Ganeshprasad

Pranam

Brother I am a Muslim and Muslim means a person who submits his will to God. So I will do what my Allah told me to do.

Good for you, I respect your worship but learn to afford the same to others who may not have your faith.

As I said lord Krishna does not compel us to do his will because in bhakti it is love that is paramount.

We human beings are created by Allah and we are imperfect but Allah is perfect, he does not need anyone, but we need him.

Vedas describe the creation as in perfect harmony because every thing that emanates from God is perfect, so your assertion that God created imperfect being is an insult, it is another matter that we choose to rebel in his creation and cause havoc.

so you saying that I will worship God as I see fit is unacceptable and no hindu will agree with you if he is a good hindu.

So you know what is good Hindu please enlighten us.

There absolutely very little you know off Hindu apart from that we worship idols (that’s your misconception) or we apparently worship many gods again a misconception.

As a Hindu I would not force my views on anyone because how can there be a proper worship if there is no love born out of free will. If god needed a robot he could easily produce one and a perfect one to that.

If you desire peace then one has to become peaceful first.

Jai Shree Krishna

Salam

Now here is clear explanation:

 

We muslims face towards the kaaba because it is the order of Allah in Quran.

 

I hope it is clear now.

Lord Krishna Says

Thus the knowledge that is more secret than the secret has been explained to you by Me. After fully reflecting on this, do as you wish. (18.63)

This is the different between you and me, I have a choice where you my friend, are bound by the laws of Islam and no scope to think for your self.

Difference here is I choose to worship god as I see fit out of my free will so tell me why it should bother you.

I thank you for your concern for us Kafir, who according to you are ignorant of their own scriptures, how can this simple fact that you have kindly quoted so easily be missed by those great scholars of Vedas, I wonder! You must think all those pundits must be naive to have accepted murti puja when you can with click of a finger prove us all wrong.

Do you really accept the authority of Vedas? If No, then there is no meaningful discussion to be had, as no amount verses we might put forward will make a blind bit of difference.

Lord Krishna says to us

Whosoever offers Me a leaf, a flower, a fruit, or water with devotion; I accept and eat the offering of devotion by the pure-hearted. (9.26)

O Arjuna, whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer as oblation to the sacred fire, whatever charity you give, whatever austerity you perform, do all that as an offering unto Me. (See also 12.10, 18.46) (9.27)

We may do this offering in our mind or we may choose to do this in our alter what to speak of at mandir where a proper Vedic principal is followed and a pran prathistha is performed, so the murti is now non different from the supreme lord.

Since you have come here to enlighten us all here, please clear one thing for me, you guys yearn for peace and that is how you greet each other in Islam yet all your actions are opposite at least that is how things are perceived in this increasingly dangerous world.

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam LoveroftheBhagavata ji

Aum namah Shivaya

Shiva the Auspicious, my Koti Koti Pranam

On this day of Maha Shivratri may he bestow his grace on all of us.

Karacharana kritam vaakkaayajam karmajam vaa .

Shravananayanajam vaa maanasam vaaparaadham.

Vihitamavihitam vaa sarvametatkshamasva .

Jaya jaya karunaabdhe shriimahaadevashambho .. 5

Whatever karma i have committed with my hands, feet, voice, body, actions, ears, eyes, or mind, whether prohibited by the scriptures or not, please forgive them all. Hail! Hail! O ocean of compassion! O great god! O benevolent lord!

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam

Om Namah Shivaya

Pranam

It is pointless to apportion blame on any varna for the decline of Varnashram, but it is as Raghu ji points out the brutal occupation of Bharat by the invaders accelerated the process of decline.

As to the example of Pariksit Maharaj and Srngi, the Rihi’s son, I fail to understand how this can be blamed for the decline of Brahmin culture or even blame the son.

For one it was Pariksit Maharaj under the influence of Kali residing in his mukat cause the incidence, seeing the dead snake on his fathers neck made the son angry and cursed the person who did this to his father. Was he under the influence of kali? I don’t know, did the punishment fit the crime? No

If the king had done his duty and punished ‘kali’ would we see this decline?

It was Pariksit Maharaj mercy that allowed kali to reside in four places.

Mercy is also partially blamed on the kings who faced the onslaught of the invaders, they were defeated number of times but instead of punishing them they were allowed to return and conquered us.

It is very obvious that these invaders destroyed our temples and corrupted our culture but the dharma is eternal, it can never be destroyed although the propaganda they feed us even today is aimed at destroying the Vedic culture, which will remain even though wounded. Varnashram as ordained by Krishna is not Iskcon’s prerogative or their preaching’s convenience.

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam

After four years patient sure is a virtue, how long the guest he or she can endure the mind fascination?

I hope the desire has been fulfilled if ever that can be achieved.

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam LoveroftheBhagavata

Pranam Ganeshprasad,

 

You should be careful not to consider ISKCON to be the all and all of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. In fact, for all their international presence, they are just a fraction of the entire tradition which finds its roots and main centres in Bengal, Orissa and in the Vrindavana area of UP. The vast majority of traditional Gaudiyas do not criticize Mirabai, even if we do not follow her since she is not in our lineage. Ditto for Gosvami Tulasidasa, whose Sri Ramacaritamanasa I for one happen to revere, although once again the Bhagavata is for me the topmost pramana. Even in the Gaudiya Matha, they generally consider Tulasidasa to be a genuine Vaishnava and an exemplary Rama-bhakta. Most in ISKCON do not equate these conceptions but that is their business, and they don't quite represent the standard Caitanyaite view.

 

Gosvamiji was initiated in the Rama-mantra (Sri Rama Jaya Rama Jaya Jaya Rama) in the Ramananda sampradaya, a branch of the Sri sampradaya of Ramanujacarya, and his ista-devatas were Sri Sri Sita-Rama, whom we Gaudiyas understand to be expansions of Sri Sri Radha-Govinda. Therefore, bear in mind that what you get from some devotees here is not the mainstream Gaudiya idea. Even JN Prabhu once expressed his appreciations on these forums for the Hanuman Chalisa, which as you are aware, was composed by Tulasidasaji. I hope that this little note just puts back some perspective into the whole discussion.

 

Radhe Radhe

Thank you for your caution, let me make it clear my intention here was not to criticize Gaudya, although I have read in one of Gaudya Guru literature not accepting Mira a pure bhakta.

Merely making a point, and you reinforced it for me “since they do not belong to your lineage you do not follow them“.

So how some one entirely from different tradition even though brings a message of love and forgiveness and yet we find in his name million of turkey get consumed on his birth calibration alone, there sure is something amiss.

Contrast this with Mira or Tulsidas millions get inspiration even today .if they don’t get recognized by those who are arguing for Christ. What is the point in painting Christ as a vaishnav when bulk of his followers would simply laugh at the prospect, that is if they don’t condemn you to eternal hell first.

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam

I find this strange discussion to say the least, when devotees like Mirabai, a great Krishna bhakta whose bhajan speaks volumes and Tulasidas whose Ramchritra manas has inspired millions to the path of devotion, even they are not considered Vaishnavas in some Gaudiya sampradaya how would Christ who has entirely different tradition and very little in common with Vedic tradition fit in Gaudiya vaishnavism?

Jai Shree Krishna

// YAA KUNDENDU TUSHAARHAARA DHAWALA

YAA SHUBHRA VASTRAVRITTA

YAA VEENAA VARADANDA MANDITKARAA

YAA SHVETA PADMASANAA

YAA BRAHMAACHUUTA SHANKARA PRABHRITIBHIR

DEVAIH SADAA VANDITAA

SAA MAAM PAATU SARASWATI BHAGAVATEE

NISHSHESHA JAADYAPAHAA //

Meaning,

Goddess Saraswati is all in white like the blossom of Kunda flowers, the moon, snow and pearl.

Her dress is pure white.

Two of her hands are playing the Veena.

Her other two hands are poised to give awards and punishments as required.

She is seated on a White Lotus.

All the Celestials, including Lord Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, worship her.

Hey Goddess Saraswati, Please remove hurdles in my life and protect me.

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam Sreeram

It is Vakratunda not Okratunda. Vakra means curve. Please take care while deal with any mantra Worg pronounsation may cause worng effects.

 

Vakratunda mahakaya koti soorya samaprabha,

nirvighnam kurumedeva shubha karyeshu sarvada.

 

I am embarrassed , I must confess I did not even read the English transliteration

I had tried to post the Sanskrit some how it did not work

Thanks for pointing out

English Translation:

"Oh, Lord Ganesh, with curved trunk and massive body, the one whose splendor is equal to millions of suns, please bless me so that I do not face any obstacles in my endeavors."

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam suchandra,

It does not help when one changes the context of the point I had made that is the word demigod does not do justice to Deva.

Even then to your point, Krishna Bhagvan does not condemn Deva worship in the Gita,

Infect he has encouraged it in chapter three and seventeen.

And talk about shooting one self in the foot, no vaishnav would rubbish Bhajan sung for Lord Ram

The version popularized by Mahatma Gandhi is:

रघुपित राघव राजाराम , पतित पावन सीताराम

सीताराम सीताराम, भज प्यारे तू सीताराम

ईश्वर अल्लाह तेरो नाम, सब को सन्मित दे भगवान

Transliteration:

<DIR>Raghupati Raghav raja Ram, patit pavan Sita Ram

Sita Ram Sita Ram, Bhaj pyare tu Sitaram

Ishwar Allah tero naam, Saab ko Sanmti de Bhagavan

</DIR>Translation:

<DIR>Lord Rama, Chief of the house of Raghu

Uplifters of those who have fallen, (O divine couple) Sita and Rama

Beloved, praise Sita and Rama

God or Allah is your name

Lord, bless everyone with wisdom

Where does it say Sampati de, ie wealth?

Even if it did Lord Krishna says four types of dovetees worship me one of them is arthi.

Jai Shree Krishna

</DIR>

Pranam Kulapavana

Quote:

 

You can spend a very long time explaining that sruti verse. Your explanation will depend on your realization and your particular taste (rasa) for the Transcendence. We call the One from this sloka "Krishna". Do you have a problem with that? Read this verse again.

 

I don’t know if this post is meant for me, but please allow me to share my views all the same because I have quoted this srutis verse many times, infact I quoted bg sloke 11. 39 to in support of it.

You are right explanation will depand on personal realisation and rasa.

I certainly do not have one iota of problem of that one to be Krishna for he is also my worship able deva.

Problems starts when one denigrates someone elses choice to be half or semi or incomplte god. It would be perfect to describe as it is describe in scriptures as devas but demigod presupposes its inferiority and that is not the case.

Defination of demigod;

In the Bhagavadgita (or in any Hindu scripture), Lord Krishna NEVER uses the term “demigod”

As an adjective, deva means “heavenly, divine, or highly excellent”.

As a noun, deva means God or Deity (cf. Latin DEVS ) ~ and deva is a common name for Lord Indra.

As a plural noun, devA refers to the Gods ~ especially the 33 prime Deities ~ and deva can refer generally to any image of Divinity or Deity.

Sanskrit DEVA is exactly cognate with Latin DEUS, which plainly indicates GOD.

The prefix DEMI- means HALF, so that DEMI-GOD means HALF-GOD or PARTLY GOD.

Why use such a belittling term for ANY Deity? Gods are Gods!

Indra is the King of Gods, Agni is the God of Fire, Sarasvati is the Goddess of Knowledge ~ there is NO half-measure about it.

And there is only ONE Mahadeva, who is certainly not a “partial” deity!

Agni is Fire ~ the perfect conception of Fire ~ and wherever the nature of Fire is present, there is Agnideva ~ the Fire God ~ the Lord of Fire ~ Fire in its essence ~ the very Self of Fire.

Terms such as “controller”, “administrator”, or “demigod”, are all rather pathetic titles for such a Deity.

And Lord Indra can not adequately be described as the “controller of rain”.

There is one Sun, but there are many Days ~ and all are Adityas.

One God with many aspects ~ all equally divine ~ a faceless Deity who projects ALL faces.

If Demigod is understood as “part (or aspect) OF God”, rather than “part God”, then perhaps it does have some value.

Ashoka has declared: “Truly, if a person extols his own sect and disparages other sects with a view to glorifying his sect owing merely to his attachment to it, he injures his own sect very severely by acting in this way.”

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam

It is deplorable to sell mantra, but were they marketing their organisation on that premise? I don’t know but I am sure they were heavily pushing TM on yoga practice.

At least here they were upfront with what they were selling, and if people went there and got some benefit good luck to them.

In life there is nothing for free

big organisation can not be sustained without funds, and they all adept different ways to raise money and not all of them done in legit way.

How is selling Vedas any different from selling mantra, Targeting yes targeting those rich to part with their hard earn or ill-gotten money with some sophisticating technique

how is auctioning several times, same deity dresses, on the occasion of festival days to those unsuspecting donors simply to raise as much Laxmi as possible, or selling Mahaprasad .

I suppose anything goes in the name of Krishna well almost every thing.

Mode of goodness is stepping stone or a very good foundation to spiritual progress without that whole thing looks very shaky or foggy.

So let us not knock those who cultivate those virtues.

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam

 

That the demigods are not God is something very thoroughly expounded by Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita. .

Where in Bhagvat Gita does he say this explicitly, can you quote this please.

On the contrarily Arjun had to say this,

You are the primal God, the most ancient Person. You are the ultimate resort of all the universe. You are the knower, the object of knowledge, and the supreme abode. The entire universe is pervaded by You, O Lord of the infinite form. (11.38)

You are Vaayu, Yama, Agni, Varuna, Shashaanka, and Brahmaa as well as the father of Brahmaa. Salutations to You a thousand times, and again and again salutations to You. (11.39)

Very much in agreement with Vedas

They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuṇa, Agni, and he is heavenly nobly-winged Garutmān.

To what is One, sages give many a title they call him (it) Agni, Yama, Mātariśvan.

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam

I respect your choice and I hope your focus remain firm and reach Krishna the source.

Unfortunately I can not pretend I have no birth, until such time I realised that fact I hope I can do justice to my ancestors, offer my respect and tread the same path of dharma they laid to reach the same source.

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam

Gangaprasad, You present Arjuna's doubts when he was bewildered as to his duty. You have to look past this stage and to the answers that Krsna gives him to resolve his doubts. It is those answers which take us from the worldly plane of false attachments and establishes us in the trancendent self.

 

We should not stop short of the goal thinking "my ancestorsyour ancestors". There is only one common source for all living beings. This is a basic understanding of Krsna consciousness, a foundation point which cannot be neglected.

Sure but these were not Arjuns doubts he was stating facts, which Krishna did not refute, besides my stating of those verse were only in response to your statement (What is the value of any other so-called anscestor?)

I come from a culture were we respect our parents for they are our first guru what they learned from their folks and it goes back all the way.

They laid down the path for us to follow. The social fabric of any society breaks down without the culture.

It is easy to state the final goal, which is well understood but very hard act to follow, unless the foundation laid is strong, following the path of dharma.

Offering prayers and performing rights to ancestors are very much a duty in Vedic culture. We follow those ancestors of ours who trod the path of Dharma,

Lord Krishna confirms this.

evam jnatva krtam karma

purvair api mumuksubhih

kuru karmaiva tasmat tvam

purvaih purvataram krtam

The ancient seekers of liberation also performed their duties with this understanding. Therefore, you should do your duty as the ancients did. (4.15).

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam

If a personality no less then Arjun is worried about the ancestors who am I to question its value?

With the destruction of the family, the eternal family traditions are destroyed, and immorality prevails due to the destruction of family traditions. (1.40)

And when immorality prevails, O Krishna, the women of the family become corrupted; when women are corrupted, social problems arise. (1.41)

This brings the family and the slayers of the family to hell, because the spirits of their ancestors are degraded when deprived of ceremonial offerings of rice-ball and water. (1.42)

I can only speak of my ancestors and those who upheld that Hindu Dharma, in the land of Bharat, under extreme difficulties. It source is no less than the supreme lord from whom the Vedas were revealed, I am born in that tradition of those rishis to whom the Vedas were revealed , if I am fortunate to constantly occupy my self in thinking of those noble souls I consider my self fortunate and if I were to emulate their success, than my supreme goal is reached.That is the value of tradition, walk the path of dharma.

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam

As I see it, this whole debate is unhelpful, we are presented with a scenario and as we protest we get branded, as attached to labels, try hard as we may it becomes impossible.

On one hand, birth is glorified and then we get castigated for upholding varna, a system given by no other then the Lord himself. Birth is not something to be scoffed at, it is no accident, higher or lower species, it is a result of our previous sukruti. being born in good family, or Goswami or a brahmna is not an accident.

The Supreme Lord said: There is no destruction, O Arjuna, for such a yogi either here or hereafter. A transcendentalist is never put to grief (or bad state), My dear friend. (6.40)

The unsuccessful yogi is reborn, after attaining heaven and living there for many years, in the house of the pure and prosperous; or (6.41)

Such a yogi is born in a family of wise transcendentalists. A birth like this is very difficult, indeed, to obtain in this world. (6.42)

After taking such a birth, O Arjuna, one regains the knowledge acquired in the previous life, and strives again to achieve perfection. (6.43)

But this debate is not about varna or birth or Hindu people but it is about Hindu Dharma and it being constantly portrayed in bad taste, trying to put a wedge between Vaisnva and hindu as if to say vaishnav has never been a part of Hindu dharma.

Vedic dharma has many school of thoughts it has existed in the past and it is a reality now, the objection, the Hindu dharma has many different views does not wash.

There is no difference in Hindu or Vedic Dharma, that is how it is and has been for yonks. Wonderful Hindu Dharma that our ancestors fought so hard to preserve at unimaginable cost.

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam

if you can't attract non-Hindus to participate in Iskcon, no wonder Iskcon managers go after the easy target audience - ethnic Hindus.

Yes you got it right an easy target, sad though it is, a Hindu has been an easy target in all walks of life, so it is no surprise they fall pray even to their own heritage.

Unsuspecting hindu who holds dharma in high esteem is taken for a ride little do most know the politics that goes in name of Krishna.

Still it a blessing to be able to have Darsan and chanting of holy names, basically majority that visit the manor in London come for that.

but as to Iskcon ever being a non-sectarian organization, that is extremely debatable. I doubt anybody on the outside would have ever seen our movement in that way. In theory and in abstract principle - maybe, just maybe - but in practice we were always very sectarian.

Thank you for your honest appraisal.

For me Hindu dharma (not any organisation) fit’s the bill for being non -sectarian it encompasses everything even at the expanse of being called hodge- podge.

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam

Hindu dharma despite some peoples misconception of it being Hodge podge (due to their own lack of appreciation for its vastness) is the only non sectarian dharma. emphasis is on an individual to execute its dharma and be responsible for ones own karma. It gives the freedom to an individual to follow his or hers natural inclination towards Karma, Bhakti or Gayan.

Institutions or sects comes and goes but dharma based on satya is eternal, the very fact the Hindu way of life has survived against all odds is a testimony of its greatness.

Hinduism (sanatan dharma) is all inclusive, encompasses all Vedic Darsan.

For me it is more important to practice Dharma then to get stuck in labels,

Hinduism serve the purpose since it can mean nothing yet every thing is included.

Jai Shree Krishna

Thanks. But I was talking about the Ram-Ravan war in which Indrajit goes into hiding and showers various lethal weapons on Ram and Laxman. The arrows shot by him turn into snakes and these snakes cover the bodies of Ram and Laxman completely.

Pranam

Prabhu ki lila Prabhu hi jane

of course Lord Ram could have shot sonic arrow just as he killed Tadka, that would have gone against

the boon lord Brahma gave to Indrajit (Meghnath) the Son of Ravan

In the Adhy.tmar.m.yaÄa Vibh¶¦aÄa tells Ýr¶ R.ma:. (Yuddhak.ÄÎa VIII. 64.67)

.Brahm. (the Creator) has ordained the death of this wicked soul (Meghan.da) at the hands of one who has neither slept nor taken any food for full twelve years. Given over to your service, Lak¦maÄa, O Chief of the Raghus, has known neither sleep nor food etc., ever since he came away from Ayodhy.: I have come to know all this, O King of kings. Therefore, O Ruler of gods, command Lak¦maÄa to accompany me with allspeed; for he is no other than Ýe¦a, the supporter of the earth, and will doubtless slay this demon.

As indulekhadasi points out Garud had a role to play, who in turn was humbled as Tulsidas Goswami writes, having become proud of his saving the Lord, was asked to approach Kakbhusundi a mere crow, to listen to the glories of Lord Ram.

Jai Shree Krishna

Thanks. In Ramayan, Mahabharat and Puranas I am aware of only two stories in which somebody displays his knowledge of "shabd bhedi baan" - one of Dashrath and another of Eklavya. I am interested in knowing other stories in which somebody displays this knowledge.

Pranam

here is another from Valmiki Ramayan

vadhyataam taavat eva eSaa puraa sa.ndhyaa prava.rtate || 1-26-22

raxaa.msi sa.ndhyaa kaale tu du.rdharSaaNi bhavanti hi |

22b, 23a. sandhyaa puraa pravartate= sunset, in short time, sets in; taavat eva= before that, alone; eSaa vadhyataam= she, be destroyed; sandhyaa kaale= at sunset, time; rakshaamsi dur dharshaaNi bhavanti vai= demons, unassailable, they become, indeed.

"Sun is going to set in a short time, and only before that time she shall be destroyed, for demons at dusk and afterwards become unassailable, indeed." So said sage Viswamitra to Rama. [1-26-22b, 23a]

iti uk{}taH sa tu taam yaxiim ashma vR^iSTyaa abhivarSaNiim || 1-26-23

darshayan shabda vedhitvam taam rurodha sa saayakaiH |

23b, 24a. iti uktaH saH= thus, spoken, he that Rama; taam yakshiim= her, that yakshii; shabda vedhitvam darshayan= sonic, archery, displaying [his capacity]; ashma vR^iSTyaa abhi varSaNiim= with stones, storms, storming; saH= he; taam rurodha saayakaiH= her, forestalled, with arrows.

When Vishvamitra addressed him thus, Rama displaying his capacity in sonic archery forestalled that yakshii who has gone into invisibility and storming stone-storms, with his arrows. [1-26-23b, 24a]

for mahak, the name of that noble lady is Gandhari.

Jai Shree Krishna

When Indrajit became invisible, then why did Rama not use his knowledge of shabd bhedi baan? He could have shot at Indrajit by hearing his voice. Why did he not do that?

Pranam

speed; for he is no other than Ýe¦a, the supporter of the earth, and will doubtless slay this demon.

#

Jai Shree Krishna

Pranam

You are right Lord Ram did kill Tadka using sabda bhedi baan. this is as per Valmiki Ramayan.

as to why he did not use against Indrajit, who knows prabhu ki lila?

He was destined to be killed by Laxman, here there is also a story, if i can recall correctly, Laxman is related(father in law) to indrajit havin married a nag kanya, this i think i read in Tusidas Manas, i could be wrong.

Jai Shree Krishna