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Posts posted by Sephiroth

  1. by Redsox



    Says me, yes just go back to my post earlier and read it again and look at it closely, I just took the sonic yogi's argument and wrote "Abrahamic religion" where he wrote Hinduism and switched the word hinduism with whereever he wrote abrahamic religion.

    You can see how his argument is quite meaningless, just like my argument and you can turn it either way.


    Yes, you're right ... your argument regarding Personal God versus impersonal God is meaningless.


    One of my questions is, even with all these religious societys, some time's I wonder does does it effect any one. What worth all the preaching when it goes through one ear and out the other.

    I am not an athiest but you still see the usuall.:confused::confused:


    Perhaps you should ask those who listen to preaching and forget about it later on why they are wasting their time listening to preaching?


    I'm very doubtful that everyone is like what you said they are. I'm certain not, and I know many who are not.


    Perhaps your confusion could be cleared if you look toward good people who still exists in this world, instead of looking at corrupted and worldly-minded people.


    Are we to stay celibate always.. even in marriage? Because I don't think I can do this.. Will Krishna not accept me if I have sex within marriage? And If I do have sex in marriage I would practice it with tantra.. Is this OK?? I kind of feel depressed over this..


    Isn't this kind of stupid questions? :eek4:

    I mean ... why get marry if you wanted to be celibate?


    And where did it say that one must choose Celibacy, only then could Sri Krishna accept you? :eek4:

  4. by Redsox



    Abrahamic monotheism is as authentic and spiritually genuine as the polytheism of hindus.


    Says who? :eek4:


    Judaism started when Moses brought down the Ten commandments from God for his people to follow.


    Today, Christianity have tried to take over Judaism by stating that Judaism is obsolete and that everyone should follow Christianity and worship a dead guy, hanging on a cross. Then, Muhammad came along and accuse Jews of killing of Jesus and thus, this two groups have been trying to eradicate Jews for the past 2,000 years.


    so, don't give me that bull that Monotheism is authentic crap. ONLY Judaism is authentic here. NOT COUNTING HINDUISM AND BUDDHISM.




    The abrahamic monotheism sees fire as the creation of God and they respect it.

    Abrahamic monotheism sees air as the creation of God and they respect it.

    Abrahamic monotheism sees earth as the creation of God and they respect it.


    Mind showing me where does this beliefs stated so? Because I don't remember anything such.



    Abrahamic monotheism is farce monotheism, because you can serve God by surrendering to that one true God and his messiah (their form of your idea of guru) , whilst being respectful to God's creations.


    Wrong ... that concept comes from Islam and it has nothing to do with Judaism. Blind Faith is NOT part of Judaism. In Islam and Christianity, they have to follow blindly and believe (that Muhammad is a prophet of god or that Jesus is a son of a god).


    In Judaism, Moses and the prophets have very little influence. Their way of living is not something others supposed to follow (because they are the Chosen ones). ONLY the Words of God (which they deliver to the people) are to be followed.

  5. sambya :



    immidiately i can think of abolishment of sati which was effected by combined efforts of raja rammohun roy and lord william bentinck


    Are you STUPID or something? :eek4:


    I asked you about something good which came from the West and all you can come out with is this stupidity about Sattee and how the British (allegedly) abolish it. I said allegedly because the ONLY time I have ever come across this practise was when reading the book - "Around the World in 80 days" which makes me wonder whether the practise was genuine or just to fool Indians like yourself. This is of course with assumption that you are an Indian.


    And as far as I considered, this idiocy with the so-called Sattee practise (which is doubtful if it even existed) is NOT PROOF or anything. It merely shows that you are stuck and the West have not brought ANYTHING good to India.



    but you said that you would only accept that much of god as can be verified by sceince .............that is my point of objection ..



    What is the difference between saying Science is a tool to promote the beliefs in God and by saying that Science must verify God? I do not see a difference here.


    As a Tool to promote the belief in God, Science must have a certain level of "proof" of God. Therefore, using this proof (of Science), educated people should then accept God through Science.



    you are hardly any different from those dumb hare krishnas (not all) .

    Thank you. I shall take that as a compliment. :)



    why do i turn athiest ?

    Are you not?

  6. sambya :



    i dont belive alcohol is good for me ...........i dont take any such drinks .which i already told in the begining !!


    He who speaks in behalf of a drunkard are equally at fault as the drunkard themselves. Even those who wish to give up drinking will be spoilt by people like you who defend their drinking attitudes.



    i spoke of bodhittva and i understand the word very well . i dont know what is bodhivatta . it is you who is confusing between the two and refusing to acknowledge the confusion !!




    You're a person who have no idea whatsoever on what comes out of your mouth. Just like a sawhai person I know of in another forum. :rolleyes:


    You said you spoke of Bodhivatta and understood the word but you do not know what it is. Then what is the use of knowing the word but not the meaning? Isn't that stupid? Yet, you have guts to come to me and say I'm confused.



    ha ha ha ........ i never used any wikipedia source (to all my remembrance i didnt ) .however i said "isolated case" because i couldnt be 100 % sure ....


    You cannot say NEVER and then use words like "couldn't be sure" together, can you? It shows that you do not know what comes out of your mouth and have poor control of your Mind.

  7. sambya :



    its simple logic that nothing can be absolute in this world . nothing can e absolutely bad or absolutely good ..........you disagree on that ?!!
    YES, I will disagree with that as long as you failed to provide a single example of something good which came from the West.



    feel free to stretch you imaginations .......but truth lies elsewhere !
    The Truth does not lies "somewhere", it lies WITHIN. Temple of God is within the Human Heart. That is where the 1% lies and that is Where I shall find the Truth.



    why should be bothered by what analysis and 'proves' such ignorant people have achieved ? why should our understanding(of god) depend on them ?
    Because Ignorance cannot be pushed aside. While following Ignorance will lead you astray, turning around and facing them will ensure that the Truth we seek will endure. Science maybe Ignorance, but putting Religious Facts in Scientific matter could ensure that our future generations have a beginning points to start in their ways to understand complex things.


    In basic language, Science can be used as a tool to teach youngsters about God in His basic form and understand. As they grow older and more mature, we can introduce them to a more complex ideas of God and allow them to slowly mature along with that knowledge. In that way, Science becomes a Tool to understand God.



    ... you can chose to stop posting till you become more knowledgable !!
    There is nothing wrong with my knowledge or understanding. It is your foolish Atheist beliefs and attitude which made you stuck. :rolleyes:
  8. Sambya :



    so you cannot prove me wrong


    Proving you to be wrong could not make you into a good person NOR will it make me into a wiser person. I could be wasting my time trying to educate someone who believes that alcohol is good for him.



    i dont know what bodhivatta is . i was reffereing to bodhittva which is a word used in some indian languages meaning the stage or level of buddhahood .


    You speak of words which you do not understand, and expect others to call you wise. Foolish indeed. :eek4:



    show me where ......!! one isolated case would not do ....


    The very fact that one isolated case (as you call it) remains shows that you are using Wikipedia even so its contents are doubtful. That is proof enough.



    i said " a period not extending 22 days " .

    he might die that very moment !!


    I did not ask you how long he lives, I asked you WHY he should live 22 days?



    yes .....and how many ordinary mortals can just do that ?

    The Buddhas are ANYTHING BUT ordinary.



    avoidance ?!!

    Up to you on what you should believe.

  9. sambya :



    put in a other way my words would translate as - " let it be so for you if you think it is fact ! "


    I really don't give a damn if you are incapable of understanding facts. :eek4:



    but i cannot believe that there was not a single good


    Then give me an example of something which actually good came out of the West.



    the sages of india ( including your buddha ) never relied on science to understand or accept god and neither did they look towards others to verify what they believed !!


    Because they believe in that 1% I have spoke of. :cool:



    one who believe in 1% prefers to remain on the safer side lest his 'fragile' belief called god is torn apart by some attacking scientists !!


    Hmm ... your atheist attitude is showing. Those "attacking" scientists as you called them are people fooled by Ignorant Science which I have spoken of. Why should we be bothered by people who are blinded by ignorance?



    no direct relationship but would have helped me to understand your chronic hatred towards everything western and lack of indepth study of hinduism and its scriptures ...!!


    I have not come here so I could receive your blessings. If you wish to speak, then speak. Otherwise, leave my sight.

  10. sambya :



    i assure you i am really interested to see the other way of understanding as seen by someone else ! i am eager to know what your views are about vedic culture on drinking !


    I don't see the purpose of me entertaining you in this matter. Have you not walk around stating how Vedic culture have allowed alcohol drinking?



    buddhahood or attainment of bodhittva - a perfectional stage of human developement bothe materially and spiritually resulting in realization of the truth and consequent liberation , attained through the practise of deep contemplation and meditation . of course this is a highly inadequate answer , for details might extend into pages .


    Buddhahood is nothing to do with attaining Bodhivatta. Matter a fact, such belief can only be found in Mahayana Buddhism, which Thervada Buddhism (teachings of Gautama Buddha) do not support.


    If your goal is to obtain state of Bodhivatta, then you will not find enlightment and will still fall down to the cycle of rebirth.



    stop referring to wikipedia articles filled with mistakes !!


    That's funny, you usually use Wikipedia to support your claims in the past.


    Anyway, as the Wikipedia have stated, ONLY those who believes in Advaita follows the belief of Jivamukti.



    biologically he dies(bodily functions ceases)

    spiritually he is liberated(moksha)


    Then what is the use of him being alive for 22 days? Might as well that he dies straightaway.


    In Thervada Buddhism, Gautama Buddha have achieved Enlightnment but he choose to suspend the final process (which involves physical death) in order to teach Humans about the Truth.



    are you a buddhist ?

    I'm the Serpeant that Guarded the Buddha in His meditation. :)

  11. sambya :



    let it be so if you understand it in that way ..


    It is not what I say or understand. It is FACT. Fact is Fact, sugar-coating it will not make it anymore pleasant to swallow.



    take india for example . many indians would classify everything that comes from the west as british and vile !


    Actually it is. Can you give me an example of something which comes from the West which actually good for you?



    you can get it verified from any guru of any sampradya in india in case you disbelieve me !!


    Hmph ... people who follows the 99% will always look for others to verify what they believe in, because they have no idea what they believe in.


    One who believe in the 1% will always know what he believes in is the truth for its simplicity.



    are you a westerner ?


    I do not see the relationship about my backgrounds and this discussion.

  12. sambya :



    im not speaking for drinking but merely acknowledging that drinking habits has always been there in ancient india . you are certainly free to prove me wrong if you are knowledgable enough !!


    And why should I? By keep asking other to prove you to be wrong, you have already believed that you are correct. In such situation, explaining anything to you could be a waste of time. :rolleyes:



    i think you do not . when i said buddha i meant the enlightened state or buddhahood .


    And what may I ask do you understand by this state of Buddhahood?



    hey are called jivanmuktas or one who is liberated even while living .


    Jivanmukta concept could only be found in Advaita Vedanta - which was founded by Adi Shankara. And it is the ONLY school which stated such concept where a person can achieve Moksha even while he still alive.


    Jivanmukta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    nirvikalpa samadhi which is considered as the highest perfectional stage automatically liberates a soul but he might live in that state for a period not extending 22 days .


    And what happens after the 22 days?



    ordinary liberation and historical buddha are not the same thing . characters like buddha come once in a millenia . they cannot be compared to many others getting liberated .


    Then you agree that there are other Buddhas who have come and went from the time Gautama Buddha was around to this day?


    And there is no such thing as Historical Buddha. The True Buddha is Gautama Buddha ALONE. The next one could be Maitreya Buddha.



    you are a child .


    Thank you. I shall take that as a compliment. :)


    And you are AFRAID. Why are you afraid?

  13. sambya :



    christianity and its persecutions played a nice role in starting this dark ages but it was not the only factor . dark ages was also a period of social stagnancy and unproductivity and there were numerous other factors involved in its creation .


    No, Christianity alone was the reason for the Dark Ages to commence and last for 500 YEARS, choking the European communities from advancing. Even today, it is a fear of such "choking effect" still could be found in Europe and America where people there are still very much ignorant toward Science.



    science was created not to deny god but to provide an alternative explantion to the world around ..it was a product of rebellious emotions of some people long oppresed under catholic yoke .


    Same thing except you use some nice words to say it. Ignorant Science was created in the West in order to rebel against the (Christian) god. That is fact no matter how you say it.



    later when eastern religions with their broad mind setup reached the west , the contemporary scientists were curious and eager to know more of the subtle indian philosophies !!


    Quit your daydreams. The Westerners are not that open-minded. They are very egoistic and selfish and they will always look down on Indians, Chinese and everything Asian.


    Take History for example. Hindu scholars have already discovered that the Sun was the centre of the Solar System and even went to calculate the distant from Earth to the Sun over 1,000 years before Copernicus and what does West teaches to its people there? That Copernicus was the "father" of astronomy.


    Chinese people have invented paper and used it for various purposes (including as toilet paper) by the time Marco Polo reached China in 13th Century and who gets the credits for inventing the publications? Gutenberg.


    The Westerners are still very much a Christian even so they do not accept Christianity (as they did during the Dark Ages). They still want their religion to be in the center of everything, and their Jesus to be the most important one and that they are the center of the Universe and all others must bow to them. That attitude did not change from the day they sat foot on the sands of Goa, India to the present day.



    i take the word of scriptures ! they are from the mouths of realized souls .. so what they say about god is far more trustworthy and relevent than anything else !!


    And THAT is the difference between you and me. I take the 1% to be more important to the 99%.

  14. sambya :



    but the scriptures always differentiate and place the transcendental knowledge at a higher place than this material knowledge . although in its perfectional stage there are no two knowledges . their are different aspects of the truth . but material knwoledge is more concerned with creation while spiritual knowledge is concerned with the creator !


    To me, whether it is Materialistic Knowledge or Spiritual knowledge - only thing I could think about is HOW TO USE THEM for benefit of Mankind. If you cannot use them for the benefit of Mankind, then those knowledge are USELESS.



    ignorant science it is for sure ! but the second statement is not wholly true . it was not created to deny god but to provide more material comforts . but it actually ended up in denying god ............thats correct .


    Wrong ... Western Science evolved from the needs to debunk Christian god. And that is fact.


    Unlike in India, the Europeans have lived for 500 years in (what historians called) Dark Ages. In that period of time, Christianity was practiced and Science is according to the Bible. Which means that anyone who said that the Earth is not the Center of the Universe or the Solar System, or that there are other lifeforms somewhere else and such WILL BE CONSIDERED HERETIC AND PUNISHED BY DEATH.


    So, Science grew later with a goal of ensuring that the Dark Ages do not return. Unfortunately for us (in the East), this foolish people considered Asians to be lowered in status and education and attended to "reeducate" Asians so they could be more civilized. And that is how this ignorant Science found it's way to Asia.



    what about the rest 99% ? should we believe it as true or not ......your answer is not quite definite !


    I don't know ... what do you think? :rolleyes:


    99% is useless without the 1% to complete it, and 1% is simply too small to be considered as an important fact. So, what do you believe we should do?


    now , i think you have understood what i originally meant . one example in recorded history !!! do you think that it is very practical to do away with rituals for ordinary aspirants ? true, buddha said that anyone can become a buddha but the question remains how many did become a buddha in 4000 years ?


    Do you think that being a Buddha means that a person have to dress like the Buddha, speak and walk around like the Teacher (Gautama Buddha)? If that is your understand of Buddha, I will say that you are sadly mistaken.


    Being a Buddha means being liberated from Rebirth. And that could only be achieve AT THE MOMENT OF DEATH.


    Which means in the past 2,500 years (since Gautama Buddha), there could be countless Buddhas who followed His ways and liberate themselves. However, they do not stay on this World after Liberation.


    This is because a person who have become Buddha (liberated) can still fall back into the Cycle of Birth and Death if he sway from the Truth even for a moment. It will take an exception Man with a great and compassionate heart to allow himself to remain on this Planet to help others and at the same time, risk falling back into the Cycle again.


    The first is Gautama Buddha, the next shall be Maitreya Buddha.


    no its not a devil sign or something like that !! in fact ancient hindus frequently used alcoholic beverages like soma and sura in celbrations and even in rituals !


    it is definately a pleasure item ! but from a purely spiritual point of view pleasure items are the one that distracts and clouds the mind most ..........so for a spiritual aspirant such things are strictly forbidden , one who is not so inclined towards spirituality can definately carry on with his drinking !!


    So speaks the Drunkards. :cool:

  17. sambya :



    ... but for any individual spiritual knowledge stands at a higher position than material knowledge . a human birth without knowledge of god is considered worthless . so a person having material knowledge and denying spiritual knowledge is not worthwhile .


    I disagree here. In my opinion, Spiritual knowledge and Material Knowledge are the same. ONLY DIFFERENCE here is HOW WE USED THEM.


    I believe that a person can still achieve Spiritual development by using Materialistic Knowledge. For example - a Scientists could develop means of growing food, clean the planet (from pollution), eradicate diseases and such (ALL IN NAME OF GOD) using Materialistic Knowledge.


    And at the same time, a Swami could fall from grace by denying help to others and seek solely toward Spiritualism alone. He could reject Humanity yet he seeks God. Such person could be useless to God and Man.




    the normal science that began in middle ages and continues till this day and taught in schools and universities . includes different fields of science and still unproven but popular hypothesis like worm hole or multiverse .


    why ? what was so difficult in understanding the term 'moden science' ?


    What you call as "Modern" Science, I call it as Ignorant Science.

    This Science is created in the West with purpose of proving that (Christian) God is false and wrong.



    thats good !! i wish it could happen fast ! but supposse that some attributes described in the scriptures cannot be found out by science even after lot of research . now would that mean those attributes are non existent , in your understanding ?!!


    It is scientific fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE to get all the variables correct. Even the most intelligent group of scientists, working with the most powerful computers, could only get 99% correct accuracy and in most cases, it could be that 1% which determines the result. That 1% is God.


    Science have accepted that it has limitations. Therefore, God is acceptable hypothesis within Science.


    ... but for the majority of people getting liberated without following any rituals is practically impossible . if you beg to differ show me some examples where you saw such an individual !!


    I know only one - Gautama Buddha. He have rejected most of rituals which associated with Hindusm at his time and he had become Liberated.


    That example is good enough for me.

  19. arjun2826 :



    First : Drinking once a week for example doesn't make of you a drunkard. I don't get surprised you say this because you never drunk I suppose and I am sure you talk of someting you don't know. In that case, in my opinion, people should not talk LOL.


    Hmph ... you cannot understand why I have called you a drunkard, did you?




    Second : Spiritualism need discipline and self control. I totally agree, and this is what I do. Only, I have my fashion to do. I feel good with that. You have yours, you feel good with yours. I don't criticize.


    What you have is Self-Excuse. Nothing more. You have no discipline and you will NOT progress in Spiritualism. All you could ever be is a fellow who uses excuses to remain in an ignorant state. That is all you will ever be.



    Third : What about if a medicine contains alcohol ? Would you say that you will never authorize it because it contains alcohol and would prefer risk the life of somebody that is closed to you ?


    Your drinking habits have NOTHING to do with Medicine. It is merely another excuse for a drunkard to drink.




    I totally agree with you. And this is what I am trying to do


    You are fooling yourself and busy trying to fool others with your excuses. THAT is what you're doing. :rolleyes:


    Atheists say that God, to exist, must be unlimitedly complex, since He must be more complex than the universe itself...is that argument true?


    Yeah, that could be true. Humans can never understand God completely (as much as we like to). We can only perceive Him through His attributes. Therefore, we cannot actually understand how God is but create a picture of God in our Mind.


    Furthermore, who said that this is the only Universe out there? There could be countless Universes, overlooked by God. In that context, God could always be Unlimitedly Complex.


    Perhaps, all we should be happy about is that He is there and He watches over us. :)

  21. sambya :



    there might have been a communication problem here . i used the word knowledge in the sense of wisdom - and that is the standard meaning of the word in indian spiritual scriptures . you were using knowledge in the sense of book reading .


    what i was saying is that mere book reading and dry speculation will do nothing to get you the wisdom ....... you need sadhana and devotion for that . do you disagree ?


    I disagree because what you say in both paragraphs actually conflicting with each other.


    I could agree that Wisdom could only obtained by devotions (and Spiritualism); however, right now, I'm more toward limiting my use of Knowledge on sense of book reading.


    You seems to think that Knowledge should only be used for "Spiritualism". If that is the case, I will disagree with you. I believe that Knowledge which derived from Spiritualism MUST be used in Worldly manners as well. One should not separate Knowledge and Wisdom from Worldly and Spiritual World.



    modern science doesnt believe in personal god - one who has a anthropomorphic form , but our scriptures repeatedly speaks of such god . do you deny such gods merely because science does not accept them ?


    Mind explaining what do you mean by "Modern Science" here? What do you consider as "Modern Science"?



    tell me .....do you really think it is possible to 'prove' god to the entire population using material science ?!!


    YES, it is possible to derive a working model of God using Material Science. It will not show 100% accurate "descriptions" of God, but it should validate some of His Attributes enough to fit the puzzle called God.



    i have nothing to fear........ill be the happiest if you suceed doing that , but sadly our own scriptures indicate that it is not possible !


    Then THROW AWAY your Scriptures. :cool:


    yes i accept that . its not strictly impossible but only avatara and divine humans are capable of attaining liberation without observance of any rituals . for the overwhelming majority or nimna-adhikaris it remains a must .


    Actually, it is this kind of thinking which makes Hindusm and Buddhism obselete.


    The people like the Teacher (Gautama Buddha) teaches Man how to become self-liberate, and Divine Ones like Sri Krishna leaves the World after giving Bhavagad Gita for Man to follow, and what do people like you do?


    You put aside all this wisdoms and teaching by labelling them as gods and divine beings and continue to do foolish things by not following what they have taught.


    IF they believe that Man is incapable of self-liberation, they will not be bothered to teach. It is up to the clever ones to learn and try to liberate oneself while the foolish ones could continue to live in Maya of self-doubt.

  23. sambya :



    by trying to explain god one comes to know his various attributes and features as explained in scriptures and other religions . but one cannot arrive at 'knowledge' of god through that.


    Wrong ... the Knowledge which one obtains through studies of His Attributes and Features IS KNOWLEDGE.


    Knowledge itself cannot help one arrive to God, but one MUST change that Knowledge into Wisdom before he or she could understand God.


    Take Evolution for example. 150 years ago, people in India could not know what Evolution (like West came to know) means. Yet by studying the Attributes as shown in Maha Vishnu's Avatar, one could able to derive this knowledge in theory.


    Therefore, God which (attributes) cannot be explained by Science should be thrown away.



    now that means only that much of god must be accepted as is materially 'proven' by science . which in turn means that gods validity is subject to scientific 'proofs' !!!


    Yes, even Gods must be subjected to Examinations and Studies in order to understand them (even so we cannot understand them completely).


    If you believe that Gods exist, then why not try and proof them? What do you have to fear?


    so it is very natural that god cannot be explained by science . if it was possible then i would start doubting that god on whether it was god at all .


    so are you trying to suggest that god is percievable through our gross imperfect material senses by following the processes of experimentaion , observation and inference ??!!


    The important aspect here is TRY IT not DONE IT. Don't understand? I will explain.


    An action of TRYING to explain God (through our imperfect senses) is more valuable than actually doing it. By trying to explain God, one can achieve knowledge which one cannot achieve in any other ways.


    The Europe were in Dark Ages because everyone accepted "God" is like what the Bible have stated. So, they blind follow it and willing to stone, kill and burnt alive anyone who stated otherwise. In their minds, they have already achieved an understanding of God (and even today, Christians still fools themselves into thinking that God is like what their Bible stated).


    At the same time in India, Scientists and learned ones tried to understand God and they know that it is impossible to do so. Yet they continue to do - learning new things, examine and reexamine them and try to piece together how the World and the Universe works. Their actions have created a large reservoir of Knowledge which no one else could have possibly achieved at that age.


    The Goal in Science should be TRY to Find God (even so it is impossible to do so). Because in God, all things resides and by trying to find Him, you will find all sort of Knowledge which you did not know existed.

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