brajeshwara das

Scriptures are the only guide we can have because it comes from the perfect source.

 

Svetasvatara Upanisad (6.23):

yasya deve para bhaktir

yatha deve tatha gurau

tasyaite kathita hy arthao

prakaiante mahatmanao

“The key to success in spiritual life is unflinching devotion to both the spiritual master and Krishna. To those great souls who have full faith in both Krishna and the spiritual master, the inner meaning of the scriptures is fully revealed.”

Mr. brajeshwara das seems you even read Nector of Devotion, but talking as if you were the writer of Vedas when mentioning that Lord Siva is Krsna"s devotee. Ha ! Ha!

Siva is Krsna Devotee as same as Krsna is Siva's Devotee. Try to learn the Sudarshana Chakra's puruana and you will know the truth of Siva nad Krsna. Stop talking like an Hare Krsna devotee.

I think JHCal's post says what needs to be said. He's totally right that we should back up what we say with higher authority. Of course I am low and unqualified, but I am only repeating what I have heard from the Acharyas:

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A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada: Lord Siva is a demigod, but he is higher than all other demigods. He's higher than Lord Brahma also. But he's not the Supreme Lord. Just like there are different gradations. That is not difficult to understand. In society also, there are different gradations. Similarly, the living entities, there are different gradations. So all the living entities, they are, some of them are situated in higher planets, some of them are situated in lower planets, some of them are situated in high-grade life, in low-grade life. So the demigods are also, they are living entities, but they are enjoying better standard of life due to their acts of piety. But Lord Siva is not amongst the living entities. He's above the living entities but he is counted as one of the demigods. But his position is better than Lord Brahma even. Brahma is to be the highest living entity within the universe, and Lord Siva's position is higher than Lord Brahma.

Srila Sridhar Maharaj addressed this: From Subjective Evolution of Consciousness:

These aspects of theism have been dealt with in a very scientific way in the Brahma Samhita of Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Once, I considered from this point of view the question of the planets in Vedic cosmology. We see that by the movement of the different planets, a solar eclipse is caused by the moon’s shadow falling upon the Earth. And yet in the scriptures it has been described that during an eclipse, the planet Rahu is devouring the sun or the moon. When Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura was in Puri during his last days and an eclipse came, one devotee who was supposed to know siddhanta, the conclusions of scripture, was sitting next to Prabhupada. He suddenly ridiculed the idea given in the Bhagavatam that during a solar or lunar eclipse Rahu devours the sun or moon. I could not tolerate that such a remark should be passed in regard to the Bhagavatam and argued that what Srimad Bhagavatam has stated is not to be taken lightly. I offered what seemed like some far-fetched support. I said that in his Jaiva Dharma, Bhaktivinoda Thakura has created so many characters, but I think that they are not imaginary. What he has written might have occurred during some other millennium {kalpa}, or day of Brahma, and that has now come to the surface. In this way I went on to support the cosmological position of the Bhagavatam by arguing that what is necessary to prove reality must also have some real position. It cannot but be. In this way my argument went and Prabhupada supported me. In understanding the position of the planet Rahu, what Sukadeva and Vyasadeva have said is geographically impossible, but their statements are there in Srimad Bhagavatam, and the literal meaning of the scriptures is not to be taken lightly. Considering the importance of the literal meaning of scripture, Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja presented Bhagavad-gita As It Is. I thought, “How am I to prove what the Bhagavatam says? I don’t know. But what is said in Srimad Bhagavatam must be true. I have faith in that.” There are so many statements on the cosmology of the universe in the scriptures. The Aryans, the spiritually developed men of former times, used to see everything as consciousness. They saw that the shadow is also conscious. The shadow, abhasa, is also considered to be a stage of consciousness. Only through that shadowy stage of consciousness can we come to the material conception of a thing. Before we reach the conception of a shadow, we must pass through some mental stage, and personification may be attached to that mental stage. The personification of the shadow may be referred to as “Rahu.”

The soul approaches matter, the material world, but before that, he must pass through a shadowy stage of consciousness called cidabhasa. Consciousness passes through the shadow level of consciousness into matter, non-consciousness. And that shadow stage of consciousness has its personality. It is also conscious, and may be known as “Rahu.”

Every material conception presupposes a spiritual conception of that particular thing. The shadow through which consciousness must pass in order to perceive things as material has personality, and in the Bhagavatam, the Rsis, the seers of the truth, are addressing it as Rahu. Because they are highly developed, they find the personal aspect of existence everywhere. What we perceive to be dead matter, they perceive to be conscious. Therefore, they always take the personal perspective. The soul, when going to experience any material conception, will have to pass through a medium which influences his consciousness to see things as material. What is concrete matter is unknown. It is a mere effect of consciousness. As everything material must have some conscious origin, or origin in personal consciousness, there must be a personal conception of the sun, the moon, the Earth, and all the planets. Before we reach the conception of a shadow or an other object, the soul has to pass through a conscious stage.

That stage has some spiritual existence as a person. Therefore the Bhagavatam refers to the sun, the moon, and the planet Rahu, as persons. Everything – the Earth, the moon, the stars, the planets – has a personal conception. In the background of what we can perceive with our dull senses, everything that is said to be matter, there must be a personal conception. Without the influence of a personal conception, consciousness cannot reach the stage of gross matter. Therefore, in the ancient scriptures we find that the great sages and Rsis are always addressing everything within this world as a person. Although to us it is dead matter, they have considered them as persons. Why? The matter is rather the shadow of the personal entity. The personal, conscious entity is more real, and the matter we perceive through dimmed consciousness is less real.

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Probably the hardest thing to do in a planetatium project like this would be to convey the spiritual truth through physical allegories and examples. It's likely completely impossible and most wouldn't get it even if it were.

A visa is only a temporary, conditional entry. There is no visa to the spiritual world, only eternal existance.

Anyway, we should not be concerned about any visa for entry.

We should only be concerned about a permit to remember Krishna and serve him.

Entry to that realm should not be our concern or our desire.

We should only be concerned that the Lord grant us eternal remembrance of him.

Visa = eternal remembrance, a grant from the Lord descending to us. That is always how I thought Srila Sridhar Maharaj intended it to be understood. Also it was not a temporary entry but entering into His eternal service:

From Search for Sri Krishna:

In the Bhagavad-Gita (15.6) Krishna says, “One who reaches My abode never returns to this material world (yad gatvana nivartante tad dhama parama mama). The dissolution will go on in the plane of the material world, but if you can secure a visa for that land, if you can enter into that soil, you will never be mishandled. When the sun, moon, and stars are all dissolved, your eternal self, your devotional ego, will be quite safe in My plane.”

I certainly agree that what we should strive for is service above all else, Gurudeva please send me to hell itself if that is your desire. That is the ideal.

Yes, fool-proof. That is why this fool is here. With the mercy of the Vaisnavas one day maybe I will be granted a visa to that world!

ok, I haven't read all the posts in this thread so forgive me if this is off topic, but here is my perspective: I don't think I want Intelligent Design taught to my kid in US public schools. This is primarily because I believe my Guru and temple, and myself, should be providing this education so he doesn't get any crippling misconceptions. The Christian Fundamentalists definitely aren't friendly to Gaudiya Vaisnavas from my experience (I've been told I'm going to hell too many times now, to me that is the same as being told to go to hell) and these groups seem the most active in getting this agenda made into law. Even subtle wordings of things can have a profound influence.

I do like some sort of charter school system that allows groups of all faiths to help run thier own schools where thier faith can be properly represented. I would love to be able to send my son to the Vaisnava equivelent of Catholic School.

BTW, many here aren't 'hindus' but Gaudiya Vaisnavas or something else. It may be too much for the context of your assignment to differentiate, but there you go. 'Hinduism' in a big word that can encompass Personalists, Impersonalists, theism and athiesm.

Could someone tell me what chapter of Nectar of Devotion Lord Ganesha is mentioned? I'd like to read that

BTW, I'll have to read it online, I don't have the book so a Vedabase link would be swell.

 

You have true love for Him beyond all doubts?

If someone offends you, your response is to offend them back? It may be the way of this material world, but this is isn't a 'natural' transcendental position. We should remember the exhalted persons we are speaking of here deserve our respect even when in fundamental disagreement, and act or refrain from acting accordingly.

different people have different dispositions. do not try to attempt a full fast if you cannot. i know vaishnavas who eat as much on ekadasi as they would on any other day except for avoiding grain and dairy

 

It is more important to treat ekadasi as a day devoted to Krishna and remember him all day.

 

Hare Krishna

We have curd subjis on Ekadasi at my temple. I never heard Ekadasi was no dairy.

I bow down at the feet of all who aspire to worship God with sincerity. I must be chaste to my Guru and His teachings, but I know that depending on each soul's necessity the Divine Grace and Mercy is there.

ye yathā māḿ prapadyante

tāḿs tathaiva bhajāmy aham

mama vartmānuvartante

manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ

If you think Krsna's name is Siva so what? I am not qualified to argue the point and wouldn't expect anyone to be won over even if I were

My understanding is also that Lord Siva is Krsna's devotee, but in aspiring to be a Gaudiya Vaisnava, I strive to serve the Lord's devotees, not the Lord directly. So I bow down to Lord Shiva to please give me His mercy and forgive my offenses if I don't approach Him in the correct way.

The ekadashi preparations at my local temples are too delicious to pass by, plus there is the service of honoring prasadam to consider. As I understand it we should also try and do extra service on ekadashi, so that means lots of prasadam

gambling

Just my perspective: I think I should try and pay my respects to those I can't support for whatever reasons from a distance. A very far distance perhaps. But still I should pay my respects because I don't know who's who or what's what. But knowing imitationism to be the greatest enemy of devotion, and that I am a beginning beginner, I should protect my creeper by having chastity in and seeking fulfillment exclusively from my Guru parampara. This is the safe position, because I don't have to risk vaisnava aparadha.

How many disiples can a guru accept anyway? I know Srila Prabhupada had many but he was from the spiritual world. Surely there has to be a limit to how many peoples karma a guru can take?

Who is to say Srila Swami Maharaj Prabhupada was the only Guru in such a position? Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math sees Swami Maharaj as a shaktavesh-avatara, certainly so exhalted, but if you have the association of Srila Govinda Maharaj and Srila Sridhar Maharaj, you will realize Guru is there in it's fullest manifestation. And of course this isn't limited to my Guru parampara, I have to believe the mercy of the Lord transcends Gaudya Vaisnavism.

Maybe you are looking at your Guru with mundane eyes, really your Guru may be doing seemingly mundane activities but really they are transcendental and beyond your current vision.

I hate to relate stories I don't know in detail, but here you go: One very strict Gaudiya Math Guru wouldn't allow anyone in his ashram to read a newspaper, but Srila Sridhar Maharaj came to visit and was given a newspaper to read. Because Srila Sridhar Maharaj was so elevated, there was no question that His mind would be disturbed by the daily news, since it was understood He saw the transcendental nature everywhere.

My Gurudeva is Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda dev Goswami Maharaj, who is faithfully leading Srila Sridhar Maharaj's mission and providing sweet shelter to so many sincere seekers. I may be biased but perhaps you could seek His darshan and let your heart decide.

Just wanted to add something here:

I consider Jesus to be my first Guru in this life, He set me up with a foundation I could progress to find the Vaisnavas and the path that most resonates within my heart. I would say the one thing I really appreciate the most from 'Hinduism' in the inclusiveness in seeing Divinity wherever He appears. This is often lacking in other faiths or sects within faiths.

Guest654, thank you for answering so nicely, I have a lot to contemplate. I'm reading Subjective Evolution again and I'll try to look for some insight there.

As I understand it there is some sort of giant ant colony in the US that spans states, could this possibly be ruled by one devata? So many jivas under the control of one demigod. Mind-boggling!

It's me again.

 

This is in fact what Srila Sridhar Maharaj said things are.

 

Take a look at the magazine "Guardian of Devotion" by Madhava Puri Maharaj.

 

The body, mind and ego are different from the jiva soul. Mind is controlled by a Devata (demigod). A demigod is controlling flocks of birds that act as a "whole" and the jiva souls seeing the world through the eyes of individual birds are "passengers" - the soul is not the "doer" (as is explained in the Gita) - rather these passengers are witnessing the movements of material energy which is being controlled by the Devas.

 

Souls in animal bodies are different from their bodies. The soul tries to feel the feelings of material life, like a bird tasting fruit (see the Gita). But really the soul is different from the actions of the body which are controlled by the Devas.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj's presentation on this topic follows the presentation of Madvacharya of Udupi in South India. It is a very complex topic and I'm sure many people will object to this or that aspect of what I am saying. But then I must advise I will not try and argue this point with people. Take it or leave it.

Ah, so that explains a lot. I had the feeling there was 'someone' in each ant, but somehow something larger was controlling everything so I wasn't quite sure. I knew it wasn't just some chemical reaction or genetic programming. It was a very long time ago so my memory is a bit hazy, but it was a 'high' feeling experience and I was rather blown away by it all.

The devata explains it! So the devata has some kind of more subtle body not contained in an ant, the devata isn't the queen for instance?

Yes, why not? The grafts have thousands of plant cells, each with their individual soul. Same as your body - 1 trillion LIVING cells make up your body, each with their souls. And why stop there? Perhaps we can go even more microscopic!

So each cell in my body is a separate jiva? I can understand that the various virii, bacteria etc are definitely, but is there any scriptues to support that? Are plants different in nature (like colonies?) than animal life?

I once had some thought (I thought it a revelation at the time, silly me) that ant colonies were actually one conscious being, just manifest through cells that extended to separate bodies. Anyway, I don't know what I'm talking about.

Dandabats Guest654, I will write Akinchana Maharaj right now :-)

I was just wondering how the jiva soul is with a plant that has a clone taken from it, or has a graft added to it? Is the soul split when a clone or graft taken from it? There are trees that for generations are only growing from one root source (called cultivars) and this just bewilders me. So thousands, millions of trees grown from cuttings off one specimen. ?

Sorry, I know this isn't helpful, but it reminds me of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada going throughout Vrindavan and saying he couldn't find one Vaisnava. I don't know why, but thanks.

Maybe if you could give more info on the devotee you are seeking? Westerner, India, dark or light skin/hair, tall, short, first letter of the name? I don't know. Just trying to be helpful

I would like to know the source of the article, I don't have faith in that until I see some real documentation though I don't discount the possibility, but I do put my faith in this:

PURPORT

The brahmāstra is similar to the modern nuclear weapon manipulated by atomic energy. The atomic energy works wholly on total combustibility, and so the brahmāstra also acts. It creates an intolerable heat similar to atomic radiation, but the difference is that the atomic bomb is a gross type of nuclear weapon, whereas the brahmāstra is a subtle type of weapon produced by chanting hymns. It is a different science, and in the days gone by such science was cultivated in the land of Bhārata-varṣa. The subtle science of chanting hymns is also material, but it has yet to be known by the modern material scientists. Subtle material science is not spiritual, but it has a direct relationship with the spiritual method, which is still subtler. A chanter of hymns knew how to apply the weapon as well as how to retract it. That was perfect knowledge. But the son of Droṇācārya, who made use of this subtle science, did not know how to retract. He applied it, being afraid of his imminent death, and thus the practice was not only improper but also irreligious. As the son of a brāhmaṇa, he should not have made so many mistakes, and for such gross negligence of duty he was to be punished by the Lord Himself.