Murali_Mohan_das

I said "enough said, right" as in this should be enough to help you pause and correct your previous direction which certainly was awry as you can see.

 

And ironically, your idea might have some merit for the time being until Iskcon can work out its problems and is not such an eyesore, I know tons of people who would be happy to be explained to reasonably how engaging in DVD would enhance their lives. Then when they are happy with it, we could introduce them to the Originator of the idea, and they would fall madly in love with such a Wonder Full Being.

 

Hari Hari!

 

{I am guilty of an exaggeration, I don't know tons, just a couple handfuls personally, but I can see there are many others beyond my vision. If I knew them I would just preach to them myself.}

No, I don't see how I was awry, Prabhu. My flippantly-made point about renaming ISKCON has to do with *focus*. The focus is on serving Krishna via the Holy Name, Guru, and the Vaishnavas. It's about Krishna Consciousness.

I mean no offense, but your proposition that folks could be introduced to DVD *before* being introduced to Krishna is simply ludicrous.

From your own quotes of Srila Prabhupad, the recommended medicine is Krishna Nam, and, if the person is somewhat literate, reading Bhagavad Gita. That's where the whole journey starts.

For the typical sense-enjoyer who yet has no taste for Nama Sankirttan, how is a dry discussion of Varnashram going to be appealing?

Krishna is the all-attractive. Krishna is the harmonizing principle. Before any society can even begin to resemble DVD, there must be a lot of purification. Otherwise, folks artificially trying to adhere to DVD have the same chance of success as a neophyte Bhakta trying to impersonate a self-realized Acharya.

 

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada prescribed by direct order that his disciples divide themselves into identifiable categories of varna and ashrama and that was to be implemented in his entire society. As a matter of fact he more or less word for word stated exactly that, I don't have the conversation folio handy, but below I will show ample circumstancial evidence until you can look that quote up yourself on the net.

 

Enough said right?

 

Right. So we should rename it the International Society for Varnashram Dharma, then.

Enough said, right?

I hope to be able to post a more detailed response after my staff meeting.

Hari!!!!!!

I thought eating chocolate is against HK code of conduct???

Only if you're doing so for your own sense enjoyment. If you're eating chocolate in service of Krishna, then there is no reaction.

From my childhood in New Dwaraka, I recall Vaishnavas drinking coffee to get them through the Christmas Marathon.

Once, I heard a great Vaishnava say, "If you need a wife in Krishna's service, take a wife. If you need an atom bomb in Krishna's service, then take an atom bomb."

DVD is there to support bhakti, not replace it.

I would take this one step further and say DVD is an *effect* of Bhakti. When we (or enough of us) become fixed on Krishna through Guru and Gauranga, Varnashram will happen spontaneously. After all, Varnashram Dharma is not a prescription for how things *ought* to be, it is a description of how things *are* in a balanced, God-conscious society.

So, to say we need to artificially introduce DVD to further Bhakti is to have reversed priorities.

By the way, I highly recommend anything by As Kindred Spirits. Gauravani Prabhu (son of famous kirtaniya and ACBSP disciple Bharadraj Prabhu) does some very sweet arrangements of Vaishnava bhajans and a couple of original English songs ("Spiritual Vision" is a favorite).

While I like and respect Rasa for their own inventive arrangements, I find their music to be *too* polished and, ultimately, sterile. To be fair, their latest album was much more soulful and not as rigidly bound by sequenced beats.

Harer Nama, Harer Nama, Harer Nama eva kevalam...

I can give you the 'Hare Krishna' purports to most any Grateful Dead song BTW . I used to sneak out and go to Dead dances when I was a Bramachari because I would hear Guru so strongly through the lyrics to the songs I had been listening to for years. After I took initiation it just got stronger. OK, I'm a freak, hopefully the above isn't really offensive.

While my vision is very limited. I think this is a sign of spiritual advancement. You are beginning to see Krishna everywhere.

I am not a number, I am a free man (Iron Maiden)

Actually, 1960's science fiction TV show, The Prisoner, starring Patrick McGoohan, is the source of that quote. I guess Iron Maiden have good taste in TV.

Here's another good quote:

"I've resigned," he fumes. "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own."

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Prisoner-Megaset-Patrick-McGoohan/dp/B00005NKCQ

"You're gonna have to serve somebody" --Bob Dylan

Govinda! Govinda!

Have you considered that, in a sense, right *now* we are all little Brahmas?

Our bodies are little universes, complete with billions of semi-autonomous cells. We are the consciousness motivating the matter that makes up our bodies. We make the decisions that have grand consequences for our bodily universes. Looking at it that way, it is even *more* vital that we fix our consciousness on the Supreme Lord, isn't it?

There's a story in Shastra about our Lord Brahma going to Vaikunta to see Lord Narayan. When he enters the waiting room, he is amazed to see all the different Brahmas assembled there. Some with 8 heads, some with 16, etc.

Maybe we're the Brahma with half a head

Can Someone Define "demi-god" Which Sanskrit Word Is Translated To Be "half-god" ? Is There Such A Thing ?-- I Think If Understand That We Can Move On

Must be "Dev" (or "deva" and "devi") . We hear about Indra-dev, Surya-dev, Varuna-dev. Of course, this appears not to be an absolute, since we also hear of Lakshmi Devi (and she is a direct expansion of Bhagavan if I am not mistaken) and Viraha-dev (the boar incarnation of the Lord).

"Demi-god" is a better term than "half-god" since, since God is infinite, half of infinity is still infinite. The jiva soul is described as infinitessimal, that is possessing negligible potency in comparison to God while being qualitatively similar (identical even?) to God. "Demi-" indicates similarity, but with dimished status.

Yes friends, it's the Age of Quarrel. May *your* Janmastami be peaceful, spiritual, and devotional!!

*****

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1899067.cms

IMPHAL: Janmashtami celebrations in Manipur turned bloody on Wednesday when a grenade was tossed into the Iskcon temple crowded with more than 20,000 devotees.

The blast left at least four devotees dead and 40 others injured, including Iskcon international director Damodara Swami, police said.

A woman and a child who came to the temple to offer Janmasthami prayers were among those killed. Four foreigners, two of them Americans and a Swiss national, were among the wounded, said additional SP (Imphal) Radheyshyam Singh.

He said the identity of one foreigner could not be immediately ascertained since all the injured had been rushed to different hospitals.

Police said suspected militants hurled a grenade at a mandap inside the temple when the classical Manipuri Raas Leela dance was being performed as part of Janmashtami celebrations. The grenade was hurled at the centre of the mandap where Damodara Swami was sitting.

Of those injured, the condition of at least four was critical. At least 10 children were hurt, most by shrapnel and splinters that tore through their arms and legs.

Organisers estimated about 20, 0000 devotees had gathered on Wednesday evening for Janmashtami, one of the biggest religious events in Manipur, where most Hindus were Krishna worshippers.

The Iskcon temple is one of the major shrines in Imphal valley which is predominantly inhabited by Vashnavite Manipuris. One of the top gurus of Iskcon movement, Damo-dara Swami, stays mostly in Imphal since he's a Manipuri. He was injured on his hands by splinters.

Security at Manipur's biggest shrine, the Sri Govindaji temple, was tightened following the Iskcon blast. Govindaji is another shrine where thousands of devotees gather on Janmasthami night.

As I understand it, demi-gods are jiva-souls like all of us who have attained great power through pious activities, austerities, etc. Kinda like the post of President in the material world. Through their mistakes, they can fall down to a lower position, which is something God does not do.

Also, like our material bodies, the bodies of the demi-gods (though made of a more sublime substance, perhaps, or of a more refined nature) must eventually die.

While I've never heard of Lord Shiva's body dying, it *is* said that the various Lord Brahmas have a limited life-span. I never understood that, if Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are three aspects of Bhagavan, how Lord Brahma can leave His body. Perhaps, as with the Earthly incarnation of Krishna, Lord Brahma is displaying some pastime (lila). Perhaps someone can shed some light.

Gaura hari!!

Sorry if i talked too much. This is all i understand about it and dared hope it may help you.

Good to read your words, merciful Prabhu!! I'm suprised to read such a sincere (without tongue in cheek) reply from you

What you say is very good and certainly is sufficient. I hope I may add a few thoughts to the discussion, however.

I've heard it said that the Vaishnavas are not vegetarians. Rather, they are Prasada-tarians. They do not avoid meat for health or moral reasons (though, to be sure, there are plenty of health and moral reasons to avoid taking meat), but rather because Krishna has not asked us to offer meat to Him. He says, "If you offer me a leaf, a flower, a fruit or some water with love and devotion, I will accept it".

In vedic literature we find that hunting is indeed a pastime of the Ksatriya class. It is part of their dharma. Bhima is a ksatriya, so hunting is acceptable. In this context, I sometimes think of the Native Americans in North America for whom hunting was an almost religious experience. Offerings were made to the dead animal, thanks were given, and nothing was wasted.

Today, we may find self-styled ksatriyas, but can they compare in purity and energy to the ksatriyas from Mahabharata? I think not. Srila Prabhupada wanted us all to be Brahmanas--peaceful, devoted servitors of the Lord, engaged in contemplation of and distribution of the glories of the Lord.

That said, let's examine the term itself, "regulative principles." Note that Srila Prabhupada did not say "commandments". While all who are trying to follow the path of Devotion must try to follow these principles: no meat-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex, and no gambling, it is clear from any number of sources that the primary consideration is our sincerity in performing our service (seva) and spiritual discipline (sadhana). How well we are following or not following is not for others (except, perhaps our senior God-siblings and Gurudev) to judge or comment on except to express concern for our well-being. Failing to follow the priciples ought not to be a source of shame or guilt. Rather, by firmly holding the feet of Guru-Gauranga in our hearts, all our annarthas (stumbling-blocks) will gradually fall away as if by magic.

In fact, in my Gurudeva's sangha, I heard some talk: when giving Hari-Nama initiation, Gurudev is not mentioning the four regulative principles the way Srila Prabhupad did at most initiations. Does that mean we are not expected to follow them? I believe somebody put the question to Gurudev. I don't recall his exact reply, but it was along the lines of: of course, we must follow the principles.

What I take from this is: the four regulative priciples are not religious or spiritual priciples per se. Rather, they are rules of civilized living. Before we can make much progress in spiritual life, we must at least begin to become civilized and regulated.

Of course, as good Prabhu says: Krishna is the Divine Autocrat. He and His expansions can do as they will without concern for social conventions. Let us remember what the emphasis is. It is not rules and regulations. It is Love of God.

Has anyone ever noticed that the Bhagavatam's description of Garbodhakshayi Vishnu lying on Ananta Sesa in the Causal Ocean, sleeping and exhaling all the universes and then inhaling and destroying them very closely parallels the closed system Big Bang theory (where there are a cycle of expansions and contractions).

I never understood why Srila Prabhupad was so against the Big Bang theory. It seems to parallel the Vedic conception with the difference being, Vaishnavas believe in a Divine Consciousness underpinning everything while materialists ascribe everything to pure chance.

Also, remember that most DSL is ADSL (assymetrical), so your upload speeds won't match your download speeds. Typically (though our service was recently upgraded at no charge), ADSL gives one 1.5Mbps downloads but only 128Kbps uploads (though there are a large variety of services). The upload speed is what folks accessing your home webserver will experience.

Looks like an interesting product. I notice it only runs on Windows.

With Mac OS X, there is an in-built Apache web server which can be enabled in System Preferences. Using a service like dyndns.org to map a DNS name (like "audarya-fellowship.com" for instance) to your DSL modem's IP address, and a broadband router that supports configuration for inbound connections, one can achieve much the same thing.

The 2Wire Broadband router I use doesn't support automatically updating dynamic DNS, so I end up going into dyndns.org's site each morning to manually update DNS if necessary.

Of course, if you really want to do it right, you can get a static IP address (one that doesn't change from time to time the way most DSL connections do) with your DSL service, but that can double what you pay per month.

If you could here Kr,sna’s voice: “u got a wrong name for yourself. A true Vaai,snava must not have an L in his name, and even worse if it is in the 3rd syllable; because L is the sound of lying and cheating. U should not like mohana, because mohana is to hide the truth, or myself. You say I m the truth, but u use me as a narcotic. Especially, u want to b slave, when I have created you free! I do not force any creature to slavery; this is shown by the cows, they give me milk, which is properly for their children, not because they r slaves, but only because they love me; people and demigods rule by forcing their subjects, I rule only through love, so I rule the whole world without having any creature as “dasa”, slave. My laws and orders are to protect, enhance and upgrade all creatures’ life; don’t u think u shall escape my laws and orders by calling yourself a slave and therefore irresponsible for your actions”. This is what Kr,sna tells you, but you do not listen.

I did not find the word Gaudiya in the dictionary. What is the gaudiya sect, and if it is not trouble, can you explain me what Vaai,snava sects you know, and what is the specific character of each?

Where are you getting those ideas about names, my friend? Is there an authoratative source, or are you making it up in your superstition? Do tell.

The name was given to me by my Gurudev who is well versed in Vedic Astrology and other fine arts. As explained to me by a Godbrother, "Murali" is Sri Krishna's bamboo flute and "Mohana" is defined as "enchantment" and not deception. So, I certainly hope to be enchanted by the music coming from the flute of the Lord, and am certainly grateful to my Gurudev for giving me this name on which to meditate.

The rest of what you put into the mouth of Sri Krishna is more or less true, though you say it in your typically-infuriating, annoying (surely this is your intent, is it not?) manner.

Gurudev tells that there are five primary moods or rasas in which we can interract with the Lord. They are shanta, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya, and madhurya. Shanta is neutrality--one is neither attracted to nor repulsed by the Lord. Dasya is a relationship of servitude and surrender. Sakhya is friendship (like the cowherd boys in Vrindavan). Vatsalya is parental affection (like that exhibited by Nanda and Yasoda). Madhurya is paramour love.

So, yes, it is said that Krishna most enjoys the madhurya rasa. However, how are we to attain this? I won't try to answer this other than to say that it is not cheaply purchased. Rather, if you are truly interested, inquire from Guru/Sadhu/Shastra.

If I were to classify myself, I would say I am still at the stage of shanta, aspiring for dasya. No doubt, I give the Lord very little satisfaction. By the mercy of Guru and Gauranga, I may make some advancement (if I can avoid making offenses).

Just as one would not walk up to a woman on the street and expect to immediately engage in intimacy, why should we assume that we can jump into intimacy with the Divine? We are covered with so much samskara (material conditioning). Our minds are so polluted (sorry to include you in this, I could be wrong, but I suspect your mind is as polluted as mine). Much purification by sincerely taking the Holy Names and engaging in sadhana bhakti is necessary.

I certainly don't wish to avoid responsibility for my actions as you imply. I have no illusions about using the title "dasa" absolving me of responsibility. However, Sri Krishna himself says that, when all we do is done in a mood of devotion to Him, no reaction/Karma is accrued.

Of course, at the moment, I am still endeavoring like an ass for my own apparent benefit. My aspiration is to increase my taste for, capacity for, and engagement in devotional service.

If you can't find the word "gaudiya" in the dictionary, I suspect you are looking in a Sanskrit dictionary. "Gaudiya" is Bangla/Bengali, I believe as is much of the literature about Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, who appeared in Navadvip, West Bengal. I believe "Gaudiya" comes from "Gaura" which means "golden". "Gaudiya Vaishnavas" are those followers of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

I'm afraid I can't tell you much about other Vaishnava sects. No doubt there are many online and printed resources in which you could research.

Now, my friend, I will leave you to play with your toys (that is, I will no longer reply to your irritations). Do come back and chat when you grow up a bit

Nitai Gaura Hari Bol!!!!

You made me curious, you seem u have read a lot, can you please explain me what Kali is? Is it a female or male deity? born or unborn? if born, who are Kali's parents, and who is Kali's consort? Is it true that a deity is powerful through sacrifices received? If so, what is sacrificed to Kali, and who sacrifices it? Anyway, what makes Kali powerful? How powerful is Kali compared to other deities?

Honestly, dear friend, I cannot tell you much about Goddess Kali. I have not actually read much (just a bit in my younger years). What I say is occasionally my speculation (and I will try to inform you that it is my speculation) and, hopefully, most often is repetition of what I have heard from the Vaishnavas.

Since the Gaudiya Vaishnava emphasis is on the pastimes of Sri Sri Radha-Krishna and Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, I have not heard much about Kali-Devi. I believe (someone correct me if I'm mistaken) She is an aspect of Parvati and Durga, and would make Her, therefore, the consort of Lord Siva. However, while Parvati is observed to be a perfect, prim and proper lady, Goddess Kali's activities can be considered a bit more "unsavory". Her followers are described at times as ghosts and ghouls who hang about the crematoriums and similar places. Of course, I wish to make no offense, so I'd better leave it at that.

As for Deities gaining power through our sacrifices, this is an alien concept to me. The Supreme Divinity is complete and whole--of itself and by itself. It needs nothing of anybody and nobody can add or subtract from it. The sacrifices we make to the Divine are for *our* benefit (though our mood of offering ought not to be a selfish, self-interested mood, but a sincere mood of service).

Also baffling is your question as to which deities are more powerful than others. The Supreme Lord has many forms, but all of those forms are aspects of the same Lord. So, to talk about which is more powerful than the other is rather pointless. They are engaged in Their Lila and will exhibit all manners of activities. In Their play they may even disappear from our sight after being shot by the arrow of a common hunter (as did Lord Krishna). Unless we have clear vision and the Divine chooses to reveal itself to us, we can have no understanding of the true nature of the Divine.

Now, while everything is part and parcel of the Lord, a distinction is made between the various aspects of God and the "Demi-gods" such as Indra, Surya, etc. While God is God and always will be, it is understood that "Indra" is really a post that can be held temporarily by very powerful, advanced jiva-souls.

For more details on that, kindly refer to Guru, sadhu and shastra. The Bhagavat Purana (Srimad Bhagavatam) is overflowing with details on Cosmology.

I even doubt if Kr,sna is a vaai,snava deity, is kr,sna a vaai,snava or a shaakta deity? From what I see, worship of kr,sna works like shaakta worship: it gives quick results especially in matters of love affairs, quick success and even more quick failure, but not any explicit enlightment or power for sexual power restraint: on the contrary, I have observed very easy lose of semen and nocturnal emission at every occasion of kr,sna worship, as if worshipping other shaakta deities. This is why i cannot worship Kr,sna although i have shed rivers of tears reading his stories. He may give success, but not enlightment or power or strength. this is especially true about the Hare Kr,sna mahaamantra: it has proven to be useless and harmful to me. Everything, even the most holy name, is judged by the consequences, not by theory.

Well, Krishna is the All-Attractive, so anybody that appreciates beauty will be captivated by His beauty. So many persons will worship Him in so many different ways. Does that make Him a Vaishnava deity or a Shaakta deity? Neither. He is His own person and belongs to nobody (but freely gives Himself to His sincere devotee).

No offense is intended, but, by now, it is pretty clear that you are a materialist. This is a perfectly reasonable position to take in this day and age. When you talk of "results" you are talking about material results--name, fame, money, sex, etc. Spritual results (sukriti) is not so easy to measure and quantify.

If material enjoyment is what you seek then yes, by all means: AVOID THE HARE KRISHNA MAHAMANTRA AND SRI KRISHNA AT ALL COSTS. When we achieve a sincere taste for Krishna Prem, we will lose all interest in material things. It is said that, in His Infinite Mercy, Sri Krishna will sometimes take away everything (material) from His devotee for the sake of purification (of course, for the devotee who has no attachment for worldly things, like Sudama Vipra, great fortune may be showered on them by the Lord). My Gurudev informs me that chanting Hare Krishna, while being an end and a service in and of itself, is also a prayer for service to the Lord. We are begging, "please engage me in your service" when we chant sincerely. There ought not to be any selfish motive whatsoever.

So if you want better sex, more money, etc., then pray to Lakshmi or Saraswati or some other aspect of the Divine who is more accomodating. Sri Krishna is an enchanting and devious thief who will steal away your heart.

Jesus said: blessed are those who r hungry and thirsty for justice, and Mahaatma Gandhi "there is no religion superior to truth or justice". But u r too much attached to a religion. You put religion higher than justice. M. Gandhi was right in saying: "it is easy to talk about God when you have filled your stomach. But for a hungry person God can have no other form than bread and butter".

[\quote]

Call me too attached to religion. That's fine. I'm trying to follow my religion while worshiping the ideal of spontaneous, loving devotion from afar. I hope one day to abandon all religion and surrender to the Lord.

You can aspire for justice. In my estimation, if there was real justice, we would (almost) all be burning in hell. I know *I*, personally, deserve to be beaten for all my many offenses and shortcomings. Yet, I live a relatively charmed life--why is this?

The Vaishnava tells us: Mercy is higher than justice!!!! Say that five times slowly: mercy is higher than justice!! Clamor for justice and you might just find your head in the guillotine. Clamor for mercy and the whole world can be saved. It is said that, when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was present on this earth, that the entire planet was liberated (how is it that the planet is still populated, you may ask--well, there are plenty of souls waiting to take the place of the liberated souls). That is the ideal I wish to pursue!!

The quote from Gandhi-ji seems very practical, and is certainly applicable under most circumstances. However, to the fully-realized soul, food and such are relatively inconsequential. We even hear of great demons such as Hiranyakasipu fasting for 10,000 years while standing on one foot to gain some material potency.

Now this sounds like superstition plain and simple. From science we get the statement: correlation does not equal causation. Just because you can find a correlation between two events (such as one happening after the other), that, in itself, does not prove that one event caused the other.

We may all believe in karma, but can we say we fully understand the workings of karma? Karma is a very complicated thing which involves countless life-times and great periods of time. It is often said that, for the non-devotee, they are enjoying (or suffering) the fruits of lifetimes past. What you are doing now may not affect you until a subsequent birth.

However, it is said that, for a devotee of Krishna, the reaction may come very quickly so that purification may take place.

I don't understand these things and caution you from assuming that you understand them as well.

I think you're missing the point of what the Lord was telling Arjuna. Krishna says: the soul is eternal and undying; it cannot be slain; as for the body--it is so temporary--consider it to be dead already.

Krishna says do your duty (dharma), but do not be attached to the results of your actions. Rather, do them as an offering unto the Divine. The analogy of the tree is given. We can water the leaf of the tree, but the leaf will not benefit. If we water the roots of the tree, the entire tree is nourished.

In fact, we *do* have a sense of what Krishna would advise today. He came 500 years ago and distributed Infinite Mercy in the form of Sri Krishna Sankirttan--the congregational chanting of the Holy Name. He did not advise killing anybody. Rather, he saved the most wretched Jagai and Madhai from the wrath of Lord Nityananda.

There is no need for apology. You ask very good questions. To seek is very good. Just be sure to accept truth when you find it--after all, ignorance is to ignore what might otherwise be obvious.

I don't recall Jesus saying anything like you are purporting him to have said--I think you're projecting your superstitions again. What He said was that, where two or more are gathered in His name, He is there. Nothing about wish fulfillment, just sincere devotion.

But, my param-Gurudev *did* say: OM is a great big YES!!!! That thing for which you are searching in your heart of hearts *does* exist and it is attainable.

Govinda!!!!! Gopala!!!

I do not care about other divisions of faith. I care about dharma. If adharma makes the performer happy, i want to practice adharma. So if you know, please tell me which is the deity of adharma.

But if adharma makes the performer unlucky, then how is it that it is prevalent?

When you admit that a hen laid it, then you must admit it is an egg; otherwise you r only quibbling.

So, once you get over your dharma hang-ups (see my previous posting), consider this about the "Age of Quarrel" (Kali Yuga).

Yes, adharma may be prevalent (recall that I previously compared the yugas with the seasons, so just like we can say that snow is prevalent in the winter season in Montana, we observe that there is a lot of adharma in Kali Yuga), but also realize this.

Whereas, in previous ages, tens of thousands of years of perfect observance of dharma and tapasya were required to attain liberation, in this age of Kali, by the Mercy of the Lord, one can obtain liberation simply by sincerely chanting the Hare Krishna Mahamantra. So, there are two sides to the coin. While there is some disturbance in this age, there is also great mercy and accomodation.

Dayal Nitai!!!

There r only 2 types of worship: worship of dharma and worship of adharma. Now, which is the worship of adharma? which is the deity that supports the performers of adharma? what does their deity receive as sacrifice? Every kind of conduct has a supporting deity, so adharma ,which is prevalent, must have a powerful supporting deity, or it could not stand in the world. I do not care about other divisions of faith. I care about dharma. If adharma makes the performer happy, i want to practice adharma. So if you know, please tell me which is the deity of adharma.

But if adharma makes the performer unlucky, then how is it that it is prevalent?

When you admit that a hen laid it, then you must admit it is an egg; otherwise you r only quibbling.

You are familiar with the verse from Bhagavad Gita that begins with "Sarva dharman parityajya"? (18:66)

In this verse, Lord Krishna is advising us to abandon all concepts of dharma and simply surrender unto Him. Sounds like a good plan to me. Try not to get too hung up on the dharma thing. It's important, no doubt, but not as important as saranagati (surrender).

As for which deity is prevalent in Kali Yuga amongst the masses, wouldn't that be "Kali"? It's right there in the name. So, if you want to eat meat and drink liquour, then offer it to Goddess Kali, yes? If that's the answer for which you are looking, do I win a prize?

Hare Krishna!!

Yes, He felt annoyed in passage of CC , when all of the people were calling his name,and Srivas and/or Gadhadhar joked with Gouranga :

"...Now can the sun cover itself...?" right?

 

After reading Chaitanya caritamrita i read Caitanya Bhagavath,and concluded,seeing how there devotees enjoyed to see Gouranga as god,that this is for another brother-kind of devotees,wich ?

 

Can we compare them with the liberal ones, visavi conservative ones,of lovers of CC-version..

can i be inbetwen?

Gouranga!

I'm afraid, some of your meaning escapes me (well, much of it), no doubt due to my own deficiencies.

From my hazy memory (not having read CC in some time and never having read Chaitanya Bhagavat at all (though the Vaishnavas will mention content from it from time to time), I seem to recall Mahaprabhu revealing His true form on a number of occasions to His intimate associates. So, it seems that calling Him an incarnation of the Lord is more than just the speculation of later adherents.

Of course, the faithless can dismiss these revelations (or even Sri Krishna's revelations to Arjuna at Kurukshetra) as hallucinations, wishful thinking, etc., but that is their loss.

Dayal Nitai!!!

By the way, you got another thing wrong, there can be no avatara of Krishna, as Narayana is the source of all avataras. Krishna was a temporary manifestation of Narayana and does not exist eternally in a "Goloka".

Ha ha ha ha!! Ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!

Wow, you certainly speak with authority, don't you, friend?

If the finite jiva-soul is Sat-Chit-Ananda, why should an incarnation of Svayam Bhagavan not be?

[more maniacal laughter]

Gaura Hari!!! Gaura Hari!!!!!

Govindam adi purusham tam aham bhajami!

Very wise. This is what the Christians say: pistewe kai mee erewna =believe and do not inquire, do not research. Sure, the rulers of this world want such people: obeying, obeying, and never asking "why".

But Paatanjali says: pratyaxa+anumana+agama: pramanaani.

Every creature is motivated by profit, spiritual or material. Everything is done for living, and for better living. Nobody can believe without a reason. If i must blindly believe, why shall i believe YOU and not a muslim or a christian or a Shaakta who says:to a thousand names of Vishnu a single name of Siva is preferred. To a thousand names of Siva, one single name of Devi is preferred.

I never meant to state or imply that we should not be inquisitive or that we should not research. The question is: what shall we research, and where shall we inquire? Another question is: why do we wish to know some particular bit of "knowledge"?

If we wish to research the motivations of the Sweet Lord, where shall we look?

Your original question was "does Lord Kr,sna want this "kaliyuga"? Is he pleased with adharma?" Let me ask you, why do you want to know? It seems like another attempt to stump God (like the "Can God create a stone that He cannot lift?" question). What benefit would you get from a satisfying answer to this question? Is your intent to shake the faith of the faithful?

If you wish to have some insight into the will of the Divine, then read the words of the Divine in the holy scripture in association with sincere seekers, and, if possible under the guidance of a qualified teacher--Guru. Surely there is truth that is not found in Shastra, and, by the will of the Divine, it may be revealed to us in our hearts, but we must start by purifying ourselves by spiritual discipline -- sadhana.

That said, let me address the question itself. It's really a silly question when one thinks about it. Would you ask, "Why does Lord Krishna want this Spring-time season? Doesn't He know that Spring brings with it all sorts of adharma?" No, spring is part of the natural order--there is no why (though we can certainly explain it cosmologically), it simply *is*. So, the yugas are like seasons--they are part of a natural cycle. Is it really so hard to comprehend?

As for the quote from Patanjali--sure, this is true. But *where* is it true? Is it a universal truth, or a relative truth? It is certainly true here on this "Plane of Exploitation" in which you and I dwell. Guru tells us of another place--the "Plane of Dedication"--where there is *no* selfish interest. The will of each being on that plane is dedicated to serving the Center, not petty, partisan interests.

No one is asking you to believe anything (what to speak of believing blindly). Besides, can we really *choose* whether we believe or not in anything? Not really. Belief is another thing that just happens. By the mercy of Guru we can get some faith. Try to take the Holy Name with sincerity (I wish to take my own advice here).

One last question: why do you pose your question of belief as an either/or proposition? Why must the Christian, Muslim, and Shakta be wrong for the Vaishnava to be right? Isn't that limited thinking? If we think of "Loka" as "dimension" or "paradigm" rather than simply "world", then there is room for all varieties of truth.

From science, we hear of the theory of Relativity. Reality is dependent upon the perspective of the viewer. When travelling at speeds close to that of light, time and space change.

So, sure, for the Shakta, the name of Devi will be preferred. There is nothing wrong with that. To the Vaishnava, though, the name of Krishna is the sweetest. It's not a question of right and wrong, good and bad. It's a question of taste and mood.

Gaura Hari!!! Govinda! Gopala!

Or, that the will of the Divine is beyond our comprehension (unless, of course, the Divine wishes us to comprehend, in which case, we will). Any attempts by our finite minds to encompass the Infinite will lead to frustration or worse.

When the will of Jiva-soul is not harmonized with the will of the Divine, then there is apparent free will. It is by our free will that things (materially-speaking, at least) are deteriorating. Spriritually-speaking (that is, beyond this plane of exploitation and rebirth), all is well, all has always been well, and all will always be well.

Lord Sri Krishna is not my servant (though He eagerly serves His pure devotees)--I aspire to be *His* servant. If I truly have any taste for Him, I will have the mood of the Gopis: Make me happy, make me sad, just never leave my heart or tongue.

It's called "ululation" in English, and, as far as I know, it has no meaning besides the fact that the ladies are happy and excited to take Darshan of the Lord.

Nitai-Gauranga!