theist

"Retired sannyasi". LOL Now there is one for ya. Sannyasa means one is dead to civil society...dead to material life. So a retired sannyasi can only mean one has once again become alive to civil society and material life in other words fallen from sannyasi to vantasi. I am real skeptical about all this sannyasa anyway. It was a nice try here in the west but it just hasn't worked.

Yeah that's sounds good. My allegiance is to the Gaudiya Vaisnava vision of God. I may not to everything your gurus teach but on the higher transcendental things like the intimate rasa's available with Krsna the teachings are astoundingly beautiful. Unfortunately I am not at a level where I can really take advantage of such teaching yet but the future looks bright as long as I can stay free of sectarianism and party spirit. First I need to learn to appreciate the presence of the Lord within myself and others from the aomedba to the sinner and the saint and build from there. Wars over gurus will only cripple me more than I already am and perhaps even stop all progress so I'm electing to hang loose on that one.

Yes. let's keep our fingers and toes crossed (western mudras for good luck) and hope they don't show up... at least for awhile.

It should be noted that just as I do not consider myself a Vaisnava I do not consider the majority of these I AM godists as true Advaitins. Those who are on the beginning levels of either path and then pretend to be very advanced and promote themselves as special and worthy of worship either as fake vaisnava gurus(and we know their names) or fake advaitins like Sai Baba, Rajneesh/Osho, Meher Baba, Guru Maharaja ji and the like are deserving of public scorn because they are prominent and cheating the public. They are frauds and there is no sincerity in them. I draw a distinction between them and someone like Paramahamsa Yogananda and his teacher Sri Yuktesvar for example. I criticize Yogananda's advaita conclusions but I in no way consider him a scam artist like some of the rest (including from vaisnava traditions). This works for me.

I really like this vision of things. Makes so much sense to me. Why not place all our faith on the Supreme Lord as the eternal Guru who never falls down. He will then be pleased to show us His manifestation on earth in the form of the purified devotee to aid in our advancement. This whole thing has gotten turned around and is upside down, the cart before the horse etc. We think we need guru to find krsna as a starting point when actually we need the Grace of krsna to find guru. Why aren't individuals instructed to pray to the Lord in the heart from day one? Instead we hear "Oh that is for advanced devotees, first you have to find a embodied guru, become his slave, and then the Lord in the heart will guide you." This is bogus. The Gita clearly tells us the Lord in the heart is directing everyone already and He is approachable by 4 classes of people...not just the advanced. Everyone can and should pray directly to the Lord for guidance and have faith that He hears us and will help us. This direct relationship continues to the point of full God realization where Supersoul in the heart may be revealed as the two armed Krsna form according to your rasa but there is no way to the two armed form by side-stepping Paramatma. Birth after birth it is the Lord in our hearts who is the guru who stays with us. Why do we ignore Him. I prefer membership in another camp then those listed above... the camp of the unaffiliated. Kula pavana is absolutely correct. All these this guru over that guru "debates" and wars is an incredible disturbance.

This is such a bogus statement. No one that considers bhakti as a means to merge into Brahman is a Vaisnava. You notice your own illusions created by your mind. I don't hate advaitins. I do however want to strongly as possible challenge advaita as well as voidism and gross materialism. Until you understand this we have nothing to discuss. I am burned out on this one.

Exactly, but not just Iskcon. Caitya-guru is the common guru for all living entities. More specifically for the GM devotees they can all agree Lord Caitanya is the universal guru. Why go beyond this when meeting and discussing Krsna? I think it stems from a desire to argue and be divisive.

What you are saying is seriously flawed for the most obvious of reasons. Without the Sun globe there would be no sun particles. Why have you not mentioned the Sun globe? The sun particles can tell other sun particles that they are also sun particles and have emanated from the same sun so in that way they are one but if any one particle claims to be the whole then that poor particle is quite foolish indeed. Lord Caitanya taught the simulataneous oneness and differnce between the particles and the whole. Simultaneous being the operative word.

You speak for yourself. YOU have no way of knowing. Those that take knowledge from the proper source have the perfect way of knowing. Now people will argue that they have the proper source and their opponents will argue that they have the proper source. No one can impose their beliefs on another. But that does not mean one of them cannot be correct.

That would include your statement here. So I agree your statement has zilch value but I also know you speak for yourself.

No. Christianity is following the teaching of Christ not Paul. Krsna consciousness is not a religion as you are using referring to it. Krsna consciousness is being conscious of Krsna within yourself, within others and everything else. If you are looking for a particular focal point for the present Hare Krsna movement then I would suggest you look to Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Srila Prabhupada was not a separtist and rightly saw himself and his work as advancing Mahaprabhu's movement which he inherited from his gurudeva Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. There are also other branches growing from the tree of Mahaprabhu who are not directly connected to Srila Prabhupada such as disciples of other disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta. And other branches as well. All are connected to Mahaprabhu's tree and should be respected as such. Mahaprabhu is the universal guru of the Hare Krsna movement.

So is the material world. Krsna consciousness is the whole truth. Monism ignores Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead therefore monism should be ignored.

Tradition. For some of us the important thing is the truth and not what is traditional.

Those that may object to the word created seeing in it some time influence can still use the word caused. Krsna is known as the Cause of all causes and is the only causeless being. We all have a cause...Him.

Use the Balarama font converter. http://www.bvml.org/books/fonts/convertor.html

We the small souls have always existed but that does not mean we had no source. We are caused by Krsna and our existence continues on the good graces of His will. The idea that the soul is eternal must be seen along with it's dependence on the existence and will of the Supreme Soul. The jiva is never fully independent at any stage conditioned or liberated.

Sir Isaac Newton Believed in Intelligent Design "This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton Isacc Newton was a very devote Christian theist, alchemist and scientist who understood there is no real separation between science and God consciousness.

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To look at it from another perspective religion can be seen as the end of animal life and the beginning of human life.

That's ok. Glad you have a good excuse for the goofy pic.

Really the issue is not advaitins it is advaita. Every soul is equally part of Krsna. What is not equal are the philosphies.

Yeah it's ok. Turned into a sleepy little burg. Haven't had a riot in a long time. Fine with me I'm too old now for a good ruckus to move my blood.

I wasn't picking on him. It was word play. "Why ask why?" ..Oh well

I could have concluded that he found a higher path and goal. The resentment idea comes strictly from you. That is why I said I don't consider you or anybody else to tell me that Srila Prabhupada was motivated by some mundane negative emotion like resentment. The letter was one of general interest to the topic and not to persuade you of anything.

I try to stay away from attempts at analyzing Srila Prabhupada in the way you have brought up. Stating that he "deeply resented Gandhi as a person" for example. I don't think you are qualified to make such a statement. As far as Bose goes yes he supported the nazi's who were at war with britain because the more they had to worry about the nazi's the less likely it would become that they would want to hold onto India. Bose's willingness to enage in active warfare with Britain is rarely credit for driving them to give up India with all the credit going to the pacifist Gandhi. Prabhupada makes a wider point using this example to show that sometimes the effects of armed struggle are necessary. This is as far as I will go in this area concerning Srila Prabhupada. Here is a letter he wrote to Gandhi in '47 that many will find interesting. Letter to: Mahatma Gandhi — Cawnpore 12 July, 1947 47-07-12 Mahatma Gandhijee Bhangi Colony New Delhi. Dear Friend Mahatmajee, Please accept my respectful Namaskar. I am your unknown friend but I had to write to you at times and again although you never cared to reply them. I sent you my papers "Back to Godhead" but your secretaries told me that you have very little time to read the letters and much less for reading the magazines. I asked for an interview with you but your busy secretaries never cared to reply this. Anyway as I am your very old friend although unknown to you I am again writing to you in order to bring you to the rightful position deserved by you. As a sincere friend I must not deviate from my duty towards a friend like your good self. I tell you as a sincere friend that you must immediately retire from active politics if you do not desire to die an inglorious death. You have 125 years to live as you have desired to live but you if you die an inglorious death it is no worth. The honour and prestige that you have obtained during the course of you present life time, were not possible to be obtained by any one else within the living memory. But you must know that all these honours and prestiges were false in as much as they were created by the Illusory Energy of Godhead called the maya. By this falsity I do not mean to say that your so many friends were false to you nor you were false to them. By this falsity I mean illusion or in other words the false friendship and honours obtained thereby were but creation of maya and therefore they are always temporary or false as you may call it. But none of you neither your friends nor yourself knew this truth. Now by the Grace of God that illusion is going to be cleared and thus your faithful friends like Acarya Kripalini and others are accusing you for your inability at the present moment to give them any practical programme of work as you happened to give them during your glorious days of non-co-operation movement. So you are also in a plight to find out a proper solution for the present political tangle created by your opponents. You should therefore take a note of warning from your insignificant friend like me, that unless you retire timely from politics and engage yourself cent per cent in the preaching work of Bhagavad-gita, which is the real function of the Mahatmas, you shall have to meet with such inglorious deaths as Mussolini, Hitlers, Tojos, Churchills or Lloyd Georges met with. You can very easily understand as to how some of your political enemies in the garb of friends (both Indian and English) have deliberately cheated you and have broken your heart by doing the same mischief for which you have struggled so hard for so many years. You wanted chiefly Hindu-Moslem unity in India and they have tactfully managed to undo your work, by creation of the Pakistan and India separately. You wanted freedom for India but they have given permanent dependence of India. You wanted to do something for the upliftment of the position of the bhangis but they are still rotting as bhangis even though you are living in the bhangi colony. They are all therefore illusions and when these things will be presented to you as they are, you must consider them as God-sent. God has favored you by dissipating the illusion you were hovering in, and by the same illusion you were, nursing those ideas as Truth(?). You must know that you are in the relative world which is called by the sages as Dvaita i.e. dual- and nothing is absolute here. Your Ahimsa is always followed by Himsa as the light is followed by darkness or the father is followed by the son. Nothing is absolute truth in this dual world. You did not know this neither you ever cared to know this from the right sources and therefore all your attempts to create unity were followed by disunity and Ahimsa. Ahimsa was followed by Himsa. But it is better late than never. You must know now something about the Absolute Truth. The Truth with which you have been experimenting so long is relative. The relative truths are creations of the daivi maya qualified by the three modes of Nature. They are all insurmountable as is explained in the Bhagavad-gita (7.14). The Absolute Truth is the Absolute Godhead. In the Katha Upanisad it is ordered that one must approach the bona fide Guru who is not only well versed in all the scriptures of the world but is also the realized soul in Brahman the Absolute—in order to learn the science of Absolute Truth. So also it is instructed in the Bhagavad-gita as follows:— tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya upadeksyanti tad jnanam jnaninas tattvadarsinah (Bg. 4.34) But I know that you never underwent such transcendental training except some severe penances which you invented for your purpose as you have invented so many things in the course of experimenting with the relative truths. You might have easily avoided them if you had approached the Guru as abovementioned. But your sincere efforts to attain some Godly qualities by austerities etc surely have raised you to some higher position which you can better utilize for the purpose of the Absolute Truth. If you, however, remain satisfied with such temporary position only and do not try to know the Absolute Truth, then surely you are to fall down from the artificially exalted position under the laws of Nature. But if you really want to approach the Absolute Truth and want to do some real good to the people in general all over the world, which shall include your ideas of unity, peace and non-violence, then you must give up the rotten politics immediately and rise up for the preaching work of the philosophy and religion of "Bhagavad-gita'' without offering unnecessary and dogmatic interpretations on them. I had occasionally discussed this subject in my paper "Back to Godhead'' and a leaf from the same is enclosed herewith for your reference. I would only request you to retire from politics at least for a month only and let us have discussion on the Bhagavad-gita. I am sure, thereby, that you shall get a new light from the result of such discussions not only for your benefit but for the benefit of the world at large—as I know that you are sincere, honest and moralist. Awaiting your early reply with interest. Yours sincerely, Abhay Charan De. Enclosure—one leaf from Back to Godhead