Ganeshprasad

Jai Ganesh

Hare Krishna,

Re

(Exactly, what's in a name? So why are you so annoyed that ISKCON don't always want to be labelled as Hindu?)

The context with which I said that was it does not matter what name and how it came about, the practice of the Dharma remain the same our ancestors died protecting and preserving that.

I have no problem if Iskcon do not want to be labeled as Hindu, that is fine but stop fooling people than.

Re

( The reason that ISKCON don't always want to be called Hindu is simply because the overwhelming majority of non-Hindus do not want to convert to Hinduism)

Fine no one is seeking conversion Hindus do not seek do that, everyone for them selves, if one is interested one asks. Hinduism is about living not seeking numbers.

Re

(- and we are not asking people to convert to Hinduism anyway. A Christian can carry on worshipping Jesus as a pure devotee and chant Krishna's name. Same for Islam, same for other religions. We do not deny others from their choice, we simply inform them about the consequences of their choice from the Bhagavad-gita. Is there anything wrong about that?)

Absulately none.

Re

(Cheating? I thought you just said Hindu was just a name. What is wrong with marketing to different groups? Dharma can never be on a lie? We are not lying. We are Hindu in the sense that we follow cent per cent Bhagavad Gita. We are not Hindu in the sense that we feel it is unfair to ask people that the condition for worshipping Krishna is to convert to Hinduism.)

Yes you are quite right I said what is in a name, Hindu or otherwise, those people who lived on the other side of river Sindhu as you like to put it, followed a certain Dharma it has become an identy for those followers.

Dharma for marketing! what next?

Re

( Yes we group ourselves as Hindu for one reason only - that is to aid our preaching efforts. Yes that means for help in authority. But we also help Hindu organisations in all countries, by spreading knowledge of Vedas. If you ask any Hindu youth group in the world, they will heavily rely on the Pandava Sena, )

In other words you would not get much purchase without Hindu so preaching will be on pretence.

Do not delude your self about the heavily dependency of “any Hindu youth group in the world” on Pandava Sena.

I know when and how it was created and it does do a valuable job in bringing the awareness of Dharma in today’s youth.

Re

(an ISKCON youth group to organise most of the philosophical aspects to their conferences - also with the logistics, manpower etc. Pandava Sena in the UK provide each and every National Hindu Student Forum event with invaluable speakers and philosophy, multimedia presentation and they appreciate it.)

Good keep it up, Dharma when followed, becomes an example for others to emulate, there is nothing better preaching than that.

Re

( We also appreciate the help they give us in reaching out to the Hindu community for help in our concerns. Conversion? Can't u understand? it is specifically because people do not want to convert to Hinduism that we don't always like to be classed as Hindu?)

What is there to understand what is there to convert?

Re

(Lame India? Blind India? Why you saying such bad things about India?)

Me never would say bad things about India. I said lame India and blind India bares the brunt. Lame because over the centuries it has been plundered off its wealth and blind because we cant see we are being taken for a ride despite all that we soldier on. We can’t become proud of our heritage because our Dharma tells us to be humble.

Re

(It is true no institute is Bhakti. But if any institute is going to come close to being 100% spiritual it has to be flexible with it's designations because Krishna does not care whether you are Hindu, Xian or Muslim, He cares that you love Him and serve Him. It is not outwardly symptom? Then why you asking ISKCON to class itself as purely Hindu, an outwardly designation?)

So be a Bhakta, Hindu is not an outwardly designation, it is Dharma just follow it.

I am not asking anything else.

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Thanks Atanu

I asked for an unbiased translation from the guest and some how he manages to tell us Param= subordinate do not know how one arrives at this conclusion? In my experience I have never come across Param to mean that but than I could be wrong, here are some definitions of Param:

parama = highest, the utmost, most excellent paramaM = supreme paramaH = perfect paramaha.nsa = a highest spiritual/discriminatory state(from Swan) paramaa = greatest paramaaM = the supreme paramaaH = the highest goal of life paramaaNubhaaraH = (m) atomic weight paramaatma = the Supersoul paramaatman.h = The soul within the Divine sphere paramaatmaa = the supreme spirit paramaadhikaaraH = (m) prerogative paramaananda = one who leads to the greatest happiness paramesha = God parameshvara = O Supreme Lord parameshvaraM = the Supersoul parameshhvaasaH = the great archer paramparaa = by disciplic succession parayaa = of a high grade parashuH = (m) axe parashuraama = sixth incarnation of Vishnu parashvaH = day after tomorrow parastaat.h = transcendental paraspara = mutually parasparaM = mutually parasya = to others parahaste = (loc.sing.) in other person's hand parahyaH = day before yesterday paraa = beyond, higher

paraaM = transcendental

sri-bhagavan uvaca

aksaram brahma paramam

svabhavo 'dhyatmam ucyate

bhuta-bhavodbhava-karo

visargah karma-samjnitah

Arjuna said: O Krishna, what is Brahman? What is Adhyaatma? What is Karma? What is called Adhibhoota? And what is known as Adhidaiva? (8.01)

O Krishna, who is Adhiyajna, and how does He dwell in the body? How can You be remembered at the time of death by the steadfast? (8.02)

The Supreme Lord said: Brahman is the Supreme imperishable. The individual self (or Jeevaatma) is called Adhyaatma. The creative power that causes manifestation of beings is called Karma. (8.03)

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Re

("He also says there is nothing beyond"

Please quote verse. )

Here it is get an unbiased translation

Chapter 13.

TEXT 13

jneyam yat tat pravaksyami

yaj jnatvamrtam asnute

anadi mat-param brahma

na sat tan nasad ucyate

Re

(Please forgive my offences if I am too harsh in my points.)

None taken, i will get back to your point in due course, time to hit the sack.

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Om Vinayaka Om

Namaskar Atanu ji

Re

(The story cited by Shri Bhadra Moorthi Ji is great.)

Yes it is great if properly understood, context with which it is related by Bhadra ji paints a different story alltogether. We could make the same mistake in relation to lord shiva

SB 8.7.33: Exalted, self-satisfied persons who preach to the entire world think of your lotus feet constantly within their hearts. However, when persons who do not know your austerity see you moving with Umā, they misunderstand you to be lusty, or when they see you wandering in the crematorium they mistakenly think that you are ferocious and envious. Certainly they are shameless. They cannot understand your activities.

So please do not make the same mistake about Lord Krishna.

Re

(It is actually the expansion of saint Yajnayalka's teaching to his wife that "All love the Self alone". Though by associating with our bodies we may consider ourselves lusty, but true knowledge will reveal who has the desire and for what?)

Yes we are all selfish, selfish for that love we all lack, this is the reason for our search.

Re

(Bhadramoorti ji's assertion that lusty (and I add egoists) are attracted to some particular form of the SELF, I feel is valid.)

May be but our definition of love and lust is way out, the love of Gopi is way beyond our imagination, even udhav could not understand this.

Re

(Self is all. It has good, it has bad, it has knowledge, it has ignorance. But God is above these. )

Precisely Lord Krishna is beyond our understanding, we look at our ista and then because others derides our worship we retaliate, it makes us no different to them. Krishna is No ordinary person, or achieved that status of god as some one like to think, he is God because he is god, one does not become god.

Re

(Because most Vaishnav's love God exoterically, as an external super power in the mold of Amitava Bachan or Rambo, they need to first understand that "ALL IS SELF" and "ALL LOVE THE SELF ONLY" and "SELF IS ONE".)

How can you even compare those mortals with the God?

We may never understand the One self that encompass everything just as pearls are strung on a thread.

Prostrations to the Visvarupa, the Sakti, and the Saktiman being.

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Pranam Atanu ji

RE

(This way our ego is spent out, at least mingled with love of God. I feel God desgined this trick to absorb our ego speedily.)

it is best to be civil although i do agree every thing happens for the best.

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Re

(Hinduism is a name given by Muslims to those living on the other side of the River Sindhu. The only term in the scriptures is 'Sanatana Dharma'. However, now all the philosophies based on the Vedas are grouped as Hinduism.)

Here we go again, same old argument, what’s in a name? nothing, it is based on Vedas that is for sure. Call what you like, we would still have difference because Vedas are based on dristi of various rishis, they saw the rainbow (Brahman) in various colors, you have a preference of one color and worship that, there is nothing wrong with that but the problem is you want to deny seekers of other colors which is their choice.

Re

(Therefore, ISKCON for preaching purposes calls itself Hindu when preaching to Hindus - but ultimately it is beyond material designation. It is Krishna Conscious.)

In my book that is cheating pure and simple, Dharma can never be sustained on a lie. Whenever there is a problem of any kind they takes refuge in the so-called name “Hindu” be it a problem with authority, government or Law. Iskcon is funded largely by so called Hindus; it is all lame India and blind India that bares the burden.

We Hindus do not need preaching at, but we well come healthy debates, we do not believe in conversion.

Ultimately no institute is Bhakti; Bhakti is an individual thing only the lord knows the purity of a Bhakta. It is not an outwardly symptom one exhibits.

"Krishna is only GOD incarnate and the Supreme Being is BRAHMAN who goes by many other names and forms."

Re

(Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita 'I am the source of the Brahman'.)

He also says there is nothing beyond.

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Pranam bhadramoorthi

I realize your feelings have been hurt by likes of Govidram and you are angry justly so.

We Hindus are our worst enemy sometimes, without knowing the subject matter we jump to wrong conclusion. Have you ever tried to find out at what age this Lila of our Lord took place? Do you know the position of gopis?

Try to read udhav conclusion on this or ask some one like Rameshbhai Oza who is a great Bhagvat scholar

It is great to worship mata don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, but please do not write derogatory things about our lord. Why cut the nose to spite the face.

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Pranam ajit12 ji

RE

(I am not trying to prove or dissprove existance of god . I have studied the scriptures, visited holy places & holy men . None of them has been able to discuss even the scriptures leave alone god. The attitude is extremely intolerant.)

It is good that you have read scriptures and visited holy places, it proves you are interested to search the truth. Some times visiting holy places could be very bitter experience, all this pandas it seems are only interested in your money.

But then who is not running after money, it causes father son to fallout, because of it brother and brother kills each other, country go to war because of it.

If we learn to rise above it our experience could be of most satisfying, learn and meet different people, how and what drives different people in search of that elusive force.

Let me relate my recent experience on pilgrimage

One, on a very auspicious day of Radhastmi visiting her temple in barsana, I was pickpocket and lost a lot of money.

Now that made me very sad, I could easily blame the lord for not looking after me after all I went there for their blessing,

I thought I was very clever, I could never let this happen to me, yet it happened and who is a fault? partly me for carrying that amount of money and not looking after it, but mainly that pickpocket whose job it is to rob, how can I blame anyone else. It is my experience and hopefully I will learn from it.

Second was in Himalayas while tracking I left my money bag full of money on the rock while resting for a while. Later as I started walking having covered a fair distance, I heard a very faint whistle so I turned around and saw this porter waving my bag. Now I could have lost not only money but my passport also.

The first incidence never shook my faith in the lord the second only cemented my faith that every thing happens for the best.

Re

(I find no evidence of existance of God in this world ,all holy books are vague.)

It depends which way we look at it, since we never would accept, say for this computer to happen here by chance, as if no one made it, I am sure you will agree it was made in a factory and there was an intelligence behind it. And all this manual that comes with it are so vague or perhaps I can not understand the language, So I have to go to some one who knows how all this work, even then I can not understand this but that is my problem.

Re

(for the human race.All gods like Tirupati, Saibaba, Shreenathji could not control epidemic like cholera in ther own pilgrimplace like tirupati or Abu. Science had to invent injections and vaccinations to stop these epidemics at holy places leave alone the world.)

One must understand what god is, under whose control all this revolves in its orbit the sun and the moon rises on its time. In fact nothing can move without his sanction.

Now does he interfere every second? What kind of creation would that be where I have no freedom to choose? I would be like a computer no will of my own.

As to controlling those disease, yes the science has come a long way in eradicating a lot of them, but lot more has sprung up the one more deadly then before. From time we are born this body is decaying the death is inevitable for those who are born, no science can change that on the other hand the lord says come to me I will give you that which is permanent from where there is no return.

Re

(Let me have your views in an open and tolerant manner. )

Yes the life is full of pain, it seems all we do is tolerate the three fold pain, adhidevik, adhiytamik and adhibhovtik, so it is natural to yearn for some peace.

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Re.

( Anyway, i had my rant at your lot, time to let you rot in your own stool. Hare Krishna )

where is your vivek, is this your spritual progress?

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Thank you Ajit12 ji

Re

(You hve mentioned some book vreses & chapters in Gandhi thread. pl. let me know which book you are referring to)

Sorry I should have made that clear.

The verses are from Bhagvat Gita.

RE

( My contention is that God,Veda, reincarnation etc. are muths.

does any one has any proof apart from the scriptures that there is god .)

Yes that is one way of looking at life; after all why should we accept what others say or what is written in the books.that is their experience and revelation.

But we do need guidance in every step of our existence so in that sense we are dependent, on others or an authority. For instance if I want to know who my father is then I have to ask my mother.

You ask has anyone seen god? Now I can not answer for others but me personally no, not in the sense you ask any way, but I feel the presence, jut like you perceive life as consciousness but do you actually see that life force?

What is the difference between a dead body and living being every thing is there so what was that life force, have you seen it?

Just think a simple matter as a house, we know it required an architect builders and some authority for us to able to build it. Is it very intelligent to think that this complex universe came about by it self?

If the sun was any closer we would all burn or the moon any closer we all drown.

What use is this existence, it is filled full of pain and struggle and for what, if you think at the end which is not more then 100 years if you are lucky, only to leave it all behind.

I can perceive so can you that this mortal body is changing every second, in fact every seven years we are told that all cells in the body changes but we can see or feel that the person in that body remains the same isn’t it? The death is nothing but change of the body, one more suitable for our need and we only get what we deserve.

So our quest should be who am I, where do I come from and where am I heading?

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Thank you ajit12

As I suspected you do not believe in god, that is fine it is your choice.

Since this life according to you is a product of chance, it is obvious there can not be any need for you for any rules or order.

We come in to this world for a sort period of time out of no where and we disappear in to thin air in due course of time. In between we struggle for our existence doing 4 main thing i.e. eat sleep mate and defend. And I tell you a secret we come always a second best in all 4 departments, in comparison to the animals. They eat, sleep mate and defend but they do not have to plan it, is so natural for them.

You talk about human values but I do not understand why, it is all based on greed, almost all human in this age are the most cruel species on earth you simply have to analyze with an open mind.

If you really want to know the quality of a Brahmin I suggest you read Chapter 18, Verse 42.

Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness--these are the qualities by which the brahmanas work.

And while you at it read chapter 16 also it describes quite clearly how those who think that there is no god.

Chapter 16, Verse 8.

They say that this world is unreal, that there is no foundation and that there is no God in control. It is produced of sex desire, and has no cause other than lust.

Chapter 16, Verse 11-12.

They believe that to gratify the senses unto the end of life is the prime necessity of human civilization. Thus there is no end to their anxiety. Being bound by hundreds and thousands of desires, by lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for sense gratification.

Chapter 16, Verse 13-15.

The demoniac person thinks: "So much wealth do I have today, and I will gain more according to my schemes. So much is mine now, and it will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him; and my other enemy will also be killed. I am the lord of everything. I am the enjoyer. I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices, I shall give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice." In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance.

If you want to discuss more on this subject you may want to open a new thread, since this thread is about Gandhi

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Re

(Krishnadasa,I can not understand how you can justify varnashrma in this age)

Sorry Krishnadasa to butt in, I had to ask ajit12 in which age would he justify varnashrma?

What is so special about this age?

Re

(all human beings are equal and no God nor any religion has any right to tell any human being that you are high or low either because of birht or sins in the previos life.)

I would like to add if I may, all those living entities are equal would you agree?

I observe different gradation in life, Varnashram or no varnashram or is it my imegination?

What sort of god is he or she if he has no right?

What is Dharma without rules and regulation?

Perhaps you can tell us all why there is so much unequality in this world?

Re

( Varnashrma is a myth greated by crafty and cunning brhamins to keep people in bondage as is reincarnation.this is really horrible and and is against all human values)

Do you know what is a real quality of a Brahmin?

What is an alternative to reincarnation?

Chance random selection yes?

And yes I agree reincarnation is horrible just as Sankracharya confirms

TEXT 22

punarapi jananam punarapi maranam punarapi jananii jathare shayanam iha samsaare bahudustaare kripayaa apaare paahi muraare

Meaning

Born again, death again, birth again to stay in the mother's womb! It is indeed hard to cross this boundless ocean of samsara. Oh Murari! Redeem me through Thy mercy.

But what you are proposing is even worse, where I do not have any choice

So tell us what human values you are so proud of?

Is it the millions of slaughterhouses that man kind supports? What about their rights.

Is it the millions of liquor and brothel house?

Is it the education system where the primary goal is how to earn money?

So tell us please what is not so horrible in this world, what are the human values by which one can get permanent happiness?

Jain Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

(One who does not understand Puranas does not understand Vedas properly. This is Veda Vyasas opinion as stated in Itihaasas and Puranas.)

Re

(I agree. Describes you well. )

How very true.

If only this people have conviction in what they say and accept what Veda Vyasa says then there want be this arguments which at times turns ugly

This very same people will tell you to ignore puranas if it does not fit in with their preconceived ideology.

The bhagvad puran has no mention of vayu drinking poison with Rudra yet our learned guest thinks he/she knows Vedas more then Vyasdev and concocts complete different version Of Kesin Sukta.

If only people accept what is quite clear in almost all the purans at least the ones that I have read that the lord is one but manifest in various forms I wold post few slokas, let us see if they accept what Vyasdev wrote.

SB 4.6.42: Lord Brahma said: My dear Lord Shiva, I know that you are the controller of the entire material manifestation, the combination father and mother of the cosmic manifestation, and the Supreme Brahman beyond the cosmic manifestation as well. I know you in that way.

(4.7/50-54 The lord said: The supreme cause of the universe, I am also Brahma (the creator) and Lord Shiva (the destroyer of the universe).

23. O lord, you are self-effulgent and supreme. You create this material world by your personal energy, and you assume the names Brahma, Visnu and Mahesvara when you act in creation, maintenance and annihilation.

Vishupuran say this 5.33-46 yo harih sa siva saksad yah sivah sa svayam harih ye tayor bhedam ati sthan narak aya bhave narah.

Whoever is lord hari, he himself is lord shiva indeed any human being mistake both the lords to be different,he/she surely goes to hell

yatha siva mayo vishnuh

Sivasya hrdyam Visnur Visnoz ca hrdayam Sivah(Skanda puran)

Just as Lord Vishnu is pervaded by Lord Shiva,

Similarly, in Shivas heart Vishnu resides and Vishnus heart is abode of Shiva.

I praise all the devotees of Sri Krishna and Shiva!

I detest all the so called devotees who though praise Krishna or Shiva but belittle the other propagating him to be inferior and small. Who go around distributing hatred.

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Happy diwali, on Tuesday the 1st.

Symbolizes the victory of light over darkness and good over evil

It is time when the family is centre stage.Time to reflect,time to enjoy.

Let us rejoice the home coming of our Lord Shree Ram.

The real home coming for us would be when we invite him in our hearts.

May the lord grant us his grace.

Jai Shree Ram

sri ram jai ram jai jai ram

Jai Ganesh

Pranam and Om Nama Sivayya

Hi nice to hear from you

Re

(Saivaite Ji, I empathize with you. I feel that Ganesh ji has been a bit too tough in judgement. But as Ganesh Ji is good, please do not take it to heart.)

Please tell me where I had been harsh in my judgement, I shell mend my ways,

I must admit this person is no worse then some of the guests who would like to kill off Shiva or try and show him as a minor god. I hope those who are serious about spiritual progress think about what they write and take heed from what lord Krishna says in chapter nine

TEXT 15

jnana-yajnena capy anye

yajanto mam upasate

ekatvena prthaktvena

bahudha visvato-mukham

TRANSLATION

Others, who are engaged in the cultivation of knowledge, worship the Supreme Lord as the one without a second, diverse in many, and in the universal form.

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Re

(It is not the worship of Shiva that leads to Tamas, it is the wrong knwledge resulting from reading Tamasa Puranas that lead to Tamas. Ofcourse Veda Vyasa wrote it, in order to lead asuras to Tamas.)

This sums it all. Veda Vyasa wrote it to lead asura to Tamas.Think and contemplate what this means, it so wonderful.

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Re

(I have not seen nonsense like this anywhere, but from ignoramus like you.

1. There is no such word in sanskrit as Kesivi

2. The website(sacred text) does not split the word at all.

I cannot frankly answer bull @#$$# like this.

May be you should install sanskrit font to view in Devnagiri script.

The sacred text website first gives the verses in Devnagiri script, followed by Roman script.

If you did not install the FONT and think the word was split it is your ignorance. )

Well what can i say.i am not going to stoop to your level. If you had learnt anything from Vedas it sure is not what i want to learn. in case you did not notice i did say i wanted to see the sanskrit but hey ignorance also comes in many forms.

bye

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Re

(It doesw not matter. Rudra is shown here to be lesser Deity than Vayu.)

Not so fast, read the verse before

6 Treading the path of sylvan beasts, Gandharvas, and Apsarases,

He with long locks, who knows the wish, is a sweet most delightful friend

One, who is described here as most delightful friend, makes no sense to be described as lesser than Vayu in the next (only in someone’s misguided opinion). I am not even sure the next verse has anything to do with poison.

Re

(This Vayu is MukhyaPrana, called as Sutra that connects all living beings in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad. )

So what, the Mukhya pran help lord Shiva ? or is it the personality Vayu his friend or Marut?

Re

(It can be seen from the statement "Rudrena Saha" that Rudra was merely a side participant and not the main one like Vayu. Thus Rudra was given only a small portion. )

If you read all of rig 10.136 1-7 your stand has very little credence nor does it mention small portion or week portion as you suggested. It is pure speculation, Bhagvat puran does not support your imegination either.

Re

(In ths Sruti by the use of the word "Saha" it is confirmed that Vayu is the main drinker of Poison(Visha).)

By whose standard? Since to me the translation need clarification and to my understanding the word saha, means together or along with, can in no way indicate main participant.

Re

(There are no hdden meanings. Padma Purana clearly states that one who follows Tamasa Puranas go to Tamas.)

Nice to know you understand every thing. I will gladly go to Tamas, after all it is from tamas we ask to go to jyotir.

Re

(Anything thatcontradicts Vedas is of no worth ultimately. )

Since vedas proclaim neti, neti neti what you say is neti

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Thanks i can see in your sloka, but i am noy satisfied

you have this keshI vishhasya

in sacraed text the word is split as kesivi asya

bearing in mind the hymn is about HYMN CXXXVI. Kesins.

i am more inclined to go with later translation

i am curious to read the sanskrit.

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Thank you, yes this is one of the site i refered too.this is titled HYMN CXXXVI. Kesins.meaning hair the Lock. here it is.

keśyaghniṃ keśī viṣaṃ keśī bibharti rodasī |

keśīviśvaṃ svardṛśe keśīdaṃ jyotirucyate ||

munayo vātaraśanāḥ piśaṅghā vasate malā |

vātasyānudhrājiṃ yanti yad devāso avikṣata ||

unmaditā mauneyana vātānā tasthimā vayam |

śarīredasmākaṃ yūyaṃ martāso abhi paśyatha ||

antarikṣeṇa patati viśvā rūpāvacākaśat |

munirdevasya-devasya saukṛtyāya sakhā hitaḥ ||

vātasyāśvo vāyoḥ sakhātho deveṣito muniḥ |

ubhausamudrāvā kṣeti yaśca pūrva utāparaḥ ||

apsarasāṃ ghandharvāṇāṃ mṛghāṇāṃ caraṇe caran |

keśīketasya vidvān sakhā svādurmadintamaḥ ||

vāyurasmā upāmanthat pinaṣṭi smā kunannamā |

keśīviṣasya pātreṇa yad rudreṇāpibat saha ||

1. HE with the long loose locks supports Agni, and moisture, heaven, and earth:

He is all sky to look upon: he with long hair is called this light.

2 The Munis, girdled with the wind, wear garments soiled of yellow hue.

They, following the wind's swift course go where the Gods have gone before.

3 Transported with our Munihood we have pressed on into the winds:

You therefore, mortal men. behold our natural bodies and no more.

4 The Muni, made associate in the holy work of every God,

Looking upon all varied forms flies through the region of the air.

5 The Steed of Vata, Vayu's friend, the Muni, by the Gods impelled,

In both the oceans hath his home, in eastern and in western sea.

6 Treading the path of sylvan beasts, Gandharvas, and Apsarases,

He with long locks, who knows the wish, is a sweet most delightful friend

7 Vayu hath churned for him: for him he poundeth things most hard to bend,

When he with long loose locks hath drunk, with Rudra, water from the cup.

There is no mention of posion in this translation.

this is the reason i need clarification.

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Re

("vAyurasmA upAmanthat.h pinashhTismA kunannamA |

keshI vishhasya pAtreNa yad.hrudreNApibat.hsaha ||")

can some one verify this rig 10.136.7

i have searched two sites non of them mentions (posion) Vishhasya.

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Re

(Rudra swallowed only small part of Visha. Major portion was swallowed by Vayu as evident from Rig Veda.)

Question was why did Vishnu not do it himself. But then we are not here to answer question are we? We only want the superiority contest.

"vAyurasmA upAmanthat.h pinashhTismA kunannamA |

keshI vishhasya pAtreNa yad.hrudreNApibat.hsaha ||"

vAyuH = Vayu; asmA = asmai = for him (for Shiva);

upAmanthat.h = squeezed well (that poison); pinashhTismA =

kneaded and crushed; kunannamA = evil punisher (vAyu);

keshI = who has the Lord's sannidhAna; vishhasya pAtreNa =

with the vessel full of poison; yad.h = which; rudreNa saha =along with Rudra; apibat.h = drank.

Re

(Vayu squeezed, kneaded and crushed [a small portion] of the

poison for Shiva and drank the poison along with Shiva.)

Where does it say small portion?

Was the poision solid form that needed kneaded and crushed?

Has vayu anything to do with marut in this instance, I say this because it would make sense the son would be ever so willing to help their father

I do know there is a difference between marut and vayu but then Hanuman is adressed as maruti nandan as well as vayu putra so there is also non difference it seems.

Re

(rudreNa saha = along with Rudra. So Vayu is the main consumer of the poison. Rudra is a secondary participant.

Vayu drank the fully potent poison, but gave the crushed

and weakened small portion of the poison to Shiva.)

Why are you trying to mislead where does it say Vayu drank the potent poison? Where is the quantity mentioned?

If I say I went to dinner along with my friends does this follow I am the main person who eat or eat the most?

Why are you trying to denigrate Lord Shiva?

In Bhagvat puran which is known as Amala i.e. pure, the story mentions no reference to Vayu.

Before you say if it contradicts Veda we have to reject it then you will have to tell me Vyas deva did not know Vedas.

Re

(This is a bogus story that contradicts with Vedas)

You can not hide behind Vedas when ever certain story does not make sense to us, and there are many such stories, nothing happens without his sanction so all those stories although at times very difficult to understand has may be very deep rooted meaning that we simply do not understand.

Re

(keshI = who has the Lord's sannidhAna; )

who does this refer to?

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Re

(Padma Purana:

shAstrANyapi cha sarvANi trividhAni mahAmate ||

yAni satyavaraM viShNuM vadanti parameshvaram.h |

tAni shAstrANi sarvANi sAtvikAni matAni vai ||

prajApatiM kR^ishAnuM cha tathA devIM sarasvatIm.h |

paratvena vadachChAstraM rAjasaM parichaxate ||

yachChAstraM liN^gapAramyaM vAmadevamumApatim.h |

tamaH pravartakaM vakti tattAmasamudAhR^itam.h ||

All Shastras are of three types. That Shastra which praises Lord Vishnu as Parameshvara is Satvika. That which praises Brahma or Agni or Sarasvati Devi is Rajasika. That which praises Shiva, since it leads to Tamas, is Tamasika shAstra.)

When we have certain agenda or stance we read in to verses to suit our viewpoint. It is interesting to note that those who are quick to point out that Sambhu is the highest Vaishnava would easily accept statement like, that which praises Shiva would lead to Tamas. These two statements just do not reconcile.

It is true that vyasa deva wrote 18 purans in which he eulogizes the trinity in their respective puranas as well as in each puranas all three would be praised as the Lord. Naturally if we read Vishnu puran then the central theme would be Vishnu or Shiva in shiv puran.

In my opinion a puran is not satvik or tamsik and to say so is a gross misrepresentation. The lord who is Nirguna or above the triguna, does control the three gunas in his different form and as such this puranas are in essence biography of this three personalities.

Re

(That is your opinion. I go by what Shastras say.)

Opinion varies reading the same subject

Re

(Comparison based on Vedas or Sruti statements is essential to knowing TRUTH. Otherwise anybody can think anything and say anything. )

Truth can easily be missed even if it is staring in our face. What is the need of comparing the same subject? If we have conviction in our faith what need is there to constantly knocking some one else worship.

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Pranam Maadhav

from what little i have read it is very nice

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Re

(The general perception is that Hinduism is just following Vedas and BG. However, there is an entirely other aspect of hinduism that even most hindus chose not to speak about.)

Sounds like you are envious of Vedas and Bhagvat Gita in particular

No Hindu can ever deny Vedas without which there is no base for Hindu Dharma are you really serious?

Re

(The mainstream population of India is following the aspect of hinduism I'm advocating, maybe without even realizing it.)

From what I have seen so far you are advocating nothing but hatred the hatred for gurus and shastras.

Re

(For people who say Hare Krishna was not involved in destruction of Ayodhya. Well, of course they didn't send armed hooligans to destroy the structure, but nevertheless, their sect of hinduism strongly advocates sectarianism.)

You are making baseless accusation, having been proved wrong about ayodhya and iskcon

Whatever the shortcomings of Iskcon they certainly do not advocate violence.

Re

(Their words are full of malice and they advocate strict adherence to books whose central theme circles around warfare.)

What malice are you on about? Any serious student will strictly adhere to their book, and they follow Bhagvat Gita the song of god which you cant even bare to mention, it just shows your envy and prejudice.

Re

(Does it not explain the hatred shown by people like Maadhav and Ranga towards people of other community?)

I have no much experience of Ranga, but so far it has all been civil even you said so but unfortunately true to your form you keep changing your stand, just like this so called secular advocates ever ready to appease the aggressor and knock the Hindus when ever possible because they neither follow the Dharma or understand it.

As for people like Maadhav we need more off, who speak the truth as they see it with best interest of Hindus at heart.

Re

(Was this hatred present before 1900? I doubt so.

Also when I mean Hare Krishna and ISKCON, I mean all sects of hinduism that takes the religion back to dark ages.)

Here lies the problems of so called do gooders who have no faith, in our history in our shastras.

Look at you in one breath you are talking of past before 1900 as some thing good, hateless and I agree our past was glorious (until the invaders came they looted us raped us tried to destroyed us)

And at the same time you think we are going back in time back to dark ages. Didn’t anyone tell you we are progressing in to kali yuga? Look around you, babies are dying in millions even before they are born they are aborted. Jillian of poor animals are killed to satisfy mans tongue

Our sastras are termed myth by likes of you, lies fed by foreigners to undermine our rich and powerful heritage are still being accepted by likes of you who believe in those propaganda, shame on all those secular good for nothing Hindu haters.

Jai Shree Krishna