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Everything posted by bhagavad-gita

  1. Even after such close association and even after seeing 50 such fall downs including the one's of Suhotra, Satsvarupa, Harikesa, etc. you are still not able to figure out a saint from the swindlers. Compare the letters that each one of them wrote before finally letting the devotee world know they are no more gurus or sannyasis. This letter from Sacinandana Swami is no different. By the way, why should the letter that was written before May 10 of 2007 be published in December 2007? It will never ring any bell in the minds of the fanatic followers of such fake gurus and swamis!
  2. If the swami doesn't plan to run away like Harikesa, what need is there to write this letter in the first place? I am curious about the "retirement package" the swami has taken for the services he offered to ISKCON. "Sacinandana Swami runs away" would be a better title to this letter. Remember, Satsvarupa also "retired".
  3. Hare Krishna. Could anyone give word for word meaning for the following verse from hari bhakti sudhodaya: bhagavad-bhakti-hīnasya jātiḥ śāstraḿ japas tapaḥ aprāṇasyaiva dehasya maṇḍanaḿ loka-rañjanam "Without bhagavad-bhakti, without glorification of the Supreme Lord, whatever we have is simply a decoration of the dead body." (Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya 3.11)
  4. The current GBC chairman Bhanu Swami is also known for watching movies on borrowed DVDs. Probably he too would like to have a movie screened specially for the GBCs at 112 Darlinghurt Rd... !
  5. This thread is a load of rubbish that has arisen out of one's weakness of heart and an undetermined mind to follow the instructions as given by Srila Prabhupada. It's unfortunate that you are finding fault with Srila Prabhupada's purports rather than your inability to follow them. I wish this thread be removed right away.
  6. Do you know how much effort has gone into getting it? When the policy of the GBC is just cover-up, cover-up and only cover-up there is no way one can get it. Instead of giving these useless dialogues for the GBC at least try getting the present list of the 90 odd "gurus". If you can't post it here, then eat your own words.
  7. So finally the GBC rubber stapmed guru list from 1977 November isn't available to anyone? Shame on the GBC!
  8. Hare Krishna. Does any one have a list of gurus (GBC rubber stamped) in ISKCON? Also the complete list from 1977 including the one's who were added later and are no more in ISKCON as gurus. I tried googling, but got tired, unable to find any. Why does the GBC not let the list out? Even the current one's? May be the fall percentage will be out? May be they want to avoid being laughing stocks for any layman can ridicule them looking at the uselessness of rubber stamping the conditioned souls? I would like to know if anyone has any such list?
  9. It may be true that Lord Krishna gave a bull to Lord Shiva, but that is irrelevant to the current discussion. How does this solve the problem of "devotees" sending bulls to slaughter houses?
  10. Pl. don't speculate and water down the discussions. We are here to make a point and implement Srila Prabhupada's instructions on cow protection in a practical way. Pl. keep your sentiments away. The post from the administrator, Jahnava Nitai Prabhu says it all. He has quoted from the Bhagavatam on how Krishna herds the beautiful bulls in Vrindavana. That's enough to tell how Krishna takes care of the bulls. We don't need speculations here.
  11. Goshalas nowadays have become a cheating business. "Devotees" who run these goshalas, have become money-minded and their sole aim in running these goshalas is to make money and not really care for Krishna's cows. Goshala means taking care of cows, serving cows unconditionally even if they stop giving milk, even if they are a drain on our resources, etc. One important point: What about the bulls and bull calves? Many "devotees" sell them inorder not to incur a loss. If the goshala has a land to be ploughed then the bulls may be useful. If not, they just eat and eat for their whole life and the people who run the goshala are duty bound to feed them the whole life. So whatever money that is earned from selling cow's milk will be spent in feeding the bulls and bull calves. So debauchee-devotees sell the bull-calves to some "like-minded" people. In other words, the bull calves end up in slaughter houses indirectly. So ultimately it is impossible to run a goshala for business or profit. What ever money comes from cow's milk will be spent on feeding the bulls. That's why Krishna uses the word, "go-raksya" [bg. 18.44]. It means cow-protection. So by protecting cows one serves cows. There is no chance of making a business by goshalas unless and otherwise the bull-calves are sold or no cow gives birth to bull-calves (which is highly unlikely). These materialistic money minded theives in the guise of devotees, run the goshalas. No wonder some or even many of these goshalas are run by so-called followers of Srila Prabhupada. For example, the "devotees" at http://www.krsnamvande.org/goshala.html boast as follows: "We have the Goshala built with six cow houses each capable of accommodating 16 cows. But at the moment we have 25 female calves, 9 pregnant cows, 14 full grown mother cows, 5 milking cows. We plan to augment the stock of cows to one hundred and eight by Dec 2005." My question is: Where are the bulls and bull calves? Stolen? or sold to slaughter houses? The goshalas that show only cows, female calves, pregnant cows, mother cows, milking cows and no bulls or bull calves are cheating goshalas, fraud goshalas run by debauchee-devotees who make a show of dharma or protecting cows but run them to make money. Sincere devtoees should be beware of these debauchees.
  12. In the article, Prahladanandan Swami (PAS) mentions some points on why ISKCON may also fail like the Gaudiya Matha. Just replace gaudiya matha with ISKCON in the following conversation of Srila Prabhupada. Why this Gaudiya Matha failed? Because they tried to become more than guru. He, before passing away, he gave all direction and never said that 'This man should be the next acarya.’ But these people, just after his passing away they began to fight, who shall be acarya. That is the failure. They never thought, 'Why Guru Maharaja gave us instruction so many things, why he did not say that this man should be acarya?’ They wanted to create artificially somebody acarya and everything failed. They did not consider even with common sense that if Guru Maharaja wanted to appoint somebody as acarya, why did he not say? He said so many things, and this point he missed? The real point? And they insist upon it. They declared some unfit person to become acarya. Then another man came, then another, acarya, another acarya. So better remain a foolish person perpetually to be directed by Guru Maharaja. That is perfection." - Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, 08-16-76, Bombay Here PAS advises other devotees to follow the instructions of Prabhupada only when "an advanced uttama-adhikari Vaishnava" is absent. If the devotees are advised to follow Prabhupada when "an advanced uttama adhikary vaishnava" is absent then why not follow the instructions of Prabhupada always and forever. Why expect the presence of a so called "advanced uttama-adhikari Vaishnava" when Srila Prabhupada is already present in his books and has given enough instructions for all to follow? Thus the GBC/gurus are always trying to take the position of Prabhupada in instructing the devotees and eclipse the position of Prabhupada while his instrctions are always are present in his books for all generations to come.
  13. http://www.hare-krishna.org/articles/370/1/Duties-of-GBC-and-Guru-in-ISKCON/ A nice article by Prahladanandan Swami, but still he fails to address the root cause of the problem. According to him, the improper functioning of GBC is the cause of the problems. But according to Prabhupada, the problem is the gurus themselves who became gurus in the first place. I will post the quote sooner.
  14. From this it would appear that literally every single ISKCON devotee who was initiated between November 1977 and 1985 was an insincere spiritual cheater, as 10 out of 11 of the zonal gurus have obviously fallen and in that time period they were the only initiators. Also till 2000 nearly every single devotee from eastern europe was also an insincere cheater, as they were all initiated by Harikesh Swami, another fake guru. Blaming the innocent and ignorant new devotees instead of the false pretenders posing as gurus is a very ignorant analysis of the history. Sincere devotees may go through fake initiations, but in the end Krishna gives them Srila Prabhupada, the real guru and guiding light of ISKCON. It is not just a case of cheaters and the cheated (all devotees being insincere), but a case of Krishna removing the darkness of kali that has entered ISKCON.
  15. What's the harm in getting attached to Prabhupada? Getting attracted to a pure devotee (Prabhupada) or the Lord is encouraged in the sastra. so by hook or crook getting attached to Krishna or his pure devotee is recommended.
  16. True that ISKCON devotees have done many wonderful things in the past 30 years and can still do many wonderful things in the years to come. But my point is, just getting some wonderful things done doesn't make one a pure devotee. If you think that someone who has been instrumental in getting a congregation of 2000 devotees is a pure devotee then you are mistaken. ISKCON GBC has not obviously followed Srila Prabhupada's instruction in the matter of gurus and initiations. During Srila Prabhupada's time huge castles, temples and palaces were purchased for Krishna. But all those palaces and castles were later sold off when zonal acharya's took over. ISKCON used to own an island castle in France. They had huge palaces. Those were all sold off, and finally all temples in France were closed down - not a single temple was left. All because a rascal named Bhagavan [bhagavan Das Goswami, a zonal guru] stole all the money and utilized everything for his own sense enjoyment. When there is corruption and cheating by the conditioned souls projected by the GBC as gurus, this is what will happen. All the wonderful things that you state being done will be spoiled by the wonderful voted-in gurus. This is just one example of one zonal guru's lila. If the GBC had followed Prabhupada's instructions then as quoted by the press in America, ISKCON devotees would have taken over the American government. That was the rate of expansion of devotees when Srila Prabhupada was there. The number of devotees were very rapidly increasing. But the moment the GBC started disobeying Prabhupada's instructions and carried on with their own zonal acharya, voted-in acharya speculation, everything failed. Tamal Krishna Maharaja, one of the 11 zonal acharya's, explained their mood at the time of appointing themselves as successor acharya's: “They immediately… these eleven people are the selected gurus. I can say definitely for myself, and for which I humbly beg forgiveness from everybody, that there was definitely some degree of trying to control. There's a degree of this in most GBC's parts, in most temple president's parts. This is the conditioned nature, and it came out in the highest position of all. ‘Guru, oh wonderful! Now I'm a guru, and there is only eleven of us’.” - Pyramid House talks recorded in 1980. Obviously this mood continues in a majority of them if not all, even till today. So you can imagine the results yourself. Just wait till one them unleashes the havoc again. So the point I am trying to make here is, conditioned souls, however wonderful they may be, however wonderful their accomplishments may be, still they are conditioned by the three modes of material nature. They will have the four defects of the conditioned souls: cheating propensity, imperfect senses, subject to sense ojects and subject to mistakes. They are still prone to fall-down. So they are not liberated and they are not pure devotees to act as gurus to liberate other conditioned souls. If you consider all those who are doing wonderful things to be pure devotees just because they are doing wonderful things, then you are sentimental and mistaken. Let them be wonderful devotees and carry on with their wonderful accomplishments for ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada. But taking the position of the GBC-authorised-successor-gurus is just too much for those still-conditioned wonderful devotees.
  17. When Haridas Thakur was beaten in 21 market places, Caitanya Mahaprabhu personally took those beatings on his own back. Please study these histories before giving your sentimental views. You say Lord Caitanya didn't protect Haridas Thakur, but the actual story is Caitanya took the beatings on his own back, protecting Haridas from any harm at all. This is how the Lord protects his devotees. Now please reflect on your comments: "Get some intelligence!" and "your foolish claim". You do not know what the scriptures say, but you were quick to insult me. Now that you know the real story is opposite to what you said, are you ready to call yourself foolish and start looking for some intelligence?
  18. Accept a pure devotee as guru. The qualities of pure devotees are listed in the books of Srila Prabhupada. Read all the conversations of Prabhupada and you will come to a conclusion. There are many people who are projected as gurus and many devotees around you will try to promote your faith on such a guru. Pray to Krishna and Prabhupada to reveal you. Take your own decisions and responsibility for such decisions.
  19. This is not such a problem that you can just brush it aside and see the good alone. Do you know how much bad-name and faithlessness a fall-down of a guru in iskcon can cause? All the good work that Prabhupada and his followers did in America from 1966 - 1977 were spoiled by the bad propaganda of fallen gurus like Kirtanananda who committed homosexual activities, and swindling money. All this is because of projecting some conditioned souls as gurus. It is utter selfishness on your part to foolishly tell that "If we focus on the faults of others instead of ourselves it is a sure sign that we are not following the process the pure devotees are giving in their talks and books." Infact this kind of sentimental blind adherence is what the ISKCON GBC also wants out of its devotees living in their temples world-wide. When Harikesh fell-down (another conditioned soul projected as pure devotee guru), thousands of devotees in Europe and Russia lost faith in the process of Krishna consciousness and the European BBT fell into irrepairable loss. Many temples in European countries were closed down because this rascal Harikesh swindled 5 million dollars and spoiled the faith of devotees who were forced to believe that he was a pure devotee from the time they were introduced to Krishna consciousness. The problem today is Prabhupada's position is eclipsed by the present zonal / voted-in acharyas who take an image of the leader. When they become leaders they expect all other ISKCON devotees to follow them. Just imagine if one such big leader guru in India happens to fall. If that happens all the temples in India will suffer because of the faithlessness created in the hearts of the devotees and bad propaganda that would follow. The faith of devotees living in these temples is not based on Prabhupada. But on these big gurus. That is the way they have been trained and taught. The only remedy is to stop projecting anyone as a guru and leave it to the individual devotees to decide for themselves on whom they should accept as guru. So ultimately when these conditioned-gurus accept disciples they will have to suffer the karma of the disciples which may result either in fall downs or accidental death or death caused by deadly diseases. This has never been the case with any of the previous acharyas in our sampradaya who were pure devotees.
  20. In Bhagavad Gita (4.38), Lord Krishna says, na hi jnanena sadrisham pavitram iha vidyate tat svayam yoga-samsiddhah kalenatmani vindati "In this world, there is nothing so sublime and pure as transcendental knowledge. Such knowledge is the mature fruit of all mysticism. And one who has become accomplished in the practice of devotional service enjoys this knowledge within himself in due course of time."
  21. For preaching and attracting other conditioned souls we can do any kind of experiments. But for being a guru, only a pure devotee can. Experimenting with this can only be disastrous, for it has already been a disaster for ISKCON with gurus falling / dying in regular intervals.
  22. A pure devotee never makes such mistakes in siddhanta and behaviour. One who makes such mistakes is a conditioned soul. So if such conditioned souls act as gurus, they will have to suffer the karma of their disciples which would result in cancer, hepatitis, car crash etc. So it would be better for them to remain just devotee-preachers and leave the job of the guru to a pure devotee.
  23. I am not trying to propogate ritvikism through telling that the gurus have been diseased so they are unfit. The real point is why the iskcon gbc promotes obvious deviants as pure devotee spiritual masters who have very clearly voilated prabhupada's instructions? if we read their histories we can get convinced how foolishly deviant they were both in siddhanta and in behaviour. Hence one can easily come to a conclusion that they are conditioned souls. So how can such conditioned souls act as pure devotee gurus? For example, Navayogendra Swami rejected the GBC and accepted ritvikism way back in 1998. During this period he stated that he is giving all his disciples to Prabhupada. For this act, he was suspended as a 'guru'. But once he gave an apology letter to the GBC, he was again reinstated as spiritual master. Doesn't it sound funny? There are countless such ridiculous cases after 1978, the most ridiculous being Bhavananda reinstated as a pure devotee spiritual master in 1985 after he was rejected in 1984 only to be rejected again in 1986. What explanation can any sensible person give for these promotions and demotions ? Can anyone promote someone to be a pure devotee guru? Who among the gbc is qualified to make anyone a pure devotee guru? If none are qualified individually then all of them put together are also not qualified. Doesn't the whole system sound ridiculous?
  24. The following quote should help keep a full stop for all sentimental worship of gurus: "A Spiritual Master must be liberated. It does not matter if he has come from Krishna Loka or he is liberated from here. But he must be liberated." - Tuesday, June 10, 1969, Letter to Mukunda. So now you have got only one option: to believe all the ISKCON gurus are liberated. But... In our parampara there is no history of gurus dying from terrible diseases like cancer, or of dying in violent car accidents, but in ISKCON one after another the gurus are suffering from cancer, hepatitis, getting in car crash, being attacked with weapons, etc. Krishna protects his sincere devotees like Prahlada, he doesn't inflict them with cancer and aids (like GBC member and proposed women guru Malati). Krishna doesn't make "Krishnapada" have to amputate his leg before dying of cancer like Bhakti Tirtha Swami (who also supported homosexual marriages). Krishna doesn't make "Vishnupada" have a nervous breakdown like Harikesh, who ran off with 5 million dollars and a mansion in the Rivieras. Most of the present ISKCON leadership such as Bhakti Tirtha Swami, Devamrita Swami, Radhanatha Swami, Umapati Swami, Bhaktisiddhanta Swami, Malati, Kuladri (ex-swami), etc. were all Kirtanananda followers who left ISKCON and followed Kirtanananda's teachings for years. Devamrita Swami was dressed in the Christian robes saying Kirtanananda was a pure devotee as late as 1994. Malati was a female sannyasi under Kirtanananda in the 1990's, who later became a drug addict, was infected with AIDS and is now a GBC. All of these deviants have snuck back within ISKCON and are now GBC leaders and Gurus.
  25. do you think prabhupada is one of the voted-in gurus who is behind his followers to maintain him? you are hollow yourself to comment that the six goswamis and prabhupada were afflicted with diseases. just ask any of these "gurus" to go for days together without food or any drink. goswamis did it. prabhupada sailed across at 70. their consciousness is absorbed in krishna 100 %. it was their lila to be diseased. you can never figure out why they do so with your puny material intelligence. and foolish people dont understand the difference between a pure devotee and those who get voted in to be recognised as gurus. a pure devotee doesnt need anyone to certify him to be a guru. all the present gurus put together cannot become even a fraction of the dust of prabhupada's lotus feet. those who advocate homosexual marriages, those who protect child abusers / rapers like bhavananda, those "goswamis" who still retain the title goswami after being caught sleeping with a woman, do you think all these categories of conditioned souls equal prabhupada? if you do, then you are hopeless too. iskcon today is in this precarious condition because of sentimental fallen-guru-worshippers like you. you are conditioned to protect your not-fallen-but-conditioned guru just out of sentiment. all the best.
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