theist

It was there last night. You click on their links link and there click on what is called "the best homosexual site on the web". What comes up is Xplicit pictures of fags doing the oral sex thing.

Thinking they may remove that link after seeing this thread exposing them I copied their link page for proof.

I was going to post it but thought I would get JNdasji"s permission first. It's only redeeming value is in showing the motives of these people against Lord Caitanya's mission.

To publicly display and try to mix hardcore gay sex with Prabhupada I find really way too much. I would hope Prabhupada's disciples would also be outraged. How can this be tolerated.

I would also be pissed off if it were a hardcore hetero sex site.

Yes test the spirit. That means to test the words and teachings of the spirit. Against what? Against Prabhupada's books. What else to we have. We know that Prabhupada wouldn't spend so much time writing all those books just to contradict them in a conversation at the very end. Nor would he come back and channel some message that speaks against what he wrote.

It always comes back to his books.

Then the question arises "Are they still his books?"

His books. That's where the focus must be.

See, that position sounds like the disappearing or the absorbed acarya idea. I think some are more empowered and some less altough they may all be situated on the absolute plane. I really can't speak to Dhira Govinda's position as I'm not familiar with it yet. But he is correct in calling Prabhupada prominent. If he has a certain slant on that word that I'm unaware of that is then another thing.

Here is the dictionary meaning to prominent.

1 : standing out or projecting beyond a surface or line : PROTUBERANT

2 a : readily noticeable : CONSPICUOUS b : widely and popularly known : LEADING

synonym see NOTICEABLE

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Sorry for all the bugs. Normally I go back and edit them out but I am tired of that.

I'll just stop copying from vedabase and refer instead.

Murari Gupta's mind could not be turned from his love for Lord Ramachandra even at the enticment of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. This pleased Mahaprabhu very much.

Madhya 15.137 - Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu then embraced Muräri Gupta and began to speak about his firm faith in devotional service. This was heard by all the devotees.

Madhya 15.138 - Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu said, “Previously I induced Muräri Gupta again and again to be allured by Lord Kåñëa. I said to him, ‘My dear Gupta, Lord Çré Kåñëa, Vrajendra- kumära, is the supreme sweetness.

Madhya 15.139 - “‘Kåñëa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the origin of all incarnations and the source of everything. He is pure transcendental love itself, and He is the reservoir of all pleasure.

Madhya 15.140 - “‘Kåñëa is the reservoir of all transcendental qualities. He is like a mine of gems. He is expert at everything, very intelligent and sober, and He is the summit of all transcendental humors.

Madhya 15.141 - “‘His character is very sweet, and His pastimes are melodious. He is expert in intelligence, and thus He enjoys all His pastimes and mellows.’

Madhya 15.142 - “I then requested Muräri Gupta, ‘Worship Kåñëa and take shelter of Him. But for His service, nothing appeals to the mind.’

Madhya 15.143 - “In this way, he heard from Me again and again. By My influence, his mind was a little converted.

Madhya 15.144 - “Muräri Gupta then replied, ‘I am Your servant and Your order- carrier. I have no independent existence.’

Madhya 15.145 - “After this, Muräri Gupta went home and spent the whole night thinking how he would have to give up the association of Raghunätha, Lord Rämacandra. Thus he was overwhelmed.

Madhya 15.146 - “Muräri Gupta then began to pray at the lotus feet of Lord Rämacandra. He prayed that death would come that night because it was not possible for him to give up the service of the lotus feet of Raghunätha.

Madhya 15.147 - “Thus Muräri Gupta cried the entire night. There was no rest for his mind; therefore he could not sleep but stayed awake the entire night.

Madhya 15.148 - “In the morning Muräri Gupta came to see Me. Catching hold of My feet and crying, he submitted an appeal.

Madhya 15.149 - “Muräri Gupta said, ‘I have sold my head unto the lotus feet of Raghunätha. I cannot withdraw my head, for that would give me too much pain.

Madhya 15.150 - “‘It is not possible for me to give up the service of Raghunätha’s lotus feet. At the same time, if I do not do so I shall break Your order. What can I do?’Madhya 15.151 - “In this way Muräri Gupta appealed to Me, saying, ‘You are all- merciful, so kindly grant me this mercy: Let me die before You so that all my doubts will be finished.’

Madhya 15.152 - “Hearing this, I became very happy. I then raised Muräri Gupta and embraced him.

Madhya 15.153 - “I said to him, ‘All glories to you, Muräri Gupta! Your method of worship is very firmly fixed—so much so that even upon My request your mind did not turn.

Madhya 15.154 - “‘The servitor must have love and affection for the lotus feet of the Lord exactly like this. Even if the Lord wants separation, a devotee cannot abandon the shelter of His lotus feet.

Madhya 15.155 - “‘Just to test your firm faith in your Lord, I requested you again and again to change your worship from Lord Rämacandra to Kåñëa.’

Madhya 15.156 - “In this way, I congratulated Muräri Gupta, saying, ‘Indeed, you are the incarnation of Hanumän. Consequently you are the eternal servant of Lord Rämacandra. Why should you give up the worship of Lord Rämacandra and His lotus feet?’”

Madhya 15.157 - Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu continued, “I accept this Muräri Gupta as My life and soul. When I hear of his humility, it perturbs My very life.”

While lurking at another devotee forum a thred on galva came up in reference to all the articles on that subject lately.

Someone mentioned that they had complained to VNN for running them and that galva had links to hardcore homosex web sites on their site.

Its true they do. Imagine all this talk of krsna consciousness mixed in with hardcore homosex links.

Do you still think you want their version of a "gay friendly temple"?

So Ruptor you put it up. It's great, easy to use. A nice resource for refering people to from different sites, and for ourselves as well.

Srila Prabhupada never finished the verse by verse for the tenth canto. I'm not sure exactly where his disciples took over though.

Hare Krsna

Does anyone doubt that Srila Prabhupada can give one guidance? If gurus are falling left and right, is it wrong to ask the remaining initiating gurus to please let their disciples put only Srila Prabhupada in their altars? A humble guru would deferred that worship to Srila Prabhupada. Does anyone doubt that Srila Prabhupada has the potency to take one back to Godhead (even the ones that he did not formally initiate)?

 

 

It makes sense that Srila Prabhupada's picture be on the altar inside his ISKCON temples. If someone(pujari) is uncomfortable with that then let them make their own altar outside of an ISKCON temple. No problem.

But if they desire to place their guru's picture on their own altars why should that be discouraged? It may be that Krsna is revealing Himself more through Prabhupada's disciple than directly through Prabhupada. Why not? That would please Prabhupada very much to see his disciple has become empowered to that degree. Truth is, that was the point of his preaching.

Now the implication is that if the guru allows this then he must not be humble. Like when Prabhupada allowed himself to be called Prabhupada his godbrothers took that as arrogance against Bhaktisiddhanta. Should we all make the same mistake? Have we learned nothing about this after so many years?

The problem is when they try to merge their disciples in with ISKCON these conflicts arise.

To me the answer looks very simple. If the new disciple lives in ISKCON when worshiping at the main altar or for public guru puja the focus is exclusively Srila Prabhupada. He should not be hassaled however if he makes some simple personal arrangement on his own for offering directly to his other or even main guru.

If he doesn't like this then he can live outside in his own arrangement and should be allowed to work with ISKCON on their preaching functions etc.

To cooperate doesn't mean to give up individuality or one's independence entirely. It means we make allowance for and tolerate those differences.

People have to learn to mind their own business on this guru issue and trust that Supersoul has it under His control. I mean if you don't believe that Supersoul is in control then you shouldn't be getting initiated or especially giving so-called initiation in the first place.

Don't preach your individual guru, preach universal guru, Krsna. Leave all further details to Him. Anything else smacks of faithlessness. This quarrel is going on now decade after decade because people don't really believe that Supersoul exists or that He will act.

Sorry to say this but it is a sign of atheism. Irrespective of all the theistic philosophical concepts being brandied about.

Just trust Krsna. By His grace one gets guru.

Hare Krsna

shiva, your example of guru as the wire and God as the electrical current I don't think conveys the real understanding.Guru IS also the current along with being the conduit.

The way I see it is the guru IS also God, but servitor God. Krsna is there and the devotee is there in and as the same person simultaneously.

This allows for variations in guru's potency and mood while still remaining on the transendental plane.

I am not sure if I conveyed that idea very clearly. Basic oneness and difference.

Thanks for the 'link'. I'll check it out.

The reporter was blackbodied, and so they ignored his fabrications and plagerism in the name of diversity. The New York Times can't be trusted. In fact no one or any news corp. can be trusted. Never trust anyone who is not in control of their senses.

Some may lie more, some less, but don't blindly trust any news source.

I haven't read the book and am not fit to analyize it anyway. But how is he using the term prominent link? Are there not some acaryas in a parampara that are more prominent than others? That doesn't mean they are the only links.

He didn't title his book the last link afterall.

What are the main points that he makes?

also the lucid dreaming is an interesting technique but it may not be necessary to spend much time on it. What ever does not come naturally from the chanting we really may not need.

Hare Krsna

Guest, finding a mentor is always good advice no matter what the field, what to speak of this trascendental subject matter.

You know you don't have to even make such an either/or decision as the one you decribed. The answer to these questions of rasa with the Lord will arise naturally in time through the chanting of the Hare Krsna maha-mantra. There you will also find both the name Krsna and Rama. You may want to just chant and absorb yourself in hearing the pastimes of Krsna-lila AND Rama-lila and let the Lord reveal the details.

Also have you read the story of Murari Gupta in the Caitanya Caritamrita?

To that glorious soul or souls who have put this up thank you a million times.

Hare Krsna

I have noticed the argument centering around if cow protection is really vedic or not arising alot lately. I often wonder who is behind this question. Animal slaughter profiteers maybe? Muslims? I don't know.

But the arguement is not so important as it might at first seem. The problem of animal slaughter is a current one. It dangers are visible here and now. Rather if you hold some special reverance for the cow or not is besides the point when you look upon the devastation to the environment that is causes and how it directly contributes to food shortages.

From PETA.org Home > Vegetarianism >

Veganism Is Good for the Planet

--

Raising Animals for Meat Ruins the Environment

Going vegetarian is an important way to help India and the Earth.

Every year, the population in India grows by 17 million people. Famine is widespread and increasing as the population rises. According to The Hunger Project, one-third of the world's hungry people live in India. Each animal bred and raised to be killed for meat eats 10 acres' worth of vegetables and cereals. Those 10 acres could feed 100 people for more than one year. World hunger is directly related to the breeding and killing of animals for slaughter. Here are more examples:

An acre of land can 'grow' 165 pounds of beef or 20,000 pounds of potatoes? Harvard nutritionists have estimated that reducing meat production by just 10 percent will free up enough grain and vegetables to feed 60 million people.

Meat production takes a toll on India's water supply as well. It takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce a pound of meat but only 25 gallons to produce a pound of wheat. A totally vegetarian diet requires 300 gallons of water per day, while a meat-based diet requires more than 4,000 gallons of water per day.

The annual water requirement for Al-Kabeer (480,000,000 litres of potable water), an abattoir in Hyderabad, has caused an acute shortage of drinking water in the entire area around the plant, and most villagers have to trek 10 to 15 kilometres a day to obtain water for their homes.

Raising animals for meat is also a major contributor to topsoil depletion since forest land is cleared for cattle-grazing. Loss of trees leads to loss of valuable, nutrient-rich topsoil, increases the risk of flooding and drought and causes climatic imbalances. Loss of topsoil and a drying-out of the land leads to desertification. Already in India, deforestation and desertification can be found over wide areas.

Intensive animal farming and slaughterhouses are major sources of water pollution through blood and animal excreta, which contains nitrates, antibiotics, parasites, heavy metals and pesticides. Totally untreated waste is often dumped into streams, rivers and groundwater. Colonies near Delhi slaughterhouses that depend on handpumps for their drinking water have reported that blood often comes out of the pumps.

The best thing we can do to help end hunger and improve the environment is to go vegetarian!

Yes that is the solution and it has been proposed several times before. So what's the hang up you may ask? I guess one should ask Jayadvaita.

He seems to be occupied with defending himself at the expense of peoples faith in Srila Prabhupada's books.

Perhaps the changes have been so large that he considers it impractical.

This whole obstruvtionist mentality is just beyond belief IMO. Years and decades are passing and this simple solution remains just a thought on the sidelines.

Rather the changes are good or not is not the point. Devotees would like the chance to compare the differences. And a web site with a few justifiable changes is not enough. They should be right there on the same page.

Prabhupada never demanded blind faith so why is Jayadvaita?

Well you can look to any event in the world, large or small, and see that it has some karmic basis. All that we experience is a reaction to a previous cause. What about all the torneados that come in years when they has been no war?

The earthquake in San Francisco in 1989 some say was caused by all the homosexuals (sodomites). God was mad. Others point to built up tension along the fault line.

I question if there is such a thing as collective karma really. When you break it down it all looks individual. Individuals are affected. One man's house gets blown apart while his neighbors is left standing. how would that relate to this war?

The American Presidency is not an aboslute kingship. perhaps you should leave YOUR own cave. Ever here of Congress? The Supreme Court?

You have become blinded by your hatred for one man.

Thanks to everyone posting on this subject for helping to pop my faith in external sense perception.

Very cool post mahaksadas. I felt my mind turning inside out as i read it and tried to follow along. Yes Krsna is the smallest and inside of Krsna is the totality of existence.POP!

I went to the web site shiva and will have to return bit by bit. As I started reading I remembered I don't even know what electromagnetic energy is, same with gravity Avinash.

In fact I can't point to one thing that I really do know. My ignorance seems total. Funny how I get a glimpse of freedom from facing that fact, even if only for a moment.

Its all rather astounding isn't it.

No I think shiva should get the prize. For being so intellectually lazy that he pins all the worlds problems on to one man.

Haribol Mahak,

I sometimes wonder what it would be like to conduct a less clumsy investigation of the atom and other timy things that are buzzing about.

You know, just as spiritual spark and intelligence fly right into an atom and check it out. Electrons and photons and the occasional quark whizzing around. From that perspective it may even seem like slow motion.

I think I picked this up from seeing some old film about physcians being shrunk and injected into the blood stream. What a way to get a prognosis.

Interesting dream guest. I certainly can't analyze it and if it were me I would be wary of anyone who claimed to know exactly what it meant,including me. Remember this dream is yours and you have the ability to understand it within you.

That said I will offer some hints. First you will not be able to understand any message of this dream as long as you remain in fear of the experience. Let go of the fear.

Next to consider, this sounds like the appearance of a typical archetypal figure from what Jung would call the collective unconscious. Do a google search on Jung and archetypes to learn more.

Since this is a repeating dream assume that he is coming will a valuable lesson for you and do not see this image as a threat. To greatly aid this here is a very neat excercise.

If it happens again tell yourself that when you next see him you will immediately remember IN YOUR DREAM that you are only dreaming. Tell yourself NOW that you will wake up IN THE DREAM at the next sight of him. This is not the waking up of your body and brain, rather you will remain in your dream form and just become aware that you are dreaming....PAUSE... Did you tell your mind what I just said or are you just reading? Tell your mind that you will awaken in the dream. You WILL become aware in the dream.

When you do this it is called a lucid dream. The whole set of the dreamscape remains the essentially the same but will take on a new quality. The fear will vanish. The colors will brighten and you will be observing the dream body as if you are just riding in it, with detachment.

Then ask the warrior if he has a teaching for you. You may be very amazed at what he has to say. He can't give you that message now because of your fear. But the fact he keeps returning is significant.

1) Tell your mind NOW that when he appears again that is the signal for you to become lucid. Tell your mind NOW in the form of a conscious impression that you will become lucid at his next appearance. And again, only let the messaage go deeper, impress deeper into the mind. You will no longer fear him. He has come to teach you something valuable.

2)Play the role out. Be courteous, respectful and receptive. Let the whole dream sequence play out in its own time. Do not be impatient.Gently but firmly, tell your mind NOW that at the natural conclusion of the dream the body is to awaken and then immediately write down your impressions without spending time to analyze them. Have pen and paper by the bed.

3) Don't try to force meanings onto the expereience.Just remain receptive.

Hare Krsna

Avinashji,

Are the scientists saying that those stars are being held i orbit by the gravitational force of the unseen mass?

Yes one can't go very far. For instance they accept that the name they are using for Jesus wasn't the same as he was called in the language and culture he walked in. They do accept that God hears the intent of the heart and responds accordingly. So far so good. But then they will turn around and deny that God can be reached by someone in another religion calling out to God in a different name wh isn't thinking of Jesus specifically.

Then they say Jesus is God. Then I say if Jesus is God then when they call out to God, according to you they must be calling out to Jesus.

It is at this point that ay established communication breaks down. I have learned not to beat my head against the wall. It took a long time for me to learn this simple thing and I have to brain damage to prove it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jaya Yoshua

I saw that Nova show on supernova's. Very cool. I don't care if all the deatils and theories are correct as I can't really follow them anyway. I'm in it for the mind blowing AWE effect at Krsna's magnificent glory.

Scripture is everwhere. Alas, my illiteracy.

Keep this thread going guys, just remember many of us are not very technical.

Hare Krsna