AncientMariner

but I was just reading a book by Joseph Campbell called "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" and He mentioned the tale of an ancient Hindu warrior-king named Muchukunda. Its in a chapter about the hero-quest being fulfilled but the hero refusing to return and play the part of the renewer of civilization. "When the hero-quest has been accomplished, through penetration fo the source, or through the grace of some male or female, human or animal, personification, the adventurer still must return with his life-transmuting trophy. The full round, the norm of the monomyth, requires that the hero shall now begin the labor of bringing the runes of wisdom, the Golden Fleece, or his sleeping princess, back into the kingdom of humanity, where the boon may rebound to the renewing of the community, the nation, the planet, or the ten thousand worlds. "But the responsibility has been frequently refused. Even the Buddha, after his triumph, doubted whether the message of realization could be communicated, and saints are reported to have passed away while in supernal ecstasy. Numerous indeed are the heroes fabled to have taken up residence forever in the blessed isle of the unaging Goddess of Immortal Being." "A moving tale is told of an ancient Hindu warrior-king named Muchukunda. He was born from his father's left side, the father having swallowed by mistake a fertility potion that the Brahmins had prepared for his wife; and in keeping with the promising symbolism of this miracle, the motherless marvel, fruit of the male womb, grew to be such a king among kings that when the gods, at one period, were suffering defeat in the perpetual contest with the demons, they called upon him for help. He assisted them to a mighty victory, and they, in their divine pleasure, granted him the realization of his highest wish. But what should such a king, himself almost omnipotent, desire? What greatest boon of boons could be conceived of by such a master among men? King Muchukunda, so runs the story, was very tired after his battle: all he asked was that he might be granted a sleep without end, and that any person chancing to arouse him should be burned to a crisp by the first glance of his eye." "The boon was bestowed. In a cavern chamber, deep within the womb of a mountain, King Muchukunda retired to sleep, and there slumbered through the revolving eons. Individuals, peoples, civilizations, world ages, came into being out of the void and dropped back into it again, while the old king, in his state of sub-conscious bliss, endured. Timeless as the Freudian unconscious beneath the dramatic time world of our fluctuating ego-experience, that old mountain man, the drinker of deep sleep, lived on and on." "His awakening came-but with a surprising turn that throws into new perspective the whole problem of the hero-circuit, as well as the mystery of a mighty king's request for sleep as the highest conceivable boon." "Vishnu, the Lord of the World, had become incarnate in the person of a beautiful youth named Krishna, who, having saved the land of India from a tyrannical race of demons, had assumed the throne. And he had been ruling in Utopian peace, when a horde of barbarians suddenly invaded from the northwest. Krishna the king went against them, but, in keeping with his divine nature, won the victory playfully, by a simple ruse. Unarmed and garlanded with lotuses, he came out of his stronghold and tempted the enemy king to pursue and catch him, then dodged into a cave. When the barbarian followed, he discovered someone lying there in the chamber asleep." ""Oh!" thought he. "So he has lured me here and now feigns to be a harmless sleeper." "He kicked the figure lying on the ground before him, and it stirred. It was King Muchukunda. The figure rose and the eyes that had been closed for unnumbered cycles of creation, world history, and dissolution, opened slowly to the light. The first glance that went forth struck the enemy king, who burst into a torch of flame and was reduced immediately to a smoking heap of ash. Muchukunda turned, and the second glance struck the garlanded beautiful youth, whom the awakened old king straightway recognized by his radiance as an incarnation of God. And Muchukunda bowed before his Savior with the following prayer: "My Lord God! When I lived and wrought as a man, I lived and wrought-straying restlessly; through many lives, birth after birth, I sought and suffered, nowhere knowing cease or rest. Distress I mistook for joy. Mirages appearing over the desert I mistook for refreshing waters. Delights I grasped, and what I obtained was misery. Kingly power and earthly possession, riches and might, friends and sons, wife and followers, everything that lures the senses: I wanted them all, because I believed that these would bring me beatitude. But the moment anything was mine it changed its nature, and became a burning fire. "Then I found my way into the company of the gods, and they welcomed me as a companion. But where, still, surcease? Where rest? The creatures of this world, gods included, all are tricked, my Lord God, by your playful ruses; that is why the continue in their futile round of birth, life agony, old age, and death. Between lives, they confront the lord of the dead and are forced to endure hells of every degree of pitiless pain. And it all comes from you!" "My Lord God, deluded by your playful ruses, I too was a prey of the world, wandering in a labyrinth of error, netted in the meshes of ego-consciousness. Now, therefore, I take refuge in your Presence-the boundless, the adorable- desiring only freedom from it all." "When Muchukunda stepped from his cave, he saw that men, since his departure, had become reduced in stature. He was a giant amongst them. And so he departed from them again, retreated to the highest mountains, and there dedicated himself to the ascetic practices that should finally release him form his last attachment to the forms of being." "Muchukunda, in other words, instead of returning, decided to retreat one degree still further from the world. And who shall say that his decision was altogether without reason?"

Chanting Hare Krishna does affect the weather. At first I thought it was my imagination but now I am certain of it.

I didn't meant to be critical of the Rtvik system as I know virtually nothing about it. When you guys start talking about Rtvik and all that it seems like a foreign language to me. I didn't mean to criticize another person's method of worship.

If you choose to surrender to Krishna you can skip over so many formalities and ceremonies etc. involved in religous ritualism. Rtvik this, rtvik that blah, blah, blah. Man Srila Prabhupada is the greatest. That's my two cents, my two cents is free.

You summed it up perfectly why I choose Srila Prabhupada as my guru. Too many cheaters out there and when you have found the real deal like Srila Prabhupada that is a rare find.

Was that when you are associating with Srila Prabhupada's books it is no different than associating with Him if you are doing it in the mood of devotional service. Sure a demonic person can misunderstand His books but that person is not following His books anyways because Srila Prabhupada says in His books that they can only be understood in a spirit of devotion. Srila Prabhupada is right there in His books. He is my guru, I need look no further but whatever works for you my friend.

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 1 Chapter 2 text 18 "By regular attendance in classes on the Bhagavatam and by rendering of service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact." Purport "Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhagavatas. There are two types of Bhagavatas, namely the book Bhagavata and the devotee Bhagavata. Both the Bhagavatas are competent remedies, and both of them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. A devotee Bhagavata is as good as the book Bhagavata because the devotee Bhagavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhagavata and the book Bhagavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhagavatas. Bhagavata book and person are identical."

But what I read is association of the book bhagavata is as good as association of the person bhagavata. As far as following his instructions go his main instructions that I read were to chant Hare Krishna and don't engage in meat-eating, intoxication, illicit sex or gambling. Am I wrong?

That is the conclusion I have come to myself as well. After reading and reading Srila Prabhupada's books I have come to the conclusion that all that is needed to go home back to Godhead is all in there. Why should I go to a bunch of trouble to find a guru who may or may not be as qualified as Srila Prabhupada when I have all of Srila Prabhupada's books? At this point in my life I am looking for the most simple and direct way back to Godhead and I have absolute faith in Srila Prabhupada's instructions. I am sorry if I am offending any modern guru or any institution associated with Krishna but after having lived a life where I have seen cheating in every form I know for certain I am not being cheated by Prabhupada so what more could I ask for. My search is officially over. Srila Prabhupada is my guru wether he is alive or dead.

You guys appear to me to be advanced devotees and hopefully that is not just due to my materially defective eyes so does associating in this chatroom with advanced devotees count for good merit with Krishna?

So now that Srila Prabhupada has passed on to the spiritual world who is the most qualified representative of Krishna currently in physical embodiement? Isn't that the person I should seek association with if associating with Srila Prabhupada's books is not enough? How do I go about finding this person or will He just appear to me when He sees my heart is properly cleansed of material desires?

The best I can do is chant Hare Krishna and follow the regulative principles. I don't know if that qualifies as serving a spiritual master but that is all I can do now. Maybe when I get older I will be able to do more.

that it was Krishna who wrote the Shakespearean plays. How could it have been anyone but Krishna?

So if a Vaisnava is around people that He knows are going to commit offenses against the Lord and Vaisnavas isn't it more merciful for a Vaisnava to leave those people's company so that they don't commit offenses at the feet of a Vaisnava?

I didn't mean to offend anyone with my statement. You are right it is all just do the effects of the Kali-yuga. The Lord wants to generate unwanted population in the Kali-yuga. Sorry for my misconcieved misunderstandings. George used his material position to achieve spiritual perfection through the grace of Srila Prabhupada. It's all in good fun blaming Elvis and the Beatles for all of the problems in the Kali-yuga. I know my sense of humor is warped but its the just the way I am.

but the Beatles are the ones that unleashed all this unwanted population on us. George Harrison turned out to be a pretty good guy but between the Beatles and Elvis they are the ones who opened Pandora's box so to speak and it is going to be a long time until the lid gets put back on the box.

Well to be frank with you the people I live around are more in need of a good spanking from Krishna than anything else. I don't think anything else in the world would wake them up. It's all good though. I am glad I have sanction to save myself because to be honest with you I wouldn't want to take on these people's karma for anything. Srila Prabhupada was truely incredible in taking on the karma that He did but He was one in a million.

and come to the conclusion that there is virtually no chance of converting the people around you into Krishna Conscious people what are you supposed to do? At that point is it alright simply to save yourself?

So what happens to ISKCON now? I am a person that has never had any association with ISKCON but I was fortunate enough to come across Srila Prabhupada's books and as a result I now chant the Hare Krishna mantra but I know virtually nothing about ISKCON as an organization.

I have played Jedi Knight II. I learned more from the game Civilization than I ever learned in 16 years of schooling. I am not going to advocate video games because I don't think Srila Prabhupada would have probably been in favor of them but being the hypocrite that I am I do play them. Since I have been chanting Hare Krishna I have found my enjoyment of video games has gone down some but I do have my days when I still love them. In fact I'll be straight up honest with you, I find the X-Box to be a masterful piece of technology and truly a work of art.

I have played Jedi Knight II. I learned more from the game Civilization than I ever learned in 16 years of schooling. I am not going to advocate video games because I don't think Srila Prabhupada would have probably been in favor of them but being the hypocrite that I am I do play them. Since I have been chanting Hare Krishna I have found my enjoyment of video games has gone down some but I do have my days when I still love them. In fact I'll be straight up honest with you, I find the X-Box to be a masterful piece of technology and truly a work of art.

Someone should make a Krishna video game. You could really make something amazing if you knew how to do it. I know I'll probably get flack for it because technically video games are probably a form of material sense gratification but if you could relate it to Krishna wouldn't it spiritualize it?

Someone should make a Krishna video game. You could really make something amazing if you knew how to do it. I know I'll probably get flack for it because technically video games are probably a form of material sense gratification but if you could relate it to Krishna wouldn't it spiritualize it?

At this point if you are a person endeavoring for spiritual improvement in the Western world I don't see how you can be anything but sarcastic. Maybe Krishna is punishing me by putting me into a world where when I am serious people think I am joking and when I am joking people think I am serious. If it is punishment I have to say it has become so comical that I am rather enjoying it at this point. You know there has to be something animating the body of an animal but try telling that to any Westerner, even a so called religous Westerner and they are most of the time going to laugh at you. I don't need to watch horror movies at all because I haven't found one that is near as frightening as watching the endless armies of meat-eaters here in America.

At this point if you are a person endeavoring for spiritual improvement in the Western world I don't see how you can be anything but sarcastic. Maybe Krishna is punishing me by putting me into a world where when I am serious people think I am joking and when I am joking people think I am serious. If it is punishment I have to say it has become so comical that I am rather enjoying it at this point. You know there has to be something animating the body of an animal but try telling that to any Westerner, even a so called religous Westerner and they are most of the time going to laugh at you. I don't need to watch horror movies at all because I haven't found one that is near as frightening as watching the endless armies of meat-eaters here in America.