bija

LOL!

Come on:rolleyes:...did you guys really write it. Or did the heart of man;).

Two months ago I was in a Second Life...some christian meeting. They were advocating this Sola Scriptura...

I went to the meeting to try and learn what they taught. Unfortunately all they talked about was how woeful catholic doctrine is.

That's all they talked about...so I did not let on my hindu feelings. For I did not wish to feel condemned by their elite religious thinking.

Raghu, I recall well, last year when I wished everyone here at Audarya a merry xmas...and you cracked the stinks...accusing me of being biased in my considerations in offering that good will.

Actually I want to thank you for that...it was the final page in my understanding how 'pathetic' things can get. And what attitudes I have no time for any longer...whether they be christian, hare krsna, or atheist.

By the way Raghu, you should try Second Life, there is a philosophy house where all they do is condemn opposing thoughts, especially religion. You may find it fun.

cheers

ps. one of my neighbours is a full time minister teaching this Sola Scriptura. These people will not even look me in the eye and say hello...it must be the eternal damnation thing:idea:.

It makes me wonder what kind of society in-grains such narrow and intolerant religious thinking...

From these statements it is no wonder that religious societies today have sectarian infighting, and appear to be ready to implode.

Narrow sectarian religion like you have expressed here is very different than many western catholics uphold (the cosmic universal christ).

Infact Raghu, the fundamentalists and protestants often have a hard time with the liberal and mystical catholic views - some fanatics even calling it the devil!

lol

over the years jeff, pankaja's service has helped me...made the computer lots of fun.

i was thinking pankaja that kc cant really be given up if it is intrinsic...we may just perceive our kc at different levels at various times in our lives. maybe while this body remains we tolerate fluctuation...and maybe the smallest acts of devotion will last for eternity. no loss...

...Cooking, crushing or chopping disables the stinging hairs. Stinging nettle leaves are high in nutrients, and the leaves can be mixed with other ingredients to create a soup rich in calcium and iron.<sup id="cite_ref-8" class="reference">[9]</sup> Nettle soup is a good source of nutrients for people who lack meat or fruit in their diets.<sup id="cite_ref-9" class="reference">[10]</sup> The young leaves are edible and make a very good pot-herb. The leaves are also dried and may then be used to make a tisane, as can also be done with the nettle's flowers....

http://bearmedicineherbals.com/?p=271

My personal experiences with Nettle would indicate that both of the above terms suit this remarkable plant very well. Winston and Kuhn specify Nettle seed as a trophorestorative for the kidneys, and I believe they may also serve the same function for the adrenals as well. Dried seed, when taken (chewed well, or ground) orally, promotes a sense of clarity, wellness, heightened energy levels, reduced stress and seemingly increased lung capacity. They are especially effective for those suffering from severe burnout, resulting in profound fatigue, brain fog, chronic pain and alternating feelings of depression and intense anxiety. Nettle seed can lessen all of these symptoms, and sometimes eliminate them completely. For some people, they can dramatically effect or shift perception, promoting a sense of connectedness, well-being and mild euphoria. Physical and mental stamina is usually increased, and exertion may seem more enjoyable to the individual. Several people have reported having their sense of color brightened and expanded, probably due to the mood altering effects.

Watch Srila Prabhupada's DVD [we all waited 30 years for these to be made available] and look at his face and try to pinpoint his moments of "Mission accomplished" or, "I can believe this is happening" or, "Yes, Yes, Yes I've done it. It's done" or, "I'm a genuine first-rate guru extrardinaire, par-excellance" ---this is so glorious.

 

See Prabhupada as he stays somber and dignified just when He should be effervescent with jubilation & revelry.

 

These moments of SP own personal 'a sense of great accomplishment' is hidden in his face & deportment. --remember that Video tapings were rare just as his appearence at any venue was, especially an Iskcon temple its self, since SP traveled so much in the formulative years of Iskcon's youthful years.

cool jan...real nectar!

I only heard from Srila Prabhupada, and compare anything anyone else says (like reading on forums, his godbrothers, past acaryas, etc) to his words. posted by andy

I dont understand Andy, the mood of the pure Prabhupada disciples. Why would they need to test the acaryas writings in this way?

THAT is a long answer. Suffice it to say , it is correct for me.

 

fair enough too.

thought you may like to share some small insights about universalism or something...might help some of us go beyond the sectarian stereotypes....

The tatastha jiva is lacking in chit-shakti and hladini-shakti.

The gurus invests the disciples with both these shaktis through siksha and diksha.

 

A tatastha jiva is incomplete in comparison to the liberated souls.

I dont know really. I always thought anything that eminates from the complete perfect is also complete in itself.

You seem to have a black and white vision of philosophy and tend toward polemics. And polemics produces its own effect...

Some catholics are very broad-minded indeed. One local priest I know during seminary and afterward developed much affection for the Benedictine way. His best friend in seminary became a disciple of Bede Griffiths.

I went to his local catholic church some years ago and they were very welcoming. Even more welcoming than the Hare Krsna temple that has always been very exclusive (from experience).

The local catholic church was very interested in my eastern faith and fully accepting of it.

To be honest catholic devotee of christ, I adore pioneers of the vatican 2 council such as Thomas Merton and Bede Griffiths.

Have you ever read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Asian-Journal-Thomas-Merton-Directions/dp/0811205703

A very interesting personal diary of Merton's first and last Asian journey.

I was raised a catholic during the seventies. My childhood memories of the church back then still inspires me.

May I ask, what else drew you to catholicism?

I have always thought of Godhead as Godhead. The Gaudiya vision of Godhead is full of diverse potencies and personalities.

And being a part of that Great Person feels like a wonderful home.

the wonder of shakti hey...can transform the best of us;).

i have been car free and pedal power mobile for some years. great experience and slowed things alot.

there is some really cool pedal power workhorses for example

http://www.trisled.com.au/maxibike.html

http://cargocycles.com.au/

same here sanatana...krsna and prabhupada took me too

cya

hey, we got some thread crossover communication going down...

i will bookmark dharmacentral and read.

The Man From Viraja River, by Bijo Paterson ]

There was movement at the temple, for the word had passed around

That the soul from tatashta shakti had got away,

And had joined the siddha souls - he was worth a thousand pound,

So all the peeps had gathered to the fray.

All the tried and noted seekers from the places near and far

Had congregated at the Audarya overnight,

For the pioneers of devotion love the land where the nitya-siddhas are,

And the simple servant snuffs the commotion with delight.

There was Harrison, who made his claim when Caitanya's philosophy won the cup,

The balladeer with songs of touchstone;

But few could ride beside him when his blood was fairly up -

He would go wherever jiva souls could go.

And A.C. of the Bhaktivedanta came down to lend a hand,

No better devotee ever held the reins;

For discordance could not throw him while the Inconceivable Truth would stand -

He learnt to dance while loving in the middle plains.

And one was there, a neophyte, with truths not yet complete;

He was something like a dark horse undersized,

With a touch of Guru and disciple - three parts thoroughbred at least -

And such as are by those who hold the truth mighty prized.

He was hard and tough and wiry - just the sort that won't say die -

There was courage in his quick impatient tread;

And he bore the badge of gameness in his quick and fiery eye,

And the proud and lofty carriage of his Head!

But still so slight and weedy, one would doubt his power to stay,

And the wise man said, "That way will never do

For a long and tiring journey - lad, you'd better stop away,

These hills are far too rough for such as you."

So he waited, sad and wistful - only A.C. stood his friend -

"I think we ought to let him come," he said;

"I warrant he'll be with us when he's wanted at the end,

For both his way and he are Vaikuntha bred!

"He hails from Goloka, up by faiths good side,

Where the trees are so precious and Sri Krsna's play twice as rough;

Where cows hooves strike and dreams come true from touchstones every stride,

The man that holds his own is good enough!!!!

And the holy truth seekers on the heights make their home,

Where the river runs those giant hills between;

I have seen full many sincere souls since I first commenced to roam,

But nowhere yet such courage have I seen!!!"

So he went: they found the cowboys by the big Govardhana clump,

They raced away towards the hill's brow,

And the wise man gave his orders, "Boys, go at straight way from the jump,

No use to try for fancy riding now!

And, A.C, you must wheel them, try and wheel them to the right!

Ride boldly young neophytes, and never fear the spills,

For never yet was a seeker that could keep his truths in check,

If once they gain the shelter of those sacred hills!!!"

So A.C. rode to wheel them – his mission was racing on the wing!

Where the best and boldest hippies took their place,

And he lived a pure devotion and he made the karatals ring!

With the rod of chastisement, as he met them face to face!

Then they halted for a moment, while he swung the dreaded lash,

But they saw their well-loved Holy Land now full in view,

And they charged beneath his counsel with a sharp and sudden dash,

And off into the Govardhana scrub they flew!!!

Then one by one other jiva's followed, where the forests deep and black,

The land resounded to the thunder of their tread,

And the enthusiastic woke the echoes, and they fiercely answered back

From cliffs and crags that beetled overhead.

And upward, ever upward, the young truth seekers held their way,

Where tulsi tree and kalpa-vriksha grew wide;

And the wise man muttered fiercely, "We may bid the mob good day,

NO man can hold them down the other side or to tatashta way!!!"

When they reached the Govardhana's summit, even A.C. took a pull -

It well might make the boldest hold their breath!!!

The wild basil grew thickly, and the hidden ground was full

Of potholes, and any slip was death!!!

But the man from Tatashta Shakti let young courage have his head,

And he swung his rod of truth round and gave a cheer,

And he raced down the holy mountain like a torrent down its bed,

While the others stood and watched in very fear!

He sent the touch-stones flying, but his courage kept his feet,

He cleared the fallen timber in his stride,

And the man from Tatashta Shakti never shifted in his seat -

It was grand to see that truth seeker ride!

Through the coiling vines and creepers, on the rough and broken ground,

Down the hillside at a racing pace he went;

And he never drew that young courage till he landed safe and sound

At the bottom of that terrible descent!!!

He was right among the other souls as they climbed the farther hill,

And the perfected on the holy mountain, standing mute,

Saw him ply the rod of truth fiercely; he was right among them still,

As he raced across the clearing in pursuit!!!

Then they lost him for a moment, where two realities met!!!

In the middle plain - but a final glimpse reveals!

On a dim and distant hillside the wild and courageous racing yet,

With the Jiva from Tatashta at their heels.

And he ran them single-handed till their sides were white with foam;

He followed like a bloodhound on their track,

Till they halted, cowed and beaten; then he turned their heads for home,

And alone and unassisted brought them back!!!.

But his hardy young spirit could scarcely raise a trot,

He was blood from hip to shoulder from the fray;

But his pluck was still undaunted, and his courage fiery hot,

For never yet was another mountain far away!!!

And down by Mother Ganga, where the river rushes raise

Their torn and rugged spines on high,

Where the air is clear as crystal, and the white stars fairly blaze

At midnight in the cold and frosty sky,

And where around the Joining of the Rivers the reed-beds sweep and sway

To the breezes, and the rolling plains are wide,

The Jiva from Tatashta is a household word today,

And the wise men tell the story of his ride!!!

If there is a lack of knowledge and renunciation, it is to be understood that one is not in full devotional service. The conclusion is that one cannot be sure of entrance into the spiritual realm—in either the impersonal brahmajyoti effulgence of the Lord or the Vaikuṇṭha planets within that Brahman effulgence—unless he is surrendered unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord. The surrendered souls are called akuto-bhaya. They are doubtless and fearless, and their entrance into the spiritual kingdom is guaranteed.

 

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> If there isa lack of knowledge and renunciation, it is to be understood that one is not in full devotional service. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

This brings up a question in my mind. If someone is illiterate how can he be full of knowledge? That brings up the question of what is the real definition of knowledge?

...The surrendered souls are called akuto-bhaya. They are doubtless and fearless, and their entrance into the spiritual kingdom is guaranteed....

The devotee sees the Supreme Personality in all things. The devotee is very simple in that his realization is 'Krsna is everything, Krsna is my master, all things are for Krsna's pleasure'.

The divine realization is devotional service...and the guru teaches the disciple to see Sri GaurangaKrsna everywhere.

With this vision the devotee becomes fearless in full self surrender. That is devotional knowledge, that any person can understand. That is also perfect renunciation.

Infact Theist, according to Srila Prabhupada, with that type of vision we are already living within Vaikuntha. It is free of head stuff, that vision is soft and simple, much different than the head stuff.

*************

As marginal souls presently, we can see two worlds:

Vrajanatha: What is the tatastha-svabhava (marginal nature)?

 

Babaji: It is the nature that enables one to be situated between both worlds, and to see both sides. Tatastha-svabhava is the eligibility to come under the control of either of the saktis. Sometimes the shore is submerged in the river because of erosion, and then again it becomes one with the land because the river changes its course. If the jiva looks in the direction of Krsna – that is, towards the spiritual world – he is influenced by Krsna sakti. He then enters the spiritual world, and serves Bhagavan in his pure, conscious, spiritual form. However, if he looks towards maya, he becomes opposed to Krsna and is incarcerated by maya. This dual-faceted nature is called the tatastha-svabhava (marginal nature)...

http://www.bvml.org/SBNM/JaivaDharma/15.html

We are in contact with mind and other material elements. So we will observe all these polarities...head, heart etc. All these opposing elements can be purified by application. Rather than wrestling and renunciation...the devotee is free because he is fully integrated. Rather than disintegrated and fragmented.

 

http://www.causelessmercy.com/SB4.24.2.htm#35

 

TEXT 34

namaḥ paṅkaja-nābhāya

bhūta-sūkṣmendriyātmane

vāsudevāya śāntāya

kūṭa-sthāya sva-rociṣe

 

 

SYNONYMS

namaḥ—all obeisances unto You; paṅkaja-nābhāya—unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, from whose navel the lotus flower emanates; bhūta-sūkṣma—the sense objects; indriya—the senses; ātmane—the origin; vāsudevāya—unto Lord Vāsudeva; śāntāya—always peaceful; kūṭa-sthāya—without being changed; sva-rociṣe—unto the supreme illumination.

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

My Lord, You are the origin of the creation by virtue of the lotus flower which sprouts from Your navel. You are the supreme controller of the senses and the sense objects, and You are also the all-pervading Vāsudeva. You are most peaceful, and because of Your self-illuminated existence, You are not disturbed by the six kinds of transformations.

 

 

PURPORT

The Lord as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu lies in the ocean of Garbha within this universe, and from His navel the lotus flower sprouts. Lord Brahmā is generated from that lotus flower, and from Lord Brahmā the creation of this material world begins. As such, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, is the origin of the material senses and sense objects. Since Lord Śiva considers himself to be one of the products of the material world, his senses are under the control of the supreme creator. The Supreme Lord is also known as Hṛṣīkeśa, master of the senses, which indicates that our senses and sense objects are formed by the Supreme Lord. As such, He can control our senses and out of His mercy engage them in the service of the master of the senses. In the conditioned state, the living entity struggles in this material world and engages his senses for material satisfaction. However, if the living entity is graced by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he can engage these very senses in the service of the Lord. Lord Śiva desires not to be misled by the material senses but to engage always in the service of the Lord without being subject to contamination by materialistic influences. By the grace and help of Lord Vāsudeva, who is all-pervading, one can engage his senses in devotional service without deviation, just as the Lord acts without deviation.

The words śāntāya kūṭa-sthāya sva-rociṣe are very significant. Although the Lord is within this material world, He is not disturbed by the waves of material existence. However, conditioned souls are agitated by six kinds of transformations; namely, they become agitated when they are hungry, when they are thirsty, when they are aggrieved, when they are illusioned, when they grow old and when they are on the deathbed. Although conditioned souls become very easily illusioned by these conditions in the material world, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as the Supersoul, Vāsudeva, is never agitated by these transformations. Therefore it is said here (kūṭa-sthāya) that He is always peaceful and devoid of agitation because of His prowess, which is described herein as sva-rociṣe, indicating that He is illuminated by His own transcendental position. In other words, the individual soul, although within the illumination of the Supreme, sometimes falls down from that illumination because of his tiny position, and when he falls down he enters into material, conditional life. The Lord, however, is not subject to such conditioning; therefore He is described as self-illuminated. Consequently any conditioned soul within this material universe can remain completely perfect when he is under the protection of Vāsudeva, or when he is engaged in devotional service.

 

TEXT 35

saṅkarṣaṇāya sūkṣmāya

durantāyāntakāya ca

namo viśva-prabodhāya

pradyumnāyāntar-ātmane

 

 

SYNONYMS

saṅkarṣaṇāya—unto the master of integration; sūkṣmāya—unto the subtle unmanifested material ingredients; durantāya—unto the unsurpassable; antakāya—unto the master of disintegration; ca—also; namaḥ—obeisances; viśva-prabodhāya—unto the master of the development of the universe; pradyumnāya—unto Lord Pradyumna; antaḥ-ātmane—unto the Supersoul in everyone’s heart.

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

My dear Lord, You are the origin of the subtle material ingredients, the master of all integration as well as the master of all disintegration, the predominating Deity named Saṅkarṣaṇa, and the master of all intelligence, known as the predominating Deity Pradyumna. Therefore, I offer my respectful obeisances unto You.

 

 

PURPORT

The whole universe is maintained by the integrating power of the Supreme Lord, who is known in that capacity by the name Saṅkarṣaṇa. The material scientists may have discovered the law of gravity, which maintains the integration of objects within the material energy, yet the master of all integration can create devastation by the disintegrating blazing fire emanating from His mouth. A description of this can be found in the Eleventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, wherein the universal form of the Lord is described. The master of integration is also the destroyer of this world by virtue of His disintegrating energy. Saṅkarṣaṇa is the master of integration and disintegration, whereas Pradyumna, another feature of Lord Vāsudeva, is responsible for universal growth and maintenance. The word sūkṣmāya is significant because within this gross material body there are subtle material bodies—namely mind, intelligence and ego. The Lord in His different features (Vāsudeva, Aniruddha, Pradyumna and Saṅkarṣaṇa) maintains both the gross and subtle material elements of this world. As mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā, the gross material elements are earth, water, fire, air and ether, and the subtle material elements are mind, intelligence and ego. All of them are controlled by the Supreme Personality of Godhead as Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna and Aniruddha, and this will be further explained in the following verse.

 

[ATTACH]2005[/ATTACH]

funnily enough this pic looks like my dog...i like cows too

Why are cows still considered holy to this day? i cant see why they are more worth than other milk bearing animals or just other animals? I understand their importance in ancient india for their milk but why now? posted by soma juice

I have often thought these things too Soma. And have found several personal benefits from accepting this tradition of cow worship and plant (tulasi) worship.

Coming in contact with these traditions of mother cow and sacred tulsi helped me focus upon two aspects of nature. And to hold deeply these single two nature pieces as living spiritual presence and grace of God.

Gradually this sense of the sacred broadened my vision, to what earth really is. Vibrant, sacred, and deeply spiritual realm of living consciousness.

So, I can see why a single animal or single plant is held in high regard this way.

But, as for someone like yourself who seems to have developed a certain spiritual culture naturally, maybe you have always sensed or intuited the broader vision?

sometimes best to let go and honor the person. if things are meant to be they will come back.

the anxiety and suffering caused by separations may have various causes. i think if we let go and honor...the anxiety goes away.

and, as bhaktajan has so nicely pointed out using scripture...if we do not become disturbed and angry, then delusion cannot cloud us.

without those clouds we will see clearly.

"If, therefore, the mode of passion, instead of being degraded into the mode of ignorance, is elevated to the mode of goodness by the prescribed method of living and acting, then one can be saved from the degradation of wrath by spiritual attachment." posted by jan

I am pretty sure clinger was standing at the ocean edge having an identity crisis...

sand? water? dry? wet? oh dear...

all their ritual and formalities made them into a staid ol' bunch...

compared to some...

[url=" "]

the imagery certainly leaves impression on the psyche:crazy2:

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by shiva

So, you just copy a bunch of stuff you didn't read from a website ( http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/siva.htm ) to make some point? Which is? Can't you ever just admit any mistake?

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

There are not two Shivas.

You made up that up behind a joint.

There is one Shiva with numerous forms. by sonic yogi

 

from Bhagavatamrita Kanika by Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura:

 

The gross body of Brahma, consisting of the total material substance (the aggregate of the universal form of material nature, extending from Patala up to Satyaloka), is also known as Brahma. Hiranyagarbha, Who is manifested within that gross body as subtle living entities, is also known as Brahma. The indwelling soul therein, the second purusha, Garbhodasayi, is Iswar, the Supreme Controller. He Who is the destroyer, by the action of the mode of ignorance is Lord Siva. The indwelling purusha within the Universal Form as well as the subtle form of the Creator, Hiranyagarbha, Who is the super excellent controller born of the lotus flower, have both been referred to as Brahma. This Brahma also accepts the form of Siva for the purpose of destruction. During some kalpas very pious jivas attain this position whereas in others, Lord Vishnu Himself accepts the position of Lord Siva. However, the personality of Sadasiva, is a plenary portion (vilas-vigraha: as distinct from svamsa expansions which are endowed with a smaller degree of potency from the original Godhead) of the self-same form of the Supreme Lord, Shri Krishna, and He is transcendental to the three modes of material nature. It is from Him that the gunavatar of Siva is expanded. Therefore He should be understood to be superior to Brahma, equal to Lord Vishnu, and entirely separate from jivas, who are influenced by the material modes of nature.

 

click here for full e-book

Maybe Frank Morales is simply a self actualized soul, who is manifesting service.

Self-actualization in service mood would be desirable to find one-day. If he is the real deal, he is a good man.

By the design of super-soul a man has gotta do what he gotta do. I think this way too Stonehearted.

If Frank nurtures and cares deeply for his disciples, I feel God would honor that, and assist him in his own personal spiritual journey and the pitfalls that can come across the path. Any designation of spiritual value, like acarya, does not make one super-guru.

This label 'American Acarya' is possibly just tag allowed for a specific reason:

Shrila Prabhupada in SB 1.5.16 purport:

"The expert devotees also can discover novel ways and means to convert the nondevotees in terms of particular time and circumstance. Devotional service is dynamic activity, and the expert devotees can find out competent means to inject it into the dull brains of the materialistic population. Such transcendental activities of the devotees for the service of the Lord can bring a new order of life to the foolish society of materialistic men."

Shrila Prabhupada inCc Adi 7.31-32 purport:

"Here is an important point. Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu wanted to invent a way to capture the Mayavadis and others who did not take interest in the Krishna consciousness movement. This is the symptom of an acarya. An acarya who comes for the service of the Lord cannot be expected to conform to a stereotype, for he must find the ways and means by which Krishna consciousness may be spread."

 

 

When analyzing this man's ministry I would consider level of care/nurture he has for his spiritual children (those who take his shelter). The fruit will manifest from there. And I am sure God would honor his sincerity.

What sect he mainly identifies with (if any), is only really relevant to those who take his shelter. That is their choice of spiritual counsel.