raga

No, madanakhya-mahabhava.

I pointed out that these charming translations were taken from a thread on Vraja-vasa by Advitiya at the other forum. Surely there cannot be anything wrong with giving references?

Thanks to Jagadananda for giving us the translation of these words of wisdom. (You can give credit to translators even if they aren't followers of Prabhupada.)

This isn't written by Rupa Goswami; Radha-kripa-kataksha-stava-raja is an old, traditional hymn.

These passages are from the translations of Advaita Das, who's made a number of interesting notes on Visvanatha's Sarartha-darshini.

In this thread, most of the verses and translations are collected from Gadadhar Prana Das's "Why Did Chaitanya Mahaprabhu Come, and What Did He Come to Give?".

Knows madanakhya-mahabhava meaning?

Was the reply satisfactory, or do you need something more on this?

I am not one to start defending or challenging it, as the status of the issue is of little consequence to myself personally. However I've heard some explain that the smoking of hukka in the case of some Goswamis is a matter of upholding a certain profile, that they are expected to be doing that by the people. In other words, it's a part of a guru-image and thus serves a particular purpose. As I pointed out earlier, if the disciples don't find something objectionable and in fact expect something, and thus give donations, I don't see it as particularly wrong. Even the TVs and radios of your Sridhar and Govinda Maharajas, are they not sponsored by disciples? Are news in all languages of the world or the Indian cricket league really vital matters for a guru?

I believe "jati-gosani" here refers to the jati-Vaishnavas, that's the way I've heard it often explained. They are a good deal different from the hereditary Goswamis, and are considered unorthodox both by the "orthodoxy" and the Gaudiya Math. Quoting from Bhrigumuni's thesis on guru-tattva (he's from ISKCON/GM, so it should be bonafide /images/graemlins/smile.gif), there's a good section on history there: <font color="#993399">The jati vaisnavas comprise the fourth class of Gaudiya Vaisnavas. Kennedy writes that it consists of the offspring of babajis and matajis, and others who have become Vaisnavas after being rejected by their own community for some reason. (1) The jati vaisnavas consider themselves for religious reasons as voluntarily standing outside the varnasrama system. This community remained more or less unknown until 1901, when the Census of Bengal for the first and last time included a hierarchy of castes, placing the jati vaisnavas very low. However, no less than about 500 000 Hindus claimed to belong to this jati. The religious rites of this community were exclusively Vaisnava, even though much more simple than those of the grhasthas. Marriage, for example, comprised of no more than a change of garlands in front of the guru. The minimal other samskaras that are followed also do not follow the brahmanical standard, but are adaptations of devotional rituals. The low place given to this group in the census of 1901 led to a gradual sanskritisation (2) of it, so that it today appears to have in many places lost its distinctive character, its members being similar to the grhasthas (3) described above. Some classify the jati vaisnavas as heterodox Gaudiya Vaisnavas. (4) 1) Kennedy (1926), 178 2) This term was introduced by M.N. Srinivas to indicate the historical process by which the beliefs and practices of lower castes tend to converge with those of higher groups, as the former try to emulate the latter in order to raise their social status. My usage of this standard term does not indicate that I believe that there is any one Sanskritic Hinduism or clearly distinguishable higher and lower strata of Hinduism. 3) O’Connell (1986), 51-53 4) E.g. Kedarnatha Datta Bhaktivinoda. See Shukavak Dasa (1999), 124. = = = Gaudiya Vaisnava practicioners can be divided into four classes: goswamis or hereditary brahmana gurus; grhasthas or householder laity; babajis or renunciates; and jati vaisnavas or a class of hereditary laymen, originally stemming from wayward renunciates and persons who had been ostracised from their own community. The last group has during the last century to a large extent become amalgamated with the second. There are also some modern groups of Gaudiya Vaisnavas (e.g. ISKCON) that don’t fit into the traditional vamsas and parivaras and who have some peculiar teachings, but that still generally are held to belong to the Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya. </font color>

Though I'm obviously not discounting the need for a devotee to control their various urges, that really isn't what the verse says.¨ First of all, it doesn't speak about being austere. It speaks about controlling the urges. These two aren't necessarily synonymous, there's a great deal of subjectivity in what's befitting for each individual. yuktAhAra-vihArasya etc.

While the title Goswami, or Gosain, is also given to renunciates, it is also frequently used for others. (Vide doya koro sri-acharya advaita-gosai and so forth.) It is also commonly in use as a family name. Why was the father using money from disciples to live such a lavish lifestyle? That I do not know. However one would assume that the disciples were well aware of this, and if they gave nevertheless, it cannot be considered an abuse of the donation as such. While I am not saying this is parallel, as I am not in a position to judge that, one would do well to remember the story of Gadadhar Pandit meeting Pundarika Vidyanidhi before being overly "entertained" by biographical accounts such as this one. Don't just take something from the middle, look at how the story ends; that's something by which you can determine how qualified the individual truly was.

With regards to lobha, please refer to the document posted, and Visvanatha's reference from RVC on gradations of lobha.

It's quite befitting how only certain parts of the story are taken to make the Goswami look bad. It isn't posted how he left all that behind, and it isn't posted what then became of him.

I believe that would be Kusakratha's edition.

Traditionally you'll always want to keep the senior person on your right side (looking from your own perspective, of course when you're standing opposite to them it's the right side). Hence, Radha is on Krishna's left side, Gaura is on Nitai's left side, Krishna is on Balaram's left side and so forth. Therefore the gurus also take a successive position on the left side of their own gurus. According to Bhakti-sandarbha (286), the vyasti-guru (the empowered individual guru) is on the left side of the samasti-guru (aggregate guru). Hence the principle of staying on the left side of the senior exists even in the archetypal guru-features.

Srila Raghunath Das Goswami's Vrata-utsava calendar for 2005-2006 from Sri Krishna Chaitanya Shastra Mandir, now available online! http://www.krishnacaitanya.com/panjika/ The entire panjika is entered in as time permits, more features for printing and viewing to come shortly.

Here are a couple of names collected from various sources I have on file. Acala-dharaka – He who lifted the Govardhana-hill Acyuta –He who is infallible Aghasura-vinasi – He who defeated Agha-demon Barhavatamsaka – He who wears a peacock-feather Bhakta-vatsala – He who is affectionate towars His devotees Bhramaka – He who is a cheat Bimbasya – He whose lips are like bimba-fruits Caru-locana – He who has beautiful eyes Caura-jara-sikha-mani – He who is the crest-jewel of thieves Dama-baddhahvayi – He who was bound with a rope Damodara – He who was bound around the belly Danindra-candra – He who is the king of moonlike tax-collectors Dhenukasura-sanghata – He is the killer of the ass-demon Dhenuka Dina-bandhu – He who is the friend of the fallen Ghana-syama – He who is of a darkish colour (ghana and syama both mean darkish, blackish) Giridhari – He who is the lifter of Govardhan Girivaradhari – He who is lifter of Govardhan, the greatest of mountains Gokulananda – He who gives bliss to Gokula Gokulananda-kari – He who is the cause of Gokula’s bliss Gokula-bandhu – The friend of Gokula Gokula-candra – He who is the moon of Gokula Gokula-ranjana – He who delights Gokula Gokula-vallabha – He who is dear to Gokula Gokulendra – He who is the king of Gokula Gopala – He who is a cowherd-boy Gopala-kamini-jara – He who is the paramour lover of the passionate cowherd ladies Gopala-ramani-bharta – He who is the master of the young wives of the cowherds Gopali-citta-harta – He who stole the minds of the gopis Gopanganavrta – He who is surrounded by beautiful-limbed cowherd ladies Gopa-nari-priya – He who is dear to the wives of the cowherd men Gopa-svami – He who is the lord of the cowherds Gopa-vesa-dhara – He who is dressed like a cowherd Go-patha – He who follows the path of cows Gopati – He who is the master of cows Gopati-nandana – He who is the prince of the cowherds Gopendra-nandana – He who is the son of the king of cowherds Gopika-priti-ranjana – He who delights the gopis with His love Gopi-jana-vallabha – He who is dearmost for the gopis Gopinatha – He who is the master of the gopis, or He whose master are the gopis Gopika-nayanananda – He who delights the eyes of the gopis Gopika-prana-vallabha – He who is lord of the lives of the gopis Gopi-kanta – He who is the lover of the gopis Gopi-prana-dhana – He who is wealth of the life of the gopis Gopi-priya-jana – He who is the dearmost of the gopis Gopi-raksana – He who protects the gopis Gopi-vastra-haraka – He who stole the gopis’ clothes Gopi-vimohana – He who enchants all the gopis Gotra – He who is the protector of cows Govardhana-dhari – He who held up Govardhan with His hand Govinda – He who gives pleasure to cows, gopis, gopas and senses Govinda-gopala – He who is the cowherd boy who gives pleasure to cows, gopis and gopas Hari – He who steals Indivara-dala-syama – He is dark like a blue lotus petal Kama-kala-nidhi – He who is expert in amorous arts Kamalabha – He who is like a lotus Kamalaksa – He who has lotus-eyes Kami – He who is passionate Kana – An affectionate nickname of Krishna Kanhaiya – An affectionate nickname of Krishna Kala-nidhi – He who is a treasurehouse of artistic skils Kalindi-prema-puraka – He who is a flood of love flowing in the Yamuna Kaliya-damana – He who subdues the Kaliya serpent Kamadeva – He who is the god of love Kamala-locana – He who has lotus eyes Kamala-mukha-lolaksa – He who looks at Radha’s face with eager eyes Kamala-patraksa – He whose eyes are like the petals of lotus flowers Kandarpa – He who is like Cupid Kandarpa-dipanah – He who awakens amorous desires Kandarpa-koti-lavanya – He who is equal to millions of Cupids Karuna-sindhu – He who is an ocean of mercy Kesava – He who has beautiful hair Kesi-ha – He who killed the Kesi-demon Kesi-vadha – He who killed the Kesi-demon Kisora – He who is a youthful boy Kokila-svara-bhusana – He who is ornamented with a voice like that of the cuckoo-birds Krpa-kara – He who is merciful Krsna-candra – The moonlike all-attractive one Kunja-bihari – He who enjoys in the forest groves Lavanya-lahari-sindhuh – He who is an ocean of waves of handsomeness Lila-kamala-pujita – He who is worshiped with a pastime lotus Lila-manusa-vigraha – He who enjoys pastimes in a human form Madana-manohara – He who steals the mind of Cupid Madana-mohana – He who enchants Cupid Madana-gopala – He who is a Cupid-like cowherd boy Madhava – He who is beautiful like the spring-season, who is intoxicating like honey-wine, and who … Madhumardana – He who extracts honey Madhusudana – He who defeated the Madhu-demon, or He who defeats honey in sweetness, and He is the husband (dhava) of all beauty (ma). Mala-kara – He who makes garlands Manohara – He who captures the mind Mina-ketana – He who is like Cupid Mukunda – He who is the giver of liberation Murali-manohara – He who enchants with his fluteplaying Murali-vadana – He who is the player of flute Murari – He who is the enemy of Mura-demon Nagara – He who is a lover Nanda-dulala – He who is the dear son of Nanda Nanda-gopala – He who is the cowherd boy of Nanda Nanda-kumara – He who is the son of Nanda Nanda-nandana – He who is the son of Nanda Nanda-kisora – He who is the youthful son of Nanda Nanda-suta – He who is the son of Nanda Nanda-tanuja - He who is the son of Nanda Navanitasana – He who enjoys fresh butter Navanita-taskara – He who steals fresh butter Nava-yauvana – He who is eternally youthful Navina nirada – He who is like a fresh raincloud Parama-karuna – He who is supremely merciful Phullaravinda-nayana – He whose eyes are like blossoming lotuses Pitambara – He who is dressed in yellow clothes Prananatha – He who is the lord of life (of the Vrajavasis) Prema-niketana – He who is a divine abode of prema Priya-karaka – He who acts in a lovely way Pundarika – He who is like a lotus flower Pundarikaksa – He whose eyes are like lotuses Putana-moksa-dayaka – He who liberated Putana Radhalingana-sammoha – He who is bewildered by Radha’s embraces Radharadhayita – He who worships Radha Radha-citta-pramodaka – He who delights the mind of Radha Radha-hrdayambhoja-satpada – He who is the bumblebee attracted to the lotus of Radha’s heart Radha-kama-phala-prada – He who gives the fruit of Radha’s desires Radha-kanta – He who is a lover of Radha Radha-manmatha-vaibhava – He who is the Cupid who attracts Radha Radha-mohana – He who enchants Radha Radha-mukhabja-martanda – He who is the sun who makes the lotus of Radha’s face bloom Radha-nartana-kautuka – He who is eager to dance with Radha Radha-nayaka – He who is the lover of Radha Radha-natha – He who is the lord of Radha Radha-pati – He who is the master of Radha Radha-prana-natha –He who is the lord of Radha’s life Radha-prana-sama – He to whom Radha is as dear as His life Radha-ramana – He who gives pleasure to Radha Radha-rati-sukhopeta – He who enjoys amorous pastimes with Radha Radha-sanjata-sampriti – He who is overjoyed because of Radha Radha-vadanabja-madhuvrata – He who is a bee attracted to Radha’ lotus face Radha-vallabha – He who is the beloved of Radha Radha-vasi-kara – He who fascinates Radha Radhikanandana – He who gives bliss to Radhika Radhika-ranjana – He who delights Radhika Radhika-ramana – He who gives pleasure to Radhika Radhikanatha – He who is the lord of Radhika Rajiva-locana – He whose eyes are like lotuses Rama – He who gives pleasure, He who enjoys Ranga – He who enjoys Ranga-mahiruha – He who is a tree of enjoyment Ranjaka – He who is charming Ranjana – He who is charming Rasavihari – He who is the enjoyer of rasa Rasaraja – He who is the king of relishers Rasa-rasayana – He who brings nectar of life to the rasa-dance Rasika-sekhara – He who is the best among enjoyers of rasa Rasikendra-sekhara – He who is the king among the best relishers of rasa Rasikendra-cudamani – He who is the crown-jewel among the kings of rasa Sankhacuda-vadhoddama – He who killed Sankhacuda-demon Sarva-kama-pradayaka – He who is the fulfiller of all desires Sikhanda-cudaya – He who wears a peacock-feather in His head Sindura-tulitadharah – He whose lips are red like sindura Srngara-murti – He who is the very form of amorous love Subha-darsana – He who is beautiful to behold Su-bhru-yugala – He whose two eyebrows are beautiful Su-kapola-yuga – He whose two cheeks are beautiful Su-lalataka – He whose forehead is beautiful Sundara – He who is beautiful Syama – He who has a darkish complexion Syamasundara – The beautiful, bluish Krishna Tribhangi – He whose form is bent from three places Trnavartantaka – He who was the end of Trinavarta demon Ujjvala-vigraha – He who is the very form of conjugal love Ulukhali – He who was bound to a grinding mortar Vanamali – He who wears a beautiful garland of forest flowers Vamsi-dhari – He who carries a flute in with Him Vamsi-vihari – He who rejoices in playing His flute Vamsi-gopala – He who is the flute playing cowherdboy Vamsivata-vihari – He who enjoys at Vamsivata Venu-vadya-visarada – He who is an expert flute-player Visalaksa – He who has large eyes Vraja-jana-palana – He who protects the Vrajavasis Vraja-mohana – He who bewilders Vraja Vraja Uttamsa – The flower-crown of Vraja Vrajendra-nandana – He who is the son of the king of Vraja Vrajera rakhala – He who is the protector of Vraja Vrndapati – He who is the master of Vrinda Vrndavana-candra – He who is the moon of Vrindavana Vrndavana-cara – He who roams in the forests of Vrindavana Vrndavana-natavara – He who is the most expert dancer in Vrindavana Vrsabhanusuta-pati – He who is the master of the daughter of Vrisabhanu Vrsasura-vighataka – He who defeated the Vrisa (Arista) demon. Yamalarjuna-mukti-da – He who liberated the Yamalarjuna-trees Yamuna-tira-sacari – He who wanders on the banks of Yamuna Yasoda-dulala – He who is the darling son of Yasoda Yasoda-khani-mani – He who is a jewel from Yasoda’s womb Yasoda-nandana – He who is Yasoda’s son Yasoda-vatsala – He who loves Yasoda Yasoda-yasa – He who is the fame of Yasoda Yasomati-nandana – He who is Yasoda’s son

I've said my share on this for now. If someone wants to follow up on some things I've mentioned, you know how to find me. I find this thread heading to a too scattered and distasteful direction to merit addressing any more points, lest they be raped by some of our gracious audience.

I hate to break the news, but this proposal is really off the wall. However there is no order to perform sankirtana of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra as far as I know. That notwithstanding, since it is not in opposition to their instruction to perform harinam-sankirtan, this approach has been widely adopted.

As I pointed out, that is how I choose to see it, and that is a sensible view of it in my judgement. You can infer all kinds of views from all kinds of stories, of course. However even yourself, you're now saying that there was "a palm-leaf with the names of the siddha-gurus listed on it". Doesn't that mean it is necessary, then? I didn't get a satisfactory answer to my response to your point about Jagannath Das Babaji. You said he didn't practice siddha-pranali, to which I pointed out that I have even myself seen siddha-pranalikas traced through him, pranalikas that he obviously gave to his disciples. You then replied that you follow the siksha-parampara. However that doesn't change the fact that the evidence of Jagannath Das Babaji's having followed the "siddha-pranali system" is irrefutable. If memory serves, he was at the bank of the river while meditating on his manjari-svarupa and then came across the anklet. He certainly was acquainted with his manjari-deha prior to the incident. There are several versions to the story, but I can't recall any of them differing in this respect.

No, that isn't concerning siddha-pranali in BRS. That's concerning the svarupa of the jiva as latent or otherwise. Did you notice the account of Gopal Bhatta Goswami bestowing kama-gayatri and siddha-deha to Shrinivas, cited in the document I posted? I believe that's an important precedent. Now, one may say that there isn't a pranali given there, just the siddha-deha of Gopal Bhatta and of his disciple, Shrinivas. However, consider this: That's all there was to the pranali at that time, since Gopal Bhatta is one of the ashta-manjaris and hence at the root of the pranali. With regards to biographical accounts, I also recall hearing of an account of Advaita Acharya revealing someone's siddha-deha, narrated in one of these biographical works, but I've never tracked it down. It is true that siddha-pranali as such isn't explicitly spelled out in the writings of the Goswamis. However the legitimate theological premises for the practice are there, that can hardly be contested. As mentioned, Dhyanachandra Goswami, and his guru Gopal Guru Goswami, wrote of such practice in their paddhatis. (Unfortunately I have only Dhyanachandra's paddhati at my disposal, I hear they are fairly identical.) The way you'll see it practiced nowadays (aside complaints about people not being qualified, I mean in its shape) is how the tradition came to practically implement the dilemma described in my essay about contemplating on siddha-deha during the stage of sadhana. That's the way it has been practiced for centuries, and the practice is virtually universal among Gaudiyas seeking for manjari-bhava outside the Gaudiya Math and its offshoots. As to whether someone can attain his siddha-deha without first hearing of it from the guru: Yes, in principle it is possible on the strength of extremely strong samskaras of bhajana from the previous life. However, for someone without prior bhakti-samskaras such attainment will be troublesome, as the sadhaka's conception will not be clear. This is why you read in Bhaktivinoda's Jaiva Dharma the hearing of ekAdaza-bhAva labeled as upAsaka-parizkRti, or the refinement of the worshiper's conception as some have aptly translated it. It is also, in theory, possible to attain Krishna without hearing descriptions of him. Let all that awaken from within, one may say, why should I hear about it from a guru. Or descriptions of Radha and the sakhis, why should I hear all that. It isn't really necessary since the holy name has the power to reveal everything. And why should I hear of my own svarupa? The holy name reveals it whenever is the time for it. That does not stand to reason, as far as I am concerned.

The reason why I'm saying it'll be there in a week or so is I need to dig through the commentaries before saying much on the topic. I'll get back to you with this one by e-mail. There are also points I wish to make regarding the passage of Brahmasutra you cite, however for that I'll have to go over the entire section with good time and compare some other tikas as well. BTW if you have GB or other works in Sanskrit that we don't have at GGM, consider sharing them for the good of everyone?

Would you happen to have the Sanskrit for this section of the commentary at your disposal? Unfortunately I also have just a translation here. Is that Kusakratha's you're presenting? I'd like to get to the bottom of this. There is also a body of evidence from Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu I came across in my recent studies that hasn't been brought up or addressed in this debate. (Expect to see more on that in a week or so at you-know-where.)

And this is precisely the reason why I am not responding to a good many of the things you keep educating others about. If you do not entertain even a theoretical possibility that there might be a vision more correct than yours, what's the point in discussing. kRpAlaGkAra and rUpAlaGkAra - I already pointed out twice that the second is what Visvanath Chakravarti supports as the correct reading. If you want to disagree with him in favor of what you find the more esoteric alternative (without understanding the esoterica of Radharani's left-over ornaments), please be my guest.