Murali_Mohan_das

Thakur Bhaktivinoda ki jai!!!

That's for sure. I myself have no desire to be "normal" by conventional standards.

It is ignorance to think we are equal to God. Period. End of story. While we can harmonize our will with God's will, we will never be God any more than my left foot will be my whole body.

Thanks for your kindness, and understanding, Kula-ji. You see the point which I am trying to make. Beggar seems to be blinded by his emotions (as I so often am).

By mundane calculations, our beloved Sri Krishna is the greatest meat-eater, mass-murderer (think: Universal Form) and philanderer of them all. He is so beautiful, though, He could do anything and the gopis would still adore him as Govinda.

I think you're right. Debating with the atheists and meat-eaters on another web-site lately has been a lot more nurturing of my faith.

Good points. Srila Prabhupada was certainly "Abhay", or fearless.

Also, as has been said many times before, Jesus was no fool. If he *had* studied in India, he knew that he was preaching to simple folk in Palestine, so he couched his teachings in parables and presented things in terms that would be accessible to his audience, rather than use traditional Vaishnava terminology and history.

I wish I could give you a patient, detailed reply. There is a member of Audarya called HerServant who could give you a much better response than I could. If you look through his postings, you'll find a lot of interesting thought and information. To me, it's not so much that Jesus was influenced by Vaishnava thought, but that certain spiritual principles are universal and may be revealed by the Lord in the hearts of sincere seekers anywhere at any time. In brief though, Jesus said to focus on our own shortcomings rather than pointing out the shorcomings of others. Srila Gurudev says, "my religion is finding fault with myself". Jesus placed love of God above all else, as do the Vaishnavas. Jesus placed service to God (though service to God's representative) above ritualistic activities as do the Vaishnavas. That's all I can manage at the moment.

The idea that, in the material world, there can be some objective standard of justice is an illusion--wishful thinking. It is a fact that there are double-standards everywhere and the law is almost never applied equally to all. A police officer told me that he had once pulled over a prominent local businessman who was clearly drunk. Rather than arrest him for DUI, he advised him to drive carefully and sent him on his way. Ultimately, the only fair justice is karma. Beyond that, mercy is higher than justice.

Is it our place to judge the acharya and his actions?

Perhaps that is more a limitation in your vision than an actual reality. I see plenty of Vaishnava influence in Jesus' teachings. His teachings are certainly a radical departure from the Jewish orthodoxy of his time. Others say Jesus was an Essene.

You're implying that my thought is somehow scandalous. To you it might be. To me it is not. Srila Sridhar Maharaja refused to think or speak ill even of those who had attempted to have him killed, or those who blasphemed him. In my mind, Srila Prabhupada, as is Srila Gurudev, is beyond repproach whatever their apparent actions may be. To some folks, some questionable (to them) statements Srila Prabhupada made about women or people of color is enough to shake their faith in him. How shallow must that faith be?

Some folks claim Jesus visited and studied in India.

I have Jewish blood in my body from my mother's side, and *I'm* horrified by some the stances taken by Zionists. The bombing of the King David Hotel seems to have been a clear act of terrorism which was commemorated 12 years ago or so by the state of Israel. They claimed it was a "mistake", though the ship was clearly marked, but Israeli fighters killed U.S. servicemen on the U.S.S. Liberty. Go ahead. Call me a "Jew-hating Jew", theist.

If Srila Prabhupada had, hypothetically-speaking, had an intimate relationship with one of his lady disciples, I would not think of him as any less than what he is--a pure, cent-per-cent dedicated devotee of the Lord. I suspect the (all too shallow and conditional) faith of theist and many others would be shattered.

Well said, Kula! Way to call a lynching what it is.

I see that. No doubt, you are much more interested in being the de facto "acharya" of Audarya and accepting tribute from your grateful "disciples" while being critical of other acharyas. Cheers!!

Funny. My birth father (not my step-father) is a self-proclaimed sahajiya. I guess I'm a son of a sahajiya. I'm still working on achieving sahajiya status, what to speak of true Krishna Bhakti.

That's impossible!! Nobody's *ever* supposed to concede *anything* on Audarya!!!!

There's a difference between imitating the Lord's Rasa Lila and seeing that all enjoyment is coming from the Lord and is ultimately *for* the Lord. Wasn't it *you* theist, on another thread, who was in essence calling Srila Prabhupada's body a "bag of bones"?

A thief thinks everyone else is a thief.

I recently saw something by an ISKCON scientist discussing how it is said in Scripture that everything rests within the Lord and that, simultaneously, the Lord exists within each atom of creation. Taken to a logical extreme, these two statements mean that all of creation is contained within each particle of creation. Truly, this is inconceivable. As you say, discussing these things are useless, as they are inconceivable. Only by the Lord's Mercy can we have any insight.

Good points, Kula! Going back to the opening of this thread: Some people see the body of Sri Guru as being a "bag of flesh, blood and bones". As Srila Prabhupada pointed out in a morning walk quoted elsewhere on this forum, at what point does the flower growing on the tree become spiritualized? Is it that it was mundane when it was growing on the tree, but it suddenly becomes spiritual when we offer it to the Deity? No, he says (if my memory serves), it is our *vision* of it which has changed. On the ultimate level, this is all the energy of the Lord. Ultimately, *everything* is spiritual, though, for the sake of sadhana, we must distinguish between that which is favorable and that which is not favorable. I keep thinking about Kama Gayatri...

No kidding!!! Well-said. It's funny how many materialists I run across on another site who assume that one's choice of diet, for example, is a strictly personal choice, with no consequences to anybody else. *That's* just how narcisistic we've become!!!