raga

I am not actually as much concerned over "initiation" as I am over "diksa". The foundational texts of the tradition speak of diksa in no unclear terms. They are written in Sanskrit and Bengali, and the word "diksa" is consistently used with no meanings far apart from transmitting the diksa-mantra. However, the word "initiation" is used in a vast variety of ways, you find many different glosses on it in Prabhupada's works, which seem to suggest a variety of meanings. In my opinion, to debate over the meaning of an English concept is not as relevant as to get to the roots. Rupa Gosvami says (in Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu): "tasmAd guruM prapadyeta kRSNa-dIkSAdi-zIkSAnAm", emphasizing surrender to guru, receiving Krishna-diksa consequent siksa as the foremost aspects in entering the realm of sadhana-bhakti. Now, "initiation" may be a translation of "dIkSA", "saMskAra", "upanAyana" and god knows what else. In other words, there is little point in debating the meaning of "initiation" at all unless you track it down to a precisely defined original concept. Otherwise, it is just about as stupid as debating over the word "orange" -- A says, "Sun is orange". B says, "No, we eat an orange." B thinks A is childish, A thinks B is a lunatic. Even Merriam-Webster gives a dual meaning to "initiation", the first more resembling what we know as "dIkSA", the second "zIkSA". 1 a : the act or an instance of initiating b : the process of being initiated c : the rites, ceremonies, ordeals, or instructions with which one is made a member of a sect or society or is invested with a particular function or status 2 : the condition of being initiated into some experience or sphere of activity : knowledgeableness

How come theist is so heated up nowadays? One question for you: Would you be willing to reject the words of the Gosvamis in favor of what you feel Prabhupada says? That being asked, let me ask another one: Do you agree that according to the Gosvamis, diksa is defined as the physically present guru's reciting the diksa-mantra into the ear of the disciple?

Yes, what constitutes "initiation" is indeed a mystery. The Sanskrit word "diksa" is clearly defined in the writings of the six Gosvamis as the aural reception of the diksa-mantra from a physically present guru.

Indian.

Nah, I think trying to get people to quickly learn devanagari and make their names into devanagari script from a chart of alphabets will just lead to sooo many weird tattoos! Who will learn the conjuncts from such charts. You might want to get hold of ITranslator99 from Omkarananda Ashram. http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/Itranslt.html Any links to a page where people can figure out modern Hindi spellings of Western names words/names. I love it when they write English words in their wacky phonetic Hindi style.

Here you go.

When you are in a temple, you are in the presence of others. What is inside the heart, that is only between you and him. The love of your heart you keep secret, not showing it to anyone and everyone. Hiding it makes it more cherished, more beautiful and more fascinating. Showing it to everyone makes it vanish.

When you are in a temple, you are in the presence of others. What is inside the heart, that is only between you and him. The love of your heart you keep secret, not showing it to anyone and everyone. Hiding it makes it more cherished, more beautiful and more fascinating. Showing it to everyone makes it vanish.

How many of you follow Hari Bhakti Vilasa to the letter? How many of you have heard of the title? How many of you who heard about it have read one chapter of it, or more? Well, that is the "rules and regulations" book written according to the instructions of Mahaprabhu. Check it out. Most people (about 99.7% of the devotees out there) do not or cannot follow every rule, or even say 20% of what's told in there. All hope is lost for them?

I replied to this one already in the morning. I wonder what happened to my reply. Anyhow, the idea is that you try to behave as respectfully as you can. When you go into the office of your boss, professor or principal, I think you spit out that chewing gum first. Why, then, should this not be done when you go into a temple?

I replied to this one already in the morning. I wonder what happened to my reply. Anyhow, the idea is that you try to behave as respectfully as you can. When you go into the office of your boss, professor or principal, I think you spit out that chewing gum first. Why, then, should this not be done when you go into a temple?

Dedicated posters (such as Anadi and the rest) should kindly sign in with their registered identity. At least that's what I've heard the admin say.

From Narayan Maharaj, obviously. Are you "anadi"?

"Case closed?" What excuses? First try to sort out whether there is anything to be convinced of to begin with. Then talk of excuses. IMHO people who propose that someone is "trying to find excuses", or pass any other convicting statement for that matter, ought to <u>sign their posts</u> and stand behind their words.

"Case closed?" What excuses? First try to sort out whether there is anything to be convinced of to begin with. Then talk of excuses. IMHO people who propose that someone is "trying to find excuses", or pass any other convicting statement for that matter, ought to <u>sign their posts</u> and stand behind their words.

The point is that in the temple you are standing face to face with Him, while in other circumstances we speak of the extension of His omniscience. Take for example sleeping. You can certainly sleep, but you don't go in the temple room and sleep in front of Him. Or what about passing stool. I'm sure you get the idea. It is not a question of cheating, just a question of being considerate of what is appropriate in each circumstance.

The point is that in the temple you are standing face to face with Him, while in other circumstances we speak of the extension of His omniscience. Take for example sleeping. You can certainly sleep, but you don't go in the temple room and sleep in front of Him. Or what about passing stool. I'm sure you get the idea. It is not a question of cheating, just a question of being considerate of what is appropriate in each circumstance.

I think he is brahman realized. They say brahman is beyond the grasp of words and logic. It logically follows that the words of the one who is in brahman are incomprehensible and his statements make no sense.

Graham? Donald? Knackerton? Anders? Wittgenstein? Pretzel? I give up.

I don't think there is any hard and fast rule like this. Some pandits have explained the terminology of eternity as follows: Nitya -- No beginning, no end. Anitya -- Beginning, end. Anadi -- No beginning, end. Ananta -- Beginning, no end. Of course, occasionally such words are used interchangeably.

Basically so. To be precise, we are a manifestation of marginal energy (tatastha-sakti-prakasa). We wish to be fully embraced by the internal energy of Krishna. Let me clarify the origin of the term. It comes up in Caitanya Caritamrita (1.4.79), when the manifestations of Radha are explained. <font color="darkblue">AkAra svabhAva-bhede vraja-devI-gaNa kAya-vyUha-rUpa tAGra rasera kAraNa The Vraja-devis have various forms and natures. They are manifestations of Her form, instruments of rasa."</font color> Those who traverse the path of sadhana, following in the wake of the earlier acaryas, will indeed become akin to these Vraja-devis in their nature and ontological position.

I don't have to force Him much to have Him accept chocolate! Tambula consists of a betelnut and a betel-leaf wrapped around it, and any blend of spices inside along with the nut. The leaf is the more stimulating part of it, the nut itself has practically no effect aside the taste. There are different brands of betel-leaves. In general, the intoxicating effects of betel are mild. The effect is slightly refreshing. Sometimes the pan-wallahs put inside tobacco or bhang. Needless to say, then it becomes more intoxicating, but this evidently has nothing to do with betel itself. I recall hearing that Hari Bhakti Vilasa actually states that one should take the betel-remnants of Radha and Krishna. "Offerings of natural products such as betel nuts, bananas, newly grown wheat, paddy, yogurt and vermillion, carried by the citizens and scattered throughout the city, are all auspicious paraphernalia, according to Vedic civilization, for receiving a prominent guest like a bridegroom, king or spiritual master." (Srimad Bhagavatam, 4.21.4, Prabhupada's purport) Such natural products are very auspicious, befitting for receiving the spiritual master. Nityananda distributed them to all the devotees in the assembly at the Panihati festival. <font color="darkblue">mAlA-candana-tAmbUla zeSa ye Achila zrI-haste prabhu tAhA sabAkAre bAGTi dila (CC Antya 6.98) "With His beautiful hands, the Lord distributed to everyone the left-over garlands, sandalwood paste and tambula."</font color> Raghava Pandit offered betel to Radha and Krishna, distributing the remnants to the devotees. <font color="darkblue">biDA khAoyAilA, kailA caraNa vandana bhakta-gaNe dilA biDA, mAlya-candana (CC Antya 6.121) "He offered the betel, praying at Their feet, then giving the betel, garlands and sandalwood pulp to the devotees."</font color> Vallabha Bhatta did it, too, after the Vaishnavas had taken prasadam. <font color="darkblue">mAlA, candana, guvAka, pAna aneka Anila sabA pUjA kari bhaTTa Anandita haila (CC Antya 7.71) "He brought a lot of garlands, sandalwood pulp, spices and betel. Worshiping everyone with them, Bhatta was blissful."</font color> But what about the statement forbidding the chewing of betel? Read it again: <font color="darkblue">"(24) One should not chew betel before the Deity." (NOD 8) </font color> Even chewing gum you should not chew before the deity, although chewing gum is certainly not an issue outside the temple.

I don't have to force Him much to have Him accept chocolate! Tambula consists of a betelnut and a betel-leaf wrapped around it, and any blend of spices inside along with the nut. The leaf is the more stimulating part of it, the nut itself has practically no effect aside the taste. There are different brands of betel-leaves. In general, the intoxicating effects of betel are mild. The effect is slightly refreshing. Sometimes the pan-wallahs put inside tobacco or bhang. Needless to say, then it becomes more intoxicating, but this evidently has nothing to do with betel itself. I recall hearing that Hari Bhakti Vilasa actually states that one should take the betel-remnants of Radha and Krishna. "Offerings of natural products such as betel nuts, bananas, newly grown wheat, paddy, yogurt and vermillion, carried by the citizens and scattered throughout the city, are all auspicious paraphernalia, according to Vedic civilization, for receiving a prominent guest like a bridegroom, king or spiritual master." (Srimad Bhagavatam, 4.21.4, Prabhupada's purport) Such natural products are very auspicious, befitting for receiving the spiritual master. Nityananda distributed them to all the devotees in the assembly at the Panihati festival. <font color="darkblue">mAlA-candana-tAmbUla zeSa ye Achila zrI-haste prabhu tAhA sabAkAre bAGTi dila (CC Antya 6.98) "With His beautiful hands, the Lord distributed to everyone the left-over garlands, sandalwood paste and tambula."</font color> Raghava Pandit offered betel to Radha and Krishna, distributing the remnants to the devotees. <font color="darkblue">biDA khAoyAilA, kailA caraNa vandana bhakta-gaNe dilA biDA, mAlya-candana (CC Antya 6.121) "He offered the betel, praying at Their feet, then giving the betel, garlands and sandalwood pulp to the devotees."</font color> Vallabha Bhatta did it, too, after the Vaishnavas had taken prasadam. <font color="darkblue">mAlA, candana, guvAka, pAna aneka Anila sabA pUjA kari bhaTTa Anandita haila (CC Antya 7.71) "He brought a lot of garlands, sandalwood pulp, spices and betel. Worshiping everyone with them, Bhatta was blissful."</font color> But what about the statement forbidding the chewing of betel? Read it again: <font color="darkblue">"(24) One should not chew betel before the Deity." (NOD 8) </font color> Even chewing gum you should not chew before the deity, although chewing gum is certainly not an issue outside the temple.

No, I don't personally believe in this falldown philosophy. The bondage of the living entity is beginningless; this is what the scriptures proclaim. How could he have ever forsaken his eternal nature and his loving relationship with Sri Krishna? After all, prema is that love which is never broken, even amidst all obstacles and even when all the reasons for forsaking the relationship are present.

You'd have to be more specific in your definition of a living entity. Certainly whatever is alive is living, there are no dead entities. When something/someone is dead, it is no longer an entity for any practical purposes. Jiva -- the vibhinnamsa-tattva, minute separate parts of the Lord who struggle in this material world; no, the residents of the spiritual world are not of this category. Antaranga-sakti-prakasa -- manifestations of the internal energy of the Lord; yes, that's what they are. The gopis are specifically said to be the kaya-vyuha-rupa of Radharani, specific manifestations of Her own form, while in general everything there is said to be a manifestation of sandhini-sakti (existential potency), one of the three main divisions of internal energy. As for what'll our position be when on one fortunate day we reach the abode of Sri Krishna, as we attain complete shelter under the auspices of the internal energy, we will also be counted among the perfected beings of that world who are eternally united with Hari. There are various locations in the spiritual sky, each suitable for a particular living entity. There are three main categories of the Lord's abodes, Vaikuntha, Dvaraka and Vraja, which are each more complete than the other in the expression of the Lord's all-perfect sweetness and love. Certainly you know of the five primary rasas. They also have a number of subdivisions. At any rate, there is no one single answer for the question, given the multitudes of alternatives. Generally in the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition we aspire for bhavollasa-rati, for becoming maidservants of Srimati Radharani and partaking in the love She has for Sri Krishna.