bija

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by bija

I am beginning to wonder. What role does religion play in the coming age...

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Great topic bija! Start a thread!

by narasingh

 

already have... ...one...

 

...it has very little to do with gaza strip...or maybe it does.

 

general ramblings ofcourse.

 

'persons are individuals who transcend their merely organic individuality in conscious participation'.

already have... http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/450766-one.html

...it has very little to do with gaza strip...or maybe it does.

general ramblings ofcourse.

What is the Cosmic Organism up to (of which we are a part)? If we hold to the hope of a cosmic evolution, then the future really does look good. Sages throughout the ages have glimpsed our potential. Some even glorified the concept of 'personality' to a high degree. Could it be that we really are One? And that, it is not an impersonal affair? Instead living, breathing, growing together?

In time each part of the whole may arise to a new vision. Fully integrated and definately inter-connected! All things are inter-connected! We can see it?

The vision of a Cosmic Christ, or, Krsna consciousness and Goloka as the destiny? These possibilities await us (unlimited potential and variety)! Live it! Breathe it! We are One! It is diverse! It is yours to choose - make it!

'persons are individuals who transcend their merely organic individuality in conscious participation'.

Come along now - all these wars and violence, separated sectarian affairs - is not it! The Truth is it...And the Truth is ever-new, and always moving forward...

It is our destiny. We are One Person! We are parts that love It! We are conscious...

So How do you propose that we will understand Bhagavan/His Form/His names/His Being with our pathetic intelligence? posted by ranjeet

We will 'all' have to wait and see Ranjeet.

Great opening post, thank you Ranjeet!

If I had not put forth these "logical" questions, it would never have occurred to you to bring out these arguments. So in my opinion, my questions are not futile. They are addressing a very key concept. by kaisersose

Definately.

I am not saying Bhagavan is formless, but how can you say Bhagavan has a form, especially in line with your above admission that Bhagavan is beyond the mind and the concept of forms is within the mind? by kaisersose

Onetime one gentleman explained a similar conception to Srila Sridhar Mararaja, saying, "We are the finite and then there is the infinite. If the infinite is truly infinite then it cannot be known to the finite. Srila Sridhar Maharaja then replied, The Infinite is not Infinite if He cannot make Himself known to the finite." by beggar

What is the Cosmic Organism up to (of which we are a part)? If we hold to the hope of a cosmic evolution, then the future really does look good. Sages throughout the ages have glimpsed our potential. Some even glorified the concept of 'personality' to a high degree. Could it be that we really are One? And that, it is not an impersonal affair? Instead living, breathing, growing together?

In time each part of the whole may arise to a new vision. Fully integrated and definately inter-connected! All things are inter-connected! We can see it?

The vision of a Cosmic Christ, or, Krsna consciousness and Goloka as the destiny? These possibilities await us (unlimited potential and variety)! Live it! Breathe it! We are One! It is diverse! It is yours to choose - make it!

'persons are individuals who transcend their merely organic individuality in conscious participation'.

Come along now - all these wars and violence, separated sectarian affairs - is not it! The Truth is it...And the Truth is ever-new, and always moving forward...

It is our destiny. We are One Person! We are parts that love It! We are conscious...

hare krishna is the holy name...it is pure and perfect...others may join in if they like - some may wish to chant other names...there are unlimited names and expressions of the supreme

"O Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krishna, the unlimited Possessor of the six opulences in full of wealth, beauty, strength, fame , knowledge and renunciation, You have most mercifully and compassionately impregnated, invested, and manifested Your own Holy Names with Your entire potencies and energies in full without any exception. Thus, You Yourself and the sound vibration of Your principal Holy Names are the same non-dual and undivided Absolute Truth. Therefore there remains no difference whatsoever between You and Your divine Holy Names and You are directly and personally present with Your entire potencies whenever and wherever Your Holy Names are vibrated or heard. There is not even any hard and fast rules or considerations of time, place, situation, cleanliness, qualification and any other external conditions for remembering or chanting Your Holy names. They can be chanted at all the times and in all situations. Inspite of You making it so sublime and easy for Me to experience and realize You constantly, simply through the chanting of Your divine Holy Names, it is My greatest misfortune that I am not able to awaken and develop deep and spontaneous attraction, attachment and devotion to the incessant chanting of Your Holy Names due to My ten offenses to Your Holy Names."

May my heart be free of giving offence...

 

Then bhakti will arise.

8. Eat all your food and never waste any.

not sure...should have, sorry I did not reply

thx jeff.

new years day here...windy and rainy (and quiet and nice). it is bin day and all the bins are out, full of stuff to the brim. bottles, cans, and assorted things.

in the middle of the street is a green strip, full of grass (and weeds)...took the dog for a walk just then, and picked up the trash blown (from the bins) by the wind.

sacred earth hey jeffster. happy chai!

The sages have said that 'bhakti' (devotion) is the essence and kernel of life. I would agree, and say it is the quiet potency - with power to change. To change the seed into a grand tree of love and life.

Gone are the days of street corner preaching (that never was for me), and gone is 'Hare Krsna Hare Krsna all must join in!' Instead, now has come the quiet revolution - the quiet devotion. A new earth. And a new child.

The seed lies within the heart, just like a babe in the womb. Its time will come, to bring joy to all who see - with 'no need' of words. Some can feel it gently kicking, others can see a radiant smile. Within, all know the seed of life.

Bhakti has always been a thing of the heart - and the soil has always been sacred ground. Fertile.

May my heart be free of giving offence...

Then bhakti will arise.

let there be one more discussion (at least) please. ooops, I meant to say topic.

I am beginning to wonder. What role does religion play in the coming age...

cheers:eek4:

beware the body and faith snatchers...and the soft shoe shufflers...

beware of darkness...

where angels fear to tread...

how old is your friend?

if she is old enough, sometimes it is best to walk away...

a family member may have serious issues, and mature people can see the depth of the issues to some degree. some stay and hope...some leave.

in due course all involved need to heal.

<embed src="

May the new year bring happiness to all who seek.

May the heart extend to see,

that no-one is separate from the self.

That every thought, word, and deed has power to heal -

one-self. Then all is healed.

May the new-year bring the treasure of your heart

before my eyes. May that treasure be mine to live and breathe.

Happy new year dear readers...

bija

(from the beautiful downunder-and its beaches)

Sarve Janah Sukhino Bhavantu. posted by brahmanyan

yeps...

<embed src="

just let the journey open...we are like a 'beautiful lotus flowers'

in time as the lotus opens more and more, we will understand 'more of our being' as humans.

I cannot advice you on your dream, except to say let it happen. your heart is a gift.

there is one nice story in pure land buddhism. the bodhisattva comes back to take souls to his pure land. the souls awaken inside a lotus in the pure land...in the company of buddhas. one by one the souls sitting in the closed lotuses become aware...finally, in due course their lotus opens in full bloom. they then realize that they are pure buddhas sitting on open lotuses, in a crystal clear lake - with many other buddhas.

kind bodhisattva made this pure land for all of us. the vibrations of his meditation open the lotuses for us. he is the buddha of compassion.

oh, by the way...happy new year. may your dreams blossom. bye.

May the new year bring happiness to all who seek.

May the heart extend to see,

that no-one is separate from the self.

That every thought, word, and deed has power to heal -

one-self. Then all is healed.

Amma, may the new-year bring the treasure of your heart

before my eyes. May that treasure be mine to live and breath.

Happy new year dear readers...

bija.

About 14 years ago I had a dream that thousands of people (including myself) were sitting in a huge concert stadium (football arena). We each had super high-tech touch-pads sitting on our laps. Each groovin' and making individual tunes with our high-tech touch-pads.

Anyhow, each persons unique electronic jive was plugged into a central processor. I was fortunate that I could hear the 'total' tune 'of all' combined, from that processor. One Song!

The music was great, magnificent, and beyond words to describe, 'exquisetly beautiful, almost like angels singing' - are words that do no justice to describe the depth of the total beauty.

That was a long time ago.

Hope this helps...good travels Pandora:cool:...

By the way Beggar...I love ya dog...a young one. Beauty. Thx, nice pic.

They are the best of mates for sure...

Why cannot the brahmajyoti be both a loka or place, and a state of the individual consciousness of the jiva, simultaneously. Maybe how both can be true is acintya or inconceivable? If a jnani was realized could he/her be simultaneously appearing in a material body on Earth and merged with brahman? After all everything exists within consciousness. There are the individual points of consciousness and the Infinite Consciouness. Whether we are correct or not in our original thesis sometimes we either make mistakes or are over-zealous to prove that we are right. One time Srila Sridhar Maharaja was asked about a controversy, "who is right." He then replied, "It doesn't matter who is right but rather who is sincere." by beggar

Maybe you are close to the mark Beggar, consciousness 'is' like that.

Where would the sincere wish to be...that is a question worth considering? Some may wish to be here, some there... I guess it depends where we are at. Where our worship lays...

Anyhow, I am off to the underworld to put on face paint, burn some sage, speak to spirits...and hug a tree...cya>>>>>>>>

I was knocked out in round ten...and will now join my ancestors and be faithful to my genes. Earth it is!

Disregard all I have said on this subject, I was wrong...knowing now that consciousness is bigger than my logic and the crow.

My feet 'are' in two worlds, anyhow. Spirit world and earth. One cannot deny his nature...

I dont own a mobile. But it sure is good to see you getting active again, in such nice service. I agree nice flash presentation by Suchandra.

Would be cool if Prabhupada's books could be in an all in one chm reader oneday;). Would love that for my linux eeepc.

Austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness, the basic principles of religion, prepare the ground for the reception of advancement in spiritual knowledge, and Maharaja Parikshit made this favorable condition possible. Thus the rishis of Naimisharanya were able to perform the sacrifices for a thousand years. In other words, without state support, no doctrines of philosophy or religious principles can progressively advance. There should be complete cooperation between the brahmanas and the kshatriyas for this common good. Even up to Maharaja Asoka, the same spirit was prevailing. Lord Buddha was sufficiently supported by King Asoka, and thus his particular cult of knowledge was spread all over the world.

To receive state support, for such a bold transition of society, wouldn't the state itself have to be a reasonable structure? Do you think that the current trends in some societal structures - capitalism being a pinnacle philosophy for example - are strong foundations for such a social transformation?

I mean look at the American financial crisis, being bought on by consumer greed. Now countries like Australia (with current leaders that condemn U.S. faults), in all irony, find the only way out of recession is to increase spending!

It just doesn't seem a good foundation to build a transformation upon.

We really need a transformation in consciousness, even as a collective. Maybe hard times are like birth pains, before the birth of a new child.

To have a deeper sense of the sacred may simply mean spending time to find it. Thoughtfulness and quality japa time for example, is very subtle, and yet very powerful...and very transformative. The society, in my opinion, needs time to slow down...so that it can discover the aesthetic of human experience - which is spiritual life (experience).

I think the proverbial rug has to be pulled out from underneath every devotee for any real implimentation by division of work and life style to take place amoung them. J

Nature seems to pull the rug often, in one way or another. Sometimes if that is 'intense experience' then we may redefine what life is all about, for sure. I feel Bhakta, that such things are around the corner for many...

I don't know much about american convention;).

Years ago Mark I approached an Iskcon farm (almost ten years ago) to see if it was possible to move in that direction and lifestyle. There was one very nice devotee there, so I asked him about varna-ashrama lifestyle, and how would I fit into it. Becuase at that stage I knew my disposition was dairy hand and cleaning etc. I had worked milking cows previously and relished the work.

From the response I received, it was obvious that there was no varna-ashram system in place. And far from being actualized.

You are so right you know, that we each need to be aware of our station and skill. This is a great key to harmony. I can see Srila Prabhupada's vision in this regard. Even the concepts of kali puja etc that you quoted in another thread at audarya. He was broad in vision hey?

There is one farm community being established some hours away from here. Funds are low and they are offering some accomodation services to raise money. They seem to be open to people coming and investigating the life-style and learning. With a theme of un-cluttered living to focus on the main thing. Definately a long term vision...

One of the main people there, is a very nice brahmana and extremely kind. An exceptional person actually. Maybe Mark, that is where the secret to success lies in community? With Krsna conscious brahmanas giving guidance. Catering for all needs and dispositions in their council. Like Srila Prabhupada did (as far as I know).

For years Sarva I kept it simple (if somewhat naieve)...devotion being the common ground. But after years associating at audarya fellowship I realized not all think that way.

Now I am beginning to realize that devotion sprouts many diverse fruits in the heart, even in its budding stage. And that the diversity and beauty of life is full of complexity. I feel that convergence is definitely possible for the human race...rather than divergence. I believe there is evidence of this in the world today. I believe that is our great hope - as evolved conscious human beings.

(ofcourse my mind is bias from seeing the horrors of ideology on the nightly news night after night - so am cautious of ideology)

if we become Krishna conscious, isn't it a possibility

Yes, if God consciousness is deep, and free of the unnecessary. And full of its true potential. Maybe Mark is suggesting a clutter free life, by implementing varna-ashrama.

No no..

No Jnana misra,Karma misra.

 

We are by nature greedy for highest happiness.

Only Sri Radha Krsna Bhajana in the mood of Parakiya bestows that kind of happiness.

 

Sri Krsna says to Uddhava,Your more dear to me than Myself or even Shankara.

 

And you know it better that the gopis are accepted as greater than Sri Uddhava.

 

Thus ONLY raganuga...Not even Vaidhi.

Thus no question of Jnana/karma misra bhakti.

 

Ranjeet understanding theoretically the goal of Gaudiya Vaisnavism is not that difficult (for me), but some need to be practical in day to day life. For example not all are rasika bhaktas, but instead (personally speaking) have devotion pervaded by yoga and jnana. These samskaras cover my heart and are well founded in the mind.

So my questioning is this...if we are at a lower station than the ideal of suddha-bhakti, can jnana-misra-bhakti be applied as a follower of Sri Caitanya?

Personally I think it is possible, even if not perfect way. Necessary in that one has to follow their nature (and apply it in service). That is the way I see Gita as a practical and progressive spiritual treatise. Maybe by following that nature the ideal will manifest in due course. Maybe association in the future will bless the sincere with the high ideal...that is why I think you have such excellent shelter in your GuruMaharja. Run to it...>>>>

Ofcourse I know Ranjeet that all our teachers speak of the 'pure bhakti'. But for me it is not yet possible. Whereas jnana-merging consciousness and self integration-yoga seems closer to attainment (it is tangible experience). Still full of desires ofcourse, with out that one pointed vision to please God (alone) through simple love. That is my misfortune (considering I hold the ideal of Sri Rupa in the deeper aspect of heart).

Pure bhakti is such a rare thing, hey Ranjeet.

Vijaya: What are the intrinsic characteristics (svarupa-lakshana)

of bhakti?

 

Babaji: By the order of Sriman Mahaprabhu, Sri Rupa Gosvami

has described the intrinsic characteristics of bhakti in Sri Bhaktirasamrita-

sindhu (1.1.11) as follows:

 

anyabhilashita-sunyam jnana-karmady-anavritam

anukulyena krishnanu-silanam bhaktir uttama

 

Uttama-bhakti, pure devotional service, is the cultivation

of activities that are meant exclusively for the benefit of

Sri Krishna, in other words, the uninterrupted flow of service

to Sri Krishna, performed through all endeavors of body,

mind, and speech, and through expression of various spiritual

sentiments (bhavas). It is not covered by jnana (knowledge

of nirvisesha-brahma, aimed at impersonal liberation)

and karma (reward-seeking activity), yoga or austerities; and

it is completely free from all desires other than the aspiration

to bring happiness to Sri Krishna.

 

This sutra very clearly describes both the svarupa-lakshana (intrinsic

characteristics) and the tatastha-lakshana (extrinsic symptoms)

of bhakti. The word uttama-bhakti refers to pure devotional

service. Devotional service mixed with fruitive activity (karma450

misra bhakti) and devotional service mixed with speculative knowledge

(jnana-misra bhakti) are not pure devotional service. The aim

of devotional service mixed with fruitive activity (karma-misra

bhakti) is sense gratification, and the aim of devotional service

mixed with speculative knowledge (jnana-misra bhakti) is liberation.

Only such devotional service free from any trace of desire

for fruitive results or liberation is uttama-bhakti (pure devotional

service).

 

The fruit of bhakti is prema. The svarupa-lakshana of bhakti is endeavors

favorable for Krishna (krishnanusilanam) performed with body,

mind and speech, and loving attitude of mind (pritimaya-manasa).

Such endeavors (ceshta) and spiritual sentiments (bhavas) are both

favorable (anukulya) and constantly dynamic. By the mercy of

Krishna and His bhaktas, when the special function of the internal

energy of Bhagavan manifests upon the jiva’s own spiritual strength,

then the true form (svarupa) of bhakti takes birth.

 

In the present state, the jiva’s body, mind and speech are all

materially afflicted. When the jiva directs them by his own discrimination,

the result is only dry speculation and renunciation,

and the true nature of bhakti does not manifest through them.

However, when Krishna’s svarupa-sakti becomes active in the jiva’s

body, mind and speech, the nature of pure bhakti immediately

becomes manifest. The ultimate aim of all spiritual activities is Sri

Krishna, and that is why real devotional activity must be favorable

towards Krishna. Endeavors performed for realization of brahma and

Paramatma are not accepted as pure bhakti. Rather, they are aspects

of speculative knowledge (jnana) and fruitive activities (karma)

respectively. There are two types of endeavors: those that are

favorable, and those that are unfavorable. Only favorable activities

are considered to be devotional service.

 

The word anukulyena means the tendency to be favorably disposed

towards Krishna. This tendency has some connection with

the material world during the period of devotional practice

(sadhana-kala), but in the liberated stage (siddha-kala) it is utterly

pure, free from any connection with the material world. The characteristics

of bhakti are the same in both these stages. Therefore,

the intrinsic characteristics of bhakti are endeavors for the cultivation

of Krishna consciousness performed with favorable sentiments.

While we are discussing the intrinsic characteristics (svarupalakshana)

of bhakti, it is also necessary to describe its extrinsic characteristics

(tatastha-lakshana). Srila Rupa Gosvami has explained

that there are two tatastha-lakshana. The first is having no other

desires, and the second is freedom from the covering of jnana,

karma and other such endeavors. Any ambition other than the desire

for progress in bhakti goes against bhakti, and comes in the

category of other desires. ***Jnana, karma, yoga and renunciation are

said to be antagonistic to bhakti when they are strong enough to

cover the heart*** Therefore, pure bhakti may be described as the

cultivation of activities that are favorably disposed to Sri Krishna,

free from both the above antagonistic characteristics....

 

taken from Jaiva Dharma by Bhaktivinoda

Hmmmm... we have a resteraunt in town called Grateful. Strictly vegan. Wonder if it's connected somehow.

This is the teacher Theist, David Steindl-Rast O.S.B...I am not a follower of his totally, but do appreciate his views very much (a nice compliment to a devotional life). He often speaks in conferences with other people about modern consciousness research - Esalen Institute, Noetic Science, places like that..

<embed src="