tr: "By chanting these names always, whether in a clean or unclean state, a brahmana obtains the four kinds of liberation, sAlokya, sAmIpya, sArUpya and sAyujya." Notes: 1) sAlokya -- living in the abode of God 2) sAmIpya -- living in the proximity of God 3) sArupya -- living with a form identical with God 4) sAyujya -- merging with the body of God yadAsya ShoDaSikasya sArdhatrikoTIrjapati tadA brahmahatyAm tarati| tarati vIrahatyAm | Tr: When a brahmana chants this mantra of sixteen names, for a total of one and one half crore times, he becomes free from the sin of killing a brahmaNa. He overcomes the sin of neglecting his domestic fire. svarNasteyAt pUto bhavati | pitRdevamanuShyANAmapakArAt pUto bhavati | Tr: He becomes free from the sin of stealing gold. He becomes free from the offences committed against forefathers, Gods and human beings. sarvadharmaparityAgapApAt sadyah SucitAmApnuyAt | sadyo mucyate sadyo mucyate ityupaniShat | Tr: He quickly becomes free from the sin of giving up all religious duties. He becomes liberated immediately; he becomes liberated immediately. Thus the Upanishad. AUM saha nAvavatu | saha nau bhunaktu | saha vIryam karavAvahai | tejasvi nAvadhitamastu mA vidviShAvahai | AUM Santih Santih Santih | Tr: May God protect us (the Guru and the disciple). May we both enjoy the results (of this Upanishad). May we attain strength together. Let the study of this (Upanishad) be illuminating to both of us. Let us not show contempt for each other. Peace. Peace. Peace.

Yes and they have spread all over the world.

In fact, you are the one who talks about "impersonal God". But God is not impersonal or devoid of attributes - ever.

They were not even members of the Sri sampradaya proper, and they were certainly not scholars, which is evident from their answers. They were Ramanandis, whom are a splinter group - their acharya claims he received initiation in a dream, like Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati.

"Impersonalistic"? What is that? If you are thinking that Brahman is impersonal, you are wrong. And God´s light (brahmajyoti) is another of his qualities and as you might know, He is inseparable from His qualities.

Someone questioned why people who are not Gaudiyas, such as Yogakriya (Shaiva I guess) and myself (Srivaishnava), are here on the Hare Krishna forum. I don´t want to cause any disturbance and the purpose is not to prove that "we are right". But there are issues in the Gaudiya line that need to be addressed and which are very unclear. So far nobody has been able to clarify. So, if I (and all other traditional vaishnavas in India and the world) see all these problems in your sampradaya, perhaps you should listen to your big brothers and be humble enough to reconsider your position.

But only Gaudiyas accept their own interpretation.

YES Sri Sampradaya means devotee and servant of Lakshmi and Narayana.

NO