barney

Dear sanatana, Where I come from all dieties of Hinduism are respected and visited and all Hindu festivals are celebrated by all irrespective of Vaishnavas or Shivaits. I'm surprised that people in other parts of the world have so much indifferences and misunderstanings about their own religion. For your info we only address the nine grahas as "theva" Suria Deva, Chandra Deva and so on. We do not address Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, Ganesha or Murugan as "thevar' coz we know their power one and the same whereas you have catagorized all others except Krishna as demigods and that I cannot agree no matter what you Guru or the scripturers[Gita]says. I do not want to be direspectful but it is what I feel. To me it is all the same as I get the same feelings when i meditate upon any one of them. I do not feel any less in either of them. So, to me it makes no difference as all are equal in status as the other. Anyway, you carry on with what you believe in and that is your right and choice. I have mine and my ways which I feel more comfortable and if that is blasphemy so be it for it is my duty to answer if the so called creator confronts me. I do not fear God, to me God is like my mother and as a child I make my demands and as a mother SHE has to comply. That is the bond between mother and child whereas I see you and others showing fear and superficial love for God. Anyway, I did not meant to commit all members of ISKCON but only some. May the Almighty guide your in all your actions.

WoW! I was not aware that you are a psychic. But I know that you are a bogus psychic. Would a Muslims praise Hinduism and promote Hinduism? Have you not read my postings condemning Muslim fanatism and the misinterpreted Hadis by mullsas? You must be joking... Just because I'm against ISKCON's way of preaching you have branded me a muslim. Now I know your attitude, anyone who vioces his displeasure against ISKCON are branded an atheist or a muslim. That's stupid and you are a fool. That's is all I can say about you and your kind.

Sanatana, You posted the greatness of krishna but it is not only krishna but even Shiva to has been praised highly by Pushhpadanta and how he has composed praising Shiva. These are all storas composed by devotees to praise God in many of his forms. As I have said earlier Krishna, yes the incarnation of Vishnu but Visnu, Shiva and Brahma are one but in three forms and to say one is supreior to the other is ignorant. It is ok for members of ISKCON to praise Krishna and bless them for their work but to condemn Shiva and Brahma by saying they are demigods i what I do not like and if they want to say such thing than I would surely oppose it. To me Krishna is only an avatar no matter what you quote from the Bgh. Gita. As a Hindu I cannot accept only Krishna as the supreme. To me all is one and I pay my homage to all in various ways. But if this continues than you would see my post opposing to all concept. It is a my way of showing those ignorant fools what is God all about. And a for Sai Baba, let him be as what he wants to be for thou should not judge others as you would be judged by your creator if you know what I mean. Sai Baba is instilling faith and confidence in those who are in the verge of giving up on God and to say he is this and that is wrong as none of these people had any personal experienece with him but just listen to rumours alone. If you visit the Ismalic web sites do you know how they condemn Krishna saying he is a sex pevert looking at naked wome and having 16,000 wives and so on. Surely I'm annoyed at it but what about this guys calling Sai Baba a child molester and so on, are this justified? Why do they want to say such is clearlyt known coz Sai Baba has millions of followers and ISKCON seem to be lacking that coz whatever members they had are now reducing in numbers. I'm sure you know why. Anyway, sorry for being direct and hope you would understand. The Shiva Mahimna Stotra The Shiva Mahimna Stotra is very popular among the devotees of Lord Shiva and is considered one of the best among all Stotras (or Stutis) offered to Lord Shiva. The legend about the circumstances leading to the composition of this Stotra is as follows. A king named Chitraratha had constructed a nice garden. There were beautiful flowers in this garden. These flowers were used every day by the king in worshipping Lord Shiva. One day a Gandharva (Singer in the court of Indra, the Lord of the Heaven) named Pushhpadanta being fascinated by the beautiful flowers, began to steal them, as a consequence of which king Chitraratha could not offer flowers to Lord Shiva. He tried very hard to capture the thief, but in vain, because the Gandharvas have divine power to remain invisible. Finally the king spread the Shiva Nirmaalya in his garden. Shiva Nirmaalya consists of the Bilva leaves, flowers, et cetera which have been used in worshipping Lord Shiva. The Shiva Nirmaalya is considered holy. The thief Pushhpadanta, not knowing this, walked on the Shiva Nirmaalya, and by that he incurred the wrath of Lord Shiva and lost the divine power of invisibility. He then designed a prayer to Lord Shiva for forgiveness. In this prayer he sung the greatness of the Lord. This very prayer became well known as the `Shiva Mahimna Stotra'. Lord Shiva became pleased by this StotraM, and returned Pushhpadanta's divine powers. The legend has some basis since the name of the author is mentioned in verse number 38 of the stotraM. The recital of this stotra is very beneficial, and Shri Ramakrishna, one of the famous saints of the nineteenth century, went into samadhi just by reciting a few verses from this hymn. Let its recitation be beneficial to you as well! || AUM namaH shivaaya || || atha shrii shivamahimnastotram.h || mahimnaH paaraM te paramavidushho yadyasadR^ishii stutirbrahmaadiinaamapi tadavasannaastvayi giraH | athaa.avaachyaH sarvaH svamatiparimaaNaavadhi gR^iNan.h mamaapyeshha stotre hara nirapavaadaH parikaraH || 1|| } O, Lord Shiva, remover of all types of miseries, what wonder is there, if the prayer to you, chanted by one who is ignorant about your greatness, is worthless! Because, even the utterance ( speech ) of Brahmaa and other gods is not able to fathom your merits ( ie, greatness ). Hence, if persons with very limited intellect ( and I am one of them ) try to offer you a prayer, their attempt deserve your special favour. If it is so, I should not be an exception. Hence, (thinking like this ) I begin this prayer. (1) atiitaH pa.nthaanaM tava cha mahimaa vaaN^manasayoH atadvyaavR^ittyaa yaM chakitamabhidhatte shrutirapi | sa kasya stotavyaH katividhaguNaH kasya vishhayaH pade tvarvaachiine patati na manaH kasya na vachaH O, Great God, so great is your majesty that it cannot be reached by speech and mind. Even the Vedas also, having become surprised, confirm your greatness by only saying `Neti', `Neti' (not this, not this) while describing you. Who can praise this type of greatness of yours? With how many qualities is it composed? Whose subject of description can it be ? And yet even then whose mind and speech are not attached to your this new Saguna form ? madhusphiitaa vaachaH paramamR^itaM nirmitavataH tava brahman.h kiM vaagapi suragurorvismayapadam.h | mama tvetaaM vaaNiiM guNakathanapuNyena bhavataH punaamiityarthe.asmin.h puramathana buddhirvyavasitaa O, Paramaatmaa (Greatest Soul), as you are the very creator of speech of the Vedas, which is like highest type of nectar and as sweet as honey, how can even the speech of Brahaspati (Guru, or spiritual guide of gods) surprise you ? (ie, the speech of even Brahaspati is worthless before you). O, Destroyer of Three Cities of the demons, thinking that my speech may become purified by this act, my intellect (Buddhi) has become prepared to sing your greatness. tavaish{}varyaM yattajjagadudayaraxaapralayakR^it.h trayiivastu vyastaM tisrushhu guNabhinnaasu tanushhu | abhavyaanaamasmin.h varada ramaNiiyaamaramaNiiM vihantuM vyaakroshiiM vidadhata ihaike jaDadhiyaH O, Giver of Boons, your greatness is the cause of creation, maintenance, and destruction of the whole universe; this is supported by three Vedas (ie, Rigveda, Yajurveda, and Saamaveda); it is distributed in the three qualities (ie, Satva, Rajas and Tamas) and three bodies (of Brahmaa, VishhNu and Mahesha). Such is your greatness but certain stupid persons in this world are trying to destroy it by slander, which may be delightful to them but is really undelightful. kimiihaH ki.nkaayaH sa khalu kimupaayastribhuvanaM kimaadhaaro dhaataa sR^ijati kimupaadaana iti cha | atarkyaishvarye tvayyanavasara duHstho hatadhiyaH kutarko.ayaM kaa.nshchit.h mukharayati mohaaya jagataH If the Paramaatmaa (the Greatest Soul) creates the three worlds (ie, the whole Universe), what is his gesture ? What is his body ? What is his plan ? What is his basis (support)? What are his means (instruments,resources) ? These are the useless questions raised by some stupid critics, in order to mislead people, against one (i.e., you) who always remains incompatible to senses. ajanmaano lokaaH kimavayavavanto.api jagataaM adhishhThaataaraM kiM bhavavidhiranaadR^itya bhavati | aniisho vaa kuryaad.h bhuvanajanane kaH parikaro yato mandaastvaaM pratyamaravara sa.nsherata ime O, Best Of The Gods, are the seven Lokas (It is believed that there are seven worlds in this Universe, namely, Bhooloka, Bhuvarloka, Svargaloka, Maharloka, Janaloka, Tapaloka, and Satyaloka) unborn ? Was the birth of the Universe independent of its Lord (ie, You) ? If it was so, then what were the means by which it was created that the stupid critics are creating doubts about you? (ie, you are the only creater of the whole Universe). trayii saaN^khyaM yogaH pashupatimataM vaishhNavamiti prabhinne prasthaane paramidamadaH pathyamiti cha | ruchiinaaM vaichitryaadR^ijukuTila naanaapathajushhaaM nR^iNaameko gamyastvamasi payasaamarNava iva The different practices based on the three Vedas, SaMkhya, Yoga, Pashupata-mata, VaishhNava-mata etc. are but different paths (to reach to the Greatest Truth) and people on account of their different aptitude choose from them whatever they think best and deserved to be accepted. But as the sea is the final resting place for all types of streams , You are the only reaching place for all people whichever path,straight or zigzag, they may accept. mahoxaH khaTvaaN^gaM parashurajinaM bhasma phaNinaH kapaalaM chetiiyattava varada tantropakaraNam.h | suraastaaM taamR^iddhiM dadhati tu bhavadbhuupraNihitaaM na hi svaatmaaraamaM vishhayamR^igatR^ishhNaa bhramayati O, Giver of the Boons, the bull, the parts of a cot, chisel, the elephant-skin, Ashes, the serpent, the skull : these are the articles of your house-hold. And yet gods get all their riches merely by the movement of your eye-brows. Really, false desires for worldly things do not deceive (mislead ) one who is always is absorbed in his soul ( ie, the Yogi- in fact You ). dhruvaM kashchit.h sarvaM sakalamaparastvadhruvamidaM paro dhrauvyaa.adhrauvye jagati gadati vyastavishhaye | samaste.apyetasmin.h puramathana tairvismita iva stuvan.h jihremi tvaaM na khalu nanu dhR^ishhTaa mukharataa || 9|| } O, Destroyer Of ( Three ) Cities, some persons call this Universe eternal ( ever lasting), others call it temporary, and yet others call it both eternal and temporary. Hence, being surprised ( perplexed ) by these contradictory opinions on this subject, I am really becoming immodest in loquaciously praising You. (9) tavaishvaryaM yatnAd.h yadupari viriJNchirhariradhaH parichchhetuM yAtAvanilamanalaskandhavapushhaH | tato bhaktishraddhA\-bharaguru\-gR^iNadbhyAM girisha yat.h svayaM tasthe tAbhyAM tava kimanuvR^ittirna phalati || 10|| } Brahma and VishhNu wanted to measure your wealth i.e.greatness. You took the form of Fire and your whole body was a column of fire extending over space. While Brahma took the form of a swan and flew high to see the top(head), VishhNu took the form of a boar and dug up downwards to see the bottom (feet).Neither could succeed.(While VishhNu confessed the truth, Brahma falsely claimed that he had found the top and persuaded the Ketaki flower to bear false witness.Shiva punished Brahma by removing one of his 5 heads and ordered that henceforth the Ketaki flower should not be used for his worship).When ultimately both praised you with full devotion and faith, you stood before them revealing your normal form. O, mountain-dweller, does not toeing your line always bear fruit? (10) ayatnAdAsaadya tribhuvanamavairavyatikaraM dashaasyo yadbAhUnabhR^ita\-raNakaNDU\-paravashAn.h | shiraHpadmashreNI\-rachitacharaNAmbhoruha\-baleH sthirAyAstvadbhaktestripurahara visphUrjitamidam.h || 11|| } Oh,destroyer of the three cities! The effortless achievement of the ten-headed Ravana in making the three worlds enemyless( having conquered) and his arrant eagerness for further fight by stretching his arms,are but the result of his constant devotion to your lotus feet at which he ever laid the lotus garland consisting of his 10 heads! (11) amushhya tvatsevA\-samadhigatasAraM bhujavanaM balAt.h kailaase.api tvadadhivasatau vikramayataH | alabhyApAtAle.apyalasachalitA.ngushhThashirasi pratishhThA tvayyAsId.h dhruvamupachito muhyati khalaH || 12|| } Having obtained all his prowess through worshipping you, RavaNa once dared to test the power of his arms at your own dwelling place(Kailas Mountain). When he tried to lift it up, you just moved a toe of your foot on a head of his and lo! Ravana could not find rest or peace even in the nether-world. Surely, power maddens the wicked. Finally RavaNa reestablished his faith in you. (12) yadR^iddhiM sutrAmNo varada paramochchairapi satIM adhashchakre bANaH parijanavidheyatribhuvanaH | na tachchitraM tasmin.h varivasitari tvachcharaNayoH na kasyApyunnatyai bhavati shirasastvayyavanatiH || 13|| } Oh boon-giver! BaaNa, the demon king made all the three worlds serve him with all their attendants and even the greatest wealth of Indra was a trifle for him. It was not a surprise at all, since he `dwelt' in your feet; who does not rise in life by bowing his head to you? (13) akANDa\-brahmANDa\-xayachakita\-devAsurakR^ipA vidheyasyA.a.asId.h yastrinayana vishhaM sa.nhR^itavataH | sa kalmAshhaH kaNThe tava na kurute na shriyamaho vikAro.api shlAghyo bhuvana\-bhaya\- bhaN^ga\- vyasaninaH || 14|| } When the ocean was being churned by the gods and demons for `amRit.h'(nectar),various objects came forth: at one point, there emerged the `kAlakUTa' poison which threatened to consume everything. The gods as well as the demons were stunned at the prospect of the entire universe coming to an end, O, three-eyed lord, who is ever compassionate and engaged in removing the fear of the world, you took it(poison) on yourself by consuming it. (On Parvati's holding Shiva's throat at that point, the poison froze blue there itself and Shiva became `neelakanTha'). It is strange that this stain in your neck, though appearing to be a deformity, actually adds to your richness and personality. (14) asiddhArthA naiva kvachidapi sadevAsuranare nivartante nityaM jagati jayino yasya vishikhAH | sa pashyannIsha tvAmitarasurasaadhAraNamabhUt.h smaraH smartavyAtmA na hi vashishhu pathyaH paribhavaH || 15|| } The cupid's(love-god `manmatha's) (flower) arrows never return unaccomplished whether the victims were gods or demons or men. However O, master! he has now become just a remembered soul (without body),since he looked upon you as any other ordinary god, shot his arrow and got burnt to ashes,in no time. Insulting, masters (who have controlled their senses), does one no good. (15) mahI pAdaaghAtAd.h vrajati sahasA sa.nshayapadaM padaM vishhNorbhrAmyad.h bhuja\-parigha\-rugNa\-graha\- gaNam.h | muhurdyaurdausthyaM yAtyanibhR^ita\-jaTA\-taaDita\-taTA jagadraxAyai tvaM naTasi nanu vAmaiva vibhutA || 16|| } You dance for protecting the world, but strangely, your glorious act appears to produce the opposite result in that the earth suddenly struck by your dancing feet doubts that it is coming to an end; even VishhNu's domain is shaken in fear when your mace like arms bruise the planets; the godly region feels miserable when its banks are struck by your agitated matted locks (of hair)! (16) viya\dvyaa pI tArA\-gaNa\-guNita\-phenodgama\-ruchiH pravAho vArAM yaH pR^ishhatalaghudR^ishhTaH shirasi te | jagaddvIpAkAraM jaladhivalayaM tena kR^itamiti anenaivonneyaM dhR^itamahima divyaM tava vapuH || 17|| } The divine river flows extensively through the sky and its charm is enhanced by the illumination of the foam by the groups of stars. (Brought down to the earth by the King Bhagiratha by propitiating Lord Shiva and known as Ganga) it creates many islands and whirlpools on the earth. The same turbulent river appears like a mere droplet of water on your head. This itself shows how lofty and divine your body(form) is! (17) rathaH xoNI yantA shatadhR^itiragendro dhanuratho rathAN^ge chandrArkau ratha\-charaNa\-pANiH shara iti | didhaxoste ko.ayaM tripuratR^iNamADambara vidhiH vidheyaiH krIDantyo na khalu paratantrAH prabhudhiyaH || 18|| } When you wanted to burn the three cities, you had the earth as the chariot, Brahma as the charioteer,the Meru mountain as the bow, the sun and the moon as the parts of the chariot and VishhNu himself(who holds the chariot-wheeel in his hand -Sudarshan chakra?), as the arrow. Why this demonstrative show when you as the dictator of everything, could have done the job as a trifle? The Lord's greatness is not dependent on anybody or anything. ( Incidentally there is a view that the burning of the three cities would refer to the burning of three kinds of bodies of man i.e. `sthUla sharIra', `sUkshma sharIra' and `kAraNa sharIra'). (18) hariste sAhasraM kamala balimAdhAya padayoH yadekone tasmin.h nijamudaharannetrakamalam.h | gato bhaktyudrekaH pariNatimasau chakravapushhaH trayANAM raxAyai tripurahara jAgarti jagatAm.h || 19|| } VishhNu once brought 1000 lotuses and was placing them at your feet; after placing 999 flowers he found that one was missing; he plucked out one of his own eyes and offered it as a lotus; this supreme exemplification of devotion on his part was transformed into the wheel (sudarshana chakra) in his hand, which he uses for protecting the world. (19) kratau supte jAgrat.h tvamasi phalayoge kratumatAM kva karma pradhvastaM phalati purushhArAdhanamR^ite | atastvAM samprexya kratushhu phaladaana\-pratibhuvaM shrutau shraddhAM badhvA dR^iDhaparikaraH karmasu janaH || 20|| } You ensure that there is a connection between cause and effect and hence when men perform a sacrifice they obtain good results. Otherwise how can there be future result for a past action? Thus on seeing your power in rewarding people performing sacrificial worship, with good results, men believe in Vedas and firmly engage themselves in various worshipful acts. (20) kriyAdaxo daxaH kratupatiradhIshastanubhR^itAM R^ishhINAmArtvijyaM sharaNada sadasyAH sura\-gaNAH | kratubhra.nshastvattaH kratuphala\-vidhAna\-vyasaninaH dhruvaM kartuM shraddhA vidhuramabhichArAya hi makhAH || 21|| } All the same,O Protector. though you exert to reward all sacrifices. those done without faith in you become counter-productive, as exemplified in the case of the sacrifice performed by Daksha; Daksha was well-versed in the art of sacrifices and himself the Lord of Creation; besides, he was the chief performer: the great maharishis were the priests and the various gods were the participants! (Daksha did not invite Shiva and insulted him greatly; thus enraged, Shiva destroyed the sacrifice and Daksha too). (21) prajAnAthaM nAtha prasabhamabhikaM svAM duhitaraM gataM rohid.h bhuutAM riramayishhumR^ishhyasya vapushhA | dhanushhpANeryAtaM divamapi sapatrAkR^itamamuM trasantaM te.adyApi tyajati na mR^igavyAdharabhasaH || 22|| } O, Protector! Once Brahma became infatuated with his own daughter. When she fled taking the form of a female deer he also took the form of a male deer and chased her. You took the form of a hunter and went after him, with a bow in hand. Struck by your arrow and very much frightened, Brahma fled to the sky taking the form of a star. Even today he stands frightened by you. (22) svalAvaNyAsha.nsA dhR^itadhanushhamahnAya tR^iNavat.h puraH plushhTaM dR^ishhTvA puramathana pushhpAyudhamapi | yadi straiNaM devI yamanirata\-dehArdha\-ghaTanAt.h avaiti tvAmaddhA bata varada mugdhA yuvatayaH || 23|| } O, destroyer of the three cities! Boon-giver! Practitioner of austerities! Before the very eyes of Parvati, you reduced Manmatha (the god of love) to ashes,the moment he tried to arouse passion in you for Parvati, by shooting his famous flower arrows. Even after witnessing this, if Parvati, thinks that you are attracted by her physical charm, on the basis of your sharing half the body with her, certainly women are under self-delusion. (23) shmashAneshhvAkrIDA smarahara pishAchAH sahacharaaH chitA\-bhasmAlepaH sragapi nR^ikaroTI\-parikaraH | amaN^galyaM shIlaM tava bhavatu nAmaivamakhilaM tathApi smartR^INAM varada paramaM maN^galamasi || 24|| } O,boon giver! O,destroyer of Cupid! You play in the burning ghats. your friends are the ghosts. Your body is smeared with the ashes of the dead bodies. Your garland is of human skulls. Every aspect of your character is thus inauspicious. Let it be. It does not matter. Because, with all these known oddness, you are quick to grant all auspicious things to the people who just think of you. (It is interesting to note here that in his Devi aparaadha kshamApana stotra Shankaracharya says that,despite his poor and deficient possessions,Shiva got the power to grant boons entirely because because of his having taken the hand of Parvathi in marriage; in the previous shloka, Pushhpadanta calls it naive on the part of Parvati, if she thinks that Shiva is attracted by her charm simply because he is sharing half the body with her.This dichotomy etc. is due to the custom that when a particular lord is to be extolled, the other gods are to be belittled to some extent). (24) manaH pratyak.h chitte savidhamavidhAyAtta\-marutaH prahR^ishhyadromANaH pramada\-salilotsaN^gati\-dR^ishaH | yadAlokyAhlAdaM hrada iva nimajyAmR^itamaye dadhatyantastattvaM kimapi yaminastat.h kila bhavAn.h || 25|| } The great yogis regulate their breath, control and still their mind, look inward and enjoy the bliss with their hair standing on edge and eyes filled with tears of joy. It looks as though they are immersed in nectar. That bliss which they see in their heart and exult thus, is verily you Yourself! (25) tvamarkastvaM somastvamasi pavanastvaM hutavahaH tvamApastvaM vyoma tvamu dharaNirAtmA tvamiti cha | parichchhinnAmevaM tvayi pariNatA bibhrati giraM na vidmastattattvaM vayamiha tu yat.h tvaM na bhavasi || 26|| } You are the sun, the moon, the air, the fire, the water, the sky(ether/space), and the earth (the five elements or `bhUtA's). You are the Self which is omnipresent. Thus people describe in words every attribute as yours. On the other hand, I do not know any fundamental principle or thing or substance, which you are not! (26) trayIM tisro vR^ittIstribhuvanamatho trInapi surAn.h akArAdyairvarNaistribhirabhidadhat.h tIrNavikR^iti | turIyaM te dhAma dhvanibhiravarundhAnamaNubhiH samasta\-vyastaM tvAM sharaNada gR^iNAtyomiti padam.h || 27|| } O, grantor of refuge and protection! The word `OM' consists of the three letters `a', `u' and `m'. It refers to the three Vedas(Rik, YajuH and SAma), the three states (Jaagrat.h, Swapna, and sushhupti-awakened, dreaming and sleeping),the three worlds(BhUH, bhuvaH and suvaH) and the three gods (Brahma, VishhNu amd Mahesha).It refers to you yourself both through the individual letters as well as collectively; in the latter form (i.e. the total word `OM') it refers to your omnipresent absolute nature,as the fourth state of existence i.e `turIyaM' (sleep-like yet awakened and alert state, as a fully- drawn bow). (27) bhavaH sharvo rudraH pashupatirathograH sahamahAn.h tathA bhImeshAnAviti yadabhidhAnAshhTakamidam.h | amushhmin.h pratyekaM pravicharati deva shrutirapi priyAyAsmaidhAmne praNihita\-namasyo.asmi bhavate || 28|| } I salute you as the dear abode of the following 8 names:bhava, sharva, rudra, pashupati, ugra, sahamahAn.h, bhiima, and Ishaana; the `Vedas' also discusses individually about these names. (28) namo nedishhThAya priyadava davishhThAya cha namaH namaH xodishhThAya smarahara mahishhThAya cha namaH | namo varshhishhThAya trinayana yavishhThAya cha namaH namaH sarvasmai te tadidamatisarvAya cha namaH || 29|| } O, destroyer of Cupid! O, the three-eyed one! Salutations to you, who is the forest-lover, the nearest and the farthest; the minutest and the biggest, the oldest and the youngest; salutations to you who is everything and beyond everything! (29) bahula\-rajase vishvotpattau bhavAya namo namaH prabala\-tamase tat.h saMhAre harAya namo namaH | jana\-sukhakR^ite sattvodriktau mR^iDAya namo namaH pramahasi pade nistraiguNye shivAya namo namaH || 30|| } Salutations to you in the name of'Bhava' in as much as you create the world by taking the `rajas' as the dominant quality; salutations to you in the name of `Hara' in as much as you destroy the world by taking the `tamas' as the dominant quality; salutations to you in the name of `MRiDa', in as much as you maintain and protect the world by taking `satva' as the dominant quality. Again salutations to you in the name of Shiva in as much as you are beyond the above-mentioned three qualities and are the seat of the supreme bliss. (30) kR^isha\-pariNati\-chetaH kleshavashyaM kva chedaM kva cha tava guNa\-sImollaN^ghinI shashvadR^iddhiH | iti chakitamamandIkR^itya mAM bhaktirAdhAd.h varada charaNayoste vAkya\-pushhpopahAram.h || 31|| } O, boon-giver! I was very perplexed to sing your praise considering my little awareness and afflicted mind vis-a-vis your ever increasing limitless quality; however, my devotion to you made me set aside this diffidence and place these floral lines at your feet. (31) asita\-giri\-samaM syAt.h kajjalaM sindhu\-pAtre sura\-taruvara\-shAkhA lekhanI patramurvI | likhati yadi gR^ihItvaa shAradA sarvakAlaM tadapi tava guNAnAmIsha pAraM na yAti || 32|| } O, great master! Even, if one were to assume that the blue mountain , the ocean, the heavenly tree and the earth are the ink,the ink-pot, the pen and the paper respectively and the goddess of learning (Saraswati) herself is the writer,she will not be able to reach the frontiers of your greatness,however long she were to write! (32) asura\-sura\-munIndrairarchitasyendu\-mauleH grathita\-guNamahimno nirguNasyeshvarasya | sakala\-gaNa\-varishhThaH pushhpadantAbhidhAnaH ruchiramalaghuvR^ittaiH stotrametachchakAra || 33|| } The best one among all groups(Gandharva?), Pushhpadanta by name, composed this charming hymn in none too short metres, in praise of the great lord who wears the moon in his head(Shiva), who is worshipped and glorified by all demons, gods and sages and who is beyond all attributes and forms. (33) aharaharanavadyaM dhUrjaTeH stotrametat.h paThati paramabhaktyA shuddha\-chittaH pumAn.h yaH | sa bhavati shivaloke rudratulyastathA.atra prachuratara\-dhanAyuH putravAn.h kIrtimA.nshcha || 34|| } Whoever reads this faultless hymn of Shiva daily, with pure mind and great devotion, ultimately reaches Shiva's domain and becomes equal to him; in this world, he is endowed with children, great wealth, long life and fame. (34) maheshAnnAparo devo mahimno nAparA stutiH | aghorAnnAparo mantro nAsti tattvaM guroH param.h || 35|| } There is no God higher than Mahesha; there is no hymn better than this one. There is no `mantra' greater than `OM' and there is no truth or principle beyond one's teacher/spiritual guide. (35) dIxA dAnaM tapastIrthaM GYAnaM yAgAdikAH kriyAH | mahimnastava pAThasya kalAM nArhanti shhoDashIm.h || 36|| } Initiation(into spiritual development), charity, penance, pilgrimage,spiritual knowledge and religious acts like sacrifices are not capable of yielding even one-sixteenth of the return that will result from the reading of this hymn. (36) kusumadashana\-nAmA sarva\-gandharva\-rAjaH shashidharavara\-maulerdevadevasya dAsaH | sa khalu nija\-mahimno bhrashhTa evAsya roshhAt.h stavanamidamakArshhId.h divya\-divyaM mahimnaH || 37|| } Kusumadanta(equivalent of Pushhpadanta) was the king of all Gandharvas and he was a devotee of the Lord of lords, Shiva, who wears the baby moon (with a few digits only) in his head. He fell from his glorious position due to Shiva's wrath at his misconduct. It was then that the Gandharva composed this hymn which is the most divine. (37) suragurumabhipUjya svarga\-moxaika\-hetuM paThati yadi manushhyaH prAJNjalirnAnya\-chetAH | vrajati shiva\-samIpaM kinnaraiH stUyamAnaH stavanamidamamoghaM pushhpadantapraNItam.h || 38|| } If an aspirant for heaven and liberation, worships Shiva,the teacher of gods, at first and then reads this unfailing hymn, composed by Pushhpadanta, with folded hands and single-mindedness, he attains Shiva's abode, being praised by `kinnaras'(a group of semi-gods known for their singing talent). (38) AsamAptamidaM stotraM puNyaM gandharva\-bhAshhitam.h | anaupamyaM manohAri sarvamIshvaravarNanam.h || 39|| } Here ends this meritorious,charming and incomparable hymn, uttered by the Gandharva, all in description of the great master. (39) ityeshhA vA{N^}mayI pUjA shrImachchhaN^kara\-pAdayoH | arpitA tena deveshaH prIyatAM me sadaashivaH || 40|| } Thus, this worship in the form of words, is dedicated at the feet of Shri Shankara; may the ever-auspicious lord of the gods be pleased with this. (40) tava tattvaM na jAnAmi kIdR^isho.asi maheshvara | yAdR^isho.asi mahAdeva tAdR^ishAya namo namaH || 41|| } I do not know the truth of your nature and how you are. O, great God! My Salutations are to that nature of yours of which you really are. (41) ekakAlaM dvikAlaM vA trikAlaM yaH paThennaraH | sarvapApa\-vinirmuktaH shiva loke mahIyate || 42|| } Whoever reads this once, twice or thrice (in a day) revels in the domain of Shiva, bereft of all sins. (42) shrI pushhpadanta\-mukha\-paN^kaja\-nirgatena stotreNa kilbishha\-hareNa hara\-priyeNa | kaNThasthitena paThitena samaahitena suprINito bhavati bhUtapatirmaheshaH || 43|| } This hymn which is dear to Shiva, has emerged out of the lotus-like mouth of Pushhpadanta and is capable of removing all sins. May the lord of all beings become greatly pleased with anyone who has learnt this by heart and/or reads or recalls this with single-mindedness! (43) || iti shrI pushhpadanta virachitaM shivamahimnaH \\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ stotraM samAptam.h || Thus ends the `shivamahimna hymn' composed by Pushhpadanta.

sanathana, Sorry, I do not wish to continue in this thread as it takes very long time viewing the site so, I'll post it in a new thread.

Your explanations are vague. Need to be specific about God's qualities and needs. ....How does one feel the presence of God?... Here I did not touch on atheist so I do not need to know what they feel but waht about the believers and specially Hindus is what I need to know as we are only discussing about Hinduism. ....What is within your self but you cannot see but feel?... You gave me a wrong answer for the above which mean to tell me that either you do not undestand my question or your knowledge of spritual bliss is zero. I'm sorry to say it bluntly but most who speak about the gita and greatness of Krishna are just parrots being tought only to quote but fail to understand the hidden meaning in it. I do wish to further this as I know your level of spritual knowledge fom your answers to my quetion.

Your explanations are vague. Need to be specific about God's qualities and needs. ....How does one feel the presence of God?... Here I did not touch on atheist so I do not need to know what they feel but waht about the believers and specially Hindus is what I need to know as we are only discussing about Hinduism. ....What is within your self but you cannot see but feel?... You gave me a wrong answer for the above which mean to tell me that either you do not undestand my question or your knowledge of spritual bliss is zero. I'm sorry to say it bluntly but most who speak about the gita and greatness of Krishna are just parrots being tought only to quote but fail to understand the hidden meaning in it. I do wish to further this as I know your level of knowledge.

It takes two to tango. A girl should follow the husband's path only than the family will be at peace and likewise if a Christian girl falls in love with a Hindu man than she should follow her husbands path that is Hinduism. Do not be bias. Being a Hindu never give wrong advice just to increase Hindu quota. This goes to all religions. A woman should always follow her husbands path and that is dharma.

They also glorified the following and does this mean they too are supreme. Do not take anythng out of context and say this is the truth. The real truth has no face and you are giving one and saying this is it. How ignorant one can be. How about these followng hymns than? Indra Marvelous Indra, always to be worshipped with hymns and salutations. Those who desire to observe the eternal rites and those who desiring riches are wise enough to invoke you and seek your presence. Like loving wives touching their loving husbands, their thoughts touch you, O mighty Indra. (Rig Veda I.62) Usha Dawn, daughter of the sky, rise with your riches for our welfare. Rise with ample food. O Goddess of the dawn, rise and give us your wealth. (Rig Veda I.48) Fire Like a boat over the river, take us across for our welfare. O Fire, let our sins depart from us. (Rig Veda I.97.8) The one and the many ...They call Him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and even the swift winged celestial bird Gautaman. The learned speak of the One Reality in many ways. They call Him Agni, Yama and Matarisvan. (Rig Veda I. 164.) Fire O Fire, lead us to riches along the right path. Shining God, you know the minds of all. Separate us from the sin that moves crookedly. Profuse words of praise we offer you. (Rig Veda I.180.1) Rudra O Rudra, through the cures administered by you, may we pass through a hundred winters. Drive away from us haters. Destroy our sins completely and destroy the spreading sicknesses. (Rig Veda II.33.2) Gayatri We meditate upon that adorable effulgence of the resplendent Savitur, the life giver. May he stimulate our intellects. (Rig Veda II.62.10) Worship Obeisance is all powerful. I perform obeisance. Obeisance is the pillar of the earth and the heaven. Obeisance to the gods. Obeisance wins them over. With obeisance I rectify the wrongs, I might have done to them. (Rig Veda VI.51.8) Indra O My lord Indra, do not subject us to the rule of him who speaks harshly and insultingly, and who is mean and selfish. May my thoughts be with you. (Rig Veda VII.31) Varuna Whatever offence we might have given to the divine beings, or whatever moral order we in our ignorance might have violated, O Varuna, punish us not for such sins. (Rig Veda VII.89.3) Cremation To the sun let your eyes go, to the wind your life-breath. By the good deeds you have done, go to the heaven and then come back again to live on the earth or take to the waters if you are comfortable with it. Remain in the herbs with the bodies you intend to take. (Rig Veda X.16.3) Friendship He who abandons a friend who knows his duty of friendship, has no worth in what he speaks. What he hears is also false and he does not know the path of righteous action. (Rig Veda X.71.6) A Marriage vow I take hold of your hand for good fortune, so that with me, your husband, you may attain to old age. The gods, Bhaga, Aryaman, Savitur and Pushan gave you to me for leading the life of a householder. (Rig Veda X. 85.36) A marriage blessing Bounteous Indra, endow this bride with great sons and fortune. Give her ten sons and make the husband the eleventh. (Rig Veda X.85.46) Your heart is the abode of God ...Like a lotus turned downwards is the heart, a span below the neck and a span above the navel. Know that heart to be the abode of God. Surrounded by nerves, it hangs down like a lotus bud. At its end is a subtle nerve, in which is established the Being, who is everything. A great fire is at its center, which has flames all around, spreading in all directions. It is the first partaker, the ageless knower, who digests and circulates food. Above and below are its spreading flames. It keeps its body hot from head to feet. At its core lies a flame, tapering finely upwards, like the awn of corn, yellow, bright and subtle, flashing like a lightening in the heart of a dark cloud. At the center of this flame is installed the Supreme Being. He is Brahman. He is Siva. He is Indra. He is the indestructible Supreme Being, the lord Himself. ( Excerpts from the Taittariya Aranyaka III.13) Sharing of wealth and food The gods have given not hunger but death. And he who eats is subject to deaths. The wealth of the generous never decreases. The miserly person has nothing that can give him happiness. The mean minded gathers food in vain. I speak the truth, it is indeed his death. He who nourishes neither the god nor a friend, he who eats alone, gathers sin. (Rig Veda X. 117) The Hymn of Creation At that time there was neither existence nor non-existence, neither the worlds nor the sky. There was nothing that was beyond. There was no death, nor immortality. There was no knowledge of the day and night. That one alone breathed, without air, by itself. Besides that there was nothing. Darkness there was enveloped by darkness. All this was one water, without any distinction. It was inactive, covered by void. That one became active by the power of its own thought. There came upon it at first desire, which was the first seed of the mind. Men of vision found in their meditative state, the connection between the Being and the Non-Being. All gods were subsequent to this creative activity. Then who knows from where this came into existence! Where this creation came from , whether He supported it or not, He who is controlling it from the highest of the heavens, He perhaps knows it or He knows it not ! (Rig Veda X.129) 8) DATA RADHANSI SHUMBHATI | ---------(22/8, Rigveda) The sun, the giver of all Siddhis (powers) is rising. The rising sun is the giver of Energy, heat and is the giver of all powers. In the same way you also alike the rising sun (Sun God) give all equal knowledge and inspiration by which we benefit. Alike the energy and heat of the sun which beneficial, you also can realise the importance and be blessed by happiness and prosperity. (18) RITASYA DEVA, ANUVRATA GURBHUVAT PARISHTIRDYON BHUM --------(65/2, Rigveda) The gods [here it is plural many Gods]adhered to all types of penances such as truth and fulfillment of other vows. It is because of their constant efforts that earth became happy as the heaven. You must learn to understand the full before making assumption. There is only one energy that does the work of all and the elders had divide it and given names so that a lay man should learn to respect he various aspects of nature. But those calling themselves the intellectuals are no different from an illetrate. Absurd!

Please explain the qualities of God, which I think you should know by now. It's not to test your intelligence but to make it more clear to others. How does one feel the presence of God? What is within your self but you cannot see but feel? What is kundalani and its final stage? Need your clarification before I go further. Thanks.

Having read the scriptures and chanting hare krishna is not spritual knowledge. One has to merge with it. You can write and quote from Gita and so forth but that does not give you the authority to condemn another coz you do not know the depth of one's spritual understanding and closeness one has with God. You are following something that some one discovered but why can't you discover the same in a different perspective? The reason is you have inadequate comprehension of the unseen God and so you blabber like parrot which I can understand is your nature. I'm more happy to leave this body as soon as possible coz I dislike the state of this world. But, I have to live up to karma and it's destiny set forth by my pervious birth. You have no control or authority over atman and it is foolish of you to tell me to be serious about spritual knowledge shows you do not comprehend what was hidden in my writing. This clearly shows your stupidity and I forgive you as it is your karma to behave as such.

THE GOD I KNOW. It's strange that we human being with six sense sometime are minus with all the sense. We are born with a unique organ we call the BRAIN. In general one can explain what the brain's functions is but not everyone is able to fully utilize the service of the brain. Let's forget about the retarded and brain dead people but what about normal beings, as far as science is concern only a fraction of the world population makes full use of their brain. This gift one can say is from the creator we call God but what would non -believers say? For them it is nature's gift to man. Animals too have brain but theirs are utilized solely for survival whereas man has to use it for expansion of his species in all aspects. Finding remedies for sickness, developing technology for the comfort of human society on the whole and looking beyond earth for future survival. But when the subject of religion is discussed many differ in thought. The reason is our brain, as it provides the thinking capacity for reasoning and cultivating intellectual thoughts. But there are those or some human beings who do not have such capacity although their brain functions as normal otherwise. It does not give the signal for thinking further and so becomes dysfunctional [in not activating full use] in certain areas. Sages or Rishis as we know them be discovered the theory of God and their writings, which we call scriptures, provides vital information of the creation of the universe and beings. They did not attend Harvard or obtained any PhD to write volumes and volumes of scripts providing information in science and medicine. We accepted their theories as the solemn truth without question or rather people of that age did so. They categorized human race by class and treated the lower class as dirt. That is the truth and no one can deny that. The learned were considered of the highest class [brahmins were the only learned at the time] while the warriors are considered as the second class and the business people were considered as third class and the workers such as farmers, grave diggers, sweepers and herders were considered the lowest class. It was considered a standard of practice of the era as it was the Sages who were considered to be above all and rulers abide by their advice. It is stated in the Vedas that man is considered the body of God for reason that the Brahmin was created from the mouth of God, business people were created from his stomach, warrior from his knee and worker [the untouchables] were created from his feet. Common sense would tell us that if we consider man was created from his body than we should respect all classes, as we love God. But we do not do so and why is that? The answer lies in the misinterpretation of our scriptures. In India there are two class of Brahmin one in the north and the other in the south and this too is divided into race Brahmins according to the spoken language. From there again it is divided into several sub class such as the Vaishnavas and Shivaits and so on. Between them they disagree on the practice and belief. One group would say Vishnu is supreme while the other would say Shiva and it does not end there. You will find those who worship mother Durga [sakthism] would say she is the supreme power, while people of other class would just have listen to them and obey what they say without question because when one questions he would be considered nastigan [unbeliever] as they believe the others do not have the qualification to question or debate the issues at hand. Well, such days are gone and we are in the twenty first century and India is not ruled by kings who or sages. Time had passed for such and it is now time to explore and question. I am not writing this to ridicule the Brahmin cast or question the existence of the Almighty God in whatever form he may be. We do not have Vysa or Vashista or any other sages today to clarify their claim but we have our brain to think and explore the truth. Through the study and understanding of our scriptures I can only say this, no matter how powerful the sages were of the time they fail to realize the power of the brain. They did not realize that whatever they perceived from their meditation and knowledge received did not make them understand that it was their own doing and that is the power within. The atmosphere is absorbed in energy of the universe and all one has to do is absorb that energy and your atman will be ignited. That is what precisely what the sages did and how their brain systematically worked out all details. The Brahmins who came after that did not know of the secret but just followed what was written in the scripts of the past. To my assumption the seven sages where none other than super humans with ability to do anything out of the ordinary but the generation below them lost that power due to ignorance and blind faith. God as I have said earlier is but all in our mind and we created him to be so. He or the super energy is within all man and to tap that energy needs discipline and righteous life and you become self-Brahman. What is lacking in a human being today? God is not sitting somewhere daily creating babies. It’s man who is creating the new life through the union of woman who is equally important in this world. I’m not saying God is not Krishna or Vishnu or Shiva or Brahma. These are all one and names given by the sages of later period not of the early period. It is the energy that man first began to honor and pray. Sun the most powerful energy that illuminates the whole world, which cannot be conquered but can be tapped for useful purpose, is an energy that first man began to receive onto him. Sun, was regarded as life giving God in early days of man because without it man would live in total darkness for twenty four hours a day not knowing when to go to bed and when to rise. Without the sun there would be no oxygen and we could not survive. Without sun there would not be any growth and we would not be here today. The Sun plays an important part in all living entity but only man knows its importance and was considered as God by the early man. But the most important is the energy that is produced by the Sun which man should absorb in order to attain the highest level as our ancestors who were regarded as direct representatives of God. The truth is that they too were Gods whom the later sages did not realize. They misinterpreted the truth in realizing that man himself is his own creation and the power to attain that is within us. Don’t be despair, in actual fact the energy that we seek can be called in any name such as Krishna, Shiva, Ganesha, Durga or Muruga. The names, mentioned as God are all within us and it is up to us to fuse ourselves into that energy. Call me a fool if you want but if you do not explore you would be left in the dark till next life. Do not seek God elsewhere but within thyself because out there is nothing but stars and galaxies. You can condemn me for my thoughts but if you do not realize the truth than you become the fool in the end. So, Sai Baba calling himself God is not wrong, as he knows the truth whereas those who are ignorant are seeking God elsewhere not realizing he is within them. Barney.

None can answer except follow what is written in the scriptures of Hindus, Christians, Jews and Muslims. Can any one tell me where is God at this very moment and in what form he is now? None, all they can say is he might be like this and that without any conclusive evidence. Hinduism says God is formless like the others but he can take a form when he feels the need. God is Omnipresent as the candle light that shines in all direction. So, to say God is only in Krishna's form is mere speculation. Which would you prefer one who is beside you, who can comfort you in time of distress or the one who is not present and whom you could not see in person? Sai devotees feel the comfort and the energy Sai Baba emits that comforts his devotees, something like an assurance that I'm here do not worry. God of course is all prevailing but you do not know where he is or when he is appearing. He could be anywhere in any form to test man's faith in him. He could appear as a hermit or a begger directly opposite you and you could be ignoring him for the state he is. And so you missed him this time and he may appear again as a stranger asking for direction and you fear coz he is a stranger and yet you missed him again. What does all tis mean? This what we call in Hinduism that God would test your faith in him and to see if your heart is clean. Just talking about the scriptures or mastering the Vedas is not important. What is important is how much you know about God and his work and the millions of jivas around you. They are all interconnected in a way. It is not that easy to explain but you have to experience it. Just singing hare krishna alone would not get you a ticket to haven. The question is how much love and respect do you have for your fellow human beings and all other creatures of God's creation in this world. You can think of God in any form dictated in the scriptures and it does not matter coz he is all and one. It is said God is within you and your heart is the temple but do you behave as one? If God resides in you than you must love all as you love yourself. Sai Baba may or may not be an avatar but learn what he is preaching. He has not introduced any new doctorine or set of new laws for human beings. He is reviving the scriptures as what Jesus did. He says love is the only medicine that man needs to have peace in this world as he quotes from the Gita and Vedas. Can you condemn a man for such? I know what the Guadaya or Krishna followers think. They did that 2000 years ago when Buddha announced his mission. They condemn him and abused and punished his followers untill they were all driven out of the province as what the Jews did to Jesus and his folowers. I'm not propagating Sai mission here but merely pointng out the evil mind of people like the guest here. Sorry, I have nothing against you or anyone in this forum nor do I want to pick a fight here. I have not seen or spoken to Baba but have read his message to the world and heard close experience of his followers. How can I condemn a man for preaching love and God's mission on earth. Let him call himself to be incarnation of God so what, has he taken away your right to chose your diety or has he forced you to give up what you believe in? Neither of it and yet some of them here are angry and furious because he has a large following. Even some Vaishnavas think of him as Krishna incarnate and the Christians see in him the Jesus they have not seen before but the paintings of Leonardo Da Vince. I am a Hindu by birth and I believe God is Omnipresent and Omnipotent which is why I say he could take any form any time and we do not have the power to question his action. Just do not talk and debate about our scriptures but start with action. Show your true love for God by loving his creatures and showing passion towards the needy and sick irrespective of their status and religious belief. That's all I ask.

Do anyone here can vouch for you that I disclaim Krishna as God? You must be and idiot all tis while not reading my post carefully. You have taken out of contex and reporting like unethical media reporters. Kishna is the ninth avatar of maha vishnu and no Hindu can deny that not even me. So, you have picked the wrong posting here. My point here is Every form of God be it Krishna, Vishnu, Shiva, Ganesha, Durga and Murugan is important in Hinduism. The choice is yours but if you pick one and despise the others amount to cult worship and HK to me is a cult. I have heard and seen them acting like one. Sai Baba may be ugly to you but not to his followers who are Hindus, Christians and Muslims. It's his teachings and his psychic power one should see and not his look. Here again you are showing your racism and prejudice against a person you have not even met in person or spoken to. Just reading the nagative report of fools, you to have joined the bandwagon of fools. Good for your foolish thoughts and if it is your karma to stay stupid no one can help it. Good day.

Your reply: Nowhere in the gItA is it described that Krishna took "human birth." __________ This is what is stated of the birth of Krishna: "On the day Kamsa's sister Devaki was married off to Vasudeva, an akashvani or voice from the sky was heard prophesying that Devaki's 8th son would be the destroyer of Kamsa. At midnight on ashtami, the divine baby was born in Kamsa's prison". Do you deny that this was not so? __________ Your reply: That isn't the word used. In fact, this is not even the language that is used. __________ So what ? As long as it has been traslated. Are you claiming that no scholars could traslate Sanskrit? Please do not display your idiocy in this forum. Just because you are foolish does not mean all has to follow your foolishness. __________ You commented: It truly is a sign of terminal idiocy when one makes up "evidence" and then uses it to come to a false conclusion. Have you even read the bhAgavata? Nevermind. It's obvious you have not. __________ That is your assumption and I need not have to blow my trumpet to every Tom, Dick and Harry that I have read the Gita. Anway, judging from your replies I can gather you are nothing but a arrogant idiot who is quick at accusing others of misconduct whithout knowing that person. You will make a good false wittness in the courts. May be earn a tidy sum in helping criminal lawyers as wittness, which I think is a good vocation for people like you. __________ Your comment: Oh sure, the objective accounts of his objective devotees. Yeah, that's real smart. __________ It's obvious you know nothing of him [swami Ramalingam Adikhal]. From what I gather you are one bloke who is prejudice against southern saints. You are racist and calling yourself a Krishna devotee is a shame. __________ Your comment: Prove to me now that Krishna was "born." You cannot, because such a thing is never stated. On the contrary, all the shAstra-s describe Him as unborn. As far as His "growing up," there is nothing about this that denies the possibility of His having a transcendental body. __________ So, you are saying that there was no such prophecy of the birth of Krishna and Kamsa's vengence in trying to kill him at birth? CHAPTER VII of the Gita. Earth, water, flame, air, ether, life, and mind, And individuality- those eight Make up the showing of Me, Manifest. Here to is mentioned of his birth: Kŗşhņa, Son of Devaki The Chāndogya Upanishad gives a special teaching in the sections (3.17.1-3.17.5). The section (3.17.6) states: “Ghora Āňgiras expounded this well-known doctrine to Devaki's son Kŗşhņa and said; ‘such a knower should, at the time of death, repeat this triad: akşhitamasi You are imperishable achyutamasi You are unchangeable prāņasamshitamasi You are the subtle essence of Prāņa’ (On hearing the above) he (Kŗşhņa) became tireless apipāsa”. Then the Upanishad quotes two verses from the Rigveda Samhita namely (8.6.30) and (1.50.10), the famous mantra to the supreme God, the Divine Sun Sūrya. Here is the earliest mention of Sri Kŗşhņa. As Sri Aurobindo states, “it speaks of Kŗşhņa, son of Devaki, in a tone that would justify us in assuming that it regarded them not as ancient and far—off names but as men who had walked on earth in living memory." The above is just part of it only. Anyway I know how much you know and I have no further comments and I know others too will know of your standing. __________ Your comment: Barney, please stop looking at child pornography and beating up small children. Oh, what's that you say? You are innocent. Well you can't prove that. __________ Please do not make me laugh so loud. The saying goes "it take a fool to call others fool and also it takes a thief to call others thief" So, here you have proven indirectly that you are a child abuser and addicted to child pornography and that's more than enough for us to know your true colour. Thank you for showing us who you really are.

I have seen my previous post going on with arguments unrelated to the actual subject intented. A guest who has no name has said there are many like me who are ignorant. By what criterion he deduced this assumption is not known. Thinking that only those learnered in sanskrit are the most intellectual in Vedas and no others would be able to understand was his understanding. First and foremost he should know that sanskrit is not the only language one could comunicate with God. Tamil and other languages too are gate way to God's kingdom. Sanskrit scholars, however, refused to acknowledge the real merit of Tamil literary works. Although they were born in the Tamil country, spoke the Tamil language, and lived as Tamilians, they seldom read such important works as the Tevaram and the Tiruvaacakam. They treated lighty those who attained scholarship only in Tamil. Even the hymns of Nayanmars, which found a pride of place in temple rituals during the Chola period, lost their importance at a later stage. They went to the extent of denigrating Tamil as the language of the mortal and extolling Sanskrit as the language of gods. If the Sanskritists found laudable ideas in Tamil works, they tried to belittle their merit saying that those were borrowed ideas from Sanskrit works. They tried even to underrate the importance of Tiruvalluvar's Tirukkural by running it down as a compendium of ideas translated from Sanskrit works. Likewise they considered that Tolkaappiyam, the first grammatical work by Tolkappiyar was based on Sanskrit. To substantiate their view, they assigned the work of Tolkappiyar to Tiranatumakkini who was a scholar in Sanskrit. The Raamayanaa, Mahaabhaarata, Puraanas and other philosophical works were no doubt borrowed from Sanskrit but the Sanskrit scholars tried to camouflage the very existence of great literary works in Tamil like the Cankam classics, didactic and devotional literature. But their efforts were halted only when scholars like V.K. Curiyanaraayana Sastriar and Maraimalaiyatikal focussed the attention of the people on the literary treasures of the Tamil language. Vedas are the songs of sages who have expressed their experiences of God in Sanskrit. The Thevaram and Thiruvasagam songs are as important as the vedas and they express the same/similar things. However, unlike the vedas which were treated for thousands of years as intended for only the select few of the society, the Thevaram and Thiruvasagam songs were intended for everyone. Of the 4 saints who sang these, three were brahmins well versed in the vedas and sanskrit but chose to express their experience of God in the language of the common man. These were sung between 600 AD and 900 AD. thirumuRai: The works of 63 NAYANMARS(nayanars) and several other Siva devotees are collectively referred to as 'TIRUMURAI'. There are 12 volumes containing about 18,000 songs in Tamil. The first 7 thirumuRais are referred to as 'THEVARAM'. The 8th thirumurai is called 'THIRUVASAGAM'. The 10th is the 'THIRUMANDHIRAM'. The 12th is the 'PERIYA PURANAM' that describes the lives of the NAYANMARS. Periyalvar sings of Krishna in the aspect of a divine child, originating a new genre of celebrant poetry. Kulasekhara, a Chera prince, sings of both Rama and Krishna, identifying himself with several roles in the holy legends: a gopi in love with Krishna or his mother, Devaki, Krishna's mother who misses nursing him, or the exiled Rama's father, Dasaratha. Tiruppanalvar, an untouchable poet (panan), sang ten songs about the god in Srirangam: his eyes, mouth, chest, navel, his clothes, and feet. To these Bhaktas, God is not only love but beauty. His creation is his jewel; in separation he longs for union, as man longs for him. Tirumankaiyalvar, religious philosopher, probably guru (personal religious teacher and spiritual guide in Hinduism) to the Pallava kings, and poet of more than 1,000 verses, was apparently responsible for the building of many Vaishnava temples. The most celebrated author in Hindi is Tulsidas of Rajapur (died 1623), a Brahmin who renounced the world early in life and spent his days in Varanasi as a religious devotee. He wrote mostly in Awadhi, and focussed Hinduism on the worship of Rama. His most important work is the Ramcharitmanas ("Sacred Lake of the Acts of Rama"), which is based on the Sanskrit Ramayana. More than any other work it has become a Hindu sacred text for the Hindi-speaking area and annually has been staged in the popular Ram Lila festival. The most important Nayanars were Appar and Sambandar, in the seventh century, and Sundarar, in the eighth. Appar, a self-mortifying Jain ascetic before he became a Shaiva saint, sings of his conversion to a religion of love, surprised by the Lord stealing into his heart. After him, the term tevaram ("private worship") came to mean "hymn". Sambandar, too, wrote these personal, "bone-melting" songs for the common man. Sundarar, however, who sees a vision of 63 Tamil saints -- rich, poor, male, female, of every caste and trade, unified even with bird and beast in the love of God -- epitomizes bhakti. To him and other Bhaktas, every act is worship, every word God's name. Unlike the ascetics, they return man to the world of men, bringing hope, joy, and beauty into religion, and making worship an act of music. Their songs have become part of temple ritual. Further, in bhakti, erotic love (as seen in akam) in all its phases became a metaphor for man's love for God, the lover. God is not in Sanskrit alone but in all languages and in all forms. Wisdom comes from not knowing sanskrit alone but knowing thyself. Even a mute who does not speak or understand any language could become a devotee through silent prayers in the language of his heart. God is one who you imagine to be and not one whom you dictate to be. I came to this forum not to lead people inot argument but to unite Hindus and respect each others belief in the Supreme Being but here I see Krishna devotees only propagating Krishna as the supreme godhead without understanding the basic of religious tolerance among Hindus. It is shame and this paves the way for future generation to rethink about their roots and may consider changing their religion or become a free thinker. The bickering among the Hindus about who is supereme and who are demigods will surely lead to decline of Hinduism and its followers in the near future. Do not blame others for one's onw action. It's time for all of us to put on our thinking cap.

Sri vishnu sahasra namam - Slokam 71 - brahmanyah. Brahmanyo brahma-krt-brahma brahma brahma-vivardhanah | Brahma-vid brahmano brahmi brahma`jno brahamna-priyah || Om brahmanyaya namah Om brahma-krt-brahmane namah Om brahmane namah Om brahma-vivardhanaya namah Om brahma-vide namah Om brahmanaya namah Om brahmine namah Om brahma~jnaya namah Om brahamna-priyaya namah The word brahman or a derived word occurs in this Slokam repeatedly. It will be useful to have some basic understanding of this term before proceeding with the explanation of the nama-s. The word brahman is derived from the root brah, which means vastness, power, growth, etc. Anything that is big is covered under the term Brahma. The term can refer to penance, veda-s, brahman-s well-versed in scripture, wisdom, etc. - tapo vedasca viprasca, j~nanam ca brahma Sam~jnitam. The word brahman can also denote the Supreme Being, veda, prakrti, and the Atman (jiva). The last one is particularly used in the bhagavad Ramanuja school, because the jiva in its essential nature is unlimited in its power, and thus is brahma in nature. Any limitation it suffers Is temporary, and the limitation is only when the jiva is associated with a body. The Atman or self possesses the quality of "infinite extensiveness" as its true nature, even though it is conditioned by the limitations of the body when it is associated with a body. As a proper noun, the term brahma refers to the four-faced brahma, and of course, the word stands to denote bhagavan when it comes to the creation of the four-faced brahma. The different interpreters use one or more of the above meanings for the term brahman in their vyakhyana-s for the following nama-s. This is partly the source of the differences in the different anubhava-s. 667. Brahmanyah - a) He who is beneficial to all the big things both a-cetana and cetana, namely prakrti and Atman. B) He who is beneficial to Brahman, namely the veda, brahmans well-versed in scripture, penance, etc. Om brahmanyaya namah. In chapter 5.1 of panini's ashtadhyayi, sutra-s 4 to 7 deal with the affix yat, and indicate that the suffix means "good for that" under certain cases; specifically, sutra 5.1.7 - khala yava masha tila vrsha Brahmanah ca (yat) - states that the affix ya after brahman denotes "good for Brahman". Since bhagavan is the cause for the existence and enjoyment of prakrti and purusha, He is beneficial to them. Thus, sri bhattar's interpretation for this nama is that He is beneficial to the jiva and to prakrti, and so He is called brahmanyah. The vastness of prakrti, jiva, and paramatma (and thus all being Brahman) is nicely captured by nammazhvar in tiruvaumozhi 10.10.10 as referenced by sri v.v. Ramanujan: Suzhndu aganru Azhndu uyarnda mudivil perum pazheyo Suzhndu adanil peria para nan malarc codiyo Suzhndu adanil peria sudar j~nana inbameyo Suzhndu adanil peria ennava arac cuzhndaye. "Oh the antaratma of the mula prakrti, which evolves into mahat, Ahamkara, etc., which pervades all space, and is infinite! Oh the antaratma of the jivatma-s, who encircle, extend over, and are larger than, the prakrti in extant, whose j~nana is unlimited, and whose very nature is characterized by j~nana, Ananda, and tejas! Oh the unique possessor of samkalpa j~nana, which extends beyond the Above, and has its halo even beyond still further, which is pure Bliss in nature! My desire to join you is even larger than your samkalpa j~nana. But you have now enveloped me, and I am a drop in your vastness of nectar ocean. My long-time ambition is fulfilled". The first line above refers to the vastness of prakrti, the second refers to the vastness of the j~nana of the Atman, and the third line refers to His vastness. When the term Brahman refers to the Supreme Being, it is qualified by both cit and acit, or has both conscious and Unconscious entities as His body; when it refers to prakrti, it is qualified by only acit or insentiency; and when it refers to Atman, it is qualified by only cit or consciousness. B) sri Samkara interprets the term brahma in this nama as referring collectively to penance, veda-s, brahman-s well-versed in scripture, and wisdom - tapo vedasca viprasca, j~nanam ca brahma sam~jnitam, and gives the interpretation to the nama that because He is beneficent to them all, He is called brahmanyah. Sri radhakrshna sastri gives examples of this: bhagavan retrieved the veda-s from the asura by name Hayagriva in his matsya incarnation; He showed the path of penance in his nara-narayana incarnation; He gave us the knowledge of the veda-s Through His teaching of the gita; He takes several incarnations to protect the brahmana-s (vipra-s) in their times of distress. As examples of bhagavan being beneficent to the brahmana-s, Sri Krshna Datta bharadvaj gives the example of Lord krshna doing . puja for all the brahmana-s who came for the rajasuya yaga performed by Yudhisthira, and sri baladeva vidya bhushan gives the example of Lord Krshna retrieving the son of His guru from yama loka. Sri satyadevo vasishtha observes that He is called brahmanyah because he is big, and he makes his devotees big, by giving them all the things to enjoy, and by supporting them and protecting them. -dasan krshnamacaryan

Read about Bhagiratha's Tapas and what he acheived in order to get liberation for his kin folks.

OM IS SATCHIDANANDA. OM IS THE LIFE OF ALL LIVES. OM IS THE SOUL OF ALL SOULS. OM IS INFINITY AND IMMORTALITY. OM IS SOURCE OF EVERYTHING,THE WOMB OF THE VEDAS. OM, the most sacred syllable in the ancient Sanskrit language of India, considered in Hinduism to represent all scriptural revelation in a single symbol. In meditation, Hindus repeat OM as a mantra.Om is the basis of all sounds .It consists of three letters A, U and M which cover the whole range of sound vibrations.The larynx and palate are the sound boards.When you pronounce A, no part of the tongue or palate is touched .When you pronounce U the sound rolls from the very root of the end of the sounding board of the mouth.M is the last sound which is produced by closing the two lips. Therefore all sounds are contained in OM.All languages originate from OM.The essence of four Vedas is OM.He who chants OM mentally repeats the sacred books of the whole universe.OM is the source of all religions and scriptures.OM, AMEN and AHMIN are all one.They represent Brahman or truth,the one existence. OM represents all trinities. Every kind of trinity is represented by OM such as Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva ,Saraswati-Lakshmi-Durga, Past-Present-Future ,Birth-Life-Death ,Creation-Preserv ation-Destruction,Waking-Dreaming-Deep Sleep , Rajas-Satva-Tamas ,Body-Mind-Soul. Live and meditate on OM,rest peacefully in Om,sing OM rhythmatically,chant loudly,repeat mentally ,rely on OM, reflect on OM ,concentrate on OM.All desires will vanish and you will attain self realisation and highest knowledge. The Power of OM Chanting The sound is generated in navel and taken up very slowly to the opening or fontanelle on the top of the head with the closing sound M.The vibration set up by this word is very powerful .The chanting drives away all worldly thoughts and removes distractions. How to Chant OM The following are the steps for chanting OM correctly: Take a deep breath Hold the breath as long as you can comfortably Speak OM during a slow and long exhaling phase, until the breath is totally out. Pause and repeat the steps again and again. The sound of OM is to be produced in a non stop manner, by combining the sounds of A, U, and M, with the last sound (that of M), assuming a nasal tone when lips have closed after speaking A and U. The Sacred Syllable OM and the Hindu Trinity The syllable OM (also called pranava), th most sacred symbol in Hinduism, is associated with symbolism as well as mysticism. Volumes have been written in Sanskrit illustrating the significance of this mystic symbol. Although this symbol is mentioned in all the Upanishads and in all Hindu scriptures, it is especially elaborated upon in the Taittiriya, Chandogya, and Mundaka Upanishads. By its sound and form, OM symbolizes the infinite Brahman and the entire universe. In Sanskrit the sounds of letter A and U produce, when combined together, the sound equivalent of letter O. Thus the sound produced by the three letters A, U, and M. OM is also called the "four-element syllable." The letters A, U, and M are the three elements and the fourth element is the silence from which the sound of OM arises, and back into which it subsides. The sound produced by the letter A signifies all that is observed and perceived in the wakeful state of an individual, thus representing both the subject and the object, and all the experiences in the physical world. Therefore, and all the experiences in the physical world. Therefore, the letter A symbolizes the phenomenal world that contributes to our experiences in the universe. The silence, the fourth element of OM as stated above, represents the underlying Reality that pervades the waking, dream, and the deep sleep states of one's consciousness. Thus OM symbolizes the infinite Brahman, the essence of all existence. By its form OM also represents the unmanifest and the manifest, the noumenon (ground of phenomenon) and the phenomenon, and thus OM is an adequate symbol of God, the following passage of the Katha Upanishad: "The goal which all the Vedas declare, which all austerities aim at, and which humans desire when they lead the life of continence, I will tell you briefly: it is OM. This syllable OM is indeed Brahman. This syllable is the highest. Whosoever knows this syllable obtains all that he desires. This is the best support; this is the highest support. Whosoever knows this support is adored in the world of Brahman..." (Katha Upanishad I, ii, 15-17) The symbol of OM consists of three curves (curves 1, 2, and 3), one semicircle and a dot. The large lower curve symbolizes the waking state; the upper curve denotes deep sleep (or the unconscious) state, and the lower curve (which lies between deep sleep and the waking state) signifies the dream state. These three states of an individual's consciousness, and therefore the entire physical phenomenon, are represented by the three curves. The dot signifies the Absolute (fourth or Turiya state of consciousness), which illuminates the other three states. The semicircle symbolizes maya and separates the dot from the other three curves. The semicircle is open on the top, which means that the Absolute is infinite and is not affected by maya. Maya only effects the manifested phenomenon. In this way the form OM symbolizes the infinite Brahman and the entire universe. The sacred mantra Om Tat Sat is uttered by Hindus at the end of all prayers. Thus OM begins where all speech ends, the point where an individual's heart melts into divinity, and the unspeakable and inexpressible Reality is reached. Thus OM symbolizes the essence of all the scriptures. Hindu scriptures declare that OM is the storehouse of mystic power. When correctly uttered, OM brings into play the entire vocal mechanism of a human being. When OM is uttered according to Vedic injections, the throat generates the sound A by beginning the sound from the bottom of the spine (Kundalini) and thus using the entire depth of the human system in producing this sound. The sound U begins at the throat and ends at the tip of the tongue. The sound M is concentrated at the terminal end of the vocal system, the lips. According to Hindu scriptures, the sound of OM is the sound of creation, and this sound represents to our ears the sound of the cosmic energy of which all things are the pronunciation of OM. To have the highest experience in life is to hear the sound of OM in deep silence. Hindu scriptures tell us that the repetition of OM, in accordance with the Vedic methods, generates the mystic power that leads one's mind into deep concentration, meditation, and finally to samadhi, a state of higher consciousness. The mystic power of OM is confirmed by Lord Krishna Himself in the Bhagavad Gita: "Uttering the monosyllable OM, the eternal word of Brahman, One who departs leaving the body [at death], he attains the supreme goal." (BG 8.13) The Hindu Trinity The Hindu Trinity also called Trimurti (meaning three forms), is the representation of the three manifestations of the Supreme Reality, as Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. Each of these manifestations is associated with a specific cosmic function. Brahma symbolizes creation, Vishnu preservation and renewal, and Shiva dissolution or destruction necessary for recreation. It must be clearly understood that the members of the Hindu Trinity are not three different and independent gods, but three aspects of one Supreme Reality, called Brahman by seers of the Upanishads. Hindu Trinity = Three Faces of the Divine = Three Cosmic Functions of the Supreme Lord = Creation + Preservation + Dissolution = Generator + Operator + Destroyer = GOD

Questioning and asking for explanation are two different aspects of understanding the religion. I only see Muslims asking for explanation so here the Ullama can give is own opinion or interpretation and that would be taken as authentic by a student. Whereas in Hinduism we question and their answers need backing up otherwise we would not accept it. Morever in Hinduism we allow other bel;ievers to question but in Islam a non Muslims cannot question about Islams belief nor can he hold the quran. Only if he or she converts can one ask about Islam. So, where is the freedom of choice? It is a ristricted relgion than controls the followers freedom to question. I have been to Islam's websites and question the Ullama but he refused to answer saying I'm not a Muslim and if I pretend [which I did not] he would know from my line of questioning that I'm not a Muslim. I even gave my email for them to reply but no reply from them. From this we know what Islam is and why they refuse to have discussion with a non Muslim.

O Mother Durga! Rider on the lion! Giver of all strength! Mother, Beloved of Siva! We, born from Thy parts of Power, We the youth of India, are seated here in Thy Temple Listen, O Mother, descend upon earth! Make Thyself manifest in this land of India. O Mother Durga! From age to age, in life after life, We come down into the human body, To do Thy work and return to the Home of Delight. Now too we are born, dedicated to Thy work. Listen, O Mother, descend upon Earth, Come to our help! O Mother Durga! Rider on the lion! Trident in hand! Thy body of beauty armour-clad! Mother, O Giver of victory! India awaits Thee, Eager to see the gracious form of Thine. Listen, O Mother, descend upon earth, Make Thyself manifest in this land of India. O Mother Durga! Giver of force and love and knowledge, Terrible art thou in Thy own self of might, Mother beautiful and fierce. In the battle of life, in India's battle, We are warriors commissioned by Thee; O Mother! Give to our heart and mind a titan's strength, a titan's energy, To our soul and intelligence a God's character and knowledge. O Mother Durga! India, world's noblest race, lay whelmed in darkness. Mother, Thou risest on the eastern horizon, The dawn comes with the glow of Thy divine limbs scattering the darkness. Spread Thy light, Mother, destroy the darkness. O Mother Durga! We are Thy children, Through Thy grace, By Thy influence May we become fit for the great work, for the great Ideal. Mother, destroy our smallness, our selfishness, our fear. O Mother Durga! Thou art Kali, Naked, garlanded with human heads, Sword in hand, thou slayest the Asura. Goddess, do thou slay with Thy pitiless cry the enemies who dwell within us, May none remain alive there, not one. May we become pure and spotless, This is our prayer. O Mother, make Thyself manifest. O Mother Durga! India lies now in selfishness and fearfulness and littleness. Make us great, make our efforts great, our hearts vast, Make us true to our resolve. May we no longer desire the small, void of energy, Given to laziness, stricken with fear. O Mother Durga! Extend wide the power of Yoga. We are Thy Aryan children, Develop in us again The lost teaching, Character, Strength of intelligence, Faith and devotion, Force of austerity, Power of chastity and true knowledge, Bestow all that upon the world. To help mankind, Appear, O Mother of the world, dispel all ills. O Mother Durga! Slay the enemy within, then root out all obstacles outside. May the noble heroic mighty Indian race, Supreme in love and unity, Truth and strength, Arts and letters, Force and knowledge Ever dwell in its holy woodlands, Its fertile fields under its sky-scraping hills, Along the banks of its pure-streaming rivers. This is our prayer at the feet of the Mother. Make Thyself manifest. O Mother Durga! Enter our bodies in Thy Yogic strength. We shall become Thy instruments, Thy sword slaying all evil, Thy lamp dispelling all ignorance. Fulfil this yearning of Thy young children, O Mother! Be the master and drive the instrument, Wield Thy sword and slay the evil, Hold up the lamp and spread the light of knowledge. Make Thyself manifest. O Mother Durga! When we possess thee, We shall no longer cast thee away; We shall bind thee to us with the tie of love and devotion. Come, O Mother, Manifest in our mind and life and body. Come, O Revealer of the hero-path! We shall no longer cast Thee away. May our entire life become a ceaseless worship of the Mother, All our acts a continuous service to the Mother, Full of love, full of energy. This is our prayer, Mother, descend upon earth, Make Thyself manifest in this land of India.

Which other religion teaches jihad? Suicide bombing is only thought is Islam. Can any of the any of the Muslims count the number of innocent people killed by these barbarians? Where else in the world could one see hatred being preached in temples? Only in Islan hatred is being preached in mosques around the world. Can Muslim women freely walk along with non mulims in ny Islamic countries? Why must the muslims reminded in loud speakers [The Azan is uttered in a loud] calling Muslims to pray? Doesn't a true Muslim knows his time to pray? Other religions do not display or call [demand]its followers to pray. Folloers of every other religions know by heart their time for prayers and if they neglect it is between them and God but in Islam it compels one to do so for fear that he might one day transgress [murtad]. This religion is in constant fear that its followers might leave the religion and so strict syria laws were formulated such as fatwa calling for killing of any Muslims who transgress[murtad] and many other drastic laws which puts a mulsim in fear of leaving his or her faith in Islam. I can never agree that Islam is a religion of peace for it is my personal experience with Muslims who are quick at turning into violent when question about their belief. It is like as though they have been brainwashed to defend their religion at any cause. There is no reasoning with them. It is always I am right and you are wrong. A Hindu, Christian or Buddhist is free to mix with each other but a Muslim is always reluctant for fear the discussion of his religion might crop up. Such attitude is bad in any society be it a an Indian, European or American. We are people of the world and should not fear each other as we are all human and not some aliens from another planet. Customs, traditions, language and belief may differ but we are still the same human being with feelings and love so how could we see each other as enemies. The only reason that divides us is the religion and if we could put aside our belief and be a real human there would be eternal peace on earth. Even animals of various species live togather in the same jungle. Only when hungry do they seek one another and that is their nature but we humans have different qualites than animals because we ahve learned the language of communication and understanding and yet we cannot see eye to eye. We are worst than animals and this especially is refered to Muslims who have transmuted into animalism. If they do not revert into humanism this world would only see rivers of blood. God! help us.

Since there are too many unregisrered guest here I mistook you to be the same. Please forgive me. I have to look for the url and will get back to you son. I hope you will register and use you member ID so that there would be no confusion.

In this kali yug even you own mother can be accused of adultry. Its people who accept when they want you and discard you when the do not have use for you. Even if God comes down today in his own form the are those who would say the devil has taken the form of God to ellude believers. So, do not tell me about sexual molestation. Rumour is a great traveller ones he starts his journy no one can stop him. Do you know how many innocent people have been accused of crimes they did not commit and do you know how many innocent victims are serving prison terms for crimes they did not commit? Think and think hard.

You said: On the contrary, it is precisely those who choose to learn the Vedas through translations who almost invariably have the most difficulty understanding them. Though it is often the case that many, like yourself, think they know what they are talking about, in just about all cases they do not. __________ Excuse me, all one needs in life is to know the basic of his religion in order to understand and live by it as possible. I'm not aiming for a Phd here to master the whole scripture nor am do I need to converse in sanskrit to communicate with others. So, your idea does not fit the subject. __________ You said: One cannot evaluate the authenticity of a translation without knowing the original language first. It is indeed the height of stupidity to arbitrarily choose any one "translation" as accurate, when one does not know the language from which it is translated. __________ Are you trying to say that those eminent sanskrit scholars who had translated the vedas into English are stupid while you are the most scholarly person of all the others. Are you telling me that their translation is not authentic? So, only you and your guru are the genuine scholars? __________ You said: All you can do is spam-mail one posting after another, with the goal of making yourself seem more knowledgeable than you actually are to an audience of people who are just as ignorant as you. __________ So, you think the rest of us here are ignorant while you are the most intelligent? If you want to blow you trumpet by all means be my guest but not in this forum. Go blow you trumpet on a no man's island. I know you do not have what it takes to be a mindful person and we excuse you for that. __________ You said: History here has shown that just about every one of your "Vedic" theories has been successfully put to the sword, with your only response being a whiny complaint that anyone who disagrees with you is a fanatic or some such thing. The bottom line is that you do not know the Vedas, are completely unprepared when what they say contradicts what you believe them to say, and that your only defense is a feeble character attack against anyone who disagrees with your Afro-hair baba. __________ Here again it shows your clear prejudicial attack against someone whom you dislike. I need not have to proof my aquired knowledge in the vedas nor any other scriptures. This is a forum for Hinduism and all are free to post their comments and arguments. You said you piece and let me say mine. You are not worth 2 cent for me to proof or argue with. Your character is shown in your writing and you are nothing compared to others here. Sai Baba has millions of followers and you cannot do anything about that coz compared to him, you are just dust under his feet which only need dusting away.

Some years ago I came across a book that explains the Supreme Energy as Sakthi [ power when translated becomes SHE]. Without the SHE there is nothing and a good example is we human being. It's woman that bears a new life in a womb. Whithout her there would be no place for new life on earth. I think the whole system was changed because of male dominance. I too strongly believe that the whole universe was created by this power called Sakthi from whom came the the moorthies Brhma, Vishnu and Shiva. I believe that this ancient scripture was either destroyed or hidden by those who are against such pratice. I think it is time we do some soul searching.