Apep

Picture Of Lord Murugan (Click on picture to have a better view). If you need some songs/Prayers (Gonna get some serious vibrations) of Lord Murugan, let me know I got heaps.

Thank You I will call more on you if I have more questions about this deity.

Some information on Lord Murugan,

Kali Yuga, the age indicating the period of darkness and degeneration commenced about 3100 BC. Many Hindus believe that the presiding deity of this yugam [period] is LORD MURUGAN [Kali Yuga Varathan], whose VEL that symbolises the spear of victory, will eventually restore peace and harmony, destroying arrogance, violence and injustice. The worship of LORD MURUGAN goes back to the pre-Christian era, and forms an important facet in the religious life of Hindus.

LORD MURUGAN, although regarded as the second son of Siva, and the younger brother of Ganesha, is infact an Avatara of Lord Siva. All incarnations are manifestations of the One Supreme Lord. Lord Subrahmanya and Lord Krishna are one. Lord Krishna says in the Gita, "Senaninam Aharn Skandah,Of the Generals, I am Skanda". The Lord manifests Himself from time to time in various names and forms for establishing Dharma and punishing the wicked. Lord Subrahmanya is a ray born of the Chaitanya of Lord Siva. He is the energy of Lord Siva. Valli and Deivayani are His two Divine consorts. They represent the Iccha Shakti and the Kriya Shakti of the Lord. He is a Pratyaksha Devata in this Kali Yuga, like Hanuman. He bestows on His devotees material and spiritual prosperity and success in all their undertakings, even at the slightest devotion shown to Him. He is worshipped much in South India and Sri Lanka. Guha, Muruga, Kumaresa, Karttikeya, Shanmukha (he who has six faces), Subrahmanya, Skanda, Velayudha (he who wears the Spear), Saravanabhava are synonymous terms.

In the above picture, Lord-Subrahmanya holds the Vel or Spear in His hand, just as Lord Siva holds the Trident or Trisula. The Vel is an emblem of Power, and indicates that He is the ruler of this Universe. Devotees of Lord Subrahmanya do obeisance to the Vel. His vehicle or Vahana is the peacock: this is by way of representation that he has entirely conquered pride, egoism, vanity. There is a cobra under His Feet: this is to indicate that He is absolutely fearless, immortal and wise. Valli is on His one side, Deivayanai is on the other. Sometimes He stands alone with the Vel. He is then called by the name of Dandapani. This represents His Nirguna aspect which is free from Maya.

The six heads represent the six rays or the six attributes viz. Jnana (wisdom), Vairagya (dispassion), Bala (strength), Kirti (fame), Sree (wealth) and Aishvarya (divine powers). They indicate that He is the source for the four Vedas, Vedangas and the six schools of philosophy; that He has controlled the five Jnana Indriyas and the mind. They denote that He is the Virat Purusha with countless heads. They signify that His head is turned everywhere (Visvatomukha): He is all-pervading. They indicate that He is omnipotent and that He can multiply and assume forms at His will.

Veltrivel Muruga Haro Hara

 

So Karttikeya is the son of Shiva and is also called Lord Murugan?

Is Karttikeya also Kali as well?

Thank you, Shiv

I think that is indeed possible. However, equally possible is the fact that none of my questions is perceived as relevant or pertinent by you, because you have a present notion (which is not subject to revision) based on your current belief that such a concept did exist.

One person says God incarnated to check the evil of someone or some nation. I know that God checks many evils everyday, without making an appearance. In my mind, if this is the case, then checking anyone's evil cannot be the basic cause of an incarnation. Another person quoted the scripture saying that God incarnated to show mercy to His devotees. I know that God shows mercy on many of his devotees everyday, without having to make an appearance. In my mind, then, showing mercy on His devotees cannot be the basic cause of incarnation. Another person says that God incarnates as human being to be a role model for ordinary human beings. However, firstly, the incarnation under consideration in that post was not one of a human form; secondly, if God incarnates as a human being with all his absolute powers and attributes, how could a man with godly powers be a role model for fallible and imperfect human beings.

Another person says, because God can do anythiing with or without making an appearance, therefore He could have controlled some things without making an appearance, while for others He made an appearance. The fact is that the overwhelming principle in the running of this world is that God does not make an appearance, as far as our direct knowledge is concerned. If that were not the case, there would have been no problem to accept anything about God's appearance in any age, for any reason. However, we know that if God is running the affairs of this world on the general principle of remaining hidden, then God's absolute wisdom would require that the principle be excepted only under clear circumstances which require that exception. This may indeed be because of my limited and obscured vision.

If someone were to tell you that you should believe that the sun came out from the west one day. Would you just believe it because someone told you so? Would it be sufficient for him to say that you must believe it merely on the basis that because God can do it, He did it? You would find it hard to believe because you find it clearly against the physical laws of God, according to which this solar system is running. I am facing the same problem in accepting the concept of incarnation. It is clearly against the general physical laws, on which this universe is running (in my mind, at least).

You may term my questions to be a result only of a mind clouded under some preconceived ideas. You have a right to do so. Just as much as I have a right to post my questions here. Please bear in mind that even if I do not find the evidence presented so far to be sufficient for me to accept that God incarnated in a physical form, yet I respect your belief and would refrain, to the best of my abilities, to say anything that may sound disrespectful. If you do not find my questions to be coming from an honest mind, you have the right to not answer them.

Best regards and thank you.

You are trying to use the limited human mind to understand the higher divinity.

Yours as well as my perception is not perfect.

Therefore how can a human being with a limited mind understand everything about divinity?

The divinity who is the closest thing to perfection.

We need to bring greater focus on educating the Hindu children. There is so much emphasis on the education of children in other religions, which is probably why they thrive in America. One of my biggest regrets is that my parents basically gave up their Hindu faith after their marriage fell apart, and after that, I received no Hindu education whatsoever. God was never even mentioned in passing in my household.

It’s really been a battle for me to teach myself Hinduism because even though I go to a public school, my teachers overtly teach Christianity. They lay out the beliefs of Christianity and surround us with literature about its history everyday. My history teacher just showed a film that was on the Vatican’s list of the top ten movies for the Catholic faith. She mentioned the movie Gandhi in passing, and I asked her if we could watch it. The response – “Maybe”.

It’s also tough when many of my friends are in Catholic school, and most of my other friends are conservative Christians. Any other thoughts on the education of Hindu children?

Ekam sat vipra bahuda vadanti.

Where do you live? Here in America they are not supposed to have religion and education together.

Keep chatting here and you will learn alot about Hinduism.

There have been a lot of others too. Some of the Indian web sites should be maintaing long lists. Please do a google search. You should find details on everyone starting from the buddhist times to the present day Osho and Sai Baba.

Wikipedia may have a nice list too. Curiously, I was in Shanghai recently and discovered Wikipedia is blocked in Shanghai. Strange...

Cheers

The Communist Chinese block many things.

I will have to search for other Indian philosophers as well.

These things are rare in India, but then again with a country that has 1 billion people and many isolated and backwards villages, tribals, etc., these things do occur once in a while. Usually it is superstition, so it will occur in those communities who believe in this things, most notably the adivasi tribals.

Is witchcraft considered evil in India? Or is it just a bunch who is extemely superstitious in a bad way?

I hope you don't mind my curiosity.

Yes, I would disagree as the Shiva Gita is not even a commonly accepted scripture among any traditional Vedanta school. The Bhagavad Gita on the other hand is universally acknowledge as infallible, on par with shruti, by all schools of Vedantic thought.

There is also a Ganesha Gita, where all 700 verse of the Gita have been taken and the words "sri bhagavan uvaca" have been replaced with "sri ganeshovaca". There is no limit to the number of manufactured scriptures in Hinduism. Thus one relies on parampara, sampradaya and traditional lineages to identify the authenticity of a sciptural text.

Why is the Shiva Gita not accepted?

My attempts at spiritual understanding so far been been more stumbling and bumbling around than anything else. Trying to force myself into believing this and believing that. Finally though I have stumbled (or been lead) into an approach that is working for me for now.

I no longer look for the Divine scriptures. I look for the Divine within the scriptures. And that I won't recognize until the Lord reveals it to me. Until then I remain ignorant. It really is that simple for me now and I like simple. If He chooses to reveal Himself to me more through this book than that book I will look for Him there.

I just have this feeling that if I can ever become genuinely fully open to His presence everything from the Gita to nature herself will be seen as the Holy Writ that reveals the Lord.

Until then it's just a thought.

Sounds like a good approach.

I will find a link where you can create your own Hindu calendar. A good one for Vaishnava festivals is this one:

I haven't found one yet for other Hindu festivals, but if someone here has a link please post it.

It should be noted that Hindu calendars are calculated based on sunrise and sunset, so the date of a festival may change depending on the city you live in. That's why you need to calculate the calendar for your particular city. The changes in dates are usually a maximum of a day off.

I live in United States central time. Does that information help?

Shivaratri,Holikatsava,Kama Dahana,Kartik Purnima are the only festivals I am interested in about dates.

Devi is a generic word that refers to the feminine goddess associated with Shiva. There are always pairs, one shakti (feminine goddess) and one shiva. The original form of Devi is called by various names, sometimes as Durga, sometimes as Rajarajeswari. The name isn't so important, but the concept is what is important. Devi has an original form that is linked to Shiva's original form. As Lord Shiva expands into thousands and thousands of other forms (with different qualities and aspects), simultaneously Devi also expands to accompany him. There are 10 main expansions of Devi, known as the dasha mahavidyas. All of these Expansions are on the side of the material creation, dealing with creation and destruction. Durga is the imediate source of material creation, and Shiva is the immediate cause of life in the material world (in his form as Shambu). Beyond this is Maha Vishnu who creates the material universes by His breathing out.

Technically Mother Earth (Prithvi Devi, or Bhumi Devi) is Lakshmi, the consort of Vishnu. Durga is the "Nature", as opposed to the "Earth".

Parvathi is an expansion of Durga. Parvathi means "daughter of the mountain". It was one lila Devi performed where she took birth as the daughter of Himavan (Himalayas) and Lord Shiva married her.

I see. This makes sense to me now. My next question would be what is the true meaning of Parvati as Shiva's wife?

I know you went into it briefly ,could you explain a bit more to me?

I would very much appreciate it.

There are two branches of Shaivism. One is the devotional path that accepts Lord Shiva's eternal personal existence. The goal of these devotees is to attain the abode of Shiva known as Kailasha and serve Lord Shiva there. The other school wants to merge into Shiva and become one with the nondual absolute, which they identify as the source of Shiva.

I wish to attain the abode to serve Shiva.

Yama is not a deity that anyone really worships. Neither does he ask you to worship him. He is listed as one of the twelve mahajanas (great devotees of Vishnu), and as such is pleased with those who worship Narayana. There are a few small temples to Yama scattered throughout India, but very, very few.

Yama incarnated as Vidura during the Mahabharata war. Vidura is famous as a staunch devotee of Lord Krishna.

Where are these temples located? Are there any priests in these temples?

I see death as a symbolic form in this life. I see Yama as the act of our transcending that is why I asked about Yama.

He's much more than just the God of war. He's the one I called Kumara in the other thread. He is called by many names: Karttikeya, Skanda, Sanat-Kumara, Murugan, Subrahmanya, Shanmukha. He's the God of the hills, God of southern Indian (Tamil) culture, he is the one that helps the yogi across to the far shore, freedom from samsara (in this capacity he is often thought of as an incarnation of Shiva).

Here's the Murugan Bhakti super site http://murugan.org/ (11 Skanda-Kumara sites combined), a weath of information.

So Karttikeya is Kumara the son of Shiva? Could you tell me more.

Mabey this will help alittle:

<TABLE><CAPTION>Solar Months of the Indian Religious Calendar</CAPTION><TBODY><TR><TD></TD><TD>Sun's Longitude</TD><TD>Approx. Duration</TD><TD>Approx. Greg. Date</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD>deg min</TD><TD>d</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#c5c6a9 background="http://mail.webexhibits.org/calendars/i/bg2.jpg"><TD>1. Vaisakha</TD><TD>23 15</TD><TD>30.9</TD><TD>Apr. 13</TD></TR><TR><TD>2. Jyestha</TD><TD>53 15</TD><TD>31.3</TD><TD>May 14</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#c5c6a9 background="http://mail.webexhibits.org/calendars/i/bg2.jpg"><TD>3. Asadha</TD><TD>83 15</TD><TD>31.5</TD><TD>June 14</TD></TR><TR><TD>4. Sravana</TD><TD>113 15</TD><TD>31.4</TD><TD>July 16</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#c5c6a9 background="http://mail.webexhibits.org/calendars/i/bg2.jpg"><TD>5. Bhadrapada</TD><TD>143 15</TD><TD>31.0</TD><TD>Aug. 16</TD></TR><TR><TD>6. Asvina</TD><TD>173 15</TD><TD>30.5</TD><TD>Sept. 16</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#c5c6a9 background="http://mail.webexhibits.org/calendars/i/bg2.jpg"><TD>7. Kartika</TD><TD>203 15</TD><TD>30.0</TD><TD>Oct. 17</TD></TR><TR><TD>8. Margasirsa</TD><TD>233 15</TD><TD>29.6</TD><TD>Nov. 16</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#c5c6a9 background="http://mail.webexhibits.org/calendars/i/bg2.jpg"><TD>9. Pausa</TD><TD>263 15</TD><TD>29.4</TD><TD>Dec. 15</TD></TR><TR><TD>10. Magha</TD><TD>293 15</TD><TD>29.5</TD><TD>Jan. 14</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#c5c6a9 background="http://mail.webexhibits.org/calendars/i/bg2.jpg"><TD>11. Phalgura</TD><TD>323 15</TD><TD>29.9</TD><TD>Feb. 12</TD></TR><TR><TD>12. Caitra</TD><TD>353 15</TD><TD>30.3</TD><TD>Mar. 14</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

ThankYou very much.

Good understanding is a prerequisite for dharma. Money can only fulfil your material needs/desires. It can never buy dharma for you.

Dharma can only be cultivated through understanding. It is your spiritual need... Ofcourse, if you understand!

Indeed this is true.

True wisdom has to be earned through vigourous amounts of time and studying. Not to mention alot of soul searching as well.

There appears to be a flawed movement in the world today that says if you throw money and wealth at a problem things will get better. This can definately not be the truth. Infact it is the opposite thing from the truth.

Thank you, my brother Pankaja_Dasa,

I am not qualified to answer these questions. I have addressed the same questions to Muslims and Christians. If I were to get a satisfactory answer, I would let you know. But, obviously, this forum would not be a good place for that. Don't you agree?

My brother, I have no intention of debating an issue I know nothing of. I am asking you about the basis of your belief in the scriptures and in response you tell me that the Qur'an does not mention reincarnation of the soul. Ok, so it doesn't. But my question remains unanswered. What is the basis of your believing any of your scriptures to be divine?

 

Now this is really interesting. What exactly are you answering? Does your quote give the answer to the question 'what is the basis of believing that your scripture is divine'?

Thank you.

All the spiritual writings of man are inspirations of the divine to find the divine in ourselves. To find find inspiration or meaning in life. To find that center and balance of ourselves that we all desire to have. To find divine wisdom in the Gods.

You are asking a question that can not be answered. You are asking of divine proof , but why does the divine need to proove itself?

Why does the divine need to prove itself to me or to you?

Am I right to assume there is a cultural invasion of Islam in India? I have heard this many times.

It was always my thought that the muslims lived in Pakistan away from India. Why do they come to India?

Also I see no Indians invading Pakistan culturally, again I ask why do they keep coming to India?

Forgive my ignorance on the subject I am relatively new to the subject.

Anyone want to help answer my question?

The Gods exist without the books of men. Men can see the Gods and their acts everyday if they look hard enough without reading a word.

And a man can feel the divine through his heart without even knowing a guru.

The first time I felt the divinity it was by myself secluded in nature with a gentle breeze of wind upon my face.

The words of wisdom of the vedas and gitas are great. They are the great teachings of us all. We should revere them.

We must remember though that the power of the Gods by themselves is more wiser.

Well, if you talk about Christianity at large, remember that it has a great many denominations, many of which are quite hostile to one another. Many denominations hold views that directly conflict with other denominations. Take Catholicism as an example. Catholics believe in prayer to the Virgin Mary and the saints for intercession and also generally use statues/idols to aid prayer (at least more so than other denominations). This is considered unbiblical in other branches of Christianity. Some Christians belief in salvation through faith alone and others believe in salvation through good works. I don't see how so many different conflicting views could've been held or taught by Jesus Christ. Therefore, how could all of the teachings of Christianity be based on the teachings of Christ? Yes, it seems to me that the teachings of Christianity are largely based on the churches that have been established and evangelization.

Regardless of their different beliefs they are all under the influence of the main teachings of the bible which all of them follow. All denominations say that non-believers goes to hell and the true believers of Christ are the only select few who shall see heaven.

This means if you are Christian you will see heaven if you follow the layed out teachings. If you are not Christian then you go to their Christian hell.

Who is the non-believer you may ask? It is the whole world that is not Christian and that includes peaceful Hindus.

Why do people here not see that this religion has no tolerance in it at all. It is a religion of assimilation and destruction of any other opposition in it's wake.

In the bible their God said, " I have not brought peace but a only a sword."

So many great cultures in Europe and all around the world have fell prey to this religion and it's intolerance. The ancient Greeks,Romans,Germanic,Celtic,ancient Egypt and so on fell to these beliefs.

These great cultures were great like the Hindu culture. Hinduism must resist Christianity.

Hinduism at best should ignore Christians and leave Christians to themselves to their own delusions.

I don't want people to take that badly. I am sure there are some nice virtuous individuals who are great people that are Christian. My father is one.

However , even though they may be nice people it does not change anything in the part of the religion they worship.

But, if we are operating under the assumption that the big bang theory is correct, the formation of the Earth was basically simultaneous with the formation of the rest of the universe. (The explosion of one incredibly dense mass creates the universe.)

I like the infinite theory better.

The big bang lacks many things. What caused the big bang? Where did it come from? If it was a mistake or accident what sparked the incident? What form of existence was before the big bang? Was it a state of nothingness or pure energy?

This is my belief:

There is no beginning and there is no ending of the universe. It has always been.

Science says our galaxy was created by many large factors of the cosmic spectrum.

Scientists must realize that time is useless in the scope of the universe.

Time is man made. The universe is not run on time my friend.

The universe is a cycle or circle if you will in all it's existence.

At the heart of every person is their atman, which can be thought of as a slice of God. It is ultimate perfection. Consequently, humans are inherently perfect. They are naturally godly in their actions. The evil in this world is caused by the lower nature of mankind - the part of man that causes him to depart from his inherent perfection. Suffering is necessary because it makes us stronger as humans and leads us to the sublime truth. It is payment for past actions in accordance with the law of karma.

Thank You for this wise post.

So evil is the nature of ignorance inherited in human beings? We cause our own evil?

Am I right?

I know Hinduism is non-dualist but I must ask a question:

Is there a deity which proceeds this ignorance that leads to evil?

What causes evil in the Hindu perspective? Why is there evil this world?

What causes people to be evil in this world? Is evil a force?

Well, Here is a summarized version of the Padma Purana http://www.geocities.com/absolut_ism/padmapurana.htm (I don't know if it contains Shiva-Gita or not).

Here's the Shiva Samhita http://www.geocities.com/absolut_ism/sivasamhita.htm

And a couple more from that site:

Summarized Linga Purana http://www.geocities.com/absolut_ism/lingapurana.htm

Shiva Sutras http://www.geocities.com/absolut_ism/sivasutra.htm

Rudra Gita http://www.geocities.com/absolut_ism/rudragita.htm

Thank You very much! This really makes my day good.

Is it ok to worship the God Yama the Lord of Death? I have also heard he is a God of justice as well.

Is there temples to the God Yama? Is there sects who worship Yama?

Is he just the God of war who defends the Gods or does he defend the followers of the Gods as well?