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veluthukaran

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  1. "i do not know why the clinics save them for some time. could you please give some basics of this science please?" they are saved (frozen) in case couple wants to have another child. if not, they are discarded because space is limited and there is a surcharge of course... in either case, these fertilized eggs (yes they are fertilized with sperm, how else do they become embryos) are thrown away. your leader that you bow down to, bush, does not want to the government to fund this, so now korea and china and other countries will surpass US. "sciecne is like a gun, and dharma is like the user of the gun. get it?" yes, to not shoot, or to not use these discarded embryos, is adharma. but go side with your chrisitin fundmentalist friends...go on. to you, bush represents dharma and gandhiji represents adharma! if you need a job why don't you sign up for military and go kill the muslims so bin laden's family can get rich off that to fund more terrorist training camps for you to fight against. what a waste of a life man!
  2. okay, so i ask you directly. is it through ignorance that you want bharat destroyed or choice? also, why do you play word games when your english is so limited in the first place? bharat zindabad! long live gandhiji!
  3. why does he support iraq war? does he not know that US-Saudi are making billions off the reconstruction, and that this money is used to fund terrorist groups in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir? does maadav support this war knowing this, or is he just ignorant? support bharat, oppose the iraq war.
  4. maadavji, what indian languages you speak plese? in which state you were born or raised please? what histoy of bharat you know please? what scripture you read please? what type of engineer are you please? why you come to america please? was it for sri krsna please? or for personal wealth please?
  5. maadav, your ignorance know no bounds! you are a fool just like those chrisitian fundamentalists that seek to comment on science without having no knowledge of it. embryonic stem cell research will save lives. the embryos are from fertility clinics and they will be thrown away after some years in storage anyways so why not use them for some good. hindus like you will destroy bharat with your ignorance. science will save bharat.
  6. loved more than gandhiji? this is too funny... kills a human being that did no harm to any other and justify it by saying he loves hindus. i'm sure all of bharat is thankful for him, and if not, it is clear that majority of bharat are fools for not wanting a nathuram holiday. with all respect, this is your opinion only...and you are in the minority. yes, gandhiji was anti-hindu...he was secretly a muslim. he even secretly wanted great britain to keep control of bharat and was a hindrance to the people's movement to home rule. i think you and people like you have jealously of gandhiji. this serves no purpose. Sri Krsna is not a fool and He can do whatever he wants because he is Supreme God. members of RSS do not speak for Sri Krsna and do not have this characteristic. therefore we must rely on ahimsa, and ahimsa means using violence if there is absolutely no other way to stop violence. again read: Anasaktiyogaga (Introduction) http://members.aol.com/jajnsn/anasa.html 7. Now about the message of the Gita. 8. Even in 1888-89, when I first became acquainted with the Gita, I felt that it was not a historical work, but that, under the guise of physical warfare, it described the duel that perpetually went on in the hearts mankind, and that physical warfare was brought in merely to make the description of the internal duel more alluring. This preliminary intuition became more confirmed on a closer study of religion and the Gita. A study of the Mahabharata gave it added confirmation. I do not regard the Mahabharata as a historical work in the accepted sense. The Adiparva contains powerful evidence in support of my opinion. By ascribing to the chief actors superhuman or subhuman origins, the great Vyasa made short work the history of kings and their peoples. The persons therein described may be historical, but the author of the Mahabharata has used them merely to drive home his religious theme. 9. The author of the Mahabharata has not established the necessity of physical warfare; on the contrary he has proved its futility. He has made the victors shed tears of sorrow and repentance, and has left them nothing but a legacy of miseries. 10. In this great work the Gita is the crown. Its second chapter, instead of teaching the rules of physical warfare, tells us how a perfected man is to be known. In the characteristics of the perfected man of the Gita, I do not see any to correspond to physical warfare. Its whole design is inconsistent with the rules of conduct governing the relations between warring parties. you are allowed to be engineer (does this fulfill your svadharma?) in USA because Martin Luther King Jr. was influenced by Gandhiji. I am allowed to study medicine for same reasons. i like this accomplishment. I have no pride. you misinterpreted. Muslims way is violence, but their violence did not accomplish their objective in Bharat, to convert all of Bharat (failure of Islam and Muslims). Look at Muslims everywhere and their situation. Look at failure in Pakistan/Bangladesh. Look at how they are made to suffer and no one helps them. It is their karma. Bangladeshis now leave their country because no jobs. they are failures. yes, don't repeat their mistakes. we do not have interests. we only do what pleases Sri Krsna. yes, we will lose lives. when they harm us and we do not retaliate. a satyagrahi understands this. bharat must find a way to fund ashrams to create more satyagrahis. violence begets violence, you should know that. ahimsa means doing no harm, this means that you can use violence as a last resort to prevent a greater violence. we hindus are better off than muslims in the world. violence did not work for them. their religion will deteriorate because it is UnTruth. Their people will destroy themselves. Look how they fight and suffer, that's all they do. we are better off than them. violence got them nothing but more people to share their suffering. please do not go down path of sharing their suffering by going down to their level. you mention very special people under very special circumstances. people have different interpretations, only way to know who is right is to meet sri krsna Himself by moksa. How many life cycles before you meet Him? since as an engineer you work for a boss/supervisor and not sri krsna alone, i can only assume you are sudra and not bhramin, meaning many life cyles after me. the muslims in general. the pakistanis who have no identity. the arab youth whose future is to blow themselves up. the bangladeshis who have no job. and the hindus who would follow in their footsteps... only Sri Krsna wins.
  7. your information is off, i have been to kerala many times. There is no conversion movement over there, mostly everyone is peaceful and there is no need to convert anyone, though there is conversion of dalits to chrisitianity (this should be stopped, but we need the laws to do this!), but definitely not msulim religion. kerala is a peaceful place with tolerance. only now, bjp is trying to enter into kerala to cause troubles. i pray they leave god's country that parasurama created. we were fine when marxists were in control. your percentage is off too, more like 60% hindu and rest chrisitans and muslims mix.
  8. Anasaktiyogaga (Introduction) http://members.aol.com/jajnsn/anasa.html 7. Now about the message of the Gita. 8. Even in 1888-89, when I first became acquainted with the Gita, I felt that it was not a historical work, but that, under the guise of physical warfare, it described the duel that perpetually went on in the hearts mankind, and that physical warfare was brought in merely to make the description of the internal duel more alluring. This preliminary intuition became more confirmed on a closer study of religion and the Gita. A study of the Mahabharata gave it added confirmation. I do not regard the Mahabharata as a historical work in the accepted sense. The Adiparva contains powerful evidence in support of my opinion. By ascribing to the chief actors superhuman or subhuman origins, the great Vyasa made short work the history of kings and their peoples. The persons therein described may be historical, but the author of the Mahabharata has used them merely to drive home his religious theme. 9. The author of the Mahabharata has not established the necessity of physical warfare; on the contrary he has proved its futility. He has made the victors shed tears of sorrow and repentance, and has left them nothing but a legacy of miseries. 10. In this great work the Gita is the crown. Its second chapter, instead of teaching the rules of physical warfare, tells us how a perfected man is to be known. In the characteristics of the perfected man of the Gita, I do not see any to correspond to physical warfare. Its whole design is inconsistent with the rules of conduct governing the relations between warring parties. 11. Krishna of the Gita is perfection and right knowledge personified; but the picture is imaginary. That does not mean that Krishna, the adored of his people, never lived. But perfection is imagined. The idea of a perfect incarnation is an aftergrowth. 12. In Hinduism, incarnation is ascribed to one who has performed some extraordinary service of mankind. All embodied life is in reality an incarnation of God, but it is not usual to consider every living being an incarnation. Future generations pay this homage to one who, in his own generation, has been extraordinarily religious in his conduct. I can see nothing wrong in this procedure; it takes nothing from God's greatness, and there is no violence done to Truth. There is an Urdu saying which means, "Adam is not God but he is a spark of the Divine." And therefore he who is the most religiously behaved has most of the divine spark in him. It is in accordance with this train of thought that Krishna enjoys, in Hinduism, the status of the most perfect incarnation. 13. This belief in incarnation is a testimony of man's lofty spiritual ambition. Man is not at peace with himself til he has become like unto God. The endeavour to reach this state is the supreme, the only ambition worth having. And this is self-realization. This self-realization is the subject of the Gita, as it is of all scriptures. But its author surely did not write it to establish that doctrine. The object of the Gita appears to me to be that of showing the most excellent way to attain self-realization. That which is to be found, more or less clearly, spread out here and there in Hindu religious books, has been brought out in the clearest possible language in the Gita even at the risk of repetition. 14. That matchless remedy is renunciation of fruits of action. 15. This is the centre round which the Gita is woven. This renunciation is the central sun, round which devotion, knowledge and the rest revolve like planets. The body has been likened to a prison. There must be action where there is body. Not one embodied being is exempted from labour. And yet all religions proclaim that it is possible for man, by treating the body as the temple of God, to attain freedom. Every action is tainted, be it ever so trivial. How can the body be made the temple of God? In other words how can one be free from action, i.e. from the taint of sin? The Gita has answered the question in decisive language: "By desireless action; by renouncing fruits of action; by dedicating all activities to God, i.e., by surrendering oneself to Him body and soul." 16. But desirelessness or renunciation does not come for the mere talking about it. It is not attained by intellectual feat. It is attainable only by a constant heart-churn. Right knowledge is necessary for attaining renunciation. Learned men possess a knowledge of a kind. They may recite the Vedas from memory, yet they may be steeped in self-indulgence. In order that knowledge may not run riot, the author of the Gita has insisted on devotion accompanying it and has given it the first place. Knowledge without devotion will be like a misfire. Therefore, says the Gita, "Have devotion, and knowledge will follow." This devotion is not mere lip worship, it is a wrestling with death. Hence, the Gita's assessment of the devotee's quality is similar to that of the sage. 17. Thus the devotion required by the Gita is no soft-hearted effusiveness. It certainly is not blind faith. The devotion of the Gita has the least to do with the externals. A devotee may use, if he likes, rosaries, forehead marks, make offerings, but these things are no test of his devotion. He is the devotee who is jealous of none, who is a fount of mercy, who is without egotism, who is selfless, who treats alike cold and heat, happiness and misery, who is ever forgiving, who is always contented, whose resolutions are firm, who has dedicated mind and soul to God, who causes no dread, who is not afraid of others, who is free from exultation, sorrow and fear, who is pure, who is versed in action and yet remains unaffected by it, who renounces all fruit, good or bad, who treats friend and foe alike, who is untouched by respect or disrespect, who is not puffed up by praise, who does not go under when people speak ill of him who loves silence and solitude, who has a disciplined reason. Such devotion is inconsistent with the existence at the same time of strong attachments. 18. We thus see that to be a real devotee is to realize oneself. Self-realization is not something apart. One rupee can purchase for us poison or nectar, but knowledge or devotion cannot buy us salvation or bondage. These are not media of exchange. They are themselves the thing we want. In other words, if the means and the end are not identical, they are almost so. The extreme of means is salvation. Salvation of the Gita is perfect peace. 19. But such knowledge and devotion, to be true, have to stand the test of renunciation of fruits of action. Mere knowledge of right and wrong will not make one fit for salvation. According to common notions, a mere learned man will pass as a pandit. He need not perform any service. He will regard as bondage even to lift a little lota. Where one test of knowledge is non-liability for service, there is no room for such mundane work as the lifting of a lota. 20. Or take bhakti. The popular notion of bhakti is soft-heartedness, telling beads and the like, and disdaining to do even a loving service, least the telling of beads etc. might be interrupted. This bhakti, therefore, leaves the rosary only for eating, drinking and the like, never for grinding corn or nursing patients. 21. But the Gita says: No one has attained his goal without action. Even men like Janaka attained salvation through action. If even I were lazily to cease working, the world would not perish. How much more necessary then for the people at large to engage in action. 22. While on the one hand it is beyond dispute that all action binds, on the other hand it is equally true that all living beings have to do some work, whether they will or no. Here all activity, whether mental or physical is to be included in the term action. Then how is one to be free from the bondage of action, even though he may be acting? The manner in which the Gita has solved the problem is to my knowledge unique. The Gita says: 'Do your allotted work but renounce its fruit--be detached and work--have no desire for reward and work.' This is the unmistakable teaching of the Gita. He who gives up action falls. He who gives up only the reward rises. But renunciation of fruit in no way means indifference to the result. In regard to every action one must know the result that is expected to follow, the means thereto, and the capacity for it. He, who, being thus equipped, is without desire for the result and is yet wholly engrossed in the due fulfillment of the task before him is said to have renounced the fruits of his action. 23. Again let no one consider renunciation to mean want of fruit for the renouncer. The Gita reading does not warrant such a meaning. Renunciation means absence of hankering after fruit. As a matter of fact, he who renounces reaps a thousandfold. The renunciation of the Gita is the acid test of faith. He who is ever brooding over result often loses nerve in the performance of his duty. He becomes impatient and then gives vent to anger and begins to do unworthy things; he jumps from action to action never remaining faithful to any. He who broods over results is like a man given to objects of senses; he is ever distracted, he says goodbye to all scruples, everything is right in his estimation and he therefore resorts to means fair and foul to attain his end. 24. From the bitter experiences of desire for fruit the author of the Gita discovered the path of renunciation of fruit and put it before the world in a most convincing manner. The common belief is that religion is always opposed to material good. "One cannot act religiously in mercantile and such other matters. There is no place for religion in such pursuits; religion is only for attainment of salvation," we here many worldly-wise people say. In my opinion the author of the Gita has dispelled this delusion. He has drawn no line of demarcation between salvation and worldly pursuits. On the contrary he has shown that religion must rule even our worldly pursuits. I have felt that the Gita teaches us that what cannot be followed out in day-to-day practice cannot be called religion. Thus, according to the Gita, all acts that are incapable of being performed without attachment are taboo. This golden rule saves mankind from many a pitfall. According to this interpretation murder, lying, dissoluteness and the like must be regarded as sinful and therefore taboo. Man's life then becomes simple, and from that simpleness springs peace. 25. Thinking along these lines, I have felt that in trying to enforce in one's life the central teaching of the Gita, one is bound to follow Truth and ahimsa. When there is no desire for fruit, there is no temptation for untruth or himsa. Take any instance of untruth or violence, and it will be found that at its back was the desire to attain the cherished end. But it may be freely admitted that the Gita was not written to establish ahimsa. It was an accepted and primary duty even before the Gita age. The Gita had to deliver the message of renunciation of fruit. This is clearly brought out as early as the second chapter. 26. But if the Gita believed in ahimsa or it was included in desirelessness, why did the author take a warlike illustration? When the Gita was written, although people believed in ahimsa, wars were not only not taboo, but nobody observed the contradiction between them and ahimsa. 27. In assessing the implications of renunciation of fruit, we are not required to probe the mind of the author of the Gita as to his limitations of ahimsa and the like. Because a poet puts a particular truth before the world, it does not necessarily follow that he has known or worked out all its great consequences or that having done so, he is able always to express them fully. In this perhaps lies the greatness of the poem and the poet. A poet's meaning is limitless. Like man, the meaning of great writings suffers evolution. On examining the history of languages, we noticed that the meaning of important words has changed or expanded. This is true of the Gita. The author has himself extended the meanings of some of the current words. We are able to discover this even on superficial examination. It is possible that, in the age prior to that of the Gita, offering of animals as sacrifice was permissible. But there is not a trace of it in the sacrifice in the Gita sense. In the Gita continuous concentration on God is the king of sacrifices. The third chapter seems to show that sacrifice chiefly means body-labour for service. The third and fourth chapters read together will use other meanings for sacrifice, but never animal-sacrifice. Similarly has the meaning of the word sannyasa undergone, in the Gita, a transformation. The sannyasa of the Gita will not tolerate complete cessation of all activity. The sannyasa of the Gita is all work and yet no work. Thus the author of the Gita, by extending meanings of words, has taught us to imitate him. Let it be granted, that according to the letter of the Gita it is possible to say that warfare is consistent with renunciation of fruit. But after forty years' unremitting endeavor fully to enforce the teaching of the Gita in my own life, I have in all humility felt that perfect renunciation is impossible without perfect observance of ahimsa in every shape and form. 28. The Gita is not an aphoristic work; it is a great religious poem. The deeper you dive into it, the richer the meanings you get. It being meant for the people at large, there is pleasing repetition. With every age the important words will carry new and expanding meanings. But its central teaching will never vary. The teacher is at liberty to extract from this treasure any meaning he likes so as to enable him to enforce in his life the central teaching. 29. Nor is the Gita a collection of Do's and Dont's. What is lawful for one may be unlawful for another. What may be permissible at one time, or in one place, may not be so at another time, and in another place. Desire for fruit is the only universal prohibition. Desirelessness is obligatory. 30. The Gita has sung the praises of Knowledge, but it is beyond the mere intellect; it is essentially addressed to the heart and capable of being understood by the heart. Therefore the Gita is not for those who have no faith. The author makes Krishna say: "Do not entrust this treasure to him who is without sacrifice, without devotion, without the desire for this teaching and who denies Me. On the other hand, those who will give this precious treasure to My devotees will, by the fact of this service, assuredly reach me. And those who, being free from malice, will with faith absorb this teaching, shall, having attained freedom, live where people of true merit go after death.
  9. first of all, who is to say when all nonviolent solutions have been carried out? no, hindus cannot trust musharraf. same with pakistanis. when was the last election in pakistan? how has pakistan/bangladesh prospered since partition? for once, i finally understand what you are saying though. the middle east respects brute force and violence, because that is their foundation. the question is, are you personally willing to be the perpetrator of the violence "necessary" to squash islam out of bharat, or would you instead sit back while others do it for you? and who would these people of action be? ksatriyas or some other group? who would lead them? ksatriyas or some other group? that said, violent solutions never worked in bharat. Mughals could not convert all of Bharat. Arabs could not convert all of Bharat. British could not maintain control of all of Bharat and were embarassed out of it. RSS tactics never worked in bharat because fighting against muslims were carried out by sudras, not ksatriyas, lead by brahmins, not ksatriyas. this is the truth, speaking as a hindu born and raised in US, but my view might be different from yours. nonviolent solutions have always worked, perhaps not right away, but always. and a muslim did not assasinate gandhiji, so you cannot say he failed with the muslims. The Gita According to Gandhiji: http://members.aol.com/jajnsn/
  10. where do kashmiri terrorists and al quaida come from? Pakistan Iraqi are Arabs mostly, no one speaks Persian there. What is all this talk about Bharat fighting countries?Bharat will be the most successful country when we focus on educating all of its children. Pakistan can spend time putting its children into madrasahs to learn verses of the koran, while we teach computers to 5 year olds. pakistan has no future, just like most islamic countries. their religion will destroy them in the end or they desert their religion. in this time, bharat will still taller. pakistan is a joke country and bangladeshis are coming into west bengal to get work so they are jokes too for leaving bharat. bangladeshis should be deported from bharat back to "their" country.
  11. No wonder Afghanisthan and persia(iraq)are in current status --------- eh? persia is iran, totally different... afghanistan has antagonistic relationship with iran, what are you saying? bharat and iran have good relationship, and now with current afghan leadership (once taliban removed from power, but now coming back). afghanis like our naan so what is problem?
  12. fool? karna knew very well what he did, he understood the choice and consequences, that is what makes him so honorable to me. he is not a sentimental fool. why yudhisthira respeceted as Dharmaraja when Yudhisthira dressed as Brahmin and acted like Brahmin along with Pandavas?
  13. in matrix revolutions when Neo is talking to Rama Kandra, Rama says he is not leaving the machine world because it is his karma, or "what I am here to do." I thought that this was dharma? How could such a blatant mistake be made, or is this definition correct?
  14. basically Aryans originated from india. they left because all the good jobs were taken up and they could not get a seat in the top institutions and universities. /images/graemlins/smile.gif all jokes aside, this is kali yuga, where almost everyone is sudra. as maadav says, "please read gita to learn how to identify varna by gunas and karma."
  15. mahabharata and ramayana was not written all at once. there are many version from different parts of india, all adding their own side stories and the such. basis for epics may be historical (there was a war and there is archeological evidence), but author(s) may have created stories out of them. gandhi viewed epics as allegories to convey a spiritual message, nothing more. do not be blind.
  16. this was already discussed. varna determined by gunas and karma (read gita to learn to identify). varna not necessarily passed down by birth. caste is not varna. eckalavya was excellent archer, but it was not of his dharma. sri krsna said better to follow you svadharma poorly than to follow someone else's dharma
  17. maadav-- what specifically do you think has declined in the correct understanding and practice of hinduism? Varnasrama dharma?
  18. i'm interested in learning more about advaita, it just seems right to me. is there a forum for this?
  19. i'm not sure if this is true. this seems to be buddhist philosophy, no? a kshatriya may follow his svadharma and understand scripture, but he would not be considered brahmin.
  20. though not utterly interesting, "white-complexioned man," from velumpan, in malayalam. malayalam is a language spoken in southwest indian state of kerala, bordering arabian sea. It essentially is an offshoot of Tamil language with Sanskritization of some words. Words like mukham (face in malayalam) are taken from Sanskrit, though syntax is entirely from Proto-Dravidian languages. "karan" generally means "a man" so typically malayalee house names are based on occupation/characteristics/personality of ancestor. Examples: Kadakkaran - shop-keeper Kadhakaran- story writer Kadathukaran - boatman of a ferry Ezhuthukaran - writer Ayudha Sajjeekarana - arms/weapons handler Eduthuchattakkaran - an upstart, rash man Edakoodakkaran- trouble maker etc....hope that was enlightening.
  21. you are free to think so. please do not waste time here. convert the muslims first. islam is the greatest threat to xianity. koran instructs to convert or kill. gita/krishna says never to convert by force, and never kill one if he/she is not a criminal. you cannot find a better friend than hindus. just do not think of converting them please. -------------------- well said maadav.
  22. "...and wants to be your king." proof?
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