amanpeter

Let the whole world witness the real unity of the United States of America! I've posted it on `Spiritual Discussions` because I see in all this the indestructible spiritual strength of the greatest nation on this planet. God bless you all!!!

An email from Charles Brennan, 18 year old

An open letter to a terrorist:

Well, you hit the World Trade Center, but you missed America.

You hit the Pentagon, but you missed America. You used helpless

American bodies, to take out other American bodies, but like a

poor marksman, you STILL missed America. Why? Because of something you guys will never understand.

America isn’t about a building or two, not about financial

centers, not about military centers, America isn’t about a

place, America isn’t even about a bunch of bodies. America is

about an IDEA. An idea, that you can go someplace where you can

earn as much as you can figure out how to, live for the most

part, like you envisioned living, and pursue Happiness. (No

guarantees that you’ll reach it, but you can sure try!). Go ahead and whine your terrorist whine, and chant your

terrorist litany: “If you can not see my point, then feel my

pain.” This concept is alien to Americans. We live in a country

where we don’t have to see your point. But you’re free to have

one. We don’t have to listen to your speech. But you’re free to

SAY one. Don’t know where you got the strange idea that everyone

has to agree with you. We don’t agree with each other in this

country, almost as a matter of pride. We’re a collection of guys

that don’t agree, called States. We united our individual states

to protect ourselves from tyranny in the world. Another idea, we

made up on the spot. You CAN make it up as you go, when it’s

your country. You guys seen to be incapable of understanding that we don’t

live in America, America live in US! American spirit is what

it’s called. And killing a few thousand of us, or a few million

of us, won’t change it. Most of the time, it’s a pretty

happy-go-lucky kind of Spirit. Until we’re crossed in a cowardly

manner, then it becomes an entirely different kind of Spirit. Wait until you see what we do with that Spirit, this time. Sleep

tight, if you can. We’re coming.

Charles Brennan -------

I think this pretty much sums up the American point of view. The Reluctant Messenger

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The world's religions and science are pieces to a puzzle

that need one another to achieve a complete picture.

http://www.reluctant-messenger.com/main.htm

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amanpeter@hotmail.com

Stone: I've had a similar idea for the past few years--that many of us geezers, as we move toward the next stage of our lives (many of us are in our 50's), will look for opportunities for increasing our preaching. Ontop of that, we'll bring to the table maturity, lots of experience with the world, as well as all the skills we've picked up in our professional lives. I have serious doubts, though, about ISKCON's ability to accomodate us (I don't mean put us up, but more like put up with us). While I lived in San Diego, I had great facility for service, including giving regular classes. Because I've been able to keep my troublemaking tendency in check, the devotees graciosly tolerated me and appreciated what I had to offer. However, when I asked ISKCON leaders (GBC members, sannyasis, temple presidents) what they had in mind as a future for me, they invariably said something like "You seem to be doing fine as you are--nice example of responsible householder, kids grew up okay, still married after almost 30 years, etc." In other words, they had no vision and were unable to show how or where I might fit in ISKCON. And they liked having me around so they could introduce me as a "senior Prabhupada disciple," local college profeesor, and stuff like that. I know of many other older devotees who have had similar experience. I've actually gotten more encouragement for actually moving toward a life of preaching from Tripurari Maharaj and my old, dear friend and vartmapradarshaka-guru Turiya das and his wife Shaktimati, who live on Maui.

I, too, have thought deeply about these points. As long as ISKCON can use us to bolster or authenticate their leadership and present policies, we're welcome. However, appreciating us as individuals, able to offer uniquely valuable contributions, is for the most part impossible within the organization as a whole. As those who were actually present with Srila Prabhupada, we are seen to be a potential threat to those who would misrepresent his intentions for their own purposes.

Here in ISKCON Toronto I see how my realizations and experience are needed, but because I could never fit in `politically`, my personal input at every level is subtly discouraged. Don't fret, prabhu. We'll soon be back to serve Mahaprabu in new impoved bodies! Watch out ISKCON!!! Peter/valaya

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amanpeter@hotmail.com

I have heard Iskcon leaders explaining that those killed at the World Trade Center "got what they deserved", but is that how devotees show

their compassion in times of tragedy? It is just like telling devotee

children who were abused in Gurukula that they were "getting their

karma". I have heard that the Hare Krishna's are first in philosophy

and last in compassion. Why not first in both? Titiksava karunika.

A devotee is tolerant and compassionate. In fact, a devotee is

supposed to be an ocean of mercy. Not that we should lament for the

loss of the material body, but devotees must speak the truth

palatably especially at times when there is extreme suffering.

RIGHT ON!

Originally posted by Tarun:

Dear Random Tandem,

Would you like to hear the story of who was faithful to whom?

Would you like to see a transcript of my sons and daughters' last email and phone conversations?

Send me your forwarding email address to trund@altavista.com

Or maybe they're faking it. Maybe you know more than me.

Your unelected presidential candidate continues to import cocaine.

Everybody knows it.

You now better than me all the drop off points.

Take your cut, keep your mouth shut, be satisfied.

If you don't understand why we pulled down those Twin Towers by now, ask your favorite White House dweller.

He won't tell, not even you, but he does know.

Sounds like you belong in Canada, Tarun prabhu! Got a nice little furnished apartment by the University of Toronto, right downtown. American and Canadian sattelilite T.V. are included along with lots of vaisnava books. The Communist Party of Canada headquarters is only a couple of blocks away, as is the United States Consulate. Perfect for left-wing commie pinko intellectuals to picket! My street is full of outdoor cafes and cheap international restaurants where you could find many to appreciate your particular brand of wit, without confusing it with `twit!

Please let me know if you'd like to trade places for awhile. Another miserable dark slushy winter is approaching, but an advanced devotee such as yourself surely won't be concerned by that. You must be anxious to leave all the capitalist sense gratification in Florida. I'd be happy to help! Peter/valaya

p.s. This offer is also open to any other American devotees who may not appreciate the blessing of American citizenship and residence in the greatest country in the world.

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amanpeter@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-15-2001).]

Originally posted by Maitreya:

suryaz, remember they are expecting 21 virgins to be waiting for them.They know it's hell alright.

Rats! I thought it was 50!

They shouldin' of shot up old Buddha like that...

Originally posted by JRdd:

Hmm, yes, it seems that only AFTER the results of the experiments come out--when the havoc has already been wreaked--do we get to know? so how do we avert this disasters--I mean experiments? How do we know what is risky experimentation and what is valid innovation?

 

JR

Try it on yourself?

Originally posted by shvu:

Yes, that is why there can be no such thing as spiritual progress. It just doesn't make sense.

 

Cheers

Only in an impersonal sense. The key is to try and grasp the concept of intimacy. This can be understood, to some extent, through our own most personal relationships.

Originally posted by shvu:

They are all uniformly bogus. Having had some interest in astrology myself, I was following the various predictions since 1989. First they said, calamities will begin in 1996 and will result in the end of the world by 2000. Nothing happened. Now a new set of guys have come up with a new set of dates.

 

The funny thing is although people see that the astrologers predictions do not work, they still don't stop seeing them. They want to hear exciting and promising stuff. The astrologer knows exactly what people want to hear and he goes ahead with his con game. People swallow the astrologers talk and make them rich in the process.

 

It is a case of mutual interdependancy. Both need each other

 

Cheers

Right! Enough fearful speculation already. Thread closed!

Originally posted by shvu:

They are all uniformly bogus. Having had some interest in astrology myself, I was following the various predictions since 1989. First they said, calamities will begin in 1996 and will result in the end of the world by 2000. Nothing happened. Now a new set of guys have come up with a new set of dates.

 

The funny thing is although people see that the astrologers predictions do not work, they still don't stop seeing them. They want to hear exciting and promising stuff. The astrologer knows exactly what people want to hear and he goes ahead with his con game. People swallow the astrologers talk and make them rich in the process.

 

It is a case of mutual interdependancy. Both need each other

 

Cheers

Right! Enough fearful speculation already. Thread closed!

One example is when he first rejected the idea of book distribution in regular clothes and wigs but later permitted it after a discussion with Karandhar and others

The beginning of the end..."Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!"

Originally posted by JRdd:

Hari bol, Valaya. to me that thread on vnn was contentuous because it focused on the bodily platform. As if that is devotee women's focus. Also there were blatant descriptions that should not have been spoken about in mixed company. I personally felt offended both on my behalf and on behalf of my sisters who I know to be way above the standard of nonVaisnavis, and I believe that thread arose out of pent up frustrations on the part of men. I hated being thought of as my body. Heck, even ordinary women can relate to that feeling. Not to say I don't feel the yang of you all (and I think the mix is good, when well-directed) but it is much more encouraging to be seen as a devotee first. And certainly never as someone who is Miss Walking Lust.

 

hari bol, good night,

Jayaradhe

 

LOL! That would be Ms. Walking Lust, wouldn't it? I agree with your interpretation of the VNN thread, JRdd. Frustration does seem to be an important factor, especially with some of us trying to come to grips with middle-aged bodies. One householder `brahmacari-wannabe` in particular was a major instigator, in my opinion. Wonder where he is now? Maybe one of those `gypsy ladies` he was so concerned with finally plucked him off the street, while he was innocently engaged in the Lord's work!

Originally posted by stonehearted:

Stone: Next thread--what's wrong with heterosexuality?

Prabhu, that thread was already on Vnn and it went into, I think, six pages just before the entire forum shut down! Whether there was a cause and effect relationship , we do not know, but it certainly caused a major and very bitter battle, including a split between many of the men and women. Some of our relationships here may still be tinged by that brouhaha. Is there really anything more to be said by anyone on this particular subject that has not already been discussed several times over? Peter/valaya

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-13-2001).]

Originally posted by JRdd:

When you stop posting?

Now that's one prediction I can test! Uh, you did mean on this thread only, I hope...

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-14-2001).]

Originally posted by JRdd:

When you stop posting?

Now that's one prediction I can test! Uh, you did mean on this thread only, I hope...

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-14-2001).]

Prabhu, we may be willing to risk our own lives, but these `people` are completely callous. What if they were holding that knife to a young child's throat? What if your brave foolhardiness resulted in the painful deaths of several others, right in front of your eyes? There is much more to consider than anyone who has not been there, or specifically trained in such situations, could begin to imagine. Sorry to say, the solutions if any are not so simplistic.

Originally posted by animesh:

If you want, you can interprete Nostradamus's prophecies to mean anything. When there are bugs in the softwares developed by me, then he must have predicted those too.

Can anyone predict the end of this thread which has nothing to do with Spiritual Discussions!

Originally posted by animesh:

If you want, you can interprete Nostradamus's prophecies to mean anything. When there are bugs in the softwares developed by me, then he must have predicted those too.

Can anyone predict the end of this thread which has nothing to do with Spiritual Discussions!

`What's Wrong With Homosexuality?` Well, for one thing, it sucks participants into something which can never reach any mutually satisfying, fruitful conclusion. It just goes on and on, back and forth, similar to this thread itself. There really is no end except to pull out, prabhus...all points have already been made several times by both sides. Why continue to poke at each other in such an obviously unproductive effort?

RE: Alfred E. Suggest large flower in left hand, possibly baseball cap with happy face button.

How about Alfred E. Newman, tilaked and hand in bead bag, saying "What, me worry?".

I like it! Only make it a huge beadbag with his left, instead of his right, hand in it and `what me worry` on his t-shirt. Also, wearing a dhoti and sandals! Now should he be shaved up or with long hippie hair?

...and Murali Manohara playing His flute with His Supreme Mona Lisa smile.

Don't forget His girlfriend...

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-13-2001).]

And most of the arrests were for selling books. Where were you at the time?

Hare Krishna, BDas

Mine was for chanting. Of course, if Danavir prabhu hadn't stuck his kartals right in that cop's face immediately after he'd warned us to stop with the "ching! ching! ching!"...

JN: Srila Prabhupada was always against divorce. When "disciples" would not obey him, he simply told them, "do as you wish".

 

BD: That’s correct and that is my point. This is called a concession.

No, that is called giving up, as in "What can I do?". What would you expect Srila Prabhupada to say when `disciples` kept pestering him to condone what he'd already said was wrong? Throwing up one's hands should not be taken as throwing in the towel! valaya

Thank you for clearing that up, prabhus.