AncientMariner

"Krsna and his representative are the same. Similarly, the spiritual master can be present wherever the disciple wants. A spiritual master is the principle, not the body. Just like a television can be seen in thousands of places by the principle of relay monitoring." (Letter to Malati, 28/5/68)

"I also do not feel seperation from my Guru Maharaja. When I am engaged in his service, his pictures give me sufficient strength. To serve master's word is more important than to serve him physically." (Letter to Syamasundara, 19/7/70) "I went to your country for the spreading this information of Krsna Consciousness and you are helping me with my mission, although I am not physically present there but spiritually I am always with you." (Letter to Hamsadutta, 22/6/70) "So that is called prakata, physically present. And there is another phrase, which is called aprakata, not physically present. But that does not mean, Krsna is dead or God is dead. That does not mean, prakata or aprakata, physically present or not present, it does not matter." (Lectures SB 73/12/11) "So my Guru Maharaja will be very, very much pleased with you... it is not that he is dead and gone. That is not spiritual understanding... he is seeing. I never feel that I am alone." (Lecture, 2/3/75) Much thanks to LivingEntity for the wonderful quotes. Hope these quotes help.

"Although according to material vision His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada passed away from this material world on the last day of December 1936, I still consider his Divine Grace to be always present with me by his vani, his words. There are two ways of association by vani and by vapuh. Vani means words and vapuh means physical presence. Physical presence is sometimes appreciable and sometimes not, but Vani continues to exist eternally. Therefore, one must take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence" (CC, Antya 5 Conclusion) "Just like I am working, so my Guru Maharaja is there. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. Physically he may not be, but in every action he is there. To serve master's word is more important than to serve physically" (Room Conversation, Vrindavan 2/5/77) Much thanks to LivingEntity for the wonderful quotes. Yes indeed. Finally something we agree on. If Srila Prabhupada is your spiritual master or any future qualified acarya then you are also disciple of previous acaryas and ultimately Krishna Himself. What a beautiful thing to be part of.

I know you don't like it but Srila Prabhupada is my spiritual master. Why do you want to keep trying to steal him from me?

Be careful you will get labled as a Prabhuvadi or a personality cultist as if that equates you with a mayavadi or something. Sorry for the sarcasm.

no I am just rejecting the notion that you are putting forth that Prabhupada is somehow not qualified to be a spiritual guide anymore just because he has departed from material vision. Actually now he is a spiritual guide for all time. There is nothing that can knock him down from that platform.

Paramahamsa: "My question is, a pure devotee, when he comments on the Bhagavad-Gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with the commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?" Srila Prabhupada "Yes. You can associate with Krsna by reading Bhagavad-Gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty?" (Morning Walk, Paris 11/6/74) "There is nothing new to be said. Whatever I had to say, I have already said in my books. Now you must try to understand it and continue with your endeavours. Whether I am present or not does not matter." (Vrindavan, 17/5/77) "If I depart there is no cause for lamentation. I will always be with you through my books and orders. I will always remain with you in that way." (BTG 13:1-2, December 1977 "If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference between the spiritual masters instructions and the spiritual master himself. In the absence therefore, his words of direction should be pride of the disciple." (CC(1975 Ed) Adi 1.35)

Sounds like the mess is a result of the people after Prabhupada not following Prabhupada's instructions. No reason to blame Prabhupada for lack of accessibility on that. As you said reading his books but not following his instructions doesn not make much sense.

Srila Prabhupada is not out of reach for anyone. That is the cheating going on.

Christians do the same thing to Christ. They say Christ is out of reach and we cannot communicate with him. What is the use of prayer if you are not able to communicate with a higher intelligence. I just don't understand this sort of thinking but it appears that it is firmly rooted into the institution of Iskcon so I will continue to sing my praises for Srila Prabhupada and I suppose they will keep telling me I can't get any benefit from reading Srila Prabhupada's books.

Very well said and I completely agree with you about transcendent realization. That is why Christianity has ceased to contain my interest because most Christians seem like mechanical scholars with very little realization. When you read Srila Prabhupada's books with a submissive heart I believe you are rendering service to Krishna and Srila Prabhupada. The book Bhagavata and the person Bhagavata are identical. I guess its just a difference of opinion and it doesn't mean that both of us can't love Krishna does it?

I am just an ignorant Westerner, I really don't understand the whole initiation process and the Ritvik controversy. Sorry if I offended you or your guru I just have a lot of admiration for Srila Prabhupada. Seems like he was a really intelligent individual but I realize I am not worthy of being associated with him in anyway.

I don't quite understand how Srimad Bhagavatam could be considered Mayavadi philosophy? The quote I showed you were not my words they were Srila Prabhupada's words.

Alright, that answer makes sense to me. Thanks for being a gentleman. At least you are not going to eat me for breakfast. LOL

So the saying should be changed to "Just get initiated and be happy"? instead of "Just chant and be happy"?

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 1 Chapter 2 text 18 "By regular attendence in classes on the Bhagavatam and by rendering service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact." Purport "Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhagavatas. There are two types of Bhagavatas, namely the book Bhagavata and the devotee Bhagavata. Both the Bhagavatas are competent remedies, and both or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. A devotee Bhagavata is as good as the book Bhagavata because the devotee Bhagavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhagavata and the book Bhagavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhagavatas. Bhagavata book and person are identical." I am not trying to be argumentative but if you read the book Bhagavata and follow the instructions of the Book Bhagavata (which I do not do perfectly so obviously I am a hypocrite) in essence aren't your rendering service to Srila Prabhupada. You can't seperate the two if you sincerely follow the instructions. The supersoul in my heart has lead me to my pure devotee and he is Srila Prabhupada. I mean no disrespect to any other pure devotee on the Earth at this time but I am sticking with Prabhupada.

As far as I am concerned Srila Prabhupada is a living guru.

Now that Srila Prabhupada has departed to the spiritual world?

What exactly do you mean by initiated? I have read most of Prabhupada's books and I have no doubt he is a bonafide representative of God but the overwhelming sentiment I get from his books are is that the most important thing is to chant Hare Krishna and at the time of death if you remember the Lord's name you will be taken to the Lords association. Seems pretty simple to me I really don't understand all this initiation business sorry not trying to offend or anything.

You can always hope the 3 year old is like Prahlada Maharaja and has a spontaneous transcendental education and instantly realizes the relationship between the living entities and the Lord.

Yep, you are exactly right. The world right now is full of Ajamila's including myself so this verse is especially relevant in the Kali-yuga and is truly inspirational and offers hope to such fallen people as myself.

If everything happens is the will of Krishna is it bad to be detached from the world altogether. Because the older I get the less worried I am about anything and I think my heart might be a lump of coal like you say too but for me I don't feel like its a bad thing I feel like I am surrendering more and more and becoming less concerned about the external world. I realize a pure devotee is in anxiety for the conditioned souls and to be honest I really don't worry that much about anything anymore so I am not even close to being pure but it still feels good to be free of anxiety.

There's all sorts of anti-Christs running around. I like to refer to them as Satan Smith's.

Actually the answer to all of human knowledge is so simple that it is almost too ridiculous for most people to realize. Human beings are busily engaged in mating and defending. Just kidding I don't know if that is the answer to all human knowledge or not but I do know some psychologists go to college for 4 years or more and don't seem to see that most of human behavior can be described as mating and defending.

Yep, you are exactly right. I don't think my father will ever chant the name of Krishna he is completely disinterested in Krishna but I think there is a fair chance that he will chant the name of Christ or at least call out to Christ so if he does that he will go to Christ a loka or whatever it is called. Either way he will be alright.