cbrahma

What are you on about now? It's a 'play' about Vamana deva. The kid is 'acting' a part in a play. That boy is just a Gurukuli student

 

Do you understand now?

Isn't it obvious? But then again there's a lot of older 'boys' acting like gurus.

The five year old great Vaishnava savour of the world. Did you notice his Brahman thread and sannyas clothing?

 

It's pretty obvious who it is, think about it, I know?

Right that's all it takes to be guru.

Seeing nothing as apart from my own Self "— this was Amma's vision, that everything in creation was part of Her own Self. At that time the Divine Mother also imparted to Her a mission— to ask the people to fulfil their human birth through the message "Oh man, merge in your Self!"

http://www.amritapuri.org/vision/vision.php

 

This sounds suspiciously like impersonal moksa, merging into the brahmajyoti.

It is unclear what is meant by 'fulfil their human birth'.

The goal of human life is to question its purpose and to realize 'aham brahmasmi' (I am spirit). Perhaps that is what she is saying. I am spirit, however, doesn't mean I am the Divine Spirit, One and the Same - what she calls the Self.

But she may be a true self-realized jnani - which is actually an advanced state - far more than being a mudane karmi.

Shouldn't we be weaning ourselves off of oil?

She is Amma, sometimes know as Universal Mother, or Durga . Her 'husband' is Sri Bhagavan who claims he is an avatar - a Visnu-tattva avatar.

Of course this is fraudulent. Religion without philosophy, in fact religion without truth is sentimentality.

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lol...a kitchen is a real litmus test hey. Kitchen work is heavy duty work lol. Pressure for sure!

 

I was in a temple kitchen a few months back - the manager was relaxed and easy. It was nice cbrahma, I was really enjoying it until I cut my finger. I have a virus in my blood, so that was a bummer. I would love to serve in a kitchen - instead of knockin on heavens door.

Well if the managers were new immature disciples I would understand it, but the senior disciples were mean mean mean, not just to me but to each other. Puffed up and mean.

lol, yes sir he did! Lucky they didn't burn him (they would have a few hundred years earlier)

 

His vision is progressive, and gives abundant life - a great hope for the future. Tradition may often try to stop such forward movement. We must remember he wrote it around 30-40 years before the Vatican 2 council.

He's still on the Vatican's Index Librorum Prohibitorum. I guess that's all we need - another big book bonfire. Farenheit 451

There is a wonderful book which I strongly recommend reading. I feel it is a wonderful vision of christianity.

 

Le Mileu Divin by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.

 

 

http://www.teilhardforbeginners.com/divinemilieau.html

 

"Living in God is like living in the air we breathe. God is the atmosphere, the environment, the divine milieu in which we spend our lives."

"At present, many of the cells of this Christ Body are unaware of their divine calling, unaware of how special they are in the eyes of God, and unconscious of the fact that they are already living their lives as part of this Cosmic Body. For Teilhard, this Cosmic Body is meant to become fully conscious of itself in every cell of its being in such a way that every cell is also conscious of the whole Body’s magnificent destiny. When this Christ Body realizes itself as the divine reality it has always been meant to be, that moment will be what Teilhard calls the Omega Point. (See Rev 1:8)"

http://www.teilhardforbeginners.com/

I've read it. He got in trouble with the Vatican of course.

Yep, I know. Many have used the temple as an excuse to run away from their fear of the material world. Any person fearing to explore the material world for the benefit of Humanity is still a coward.

 

Criticising the material world outside but not knowing that they themselves have become expounder of the Karmic way of living.

I had to listen to brahmana initiated disciples of Prabhupada hurl insults at each other while preparing prasadam for Rukmini-Dwarkadish. Really transcendental. Needless to say, I'm not impressed with the religious process of bhakti-marga, with its exclusive elite membership. A joke.

Yes, it is a lovely book for sure.

 

You know cbrahma, there are so many things to be despondent about when we are on our own ( we are by nature made for relations). In a way the dream of a open-society failed I feel. It has for me anyhow. My Iskcon dream is basically dead now. What to do? Pick up the bead bag a little each day, read some literature that inspires us...and for god's sake be grateful for what we do have.

 

Otherwise we will end up being bitter fruit, with no sweetness.

 

Once we know who we are (to some degree), we will care less what others think of us. Only the Lord truly knows our hearts cbrahma. Only if we could peel back all the layers that cover ourself, and only if we could allow that self to appear without fear...we may be quite surprised. It may be very gentle, very soft, and very simple and childlike in there! This world may not be ready for such beauty!

 

Didn't Srila Gurudeva say 'this world is not fit for gentleman'.

I can find friends. Material firiends. And there are my Christian godbrothers and godsisters who BTW are much friendlier and welcoming than any devotee who isn't on the sell.

The temple life also is very funny, they say that they are not Karmi, but in Substance they are some sort Karmis only.

 

There is no difference between the outside life and temple life. Some of them also fear of losing their place in the temple, if not working hard or making some mistakes... Just like Mr X fearing to get fired.

 

They don't pay much heed to Varna, but they are some sort of using it. Everything has its department and need to report also.

 

It is more like practicing a culture. But I won't deny its importance... but truly, there are things higher than that in the repertoire of Vaishnavism. Read the Gita well, you'll get the answer.

 

SP did whatever he could and also gave all the possibilities, according to our level of consciousness we'll chose our path to make further progress or reach directly Vaikunth after death.

I give you no argument here. If you want an incentive to live materiallly, live in a temple, especiallly associate with the 'brahmanas' in the Deity kitchen. I've never seen so much offensive high drama. It's really scary.

Well, it's too damned bad so many devotees don't see it as their life to encourage others to chant Hare Krishna. We've seen many signs here that you don't care much for what ISKCON folks say about so many things; why worry about what they say about this? To heck with 'em! Go for it! Srila Prabhupada's line was "Chant Hare Krishna, and your life will be sublime." Chant and be happy. Too many of your posts here sound like they come from an unhappy person, and now we know why. It doesn't have to be that way.

 

The key to spiritual progress is good association, devotees who are fixed in their practice, like minded, and affectionate. Do whatever you can to find such association, and don't worry about what anyone says.

 

Another tip, if I may: You may find that Tripruari Maharaja's book Siksatakam of Sri Caitanya encourages you in your chanting, too.

 

Be kind to yourself, dear friend.

I don't know where you get the impression that I'm sooo unhappy. Because I criticize ISKCON? That's standard practice on this forum. Association without envy, I have found to be next to impossible. I guess that's the real issue. So much attention to 'advancement' and diksa and all the religious accoutrements. It's too much really.

Like Babhru said. Just pick up your beads again bro. Krishna says in the Gita that this process is joyfully performed.

 

Stopping chanting when you have a taste for it is not humility it is boneheadedness.

 

I wish I had a taste right now to even think about giving up. I am miserable and can't chant much and you are happy and quit. WTF?

 

BTW cabrahma even the sahajiyas make advancement by chanting the Holy Name. No one should ever stop under any circumstances or for any reason.

 

Hare Krishna

I am told that to think you have attraction is sahajiya.

Oh, that makes a lot of sense! Take down your "Proceed With Caution" sign and get happy again, for cryin' out loud. I mean, who were you following when you chanted--the sahajiyas, or Srila Prabhupada? (Yeah, it's a rhetorical question.)

I would actually get up at 2:30 am and go to the LA Temple and attend the whole morning program and chant 12 rounds , 4 of which I would finish during the day. I was trying to follow SP. But when I get happy , it seems the ISKCON members get unhappy and start criticizing. I experienced this many times at differnt temples.

Stopped? Stopped what exactly, chanting or claiming to have ecstatic symptoms?

No I didn't have ecstatic symptoms. I just felt happier than I ever felt in my life. I stopped chanting.

It is the nature of the Hare Krsna mahä-mantra that anyone who chants it immediately develops his loving ecstasy for Krsna." Caitanya Caritamrta Adi 7.83)

This I have experienced but then there are sahajiyas who chant spontaneously , claiming to have ecstatic symptoms. I am concerned about this counterfeit and am not sure whether to maintain a chanting sadhana because I almost always experience sweetness. It is very unfortunate so I have stopped.

and you claim to have been around in those days??

 

'the pick' is street selling of all kinds of gadgets (records, hats ,stickers, flowers, etc) in the name of 'supporting the sankirtana mission'. It was a HUGE enterprise in NV and the official reason for their downfall (see the trademark and copyright infingement court case

I didn't live in New Vrndavan and I still don't get your point.

and you claim to have been around in those days??

 

'the pick' is street selling of all kinds of gadgets (records, hats ,stickers, flowers, etc) in the name of 'supporting the sankirtana mission'. It was a HUGE enterprise in NV and the official reason for their downfall (see the trademark and copyright infingement court case

I wasn't a big sankirtana devotee. But towards the end with Rameswara it wasn't called that. They went out under all disguises but nobody called it that.

only if you count bringing in millions of dollars per year from the pick as 'rural self-sustinance'

the 'pick'?

I have been working on practical application of varnashram principles for close to 30 years. I know what is practical and what is not. Have you ever tried to live off the land? How about actually producing a crop from that land?

 

For most devotees of your generation, varnasrama ideal is some happy hippie commune, miraculously able to feed the world from just a few acres and a small herd of milking cows... IMO they simply smoked too much reefer in their youth to think straight anymore...

New Vrndava was not a self-sustaining rural community?

Varnashram was never installed. They considered that within the temples there's only Vaikuntha, the spiritual world, devoid of any material impurity.

And because there's only pure transcendence in the temple no need for varnashram, something 2nd class. Meanwhile they have within the temples mainly paid personnel, temples being lend out for mundane Hindu ceremonies and all kind of gymanstic yoga, tinker/handicrafts lessons with costs. But still they speak of correct definitions. The definition is already there, given by Prabhupada, make the society KC in large scale. Since you became a Christian, even fighting people who use the word "congregation" not in context of Christianity, why even spent time with Vaishnavism?

I don't follow you. Vaisnavism may be inclusive of Christianity, but churchianity is not. The concept of a congregation is borne of clericism. I know that is defnitely not what Prabhupada intended. Without going into the details, varna-asrama is supposedly a universal principle for organizing material society quite unrelated to 'joining up' to a temple.

I don't personally support ISKCON in becoming a religion, but they are surely doing so with the support of many devotees. I'm proposing that we recognize Srila Prabhupada as the Sampradaya Acarya and do our utmost to focus on his spiritual movement, the Hare Krishna movement. Srila Prabhupada said many times that his sankirtana movement is not a church and should not be seen as such. In fact, the author himself quotes Jayapataka Swami as saying that ISKCON is going to turn out to be just like the Christian churches, which are empty. Of course, this is a prophecy that came to pass, ultimately due to lack of leadership and conviction.

Rocana dasa

 

Well this is a discussion board but you're presenting dogma type viewpoints, rather content for your private blog.

Prabhupada understood it only in that context that everything is in relation to his temples. If people couldnt make it to live a monastic lifestyle within a temple they should have a second chance to live outside and not get disconnected. Why you reject to call this outside, congregation? You lost me here.

In the West there are not many devotees left in ISKCON and hardly any schools left. That sort of solved ALL the problems, they got rid of almost everyone, but still teaching what is the truth.

I'm talking philosophy and you're talking PC politics.

It is what it is. There is nothing dogmatic about citing the facts and correct definitions. It is the GBC which is dogmatic. ISKCON doesn't have to mimic churchianity to be effective. They can delude themselves that Hindu congregation are somehow devotees but that is not the case. ISKCON's rate of making devotees is so meagre compared to the pre-congregational days.

Yep, that's the true mission of everyone. And there should not be any excuse of not doing it.

 

But one should preach to the extent the listenener can understand, more than than can deteriorate things. Misunderstanding and misterpretation crops up and any action taken by such person, becomes more harmful.

My understanding is that one preaches and lets Caitya guru in the heart do the rest.

But many dies without hearing his advice. But I'm happy about the Bhagvata Doctrine, chances for perfection are always given.

 

Naturally, Lord chaitanya is for everyone, but not everyone can understand his teachings, that's why options are always given. Even in the Gita, Krishna gave a lot of options to Arjuna, saying if you cannot follow this, do that. But Arjuna was a fine student.

But that is what the bhakta should do -preach so that everybody can become familiar. Yes?