raga

So now Bhakti-devi, who appears on account of her own supremely independent grace alone, has become more inclined to appear in the hearts of men on account of their supposedly more refined intelligence? Such a conception is mixed with the jnana-marga, not an unadulterated bhakti-conception. This is something that unfortunately occurs often in the modern monastic Gaudiya movements. Don't worry about it.

Of course there are. It is prescribed in the scriptures, so of course all sadhakas whose health permits the vrata observe it.

Post them in and I'll convert them into Devanagari and post here.

I wonder if there was anything in this thread that prompted such a reply, suggesting that "ugly ones associate with ugly ones" and so forth? If yes, perhaps you could quote that in the quote-box of your response instead of what I wrote.

Which temples did you go to, and how many gurus you heard? Did you ever ask from any senior Vaishnava about the love of Radha and Krishna? Just curious, I am asking. I know many who have studied the writings of the Gosvamis, many of them have books from Sri Ananta Das Babaji and Narayan Maharaj in their closet and they are reading. As if preaching the mission of Sri Caitanya meant that everyone preaches the same thing. They are definitely preaching the message of Sri Caitanya, albeit on a more elementary level, and many of them probably could not teach adequately about the higher levels of sadhana, but nevertheless it is the message of Sri Caitanya. If it is not an aspect of His message, then whose message is it?

Particularly the bold part of it is on the right track. False desires may go now or later, but when sadhu-kripa comes, they start fleeing out of the chamber of the heart rapidly. If we were to examine the position of vaidhi-bhakti as a means to attain eligibility for raganuga, we could coin it a supportive cause. There are both vaidhi and raganugiya sadhus. The first cannot bestow what the second can, for the Vraja-anuraga which is transmitted from the heart through sadhu-kripa is not present in the first one. The kripa of the first kind of sadhu manifests as sastriya-sraddha, as faith in the scriptures. Mercy is always the ingredient cause and the direct cause of eligibility, and it is unmerited, without a pre-calculated means for its attainment.

Since lobha is the qualification for raganuga-sadhana, and lobha is defined as that desire (for attaining the feelings of a Vraja-associate) which awakens without the force of scriptural commandment or logical conclusion, it is ludicrous to think that one could force himself into the practice of raganuga-sadhana just because he heard it should be done. It is never possible, such a person simply deceives himself. When greed for attaining the sweetness for the moods of the Vraja-loka attains, then qualification arises, and one begins to practice. Without eligibility one cannot practice, it will merely create a disturbance in the assembly of learned and thoughtful devotees.

I would appreaciate if you first identified yourself. Based on your approach and the verses you have cited, it appears to me as characteristics of a follower of Narayan Maharaja. Am I mistaken? 5 verses will have to wait until the evening. For qualification for raga-marga, please refer to the "qualification" page found under the www-link in my signature.

When our guest spoke of "ultimate reason", he must have referred to the internal reasons for the descent of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, namely (1) To taste His own sweetness, to understand the love of Radha and the happiness she feels, and (2) to spread raga-marga bhakti to the whole world. (See CC Adi 4.) Since ISKCON primarily focuses on preaching to the masses, and indeed their preaching is also rather basic to the community of devotees, through empirical means it is hard to directly verify that they are in fact flooding the whole world in raga-marga bhakti. It is a matter of faith I guess. However, people should be sensitive with the faith of others, regardless of their own opinion about the issue.

Let's begin with five?

I don't find it fair that a person is designated as foolish before we give a fair trial to him. Let us examine the ultimate desire of Lord Caitanya and the activities of ISKCON, then we can arrive at a fair conclusion.

Do you have a good reason to believe that there were no crazy Muslims at the time of Mahaprabhu and His immediate followers? Have you by chance ever read any biographies of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu? All right, perhaps they didn't have hand granades back then, but just see the destruction they brought about during the century subsequent to Mahaprabhu's withdrawing His lila from the eyes of this world! Did the Gaudiyas emphasize Gita and ksatriya-dharma back then to the exclusion of Caitanya? No, in fact Gauranga-seva and Gauranga-upasana began to blossom far and wide.

Mahaprabhu said nothing of Gita itself, only commenting on certain verses of the Gita which Ramananda Raya proposed as an option for sadhya. We know from the internal infrastructure of the Gita itself that it encompasses statements various grades of authority and significance, this is evident even from the words of Bhagavan Himself. Prabhu rejected Gita 9.27 suggesting sannyasa-yoga as the sadhya. We know from Jiva's Bhakti-sandarbha that engagement in acts of aropa-siddha-bhakti is certainly not the ultimate means of sadhana, what to speak of its being the sadhya. He also rejected Gita 18.66 suggesting dharma-tyaga and saranagati as the sadhya. They are certainly preliminary elements of sadhana, but not the sadhya. Prabhu rejected Gita 18.54 as well, since the attainment of mukti as a foundation for bhakti is also not the sadhya. He did quote from Gita 4.11 when he began to explain the concept of gopi-bhava, though it became evident that Krishna couldn't actually reciprocate with the Vraja-ramanis according to His promise. Of course a careful observer will come to note that Gita 4.11 was spoken by Dvarakadhisa decades after Sri Nandanandana enjoyed with the gopis in Vraja-dhama; what Dvarakadhisa has said is certainly true, for He is a partial manifestation of Vrajendranandana, and in the realm where He presides, prema does not rise so high as to go beyond his reciprocal capacity. However, Bhagavad Gita itself was never proposed as the sadhya; after all, how can a scripture be the object of sadhana? Rather it is a guide-book. Gita is a manual for people with varying eligibilities, not excluding the aspirants who desire to follow the raganuga-marga. Interestingly, in the closing passage (2.8) of his Raga Vartma Candrika, Srila Cakravartipad refers twice to the Gita to illustrate his point. This in itself should suffice to demonstrate the point that the general principles of the Gita, under proper guidance, are befitting for everyone. After all, can one find any fault in the statements of Sri Gita, such as mac-cittA mad-gata-prANA, satata-yuktAnAM bhajatAM prIti-pUrvakam, ananyAz cintayanto mAm paryupAsate or mayy eva mana Adhatsva? They are certainly worth the careful consideration of both the aspirant and the accomplished one.

I'd be interested to know the names of the people who post strong opinions without revealing their identity, just to get an idea of their background and to weigh the worth of their words. Anonymous questions are all right, but anonymous challenges and strong opinions practically invalidate themselves through anonymity. A person who speaks out loud without revealing himself is a person who is not willing to stand behind his claims. Such a person should rather be silent.

Nimbarkis have a strong presence in Vraja, particularly in Varsana. Akin to Gaudiyas, their upasya-tattva is also Radha-Krishna whom they worship on raga-marga.

It is never too late for yet another post on the theology of manjari-bhava. Rupa Gosvami defines manjari-bhava, also known as bhavollasa-rati, as follows in his Bhakti-Rasamrita-Sindhu: <font color="darkblue">saJcArI syAt samAno vA kRSNa-ratyAH suhRd-ratiH | adhikA puSyamANA ced bhAvollAsA ratiH ||2.5.128||</font color> If the love experienced for Sri Krishna and Srimati Radharani is equal, the affection for Radha is called suhrid-rati. This is a wave (sancari-bhava, transitory feeling) in the sthayi-bhava (foundational feeling) of some sakhis. If one's love for Radha exceeds the love for Krishna and is ever-nourished, it is called bhavollasa-rati. The mood of the manjaris is classified into this unique category of mood in the analysis of bhakti-rasa. Another name for this is Radha-snekadhika (or sakhi-snehadhika), those whose affection for Radha is prominent. This we know as manjari-bhava, the cherished treasure of Sriman Mahaprabhu in the Gaudiya sampradaya. One unique characteristic of the manjaris is that they have no desire for sambhoga (union) with Krishna. They only desire to serve Sri Radha in Her amorous sports with Her beloved. This is echoed throughout the writings of the Gosvamis, perhaps most splendidly in the writings of Sri Raghunatha Das Gosvamipad. Hence, although in general Sri Krishna is the object of love, in this special case love for Radha predominates over and above the love for Krishna. As the manjaris are one category of sakhis (to be precise, two of the five categories), they are classified in the realm of madhurya-rasa. Certainly they are the dasis, maidservants, of Radha, but nevertheless they are of madhurya-rasa as they share the mood of their svamini (mistress) Sri Radha. They live in bhava-tadatmya, in a unity of feelings, with Her. Dear Guest, I just uploaded three new discourses on the 26th verse of Radha Rasa Sudhanidhi. These three describe Sri Radha's being vaidagdhya-sara, the essence of cleverness. [ http://www.raganuga.com/lectures/ ] Jay Radhe Shyam!

Here is the website of NamosteIndia. <hr> http://www.gaudiya.com/namosteindia/ "You will not get cheaper than this!" "If you are not satisfied in our service, then tell us. If you are, then tell others."

Also check out his "Saints of Bengal". As for the "Saints of Vraja", you can also find the original and more elaborate edition in Bengali entitled "Vraja Ke Bhakta". If you know the language, check that out.

There are a number of places where you can get them. One is the bookstores at Loi Bazaar, Vrindavan. That would probably be the cheapest alternative. You can also find his books at the publisher, Aravali Books: http://www.aravalibooks.com/new_books.htm . They used to have a website at www.sadhu.net but it seems to be discontinued. Some bits of the biographies in his books you can find from the Raganuga Forums: http://www.raganuga.com/d/ .

<font face="Georgia" color=purple><center> JAYADEVA GOSVAMI</center> Jayadeva was born at Kenduvilva (presently Kenduli) village in the district of Birbhum around the 11th century. According to Vanamali dasa, the author of Jayadevacaritra, and a disciple of Srinivasa Acarya, Jayadeva was alive in the 15th century. It would therefore, seem that the author was not aware of the contemporary historical events during Jayadeva’s lifetime. It is recorded (in an ancient manuscript of Gita Govinda) that Jayadeva was a court pandita during the reign of Raja Laksmana Sena of Gauda. Evidently, Jayadeva was of a much earlier period. Alamkarasekhara, which was written at the command of Raja Manikyacandra, the last ruler of Gauda before the Muslims conquered Delhi, mentions that Jayadeva was a court poet of the Raja of Utkaladesa. Bhaktimahatmya in Sanskrit, and also Bhaktamala, provide information on Jayadeva as follows: At an early age Jayadeva embraced vairagya and migrated to Purusottama ksetra, where he lived by offering seva to Purusottama. Lord Jagannatha was pleased by Jayadeva’s bhakti-bhava. The ruler of Orissa was also extremely fond of him. Jayadeva gave diksa to some of his disciples there. A certain brahmana, who had no issue, worshiped Lord Jagannatha and was blessed with a daughter. After the daughter, who was named Padmavati, grew up, the brahmana took her to Purusottama and offered her to the Lord. The brahmana then received a command from the Lord: “One of my sevaka named Jayadeva has renounced home and has dedicated himself to My service. Go and offer your daughter to him.” The brahmana went to Jayadeva’s place along with Padmavati and after explaining the command of Lord Purusottama he requested Jayadeva to accept Padmavati as his wife. Although Jayadeva refused to marry her, the brahmana left Padmavati with Jayadeva and returned home. Jayadeva was very embarrassed and asked Padmavati, “Where do you wish to go? Come with me and I shall take you there, because you cannot stay here.” With a pathetic voice the girl answered, “At the command of Lord Jagannatha my father has offered me to you, you are my husband, my life. Even if you forsake me, I shall not leave you but serve at your feet to the best of my ability.” Jayadeva had no other alternative but to marry Padmavati and become a householder again. He then installed a Deity of Narayana in the house. With the passage of time Jayadeva’s attachment for Krishna increased and while floating on the waves of Krishna -prema he composed the book of verses entitled Gitagovinda. While Jayadeva was writing this book he had described various rasas and bhavas within his writings yet it still lacked the touch of khandita-madhura-rasa. However, at one point he did not have the courage to depict Sri Krishna , the Jagatpati, Paramapurusa, touching the feet of Radhika, the Prakriti. One day, while Jayadeva had gone out for his routine bath in the sea, Lord Jagannatha Himself, taking the form of Jayadeva, came into the room and wrote down the verse “Dehipadapallavamudaram” in Jayadeva’s manuscript book. Padmavati, who was surprised to see Jayadeva (Lord Jagannatha) had returned so quickly from taking his bath, said, “What is the matter? You just left a few minutes ago, why have you returned so soon?” Sri Krishna, in the guise of Jayadeva said, “While on my way to the sea, a thought occurred to me, I didn’t want to forget it so I came back to note it down.” Soon after Sri Krishna had disappeared, Jayadeva returned from his bath. Padmavati was shocked to see Jayadeva return again so quickly and in her confusion said, “You went for your bath and soon came back to write something down in your book and left again just a few minutes ago. How could you finish your bath within such a short time and return home? I would like to know who was that person who came here to write something down in your book and who are you actually?” Jayadeva, understanding the significance of the incident narrated by Padmavati, at once went inside and quickly opened the book and the divine writing revealed the presence of his Sri Krishna . He felt such ecstasy of love that tears rolled down over his chest. He then called his wife and said, “You are the most fortunate person because you have attained the goal of your birth. You had the darsana of Sri Krishna, and I am such a fallen soul that I have been deprived of the darsana of His manifested Self.” The fame of Gitagovinda spread far and wide. Bhaktas and bhavukas all became overjoyed to hear the song recitals from Gitagovinda. It is said (Visvakosh), that one day a woman gardener was singing verses from Gitagovinda while seated in her garden, when Lord Jagannatha, charmed by the music, arrived there to listen to it. As a result the Lord’s body was covered with dirt and thorns. When Utkalaraja went into the temple he noticed the marks of dirt etc. on the Deity of Lord Jagannatha and immediately called for an explanation from the attendants. The Lord explained the episode of His going to the garden to hear the music of the malini. The Raja at once sent his men to bring the malini before him. The Raja then listened to the musical verses of Gitagovinda rendered by her. The descendants of this malini recite verses from Gitagovinda regularly in the temple of Lord Jagannatha in Puri even today. Greatly appreciating Jayadeva’s work, the Utkalaraja wrote a book himself under the same title and offered it at the lotus feet of Lord Jagannatha. However, Lord Purusottama picked up the book written by the Raja and threw it away, leaving Jayadeva’s Gitagovinda as it is. The incident hurt the Raja so deeply that he decided to jump into the sea and commit suicide. However, Lord Jagannatha appeared on the scene and prevented him from doing so. The Lord pacified the Raja, assuring him that 12 slokas composed by the Raja would be included at the beginning of the book Gitagovinda written by Jayadeva. Since then, verses from Gitagovinda are recited daily at the temple of Lord Jagannatha-Puri. Radhamadhava always took great care of His Jayadeva. It is recorded in Bhaktamala that once Jayadeva was repairing the roof of his cottage during a hot summer afternoon. Lord Hari took pity upon him and to minimized the sufferings of His devotee Jayadeva, The Lord Himself began to drill holes in the covering sheets and pass them to Jayadeva, who was happily thinking that it was his wife Padmavati helping him. However, when he came down after finishing the job he did not find anyone there. Jayadeva realized that he must have been helped by his ever merciful Lord Hari and thus he offered humble prayers to the Lord with renewed devotion. On another occasion Radhamadhava, in the guise of Jayadeva, partook of rice bhoga prepared by Padmavati. Once Jayadeva set out for raising funds for seva and utsava of Radhamadhava from different states. Some dacoits waylaid him and, after looting all his belongings, cut off his limbs and threw Jayadeva’s body in a well. A certain Raja, during his sikara rounds, happened to pass that way, when he heard someone chanting the name of Sri Krishna from inside a well. The Raja then rescued Jayadeva and took him in his own palanquin to the palace. At the advice of Jayadeva, the Raja introduced daily Vaisnava-seva at his palace. One day, the gang of dacoits that had robbed Jayadeva, arrived at the palace disguised as Vaisnavas. Jayadeva recognised them, yet made special arrangements to look after their comfort. Fearing that Jayadeva would take revenge on them and have them killed, the dacoits attempted to escape without success because the royal guards would not allow them to leave the palace without the permission of Jayadeva. However, Jayadeva, having read their minds, made arrangements to pay them sufficient money and had them escorted to a safe place. After traveling some distance, the dacoits took leave of the royal guards saying, “We were employed by a certain Raja to kill Jayadeva. We had cut off his limbs and threw him in a well. He has now come to your palace and become a fraud mahanta. To avoid being detected, Jayadeva paid us money to get rid of us. The dacoits had hardly finished their statement when all of them dropped flat on the ground as if hit by some unseen force. On their return to the palace, the guards narrated the episode before the Raja. Jayadeva then explained the factual incident involving the dacoits and added, “One should be kind even towards evil souls. That is why I showed respect to the dacoits by offering money instead of doing harm to them.” The Maharani and Padmavati had developed a close friendly relationship through constant association. One day the Rani, while discussing the subject of shamarana with Padmavati, began to lament thinking of her own self. Padmavati explained that after the death of a husband, the wife becomes lifeless. The Rani remembered this remark and in order to test the truthfulness of Padmavati, the Rani one day arranged to circulate a false rumor that Jayadeva was dead. Padmavati, true wife that she was, passed away as soon as she heard the news of her husband’s death. Later, Jayadeva brought Padmavati back to life by chanting the holy name in her ear. At that point Jayadeva felt a desire to visit Vrindavana. Taking his Deity Radhamadhava with him he went to Vrindavana and stayed at Kesighata for some time. A certain wealthy devotee, charmed by Radhamadhava, constructed a temple at Kesighata, where the Deity of Radhamadhava was installed. After Jayadeva passed away, the Maharaja of Jaipur took Radhamadhava away with him and had it re-installed at a place called Ghati in Jaipur. During the last stage of his life, Jayadeva returned to his home at Kenduli village and lived there till the end. It is said (Visvakosh) that Jayadeva used to go for a bath in the Ganges daily about 36 miles away from Kenduli. One day he was unable to go and felt disturbed about it. However, to alleviate the distress of her devotee, Gangadevi, came roaring in a stream up to Kenduli village. Jayadeva breathed his last at Kenduli village and in his memory a mela is held every year on the day of Magha-sankranti. More than fifty thousand devotees attend this mela yearly. Jayadeva’s Gitagovinda is considered an invaluable asset by one and all. The book has been translated into Hindi, Bengali, Odiya, Assamese and also into many other foreign languages. The following persons have written tika’s on Gitagovinda: 1) Udayanacarya, 2) Kamalakara, 3) Kumbhakarna Mahendra, 4) Krishna datta, 5) Krishna dasa, 6) Gopala, 7) Caitanyadasa, 8) Narayana Bhatta, 9) Narayanadasa, 10) Pitamvara, 11) Bhagavad dasa, 12) Bhavacarya, 13) Mananka, 14) Ramatarana, 15) Ramadatta, 16) Rupadeva Pandita, 17) Laksmana Bhatta, 18) Laksmana Suri, 19) Vanamali Bhatta, 20) Viththala Diksita, 21) Visvesvara Bhatta, 22) Sankara Misra, 23) Sriharsa, 24) Hridayavarana and others. Besides this, two books of tika entitled Valavodini and Vacanamalika by some unknown authors are also available on Gitagovinda. (Visvakosh Vol. VI p. 663-665) (From Veda.harekrsna.cz, adapted from Gaudiya Vaishnava Abhidhana and other sources)</font>

I will call tomorrow this friend of mine who has the DAT tape and was supposed to make it into a CD for me so I could upload it.

I used to host it off my PC. Nowadays I don't have the resources for it. Going to India in two weeks for a good while. Drop me an e-mail if there's something you're missing.

Yes, as I understand it from the scriptures, bondage is anAdi, literally beginningless. We never started out, we have eternally been rotating in the cycle of maya. Free will is often spoken of, but I wonder if anyone can point me to any passage in the scriptures where free will would be mentioned. What'd the equivalent Sanskrit term be?

You should read Visvanatha's Raga Vartma Candrika (second chapter) and see how he deals with Krishna's simultaneous abhijnata (all-knowingness) and mugdhata (bewilderment). Is there aisvarya in Vraja, what do you think?

The living entity is bound by the shackles of karma since beginnigless time. The past actions bring about the future scenario one is to face. The present and future desires of the living entity are influenced by the past deeds of the living entity. In this way, Bhagavan knows the path of karma for the living being since its infinte past to its infinite future. The function of free will is only imaginary in the context of action in this world. In truth, actual free will, influence of choice, can be applied in a choice between matter/spirit. In other words, the chain of karma is broken by transcendent intervention. An experience which brings the jiva an experience of its existence beyond the shackles of matter brings along with it a possibility for a tangible choice, something not pre-dictated by the laws of karma, but rather arising out of the desire of the Lord. However, let us consider yet another thing: What is the meaning of "free" will? The proposition of absolute free will implies independent existence. However, the living entity is known to be an aspect of the Lord, albeit possessing a separate sense of identity. Given the fact that only the Lord exists, and there is nothing outside of Him, the question of free will is rendered meaningless, as there are no premises on which absolute free will could exist.