Redsox

lol funny, whatever!! There is a big IF in all your statements. If you carry on with bhakti Yoga, If you see God, If he walks, If he plays, If that isn't your own imagination, If there is another life, If peace corps is just a material action meant to be nothing more than a distraction. Etc... The entire philosophy of Bhakti is rooted in a big IF. Some say there are accounts of people reaching their final destination, but such accounts are wholly subjective. What is Objective under the sun? This life, this is all your have in front of you.

And fools like this baba prey on one's insecurities, saying that He offers all answers to the universe's existence, I'll bet that he too claims to come from an ancient sampradaya that continues down upto now in India LOL . Or he claims to be kalki himself LOL

You are right, and its probably because I desire a better existence, even when I know there isn't any. It is like the desire of a child who craves for a toy , and to control it, the parents tell him to wait for Santa. Its like that, because of restlessness , not realizing that this material existence is just characterized by suffering, I keep coming back to this , thinking somehow it will be different or thinking that i understood it better this time around. Instead of facing my own problems head on, I ignore them using these books while ignoring the contradictions within them time and again. Like a little kid who believes santa lives in the north pole, and he brings you toys for christmas, he doesn't realize that there is no such creature.

I am sorry if I came across as offensive to vaishnavas- I don't mean to agitate your belief system at all, do what you want, as i have said before, this is a simple rant, lol. but yes I am giving up faith in God completely. I see no point in it anymore. Anyway I think i am done now. c ya audarya fellowship, will be back when I feel like it again.

lol , that was funny. I guess the truth is always funnier and harder to accept than a fairy tale. because we are afraid , we are afraid of what might be the possibility if it was other way around, so we create our safe zones. we think about so many imaginary things, we forget what is right in front of us. Our life! lol, there was no God in it before, there is no God now, there won't be any God acting in my life in the future. God was pure imagination and my correlation to a mass hysteria until now. I know , its tough to accept it, but its the truth. Thats why it was so tough to hang on to the thought of God, because it is just a thought! in essence, it is impermanent, like all thoughts, it was delusional to get attached to one thought considering it to be "divine" while rejecting other thoughts and thinking that they are not divine. The thoughts of God are a safety net to escape our own responsibilities in life. Lets say you need to lose weight, what will an average religious person do? pray to krishna? "I need to lose weight krishna so that i won't get diabetes, please give me strength for it , please please please". It is foolish really, if someone wants to lose weight, they can just go the gym and excercise LOL . Just go do it! why pray? . People are fearful about their existence, as they get old, they fear of what is going to happen to them as death approaches. Their bodies degenerate, and they lose strength, but their clinging to life and desire to exist is such that they have to have a way to think that they will exist after this life, hence they hold on to a permanent existence, when there is no such thing. Some people cling to God because they can't find Jobs, lol instead of trying harder, they pray LOL what will that accomplish? Nothing. There are many who claim that they know instances where prayer saved lives , prayer healed them, just watch the 700 club, but the funny thing is I know and have seen many religious people pray , pray and pray and they meet their demise when the time comes, it is inevitable. There are probably a million instances where prayer didn't help while there are probably a few thousand where prayer did. Is this the way an all compassionate God who thinks everyone is his friend acts? If God exists, why listen to a few prayers while ignoring others? The hindus say it is "karma". Agreed, if it is "good karma" that saves these few thousand people and if it is "bad karma" that kills the other million then where does God come into the picture? LOL Not here. If it wasn't karma and God does really exist then all the devotees should be millionares right now. Ha! you don't need God to have high morals in life, to save animals and to be a good person. You need God however to create divisions to create the division between a brahmin and a sudra, or to create a division between a muslim and a christian so they both fight and die. LOL Terrible really, just terrible. Before yesterday really, I thought alot about the idea of "Who am I" just like jnanis do. What a waste of time! lol , why does it matter who you are? You are here aren't you? lol who cares if it was Kishoradayaki vishnu or "the mind of brahman" or God's word that created this world? How does that change our lives now? We are here, we grow old and later we die. lol its as simple as that, so why not do something good for the society before dying? ha!

LOL Oh you got me, I am shishupal, you know what? I am the dreaded mayavadi, the wolf in the pack of sheep, I am here to serve as an example to show you all good devotees what will happen when you don't follow krishna LOL. Now I am scared , because if I don't believe in krishna he will whoop my behind LOL . Sorry I don't want to be an imaginary God's punching bag anymore. So if you will excuse me. Good day to you and your imaginary beliefs.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING ON BABBLING ABOUT NOW? THE SELF? LOL LOL LOL. According to vaishnavism, KRISHNA CAN WHOOP YOUR SELF'S BEHIND anyday. THATS RIGHT, HE WILL BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF YOU LIKE AN ABUSIVE HUSBAND. LOL Anyway, I don't want to discuss this shit anymore, I just wanted to tell you that if you come to this site, leave all your ideas about the Self, they will tell you that any idea of a self is probably made up by people who will "WRITE ANYTHING" or "TWIST ANY THING WRITTEN IN SANSKRIT TO FIT THEIR NEEDS". And they will also tell you to believe in a heaven where YOU ROAM AROUND LIKE A LITTLE GIRL WHO IS HIGH ON WEED and "SERVE KRISHNA". OH YEA THIS IS WHAT VEDAS WERE SAYING ALL ALONG, DUH! I CAN"T BELIEVE THOSE CRAZY ADVAITISTS MISSED THIS PART!. AND KRISHNA COMES TO THIS PLANET every few years TO SHOW OFF HIS HAREM. Thanks alot you guys. ( EDIT: OK , MY GRUDGE IS AGAINST YOUR GOD AND NOT TOWARD YOU, ALL THE VAISHNAVA PEOPLE ARE GOOD PEOPLE BUT THEY WORSHIP A SPOILED WOMANIZING NON EXISTENT GOD) PS: YES THIS IS A VAISHNAVA APARADHA AND I AM HAPPY TO DO IT, WAITING FOR THAT BOLT OF LIGHTNING, ANY MINUTE NOW! LOL LOL LOL KRISHNA AS A PARENT: KID: HEY MOMMY. KRISHNA:..... KID: HEY MOMMY CAN I GET A HUG? KRISHNA: .... KID: HEY MOMMY, DO YOU LOVE ME? KRISHNA: .... KID: MOMMY MOMMY MOMMY KRISHNA: .... KID: MOMMY IF YOU LOVE ME SAY SOMETHING. KRISHNA: .... KID: MOMMY IF YOU LOVE ME, THEN DON'T SAY ANYTHING, AcT LIKE YOU DON't EXIST. KRISHNA: .... KID: YAY I KNEW IT, MOMMY LOVES ME. HEY MOMMY, DON'T SAY ANYTHING IF YOU THINK I WILL GO TO HEAVEN AND THOSE CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS AND JEWS AND ALL THOSE FREAKY ATHIESTS WON'T. KRISHNA: ..... KID:~YAY~ , I KNEW IT! I AM GOING TO HEAVEN! PEACE!

WARNING: THIS IS A RANT OF AN EXTREMELY DISILLUSIONED SEEKER OF GOD, READ IT AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION. Have you prayed for krishna's mercy lately? I have, every day! like a little kid praying to santa clause to show up with a new christmas toy, I prayed to krishna like a child for him to even atleast show up in my dreams!!! I was willing to believe in that guy that we all call God even if he atleast managed to SHOWED UP IN MY DREAMS! Let me tell you! I have given up. I have GIVEN UP any hope of finding God , EVER!, I am not even sure whether God cares or if He even exists! It seems like it, because there are only two possiblities now: ready? 1) If God exists, He could easily take us out of samsara, unless he is a weakling (ofcourse he isn't a weakling because we can go on and on bull shitting about how he omnipotent). But He doesn't take us out of samsara, why? because he is like Santa Clause for us adults! he doesn't EXIST! If he does exist, why doesn't he SHOW UP? If you say he does show up, then let me ask why has to die?! Let me tell you, all those people Krishna, Rama, Chaitanya everyone! they were all BORN and they all DIED in their due time! LET ME TELL YOU ACCORDING TO SHIVITE PHILOSOPHY, Krishna is a guy named Narayan Rishi and Arjun is another guy named Nara Rishi , They are both brothers, who prayed to shiva in their past lives and shiva being all powerful God , made them who they are! into krishna and arjun! And Lets take a look at Vaishnav teaching now: According to Vaishanavas, no! shiva is just a servant to Krishna! it is really KRISHNA that comes to save mankind! and shiva is just taggling along as HANUMAN and everything. And according to ADVAITA PEOPLE : SHIVA AND VISHNU just ride the backseat while BRAHMAN really drives. SEE HOW DIFFERENT ALL OF THESE TEACHINGS ARE? WHAT IS THE TRUTH? WHERE IS THE REAL TRUTH? LET ME ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION, HOW COME THE CHRISTIAN GOD ONLY DOES ALL HIS MAGIC TRICKS IN MIDDLE EAST AND NOT IN INDIA OR CHINA , AND HOW COME KRISHNA AND RAMA AND ALL AVATARS OF VISHNU ONLY BORN IN INDIA????? OK forget all these arguments, Lets assume KRISHNA was really THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, THEN HOW COME KRISHNA WAS SO INVOLVED IN POLITICS OF THAT ERA (READ MAHABHARAT) For SOME BULLSHIT FIGHT OVER A PIECE OF LAND NOT LARGER THAN RHODE ISLAND AND NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN ANY WARS EVER SINCE THAT STUPID 18 day war???? Same deal with the christian biblical God, HOW COME he cared for Jews who were slaves in EGYPT but didn't care when COUNTLESS OF JEWS WERE MASSACRED IN THE HOLOCAUST?! LET ME TELL YOU WHY! GOD IS SANTA! EXCEPT HE IS NOT THAT JOLLY! AND HE DOESN't EXIST! 2) OK Lets forget the entire argument made above, and lets assume GOD does exist, then probably he JUST DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT US! He probably doesn't care about us! If he does care, if he is *really* my best friend, Tell me why NEVER SHOWS UP OR WHY HE NEVER ACTS DIRECTLY IN ONE'S LIFE?, and NO I am not talking about the cryptic way we think "Oh wait, this happened to me, another human being helped me, or consoled me, oh its because of God" and I am certainly not talking about the time when you thought, "Oh this must be a sign from God" , NO! what I am asking is, when did God ever show up at your door to give you alteast a measely hug? Let me tell you, NEVER! you know why? HE DOESN't CARE! HE doesn't give a shit about our existence! He doesn't give a shit. IT DOESN"T MATTER HOW THIS WORLD WAS CREATED, IT CHANGES NOTHING IN OUR LIVES IF THIS WORLD EVOLVED OR IF IT WAS CREATED IN 6 DAYS,5 days whatever! IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU ANY PEACE NOR WILL IT CHANGE YOUR LIFE IN ANY WAY NOW. It doesn't matter AT ALL if KRISHNA IS GOD, OR JESUS's GOD IS GOD or ALLAH, ALL this BULLSHIT FIGHTING AND DIVISIONS IS BECAUSE OF THIS , MY SANTA IS BETTER THAN YOURS ATTITUDE! THERE IS NO GOD WHO CARES ABOUT OUR BULLSHIT LIVES, WE ARE WHAT WE MAKE OF OURSELVES IN THIS LIFE AND THE NEXT, if THERE IS ANOTHER LIFE After this ONE. ALL THIS ENTIRE WORLD SEEMS TO CHANGE SO QUICKLY, every day every minute, every second, All of this to remain constant or in control of a supreme being is BULLSHIT. SIGH, I CAN't BELIEVE I WASTED ALL THIS TIME IN MY LIFE LOOKING AND SEARCHING FOR GOD WHEN I COULD HAVE USED IT FOR BETTER PURPOSES, LIKE HELPING THOSE POOR KIDS IN INDIA OR JOINING THE PEACE CORPS TO DO MY BEST TO RELIEVE PEOPLE OF THEIR SUFFERING!. PEOPLE LIKE JNDAS ( I mention him here because he is this forum's moderator and probably well known) ARE BETTER THAN ANY SWAMI WHO SITS ON HIS BUTT ALL DAY CHANTING HARE KRISHNA. IT IS BETTER TO BE THERE FOR EACH OTHER LIKE HUMAN BEINGS THAN TO SEARCH FOR ANY GOD. THE FACT IS, WE DON'T NEED A GOD, WE NEED COMPASSION FOR OUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS AND UNDERSTANDING THAT WE ALL ARE RESTLESS AND WE SUFFER. THE WORLD IS JUST SUFFERING, SOME SUFFER BECAUSE OF MENTAL PROBLEMS, BUT ALOT OF PEOPLE SUFFER BECAUSE THEY ARE STARVING, THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE FOOD! , BEING THERE FOR EACH OTHER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY GOD OR SERVICE TO GOD AND ALL THAT BULLSHIT. THANKS FOR READING MY RANT, THIS IS ALSO MY LAST POST PROBABLY HERE AND PROBABLY MY LAST SEARCH FOR GOD EVER WITH ANY RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION AROUND THE WORLD. IN THE FUTURE, I WILL PROBABLY BE CHANGING MY PROFESSIONAL INTERESTS TO SERVE AN ATHEISTIC HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATION LIKE PEACE CORPS OR RED CROSS IN THE FUTURE. PEACE!

like this one? lol

Our bodies only have life for only 36500 days max. And we are restless most of the time. sigh...

thats horrible. Everyone is a servant of krishna how can you even say "Impersonalism is the proverbial wolf" ? are you sure with that kind of an attitude , we aren't leading ourselves away from God? I mean, it is one thing to suggest that advaita is not your thing and move on, it is entirely another matter to say that advaita is the devil incarnate. How can we see with equal vision when we have distinctions such as these? See, this is why I came to the conclusion that vaishnava teachings are contradictory and divisive, sorry if that was offensive.

So this "I am ______" is the trap?

Yea, I like that too. I think the important thing here is remembering krishna, some people do it by chanting, others by reading stories. I think it differs from person to person and the state of mind

Thank you for your honest and sincere replies, ---, Suchandra, Beggar, Theist, Matarisvan, Nitai Das, Shvu.

The better question would be, if you were brahman before and are brahman now, what need is there for any seeking or liberation? aren't you allowing yourself to experience duality by doing so? The answer for that too is similar to what krishna consciousness says on the fall of the jiva->self forgetfulness. haha neither are you listening!. Granted you are more experienced than I am in this mode of bhakti, I will let you be. I wasn't necessarily trying to get preached to, it is only a discussion and at the end of it, we all hope we learn something.

His Holiness Sri Tridandi Chinna Jeeyar Swamiji (I think this guy is a big Vaishnava in South India): "Adi Shankaracharya who drank the ocean of knowledge, as easily as one sips the water from the palm of one's hand, sang in his later years, Hymns to develop devotion, it is enough to show that jnana and bhakti are one , and the same." Adi Shankaracharya: "Bhaja Govindam! Bhaja Govindam! Moodamate!" Translation: Worship Govinda! worship govinda! you fool!. Adi Shankaracharya's Bhaja Govindam Stanza 27: geyaM giitaa naama sahasraM dhyeyaM shriipati ruupamajasram.h . neyaM sajjana saNge chittaM deyaM diinajanaaya cha vittam.h Translation: Regularly recite from the Gita, meditate on Vishnu [thro' Vishnu sahasranama] in your heart, and chant His thousand glories. Take delight to be with the noble and the holy. Distribute your wealth in charity to the poor and the needy.

Not really. There is a saying in the Rig veda: Ekam Sat Viprah Bahudah Vadanti" . Truth is one, but sages refer to it differently. Did you know that there are two Dental degrees in united states? DDS and DMD. One is the doctor of dental surgery, another is Doctor of dental medicine. They are the same according to the way they practice. There are also two medical degrees for physicians, MD and DO. One is doctor of Allopathic medicine, another is doctor of Osteopathic medicine. Both have the same practices pertaining to medicine, they give the same medications, but their approach to learning and philosophy of medicine is different, but for a patient who is visiting them, he won't know the difference. In the sense that they are all different perspectives of the same thing. The distinction of bhakti and advaita on a very high level is the not there and it is similar to the analogies given above, in my opinion.

Yes I know they keep repeating what you are saying here, but Honestly, I still don't see any difference. Saying "Krishna" is one of the manifestations of that supreme diety, or saying krishna is that supreme diety who manifests everywhere. In both cases, we are recognizing the supreme diety. We can't say they are not seeing the same krishna as we are because obviously we don't know what they see, we only think we know based on their descriptions ("Impersonal brahman" etc), we haven't really gone up that level of realization. Therefore, The questions that inquire into the nature of this supreme diety: "Is brahman supreme and krishna another manifestation of that brahman or brahman another manifestation of Krishna?", all seem to be based in our own half knowledge and are the results of bewilderment caused by such half knowledge. In my opinion, it is like those people who are asking (in the beggar's article) "How come if Mahaprabhu is here, your guru is somewhere else?" IF these questions aren't based on our own half knowledge and our puny little jiva intelligence that gets bewildered every single time it thinks or tries to figure out that krishna, then how is it so that those who are self realized like Suka Deva Goswami or Vashista never get confused like we do? They know exactly what they are doing no matter what their supposed path - Jnana or Bhakti. I think they know that what they are doing and where they are going is that same Goloka,.

If two people have schizophrenia and they "see" the same illusions. Then lets say they are both stranded in the middle of an ocean, they keep seeing things in water, then are those things illusions or are they reality? In your earlier example with the book, you confirm whether it is an illusion or not with another person, and by doing so you claim that your book on the table is not an illusion. Then, lets say both of you are just seeing the same person when the lights are off... and you being in India your electricity is cut off, then does that make the illusion of the person- an objective truth?

Internal? external? all the same! From Beggar's quotes: "Why your Guru Maharaja is not here by His side if He is Mahaprabhu Himself?” They replied, “He is also at the side of Mahaprabhu in his heart.” Vashista from Yoga Vashista: Vashista said, " O Rama, when thus truth has been seen in the heart, then this very world becomes an abode of bliss. Such a person has nothing to acquire, or anything to shun. He is untainted by the defects of life, untouched by its sorrow. O Rama, if you want to free yourself from the sorrow of samsara, receive wholesome instructions from sages like me and be free" . I knew it! its the same thing, the relationship between krishna and bhakta is the same realization that advaitans have in their quest of the "truth" . Their truth is nothing different from yours. Those who don't understand advaita vedanta maybe deluded and think its different, I don't think it is. What do you think?

Theist, honestly, i was asking because I don't see a difference between advaita and vaishnava realization, don't you think i could answer this question myself if I knew there was a difference? I was asking the question because I don't know the difference.

sorry can't attend, I got an appointment with Krishna sometime in the next million births.

thanks, I appreciate your kind comments.

Realizing that krishna exists everywhere in multitude of forms, actions, beings and seeing that Krishna himself is all these beings + acting through such beings, is this advaita? or is this krishna consciousness? Reason for asking: Vaishnavas say vishnu made this universe like kshoradayaki vishnu... etc. etc.etc. Advaitans say it is all brahman, made from brahman, by brahman. So, which one is it? is the realization vaishnavism or advaitan realization?

Namaste I have recently come across an excellent scripture called yoga vashista, I think it is a dialogue between vashista and rama, its a huge scripture but I was wondering if anyone has read it , it is very thought provoking though .