raga

Vrindavan: http://wiki.gaudiyakutir.com/TGV

I really am not very familiar with their ideology. You can browse the links under the Jagadbandhu entry for some leads, and I think Kapoor may have included a bio in his Saints of Bengal as well. (I don't have a copy at hand.)

I don't know from where the idea comes from, or at what point it surfaced, but I am under the impression that Jagadbandhu seems to have endorsed it himself. Specifically, he is supposed to be Nava-Gauranga, the new avatar of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. They also have an idea of his eventual resurrection, if I am not mistaken.

There was also an attempt to declare Radharaman Caran Das Baba ("Nitai Gaura Radhe Shyam") a joint avatar of Nitai and Gaura, but the Baba objected to this strongly and ousted the person suggesting this, one of his closest companions, from his sanga. Barha Baba's life was nothing short of miraculous, so such a suggestion was not altogether astonishing.

Jagadbandhu seems to have been fairly unconcerned over formalities; I believe one of his specialties was that "diksha is not required at all". Though honestly, I'm not all that familiar with their ideology.

I am under the impression that Baba Bharati and Mahanambrata Brahmacari were, by all counts, much more "orthodox" in practice than their source of inspiration. The two photos of Premananda Bharati are not much to go by, but if you look at photos of his follower Mahanambrata, you'll see him in several photos with a mala.

On the other hand, I have a whole stock of illustrations of Gaudiya acaryas without their malas, all the way from the Gosvamis onwards, so no, I don't think much can be deducted on the basis of these photos.

This illustration, however, will certainly provoke some thoughts.

--

Madhavacari - I am not aware of Baba Premananda's having received diksa from any particular Gaudiya guru. That isn't to say he didn't, I just don't know. It's quite possible that he was content with whatever it is that he received from Jagadbandhu.

Then, to answer to the question I assume is written between the lines before you ask it, the difference is in maintaining a cordial relationship with the rest of the samaj; and to answer onwards, no, that does not make their beliefs on Jagadbandhu any more orthodox; and again onwards, my view is that as far as they conveyed the correct message, whatever they did was for the good.

I see. That makes sense considering all. Different strokes for different folks as the saying goes.

I have now added some examples of themes Baba Bharati wrote on in his monthly magazine between 1906-1912, may be of interest.

http://wiki.gaudiyakutir.com/Baba_Premananda_Bharati#Light_of_India

I brushed up on the article and revised some bits on the basis of some interesting notes I just received from Mr. Carney.

http://wiki.gaudiyakutir.com/Baba_Premananda_Bharati

Sure... whatever people want to make up is fine.

 

But to be practical, Prabhupada, after travelling throughout the world, and distributing millions of books worldwide, had only 10,000 initiated disciples. And that with access to modern media such as television, etc.

 

The facts would be more like Premananda had 2 or 3 disciples if any. He was a historical nobody who had no impact on any of the Hindu gurus who came to the west.

You cannot guess or estimate facts. If you have something solid to go on, do present.

I also wanted to repost this quote from Prabhupada.

You have got, say, ten thousand followers. That does not mean success. Everyone has got some followers. This.... What is that? Guruji Maharaja. He has got also so-called followers. The T.M., he has got also some followers. Everyone has got some followers. But what kind of followers they have? That is quality. Everything has quality. Simply quantity is not. There are many Christians. Even up to date, some Christian fair or.... Many millions will come. What is the quality? Quality is all meat-eater. But Christian means he should not kill. Where is the Christian? So we have to test by the quality, followers. Not many followers, the quality of the followers. My Guru Maharaja used to say like that, that “If I get at least one quality disciple, then all my labor will be success.” He was saying like that: quality, not the quantity. By quantity if one is amazed, then he is also goru [cow].

That aside, it is not at all uncommon for Gaudiya Vaisnava gurus in Bengal to have 5.000 or 10.000 disciples even without broadcasting on TV or having a website.

Yes - they were inspired by Jagadbandhu, who was a peculiar case in the wild dawn of the 20th century.

Interesting trivia: The title "Sree Krishna" is mentioned in a letter written by Mahatma Gandhi to Leo Tolstoi on October 1, 1909, found in the Collected Works of Gandhi (#91, p.132 - PDF). Gandhi notes that Tolstoi had referred to the text frequently: "In the letter in question, you have quoted largely from Krishna and given reference to passages. I should thank you to give me the title of the book from which the quotations have been made."

It seems a bit of a stretch to call Premananda Bharati a Vaisnava. I have always thought real Gaudiya Vaisnavas would call him a Mayavadi or maybe a sahajiya since he is a follower of Jagabandhu, not Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

How well are you familiar with Premananda Bharati's teachings? Just because he found inspiration in someone we don't consider orthodox doesn't make him a mayavadi or a sahajiya.

Why was he called baba if he traveled around like a parivrajakacharya?

 

don't babas sit down for bhajan in a solitary place?

 

since when do babajis travel all over the world?

There is no strict definition on what babajis do or don't do. Some sit in solitude, some travel far and wide.

Good work Raga on your misinformation tactic to belittle Prabhupada. You people are a joke. Even now there are only a dozen followers of the Babaji's, and you want to pretend this person had 5,000 disciples in 1902 and was the real pioneer of Krishna consciousness in the West.

Are you suggesting that Baba Premananda Bharati didn't exist? I note that the figure 5000 is "according to some accounts" - what then do I pretend? He did not disappear into nobodyness if there's an entry on him in Encyclopedia of American Religions. Baba Bharati is a well-known figure outside IGM.

It may also be of interest to you that Baba Bharati's disciple, Mahanambrata Brahmacari, is told to have given 354 lectures in 63 US towns and spoken at 29 universities in the 1930's (1933-1939).

I am not a follower of either, and I really couldn't care less if they wouldn't have gone West before Prabhupada. Who was the first to go to China? Who are the current pioneers in Bangladesh? I wouldn't have a clue, and that doesn't make a lot of difference to me either.

Your faith in Prabhupada must be fragile if you need to attack others like this. Please identify yourself before commenting any further. Your Prabhupada signed his statements, he didn't write anonymous criticism of others.

The idea that "aggressive outreach" is not traditional though seems odd though. Did not Haridas Thakur and Lord Nityananda go door to door begging the residents to chant?

Yes - and Haridas also chanted three lakhs of names. That gives a perspective of the balance that's needed between outreach and bhajan.

I am not making a note against preaching as such - it's only the "all-out" approach where preaching effectively replaces personal bhajan that worries me.

The logic of "how many breads can one give from an empty basket" helps understand why many prefer to first focus on individual bhajan-cultivation.

Oh, you posted his picture so I thought you might know. I was just curious what a "raganuga" might preach to a general German audience. I am not so interested to look further.

Personally, I find the term "raganuga" as a designation a bit silly, though I realize there are even people who call themselves such. There is so much in Gaudiya Vaisnavism, and so many different things need to be given to different kinds of recipients.

Honestly, many of the so-called raganugas are in dire need of some vidhi to shape them up a bit - to actually have them follow that raga instead of groveling in this world amidst god-knows-what. Lack of vidhi makes the so-called occasional raganuga little more than the proverbial elephant's bath.

A speech to a "general" audience would very likely feature "general" topics - you know, the basics that forms a foundation for a mature theological understanding that gives one the possibility to factually appreciate the beauty of the concept of rasa.

I am not really interested in entertaining an extended debate with our verbose friend, Puru Das. He is well aware of my earlier responses to the said issues, which leaves me baffled over his bringing them to the table again. It tickles me greatly.

Let me just ask questions. The first one being, "who are the babajis who are saying the things that have been quoted." If that is not clarified, one runs the risk of attacking mirages. There is enough negative feeling in this world even without imagining more, even if some might justify that as a matter of generating chivalrous team spirit among his group of devotees. That generally just leads to aparadha.

On a related note, may I ask who you are and where you stand as far as your spiritual affiliations are concerned, Viraja-man? Does the name suggest that you are at tatastha, weighing in the options?

Puru: Read the entire thing and then your question is answered.

Puru, please tell us which babajis are saying the things you have quoted.

There is even a book in English by Premananda Bharati, called Sri Krishna I think.

See http://wiki.gaudiyakutir.com/Premananda_Bharati.

Could you explain the nature of his preaching a little bit. Who is his target audience or does he preach as openly and publically as possible. What is the main focus of his preaching. IOW does he preach the basics ,"aham brahmasmi, chant Hare Krsna" or is he looking to to speak to those who may be more interested in the more intimate of Krsna-lilas?

While I have not met him in person, I understand that he will speak in a manner that will address the actual need of the audience.

Then, what audiences? Naturally, he will want to first minister to the spiritual needs of those, who are already devotees, and those, who are aspiring devotees with a keen interest on the bhakti-path. The concept of "aggressive outreach" is a bit more foreign to traditional Gaudiya Vaisnavas than it is to modern missionary movements.

--

You have got, say, ten thousand followers. That does not mean success. Everyone has got some followers. This.... What is that? Guruji Maharaja. He has got also so-called followers. The T.M., he has got also some followers. Everyone has got some followers. But what kind of followers they have? That is quality. Everything has quality. Simply quantity is not. There are many Christians. Even up to date, some Christian fair or.... Many millions will come. What is the quality? Quality is all meat-eater. But Christian means he should not kill. Where is the Christian? So we have to test by the quality, followers. Not many followers, the quality of the followers. My Guru Maharaja used to say like that, that “If I get at least one quality disciple, then all my labor will be success.” He was saying like that: quality, not the quantity. By quantity if one is amazed, then he is also goru [cow].

There is a time and a place for everything and for everyone. I guess that is why many of our teachers have not come to the West. (Though several have.)

By extension, one could ask -- "Why have none of the Gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas -- yours, ours or anyone's -- come to the West to preach prior to the 20th century?"

(As interesting trivia, preaching in the West was pioneered by Baba Premananda Bharati who arrived in the U.S. in 1902, followed by his disciple Mahanambrata Brahmacari in the 1930's.)

Could you please define "classic Gaudiya Vaishnavism"?

GAUDIYA KUTIR WIKI

Gaudiya Kutir is pleased to announce the opening of Gaudiya Kutir Wiki (gkWiki) – an online Gaudiya Vaisnava encyclopedia.

The project

The project is built as a community endeavor, block by block, and is steadily growing into a deep treasure-mine of information on all facets of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. The work is currently in its initial stages. The structure is being organized, the required entries are being charted and placeholders and disorganized content are being put in their places, the first complete entries are being written.

The solution

gkWiki is based on the MediaWiki software package, used as the back-end of the popular Wikipedia website among many others. Technically, Wiki-software allows all editors to work on each others' entries, correcting mistakes, elaborating and reorganizing content; it also archives all versions of an article to ensure that nothing precious is deleted for good.

Additional tools

With the opening of the Wiki, we are also pleased to announce the availability of a number of helpful tools to aid in the use of diacritics in transliterated text. They are available under Help / Tools on the website.

Visit us online

Gaudiya Kutir cordially invites everyone to explore the resource and to check in often – it evolves every day. gkWiki is available online at:

http://wiki.gaudiyakutir.com/

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Lake of Flowers Productions is a project run by volunteers. It slices off a substantial amount of our time and also cuts a hole into our purses every so often when new equipment and so forth is required. To help in keeping Lake of Flowers Productions alive in full capacity, please consider donating — at least to help us break even with material costs.

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Week 23 - A summer break

Lake of Flowers Productions will be on a summer break until Thursday, June 22nd, when our next video release will be coming out. It's not a holiday, really – we badly need some time to wrap together a number of other ongoing Gaudiya Kutir endeavors and also just try and tend to plain old "work for living", too.

Madhavananda, the project director who's taking care of the release of new material, will be migrating to India mid-September and has a ton of things to wrap together before the grand occasion. We also hope to finish a number of DVDs and have them available by the end of the break. We Gaudiya Vaishnavas do not manifest four-armed Vishnu-forms, which severely limits our ability to multi-task.

An audio release came out on this week's monday, the next new video comes out after the break. (Sorry – we just didn't have time to get the video processed for this week!) In the meantime, check out our older entries, and while you're at it, leave a review or two.

Niyama-seva kirtana - Songs in the temples (Video: 2005)

 

Madhava , you said it is video but I can only download it as audio. What can be wrong?

 

I use winamp and I have no problems viewing video on it, eg my guru's video lectures and other music mtv downloads. What can be wrong?

Which file are you trying to download? They certainly are all video files. The following page may be useful:

http://www.lakeofflowers.com/pool/specifications

I suspect you're trying to view the x264 file and haven't installed ffdShow to interpret the compressed video, or otherwise are trying to view the mp4 files with something else than Quicktime.

Gostha-lila - Krishna at the pastures (Audio: 2005)

Gostha-lila, or Krishna's leaving for the pastures with the cows and the calves, is a popular, recurring theme in lila-kirtanas, or songs describing his pastimes. This session, led by Anath Bandhu Das Babaji, was recorded on Gopastami at Radha-kunda.

Total running time: 55:46 min

http://www.lakeofflowers.com/entry/gostha-lila

Niyama-seva kirtana - Songs in the temples (Video: 2005)

The sacred month of Niyama-seva, occuring annually in October-November, is brimming with devotional festivity. In the village of Radha-kunda, the devotees circumambulate the village to the accompaniment of kirtan, stopping at different temples to relish songs authored by the blessed poets of the Gaudiya Vaishnava heritage. This is the first of a series of four compilations of songs. Kirtaniyas: Sanatana Das Babaji, Visvambhara Das Babaji.

Part 1: Miscellaneous kirtan

1. Jaya Jaya Guru Vancha-kalpataru (SD) • 2. Kirtan at Jagannath Mandir (VD) • 3. Keno Gelam Yamunar Jale? (SD) • 4. Shyama Teri Vamsi (SD) • 5. Yamunar Kinare (SD)

Total running time: 18:49

http://www.lakeofflowers.com/entry/niyama-seva