Murali_Mohan_das

I always go back to my Christian roots. What they understand at least in principle is welcoming not only the stranger , but the sinner. Would that ISKCON members could embrace that.

I appreciate your candor.

We all have our "roots" or conditioning. Many aspiring devotees try to ignore their roots with the idea that they can become pukka Brahmins just like those who grew up in Vedic culture. So often this leads to imposition of Victorian morals on Krishna Consciousness, to use one example, and other deviations.

When we are impure, it's inevitable that we will deviate from the standard. To pretend that we are something which we are not (like the fallen gurus seem to have done) is not very useful, and sets us up for eventual disappointment.

As Srila Sridhar Maharaja observes, if we do not deceive ourselves, no one else can deceive us.

To the extent that you are forthright about all of your doubts, misgivings, etc., cbrahma, and do not make any pretense of piety (though you are certainly pious), I admire you.

We live until the Lord wishes us to die. Same as it ever was.

Hey,

 

I was wondering yesterday evening about the following...::

 

How long does a devotee live in the Golden Age, now in Kali Yuga we don't last longer then 100 years, but the Golden Age is an exception in Kali Yuga, right...???

 

 

 

Anybody...??

That said, we need one guru, or at least one guru, who is on that absolute platform and in whom our trust is implicit and absolute.

And it's so much easier to have "implicit and absolute" trust in a guru who will never throw us a "curve ball" (or at least one who has thrown all the curve balls he/she will have thrown in a given incarnation), isn't it?

As Sripad Goswami Maharaja observed not long ago, to follow Srila Saraswati Prabhupada necessitated a constant expansion of one's view of the Krishna Conception, because his presentation was radical and revolutionary. For the followers of "our" Srila Prabhupada who knew him during his manifest pastimes, much the same can be said.

While Srila Gurudev speaks often on the same topics (the H.O.T. principle, for instance), those of us who have heard him speak more than once know that there is always something fresh, new, and revelatory to be found in his teachings based, no doubt, on time, place, and circumstance.

Srila Prabhupada's teachings are timeless, no doubt, but they were also adjusted according to time, place, and circumstance. He himself is no longer adjusting those teachings except through his dear followers.

Srila Sridhar Maharaja specifies:

In the highest stage of devotion, we must see not only one guru

Until we are in the highest stage of devotion, it's best not to equate "Bhagwan Sri" Rajneesh with the Srila Prabhupadas, right?

From my perspective, Srila Prabhupada is not a shastra, though he did produce commentaries on shastra, and he write books that I read. Even though I would be willing to accept, in my life, Srila Prabhupada's teachings as being a kind of shastra, still I would say that Srila Prabhupada is a living individual person, and not himself a sastra. I would say that he is a guru, and that he is qualified and available.

And from my perspective you're deceiving yourself and trying to deceive others (perhaps "playing games" would be a kinder way to phrase it).

Unless you claim to clearly hear the voice of Srila Prabhupada (and, even then, such claims would be suspect) in your heart, your only access to the person Srila Prabhupada is through his writings, lectures, letters, etc., which certainly fall under the category of shastra.

As you said earlier, the authority is described as guru-sadhu-shastra.

You claim to be following that authority, when really, you are following shastra-sadhu-shastra.

I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's not what Srila Prabhupada or any of the Gaudiya acharyas recommend.

I have to leave for the day. Please accept my obeisances.

Dear Murali Mohan Prabhu,

 

Thank you for your response, and for your good wishes. I read Srila Prabhupada's words. The more I read, the clearer things seem. Sometimes someone recommends something from Srila Prabhupada, for me to read. I remain open to hear the experience and understanding of Vaisnavas.

 

The way I see it, a part of Krsna Consciousness is associating with devotees.

 

The interesting thing to me about the experiene that I related, is in connection to the value of letting Srila Prabhuapda speak for himself, rather than endeavouring to squeeze him into the box of my preconceptions.

 

I had a neat experience with that devotee. I read what he wrote, and I wasn't sure if it was in line with my understanding of Srila Prabhupada's teachings.

 

So I asked him a few simple questions. Sadhu-sangha. I was really impressed with his response to me. He didn't preach to me, or defend his position. He told me that it was a deep subject, then he gave me well over 30 references from Srila Prabhupada, to look at. One of these references was, from what I remember, over a hundred pages long. It was an entire chapter from the CC. The devotee asked me if I would be willing to read through these, at least once, ideally twice, before we engage in dialogue, so that we might do it with sober mind and intelligence.

 

Anyway, I still haven't read all of the references yet, but I was impressed. It was like he was letting Srila Prabhupada speak for himself, and then letting me hear him for myself, without filters, and then make up my own mind. After that, he was willing to engage in dialogue with me. I thought that was pretty cool. I don't think that sort of thing had ever happened to me before with devotees. To me this is part of friendship, sadhu-sanga.

 

Sincerely,

Alex

Not exactly (to my vision). It sounds like what you do is more haphazard--depending on random internet Godbrothers to clarify your misconceptions.

I suppose that's what I'm doing as well, in participating on this forum. I try to be honest with myself about it, though. Really, when Gurudev was here in Soquel, I did *not* take the opportunity to sit at his feet and reveal my mind. The only time I sat at his feet was to *take* something from him (Gayatri Mantra), and to give him some small token of my esteem in return. In my fearful state and lack of trust and surrender, I still try to maintain some distance and independence. This is why I am still floundering.

Still, I wish you all the best.

Dear Murali Mohan Prabhu,

 

Thank you for your response. What you've described above is what I do.

 

Sincerely,

Alex

Thanks, Prabhu, for doing the math to satisfy my doubting mind!

I wish you all facility in your service life!!!

Brihat Mridanga ki jai!!

well lets take a look:

 

INK

250ml of ea color cost me 20 dollars the lot total 1 litre of dye ink.

every 10ml are like 150 pages so ea page of black will cost

 

150 pages x 25= 3750 pages

 

so, $5/3750= is $0.0013 dollars (based in one color of ink)

 

my books are handbooks so every page has 4 pages, so I use 24 A4 pages

 

24p X $0.0013= 0.0312 dollars per book using black color of 250cc

 

Ink for a handbook of 100 pages is= $0.0312 dollars

 

Paper:

 

A4 lot of 500 sheets= 1000 pages cost $5 dollars

1000/5= $0.005 so it cost $0.12 dollars a handbook of 100 pages

 

 

Total= $0.0312 ink+$0.12 sheets= $0.1512 dollars per book + self adhesive covering+ covering paper is like 0.3 dollars for the whole book

 

 

That sistem is called CISS you can buy the whole system or just the refillable cartridge, I have this last

Thanks, Alex, for highlighting exactly why it's in our best interest to surrender at the feet of Sri Guru and to reveal our minds (and misconceptions) to him/her for clarification.

Yes I'm well acquainted with all the permutations and simulations of gold - but gold is still gold whether you like it or not.

I like Srila Prabhupada's analogy just fine. It is an excellent analogy.

I'm simply taking the liberty of extending the analogy to include the factor of discernment. Who knows what gold is pure and which is impure? After all, anybody can stamp 18k gold with a stamp that say "24k". It takes a true expert to discern what is truly pure.

It's funny, you're usually the one railing on the GBC stamping 18k (or 14k) gurus as 24k. Ha ha ha!!

And the purest gold one can buy is billed as 99.999% pure, isn't it?

Of course, let us not forget "Fool's Gold", which shines like gold, but which actually contains no gold at all, but is Iron Pyrite.

As my uncle used to tell me, "you don't know s**t from shinola". That's why I depend upon Sri Guru.

Tin plated gold isn't exactly gold. This is semantics not business.

Gold on the element table is defined as

 

Name: Gold

Symbol: Au

Atomic Number: 79

Atomic Mass: 196.96655 amu

Melting Point: 1064.43 °C (1337.5801 K, 1947.9741 °F)

Boiling Point: 2807.0 °C (3080.15 K, 5084.6 °F)

Number of Protons/Electrons: 79

Number of Neutrons: 118

 

There is no mention of locality. This is the analogy Prabhupada himself used to invalidate sectarianism.

Perhaps you know my dad who writes on Audarya Fellowship (rarely) as Gaurhari?

My memory is so poor, though I might recognize his face. He must be a great devotee of the Lord to have raised such a good-hearted and spiritually-dedicated daughter.

Dandavat Pranamas to you and your family.

Nitai-Gaur!!

That's some fancy tilak, Kula!!

nicely said...

 

this is my "pagan" approach to KC

 

Gold is still gold no matter where you find it. If somebody is making a distinction between Indian gold over American gold they are not interested in the gold as much as the designation. That is maya.

True enough.

But there's certainly a difference between 14k and 24k gold (what to speak of gold-plated tin), isn't there? It's all about the impurities (though I'd rather focus on the purities than the impurities) when it comes time to ascertain the gold's value--that's just good business sense.

Nicely said.

No doubt, just as my impurities prevent me from closely following the instructions of my physically-present Gurudev, your sincerity and honesty will lead you to our mutual Goal.

LOL. "From within" or "descended" it is the same thing. Krsna in the Gita says He enlightens His devotee from within.

But of course.

I could use a few good thwacks about the head from Gurudeva's cane, though, to go along with that inner revelation (or catalyze the process).

I can't stomach these discussions any more. In whizzing through this thread (while holding my nose), I came across this:

As time moves on in this century, a polarization will happen that will see the two camps of Vaishnava’s move in separate directions, it is already happening – Those who know we came down from Goloka, and those who foolishly choose to believe we originated from impersonal Brahmajyoti and have never been to Goloka or Vaikuntha, will gradually move in different directions.

Talking about "two camps of Vaishnava's [sic]" displays a superficial mentality. For the Vaishnava (do I even need to say "real" Vaishnava?), there are no camps.

We can know. Transcendental knowledge is understood by those that have transcended.

Theist clarifies this statement in the rest of his comment. Alone it implies that we can transcend the mundane by our own efforts.

As he says, by dry, empiric reasoning, we cannot conceive of that which is inconceivable.

However, the Lord can reveal to us whatever He chooses to reveal.

I'd rephrase that quote to read: Transcendental knowledge is understood by those to whom it has descended.

Theist sees revelation coming from within. Of course, that is true in a sense. I prefer to see it as descending from above.

Nice I will do that, now I remember that my dvd writer has lightscribe:eek:

I recently got a Lightscribe DVD/CD burner. I love it for what it *does* do. Of course, burning labels on it is slow, there is no color, and the media are still much more expensive than the inkjet printable media.

The Epson inkjet printers (well, the newer ones--I have the R200) allow one to print directly on the inkjet printable disks. I never liked the inkjet printable labels that one had to try to affix to the disk--too messy and tedious.

The drawback with most inkjet printable disks (or paper, for that matter), is that if some water gets on it, the label/paper is ruined.

Oooh! I've never seen anything like that. Do you know what your ink cost per page is with that system?

Epson printer are the most expensive if you don't use this system:

 

Thank you, Beggar, for you harmonizing insights.

I was afraid you were going to spank me again and send me away with my tail between my legs.

I meant no offense, Alex. It seems like none was taken.

What irks me is to see folks taking a Christian approach to Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Obviously, billions of people have been inspired by the teachings and example of Lord Jesus. Millions of people have similarly been inspired by the teachings and example of Srila Prabhupada.

Conversely, millions of people have been killed, tortured, and such due to conflicting opinions regarding the significance and application of Jesus' teachings.

As others have observed, we are starting to see this tendency in those who stubbornly refuse to follow the advice of Srila Prabhupada and the other Gaudiya Acharyas to seek out a qualified guru, sit at his/her feet and humbly seek instruction.

Whatever our qualifications and self-opinion, it is hubris to think that we can take instruction from Srila Prabhupda's books without the guidance of a senior Vaishnava. Misconceptions are almost guaranteed to arise in our minds (unless we are already fully-realized).

Well, you must not disgust the great personalities the way I do. They must be happy to associate with you, wheras they simply tolerate me (at best).

Perhaps you've mentioned before, but who are your parents?

Yes, she definitely is. We used to visit each other sometimes, that's how I know her.

 

Actually I don't travel much, I got to know such great personalities because I had been living there!

 

Jai Nitai!

I accept that I'm responsible for the consequences of this choice, and for the consequences of all choices that I make.

That's fair enough.

However, you are also responsible if you publicly mislead others.

An excerpt (hand-transcribed) from the amazing "The Erotic Priciple and Unalloyed Devotion", attributed to Professor Sanyal, with a forward by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati (though some attribute the entire pamphlet to Srila Saraswati Prabhupada).

***

The sexual principle is a misunderstood symbol of the reality. It can no more be banished from our consciousness than the consciousness itself. The male and female forms are also not the sole and distinctive possessions of this world. There is a reality behind them as well. The soul has a body which is symbolized by the female form and which is absolutely free from any unwholesome material association. Our present objection to the female form is due to the egotistic principle which for the same reason does not object or rather, readily enough adopts the male form as more properly representing the pure little soul. This repugnance to the female form prevents us from unprejudiced examination of the position and functions of the milkmaids of Braja. The recognition of the female sex is a necessary factor of our conception of amorous love. The amorous love is the highest subject of human poetry and the most powerful factor in all human activities. Its worthlessness is not established by the mere refusal to recognize it as a part of our nature. It would be much more to the purpose to try to understand what it really is. The Srimad Bhagavat is the only book that furnishes a satisfactory answer to this all-important question.

***

Do you know Devamayi mataji...Srila Sridhar Maharaja disciple?

Last I heard, she was living up near Berkeley. She's a wonderful Vaishnava!!

I can't say I know her well, though. Her daughter went to Columbia University to study journalism, I believe.

Wow, didi, you certainly are well-traveled and well-connected.

I just can`t understand this teaching of Lord Chaitanya that Krishna and me are simultaneously one and yet are different.

That's right. You never will. Acintya means "inconceivable".