ksbh

Kula pr ... why were you kicked out of the temple?

I wore kaupins for several years after moving out (or actually after getting kicked out) of the temple. Only after getting married I gradually gave them up. I liked these things but I always carried a roll of my own tp and used water only afterwards...

Mahaprabhu's movement is not some mundane off the street carnival that someone can shame with his deeds.

All that the actions of some deviants does is provide fodder to the doomsayers (spelling?). It does nothing to slow down the movement and even if it does, it's very temporary. It's predicted that this movement will last 10,000 years and you bet it will, no matter what.

He was certainly tried and convicted in a court of law for very serious crimes, thus he is a convicted felon and a criminal. Yes, people fall in love even with serial killers - but what on earth does it prove? Guys like him shamed Mahaprabhu's movement for decades and made us a laughing stock of society at large. They (personally or through their minions) inflicted untold amount of pain on hundreds of devotees. These are the facts, and mentioning facts has nothing to do with humility.

Tell me about it!

I envy all those devotees that live close to Govinda restaurants. I received a call from a devotee buddy of mine a few weeks ago. He called to tell me he was on his way to Govinda's with his family to enjoy their Mexican special! Needless to say, I burned with envy because all I can do is drive by the local 'Chipotle' helplessly

Ah, if only each and every person could be swept up in Mahaprabhu's wave of Divine Love!! Then all restaurants would serve only food in the mode of goodness!

 

Ok prabhu, then please continue eating out but just don't tell anyone :)

I tend to be *too* forthcoming in these regards. However, Gauravani-ji gives me a moment to pause and reflect.

 

I certainly don't wish to bring any dishonor to Srila Gurudev, who is so merciful to even fallen souls such as myself, and I wouldn't want anybody to follow my fallen example.

 

I've already admitted on these forums, though, to breaking 3 of the 4 regulative principles after Hari Nama initiation (though I had a run of six good months after being given the Holy Name and beads). As I've mentioned elsewhere, currently I'm hoping to rid myself of some long-standing bad habits in hopes of receiving Gayatri Mantra when Gurudev comes to visit California.

 

I'm certainly not proud of my faults, and, yet, I don't want to dwell on them and beat myself up. I have full faith that, if I strive to make some progress in sadhana, by the mercy of Guru and Gauranga, my bad habits will gradually lose their hold on me.

I agree, prabhu. Lord Caitanya's mercy is incomparable. I was told that the qualification to get His mercy is to be among the most fallen

Actually you have just described the qualities of KALI-YUGA, if Lord Caitanya can save all the above, then wouldn't that prove He is truly the deliver of the most fallen?

 

I believe no-one is too fallen because ultimately everyone is a devotee. Only a fool would say (as one so called sanyasi said recently in a class in Melbourne) "one can never attain the causeless mercy of LORD CAITANYA because they are too fallen because of exploitation" To the contrary, such fallen sruggling devotees are qualified for Lord Caitanya's mercy more than what you can ever imagine.

 

Narottama dasa Thakura prays to Lord Caitanya, "My dear Lord, please be merciful to me, because who can be more merciful than Your Lordship within these three worlds?

Thank you prabhu. Yes, he is a truly exalted Vaisnava and has inspired scores of people to take to Krishna Consciousness. I agree with you, his disciples are indeed most fortunate.

Ksbh, I copied the sanskrit from a 1983 book called Bhagavatpada Vani issued for his September 3rd vyasa-puja celebration. I spent some time with him in Toronto in that era. He was a very sincere and nurturing Prabhupada disciple. His disciples are most fortunate.

That is a beautiful prayer gHari prabhu. Did you write it or someone else?

Please Lord Krsna, Srila Bhagavatpada must remain with us much longer than this. I need him. We need him.

 

 

 

<CENTER>

nama om viSNu-pAdAya kRSNa-preSThAya bhUtale

srimate gopAl kRSNa goswAmin iti nAmine

 

"I offer my respectful obeisances unto His Divine Grace GopAl KRSNa GoswAmi BhAgavatpAda who is very dear to Lord KRSNa having taken shelter at His Lotus Feet."

 

prabhupAdasya sAhityam yah prakAsya vitiryacA

pracAram kRtavAn sAdhu bhAgavatpAdya te namaH

 

"I offer my respectful obeisances unto him, His Divine Grace Srila BhAgavatpAda, who is publishing and distributing literature of Srila PrabhupAda and is engaged in excellent preaching activities."

</CENTER>

 

Dear Srila Gopal Krsna Goswami Maharaja, Bhagavatpada,

 

 

In 1975 you concluded your words of sincere praise for your master in the following way. May you also grant us your extended kindness as you requested of Srila Prabhupada then:

 

[...] "You have established this ISKCON institution to spread Lord Caitanya's teachings to the entire world. My only prayer to the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna, Lord Sri Caitanya and your Guru Maharaja is that you may stay with us for a long time on this planet, so you can continue to guide your fallen children, who now number in the thousands".

 

 

 

Too fallen is when you do one of the following (I'm sure there are more)-

1. Kill a brahmana

2. Eat cows flesh

3. Have sex with another man's wife.

It may be a personal question, but has anyone here broken any of the 4 regulative principles after initiation?

Also, onions and garlic consumption isn't a violation of the 4 regs, IMO. Because it says 'no meat eating' and onions/lic are certainly not meat! So Murali Mohan pr, there's hope yet but make sure the rice you eat in mexican restaurants doesn't contain animal broth

I agree. Sorry for any offences prabhu.

- Deborah Pitts

originally from Fortworth, Texas

You don't know anything about me. That's your speculation. I am simply responding to boasting about past accomplishments as somehow a qualification for present judgments of how things are. FYI , mine are the more mudane achievements which I manage to carry out daily - like the full morning program, sixteen rounds, the 4 regulative priniciples, prasadam , hari-nama and other sevas.

The answers to all the questions you are asking are in the Vedic scriptures. Nothing needs to be speculated about.

- Deborah Pitts

Fortworth, Texas

Ok, bare with me on this as I havent read many shastras in my time...

 

I want to know, When time began and Bhrama created this earth, where was it written that Krishna was the ultimate supreme?

 

Again, who was Vishnu at the time? not the supreme?

if the same, why different names for the same being?

 

Why followers of Buddha belive Buddha as supreme?

 

What proof do you have that the superbeings you are reffering to are the superbeings before they came down and not ordinary persons who had books written for them after they came?

 

I require answer for these please.

But for the 'notalgic achievements' & sacrifices of folks like Guruvani pr, guys like you and I would have no clue about Krishna Consciousness.

Rather than belittle another devotees achivements so you can continue your fault finding crap, you should develop a little gratitude. It'll help you make progress, no seriously it will!

Credentials noted. The investment at this point, Maharaja, is at most nostalgia.

150,000 Bhagavad Gitas! That is staggering! And 200,000 dollars back in those days was HUGE, it is very big money in todays times as well. Please accept my humble obeisances at your feet, prabhu. It is no small sacrifice you have made. It is a giant contribution.

I only distributed 150,000 Bhagavad-gitas and donated my heirship (200,000 dollar) to the GBC this is of course nothing and an impudence even to mention, sorry, you're so right.

It's very clear now. Thanks.

- Deborah

I just want to clear to all who I am

Prabhu ... Nobody appoints Diksa gurus.

You're so right prabhu, simply on strength of limited observation who would ever dare to do such a thing? Although, as you bring in anumana, evidence by hypothesis and brush aside Prabhupada's words - all over Europe, all the ISKCON gurus since 1977 one by one, fell down. At least 6000 ex-disciples left ISKCON. Austria, all ISKCON temples closed since 1998. No more Sankirtan vans with books on Europe's roads. If you call plain facts, "discrediting", what you clearly do, one rather would suggest that a learned person like you means the discrediting of being appointed in 1980 by Tamal Krishna Goswami and Hansadutta prabhu who both declared to the assembled devotees including Jayadvaita Swami, that Srila Prabhupada had never desginated/appointed any diksha-gurus. This was at Nrsinghananda's hideout in Topanga California. Some of the others have admitted this too, no appointment/order by Prabhupada ever given, so where is your claim that there are any selected diksha-gurus after 1977, ordered by Prabhupada? And if the first ones were never ordered to function as diksha-gurus, how are any of the contemporary diksha-gurus ordered by Prabhupada?

I have little doubt that you're a Christian.

Fanatic or not, that will be revealed in due course.

I do not belong to any particular religion. I belong equally to all religions. Infact I am not religious but spiritual. <?xml:namespace prefix = o />

Religion is like a medium of instruction and spirituality is the curriculum. One can get doctorate degree through any medium and a doctorate will be respected by all over the world equally. Thus we should pursue to reach higher levels in spirituality in our own religion. Nobody need not change his religion. Change of religion is moving horizontally and moving to higher classes in spiritual curriculum is moving vertically, which is only called growth. Spirituality is beyond religion. Infact any true divine preacher never confined to any one particular religion, caste, creed etc, because all require God.

Did it have onions in it?

Wow, I guess I'm in big trouble.

 

There's an Ashram nearby. I could eat nothing but Krishna prasadam, but I don't.

 

Today, I had a burrito from Planet Fresh. It had pinto beans (no lard), brown rice and a whole wheat tortilla, but it was definitely not prepared by Krishna Bhaktas (as far as I know).

 

Of course, as I try to remind my kids: any nourishment we are receiving is coming by the grace of Guru and Krishna.

Which Church do you go to?

Dear ksbh;

 

The human incarnation comes in every generation but you are not coming in every generation. The rebirth as human being is almost impossible and completely impossible as per Christianity. In such case you are having only one chance to contact the human incarnation present in your generation. If you miss this, never again this luck comes. The next meeting with God is direct where He acts as judge. Therefore, there is no second coming of Jesus for you and you will meet God finally only.<?xml:namespace prefix = o />

In this way the second coming of Jesus at the end can be understood. But if you say that you cannot meet the human incarnation in your present generation, you are not having the opportunity even for once. In such case, why a particular generation in which God came in human form as Jesus was only blessed? They had the extra fortune and this means God is partial to that generation. Therefore, every person in every generation will have the equal chance of coming in contact with the human incarnation once in his or her life and the final contact with God in the energetic form as judge.

Therefore, the impartial God comes again and again for every generation (Yada Yada hi…..Gita) but you are not having the chance to meet the human incarnation again since you have no human rebirth. One may get the human rebirth in extreme exceptional situation and you should not depend on that because it involves high risk. The human birth, the urge for salvation and coming in contact with the human incarnation are the three real fortunes and the importance increases from left to right in the order. Therefore, simply having the human birth and having the urge by taking orange robe are not sufficient.

Unless you contact the Lord in human form and get the right knowledge for correct implementation, every thing is waste (Manushyatvam Mumukshatvam, Mahapurasha Samsrayah, Durlabham—Sankara). There is no quarrel if you say that the second coming of Jesus is only at the end because every one is having the equal chance. But if you say that I have to worship the past human incarnation only even in the present generation, then the equal opportunity is not given to Me when I am compared to the human being present in that generation in which Jesus came directly and clarified all the doubts face to face. I must have such equal privilege and here the quarrel comes with you since you deny the equal opportunity.

The second coming is final with respect to every human being but not with respect to God because in such case several human generations miss the chance of direct contact with God in human form except that one particular human generation. Even if you say that Jesus told that His second coming is only final, it is true with respect to every human being and not with respect to Him. You have misinterpreted this statement by extending it with reference to Jesus also because you want to exploit the people in the name of past Jesus and get personal fame and other facilities from the devotees. You are in no way different from the priests present in that time of Jesus.

Both of you do not admit the human form of Lord. Both of you keep the past which is invisible (invisible Jebhova or invisible Jesus) before the devotees and earn money and fame. The only difference between you both is that that priest got Jesus killed through the court and you cannot do that in the present time. The repulsion towards the human form before eyes is common to both the priests and devotees. But in the case priests there is an extra factor that they may lose fame and offerings from the devotees because they get benefited standing at the back ground of the invisible form of God or inert form of God.

In the case of devotees, this extra factor does not exist because they are prepared to sacrifice for God and they are not losing since they do not receive. Any Guru or Priest immediately resists human form of God based on these two factors since he fears that the human form may get the fame or their offerings. Thus, there is political, economical and social issue of psychology in this spiritual line. Attraction to fame and money associated with jealously and egoism is the main back ground and Lord Datta brings out the truth that is buried up to any depth. All the details of truth are known to the omniscient God. Veda says that the knowledge of God is always based on truth (Satyam Jnamam).

I wish I could carve too but I just go to the local art store when I need to buy something like that. I prefer wooden carvings over stone.

A true devotee of Lord carve for divine knowledge.

OK, good luck in your quest to serve the human form of God. He'll be back in the next Yuga. You better practise being patient, boy, coz you got a long wait ahead of you!

A statue cannot test your real essence in the sacrifice. When you offer food to a statue the sacrifice is only by words and by mind but when you sacrifice the food to the human incarnation the sacrifice is real because the human form of the Lord eats the food.

Dattaswami seems to just be copy/pasting from somehwere. I can't believe someone can type so many lines, punctuation marks and all, in such a short time!

The more I read your posts, the more I am disappointed. I expected much more from you considering that you have been in the movement for decades.

Let me explain .... of all the wonderful things ISKCON has done, post after post, all you seem to be able to see are the faults and fall downs. A far cry from the ideal character of a Vaisnava. So many nice things have happened in our movement but all you can see is Kirtanananda Swami and Harikesh Swami. By the way, don't mind me asking but what are your contributions to this movement in relation to what Kirtanananda Maharaja & Harikesh Swami achieved?

Ever read about Srila Prabhupada's comparison between a honey bee and the common fly? If you're just looking for sores and rotten stuff, it's all you're likely to find.

Sorry - misunderstood, you mean mature like your neighbour Harikes prabhu, well, guess you're right, I first have to grow up to reach that level of sophisticated expertise.

You're like always - right!

Guruvani prabhu's posts are coming down like big hammers today! Please continue prabhu. The clarity and force of your posts is amazing!

That is a bit of an exaggeration.

ISKCON gurus aren't really appointed or voted in.

 

The GBC simply gives official approval that the person can act as guru within ISKCON.

They know that only Krishna can appoint his representative.

The GBC simply gives some basic sanction that the person can act as guru within ISKCON due to having maintained a respectable position in ISKCON within the Vaishnava community.

 

The GBC doesn't appoint gurus.

They simply give sanction that the person can act as guru within ISKCON.

 

Srila Prabhupada already empowered and authorized his disciples to become guru.

The GBC simply has the responsibility to make sure that ISKCON gurus meet some minimum standards expected from one who acts a guru.

 

The GBC has openly encouraged all the disciples of Srila Prabhupada to become qualified gurus.

If a member of ISKCON meets GBC approval, then he can act as guru within ISKCON.

They don't appoint gurus.

They only approve whether the person can function as guru within ISKCON.

 

After all, it should not be a free-for-all in ISKCON.

 

The GBC has the responsiblity to oversee that ISKCON does not become a haven for bogus gurus who don't meet the minimum requirements expected from a guru.

 

The allegation that they rubber stamp gurus is actually a false allegation.

They don't rubberstamp gurus.

They simply make a judgement as to whether or not the aspiring guru meets to scrutiny of the Vaishnava committee.

 

It's not really a bad system to have a rather large body of Vaishnavas making sure that a "guru" meets some basic standards of behaviour.

 

Any divinely inspired guru has the option to be guru outside ISKCON if the GBC does not approve of his qualifications.

Who is this Baba?

If someone is under the evil doings of someone else, and the offerings have been given to SANGANI BABA, what needs to be done to permanently remove this work?

 

If the evil work has been reversed, will it be reversed permanently? Even is someone goes back to do the offerings to SANGANI BABA again.

 

This person has been suffering for years. Your advice is much needed.

I fail to understand what this has to do with Srila Prabhupada being the 'current link'.

I simply corrected you that Srila Prabhupada is the current link only to his followers, just as other bonafide Gurus are the current links to their followers. The bottomline being ... the 'current link' is not limited to one Guru. There are many.

Thanks ksbh for stopping by, this is of course what you also would tell Krishna Himself, dont stick Your nose into it? The Blessed Lord said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvan, and Vivasvan instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Iksvaku.

 

In this sloka Krishna refers to diksa-gurus but with huge gaps in between.

Prabhupada: "Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap."

 

In sum we shouldnt wonder too much if there's a gap after Prabhupada's physical departure - this kind of gap is not like a hole in a levee, as scarcy as it gets, it is rather something normal what Krishna Himself sees with serenity.