Murali_Mohan_das

Jahnava Nitai Prabhu, perhaps you feel some guilt associated with your affluence. I feel no such guilt. I feel my relative affluence to be somewhat of a curse. Because of my college degree, I can get a "cushy" job sitting at a computer, pushing a few buttons and make enough to eat like a king. However, I seldom get to sit or walk in the sunshine, I must struggle to keep my waste-line from expanding, and I spend my day associating with materialistic people.

I'm sure the lives of the Gopis would have been so much richer and fuller had they only learned to read.

I'm saying that those kids where you live are *already* seeing the futility of material life. What nonsense are *you* trying to sell them? Do you think that giving them some cheap, Chinese-made (probably made by kids and slave labor) toys (which might be contaminated with lead) is actually going to help them? Or does it just help feed your ego?

I *do* hope to visit one day. What I can see from my place of luxury is that the luxuries are killing my fellow Westerners. They are fat and lazy and are keeling over from heart attacks and diabetes left and right. Literacy just means that people can *read* their propaganda rather than watching it on TV. As for "climbing the corporate ladder", that's a myth the imperialists use as an incentive to get the serfs to work even harder. Most of the elite were born into their positions. Very few people at all get ahead based on their merits. To quote John Lennon: As soon as your born they make you feel small, By giving you no time instead of it all, Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all, A working class hero is something to be, A working class hero is something to be. They hurt you at home and they hit you at school, They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool, Till you're so f***ing crazy you can't follow their rules, A working class hero is something to be, A working class hero is something to be. When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years, Then they expect you to pick a career, When you can't really function you're so full of fear, A working class hero is something to be, A working class hero is something to be. Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV, And you think you're so clever and classless and free, But you're still f***ing peasents as far as I can see, A working class hero is something to be, A working class hero is something to be. There's room at the top they are telling you still, But first you must learn how to smile as you kill, If you want to be like the folks on the hill, A working class hero is something to be. A working class hero is something to be. If you want to be a hero well just follow me, If you want to be a hero well just follow me.

I wish I could get my kids into Chaitanya Bhagavata (well, I guess I'd have to start with myself). Both of my kids like to hear about Sri Krishna's childhood. I haven't read to them directly from Krishna Book too much, but we do have a few illustrated books from ISKCON devotees, and a couple of Amar Chitra Katha-style comic books. My son is obsessed, however, with Pokemon cards and video games. I've thought how wonderful it would be if he applied that same enthusiasm towards learning about Sri Krishna and His associates, and Sriman Mahaprabhu and His associates, their various qualities, etc. I even thought about creating some sort of Krishna-conscious collectible card game (if it doesn't already exist), but I wondered how appropriate that would be. The fact is, in the West, we try to artificially prolong adolescence, to the point where many people *never* really "grow up", and continue their superficial quest for mindless diversion while avoiding the deeper questions.

Thanks, didi, for adding your perspective. It seems sentimental (and, ultimately, cruel) to lull children into some false sense of security. I say, let them know of the futility of seeking lasting happiness and fulfillment in mundane life, and point them towards true spiritual happiness. Regarding work, my kids are spoiled. I don't think I'm doing them any favors by letting them get away with not helping much around the house. I feel like I ought to be engaging them to their full capacity. Of course, since even the Lord Himself if fond of playing, I *do* think it's important for them to have some time to play and express themselves. Of course, that's different from thinking that life is all about playing games and finding diversions.

Some sobering points (in the article).

I didn't want to say anything "negative" when this was first posted, but something has been nagging at me regarding this. Just *why* is it so much better for kids to play with "proper" toys than it is for them to use what they can find along with their imagination? Just *why* should kids be going to school and playing games rather than working? My kids have a room that's *full* (to the point where it's hard to walk through sometimes) with toys from birthdays, Christmas, or just because Grandma saw something on sale. They hardly *ever* play with these toys. The most fun I've seen them have recently was playing with a couple of sticks in the woods or playing with seaweed and shells on the beach! Why do we feel we need to shelter our children (as did the Gautama Buddha's parents) from the "realities" of this world? Isn't that just setting them up for a future crushing disappointment?

I didn't want to say anything "negative" when this was first posted, but something has been nagging at me regarding this. Just *why* is it so much better for kids to play with "proper" toys than it is for them to use what they can find along with their imagination? Just *why* should kids be going to school and playing games rather than working? My kids have a room that's *full* (to the point where it's hard to walk through sometimes) with toys from birthdays, Christmas, or just because Grandma saw something on sale. They hardly *ever* play with these toys. The most fun I've seen them have recently was playing with a couple of sticks in the woods or playing with seaweed and shells on the beach? Why do we feel we need to shelter our children (as did the Gautama Buddha's parents) from the "realities" of this world? Isn't that just setting them up for a future crushing disappointment?

Interesting differences in the two translations.

I don't know anything, but I *suspect* that you are a fool. As always, I could be wrong. Only Sri Krishna knows anything with any certainty. To the extent that his pure servants are surrendered, Sri Krishna can reveal anything to them. They remain humble servants, though, not arrogant bigots. Now, maybe I should go re-read that quote from Sripad Bhakti Caru Swami about how "justified aparadha" isn't any good for us either.

http://vedabase.net/sb/1/5/en Are you thoroughly honest?

You should know that anecdotal evidence is not the same as empiric evidence. To prove that the Bible has been altered and adulterated, you need an "original" copy (whose authenticity can be verified) to compare with current editions. Lacking that, all you have is blustering assertions. As always, your "reasoning" can be equally applied to Vedic scriptures. Do you have Lord Brahma's copy of the Vedas and Upanishads? How do you know the shastras as we know them have not been polluted over the years? You don't, do you?

Lovely!! Jai Nitai!!!!

Didn't Vedavyas admit that his works were imperfect? Does that make those works "suspect"?

One doesn't "know" anything. Only a fool thinks he "knows" something. Our only strength and solace is our faith. Everything else is "tangential". The acharya tries to pass on without coloration what he/she heard submissively from the Lord in the form of his/her Gurudev.

Of course, this is the view of all fundamentalists, Hindu or otherwise. The Vaishnavas are called Paramahamsas for a reason.

Hear, hear!! gHari hits the bulls-eye (again)!

Jai Gurudev!! All glories to his sincere servitors!

I just posted this to the thread I started in World Review, but it seems applicable here as well (though, as has been pointed out, it seems Maharishi didn't claim to be God). *** <dl><dt>1. </dt><dd> from Time magazine (Feb. 11, 1974) Posted by: "Bhakti Vikasa Swami" Bhakti.Vikasa.Swami@pamho.net bvkswami Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:07 am (PST) Trouble is stirring in Nirvana. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami of the Hare Krishna movement, at a news conference in Hong Kong last week, denounced a rival guru: self-styled divinity Maharaj Ji, 16, now counseling his disciples in California. The ascetic Swami, whose followers constitute a kind of saffron-robed Hindu version of the Salvation Army, began by saying, "You've got to decide whether he is God, or a dog." Noting the young leader's luxurious life style, the Swami declared rather ominously, "He is cheating people, but he will be cheated in a bigger way. When God meets cheats, he can be a better cheat than they." </dd></dl>

A friend sent this to me: *** <dl><dt>1. </dt><dd> from Time magazine (Feb. 11, 1974) Posted by: "Bhakti Vikasa Swami" Bhakti.Vikasa.Swami@pamho.net bvkswami Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:07 am (PST) Trouble is stirring in Nirvana. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami of the Hare Krishna movement, at a news conference in Hong Kong last week, denounced a rival guru: self-styled divinity Maharaj Ji, 16, now counseling his disciples in California. The ascetic Swami, whose followers constitute a kind of saffron-robed Hindu version of the Salvation Army, began by saying, "You've got to decide whether he is God, or a dog." Noting the young leader's luxurious life style, the Swami declared rather ominously, "He is cheating people, but he will be cheated in a bigger way. When God meets cheats, he can be a better cheat than they." </dd></dl>

This past Sunday, I specifically asked Srutasrava Prabhu whether, when he said we must not judge the Vaishnava, it was all right to judge someone who is not formally a Vaishnava. As an example, I gave the Maharishi. Though he did not mention Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in his reply, Srutasrava reminded us that Mahaprabhu's advice to be humble, tolerant, and to give honor to others applied to *all* "others", not just the Vaishnava. Of course, he added, our consideration for the Vaishnavas will be extra special.

What is the purpose of a sunrise?

Having done significant preaching in Russia, Srutasrava Prabhu reminded us of what horrors many of the Russian devotees faced by adhering to their faith. He compared that humorously to how so many of us will suffer some perceived slight at some temple and then swear never to go there again.

In this discussion, I don't think we've yet mentioned the Pancha Tattva Maha Mantra: Jaya Sri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nityananda Sri Advaita, Gadadhara Srivas Adi Gaura Bhakta Vrinda When Srila Gurudeva gives Hari Nama initiation, he advises us to chant this mantra before every round of Maha Mantra. By the mercy of the Pancha Tattva, we can chant sincerely and without offense. I used to see chanting this mantra as something to be gotten through before taking the nectar of the Hare Krishna Mahamantra, but, over time, I've come to realize that, for some, there is even *more* nectar in the chanting of the Pancha Tattva mantra. One of the Babaji's in the Gaudiya Vaishnava sampradaya, so I am told, chanted the Pancha Tattva mantra *exclusively*.